Is this obscene

[Mr JP Fugley]

David Beckham's new deal to join The LA Galaxy is reputed to be worth around quarter of a billion dollars.


The Galaxy, citing industry experts, said Beckham's deal is worth more than $250 million in salary and commercial endorsements and is "thought to be the biggest in sporting history."

Now I'm all for a chap making a decent living, however that seems to have gone a wee bit over the top.

Is it right that someone should be paid that sum of money for playing soccer (or anything for that matter) and for their ability to advertise stuff. It seems obscene to me. You could invade a small country with that kind of cash.

[Barbarossa]

The wages for players at the top level is pretty obscene anyway, imho.

However, I don't blame the chap if people are prepared to pay him that sort of money. I'd probably do the same in his position.

They must view it as some kind of investment, and they're going to make a profit from the "beckham" brand in return, from marketing and merchandise.

So in the end, it's the fans who are obscene, for letting this sort of thing go on :unsure:

[j2k4]

Granting, as I must, that whatever one can arrange as compensation for demonstrating whatever talent one possesses is just, and therefore ruling out such descriptives as "obscene", I must also comment that such remuneration is absurd.

[Mr JP Fugley]

I realise that the MSL expect, or hope, to get more out of him than he's getting. It's probably their big push to make soccer a major sport in the USA by using his obvious sellability. Let's be honest he's past his best as a footballer, has been for a wee while imo. So him going there is more to draw the crowd and try to entice new fans. He was more of a commercial success than a sporting one in Spain. Opened up whole new markets for them in Japan etc where he is close to a demi-god.

However, even if we accept that it's purely a commercial thing, on both sides. What we are left with is a fella getting $250,000,000 for playing soccer and getting his photograph taken. To me it speaks volumes for the World in which we live.

[bigboab]

When you consider that he could not get in the Real Madrid team, yes it is obscene.

[Mr JP Fugley]

When you consider that he could not get in the Real Madrid team, yes it is obscene.

Apparently he was offered another two years tho'. Which kind of goes to show why he's there. Play him just enough to justify still calling him a player seems to have been their tactic recently.

[j2k4]

To me it speaks volumes for the World in which we live.

Indeed.

[bigboab]

When you consider that he could not get in the Real Madrid team, yes it is obscene.

Apparently he was offered another two years tho'. Which kind of goes to show why he's there. Play him just enough to justify still calling him a player seems to have been their tactic recently.

I think it was because of shirt sales.:whistling

[ahctlucabbuS]

Somehow I can't stop to think that the Mrs. had osmething to do with this.

[bigboab]

Somehow I can't stop to think that the Mrs. had osmething to do with this.

Is she an agent, your Mrs?:)

[Mr JP Fugley]

Somehow I can't stop to think that the Mrs. had osmething to do with this.

It has been reported that she was keen on the move to L.A. It does seem like her natural habitat.

The $250,000,000 was probably the factor which swayed him.

[vidcc]

If he can get that sort of money then good luck to him. However I have heard many sports fans complaining about such high salaries and the fact that their tickets cost $xxxx or the pay to view cost $xxxx. Yet they still pay.
It just seems to me the willingness to pay such prices is partly the reason why players can make so much money.

[Busyman™]

I doubt the 250 mil is straight salary. There has got to be some typa endorsements or somethin tied into it.

Soccer just doesn't make that enough money over here to justify 50 mil a year to one person past his prime.

Hell I doubt it'll ever overtake basketball or football in America.

[Ava Estelle]

Good luck to him, he's worth every cent.

A quarter billion spent on Beckham is a quarter billion not being spent on blowing up innocent civilians or financing Israeli death squads.

[Busyman™]

Good luck to him, he's worth every cent.

A quarter billion spent on Beckham is a quarter billion not being spent on blowing up innocent civilians or financing Israeli death squads.

Damn I didn't know the LA Galaxy did all a dat, Billy1234.:unsure:

Oh well I guess there's still room for Arab terrorists.

Beckham is worth shit. Even if the LA Galaxy win a championship everytime during his 5-year contract, he isn't worth it.

[Ava Estelle]

Beckham is worth shit. Even if the LA Galaxy win a championship everytime during his 5-year contract, he isn't worth it.

Oh dear, diddums get upset over his creator bullshit?

[Busyman™]

Beckham is worth shit. Even if the LA Galaxy win a championship everytime during his 5-year contract, he isn't worth it.

Oh dear, diddums get upset over his creator bullshit?

Eh? Do you know what thread you are in?:huh:

You made a remark about David Beckham in relation to bombing innocents.

Now you're on about creators, wtf?

Billy get some sleep....really.

[Mr JP Fugley]

I doubt the 250 mil is straight salary. There has got to be some typa endorsements or somethin tied into it.

Soccer just doesn't make that enough money over here to justify 50 mil a year to one person past his prime.

Hell I doubt it'll ever overtake basketball or football in America.

You didn't even bother reading the first post, which I deliberately made as short as possible.

Here are the first few lines.


David Beckham's new deal to join The LA Galaxy is reputed to be worth around quarter of a billion dollars.


The Galaxy, citing industry experts, said Beckham's deal is worth more than $250 million in salary and commercial endorsements and is "thought to be the biggest in sporting history."

Do you see why people think you don't actually read what othe people write.

[manker]

Beckham is worth shit. Even if the LA Galaxy win a championship everytime during his 5-year contract, he isn't worth it.:lol: You think it's about winning the MLS - I'm quite sure that winning the MLS, altho' kinda desirable, is of little moment to the financiers of this deal.

The thinking behind it is that Beckham, beause of who he is, can have a greater impact on football in America than any single athlete in any sport has before. They want Beckham to kickstart a process which will enable the LA Galaxy to be huge, they want that to make the MLS huge, which in turn will make football in America huge.

This will bring in megabucks from the domestic and worldwide market that will dwarf the 1/4 of a billion paid to Becks. That's the theory, anyway.

Of course, apathy toward football amongst the American people may preside and the financiers may not have factored in the jealousy factor from patriotic dumbfucks who will begrudge Beckham the money purely because he's earning more money from sport in America than any American ever has, or could hope to.

I don't know whether there's anyone like that on this forum.

[Ava Estelle]

Apparently, according to reports, he'll be only the second highest paid sportsman in the US, I'm guessing Tiger Woods would be number one, but I wouldn't put money on it.

Another interesting statistic is the average gate for LA Galaxy, 20,000. For a 'nothing' game that's quite a gate, there's plenty of British teams would like those figures.

[manker]

Now I'm all for a chap making a decent living, however that seems to have gone a wee bit over the top.

Is it right that someone should be paid that sum of money for playing soccer (or anything for that matter) and for their ability to advertise stuff. It seems obscene to me. You could invade a small country with that kind of cash.Well, if it makes you feel any better, with all that tax he'll be paying, I'm sure at least part of this money will be going toward invading a small country at some point.

===

It's a lot of money for a bloke to be paid for smiling and kicking a ball for sure but I'm not sure 'obscene' is the word I'd use. There is simply no-one else in the world that could fit this job description.

The people who are paying him expect to reap a greater financial reward than they are laying out for the Beckham product, so I think of it purely in those terms.

[manker]

Apparently, according to reports, he'll be only the second highest paid sportsman in the US, I'm guessing Tiger Woods would be number one, but I wouldn't put money on it.Doh, well that's what I get for being presumptuous. Thinking about it, Tiger's just finished designing and building a course in Dubai, so I guess that gets factored in.


Another interesting statistic is the average gate for LA Galaxy, 20,000. For a 'nothing' game that's quite a gate, there's plenty of British teams would like those figures.Indeed. I imagine their stadium is huge too so that's likely to be at least doubled now.

[wolfy1]

beckham going to the U.S to play out his career just shows he's in it for the money,fair play to him cus he's crap anyway

[Ava Estelle]

beckham going to the U.S to play out his career just shows he's in it for the money,fair play to him cus he's crap anyway

Did you take a wrong turn on the way to the lounge?

[j2k4]

:lol: You think it's about winning the MLS - I'm quite sure that winning the MLS, altho' kinda desirable, is of little moment to the financiers of this deal.

The thinking behind it is that Beckham, beause of who he is, can have a greater impact on football in America than any single athlete in any sport has before. They want Beckham to kickstart a process which will enable the LA Galaxy to be huge, they want that to make the MLS huge, which in turn will make football in America huge.



This has been tried before, BTW.

Another fellow past his prime, went by the name of Pele.

[manker]

:lol: You think it's about winning the MLS - I'm quite sure that winning the MLS, altho' kinda desirable, is of little moment to the financiers of this deal.

The thinking behind it is that Beckham, beause of who he is, can have a greater impact on football in America than any single athlete in any sport has before. They want Beckham to kickstart a process which will enable the LA Galaxy to be huge, they want that to make the MLS huge, which in turn will make football in America huge.



This has been tried before, BTW.

Another fellow past his prime, went by the name of Pele.:O :o

It has?

Surely someone should have informed the brokers of this deal that there can't possibly be any point in having another crack. Quite obviously they don't have a clue what they're doing and they're just throwing good money after bad.

Fie on them.

[Ava Estelle]

This has been tried before, BTW.

Another fellow past his prime, went by the name of Pele.

Totally different.

There is far more to Beckham than there ever was to Pele, and I'm not talking about football.

AEG, one of the chief financiers here, are also backers of the Beckham Football Academies which will become huge earners over the coming years.

[manker]

Another interesting statistic is the average gate for LA Galaxy, 20,000. For a 'nothing' game that's quite a gate, there's plenty of British teams would like those figures.Indeed. I imagine their stadium is huge too so that's likely to be at least doubled now.Wrong again :dabs:

Just reading an article now and their stadium only holds 27,000.

[Ava Estelle]

The Home Depot Center is the soccer training headquarters for the United States Soccer Federation Men's and Women's National Teams, as well as the David Beckham Academy for youth ages 8 to 15.

Plenty of room to expand though, look at the plan, the highest level is only on one side.

http://web.mlsnet.com/t106/stadium/

[manker]

The Home Depot Center is the soccer training headquarters for the United States Soccer Federation Men's and Women's National Teams, as well as the David Beckham Academy for youth ages 8 to 15.

Plenty of room to expand though, look at the plan, the highest level is only on one side.

http://web.mlsnet.com/t106/stadium/Yup, yup. I wonder if theyll do that tho'. It would be another massive outlay if stadium improvement building contractors are anything like they are over here.

Maybe it would be more cost effective to stay there in the short term - with ticket price hikes - and eventually ground share at the Coliseum, if demand justified it and so long as it's possible.

[100%]

Question
How long is a pro players life - 10 years?
if lucky they made enough to chill afterwards
if not then maybe coaching, sports commentator etc is an option.
but for all those players that are not on the front pages what are they living off of? Is it enough?
remember the little people

[Chip Monk]

I realise that the turnouts are OK, however I am given to understand that the prices are not that high. This may be pish, it's just something I heard.

From what I heard on t'radio, of the $50,000,000 a year the team will pay around $10,000,000 with the rest coming from endorsements. I suppose these are already in place else it would be pretty pointless to quote the figures.

I realise that this is a business thing and that the team and sponsors expect to make back vastly more than Beckam is making. However, accountancy aside, I still think it's obscene that a man gets paid that amount of money, basically for playing football and getting his phoatie taken. FFS the phoatie part is the more important.

Oh and anyone who says he's shite knows fuck all about the game. He would get a game with most teams in the World. Fact.

[Ava Estelle]

However much he gets it's a pittance compared to the Bill Gates' and Warren Buffets of this world.

Have a look at this (http://www.yachtcrew-cv.com/paulallen.htm), currently moored in Cairns, it belongs to Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, you need more money that Beckham has to own and run one of these!

[Chip Monk]

Didn't Paul Allen actually buy an NBA franchise at one time as well.

And also a mountain in Aspen.

Again both of these things could be pish.

[manker]

Question
How long is a pro players life - 10 years?
if lucky they made enough to chill afterwards
if not then maybe coaching, sports commentator etc is an option.
but for all those players that are not on the front pages what are they living off of? Is it enough?
remember the little peopleIt's interesting to note that strict salary caps were in place in the MLS up to a few days ago. These were side-stepped in order to make this possible.

Only one player earned more than $1m per year and most of Beckham's team mates will be on around $80,000 per year - that's slightly over half of what Beckham will be getting per day.

[Chip Monk]

Question
How long is a pro players life - 10 years?
if lucky they made enough to chill afterwards
if not then maybe coaching, sports commentator etc is an option.
but for all those players that are not on the front pages what are they living off of? Is it enough?
remember the little peopleIt's interesting to note that strict salary caps were in place in the MLS up to a few days ago. These were side-stepped in order to make this possible.

Only one player earned more than $1m per year and most of Beckham's team mates will be on around $80,000 per year - that's slightly over half of what Beckham will be getting per day.

That's obscene.

[Ava Estelle]

That's obscene.

Bad choice of word there .. it's business, no-one would offer that money if they weren't sure they would earn even more for themselves.

CEOs who bring companies to the brink of disaster and then pick up millions in compensation when they get the sack is obscene.

[manker]

... most of Beckham's team mates will be on around $80,000 per year - that's slightly over half of what Beckham will be getting per day.

That's obscene.Well, most of them are merkin footie players :unsure:

In any case, any notion of obscenity regarding what Beckham will receive for doing stuff pales in comparison with what Sven Goran Eriksson is currently getting from the English FA for doing FA.

Mind, his wages for not managing England anymore have been slashed in hardline measures instigated by Brian Barwick -- instead of receiving £13000, he now only gets £6500 per day.

Now that's obscene.

[Busyman™]

Beckham is worth shit. Even if the LA Galaxy win a championship everytime during his 5-year contract, he isn't worth it.:lol: You think it's about winning the MLS - I'm quite sure that winning the MLS, altho' kinda desirable, is of little moment to the financiers of this deal.

The thinking behind it is that Beckham, beause of who he is, can have a greater impact on football in America than any single athlete in any sport has before. They want Beckham to kickstart a process which will enable the LA Galaxy to be huge, they want that to make the MLS huge, which in turn will make football in America huge.

This will bring in megabucks from the domestic and worldwide market that will dwarf the 1/4 of a billion paid to Becks. That's the theory, anyway.

Of course, apathy toward football amongst the American people may preside and the financiers may not have factored in the jealousy factor from patriotic dumbfucks who will begrudge Beckham the money purely because he's earning more money from sport in America than any American ever has, or could hope to.

I don't know whether there's anyone like that on this forum.

Americans don't care if it's foreign player or not. We care if the player is good.

Dirk Nowitzki is a German and many thought he should have won the MVP last year in the NBA.

However, soccer just doesn't get it over here and even with Beckham, it still won't get it. It's not a hope, it's an observation. We barely tuned into the World Cup.

I thought it odd that DC United was trying to build a huge soccer stadium in DC for the same reasons and many thought the same about the new Nationals stadium.

Besides that, if the 250 mil is over 5 years and includes endorsements that doesn't surprise me at all. It would have been surprising if it was all LA Galaxy salary since soccer does shit over here in comparison to other sports.

Regarding your phrase in bold, I totally agree. He can due to soccer being so unpopular. American marketers are probably the most resourceful ever but this will be a tough nut to crack. There will probably commercial after commercial and many news bits to push Beckham and soccer in Americas face.

Ultimately though, cracking basketball and football will prove too hard. Americans view soccer as much too boring in comparison and sitting through an entire match will be like watching snails fuck.

Mmmk, Roderick?

[Barbarossa]

Reproduction
All land snails are hermaphrodites, producing both spermatozoa and ova. Others, such as Apple Snails, are either male or female. Prolific breeders, snails inseminate each other in pairs to internally fertilize their ova. Each brood may consist of up to 100 eggs.

Sounds quite interesting :smilie4:

[Busyman™]

beckham going to the U.S to play out his career just shows he's in it for the money,fair play to him cus he's crap anyway

Did you take a wrong turn on the way to the lounge?

What's wrong with his statement?

[manker]

:lol: You think it's about winning the MLS - I'm quite sure that winning the MLS, altho' kinda desirable, is of little moment to the financiers of this deal.

The thinking behind it is that Beckham, beause of who he is, can have a greater impact on football in America than any single athlete in any sport has before. They want Beckham to kickstart a process which will enable the LA Galaxy to be huge, they want that to make the MLS huge, which in turn will make football in America huge.

This will bring in megabucks from the domestic and worldwide market that will dwarf the 1/4 of a billion paid to Becks. That's the theory, anyway.

Of course, apathy toward football amongst the American people may preside and the financiers may not have factored in the jealousy factor from patriotic dumbfucks who will begrudge Beckham the money purely because he's earning more money from sport in America than any American ever has, or could hope to.

I don't know whether there's anyone like that on this forum.

Americans don't care if it's foreign player or not. We care if the player is good.

Dirk Nowitzki is a German and many thought he should have won the MVP last year in the NBA.

However, soccer just doesn't get it over here and even with Beckham, it still won't get it. It's not a hope, it's an observation. We barely tuned into the World Cup.

I thought it odd that DC United was trying to build a huge soccer stadium in DC for the same reasons and many thought the same about the new Nationals stadium.

Besides that, if the 250 mil is over 5 years and includes endorsements that doesn't surprise me at all. It would have been surprising if it was all LA Galaxy salary since soccer does shit over here in comparison to other sports.

Regarding your phrase in bold, I totally agree. He can due to soccer being so unpopular. American marketers are probably the most resourceful ever but this will be a tough nut to crack. There will probably commercial after commercial and many news bits to push Beckham and soccer in Americas face.

Ultimately though, cracking basketball and football will prove too hard. Americans view soccer as much too boring in comparison and sitting through an entire match will be like watching snails fuck.

Mmmk, Roderick?You say footie is too boring - yet you also mention baseball. You've said before that you find watching a game of baseball boring. Yet it caught on.

I see that you're opinion is that soccer won't take over there but it appears that your opinion isn't shared by the people who have actually put their money where their mouth is - rather than merely talking shite on a mesage board.

I'm more inclined to think they have it right, rather than take on board your 'I think soccer is boring so every other American prolly does as well' point of view.

Beckham, an Englishman, might just have the drive and appeal to galvanise the US into a team which could seriously challenge for the World cup in twelve years time. He's certainly putting his heart and soul into it, as evinced by his academy.

I think America should be grateful.

[Busyman™]

Americans don't care if it's foreign player or not. We care if the player is good.

Dirk Nowitzki is a German and many thought he should have won the MVP last year in the NBA.

However, soccer just doesn't get it over here and even with Beckham, it still won't get it. It's not a hope, it's an observation. We barely tuned into the World Cup.

I thought it odd that DC United was trying to build a huge soccer stadium in DC for the same reasons and many thought the same about the new Nationals stadium.

Besides that, if the 250 mil is over 5 years and includes endorsements that doesn't surprise me at all. It would have been surprising if it was all LA Galaxy salary since soccer does shit over here in comparison to other sports.

Regarding your phrase in bold, I totally agree. He can due to soccer being so unpopular. American marketers are probably the most resourceful ever but this will be a tough nut to crack. There will probably commercial after commercial and many news bits to push Beckham and soccer in Americas face.

Ultimately though, cracking basketball and football will prove too hard. Americans view soccer as much too boring in comparison and sitting through an entire match will be like watching snails fuck.

Mmmk, Roderick?You say footie is too boring - yet you also mention baseball. You've said before that you find watching a game of baseball boring. Yet it caught on.

I see that you're opinion is that soccer won't take over there but it appears that your opinion isn't shared by the people who have actually put their money where their mouth is - rather than merely talking shite on a mesage board.

I'm more inclined to think they have it right, rather than take on board your 'I think soccer is boring so every other American prolly does as well' point of view.

Beckham, an Englishman, might just have the drive and appeal to galvanise the US into a team which could seriously challenge for the World cup in twelve years time. He's certainly putting his heart and soul into it, as evinced by his academy.

I think America should be grateful.

Okay there are people that think shuffleboard and curling are the shit. So what? Baseball is also the oldest of our big three. Notice also that it is the last of the big three in popularity.

How is it that I'm talking shit when I point out something? Baseball is having a hard time in many areas as well, Rodman. I'm actually hoping that the Nationals stadium and a DC United stadium are successful. I like the fact that I'll be able to go to pro soccer, football, baseball, hockey and basketball matches by just going down the road (or on the subway).

It'll be a nice change of pace.:)

Looking at the Beckham deal, American marketers mentioned his salary plus endorsements as one deal for hype purposes which was smart. However, when it comes down to it, besides Beckham getting something out it, soccer won't put a decent gain up against NFL football where average attendence is about 70,000 (the Washington Redskins was close to 90,000 even with the ticket hikes), the NBA with and average of about 17,000 across 40 games and the MLB with about 30,000.

It's just too tough a nut to crack.

Oh I'm sure that LA is grateful the Beckham put a soccer academy there.:crazy:

[manker]

You say footie is too boring - yet you also mention baseball. You've said before that you find watching a game of baseball boring. Yet it caught on.

I see that you're opinion is that soccer won't take over there but it appears that your opinion isn't shared by the people who have actually put their money where their mouth is - rather than merely talking shite on a mesage board.

I'm more inclined to think they have it right, rather than take on board your 'I think soccer is boring so every other American prolly does as well' point of view.

Beckham, an Englishman, might just have the drive and appeal to galvanise the US into a team which could seriously challenge for the World cup in twelve years time. He's certainly putting his heart and soul into it, as evinced by his academy.

I think America should be grateful.

Okay there are people that think shuffleboard and curling are the shit. So what? Baseball is also the oldest of our big three. Notice also that it is the last of the big three in popularity.

How is it that I'm talking shit when I point out something? Baseball is having a hard time in many areas as well, Rodman. I'm actually hoping that the Nationals stadium and a DC United stadium are successful. I like the fact that I'll be able to go to pro soccer, football, baseball, hockey and basketball matches by just going down the road (or on the subway).

It'll be a nice change of pace.:)

Looking at the Beckham deal, American marketers mentioned his salary plus endorsements as one deal for hype purposes which was smart. However, when it comes down to it, besides Beckham getting something out it, soccer won't put a decent gain up against NFL football where average attendence is about 70,000 (the Washington Redskins was close to 90,000 even with the ticket hikes), the NBA with and average of about 17,000 across 40 games and the MLB with about 30,000.

It's just too tough a nut to crack.

Oh I'm sure that LA is grateful the Beckham put a soccer academy there.:crazy:
I'm not saying that you're talking shit, I said that you're talking shite on a message board (in stark contrast with people who put up cash money), which is different. I often say that I post pish - but, of course, I don't mean that the content of my posts is akin to urine.

'Shite' and 'pish' are inter-changable with 'stuff' in this context.

I do see that your opinion is based on your own view that you're a stereotypical US sports fan who wants high scores and a win/lose outcome every time - but I think times are changing and with the right marketing approach, you'll discover that American kids are just the same as kids everywhere else.

They'll grow to love football if they are exposed to it as much as kids everywhere else.

We won't know who is right and who is wrong for another ten years, mind :dabs:

[Busyman™]

Okay there are people that think shuffleboard and curling are the shit. So what? Baseball is also the oldest of our big three. Notice also that it is the last of the big three in popularity.

How is it that I'm talking shit when I point out something? Baseball is having a hard time in many areas as well, Rodman. I'm actually hoping that the Nationals stadium and a DC United stadium are successful. I like the fact that I'll be able to go to pro soccer, football, baseball, hockey and basketball matches by just going down the road (or on the subway).

It'll be a nice change of pace.:)

Looking at the Beckham deal, American marketers mentioned his salary plus endorsements as one deal for hype purposes which was smart. However, when it comes down to it, besides Beckham getting something out it, soccer won't put a decent gain up against NFL football where average attendence is about 70,000 (the Washington Redskins was close to 90,000 even with the ticket hikes), the NBA with and average of about 17,000 across 40 games and the MLB with about 30,000.

It's just too tough a nut to crack.

Oh I'm sure that LA is grateful the Beckham put a soccer academy there.:crazy:
I'm not saying that you're talking shit, I said that you're talking shite on a message board (in stark contrast with people who put up cash money), which is different. I often say that I post pish - but, of course, I don't mean that the content of my posts is akin to urine.

'Shite' and 'pish' are inter-changable with 'stuff' in this context.

I do see that your opinion is based on your own view that you're a stereotypical US sports fan who wants high scores and a win/lose outcome every time - but I think times are changing and with the right marketing approach, you'll discover that American kids are just the same as kids everywhere else.

They'll grow to love football if they are exposed to it as much as kids everywhere else.

We won't know who is right and who is wrong for another ten years, mind :dabs:
I agree the marketing has to be there. However, there are a number of things going against the MLS.

1. The season starts during basketball season. In fact it's at the end of basketball season when it heats up and then the playoffs.

2. It goes up against the start of baseball.

3. It goes up against summertime which is dreadful for any sport over here. We are busy with travel and all the kids are outta school.

4. It goes up against the beginning of football season.

Hell I remember the tagline at the end of our World Series in baseball.

"Hey guess what everyone? The Cardinals won the World Series."

The problem is that although soccer is the most popular sport in the world I don't think other countries have that many dominate sports.

Hell our college basketball and football seasons are killer.

Over here there is so much different shit to choose from that soccer would have to supplant another sport in popularity. Hmmmm hockey........

Btw, after the lockout, hockey changed their rules to provide more scoring therefore skewing the record books. I wonder if the MLS will get desperate enough to do something like that. Perhaps a bigger goal?:no:

Oh fuck I forgot one of the biggest killers of them all.

Lack of commercials. We are a market driven country. Marketers pay the cost, tv watchers benefit.

[Mr JP Fugley]

That's obscene.

Bad choice of word there .. it's business, no-one would offer that money if they weren't sure they would earn even more for themselves.

CEOs who bring companies to the brink of disaster and then pick up millions in compensation when they get the sack is obscene.

What are you talking about. He was replying to manker's post which was in relation to the relative wages of the player's. In which manker pointed out that Beckham would be earning about twice as much a day as most of them earned a year.

[j2k4]

This has been tried before, BTW.

Another fellow past his prime, went by the name of Pele.

Totally different.

There is far more to Beckham than there ever was to Pele, and I'm not talking about football.

AEG, one of the chief financiers here, are also backers of the Beckham Football Academies which will become huge earners over the coming years.

It is not totally different.

In each case, a foreign player is imported with the intent/hope of improving the game's lot in the U.S.

They certainly aren't bringing him along purely because they can't imagine another investment for their money...I'm quite sure they feel Beckham offers the best chance to popularize the game here.

In any case, considering it's already been tried, Beckham is merely the second candidate for the task, albeit one more suited to play all of the endorsement angles as well, and there is definite merit in his personal efforts through his academy.

I would imagine he'll make a bit of a splash, given his wife (a small property, in the overall scheme of things) and his appeal to women.

I don't see a huge "gold-rush" over your game, though, sorry.

I actually wish it were otherwise, believe it or not.

[Busyman™]

Totally different.

There is far more to Beckham than there ever was to Pele, and I'm not talking about football.

AEG, one of the chief financiers here, are also backers of the Beckham Football Academies which will become huge earners over the coming years.

It is not totally different.

In each case, a foreign player is imported with the intent/hope of improving the game's lot in the U.S.

They certainly aren't bringing him along purely because they can't imagine another investment for their money...I'm quite sure they feel Beckham offers the best chance to popularize the game here.

In any case, considering it's already been tried, Beckham is merely the second candidate for the task, albeit one more suited to play all of the endorsement angles as well, and there is definite merit in his personal efforts through his academy.

I would imagine he'll make a bit of a splash, given his wife (a small property, in the overall scheme of things) and his appeal to women.

I don't see a huge "gold-rush" over your game, though, sorry.

I actually wish it were otherwise, believe it or not.

Hell yes. It would mean that the plans for the stadium in DC would be a no-brainer since it would then be viable.

Right now it's up in the air.

[Ava Estelle]

However, when it comes down to it, besides Beckham getting something out it, soccer won't put a decent gain up against NFL football where average attendence is about 70,000 (the Washington Redskins was close to 90,000 even with the ticket hikes), the NBA with and average of about 17,000 across 40 games and the MLB with about 30,000.
The average MLS gate now is 16,000, it won't be long before it overtakes NBA. Football is also the biggest participator sport in the US for 8 - 15 year olds.


Americans view soccer as much too boring in comparison and sitting through an entire match will be like watching snails fuck.
They showed the Superbowl on English TV some years ago, and for something to do, I got my stopwatch out and timed the actual 'action', that part where the players moved. I started the clock when the guy passed the ball under his nuts, and stopped it when the whistle blew. At the end of the game there was seven and a half minutes on the clock, with the average 'play' lasting around 8-9 seconds. This feast of action took over three hours! No wonder morbidly obese 'brick walls' get to play the game, my grannie could run around for seven and a half minutes in three hours, and she's 107.



What are you talking about. He was replying to manker's post which was in relation to the relative wages of the player's. In which manker pointed out that Beckham would be earning about twice as much a day as most of them earned a year. How do you know what he meant, did you ask him? And for your information, I know what he was saying, and my answer stands ... the wrong choice of words.

[MCHeshPants420]

Part of me wants soccer to take off in America because, to be honest, it's about time they started playing proper sports. Lets send some of our failing rugby and cricket players over as well and then they can get rid of American Football and Baseball.

However, part of me wants it all to fail because if the Americans becoming a footballing power they might try and ruin the beautiful game like they tried to do in '94 by asking for extra advert breaks, trying to make the goals bigger, proposing scrapping or simplifying of the offside rule and wanting all drawn games decided by penalties. Diana Ross missing that penalty (http://www.thevoiceofreason.com/video/2006/DianaRossWorldCup1994.htm)was pretty embarrassing as well.

[Mr JP Fugley]

What are you talking about. He was replying to manker's post which was in relation to the relative wages of the player's. In which manker pointed out that Beckham would be earning about twice as much a day as most of them earned a year. How do you know what he meant, did you ask him? And for your information, I know what he was saying, and my answer stands ... the wrong choice of words.

Fair enough, it doesn't make sense in the context but you stick by it.

[Ava Estelle]

Fair enough, it doesn't make sense in the context but you stick by it.

Of course it makes sense, he\she used a word in a context I don't agree with, or are you claiming it doesn't make sense to disagree with him\her?

[Mr JP Fugley]

Fair enough, it doesn't make sense in the context but you stick by it.

Of course it makes sense, he\she used a word in a context I don't agree with, or are you claiming it doesn't make sense to disagree with him\her?

Nah, can't be arsed with that nonsense just now, Billy.

[Busyman™]

The average MLS gate now is 16,000, it won't be long before it overtakes NBA. Football is also the biggest participator sport in the US for 8 - 15 year olds.


Americans view soccer as much too boring in comparison and sitting through an entire match will be like watching snails fuck.
They showed the Superbowl on English TV some years ago, and for something to do, I got my stopwatch out and timed the actual 'action', that part where the players moved. I started the clock when the guy passed the ball under his nuts, and stopped it when the whistle blew. At the end of the game there was seven and a half minutes on the clock, with the average 'play' lasting around 8-9 seconds. This feast of action took over three hours! No wonder morbidly obese 'brick walls' get to play the game, my grannie could run around for seven and a half minutes in three hours, and she's 107.

:lol: :lol:
You know very little about the NBA then.

The NBA has 32 teams. The MLS....less than half that at 13.

NBA teams play a whopping 82 games vs. 30 MLS games.

So when you compare the gate, compare home games (41 vs. 15) and the number of games that sustain that average. Also add to that that basketball is an arena game, soccer is a stadium game.

One reason football averages 70,000 per match is because there are only 8 home games per team. Imagine a 70,000 turnout across 40 games. It wouldn't happen.

Regarding football, I somewhat agree. I tivo football games and can usually watch a game in 50 minutes cuz I skip commercials and the 30 of the 40-second play clock. I'm gonna do it today with the playoff games. I just do something else while it records and can usually catch up to the live broadcast.

I remember Dominic Purcell made a remark at the SuperBowl that he loves the game but it has too many stops and starts (he played Aussie football). I do like coach's challenges though. It's just pure drama.

However, football players run at balls out speed for the play then get a 30-40 second rest then run it again (if they go no huddle then even less). Add to the fact that it ain't just about running but pummeling and it's a tough game.

So your grannie...scratch that....you wouldn't last past 2 plays cuz either your head would be knocked off by one of those morbidly obese brick walls or you'd pass out cuz you found out that running as hard as you can ain't the same as a paced run.

Regarding the biggest participator for 8-15 year olds, I can see that. It's one of the easiest games for kids to pick-up on. I played when I was in school too. My little girl has been progressing quite well.

[Ava Estelle]

:lol: :lol:
You know very little about the NBA then.

Really? How do you know what I know?

The NBA has 32 teams. The MLS....less than half that at 13.

So?

NBA teams play a whopping 82 games vs. 30 MLS games.

So?

So when you compare the gate, compare home games (41 vs. 15) and the number of games that sustain that average. Also add to that that basketball is an arena game, soccer is a stadium game.

So?

One reason football averages 70,000 per match is because there are only 8 home games per team. Imagine a 70,000 turnout across 40 games. It wouldn't happen.

It does in England, Manchester United play over 60 games a season, half are home games and every one a 76,000+ sellout.

You seem to be making a big deal here over nothing, I mearly pointed out that the average gate at MLS games was 16,000+, thats more than most professional games in England.

However, football players run at balls out speed for the play then get a 30-40 second rest then run it again (if they go no huddle then even less). Add to the fact that it ain't just about running but pummeling and it's a tough game.

Tough but boring. Rugby, on the other hand is tougher, they don't have the body armour, it's faster, and they run for 80 minutes a game, not seven and a half.

So your grannie...scratch that....you wouldn't last past 2 plays cuz either your head would be knocked off by one of those morbidly obese brick walls or you'd pass out cuz you found out that running as hard as you can ain't the same as a paced run.

Running for 8-9 seconds is harder that running for 90 minutes? :lol: :lol:

Regarding the biggest participator for 8-15 year olds, I can see that. It's one of easiest games for kids to pick-up on. I played when I was in school too. My little girl has been progressing quite well.

I really don't give a fuck whether the US takes up football or not, as someone said earlier, if they did they'd try to change the rules and make it as boring as the rest of the American sports no-one else plays. World Series! :lol: :lol:

[Busyman™]

:lol: :lol:
You know very little about the NBA then.

Really? How do you know what I know?

The NBA has 32 teams. The MLS....less than half that at 13.

So?

NBA teams play a whopping 82 games vs. 30 MLS games.

So?

So when you compare the gate, compare home games (41 vs. 15) and the number of games that sustain that average. Also add to that that basketball is an arena game, soccer is a stadium game.

So?

One reason football averages 70,000 per match is because there are only 8 home games per team. Imagine a 70,000 turnout across 40 games. It wouldn't happen.

It does in England, Manchester United play over 60 games a season, half are home games and every one a 76,000+ sellout.

You seem to be making a big deal here over nothing, I mearly pointed out that the average gate at MLS games was 16,000+, thats more than most professional games in England.

No you pointed that it wouldn't be long before it overtook the NBA. I merely corrected the egregious oversight in your comparison. You're welcome.

However, football players run at balls out speed for the play then get a 30-40 second rest then run it again (if they go no huddle then even less). Add to the fact that it ain't just about running but pummeling and it's a tough game.

Tough but boring. Rugby, on the other hand is tougher, they don't have the body armour, it's faster, and they run for 80 minutes a game, not seven and a half.

Football is all about delivering crushing blows. Also you act as if rugby (I'll add soccer also) is constant running. While the clock doesn't stop, both sports have just as many stops but the breaks aren't as lengthy. Run your stopwatch on that. As a matter of fact, in rugby they give a penalty for hitting to fucking hard.:ermm: In football a receiver has to catch the ball even though he might get blindside cracked by an opposing player.

Even if the ball gets near him the opposition gets a free hit. Sorry bud rugby is not tougher in that respect....NOT BY A LONGSHOT. Imagine going across the middle and some fucker taking a crack at you without you seeing him....and it being perfectly legal....yet you barely touched the ball. You don't wtf you are talking about. I agree that rugby involves more paced endurance though.

What makes football beautiful is that the plays are many times works of art. The long bomb to a receiver down field is a thing of beauty. Plays like the flea flicker, halfback option, the end around, etc make up for the 30-40 second wait.

So your grannie...scratch that....you wouldn't last past 2 plays cuz either your head would be knocked off by one of those morbidly obese brick walls or you'd pass out cuz you found out that running as hard as you can ain't the same as a paced run.

Running for 8-9 seconds is harder that running for 90 minutes? :lol: :lol:

Regarding the biggest participator for 8-15 year olds, I can see that. It's one of easiest games for kids to pick-up on. I played when I was in school too. My little girl has been progressing quite well.

I really don't give a fuck whether the US takes up football or not, as someone said earlier, if they did they'd try to change the rules and make it as boring as the rest of the American sports no-one else plays. World Series! :lol: :lol:

We are in agreement regarding whether or not the US jumps on soccer. However it would be nice to go to a match sometimes. I also agree that they might change the rules to gain more of a market. If people start watching though than it worked.

They did that with hockey already (basically moved lines for more scoring oppurtunities) and they've done it numerous times in the NBA....they added the 3 pointer, moved the 3 point line, changed the charge zone, changed the illegal defense call, added the play clock, etc. They did it all in an effort to move the game along. They even allowed teams to advance the ball past half-court after a time-out when under a minute left in the game (I hate that rule although it has provided some intense moments).

[Ava Estelle]

No you pointed that it wouldn't be long before it overtook the NBA. I merely corrected the egregious oversight in your comparison. You did no such thing, I merely pointed out that if the average gate for the MLS passed 17,000 it would pass the NBA, whatever else you come up with is irrelevant.



While the clock doesn't stop, both sports have just as many stops but the breaks aren't as lengthy. Run your stopwatch on that. The clock stops in rugby, they get a full 80 minutes of running around.



As a matter of fact, in rugby they give a penalty for hitting to fucking hard No they don't.



Sorry bud rugby is not tougher Yes it is, and they don't wear kevlar body armour and crash helmets.

[Busyman™]

You did no such thing, I merely pointed out that if the average gate for the MLS passed 17,000 it would pass the NBA, whatever else you come up with is irrelevant.

Pointing out that the average would overtake then NBA is irrelevant then since the MLS plays less than half the games. dUh!:1eye:dUh!


While the clock doesn't stop, both sports have just as many stops but the breaks aren't as lengthy. Run your stopwatch on that. The clock stops in rugby, they get a full 80 minutes of running around.

Mmk. So every time there's a stoppage in play the ref stops the clock. That's different than what I've seen on rugby matches on TV.:smilie4:


As a matter of fact, in rugby they give a penalty for hitting to fucking hard No they don't.

Again, I've seen that in matches on TV. Now I know about the penalties where you can't pick up the ball while unless you are standing but I've seen them penalize for tackling too hard. I can't say it's the rule book that way but that was how it was on TV. It's pussy rule just like the bullshit roughing the passer crap in the NFL.



Sorry bud rugby is not tougher Yes it is, and they don't wear kevlar body armour and crash helmets.

Again, the NFL hits are harder, the players bigger, and dynamic of the game is more punishing on the body. Rugby, and soccer for that matter, win in the constant endurance department but there is no comparison when you've got the blindside hits and crushes of the NFL.

One example I've seen is that if a player is running down field in rugby, an opposing pretty much always will try to rap him up to tackle him.

In the NFL, they concentrate on Mack Trucking the running whenever possible. Many NFL try to do this too much and the runner gets away but when it away...ewwwwwwww!

I think this is due to different dynamics of each game. I mean a rugby player then has to release the ball. In the NFL, the opposing player is trying to knock you out to make you fumble and as mentioned before with the receiver going across the middle, many times it's simply to deliver a crushing hit.

All of this with the pads and helmets no doubt.

[Ava Estelle]

Pointing out that the average would overtake then NBA is irrelevant then since the MLS plays less than half the games. The averages are PER GAME, they have nothing whatsoever to do with the number of games played. :frusty:



So every time there's a stoppage in play the ref stops the clock. Yes



I've seen them penalize for tackling too hard. No you haven't, there's no such rule.



Again, the NFL hits are harder, the players bigger, and dynamic of the game is more punishing on the body. They have BODY ARMOUR and CRASH HELMETS! How many injuries per game in the NFL, and how many deaths from being hit? Have a look at the injury list from rugby, and the deaths.

[Busyman™]

The averages are PER GAME, they have nothing whatsoever to do with the number of games played. :frusty:

If a sport had a 2 game season and another had a 80 game season and averages were the same it would be an irrelevant figure when trying to compare.


So every time there's a stoppage in play the ref stops the clock. Yes

Well that weird. I've seen a team that was leading in score try to take their merry time setting a scrum or on a line-out. I think the clock kept going on conversions too.



I've seen them penalize for tackling too hard. No you haven't, there's no such rule.



Again, the NFL hits are harder, the players bigger, and dynamic of the game is more punishing on the body. They have BODY ARMOUR and CRASH HELMETS! How many injuries per game in the NFL, and how many deaths from being hit? Have a look at the injury list from rugby, and the deaths.

I have no idea. I know the injuries would be higher without the pads and helmets. I understand that it takes some toughness to tackle a player with no protection but you seriously over rate football protection.

While helmets alleviate cracks in the skulls, football has concentration on delivering crushing hits versus just simply stopping your opponent and he get hurt incidentally. I've seen some huge hits in rugby but it's not the norm.

[Mr JP Fugley]

He has a point Ava, rugby players are taught to use the minimal force possible when tackling.

Particularly those rugby league chaps, they're just poofs.

[Ava Estelle]

[QUOTE=Ava Estelle;1663331]The averages are PER GAME, they have nothing whatsoever to do with the number of games played. :frusty:

If a sport had a 2 game season and another had a 80 game season and averages were the same it would be an irrelevant figure when trying to compare.


I really can't believe you're this thick, are you on some sort of medication?

If a team played two games and got 10,000 at one game and 12,000 at the other, their average gate would have been 11,000.

If another team played ten games and their gates were 10,000, 11,000, 12,000, 9,000, 11,000, 10,000, 13,000, 9,000, 12,000 and 13,000, their average gate would have been 11,000 also.

The number of games, when working out an average, is irrelevant.

:frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

[Busyman™]

[QUOTE=Busyman™;1663483]

I really can't believe you're this thick, are you on some sort of medication?

If a team played two games and got 10,000 at one game and 12,000 at the other, their average gate would have been 11,000.

If another team played ten games and their gates were 10,000, 11,000, 12,000, 9,000, 11,000, 10,000, 13,000, 9,000, 12,000 and 13,000, their average gate would have been 11,000 also.

The number of games, when working out an average, is irrelevant.

:frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

Overtaking an average is irrelevant when talking about the success of one league in comparison to another when they play less than half the games

[Busyman™]

He has a point Ava, rugby players are taught to use the minimal force possible when tackling.

Particularly those rugby league chaps, they're just poofs.

Oh fuck no.

I've seen those rugby hits and they can be huge bell-ringers. Especially those head to the gut tackles.

I love it when I can get around to watching it.

But when I see some receiver jump for a pass and he gets helicoptered or blindsided like a tackle dummy it just seems worse.

[Mr JP Fugley]

Chaps, one of you is talking average gates and one is talking total gates. Either is a reasonable figure to use, so long as you compare like with like.

Unsurprisingly Busy uses total as that will equate to the total revenue and everything is about how much is earned. Equally Billy is using average because he's being obtuse and it's the best way to wind Busy up. He also gets to call someone stupid loads of times, even tho' it's him who's continuing the confusion rather than clearing it up.

[Mr JP Fugley]

He has a point Ava, rugby players are taught to use the minimal force possible when tackling.

Particularly those rugby league chaps, they're just poofs.

Oh fuck no.

I've seen those rugby hits and they can be huge bell-ringers. Especially those head to the gut tackles.

I love it when I can get around to watching it.

But when I see some receiver jump for a pass and he gets helicoptered or blindsided like a tackle dummy it just seems worse.

Point is tho' how many of those hits will a receiver take per game. I agree it does look more dramatic as a one off, however over the course of a game who would take the greater pounding.

There's also the point that there are three teams in Football (per side) so attackers tend not to also defend. A rugbyist will be expected to not only take all of those hits, he will need to give them out as well.

[Busyman™]

Chaps, one of you is talking average gates and one is talking total gates. Either is a reasonable figure to use, so long as you compare like with like.

Unsurprisingly Busy uses total as that will equate to the total revenue and everything is about how much is earned. Equally Billy is using average because he's being obtuse and it's the best way to wind Busy up. He also gets to call someone stupid loads of times, even tho' it's him who's continuing the confusion rather than clearing it up.

I even explained it in post 54.:dry:

[Ava Estelle]

He has a point Ava, rugby players are taught to use the minimal force possible when tackling.

Particularly those rugby league chaps, they're just poofs.

2VsbJNtxHL0

[Busyman™]

Oh fuck no.

I've seen those rugby hits and they can be huge bell-ringers. Especially those head to the gut tackles.

I love it when I can get around to watching it.

But when I see some receiver jump for a pass and he gets helicoptered or blindsided like a tackle dummy it just seems worse.

Point is tho' how many of those hits will a receiver take per game. I agree it does look more dramatic as a one off, however over the course of a game who would take the greater pounding.

There's also the point that there are three teams in Football (per side) so attackers tend not to also defend. A rugbyist will be expected to not only take all of those hits, he will need to give them out as well.
Very good point.

The only time an offensive player plays defense and vice-versa is on turnover.

[Ava Estelle]

He also gets to call someone stupid loads of times, even tho' it's him who's continuing the confusion rather than clearing it up.

Bollocks, I've said the same thing throughout this thread, the average gate, you'd need to be thick not to understand, oh, wait ...

[Busyman™]

qAS5fMSgWHo

[Busyman™]

He also gets to call someone stupid loads of times, even tho' it's him who's continuing the confusion rather than clearing it up.

Bollocks, I've said the same thing throughout this thread, the average gate, you'd need to be thick not to understand, oh, wait ...

....and I explained average gate means shit unless you compare like with like.

Otherwise, like you tried to convey, it's irrelevant.

[clocker]

About soccer in America...
Seems to me that I've been hearing that soccer (football, whatever) was going to be the next Big Sport here for over thirty years now.
All it was supposed to take was a generation of kids growing up with the game and turning into adult fans...so what happened?

[j2k4]

About soccer in America...
Seems to me that I've been hearing that soccer (football, whatever) was going to be the next Big Sport here for over thirty years now.
All it was supposed to take was a generation of kids growing up with the game and turning into adult fans...so what happened?

Global warming. :dabs: :dabs:

[100%]

Next step
Victoria in Hollywood movie (choose your topic)
Beckham in Hollywood movie (choose your topic)
step after that
Beckham has an affair with Paris Hilton
Viktoria joins scientologists and has affair with Cruise
Viktoria sues Beck
Beck sues Cruise and Hilton
Vik looses
Beck wins
they move back to Islington with tons of cash
Goal.

[Busyman™]

About soccer in America...
Seems to me that I've been hearing that soccer (football, whatever) was going to be the next Big Sport here for over thirty years now.
All it was supposed to take was a generation of kids growing up with the game and turning into adult fans...so what happened?

They started watching soccer and then remembered the excitement they had with the NBA and NFL and so put soccer on ignore.

[Busyman™]

IEi_bN49bKo

:pinch:

[Mr JP Fugley]

I don't think soccer will ever be big in the US either.

No offence intended but you chaps simply don't appreciate the subtle.

How can it compete with armoured men, throwball and rounders.

To each their own.

[100%]

I don't think soccer will ever be big in the US either.


Yet
that is why they pushed in Beckham,
for
he is the chosen one, (voice from matrix)
from that day on all football players will be handsome, their wives sideline cheerleaders, so that the world can be united in one united monogamous sport, watched and promoted by LA stars.
He is the link.

Although i think selling him to China would have better consequences per capita.

[Busyman™]

I don't think soccer will ever be big in the US either.

No offence intended but you chaps simply don't appreciate the subtle.

How can it compete with armoured men, throwball and rounders.

To each their own.

I work with 2 guys that played soccer in college and they said something similar.

He said when you watch a soccer match, that a player could do this little thing or move and soccer fans would say "Ohhhhhh" but the average joe would just look and say it's no big deal.

I have to admit that it might be that once you've got things like

the long bomb
the hail mary
the blocked punt or field goal
the punt return for a touchdown
the bone crushing blind-side hit on a receiver
and the trick plays of football

or

the buzzer beaters
the alley-oops
the dunk in the face
the shaken ankles
the give and go
the steals
and the behind the back passes of basketball


then it's very hard to watch a soccer match. I think that one thing that makes soccer exciting for fans is the anticipation of a goal.

I do however love when a player shakes the hell out of an opposing player and makes him fall. Doing it with the hand like in basketball is one thing but with the feet is simply amazing.

Tbh, I can't imagine baseball taking off if it was invented well after the other . Who knows?:idunno:

I am curious though. What makes a spectator lose it at a soccer match?

What makes you jump up and go "WOW!", besides a goal or the aforementioned shake, obvious meant.

Sometimes basketball and football have me exhausted. I just can't see the subtle doing that. One of those former soccer players at work pointed out also that although it's much harder to score a goal in soccer, basketball and football are far more complex games.

[Mr JP Fugley]

I am curious though. What makes a spectator lose it at a soccer match?



It's probably more the tribalism than anything else.

I can watch an excellent game of football and appreciate the subtlety and skill. At the end thinking "that was a fine example of how the game should be played". However if you want to see me "lose it" you really need to see me watch my own team. Particularly if it's at the ground. Then it can be the most crap game ever and it really doesn't matter.

[Barbarossa]

He said when you watch a soccer match, that a player could do this little thing or move and soccer fans would say "Ohhhhhh" but the average joe would just look and say it's no big deal.

Outside of the US, Average Joe is a soccer (sic) fan.

[Busyman™]

He said when you watch a soccer match, that a player could do this little thing or move and soccer fans would say "Ohhhhhh" but the average joe would just look and say it's no big deal.

Outside of the US, Average Joe is a soccer (sic) fan.

Agreed. Here it is not, of course.