Memorial Day

[clocker]

http://www.worldwartwotimeline.com/Flag%20raising%20on%20Iwo%20Jima.gif

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

There you go Buddy!
:rolleyes:

[kAb]

http://www.nava.org/salute.gif

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

Don't cha just love this kid?
He's only a freshman in HS.
Hey you better not be saying under god when you do that.
The libs and the ACLU will come after you!
And then not even Ms.Allred will be able to protect you!!

[kAb]

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@23 May 2003 - 19:28
Don't cha just love this kid?
He's only a freshman in HS.
Hey you better not be saying under god when you do that.
The libs and the ACLU will come after you!
And then not even Ms.Allred will be able to protect you!!
:P


why the hell is "under god" still in there anyways?

we aren't still angry at the russian communists and trying to seperate ourselves from them...

[hobbes]

The United States is founded under the philosophy of freedom of the individual in regard to speech, press and religion. Separation between the church and the state is essential.

God and love for ones country are mutually exclusive.

All references to God in government (on money, in anthems) should be dropped, as the individual right to NOT believe in God is as valid as one who does.

Freedom of the individual supercedes any divine obligation of our government.

[myfiles3000]

Originally posted by hobbes@24 May 2003 - 05:38
The United States is founded under the philosophy of freedom of the individual in regard to speech, press and religion. Separation between the church and the state is essential.

God and love for ones country are mutally exclusive.

All references to God in government (on money, in anthems) should be dropped, as the individual right to NOT believe in God is a valid as one who does.

Freedom of the individual supercedes any divine obligation of our government.
word

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by kAb+24 May 2003 - 04:29--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kAb @ 24 May 2003 - 04:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ShockAndAwe^i^@23 May 2003 - 19:28
Don&#39;t cha just love this kid?
He&#39;s only a freshman in HS.
Hey you better not be saying under god when you do that.
The libs and the ACLU will come after you&#33;
And then not even Ms.Allred will be able to protect you&#33;&#33;
:P


why the hell is "under god" still in there anyways?

we aren&#39;t still angry at the russian communists and trying to seperate ourselves from them... [/b][/quote]
Better not say "Land of The Free" or the Conservatives will be after you........

[clocker]

http://www.awildorchid.com/unkwn1.jpg

[kAb]

Originally posted by clocker@24 May 2003 - 04:22
http://www.awildorchid.com/unkwn1.jpg
Unknown soldiers?

[OlderThanDirt]

kAb wrote

why the hell is "under god" still in there anyways?

Click here (http://www.freewebs.com/osob/pledge.htm) for the long answer to that question.

[j2k4]

I shall spend Memorial day at work, but since I&#39;ll have the whole place to myself, I can spend as much of my time there as I like in contemplation of the sacrifices my countrymen have made on MY behalf.
Seems to me that was Clocker&#39;s point.

Here&#39;s a surprise-take "Under God We Trust" out of, and off of, anything you like; I won&#39;t object-in fact, I&#39;ll support your efforts.

I wonder, though; will the Pledge be re-introduced in schools with the same alacrity it was removed?

[OlderThanDirt]

How about if we make the Pledge an individualized reading ... that everyone can read whatever pledge they want. Now THAT would be freedom of speech. How about my pledge:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
And to the republic for which it stands.
One nation, under seige by radical Islamists,
With liberty for the ones who can "get away with it,"
And justice for the ones who can "pay for it."

(hehe, tongue firmly planted in cheek)

[OlderThanDirt]

Pardon my irreverence, hehe.


Clocker posted this photo:

http://www.worldwartwotimeline.com/Flag%20raising%20on%20Iwo%20Jima.gif

Here&#39;s a vision from Baghdad&#39;s future:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/iraq_mcdonalds.jpg
:lol:

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

Hi OTD
Glad to see ya.
I was wondering when you might make your way here.
I think the "under god" part is correct.
I think Bob Dylan said it best"your gonna have to serve somebody"
This nation is truly blessed.
We&#39;re not betterr than anyone else just blessed.
God Bless America&#33;

[opivy]

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@24 May 2003 - 20:49
How about if we make the Pledge an individualized reading ... that everyone can read whatever pledge they want. Now THAT would be freedom of speech. How about my pledge:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
And to the republic for which it stands.
One nation, under seige by radical Islamists,
With liberty for the ones who can "get away with it,"
And justice for the ones who can "pay for it."

(hehe, tongue firmly planted in cheek)
How about this one

I pledge a grievance to the flag of the United States Of America and to the Republicans whome I can&#39;t stand
one nation under smog indispicable with liberty for just us not all.

[OlderThanDirt]

opivy wrote:

How about this one

I pledge a grievance to the flag of the United States Of America and to the Republicans whome I can&#39;t stand
one nation under smog indispicable with liberty for just us not all.

Sounds good to me, hehe. Personally, I can&#39;t stand either the Republicans or the Democrats ... so were I to include political parties in my pledge, it would have to be longer.

FWIW, here&#39;s a short-short story/article I had published back in 1994 or 1995 in a local political mag. And, I made the mistake of allowing the editor to post my email address. Hehe, I got more hate mail on this than on any other article I&#39;ve ever written. But, I dredge it out every election year to raise as many hackles as possible:

The Libertarian Luncheon (or why there&#39;ll never be a Libertarian President)
© 1994/1995 (OlderThanDirt)

Once upon an election year, patrons crowded a Washington, DC restaurant for lunch. Then, a man walked into the restaurant and called for the patrons&#39; attention.

"Fellow citizens," the man said. "I&#39;m the Democratic candidate for President of the United States. And, if you vote for me, I&#39;ll pay for your lunches."

Patrons gave the candidate a round of applause. However, unknown to the patrons, the Democrat planned to pay for their lunches by imposing a post-election tax. The tax would not only cover the cost of the lunches but pay the salary of a bureaucrat he&#39;d hire to collect the tax. Then, another man walked into the restaurant and called for the patrons&#39; attention.

"Fellow citizens," the man said. "I&#39;m the Republican candidate for President of the United States. And, if you vote for me, I&#39;ll not only pay for your lunches. I&#39;ll promise that you&#39;ll never EVER have to pay me back&#33;"

Patrons gave the candidate a standing ovation. However, unknown to the patrons, the Republican planned on paying for their lunches by charging them to the VISAs and MasterCards of the patrons&#39; children and grandchildren. Then, another man walked into the restaurant and called for the patrons&#39; attention.

"Fellow citizens," the man said. "I&#39;m the Libertarian candidate for President of the United States. And, if you vote for me, I&#39;ll pay for my lunch and you can pay for yours."

Patrons booed and hissed. And, therein lies the reason that no Libertarian will ever become President of the United States. Libertarians consistently tell the American electorate the one truth they refuse to accept ... that there&#39;s no such thing as a free lunch.

-30-

[OlderThanDirt]

ShockAndAwe^i^ wrote:

Hi OTD
Glad to see ya.
I was wondering when you might make your way here.

Thanks. Glad to be here. Clocker invited me to check out the lounge to see what I could see.


I think the "under god" part is correct.

I disagree ... but it has nothing to do with religion at all. Did you read the article I linked to a few posts ago? It&#39;s a bit longish but explains my position on the matter. Here&#39;s the link (http://www.freewebs.com/osob/pledge.htm) again. I&#39;m not a Christian. But, I am a Deist in the Benjamin Franklin sense.


I think Bob Dylan said it best"your gonna have to serve somebody"
This nation is truly blessed.
We&#39;re not betterr than anyone else just blessed.
God Bless America&#33;

I couldn&#39;t agree more. :)

[opivy]

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@24 May 2003 - 22:03
FWIW, here&#39;s a short-short story/article I had published back in 1994 or 1995 in a local political mag. And, I made the mistake of allowing the editor to post my email address. Hehe, I got more hate mail on this than on any other article I&#39;ve ever written. But, I dredge it out every election year to raise as many hackles as possible:

The Libertarian Luncheon (or why there&#39;ll never be a Libertarian President)
© 1994/1995 (OlderThanDirt)

Once upon an election year, patrons crowded a Washington, DC restaurant for lunch. Then, a man walked into the restaurant and called for the patrons&#39; attention.

"Fellow citizens," the man said. "I&#39;m the Democratic candidate for President of the United States. And, if you vote for me, I&#39;ll pay for your lunches."

Patrons gave the candidate a round of applause. However, unknown to the patrons, the Democrat planned to pay for their lunches by imposing a post-election tax. The tax would not only cover the cost of the lunches but pay the salary of a bureaucrat he&#39;d hire to collect the tax. Then, another man walked into the restaurant and called for the patrons&#39; attention.

"Fellow citizens," the man said. "I&#39;m the Republican candidate for President of the United States. And, if you vote for me, I&#39;ll not only pay for your lunches. I&#39;ll promise that you&#39;ll never EVER have to pay me back&#33;"

Patrons gave the candidate a standing ovation. However, unknown to the patrons, the Republican planned on paying for their lunches by charging them to the VISAs and MasterCards of the patrons&#39; children and grandchildren. Then, another man walked into the restaurant and called for the patrons&#39; attention.

"Fellow citizens," the man said. "I&#39;m the Libertarian candidate for President of the United States. And, if you vote for me, I&#39;ll pay for my lunch and you can pay for yours."

Patrons booed and hissed. And, therein lies the reason that no Libertarian will ever become President of the United States. Libertarians consistently tell the American electorate the one truth they refuse to accept ... that there&#39;s no such thing as a free lunch.

-30-
HAHA I love it awsome article and so very true. :D

[OlderThanDirt]

opivy wrote:

HAHA I love it awsome article and so very true.

Virtual bows B) . I admit it&#39;s a simplistic course in Political Economics 101, but, in my 53 years on this planet, I&#39;ve found the basics to hold true.

[clocker]

I can&#39;t recall the name of the comedian who said (Louis Black maybe?)....

"People always ask me if I&#39;m a Republican or a Democrat.

I tell them that I can&#39;t really be either...

I can&#39;t be a Democrat because I want to keep the money I earn, and spend it.

And I tell them I can&#39;t be a Republican because I want to spend that money on drugs and whores&#33;"

so I guess that would make him a Libertarian, too...

[OlderThanDirt]

clocker wrote:

And I tell them I can&#39;t be a Republican because I want to spend that money on drugs and whores&#33;"

so I guess that would make him a Libertarian, too...

Hehe, I can live with that. But, I suspect Republicans spend just as much money (if not more) on drugs and whores as the Democrats do. They just spend it more quietly.

[clocker]

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@24 May 2003 - 16:53


Hehe, I can live with that. But, I suspect Republicans spend just as much money (if not more) on drugs and whores as the Democrats do. They just spend it more quietly.
hmmm...ya think??
http://www.dekezucker.com/images/swaggart.jpg

[OlderThanDirt]

Yes ... but God forgave him (snarf).

How about this guy:

"Wha...he turned me into a newt...it got better&#33;" (Monty Python)
http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/bios/images/gingrich.JPG

From the Skeleton Closet (http://www.realchange.org) website:

Several newspapers are now reporting that Newt Gingrich is dating and basically living with Callista Bisek, a "willowy blond Congressional aide 23 years his junior." Biske, 33, has been spending nights at Gingrich&#39;s apartment near the Capitol and has her own key. In an amazing act of hypocrisy, Gingrich was apparently dating Bisek all during Clinton-Lewinsky adultery scandal, even as he proclaimed family values and bitterly criticized the President for his adultery.

Reporters and other Washington insiders have known about this relationship since 1994, even before Gingrich became Speaker of the House, but did not have any solid proof to report. In 1995, Vanity Fair magazine described Bisek as Gingrich&#39;s "frequent breakfast companion." Gingrich was married to Marianne Gingrich during all of that time, and just filed for divorce in August 1999.

Newt is apparently trying to create a new hybrid form, Christian adultery. According to MSNBC, Bisek sings in the National Shrine Choir, and Newt would often wait for her at the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, listening to her sing while he read the Bible.

This is hardly the first time Newt has cheated, either. "It was common knowledge that Newt was involved with other women during his [first] marriage to Jackie. Maybe not on the level of John Kennedy. But he had girlfriends -- some serious, some trivial." -- Dot Crews, his campaign scheduler throughout the 70s. One woman, Anne Manning, has come forward and confirmed a relationship with him during the 1976 campaign. "We had oral sex. He prefers that modus operandi because then he can say, &#39;I never slept with her.&#39;"

Kip Carter, his former campaign treasurer, was walking Newt&#39;s daughters back from a football game one day and cut across a driveway where he saw a car. "As I got to the car, I saw Newt in the passenger seat and one of the guys&#39; wives with her head in his lap going up and down. Newt kind of turned and gave me this little-boy smile. Fortunately, Jackie Sue and Kathy were a lot younger and shorter then."

[hobbes]

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@25 May 2003 - 00:26
Yes ... but God forgave him (snarf).

How about this guy:

"Wha...he turned me into a newt...it got better&#33;" (Monty Python)
http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/bios/images/gingrich.JPG

From the Skeleton Closet (http://www.realchange.org) website:

Several newspapers are now reporting that Newt Gingrich is dating and basically living with Callista Bisek, a "willowy blond Congressional aide 23 years his junior." Biske, 33, has been spending nights at Gingrich&#39;s apartment near the Capitol and has her own key. In an amazing act of hypocrisy, Gingrich was apparently dating Bisek all during Clinton-Lewinsky adultery scandal, even as he proclaimed family values and bitterly criticized the President for his adultery.

Reporters and other Washington insiders have known about this relationship since 1994, even before Gingrich became Speaker of the House, but did not have any solid proof to report. In 1995, Vanity Fair magazine described Bisek as Gingrich&#39;s "frequent breakfast companion." Gingrich was married to Marianne Gingrich during all of that time, and just filed for divorce in August 1999.

Newt is apparently trying to create a new hybrid form, Christian adultery. According to MSNBC, Bisek sings in the National Shrine Choir, and Newt would often wait for her at the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, listening to her sing while he read the Bible.

This is hardly the first time Newt has cheated, either. "It was common knowledge that Newt was involved with other women during his [first] marriage to Jackie. Maybe not on the level of John Kennedy. But he had girlfriends -- some serious, some trivial." -- Dot Crews, his campaign scheduler throughout the 70s. One woman, Anne Manning, has come forward and confirmed a relationship with him during the 1976 campaign. "We had oral sex. He prefers that modus operandi because then he can say, &#39;I never slept with her.&#39;"

Kip Carter, his former campaign treasurer, was walking Newt&#39;s daughters back from a football game one day and cut across a driveway where he saw a car. "As I got to the car, I saw Newt in the passenger seat and one of the guys&#39; wives with her head in his lap going up and down. Newt kind of turned and gave me this little-boy smile. Fortunately, Jackie Sue and Kathy were a lot younger and shorter then."
It is posts like these which help to document for the naive why I have a fatalistic attitude about politics. All we do is trade one liar for another. What is the point?

Hypocracy, lies, misdirection and obfuscation: these are the personality traits of those who succeed in politics.

This is as true today as it will be 200 years from now.

It is something about the desire for power that attracts these types.

[OlderThanDirt]

hobbes wrote:

Hypocracy, lies, misdirection and obfuscation: these are the personality traits of those who succeed in politics.

At least our politicians are generally polite :D . They don&#39;t go around trying to assassinate each other like, say, in the Philippines.

[clocker]

Originally posted by hobbes@24 May 2003 - 17:40


Hypocracy, lies, misdirection and obfuscation: these are the personality traits of those who succeed in politics.


"Those are my principles. If you don&#39;t like them I have others."
http://www.jgkeegan.com/pics/gcigar.jpg

[j2k4]

OTD-
You&#39;re right about Republican spending.

I&#39;m reminded of a Jay Leno quote from years ago:

Every time I think &#39;Democrat&#39;, they do something stupid.

Every time I think &#39;Republican&#39;, they do something greedy.

I, therefore, have re-defined myself, and now occupy my own, one-man political school of thought; what&#39;s cool is I don&#39;t even have to name it.

If I did, though, it would begin with the prefix &#39;Paleo-&#39; :D

[OlderThanDirt]

I just refer to myself as a "militant moderate," guaranteeing angst from both extremes. ;) For example, I&#39;m pro-life ... but for scientific, not religious, reasons. And, I believe that "under God" should be taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance for reasons of "historic preservation" of the work as it was originally written. Being a moderate keeps people guessing what I really think, hehe ... and the "militant" part means my views can swing to either extreme. Perhaps I should call myself a pendulumist (or would that be a pendulumian). My views on universal health care would make people think I&#39;m a socialist ... but my views on death penalty reform would make people think I&#39;m a barbarian, hehe.

[clocker]

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@24 May 2003 - 20:26
&nbsp; Being a moderate keeps people guessing what I really think, hehe ... and the "militant" part means my views can swing to either extreme.&nbsp; Perhaps I should call myself a pendulumist (or would that be a pendulumian).
http://www.photo.net/photo/pcd0741/no-zoo-orangutan-single-swing-12.3.jpg

hmmm... today I feel Liberal&#33;

[OlderThanDirt]

clocker wrote:

hmmm... today I feel Liberal&#33;

Well, not really. Once I establish an opinion, I generally stick to it (barring insightful input to the contrary). But, there are so many opinions to have B) . A more accurate photo would be of me in a Star Fleet uniform standing on a transporter pad. When someone asks me about universal health care, I&#39;d beam to the left, and when someone asks me about death penalty reform, I&#39;d beam so far to the right I might fall over. :lol:

[clocker]

http://www.earunit.org/rands/images/randtrek.jpeg

Futurepolitik

[j2k4]

If this forum change works out, we&#39;re gonna have lotsa fun, aren&#39;t we? :P :P :P

We better start thinking about pinned subjects, like "How to post consistently and coherently"; and we can start with myfiles3000. :lol:

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

Yeah we&#39;re gonna have some fun. ;)
There&#39;s so many things(social issues) happening here in the US that I think that if we want to bring the rest of the world in we&#39;re gonna have to bring them up to speed sometimes.(ie Gloria Allred/Scot Peterson type stuff)
I think maybe at the beginning of the post we give a brief summary and visa versa.