Gun's - Good Or Bad?

[crazy_billy_bats]

I would just like to know peoples opinions.

Personally, i think they are bad, and cause nothing but hurt, pain, agression and sadness.

And what about everyone else?

[Tikibonbon]

I, as an avid sportsman do not experiene these things, then again i have taken steps in the proper handling of guns so as not to. now these people who just by guns to "protect" their family and just put it under their pillow, or because their favorite music personality portrays an image of being cool by having one, well those are a different matter. and before i get flamed for my liking of the hunt, please understand it is more than just killing an animal, but it is a chance to truely enjoy nature in a way the majority of people never have the chance to do.

p.s., don't automobiles cause more hurt, pain, aggresion, and sadness on a daily basis?

[Infested Cats]

A gun is only as bad as the person using it. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

[chalice]

Bad. Someone could lose an eye.
Check out Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine if you haven't already.

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by chalice@5 June 2003 - 12:37

Check out Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine if you haven't already.
excellent film that would make anyone see the horrors of weapons.
I reccomend it to anyone.

[TheDave]

Originally posted by Infested Cats@5 June 2003 - 12:37
A gun is only as bad as the person using it. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
but it only needs a second to kill someone you cant change your mind if you kill someone
and we'll all get that thought sometime in our lives

[WeeMouse]

if they are only being used to hurt or kill, from my point of view they are bad.

Recreational shooting is ok cos nothings actually being killed.

Still doesn't mean i like guns tho, whether they're good or bad.

[jetje]

Originally posted by WeeMouse@5 June 2003 - 14:58
Recreational shooting is ok cos nothings actually being killed.
ever thought about the polution the lead brings into it's enviroment ;)

[crazy_billy_bats]

weemouse (and everyone else!), do you agree with me, tho, that they are produced only for the express purpose to destroy? ( said this in censorship thread btw!!)

[WeeMouse]

Guns are weapons that are made to destroy..

As long as the only thing that gets shot at is a big paper target then let them have their guns, but I would much prefer it if there were no guns.

Somebody's probably gonna say now "WeeMouse, you do archery and the longbow was made to destroy."

That is true, but all longbow archery in the UK is done using big straw targets. Bow-hunting in the Uk is illegal, as is the wielding of a readied bow outside of an official shooting ground.

And I have never seen a gang hanging about a street corner holding a longbow and arrows. :lol:

[Tikibonbon]

in america there is a huge collection of bow hunters

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Tikibonbon@5 June 2003 - 13:36
I, as an avid sportsman do not experiene these things, then again i have taken steps in the proper handling of guns so as not to. now these people who just by guns to "protect" their family and just put it under their pillow, or because their favorite music personality portrays an image of being cool by having one, well those are a different matter. and before i get flamed for my liking of the hunt, please understand it is more than just killing an animal, but it is a chance to truely enjoy nature in a way the majority of people never have the chance to do.

p.s., don't automobiles cause more hurt, pain, aggresion, and sadness on a daily basis?
Well, you had a point until you meandered into illogic with cars. This is like highschool level thinking, at best.

If you have a valid argument, present it and let the chips fall where they may, don't grasp at straw horses to justify yourself, it degrades credibility.

My theory is this. If I really have to explain the difference to you, between guns and cars, then I have just wasted my time, as you just don't "get it".

I believe that most people who present this argument are engaging in "intellectual dishonesty". They use this to justify, to others, their behavior, knowing full well the fallacy in logic. These people irritate me.


BTW, you'd better get going, it is a long walk to work.

[nahan]

Why do I bother.Guns are also produced for and with protection in mind.
If we didnt need protection we wouldnt need guns.

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by hobbes@5 June 2003 - 13:15


If you have a valid argument, present it and let the chips fall where they may, don't grasp at straw horses to justify yourself, it degrades credibility.

My theory is this. If I really have to explain the difference to you, between guns and cars, then I have just wasted my time, as you just don't "get it".

I believe that most people who present this argument are engaging in "intellectual dishonesty". They use this to justify, to others, their behavior, knowing full well the fallacy in logic. These people irritate me.


BTW, you'd better get going, it is a long walk to work.
thanks hobbes.

I think of course there is room for intelligent debate here, but it is relatively simple, to me, even a child can see it, and i hope they do, because it is them (and their mentality) that i think we need to mould, to stop this madness at the moment.
Start with the big companies, more and more education in school.....

and well, the US could go a long way by making the "first step", so to speak, in actually making a move and doing something.

[Tikibonbon]

sorry to offend you there sir, hate for us "intellectually dishonesty" folk to impede on your life. anyway i'm just saying that, those feeling by caused people being shot on purpose, accident, or what have you. say your friend had an accident and was shot, would you be anyless hurt, pained or sad if they died in a car accident? no, because your friend is gone. but, more people are killed in auto accidents by far each year than by guns, but we come down hard on guns while maintaining a full tank of gas at all times.

btw: the topic starter asked for opinions, so if you want to lambast me for having an opinion, the problem lies not with me.

[TheDave]

if you want a gun get an airgun they are fun and its really hard to kill someone with. i can hit a can with a g10 from 20 metres. (just wanted to brag but the opportunity never came-up so i did it luncheon meat stylee)

[crazy_billy_bats]

but wont less people die if there are less guns?

isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?

[TheDave]

the problem is. when one person has a gun they are more powerful than his nieghbours/rivals/whatever so then they need a gun and it just snowballs. the police should be working to take them off the streets

[nahan]

Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 14:26
but wont less people die if there are less guns?

isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
Yes ,in a perfect world though.

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by nahan@5 June 2003 - 13:30

Yes ,in a perfect world though.
i dont think this would make it perfect as such, more a world where there are less deaths, people would still destroy eachother, but nowhere near on the scale of nowadays. therefore, a much much better world IMO

its sad that this would just take.....decades, i suppose people??

[chalice]

Hobbes,
haven't you wasted your time anyway by scrutinising Tikibonbon's logic?
Billy's original query was a very straightfoward one... Guns- Good or bad.
Now Tik's closing statement may have been forgivably naive but at least he posted on topic.
It serves no purpose in this argument to highlight another member's well-intentioned mistakes
So what's it gonna be Hobbes, good or bad?
I appreciate your skills as a debator but don't you think that your response was rather pedantic?

[jetje]

Originally posted by nahan@5 June 2003 - 15:19
Why do I bother.Guns are also produced for and with protection in mind.
If we didnt need protection we wouldnt need guns.
condoms are for protections... guns only shoot holes in them... away your protection...


the only good gun is a water pistol

btw there was some sense in the remark of Infested cats... guns don't kill people people kill people..
to bad it guns make it for some people more easy...

[crazy_billy_bats]

im glad im not alone in my views....

we may have hope yet to rid this world of these disgusting weapons.

then again, maybe there is no hope, as thousands of these things are being produced and sold(by governments as well i might add, as im sure you are all aware) every day.

time will tell, i suppose.

[ilw]

In people under 20 in the US, gun related death is the second biggest killer to car accidents and in some states gun related deaths actually exceed car accidents.

[nahan]

Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats+5 June 2003 - 14:33--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (crazy_billy_bats @ 5 June 2003 - 14:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--nahan@5 June 2003 - 13:30

Yes ,in a perfect world though.
i dont think this would make it perfect as such, more a world where there are less deaths, people would still destroy eachother, but nowhere near on the scale of nowadays. therefore, a much much better world IMO

its sad that this would just take.....decades, i suppose people?? [/b][/quote]
If there was no guns then some other wepon would be substituted.
For those who only wish harm on others.

[clocker]

Originally posted by nahan+5 June 2003 - 07:30--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nahan @ 5 June 2003 - 07:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 14:26
but wont less people die if there are less guns?

isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
Yes ,in a perfect world though. [/b][/quote]
My suggestion would be, until we achieve that perfect world, make all guns look like this...

http://www.aardsy.com/pics/pic298.jpg

Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by clocker+5 June 2003 - 13:38--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 5 June 2003 - 13:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -nahan@5 June 2003 - 07:30
<!--QuoteBegin--crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 14:26
but wont less people die if there are less guns?

isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
Yes ,in a perfect world though.
My suggestion would be, until we achieve that perfect world, make all guns look like this...

http://www.aardsy.com/pics/pic298.jpg

Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P [/b][/quote]
:lol:

need a bit of light-heartedness....
i agree, that would be ok &#33;&#33;

but well, it isnt an ideal world is it?
there are simply too many guns and too many idiots that dont know what to do with them (ie - throw them in the bin or decommision them, as im sure if u put it in your bin someone would take it and use it)

[TheDave]

blame the media, havent you all seen bowling for columbine

[nahan]

Originally posted by ilw@5 June 2003 - 14:36
In people under 20 in the US, gun related death is the second biggest killer to car accidents and in some states gun related deaths actually exceed car accidents.
And in how many of these cases were drugs and alcohol invovled.
Directly and indirectly.

[jetje]

Originally posted by nahan+5 June 2003 - 15:44--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nahan @ 5 June 2003 - 15:44)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ilw@5 June 2003 - 14:36
In people under 20 in the US, gun related death is the second biggest killer to car accidents and in some states gun related deaths actually exceed car accidents.
And in how many of these cases were drugs and alcohol invovled.
Directly and indirectly. [/b][/quote]
But the question is would they have done it that easy if the y hadn&#39;t have a gun within reach of hand...

If you don&#39;t have a gun you can&#39;t shoot... &#33;

[clocker]

Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats+5 June 2003 - 07:41--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (crazy_billy_bats @ 5 June 2003 - 07:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -clocker@5 June 2003 - 13:38

Originally posted by -nahan@5 June 2003 - 07:30
<!--QuoteBegin--crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 14:26
but wont less people die if there are less guns?

isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
Yes ,in a perfect world though.
My suggestion would be, until we achieve that perfect world, make all guns look like this...

http://www.aardsy.com/pics/pic298.jpg

Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P
:lol:

need a bit of light-heartedness....
i agree, that would be ok &#33;&#33;

but well, it isnt an ideal world is it?
there are simply too many guns and too many idiots that dont know what to do with them (ie - throw them in the bin or decommision them, as im sure if u put it in your bin someone would take it and use it) [/b][/quote]
I wasn&#39;t being light-hearted.

I was serious.
If guns looked silly/embarrassing instead of like something that the Terminator would brandish, I think they&#39;d lose a lot of their appeal.

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by clocker@5 June 2003 - 13:52

I wasn&#39;t being light-hearted.

I was serious.
If guns looked silly/embarrassing instead of like something that the Terminator would brandish, I think they&#39;d lose a lot of their appeal.
well ok then, dont post a picture of a penis-shaped gun next time then please.
i consider that, including the line
"Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P "
light hearted.

[nahan]

This is like saying knives are bad and should be banned.

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by jetje@5 June 2003 - 13:51

But the question is would they have done it that easy if the y hadn&#39;t have a gun within reach of hand...

If you don&#39;t have a gun you can&#39;t shoot... &#33;
This is as simply as it can be put at the moment......how can anyone argue against that?
cant everyone just admit that they are bad?
it is plainly obvious to me, why not to others, regardless of what country they come from?&#33;

[nahan]

They are equally good .

[clocker]

Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 07:55

well ok then, dont post a picture of a penis-shaped gun next time then please.
i consider that, including the line
"Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out...&nbsp; :P "
light hearted.
Why not post a picture of the penis gun?
Do you find it more offensive than Nahan&#39;s sigpic?

"maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P " is not light-hearted, it&#39;s true.

Do you think that if this
http://shop.innercite.com/giftsdirect/media/24raggetyannchecked_lg.jpg
fired bullets, that Nahan would have it featured as his signature along with the phrase "Llook at me"?

I don&#39;t.

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by clocker@5 June 2003 - 14:26

Do you find it more offensive than Nahan&#39;s sigpic?


no i said i didnt find it offensive i found it light-hearted.

anyway i dont think your contribution had much to say about the serious topic that is gun-culture nowadays.
Penis-shaped guns are a ridiculous alternative to normal guns (if it was an alternative you were proposing), and can only be seen as some form of a joke, however not being funny in the slightest.

a (normal) alternative to me is to have no guns at all, never mind penis-shaped ones, then no one would have the stigma that surrounds producing a weapon shaped like male genetalia.
or not as many people would be dead.
but then again, maybe you were just joking.

[clocker]

CBB,
You insist on missing the point don&#39;t you?

I think that a big part of the love affair with weaponry is that it looks so damn cool. There is a lot of testosterone and macho posturing tied up in waving around a weapon that looks just like James Bond&#39;s.
If guns looked like penises or Raggety Ann then this component of the attraction would be gone.
See?

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by clocker@5 June 2003 - 14:47
CBB,
You insist on missing the point don&#39;t you?

I think that a big part of the love affair with weaponry is that it looks so damn cool. There is a lot of testosterone and macho posturing tied up in waving around a weapon that looks just like James Bond&#39;s.
If guns looked like penises or Raggety Ann then this component of the attraction would be gone.
See?
no i dont insist on missing anything, sorry to dissapoint you.

i agree of course the attraction of holding a weapon etc is a big part of it, however there was still no need to post a picture of a penis shaped gun.

you could have made this point much earlier, but insisted in continuing on, frankly being quite rude to me (again).

oh well id rather go and talk about something else now, i dont want to argue with u, i would rather talk about the real implications of guns rather than their shape or the machoness that surrounds them.

to me, a more valid point is that we need to go to the companies that produce the weapons, start there, we have to start somewhere.

[crazy_billy_bats]

does no one else think that it is possible (some way)to try and bring down the huge weapons-producing companies?

i would like to hear ways as im not sure myself&#33;&#33;&#33;

[clocker]

You think I was rude to you?

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by clocker@5 June 2003 - 15:02
You think I was rude to you?
yes. besides this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with that, so we can stop it here.

dont you have an idea as to how people can bring down huge weapons companies?
doesnt this sound logical to anyone?

[ck-uk]

Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 15:58
does no one else think that it is possible (some way)to try and bring down the huge weapons-producing companies?

i would like to hear ways as im not sure myself&#33;&#33;&#33;
ye&#39; y dont u get a petition together ..u could take on the internation arms dealers aswell :P

[crazy_billy_bats]

yeah but then again man....its only signatures isnt it?
the governments are still selling their weapons.
power to the people???&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


*EDIT*
PS - thanks cosmok, i needed someone who would talk sensibly in here and not post silly pictures &#33;&#33;&#33;

[insanebassman]

Much like a good knife, or baseball bat... or even a sword, they are not bad. Inherently, a gun is an inanimate object incapable of either god or bad until placed into the hands of someone with very little brain. Then the activity in the potential of that pairing becomes bad, not the gun.

rephrase the question...

I am Pro-Gun all the way.

then again, I am also for thining the herd&#33;

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by insanebassman@5 June 2003 - 15:35
Much like a good knife, or baseball bat... or even a sword, they are not bad. Inherently, a gun is an inanimate object incapable of either god or bad until placed into the hands of someone with very little brain. Then the activity in the potential of that pairing becomes bad, not the gun.

rephrase the question...

I am Pro-Gun all the way.

then again, I am also for thining the herd&#33;
yeah i agree with your point but....

but take out the "middle-man" as it were.... ie - the gun.

then there is no need for there to be any hurt on any side.
i propose to get rid of them all - then there is no need for stupid people to use them, they can go and find a sword instead (which i presume is actually harder to find nowadays than a gun)

dont u think they only cause bad things? as i mentioned earlier - destruction?

[insanebassman]

When I hunt, and protect my family, guns are a very posative thing. I have 2 semi autos right now, and they have done no harm.
I also have a full daisho of carbon spring steel and a very nice and useful Katana of high carbon spring steel. My bow (becoming my preferred hunting weapon) is as dangerous as my guns, and more so when used properly. I also have a 6 foot spear and bo staff which are quite deadly when applied properly. My collection of 3 dozen plus knives are just as effective, up to 27 feet.

So, what makes a gun so bad?

Were I to lose it, and go nuts, I would not use a gun. Knives, the bow, my swords, wakazashi and tanto are so quiet. Almost peaceful. No one could hear, and the effect is so much more violent. The sword is a personal weapon.

The world is full of weapons, the most dangerous of which is the human mind&#33;

[crazy_billy_bats]

i think u r "nutz" bassman &#33;&#33;&#33;

is there any need for that many weapons? i mean, really?

possibly in the event of dozons of raving maniacs coming into your house at night, which is what the media would have us believe...

never happened to me tho, and urself?
personally i sleep with no weapons in my house and feel just as safe as i would with a gun - in fact i would be shitting it incase someone took it while i was sleeping and shot me.
then again, there is no gun culture where i live. America is sad because of this IMO.
the world would be a much safer (and therefore better) place to live (& die, whether it be by gun, bus, car, bomb, whatever).
its simple: more human beings are likely to die with guns in this world....
who can argue against that?

[insanebassman]

Read my sig Crazy_Billy

I do not mind human death. We all die, and so will I. (sounds like good lyrics&#33;) I have had about 12 people close to me die either through natural causes or violence. I do know that in at least 20 cases, were it not for a combination of weaponry, martial arts skill and a gun (the gun 3 times) I would be worm food. I grew up on the bad sides of Ft. Worth Texas, Dallas Texas and Houston Texas. I have been stabbed 3 times, shot once and received a concussion from a fight with 4 wannabe gangsters all of whom I incapacitated.

Yeah, I feel safe with the existance of guns.

Now, you can blame my affinity for my past and feel good that you have a reason&#33;

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by insanebassman@5 June 2003 - 16:14

I do not mind human death. We all die, and so will I. (sounds like good lyrics&#33;) I have had about 12 people close to me die either through natural causes or
Now, you can blame my affinity for my past and feel good that you have a reason&#33;
i dont blame anyone for their past man, as long as they change ways that have been bad in their life.
ive wanted to know what it feels like to get shot (i hope u know what i mean&#33;&#33;), just the pain involved, i mean, can u describe it to me?

[insanebassman]

When I got hit, it was a searing heat and impact, like I got hit with a baseball out af a cannon. I was hit in my left clavicle (collar bone). It was an excrutiating pain all down my left side for an instant, then my left arm wen completely dead. I broke out in sweats and felt like I was seriously hopped up. The world reeled and I got tunnel vision. The guy who shot me stared at me for a few minutes, as shocked as me. I took the gun from him (a derringer) and used my good arm to beat the shit out of him before I passed out. (That is what my brother Cody said... after the tunnel vision, I lost it.) When I woke up, I felt like my left pectoral region, and the delt region on my back, as well as my left arm and entire head had been run over by a tractor repeatedly. The bullet riccocheted out of the same hole it entered through and was a small calliber. My brother was an EMT and had access to things that normal people do not. He took care of me for the week it took to recover from the initial shock. ]

I do not recomend the experience, nor do I want to repeat it. I cried lik a bitch from taking even a deep breath for a week...

[thegroggman]

Hmm...now isnt this the touch subject. I personally do not own any guns. Nor do I beleive I will ever have one, or have the need to yield one. Others may feel differently. Do I think the world will be a safer place without guns? Possibly...but maybe not. Human beings have the tendancy to always find new and more destructive ways to harm each other...whether it be primitive spears...all the way up to the nuclear bomb. The human race as a whole is a very destructive lot. Do I think that guns should be outlawed? Hmmm...thats a tough question. For personal use...no. I beleive that more preventive measures should be taking to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people. For instance in the U.S. a few years ago, the N.R.A. was trying to prevent companies from putting caps on their guns which prevented them from accidentally misfiring. Say if a child were to get ahold of it. Now, why would they do such a thing? I beleive they have the right to have a gun if they want...but they also need to take precautions, and hold some responsibilites for these...well...weapons. Thats what they are. If anyone says guns are used for anything aside from maim or murder...they are blatantly lying. The dream of a world without guns is intriguing, but ultimitely futile. Gun compaines have such strong ties to the govts that they run under, that it would almost be impossible to topple them. As for guns for...say military use. It is hard to justify, the loss...of really any life. But...guns in war seem to be a nesacary evil. I wished to God that there was no need for these monstrosities...but in our society...like everything else they have their place. So the best that we can hope for is that people use this &#39;power&#39; in the most responsible way possible. Again...I do not endorse guns, or their use. I do not beleive people have any reason to have one, but who am I to govern what you do?

[crazy_billy_bats]

thanks groggster, was waiting in anticipation for that one :rolleyes:

i agree with you on pretty much every level there, i realise it really is only a futile dream for us to think that society will one day....survive(?) without guns, although i have to maintain that there has to be something done, they are getting out of hand, especially in america.
Its been mentioned here before, Michael Moore&#39;s bowling for columbine is an excellent portrayal of gun violence in america....it certainly opened my eyes.
The stark difference between the canadians and the people across the river (maybe not river&#33;) in Detroit (right?) is there for all to see....
whats the difference? cultures?
i cant say i know the american culture too well, but the canadians like left their doors unlocked all day....he walked up and opened peoples doors during the day....
cant we have a society like that were people dont live in fear of some freak weilding a gun?
i dont live in that fear, but it seems to me an increasing amount of people are giving into the media paranoia surrounding criminals, etc......
its just sad in my view, i hope one day we will see an end to it all.

[jetje]

Ban Guns, powerfull companies...
Where have i heard that before.. weren&#39;t the cigarett companies powerfull once...
Look at them now, theget sued all over the way. Cigarette smoking is forbidden almost all over the world and it&#39;s almost a crime if someone sees you smoking.

What i don&#39;t understand in the US of A they sew the cigarette companies because people die, why no one started a law suit against a weapon company by which weapon someone is heavilly injured or killed...

Sure that would be a good start to make weapons more expansive and in the end maybe make it almost unproffitable to make weapons.

All laywers from the US of A start reading this:

SUE THE WEAPON INDUSTRY... you will make a fortune, it&#39;s a sure win thing... B)

[ilw]

I&#39;m pretty sure someone already has tried to sue, I remember reading something about it. But the companies won, reasons being that they weren&#39;t responsible for how guns are used and also hte fact that most guns used for criminal purposes were either stolen or otherwise illegally obtained.

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by jetje@5 June 2003 - 19:43
Ban Guns, powerfull companies...
Where have i heard that before.. weren&#39;t the cigarett companies powerfull once...
Look at them now, theget sued all over the way. Cigarette smoking is forbidden almost all over the world and it&#39;s almost a crime if someone sees you smoking.

What i don&#39;t understand in the US of A they sew the cigarette companies because people die, why no one started a law suit against a weapon company by which weapon someone is heavilly injured or killed...

Sure that would be a good start to make weapons more expansive and in the end maybe make it almost unproffitable to make weapons.

All laywers from the US of A start reading this:

SUE THE WEAPON INDUSTRY... you will make a fortune, it&#39;s a sure win thing... B)
Chris Rock (ok bad example but i love what he says about this) says in his stand-up that each bullet should cost &#036;5,000.
here here.
thats a start at least.
i see what u mean jetje, those tobacco companies are getting sued for literally billions of dollars, i just hope and pray that one day the same fate becomes the large corporations producing weapons.

and i think it is possible as the youth of today have a different look on things - if somewhat tainted by society and its culture.

i just wish for less death....
and its simple that less guns mean less death, i mean, really, a child can understand that, cant he? why cant we?

[clocker]

Originally posted by jetje@5 June 2003 - 13:43


All laywers from the US of A start reading this:

SUE THE WEAPON INDUSTRY... you will make a fortune, it&#39;s a sure win thing... B)
Nice thought Jetje, but wrong.

Legislation is currently before Congress which would indemnify gun manufacturers from civil suits. If it passes ( and it appears that it will) the family of a victim killed with a gun will be prohibitedfrom suing the manufacturer. The gun manufacturers will be the only industry afforded this sort of blanket protection. The NRA is a very powerful lobby in Washington.

[insanebassman]

double post, my bad&#33; See below

[insanebassman]

If I stab someone to death with a steak knife, will you sue Onieda? If I beat your sone to death with a bat, sue Wilson? What if I kick them to death with me shoes on, Sure rebok? Set them on fire.... sue Exxon for selling me tha gas or blue torch for selling me matches?

Deal with the assholes who misuse items, not the items them selves. May as well argue with a wall about boxing you in. It is pointless. Take away everything and leave me naked, I can still kill. (with the sight of me, no less.. hee hee hee)

I understand the arguements but can not grasp the rationale. Humans will find a way to kill.... Guns are just another tool.

For the record, I think the tobaco companies should not have been sued for thier product, and the dumbasses who used them should not get anything. The tobaco companies should, on the other hand, be made to help cancer clinics and change advertising campaigns.... there is no saftey switch on a cigarette.

[crazy_billy_bats]

Originally posted by insanebassman@5 June 2003 - 20:09

I understand the arguements but can not grasp the rationale. Humans will find a way to kill.... Guns are just another tool.

For the record, I think the tobaco companies should not have been sued for thier product, and the dumbasses who used them should not get anything. The tobaco companies should, on the other hand, be made to help cancer clinics and change advertising campaigns.... there is no saftey switch on a cigarette.
i agree about the tobacco companies, the money should go to cancer research, etc.

But bassman, isnt it a persons decision, say, over 20 years of smoking 20 cigarettes a day to kill themselves?
Maybe the time period for contracting cancer is shorter than that, i just know its bad for you.

It takes one split second for someone to take a life with a gun.
thats it, that person will never speak another word again.

Im sorry but i feel very strongly about this, it is simply ridiculous that people cant admit the obvious harm that these weapons do.
Yes they are a "tool", but wouldnt we be better off with one less tool on the streets to kill people with?
i think it is blatentley obvious that we would.
sure they will find knives, spears whatever else they can find, but they can be outlawed too, it all can be done quite simply if people get their heads out of their asses and realise what its doing to us, and our society.

[jetje]

Originally posted by ilw@5 June 2003 - 21:53
I&#39;m pretty sure someone already has tried to sue, I remember reading something about it. But the companies won, reasons being that they weren&#39;t responsible for how guns are used and also hte fact that most guns used for criminal purposes were either stolen or otherwise illegally obtained.
it will cost some lost processes but in the end it will be worth that.... really no difference as to the cigarettes...

quote clocker

Legislation is currently before Congress which would indemnify gun manufacturers from civil suits. If it passes ( and it appears that it will) the family of a victim killed with a gun will be prohibitedfrom suing the manufacturer. The gun manufacturers will be the only industry afforded this sort of blanket protection. The NRA is a very powerful lobby in Washington.

yes but that can be turned back when it will be clear that the industry bribed politicians to let that pass...
they&#39;re financing the political parties there are rules for that, they violate those rules. When that will be brought to surface the laws will be reconsidered... It&#39;s a real winning situation.

@insanebassman, i agree the stupidity of those lawsuits also i agree on the fact that you should sue the people who missuses the "toys" but also the ones that provides those..
In this case i see it as a good instrument to get a grip on the weapon industry..


Humans will find a way to kill.... Guns are just another tool.
That makes it much more easy... and definitive.. Dumb people, people that suffer severe stress, have medication or are under influence of booze or drugs can kill way to easy. And even young children that have no idea of the destruction weapons can do, and how definitive the use of guns is can use them easy. Seen and heared a lot about accidents, seen the horrifying pictures of young stressed boys shooting in a school...
And don&#39;t talk about a child that by accident finds the gun of the father and shoots his brother or sister... :(
All that would never have happened as they couldn&#39;t get weapons that easy... :(

I think we don&#39;t get an agreement on the topic.. must be a cultural thing... ;)