Trading of Private BitTorrent Accounts

[Imagine_If]

I think it's fraud and encourages Leeches and also, probably a great security risk, that allows companies as the RIAA, to get a foothold.

...should this sort of "trading" be banned here? Should members that offer such accounts have their membership of FileSharingTalk, suspended, their Ips noted and these sent to the administration of the private tracker, whose security, they are compromising?

If this is not a problem for the private site, then their membership can be resumed here.

[j0hn]

filesharingtalk dont care what the private trackers think
thats upto the trackers to deal with
if ppl didnt do it here they would do it elsewhere (as they do)
at least its done here with some form of forum moderation.
im pretty sure its brought thousands more users to these forums, so i cant see it being banned.

and the security risk arguement doesnt hold up.
mpaa/riaa would get in either way.

edit: i'll add that its the "Bittorrent Invites Section" - not the "account/invite trading section"
some users there simply give away invites to friends on the forum, and others trade with trackers that dont mind. both of which i dont see a problem with. cant scrap a whole forum section just because some unrelated sites dont agree.

[nickw1988]

yea it wont be banned each tracker is different and have different ways they will deal with it. Thats why they have spys to catch the people and disable the accounts

[L3ST]

Imagine_If your point of view is understandable if u're an admin/sysop of a good tracker ( good tracker imo = hard to signup ).

Your aproach is wrong though. Think of it this way: Your country is restricted to some type of food. Rice for example. You eat rice all day( aka you have one account, only one tracker, only one category ). You can't buy anything from the internet because you'll get thrown in jail ( aka your account will be disabled ). You can't buy anything else from your country because there is just one food provider and it produces only rice ( the tracker is based on just one category: XviD for example ).
Now .. if you would be in this situation would you trade for something else or would you eat rice forever ? ( aka would you trade your account for another one ? )

No offense to teh asian people :01:

[j0hn]

what a strange comparison

[Imagine_If]

Imagine_If your point of view is understandable if u're an admin/sysop of a good tracker ( good tracker imo = hard to signup ).

Your aproach is wrong though. Think of it this way: Your country is restricted to some type of food. Rice for example. You eat rice all day( aka you have one account, only one tracker, only one category ). You can't buy anything from the internet because you'll get thrown in jail ( aka your account will be disabled ). You can't buy anything else from your country because there is just one food provider and it produces only rice ( the tracker is based on just one category: XviD for example ).
Now .. if you would be in this situation would you trade for something else or would you eat rice forever ? ( aka would you trade your account for another one ? )

No offense to teh asian people :01:





I see what you mean with that analogy I would continue to eat rice, but I would plant some seeds in fertile ground.

Take for example power + buffered accounts with say 100 gbs or more buffer.

These accounts have been created by seeding. Wouldn't it be better to download from other within the community who are struggling with their ratio? That's a good thing to do for the community, rather than putting them at risk?

[L3ST]

I agree on the buffered accounts but this is teh only way to trade these days. If people weren't so greedy the world would be a better place. Noone is gonna trade ya demonoid for ScT for example. So you have to offer a lil' bit more: Extra upload GB's or a higher class.
If the guy who gets the account is a morron it's his problem.

What do you mean by putting the community at risk ? If you trade you get something (usually) better. Teh guy who has something better is still a p2p user who downloads copyrighted information.

[Backthatassup]

It works fine when Power Users use the invite threads on some trackers that have them, that way the fucktard leechers can't request to be invited to such private sites.Not every site wants their name plastered all over the place.Theres at least 5 that I know of that don't get their name mentioned here (they;re good by the way) and thats they way they will keep it.

[brotherdoobie]

Feck it all,and use newsgroups.

-bd

[ghurka]

Think about this situation - if I give an invite to a decent tracker to someone who then trades that account on, who then trades it on again etc etc somewhere down the line we may end up with someone who cheats or gets caught trading the account. Who do the site trace it back to....me. So I get either disabled or my invites taken away and the person I gave the invite to gets away with it.

If you've acquired an account by open sign-up and want to trade it on that's up to you. But if you got that account through an invite I don't feel it's yours to trade on. Respect the person who invited you!

[thewizeard]

I agree on the buffered accounts but this is teh only way to trade these days. If people weren't so greedy the world would be a better place. Noone is gonna trade ya demonoid for ScT for example. So you have to offer a lil' bit more: Extra upload GB's or a higher class.
If the guy who gets the account is a morron it's his problem.

What do you mean by putting the community at risk ? If you trade you get something (usually) better. Teh guy who has something better is still a p2p user who downloads copyrighted information.

Ok suppose I am a member of the RIAA. I have a number of buffered accounts, one of which I am just about to trade with you. I get in say by Oink..I note all the members names.

For that reason I would support the banning of members offering accounts for trade,.

[Alien5]

You could note all the members names, but what use would that be? :unsure: it would be easyer to take out the big kahuna: Sealand :01:

[thewizeard]

You could note all the members names, but what use would that be? :unsure: it would be easyer to take out the big kahuna: Sealand :01:

That would be biting the hand that feeds me :yup:

Mensap2p moves to Sealand (http://z15.invisionfree.com/Imagine_If/index.php?showtopic=242)

[Backthatassup]

Feck it all,and use newsgroups.

-bd
Not everyone "needs" newsgroups...unless your a college student with nothing to do but download pr0n all day long.Most people only need 1 or 2 of each trackers, for example OiNK and Exigo for music, for games Underground Gamer and Black Cats, and as for 0-day take your pick as it seems everyday theres a new one.Im partial to F*C and TL myself but thats me.

[Blahman]

Feck it all,and use newsgroups.

-bd
Not everyone "needs" newsgroups...unless your a college student with nothing to do but download pr0n all day long.Most people only need 1 or 2 of each trackers, for example OiNK and for music, for games Underground Gamer and Black Cats, and as for 0-day take your pick as it seems everyday theres a new one.Im partial to F*C and TL myself but thats me.

Do you only observe the private policies of the sites you are partial to?

[Sentient]

that allows companies as the RIAA, to get a foothold.


Ok suppose I am a member of the RIAA. I have a number of buffered accounts, one of which I am just about to trade with you. I get in say by Oink..I note all the members names

What trackers are you guys members of, where only traded accounts can see member lists, but not invited users? Or is your theory that signup.php can magically detect the RIAA and not let them sign up? Or ...

:frusty:

[thewizeard]

Ok suppose I am a member of the RIAA. I have a number of buffered accounts, one of which I am just about to trade with you. I get in say by Oink..I note all the members names

What trackers are you guys members of, where only traded accounts can see member lists, but not invited users? Or is your theory that signup.php can magically detect the RIAA and not let them sign up? Or ...

:frusty:

Maybe you should read the first post

The idea of Imagine_If is that all IPs should be noted from user's trading accounts here. These IPs then get sent to the tracker whose security is being compromised by these mega-leechers..is that clear enough now?

The idea is also that FST bans the open posting of accounts for "sale" to stop this kind of fraud which is openly displayed here on this forum. Is that clear?

Now thats not so difficult. The idea also is that you do all your"trading"of invites in FileSharingTalk.com's chat room on SoulSeek..
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-file-sharing-8/t-soulseek-updated-406-67507

Those stuck with "buffered"accounts may visit us too, we can help you get these accounts whitewashed without you passing it on to someone else; we can get it accepted, for you, by the tracker's admin..

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-invites-section-90/t-oink-and-demonoid-invites-168777

So what are you waiting for? Ban them, the traders, and you join the respectable traders, on Soulseek.

[Imagine_If]

Sounds a good idea. Then we could help some of the members struggling with their ratio using those buffered accounts. That's caring for the community. No surprises and sharing is caring.

[Sentient]

What trackers are you guys members of, where only traded accounts can see member lists, but not invited users? Or is your theory that signup.php can magically detect the RIAA and not let them sign up? Or ...

:frusty:

Maybe you should read the first post

The idea of Imagine_If is that all IPs should be noted from user's trading accounts here. These IPs then get sent to the tracker whose security is being compromised by these mega-leechers..is that clear enough now?

Thank you, I understood the ridiculous suggestion that staff here should narc on their own users quite well. It was the justification that didn't make any sense. How does trading accounts make a site any more vulnerable to the RIAA?


Now thats not so difficult. The idea also is that you do all your"trading"of invites in FileSharingTalk.com's chat room on SoulSeek..
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-file-sharing-8/t-soulseek-updated-406-67507


This is the first time this thread your Soulseek idea has been mentioned. Again, my issue is that both you and OP said trading accounts makes sites more vulnerable to the RIAA. How?

[Imagine_If]

The first problem is that it encourages leechers and is fraud. Among the honest members here are also sharks. Some of these sharks are from the riaa and other similar sort companies. I have even heard that FST accounts are now being traded, by BitTorrent traders. These traders don't give a feck about other seeders, who are part of the community that they have been able to take from but not willing to give( share).

The main message to members here, and I quote
Never pay for File Sharing!
What is going on here is actually Barter, that's a form of payment, that is against FST.com policy, that is what is going on here. The perpetrators should be banned the moment they offer an account and their ip noted and sent immediately to the private tracker's admin, they are compromising, so they can seal the security leak and deal with the fraud, buffered account or not.

[Melvinmeow]

Think about this situation - if I give an invite to a decent tracker to someone who then trades that account on, who then trades it on again etc etc somewhere down the line we may end up with someone who cheats or gets caught trading the account. Who do the site trace it back to....me. So I get either disabled or my invites taken away and the person I gave the invite to gets away with it.

If you've acquired an account by open sign-up and want to trade it on that's up to you. But if you got that account through an invite I don't feel it's yours to trade on. Respect the person who invited you!

Good choice of words.

I think that trading actual accounts is wrong.

However invites is acceptable.

The whole purpose of the invites on sites is so you can get "friends" on the site. Not so you can get/barter for something else.
I think the whole idea behind trading accounts is wrong.
If more people would acctually at least trade their accounts with good users then you guys really wouldnt have to worry about getting scammed/banned for inviting ratio cheaters ect...
Cause if you acctually knew the people you were inviting you would know they werent cheaters and scammers to begin with.

]Never pay for File Sharing![/quote]
What is going on here is actually Barter, that's a form of payment, that is against FST.com policy, that is what is going on here. The perpetrators should be banned the moment they offer an account and their ip noted and sent immediately to the private tracker's admin, they are compromising, so they can seal the security leak and deal with the fraud, buffered account or not.[/QUOTE]

You and I both know that in order to report this to EVERY tracker that gets accounts TRADED. It would be a full time job. I highly doubt even if FST admins had the slightest intention on catching/reporting these people it would even do anything. The accounts are pretty much gonna be traded no matter what countermeasures would be created to prevent this from happening.

EX: The would just take it elsewhere and do the trades.

[Imagine_If]

Think about this situation - if I give an invite to a decent tracker to someone who then trades that account on, who then trades it on again etc etc somewhere down the line we may end up with someone who cheats or gets caught trading the account. Who do the site trace it back to....me. So I get either disabled or my invites taken away and the person I gave the invite to gets away with it.

If you've acquired an account by open sign-up and want to trade it on that's up to you. But if you got that account through an invite I don't feel it's yours to trade on. Respect the person who invited you!

Good choice of words.

I think that trading actual accounts is wrong.

However invites is acceptable.

The whole purpose of the invites on sites is so you can get "friends" on the site. Not so you can get/barter for something else.
I think the whole idea behind trading accounts is wrong.
**If more people would acctually at least trade their accounts with good users then you guys really wouldnt have to worry about getting scammed/banned for inviting ratio cheaters ect...
Cause if you acctually knew the people you were inviting you would know they werent cheaters and scammers to begin with.

** The problem here is, once you start, sooner or later you will become just another trader, with slightly different rules of engagement.



Good choice of words, 'Nuff said.

[Alien5]

It depends what you would class as a "friend"

[thewizeard]

I agree, and Imagine_If is definitely not that, any more.

[Solo]

Imagine_If is your /our friend thewizeard, and was only Imagining_if things improved at Oink which it definitely has..or will soon.

Also it has come to my attention, one, well know, Oink mod, is sharing pr0n.

I am on a crusade. I hope to see all the banned members, during the last month, reinstated; with an ape-ology.:dry:

[Tokeman]

so trading accounts is barter, according to you, but trading invites is not barter how? and if it is also barter, then why bother having an invite section at all?
This whole idea is very hipocritical, I think you all should re-think it from the ground up.
Trading is trading is trading. Doesn't matter if its buffered/clean accounts or invites. Its all trading one thing for a similar thing, thats barter, which you say is not good for the community. So, by that logic you want to stop all trading, not going to happen bud, not on a TRADING forum!
'nuff said
edit: in no way do I condone trading accounts, I am just stating that it is the same as invite trading, its bartering both ways. So please do not take this as me defending account trading.

[Solo]

so trading accounts is barter, according to you, but trading invites is not barter how? and if it is also barter, then why bother having an invite section at all?
This whole idea is very hipocritical, I think you all should re-think it from the ground up.
Trading is trading is trading. Doesn't matter if its buffered/clean accounts or invites. Its all trading one thing for a similar thing, thats barter, which you say is not good for the community. So, by that logic you want to stop all trading, not going to happen bud, not on a TRADING forum!
'nuff said
edit: in no way do I condone trading accounts, I am just stating that it is the same as invite trading, its bartering both ways. So please do not take this as me defending account trading.

This is in fact one of the most sensible replies in this thread, except for mine naturally :) Going to have to read this more carefully, and I would like to reply on this too.

[mikechrobot]

i think that trading both invites and accounts is accesptable as long as you truad with people that you know aren't cheaters. Selling buffered account, on the other hand, is not okay because it encourages leechers to join the site, they contribute nothing to the site, they don't seed, aren't part of the community, just leech until the buffer is up and then buy another account

[Imagine_If]

so trading accounts is barter, according to you, but trading invites is not barter how? and if it is also barter, then why bother having an invite section at all?
This whole1. idea is very hipocritical, I think 2.you all should re-think it from the ground up.
3.Trading is trading is trading. Doesn't matter if its buffered/clean accounts or invites. Its all trading one thing for a similar thing, thats barter, which you say is not good for the community. So, by that logic 4.you want to stop all trading, not going to happen bud, not on a TRADING forum!
'nuff said
edit:5a. in no way do I condone trading accounts, I am just stating that it is the same as invite trading, its bartering both ways. 5b.So please do not take this as me defending account trading.

6.This is in fact one of the most sensible replies in this thread, except for mine naturally :) Going to have to read this more carefully, and I would like to reply on this too.

All that above 1. I decided you might be right or in any case, have a very good point!

1. To be honest this was an attempt to bring the BitTorrent thinkers, attention, to this problem of trading of accounts.Seems to have had mixed results.
2.Me? Policy here is FST, not mine.I was only highlighting it and the ramifications it has for P2P filesharing.
3. I agree!
4. No only accounts.
5a. I didn't even dream of that, untill you mentioned it, that is! b I didn't.
6. I wish I could say the same for your last post, Solo. :(
7. My conclusion, we all meet for a chat in the Lounge where we have some kewl nakid wimin pics, or if it's serious the Drawing Room, if we ask j2k4 he might arrange some beer or wine ( probably wine) :)

[nbo]

haha
so trackers can "host" the option 4 millions of ppl to download
illegal content but if we trade invites were bad ppl?
H A

[phrenzy]

haha
so trackers can "host" the option 4 millions of ppl to download
illegal content but if we trade invites were bad ppl?
H A


There has be some honor among thieves.

[Night0wl]

In my opinion trading invites and accounts takes the sharing out of filesharing. And I don't see filesharing as theft either. It's just communities of people who share the same or similar interests.

I've always given my invites away and will continue to do so in future. I have on several accounts given something in return for a good invite, but since I would have got it for nothing, I do not in any way see that as trading.

Did that this morning in fact :)

[Imagine_If]

haha
so trackers can "host" the option 4 millions of ppl to download
illegal content but if we trade invites were bad ppl?
H A

I think to be frank, the trading of invites to be OK. ( not that my opinion counts)I am sure that this was the original idea behind this forum.

I am not really sure what you mean nbo. Perhaps you will clarify that?