View Full Version : britain worst place for children
This came out last week, but its so quiet in here...
Children growing up in the United Kingdom suffer greater deprivation, worse relationships with their parents and are exposed to more risks from alcohol, drugs and unsafe sex than those in any other wealthy country in the world, according to a study from the United Nations.
The UK is bottom of the league of 21 economically advanced countries according to a "report card"' put together by Unicef on the wellbeing of children and adolescents, trailing the United States which comes second to last.
Today's findings will be a blow to the government, which has set great store by lifting children out of poverty and improving their education and prospects. Al Aynsley Green, the children's commissioner for England, acknowledges that the UN has accurately highlighted the troubled lives of children. "There is a crisis at the heart of our society and we must not continue to ignore the impact of our attitudes towards children and young people and the effect that this has on their wellbeing," he says in a response today.
"I hope this report will prompt us all to look beyond the statistics and to the underlying causes of our failure to nurture happy and healthy children in the UK. These children represent the future of our country and from the findings of this report they are in poor health, unable to maintain loving and successful relationships, feel unsafe and insecure, have low aspirations and put themselves at risk.
"It is time to stop demonising children and young people for what goes wrong and start supporting them to make positive choices. To bring an end to the confusing messages we give to young people about their role, responsibility and position in society and ensure that every child feels valued and has their rights respected."
The Unicef team assessed the treatment of children in six different areas - material wellbeing; health and safety; educational wellbeing, family and peer relationships, behaviours and risks; and the young people's own perceptions of their wellbeing.
The Netherlands tops the league, followed by Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Spain. The bottom five are Portugal, Austria, Hungary, the US and the UK.
Nine countries, all of them in northern Europe, have brought child poverty down below 10%, the report shows. But it remains at 15% in the three southern European countries - Portugal, Spain and Italy - and in the UK, Ireland and the US. Child poverty is a relative measure that shows how far their standard of living has fallen below the national average.
The Unicef report adds: "The evidence from many countries persistently shows that children who grow up in poverty are more vulnerable: specifically, they are more likely to be in poor health, to have learning and behavioural difficulties, to underachieve at school, to become pregnant at too early an age, to have lower skills and aspirations, to be low paid, unemployed and welfare-dependent."
The Conservatives seized on the report, claiming that it endorsed their attack on the way in which Gordon Brown had addressed the issue of child poverty, and the prime minister had demonised the role of children in his drive against antisocial behaviour.
The shadow chancellor, George Osborne, said: "This report tells the truth about Brown's Britain. After 10 years of his welfare and education policies, our children today have the lowest wellbeing in the developed world."
Labour said it had taken 700,000 people out of child poverty and was mounting an unprecedented investment programme in a network of children's centres. A government spokesman argued that in many cases the data use d in the report was several years old and "does not reflect more recent improvements in the UK such as the continuing fall in the teenage pregnancy rate or in the proportion of children living in workless households".
Some of the most shocking findings concern the relationships children and adolescents have with their family and peers. The UK is bottom of the 21 countries.
This, says Unicef, "is as difficult to measure as it is critical to wellbeing".
To attempt to score countries, the experts have focused on children's own reports of how much time their parents spend "just talking" to them, how many say they eat the main meal of the day with their parents more than once a week and the percentages of 11, 13 and 15-year-olds who find their peers "kind and helpful". UK parents do reasonably well on "talking regularly" - 60% of children say they chat, putting Britain 12th in the league table. But while a similar proportion say they eat together more than once a week, the UK lags towards the bottom of the league, with Italy, Iceland and France at the very top end.
The report presents a sad picture of relationships with friends, which are so important to children. Not much more than 40% of the UK's 11, 13 and 15-year-olds find their peers "kind and helpful", which is the worst score of all the developed countries.
The UK takes bottom place "by a considerable distance" for the number of young people who smoke, abuse drink and drugs, engage in risky sex and become pregnant at too early an age. For 16 out of 17 OECD countries with the data, between 15% and 28% of young people have had sex by the age of 15. For the UK, the figure is 40%.
On education, the UK comes 17th out of 21. At the age of 15, British children score relatively well on reading, mathematical and scientific literacy. But more than 30% of 15- to 19-year-olds are not in education or training and are not looking beyond low-skilled work.
CHILD WELL-BEING TABLE
1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Spain
6. Switzerland
7. Norway
8. Italy
9. Republic of Ireland
10. Belgium
11. Germany
12. Canada
13. Greece
14. Poland
15. Czech Republic
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Austria
19. Hungary
20. United States
21. United Kingdom
Nothing particularly surprising in the individual stats for me, but it is depressing that we're last. Why do scandinavian countries + switzerland always seem to win these things? What is so different about their laws/culture that makes them 'technically' nicer places to live?
Personally I want to experiment with a scandinavian model: i.e. high taxes, high welfare support, bugger all standing military, low geopolitical power, lower population if possible. It would no doubt come at the expense of some economic growth (might be wrong but i don't think scandinavian countries perform very well in this area), but do you care if it does work and makes the country a nicer place to live?
bigboab
02-18-2007, 01:09 PM
This came out last week, but its so quiet in here...
Children growing up in the United Kingdom suffer greater deprivation, worse relationships with their parents and are exposed to more risks from alcohol, drugs and unsafe sex than those in any other wealthy country in the world, according to a study from the United Nations.
The UK is bottom of the league of 21 economically advanced countries according to a "report card"' put together by Unicef on the wellbeing of children and adolescents, trailing the United States which comes second to last.
Today's findings will be a blow to the government, which has set great store by lifting children out of poverty and improving their education and prospects. Al Aynsley Green, the children's commissioner for England, acknowledges that the UN has accurately highlighted the troubled lives of children. "There is a crisis at the heart of our society and we must not continue to ignore the impact of our attitudes towards children and young people and the effect that this has on their wellbeing," he says in a response today.
"I hope this report will prompt us all to look beyond the statistics and to the underlying causes of our failure to nurture happy and healthy children in the UK. These children represent the future of our country and from the findings of this report they are in poor health, unable to maintain loving and successful relationships, feel unsafe and insecure, have low aspirations and put themselves at risk.
"It is time to stop demonising children and young people for what goes wrong and start supporting them to make positive choices. To bring an end to the confusing messages we give to young people about their role, responsibility and position in society and ensure that every child feels valued and has their rights respected."
The Unicef team assessed the treatment of children in six different areas - material wellbeing; health and safety; educational wellbeing, family and peer relationships, behaviours and risks; and the young people's own perceptions of their wellbeing.
The Netherlands tops the league, followed by Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Spain. The bottom five are Portugal, Austria, Hungary, the US and the UK.
Nine countries, all of them in northern Europe, have brought child poverty down below 10%, the report shows. But it remains at 15% in the three southern European countries - Portugal, Spain and Italy - and in the UK, Ireland and the US. Child poverty is a relative measure that shows how far their standard of living has fallen below the national average.
The Unicef report adds: "The evidence from many countries persistently shows that children who grow up in poverty are more vulnerable: specifically, they are more likely to be in poor health, to have learning and behavioural difficulties, to underachieve at school, to become pregnant at too early an age, to have lower skills and aspirations, to be low paid, unemployed and welfare-dependent."
The Conservatives seized on the report, claiming that it endorsed their attack on the way in which Gordon Brown had addressed the issue of child poverty, and the prime minister had demonised the role of children in his drive against antisocial behaviour.
The shadow chancellor, George Osborne, said: "This report tells the truth about Brown's Britain. After 10 years of his welfare and education policies, our children today have the lowest wellbeing in the developed world."
Labour said it had taken 700,000 people out of child poverty and was mounting an unprecedented investment programme in a network of children's centres. A government spokesman argued that in many cases the data use d in the report was several years old and "does not reflect more recent improvements in the UK such as the continuing fall in the teenage pregnancy rate or in the proportion of children living in workless households".
Some of the most shocking findings concern the relationships children and adolescents have with their family and peers. The UK is bottom of the 21 countries.
This, says Unicef, "is as difficult to measure as it is critical to wellbeing".
To attempt to score countries, the experts have focused on children's own reports of how much time their parents spend "just talking" to them, how many say they eat the main meal of the day with their parents more than once a week and the percentages of 11, 13 and 15-year-olds who find their peers "kind and helpful". UK parents do reasonably well on "talking regularly" - 60% of children say they chat, putting Britain 12th in the league table. But while a similar proportion say they eat together more than once a week, the UK lags towards the bottom of the league, with Italy, Iceland and France at the very top end.
The report presents a sad picture of relationships with friends, which are so important to children. Not much more than 40% of the UK's 11, 13 and 15-year-olds find their peers "kind and helpful", which is the worst score of all the developed countries.
The UK takes bottom place "by a considerable distance" for the number of young people who smoke, abuse drink and drugs, engage in risky sex and become pregnant at too early an age. For 16 out of 17 OECD countries with the data, between 15% and 28% of young people have had sex by the age of 15. For the UK, the figure is 40%.
On education, the UK comes 17th out of 21. At the age of 15, British children score relatively well on reading, mathematical and scientific literacy. But more than 30% of 15- to 19-year-olds are not in education or training and are not looking beyond low-skilled work.
CHILD WELL-BEING TABLE
1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Spain
6. Switzerland
7. Norway
8. Italy
9. Republic of Ireland
10. Belgium
11. Germany
12. Canada
13. Greece
14. Poland
15. Czech Republic
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Austria
19. Hungary
20. United States
21. United Kingdom
Nothing particularly surprising in the individual stats for me, but it is depressing that we're last. Why do scandinavian countries + switzerland always seem to win these things? What is so different about their laws/culture that makes them 'technically' nicer places to live?
Personally I want to experiment with a scandinavian model: i.e. high taxes, high welfare support, bugger all standing military, low geopolitical power, lower population if possible. It would no doubt come at the expense of some economic growth (might be wrong but i don't think scandinavian countries perform very well in this area), but do you care if it does work and makes the country a nicer place to live?
Wouldn't we all.:P
I agree with you entirely. One of the biggest faults in the UK is that adults will not listen to children.
Sounds like horseshit to me.
Where did this come from, Ian?
bigboab
02-18-2007, 02:16 PM
Sounds like horseshit to me.
Where did this come from, Ian?
It must be true. It was in the papers.:rolleyes:
Sounds like horseshit to me.
Where did this come from, Ian?
It must be true. It was in the papers.:rolleyes:
Well, I don't care - my competitive juices have been stirred - there cannot be anything at all (at all) in the U.K. that is worse than it is here, and everyone knows it.
We'll sue for last place, if we can find a venue willing to entertain our complaint. ;)
Mr JP Fugley
02-18-2007, 03:07 PM
I believe it's from a UNICEF report.
I believe it's from a UNICEF report.
Well, there you go.
Qiute possibly the most blatantly pro-child organization extant.
Incredibly biased.
It must be true. It was in the papers.:rolleyes:
Well, I don't care - my competitive juices have been stirred - there cannot be anything at all (at all) in the U.K. that is worse than it is here, and everyone knows it.
We'll sue for last place, if we can find a venue willing to entertain our complaint. ;)
i think you'll find that we kick your arse in drugs, underage drinking and underage sex. :01: though being an open minded person, i think its wrong to assume these are bad things, and if britain really is the worst place to grow up maybe they're the only things keeping the kids from topping themselves :rolleyes:
article is from the guardian, underlying report is from UNICEF
Part of the problem with this report is that it is almost entirely statistics based, with little regard for common sense.
For example, if you had a country with 5 families, one earning 10 million (pounds, dollars, euros, it doesn't matter) per year and the other 4 earning only 1 million per year then UNICEF statistics would tell you that 80 percent of the population was living in property. While it would be pretty easy to spot in a country of only 5 families, it isn't quite so obvious when you look at real countries.
In addition, many of the so called "failings" are in areas of the child's own "perceived" wellbeing, but that doesn't tell you whether their wellbeing is felt to be lower because they have higher expectations. I saw some extracts of the way some of the kids were interviewed, and many of the observations the kids came up with had little or no basis on fact.
The report places most emphasis on the areas which are most difficult to measure, not even a remotely sensible position on which to base a judgement.
Well, I don't care - my competitive juices have been stirred - there cannot be anything at all (at all) in the U.K. that is worse than it is here, and everyone knows it.
We'll sue for last place, if we can find a venue willing to entertain our complaint. ;)
i think you'll find that we kick your arse in drugs, underage drinking and underage sex. :01: though being an open minded person, i think its wrong to assume these are bad things, and if britain really is the worst place to grow up maybe they're the only things keeping the kids from topping themselves :rolleyes:
article is from the guardian, underlying report is from UNICEF
While 'tis a true enigma that any society can out-do us in the area of youth-neglect, I am sure you are a victim of bias.
You should be very proud.
peat moss
02-18-2007, 04:32 PM
I'm not surprised the Euro counties place so high but Canada only 12 ? You'd think with free Medical and the school system we have it would be higher .
Hey always room for improvement I guess .
lynx, i broadly agree with your sentiment on the poverty measurement thing, although i think they use a percentage of median income rather than just the mean so in your example none of them would be considered poor, but if there were a few families earning 500K then they would be...
The report places most emphasis on the areas which are most difficult to measure, not even a remotely sensible position on which to base a judgement.
This, says Unicef, "is as difficult to measure as it is critical to wellbeing".
To attempt to score countries, the experts have focused on children's own reports of ... the percentages of 11, 13 and 15-year-olds who find their peers "kind and helpful".
It may be difficult to measure, but the difference between kids in this country and those in others is pretty startling. My general experience is that they're little shits in this country, whereas when i stayed in Switzerland (Zurich) for a while the kids there were freakishly polite & helpful.
Part of the problem with this report is that it is almost entirely statistics based, with little regard for common sense.
For example, if you had a country with 5 families, one earning 10 million (pounds, dollars, euros, it doesn't matter) per year and the other 4 earning only 1 million per year then UNICEF statistics would tell you that 80 percent of the population was living in property. While it would be pretty easy to spot in a country of only 5 families, it isn't quite so obvious when you look at real countries.
In addition, many of the so called "failings" are in areas of the child's own "perceived" wellbeing, but that doesn't tell you whether their wellbeing is felt to be lower because they have higher expectations. I saw some extracts of the way some of the kids were interviewed, and many of the observations the kids came up with had little or no basis on fact.
The report places most emphasis on the areas which are most difficult to measure, not even a remotely sensible position on which to base a judgement.
All quite true.
What we actually need is an 'international" institution which can parse such studies and reports on the basis of their practical worth.
It's either that or we resort to our own sensibilities, and we can't have that, now, can we?
It may be difficult to measure, but the difference between kids in this country and those in others is pretty startling. My general experience is that they're little shits in this country, whereas when i stayed in Switzerland (Zurich) for a while the kids there were freakishly polite & helpful.But you've got a poor starting point. If they excluded Liverpool we'd probably have been top across the board. ;)
It may be difficult to measure, but the difference between kids in this country and those in others is pretty startling. My general experience is that they're little shits in this country, whereas when i stayed in Switzerland (Zurich) for a while the kids there were freakishly polite & helpful.But you've got a poor starting point. If they excluded Liverpool we'd probably have been top across the board. ;)
Not sure i understand, are you suggesting i'm a scouser? I don't think i've ever been to liverpool
vidcc
02-18-2007, 05:22 PM
Just glancing at the article and not actually reading the report with all aspects broken down it occurs that it's not just a critique of political policy but rather a look at the failings of parents.
"well being" is such an encompassing term. Add the fact that this is limited to "wealthy nations". Child well being tends to be worse in poorer countries, the problems tend to be more basic like starvation and disease, so I think that the overall conclusion is that as wealthy nations the failings are in ourselves.
Poverty comes with it's own problems but not everything can be blamed on it. Obscene wealth can be just as dangerous to the personal well being of children as poverty can. What I will say is that with obscene wealth the dangers are easier to avoid as there is more control over the situation.
In short what I get from this article is that we have advantages over the less well off nations, but we are failing to utilise those advantages and are instead allowing them to create our own problems.
Colt Seevers
02-18-2007, 06:27 PM
Mon The Dutch!!!!!!!!!! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6360517.stm?ls)
But you've got a poor starting point. If they excluded Liverpool we'd probably have been top across the board. ;)
Not sure i understand, are you suggesting i'm a scouser? I don't think i've ever been to liverpoolSorry, must be thinking of someone else.
Edit: Yes I was - Illuminati
jonasfjeld
02-18-2007, 08:18 PM
seventh place for me:)
seventh place for me:)You are a whole country all on your own? :huh:
Skweeky
02-18-2007, 10:20 PM
Mon The Dutch!!!!!!!!!! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6360517.stm?ls)
yet another reason to move to the Netherlands soon
I'm sure Nigel would put me up for a while:lol:
It is kinda scary though.
We're kinda trying for a baby just now and I find it disturibing that if I stay and live here my child will never be able to go for an innocent pint and a game of pool when he or she is 13-14, just like I did
There's always kids hanging about here, mangled out of their faces with nowhere else to go.
What do you expect will happen:(
Busyman™
02-18-2007, 11:01 PM
It must be true. It was in the papers.:rolleyes:
Well, I don't care - my competitive juices have been stirred - there cannot be anything at all (at all) in the U.K. that is worse than it is here, and everyone knows it.
We'll sue for last place, if we can find a venue willing to entertain our complaint. ;)
Before I got to your post, I was going to post nearly the exact same thing.
I can't believe the UK, in this respect, is worse than the US.
We have Superman Capitalism and a whole lotta NIMBY over here.
Ava Estelle
02-19-2007, 05:34 AM
The England I saw on a recent visit was nothing like the place I grew up in. My parents used to kick us out of the house in the morning and expected us back before dark, you wouldn't do that now. There were no guns on the streets then, no muggings, and our parents didn't have to constantly worry where we were.
I had two kids in England, and two in Australia, and there is no comparison, my two youngest had a brilliant childhood, when they saw what England was like they couldn't wait to get back here, and were so glad they didn't grow up there.
Barbarossa
02-19-2007, 09:46 AM
It depends where you live. I'd never want to bring a child up in an inner city, but where we are, a small town of population 25000 or thereabouts, it's pretty safe. There's lots of green spaces to play, and plenty of stuff to do.
The England I saw on a recent visit was nothing like the place I grew up in. My parents used to kick us out of the house in the morning and expected us back before dark, you wouldn't do that now. There were no guns on the streets then, no muggings, and our parents didn't have to constantly worry where we were.
I had two kids in England, and two in Australia, and there is no comparison, my two youngest had a brilliant childhood, when they saw what England was like they couldn't wait to get back here, and were so glad they didn't grow up there.
Guns on the street?
In England?
How can this be?
bigboab
02-19-2007, 11:45 AM
The England I saw on a recent visit was nothing like the place I grew up in. My parents used to kick us out of the house in the morning and expected us back before dark, you wouldn't do that now. There were no guns on the streets then, no muggings, and our parents didn't have to constantly worry where we were.
I had two kids in England, and two in Australia, and there is no comparison, my two youngest had a brilliant childhood, when they saw what England was like they couldn't wait to get back here, and were so glad they didn't grow up there.
Guns on the street?
In England?
How can this be?
Not just England. There have been four armed robberies in the last two weeks in the town where I live. The town has a population of about 50,000. Granted it is only about 25 minutes by motorway from Glasgow where gun crime is an everyday occurrence.:(
Busyman™
02-19-2007, 02:12 PM
Guns on the street?
In England?
How can this be?
Not just England. There have been four armed robberies in the last two weeks in the town where I live. The town has a population of about 50,000. Granted it is only about 25 minutes by motorway from Glasgow where gun crime is an everyday occurrence.:(
Wtf?!!
Really. Wtf?!!!:blink:
I am really not trying to be sarcastic.
Mindfukced
02-19-2007, 02:33 PM
Guns on the street?
In England?
How can this be?
Not just England. There have been four armed robberies in the last two weeks in the town where I live. The town has a population of about 50,000. Granted it is only about 25 minutes by motorway from Glasgow where gun crime is an everyday occurrence.:(
I can vouch for that..I was born and raised in Glasgow...back in the early 90's it was mostly knives. Quite a few of my friends were stabbed in our younger days. Since then its guns that has taken over.
England is bad aswell. Most people i know in Birmingham know somebody who carries a gun. I also lived in Mosside, Manchester, and there is a major gun culture there. In East London, most people I know have friends who also carry guns. Quite a few of my friends have bullet wounds which freaks me out.
I feel sorry for the kids today.
Peace,
Mindfukced
Guns on the street?
In England?
How can this be?
Not just England. There have been four armed robberies in the last two weeks in the town where I live. The town has a population of about 50,000. Granted it is only about 25 minutes by motorway from Glasgow where gun crime is an everyday occurrence.:(
just to be clear are we talking about guns here? Armed robbery could potentially refer to everything from mugging with a knife to raiding a bank with sawn off shotguns.
bigboab
02-19-2007, 06:19 PM
Not just England. There have been four armed robberies in the last two weeks in the town where I live. The town has a population of about 50,000. Granted it is only about 25 minutes by motorway from Glasgow where gun crime is an everyday occurrence.:(
just to be clear are we talking about guns here? Armed robbery could potentially refer to everything from mugging with a knife to raiding a bank with sawn off shotguns.
It was hand guns they used.
Busyman™
02-19-2007, 06:26 PM
:wacko: Twilight Zone:wacko:
It must be the "Bush Effect".
He's actually touched Big Tony and infected him, and look what's happened now...
Has he rescinded gun control at all (at all).
Unlike Busyman, I have chosen to wear my sarcasm proudly and openly.
midnight_angel2001uk
02-20-2007, 02:51 AM
As a parent of girls aged 6,8,18 and 23 I can see how unsafe things have become even in the gap between my older daughters and my younger daughters, my younger daughters are never allowed to walk to school...my older two did, the younger ones I like to keep in eyesight range at all times my oldest daughter was given a time to come home, I checked she was where she said she was and allowed her a bit of freedom, with the younger two where I live is a very quiet street, nice neighbours etc but I dont want them playing any further than a couple of doors down cos just around the corner they are out of sight and I feel anything could happen. Is probably just old age catching up with me but I am so much more over protective now...but my whole town has changed, gun crime is rising, you read the local paper and almost every day its full of assaults and muggings etc..there seems to be a total breakdown in society which has to have an effect on the young children growing up...they have more than I ever did except for one thing.......the freedom to be children and to play in safety
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