How safe is downloading

[djkemp1]

hi, i am new to newsgroups and a little paranoid.

is it really safe to download off these, or can individuals be prosecuted if they download copyright material?

also i have newsdemon, do i need anything to make it more secure or is it ok with nothing?

[zot]

Downloading from newsgroups is about as safe as you can possibly be. The only one who even has any possibility of knowing what you are downloading is the NSP, and they don't care what you download, since it is, after all, coming from their own servers.

Binary newsgroup downloading is entirely different from P2P, which gives out your IP address and your shared files (both shared and downloading) to anyone in the network who asks, inclusing the MPAA and RIAA, who run bots to harvest IP addresses and shared files/folders on everyone using the major P2P networks. Keep in mind that when you download a file in eMule or Bittorrent, you are simultaneously uploading the same file to others. The network wouldn't operate otherwise.

Uploading (posting) to newsgroups is another matter entirely. The NSPs will log uploads to make sure if you are a spammer they can go after you. Uploading to a ISP-run news server (the kind that has about 3 days retention) is not the least bit anonymous, since they keep long-term logs, as well as ISPs do not strip out post-ID headers like paid news providers do.

I've never come across a single story about someone who got arrested or sued for posting a copyrighted file, but it's quite possible. If a poster gets reported, usually the worst thing that happens is that the NSP cancels his posting ability. (Then most banned users just create another account!)

But if you are just a beginner, it's best not to try to post files. Leave that to the experienced users.

[djkemp1]

thanks for the reply.

so its quite safe, but why do some groups offer 256bit ssl, is this needed and also i've heard of a program caled secure tunnel, is these types of programs needed if just downloading?

[Broken]

Any unencrypted internet traffic can be intercepted by a third party, i.e. your internet provider. Although it is not widely practiced, and is arguably an invasion of privacy.

If you are super paranoid type, the use of SSL can set your worried mind at ease. For the most part it is an unnecessary add on that can bring an Usenet provider a extra source of income (Giganews) or a selling point to get ahead of the competition (Usenetserver).

[djkemp1]

really, i read a few posts that suggested the only thing ssl encryption does is dtop isp throttling speeds. i am with newsdemon and they don't offer this service. so your saying that if i am just downloading my isp could see what i am downloading, is that right??

[Broken]

If they were so inclined.
It's rare. They are more concerned with the amount of bandwidth you use, not what it is used for.


I was making note to the fact that any unencrypted internet traffic can be intercepted.

[dawsonkm]

Downloading is safer than uploading through your ISP. Broken is absolutely correct.

[dawsonkm]

Downloading is safer than uploading through your ISP. Broken is absolutely correct.

[djkemp1]

so if its encrypted ten the isp can't see anything? the problem is my provider doesn't offer this service.

i thought i read somewhere that the isp can't actually see what your downloading as its not through there servers, and that they only can see the amount that is being downloaded, the only people that can see what is being downloaded is the provider i.e. newsdemon, easynews etc but they don't keep logs. is that right or am i wrong??

[Broken]

Your ISP,
Timer Warner, Adelpia, Cox, AOL, one of the Bells, whomever can intercept the packets of data that is sent over the connection that they provide to you. If these packets are not encrypted, then yes they could see what you are doing.

They, for the most part don't give a flying fuck unless you are becoming a burden on their network (heavy downloading/uploading).

Now, are they gonna turn you over to the local authorities for downloading copyrighted material? No. It's not their copyright to enforce. But it is conceivable, and I have read reports where the ISP has taken it upon them selfs to issue warnings, listing downloaded material. These are usually an attempt to get you to use less bandwidth, more than anything else. Bandwidth is expensive to create and it is in their best interest if they can get you to use as little as possible.

What you are thinking of is the MPAA/RIAA/ and other copyright holders in general. No, they can not see what you download like on P2P networks. No one has ever been sued for downloading off Usenet, their is no way for these outside parties to get into the loop.

SSL encryption is only necessary if you have had problems with your ISP in the past. SSL is to hide what you are doing from them, for whatever reason. Whither it is because they are using some type of traffic shaping tools, or you just don't trust them to keep their noses out of your business. In all reality, most don't care.

[djkemp1]

thanks Broken you have een a great help, you have cleared up that for me an i now understand, cheers :-)

[popopot]

How safe is it to download from work through their proxy? I don't mean downloading material but I mean in terms of work noticing that you are downloading from newsgroups. I remember when some people got caught on KaZaa because of the upload traffic that was generated leaving work. It was that data leaving work that was noticed and not the downloaded data. Therefore, because I am only downloading from newsgroups, and not uploading, will it be safe? I already download large chunks of data (music from AllOfMP3, iso images of linux, etc) and it has gone unnoticed. Plus, I have a SSL account with my newsgroup provider, so would that help?

Also, would the same be true for IRC? I haven't really used that yet but I am looking into it.

Cheers.

[Broken]

Anyone that would tell you that downloading 'stuff' at work is a good idea is an ignorant fool. And anyone that does it deserves what they get.

It's not your computer, it's not your connection. There is no telling what is really going on there in the background. There is all kinds of tools a half decent IT guy can use to see if you're dicking around. If you value your position at all, don't do it. Don't use Usenet, don't use IRC, don't use Kazaa... just don't do it.

I don't think anyone can give you better advice than that.

[popopot]

Anyone that would tell you that downloading 'stuff' at work is a good idea is an ignorant fool. And anyone that does it deserves what they get.

It's not your computer, it's not your connection. There is no telling what is really going on there in the background. There is all kinds of tools a half decent IT guy can use to see if you're dicking around. If you value your position at all, don't do it. Don't use Usenet, don't use IRC, don't use Kazaa... just don't do it.

I don't think anyone can give you better advice than that.


Fair enough. Deep down I knew that already but I was just hoping there was safe way. I better upgrade my home broadband then.

Thanks.

[A_T]

Any unencrypted internet traffic can be intercepted by a third party, i.e. your internet provider. Although it is not widely practiced, and is arguably an invasion of privacy.

If you are super paranoid type, the use of SSL can set your worried mind at ease. For the most part it is an unnecessary add on that can bring an Usenet provider a extra source of income (Giganews) or a selling point to get ahead of the competition (Usenetserver).

SSL is more that that. Many ISPs will throttle traffic on usenet. SSL will encrypt your traffic and in many cases get round ISP restrictions.

[djkemp1]

has anyone encountered ISP providers actually spying on what you are downloading?

does anyone know the legalities in uk? i heard that you can get prosecuted for uploading but not downloading, is that true?

i heard that newsdemon are looking into ssl for their systems, anyone know if this is true or just a rumour?

thanks guys

[Broken]

Any unencrypted internet traffic can be intercepted by a third party, i.e. your internet provider. Although it is not widely practiced, and is arguably an invasion of privacy.

If you are super paranoid type, the use of SSL can set your worried mind at ease. For the most part it is an unnecessary add on that can bring an Usenet provider a extra source of income (Giganews) or a selling point to get ahead of the competition (Usenetserver).

SSL is more that that. Many ISPs will throttle traffic on usenet. SSL will encrypt your traffic and in many cases get round ISP restrictions.

Yep, mentioned that.



SSL encryption is only necessary if you have had problems with your ISP in the past. SSL is to hide what you are doing from them, for whatever reason. Whither it is because they are using some type of traffic shaping tools, or you just don't trust them to keep their noses out of your business. In all reality, most don't care.

[djkemp1]

has anyone encountered ISP providers actually spying on what you are downloading?

does anyone know the legalities in uk? i heard that you can get prosecuted for uploading but not downloading, is that true?

thanks guys

just wondered if anyone knew the answers to some of these questions?

[Broken]

has anyone encountered ISP providers actually spying on what you are downloading?

does anyone know the legalities in uk? i heard that you can get prosecuted for uploading but not downloading, is that true?

thanks guys

just wondered if anyone knew the answers to some of these questions?

Comcast, a large US ISP did some spying not not long ago.
Link Comcast spying (http://www.glencoe.com/norton/online/ezine/display_article.phtml?id=188)




I can't advise you on UK law.
In the US the RIAA/MPAA will not file a case against you in civil court because it would hard to prove any significant losses on their part from an individual downloading only. Plus if you are not sharing, they have no reason or way to obtain your information in the first place.

But that isn't to say that downloading copyrighted material isn't illegal. It's conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement (newer law) . But the MPAA/RIAA can't charge you with a crime in criminal court. It'd have to be the FBI, and this whole mess is something they have stayed out of but at the top levels (topsites).

[thegman24]

Downloading IS safer than uploading, and I very have been posting for a number of years. Can anybody offer some examples (IE horror stories) otherwise, to give a more well rounded view?? -The G Man

[St0ry]

Usenet is about as safe as you can get since most premium providers only keep logs for 24-48 hours, and most providers don't record what you download only how much you download. Add to that some providers are starting to support SSL, Giganews and UNS, your ISP doesn't know what it is you're downloading/uploading, only you and your Usenet provider. Correct me if I'm wrong on that last part.

I use UNS and this is from their website:

At Usenetserver.com, it is our goal to keep your personal information as private as possible. Our news servers remove the X-TRACE header and NNTP-posting-host header, thereby removing where you posted from. Other users only see from which UNS server you posted. We also do not monitor what you download. We only monitor how much you download in accordance to your chosen account. Please understand that we only see byte data and nothing else.

[djkemp1]

thanks for the info, does anyone know if any individuals have ever been in trouble for downloading off of newsgroups. i don't download much stuff anyway, but its just nice to know.

also i use newsdemon, does anyone know about there privacy policy? and alos whether they will be getting ssl in the future?

[knight76]

I've never heard of anybody getting in trouble for downloading from newsgroups. I think the financial outlay for the authorities to catch and prosecute individuals would be restrictive to just catch individual offenders.

I have however heard of a workmate getting a nice email from their ISP. It was an email they received from paramount or one of the other big movie studios identifying their IP and advising them this is illegal yada yada. The ISP passed it on.

I think newsgroups are pretty safe. There was a torrent tracker I was on and noticed that in each thread for a torrent it listed who exactly was downloading that torrent. That's a little scary.

[djkemp1]

you say your friend got an email, but how would paramount know he was downloading films etc as i didn't think they could see what u download?

[St0ry]

If you're this paranoid about downloading then just go out and buy the DVDs/Cds.

[Broken]

i believe your questions have been answered several times djkep1.



the best answer is so far...


If you're this paranoid about downloading then just go out and buy the DVDs/Cds.

[webe123]

you say your friend got an email, but how would paramount know he was downloading films etc as i didn't think they could see what u download?



He never said it was newsgroups that he was downloading from....He never said WHAT program he got the film from. So you may be reading too much into what he said.


It was probably Bit Torrent or some other p2p app...those are REAL EASY to get an IP from!

[djkemp1]

cheers guys, sorry to go over everything a few times just wanted a good understanding of it all.

thanks

[knight76]

It was a torrent site he was downloading from. Certainly not usenet.

Needless to say he hasnt downloaded again so I guess the email worked.

[webe123]

It was a torrent site he was downloading from. Certainly not usenet.

Needless to say he hasnt downloaded again so I guess the email worked.


Well then THAT explains it. Bit Torrent may be the most popular way of getting files, but it is also the riskiest!

It is very easy to obtain an IP from Bit Torrent. But most folks use it because it is fast and free.

[knight76]

Whats that saying, if something is too good to be true it probably is?

I stick to downloading only from private torrent sites that are not too easy to join. But I always check Newzbin first to see if what I am after is on usenet.

[link2009]

knight, I agree, I do the same ;). But, to be honest, no torrent sites are private enough, unless you're hosting your own tracker ;).

[webe123]

Whats that saying, if something is too good to be true it probably is?

I stick to downloading only from private torrent sites that are not too easy to join. But I always check Newzbin first to see if what I am after is on usenet.


Lokitorrent was not too easy to join either,nor was Elitetorrents! But they STILL were raided. So private torrent sites are not as safe as you may think.

Newsgroups are far safer than even private torrent sites.

[link2009]

Oh no...webe123, I'm so sorry to break it to you...but...Lokitorrents was never raided lol...I think you stuck with the old old out-dated story. The owner gave it up, nothing happened, it was a scheme that worked out in the end...and they ended up with over $30,000...

[webe123]

Oh no...webe123, I'm so sorry to break it to you...but...Lokitorrents was never raided lol...I think you stuck with the old old out-dated story. The owner gave it up, nothing happened, it was a scheme that worked out in the end...and they ended up with over $30,000...


Do you have any links to prove what you are saying?? The last I heard, it WAS raided by the FBI and the owner was in serious legal trouble. All I could find was this Slyck link about their legal troubles, so if you have a link stating otherwise...post it!

http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8712&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

It said they had to raise 30,000.00 a month for legal bills....it does not say a thing in the forums about it being fake...so where is your proof?

If it was a FAKE STORY... it sure fooled a LOT of people.

And you forget something... even IF the Loki torrent story was not true, the Elite torrents story certianly was true!

http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2006/11/shawn-hogan-motion-to-dismiss-based-on.html

So as I said in the FIRST PLACE....torrents are NOT AS SAFE AS NEWSGROUPS! Period.

[Broken]

Oh no...webe123, I'm so sorry to break it to you...but...Lokitorrents was never raided lol...I think you stuck with the old old out-dated story. The owner gave it up, nothing happened, it was a scheme that worked out in the end...and they ended up with over $30,000...


Do you have any links to prove what you are saying?? The last I heard, it WAS raided by the FBI and the owner was in serious legal trouble. All I could find was this Slyck link about their legal troubles, so if you have a link stating otherwise...post it!

http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8712&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

It said they had to raise 30,000.00 a month for legal bills....it does not say a thing in the forums about it being fake...so where is your proof?

If it was a FAKE STORY... it sure fooled a LOT of people.



The true fate of Loki torrents is still unknown.
I myself still believe Weber pocketed the cash.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LokiTorrent

[webe123]

Do you have any links to prove what you are saying?? The last I heard, it WAS raided by the FBI and the owner was in serious legal trouble. All I could find was this Slyck link about their legal troubles, so if you have a link stating otherwise...post it!

http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8712&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

It said they had to raise 30,000.00 a month for legal bills....it does not say a thing in the forums about it being fake...so where is your proof?

If it was a FAKE STORY... it sure fooled a LOT of people.



The true fate of Loki torrents is still unknown.
I myself still believe Weber pocketed the cash.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LokiTorrent

From the link you gave:
A couple of weeks after the shutdown, news hit that the news of the MPAA lawsuit was not a hoax after all[15][16], citing court documents[17][18], complete with United States District Judge David C. Godbey's signature as proof.

That takes care of it NOT being a FAKE story!

As to the funds and where they went?

However, to this day, it is unknown whether Webber kept the member-donated funds for himself, or if all of the money was taken by the MPAA.

and the Elite Torrents story definately is TRUE!

So as I said before, private Bit Torrent sites are not as safe as some want to believe they are.

[Maryjane]

Viruses are everywhere unless u have a good antivirus....u r gone.....

[djkemp1]

what was the relevance of that last post?

[knight76]

I think Maryjane was just pointing out that viruses are everywhere and downloading from any place isnt "safe". I take this topic to be discussing how safe downloading is judged against the likelyhood of the FBI bashing down your door and hauling you away at 3am.

[webe123]

I think Maryjane was just pointing out that viruses are everywhere and downloading from any place isnt "safe". I take this topic to be discussing how safe downloading is judged against the likelyhood of the FBI bashing down your door and hauling you away at 3am.



Well I took the post as asking are downloading from newsgroups "safe" from the likes of the MPAA/RIAA or FBI,etc.

I never thought it was about computer viruses! That is another matter entirely.

[cmitch525]

If people agree newsgroups are the safest to download from (in regards to RIAA/MPAA) what would be 2nd?

[webe123]

If people agree newsgroups are the safest to download from (in regards to RIAA/MPAA) what would be 2nd?

I don't know......mabye IRC?

It would probably be something that is harder for the average joe to learn than a p2p program like kazaa.

The more popular a network becomes...the more likely it is as a target for the media mafia.

[djkemp1]

so whats the view from everyone, can newsgroups stay safe?? or will they get like P2P's are now and bit torrent?

what about this new law in the US, will that include newsgroups being spied on?

im currently in the UK, does anyone know if the laws here are changing so authoritis can spy? it just seems no one will have any privacy

[BigH]

techno-wise I'm pretty ignorant in this area, but I was always under the impression that only up-loaders can be caught.

unless you're saying that people who download large amounts of data will be picked on - if so, what about 40D and the new BBC service? (downloading legitimate material)

[stove]

downloading is perfectly safe. :happy:

illegal downloading will never be safe. :naughty:

[djkemp1]

has anyone ever been prosecuted for just downloading material off of newsgroups?

could they be in the future?

[nofx210]

downloading is fine its the uploading that gets people in trouble

[Cpugeni]

Newsgroups in my opinion are the safest method of downloading material, and if you use SSL then its even safer!

As well as being the safest, it is the fatest method too... I would never go back to P2P, ever!

Another newish thing I've seen is utilising rapidshare for distributing material... Thats fast too

[plumb1e]

Giganews all the way for me he he, SSL encription!

[djkemp1]

i have newsdemon but as of yet they aren't offering ssl, do you think that in the near future they will all be offering it?

[cnack]

AFAIK, people downloading aren't being prosecuted, it's people who are uploading. This would include P2P networks like bittorrent, where you have to upload as you're downloading. Usenet seems to be safe for the moment *crosses fingers*

[djkemp1]

yeah seems to be the safest so far and reliable, and like other people have said there is no way 3rd party companies can spy on whatever your downloading.

do you think it would ever become unsafe then? as its the oldest form of file sharing and they haven't gone after people yet? or would it be the server providers that they would go after?

[Kuberr]

Yeah it seems to be safe, for now. Usenet servers keeps logs for spamming usually, but they dispose of 'em within 72 hours or so.

[djkemp1]

yeah thats what i heard, hopefully it will always stay safe for the users

[Death_Noodle]

Yup, definatly seems safe to me.