PDA

View Full Version : France



ShockAndAwe^i^
06-19-2003, 03:32 AM
Unbelievable!
France is at it again.
This time they are enablers of terror!
--------------------
Helping Hamas: French Farce or Fair Choice?
Wednesday, June 18, 2003

A day after President Bush accused the Palestinian militants (search) of sabotaging the Middle East peace process and urged world leaders to take a hard line against them, the French stymied yesterday an attempt by the European Union to blacklist the group's leadership.

"It is in our interest to have Palestinian interlocutors," French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said. "I distrust a strategy based on cutting off dialogue."

The move by de Villepin, whose government also has opposed American demands to shun Palestinian President Yasser Arafat, infuriated British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

"Hamas has rejected the road map and is literally trying to blow it up," said Straw, who proposed outlawing the group.

Helping Hamas: French farce or fair choice?

A sample of your responses:

The French say they are against terrorism and they support Hamas. The only things that can be assumed are:
Sacrificing your children to indiscriminately blow up buses is not terrorism
Hamas is not a terrorist organization
In the mind of the French, Israelis are the terrorists.
France is working with Arafat and Hamas to kill their very own Road Map to peace.
Jan P.
Bristow, VA

Can you explain to me how it is possible to separate the military wing and political wing of Hamas. During the rise of the Nazi Party, did the world try to separate the military faction and the political faction of that regime. Until the world understands that there is no separation between political and military they will never be able to deal with these terrorist spreading entities.
Margo M.
Southwest Harbor, ME

Their anti-semetic support for Hamas is not suprising. Bush took out the shades of grey and France would rather stand against Israel and America on terrorism issues.
James A.

France really want to talk to Hamas? I don't think so - if the Americans decided they were going to open talks with Hamas then I bet you France would be totally against it. They are just being difficult (as usual). Anyway don't be too hard on them, if it wasn't for the French who else could we laugh at? And another thing, why do you have to make this show so god damn entertaining? I'm supposed to be revising for exams but i just can't drag myself away from the tv!
From the No. 1 foxfan across the pond,
Jonathan
England

This is a really simple thing here. Hamas is a terrorist group. The French are supporting them. We need to put France on our terrorist sponsor list and not do a damn thing to help them and go after them also. You all need to tell the French to get all of the dingleberry's out of their eyes.
Todd C.
Canton, MI
:ph34r:
Helping Hamas: French Farce or Fair Choice? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89750,00.html)
They even went against the EU!
If anyone can find a more in depth article please post it here.

kAb
06-19-2003, 03:38 AM
*sigh*

damn french :angry:

the only wars the french have ever won are:

1) American Revolution where the americans did most of the fighting
2) Civil wars... :lol:
3) And when a woman leads them (Joan of Arc)

:lol: :lol:

echidna
06-19-2003, 03:09 PM
i'm more worried that no-one in the USA seems upset that george bush snr gave saddam his dictatorship and the weaponry to match before he decided that saddam was a bad dog and public enemy #1
the reason george dubya is so sure that there are WMD in iraq is daddies collection of receipts
george snr also saw to the education of osama in how to wage terror

both of these 'islamist extremists' wouldn't be a shadow of their present selves if they hadn't been made by the USA

your tax dollars paid to put and keep saddam in power for over 10 years
at the time when saddam gassed the kurds the USA said SFA
it wasn't until george snr decided that he was a bad hound that we started to hear what an evil bastard he was
your tax dollars also paid to teach osama
your ex-president taught and supplied the man said to be behind S11 [and you know i don't mean allende]

doesn't this upset and outrage you? :: if not why?
this would normally disqualify a person from having a political career, let alone getting your caricature cocaine snortin', drink-driving son into the oval office!

how has america ignored this [is the fact that less than 12% of college graduates read newspapers regularly? :: colon powell said this so if you dispute it, you impute the secretary of state as a questionable source]

this isn't an invitation to :flame:
i really wanna know how you guys deal with these facts? :huh:

Oh yeah france and hammas?
i think france ignoring hammas is little biscuits compared to the US support israel uses to commit atrocities
why doesn't the US stage an embargo against israel and palestine? like the US did for 12 years with iraq and for lesser periods with serbia? how long has the US not dealt with cuba?
the US has been supplying the IDF with weapons on credit, that it knows for sure will be used in urban areas against civilians
and has been for decades
but you're upset that france doesn't want to 'blacklist' a group?
it just doesn't add up

Rat Faced
06-19-2003, 07:44 PM
Strange.

It was the USA that CONVINCED us to include the IRA in the peace process, and you were right...

Now you want to deny the same thing in the Middle East, and condemn the French for trying to follow a formula that the USA started, and worked.


You have managed, yet again, to astound me S&A ;)

angellynn26
06-20-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by echidna@19 June 2003 - 11:09
i'm more worried that no-one in the USA seems upset that george bush snr gave saddam his dictatorship and the weaponry to match before he decided that saddam was a bad dog and public enemy #1
the reason george dubya is so sure that there are WMD in iraq is daddies collection of receipts
george snr also saw to the education of osama in how to wage terror

both of these 'islamist extremists' wouldn't be a shadow of their present selves if they hadn't been made by the USA

your tax dollars paid to put and keep saddam in power for over 10 years
at the time when saddam gassed the kurds the USA said SFA
it wasn't until george snr decided that he was a bad hound that we started to hear what an evil bastard he was
your tax dollars also paid to teach osama
your ex-president taught and supplied the man said to be behind S11 [and you know i don't mean allende]

doesn't this upset and outrage you? :: if not why?
this would normally disqualify a person from having a political career, let alone getting your caricature cocaine snortin', drink-driving son into the oval office!

how has america ignored this [is the fact that less than 12% of college graduates read newspapers regularly? :: colon powell said this so if you dispute it, you impute the secretary of state as a questionable source]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lavel...41403_bush.html (http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lavello_041403_bush.html)


Yes, many of us are most definitely outraged and upset. Unfortunately, we are the intellectual minority of an otherwise ignorant majority.

To answer your question about disqualifying... most people here are content to accept what ever they are told to accept. A lot of people blindly follow the one chosen to represent their party, despite any negative or corrupt information they are given about that person. It is a sad state of affairs, but very typical for Americans.

Also, I've said it once, I'll say it many times over again... how could we chastise our leader for perjury and a bj, yet celebrate and love his successor for treason? It makes no sense.

I am a college grad and I do read newspapers, but I cannot confirm nor deny whatever Powell said. I can only say that my grad friends and I do read the papers and engage in debate over issues. I can't say if that's the same for most grads or not, but it does seem a little far fetched.

The Knife Thrower
06-20-2003, 10:07 PM
It's disgraceful. It's as bad as the US supplying the israeli army with weapons.

ShockAndAwe^i^
06-21-2003, 02:44 AM
Yeeesh!
All I see hear is the usual people attacking the USA and not dealing with the subject at hand at all.
As usual. <_<

@angellynn26
I&#39;ve read quite a few of your posts and I think you are a condescending idiot of the worst kind.
The typical left winger thinking the rest of us are just too stupid to know any better.
Plaese save us&#33;

evilbagpuss
06-21-2003, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by ShockAndAwe+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ShockAndAwe)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yeeesh&#33;
All I see hear is the usual people attacking the USA and not dealing with the suject at hand at all.
As usual[/b]


Oh..you must have missed this bit.

<!--QuoteBegin-Rat Faced
It was the USA that CONVINCED us to include the IRA in the peace process, and you were right...

Now you want to deny the same thing in the Middle East, and condemn the French for trying to follow a formula that the USA started, and worked.[/quote]

In case you didnt notice Rat Faced is saying the US was right to convince the UK to include the IRA in the peace talks and that what France is doing now is no different. So no attack on the US there just showing you that exactly the same thing has been done before so what the French are doing isnt anything new.

What do you think of that point S+A?

PS sorry to hijack your post Rat Faced but I thought it was a shame S+A missed it.

ShockAndAwe^i^
06-21-2003, 03:17 AM
I didn&#39;t miss it at all.
Apples and oranges.

angellynn26
06-21-2003, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@20 June 2003 - 22:44
The typical left winger thinking the rest of us are just too stupid to know any better.
Plaese save us&#33;
I was not talking about all Repubs here, S+A. Only referring to those who follow Bush. Believe it or not, there are plenty of heavy right-wingers that are criticising Bush as well. There is no shame in seeing the facts for what they are, no matter what your political affiliation may be.

I also remember a time when the "typical right winger" was so willing to discount an entire presidency based solely on a bj. I remember because it hasn&#39;t stopped&#33; I see people on forums still today trying to defend Bush&#39;s B.S. presidency by throwing up Clinton&#39;s bj&#33; What a joke&#33; There is no comparison in the level of the crime. Let&#39;s face it, the Repubs have officially lost the moral high ground this president around, and America is beginning to wake up from the Bush nightmare.

I&#39;m sorry, but I cannot have any respect for someone who defends a treasonous man. I mean, come on&#33; Defend your country, defend your political views and party, but for God&#39;s sake, don&#39;t defend a sadistic man and then have the balls to apply any valid reasoning to it&#33; The man is scum, plain and simple.

BTW, what is Plaese?

clocker
06-21-2003, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by angellynn26@20 June 2003 - 22:04


I&#39;m sorry, but I cannot have any respect for someone who defends a treasonous man. I mean, come on&#33; Defend your country, defend your political views and party, but for God&#39;s sake, don&#39;t defend a sadistic man and then have the balls to apply any valid reasoning to it&#33; The man is scum, plain and simple.


Angellynn,
I think you might want to leave room for the possibility that someone equally as intelligent as yourself, with access to the same information as you, has reached the conclusion that Bush is not "treasonous" or "sadistic".
In which case it wouldn&#39;t take balls to defend their opinion, just the willingness to express it.
Your post smacks somewhat of "my way or the highway&#33;".

human_pet
06-21-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@19 June 2003 - 03:32
Unbelievable&#33;
France is at it again.
This time they are enablers of terror&#33;
--------------------
Helping Hamas: French Farce or Fair Choice?
Wednesday, June 18, 2003

A day after President Bush accused the Palestinian militants (search) of sabotaging the Middle East peace process and urged world leaders to take a hard line against them, the French stymied yesterday an attempt by the European Union to blacklist the group&#39;s leadership.

"It is in our interest to have Palestinian interlocutors," French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said. "I distrust a strategy based on cutting off dialogue."

The move by de Villepin, whose government also has opposed American demands to shun Palestinian President Yasser Arafat, infuriated British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

"Hamas has rejected the road map and is literally trying to blow it up," said Straw, who proposed outlawing the group.

Helping Hamas: French farce or fair choice?

A sample of your responses:

The French say they are against terrorism and they support Hamas. The only things that can be assumed are:
Sacrificing your children to indiscriminately blow up buses is not terrorism
Hamas is not a terrorist organization
In the mind of the French, Israelis are the terrorists.
France is working with Arafat and Hamas to kill their very own Road Map to peace.
Jan P.
Bristow, VA

Can you explain to me how it is possible to separate the military wing and political wing of Hamas. During the rise of the Nazi Party, did the world try to separate the military faction and the political faction of that regime. Until the world understands that there is no separation between political and military they will never be able to deal with these terrorist spreading entities.
Margo M.
Southwest Harbor, ME

Their anti-semetic support for Hamas is not suprising. Bush took out the shades of grey and France would rather stand against Israel and America on terrorism issues.
James A.

France really want to talk to Hamas? I don&#39;t think so - if the Americans decided they were going to open talks with Hamas then I bet you France would be totally against it. They are just being difficult (as usual). Anyway don&#39;t be too hard on them, if it wasn&#39;t for the French who else could we laugh at? And another thing, why do you have to make this show so god damn entertaining? I&#39;m supposed to be revising for exams but i just can&#39;t drag myself away from the tv&#33;
From the No. 1 foxfan across the pond,
Jonathan
England

This is a really simple thing here. Hamas is a terrorist group. The French are supporting them. We need to put France on our terrorist sponsor list and not do a damn thing to help them and go after them also. You all need to tell the French to get all of the dingleberry&#39;s out of their eyes.
Todd C.
Canton, MI
:ph34r:
Helping Hamas: French Farce or Fair Choice? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89750,00.html)
They even went against the EU&#33;
If anyone can find a more in depth article please post it here.
Enable Terror????Are you saying that it is WRONG to help people who want to defend their country,people and property from invaders???

Salam/Peace

echidna
06-21-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by clocker+21 June 2003 - 14:20--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 21 June 2003 - 14:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-angellynn26@20 June 2003 - 22:04


I&#39;m sorry, but I cannot have any respect for someone who defends a treasonous man.&nbsp; I mean, come on&#33;&nbsp; Defend your country, defend your political views and party, but for God&#39;s sake, don&#39;t defend a sadistic man and then have the balls to apply any valid reasoning to it&#33;&nbsp; The man is scum, plain and simple.


Angellynn,
I think you might want to leave room for the possibility that someone equally as intelligent as yourself, with access to the same information as you, has reached the conclusion that Bush is not "treasonous" or "sadistic".
In which case it wouldn&#39;t take balls to defend their opinion, just the willingness to express it.
Your post smacks somewhat of "my way or the highway&#33;". [/b][/quote]
i totally understand loosing respect for the blind supporters of certain political forces in my own country these people often seem like traitorous aliens to me, driven by fear, paranoia, media instruction and greed
truth that is inconvenient isn&#39;t important

i would concede that bush jnr is greedy and reckless

[i think must of the world doesn&#39;t believe a word that comes out of washington in regard to palestine, the US doesn&#39;t seem to want peace. it keeps talking about peace but it&#39;s actions speak a very clear and MUCH louder message, and have done for decades]

Rat Faced
06-21-2003, 07:14 PM
Shock & Awe, I misread the starting post of this thread and answered incorrectly, in my opinion.

To Clarify:

Hamas cannot BE negotiated with, and I agree should not be invited to the Negociating Table.....See the Israel/Pallestine thread for more in depth of my feeling for Hamas.

Arrafat/PLO/Pallestinian Authority....SHOULD be there, representing the Pallestinian People, for the reasons given earlier in the thread.

Again, read the Israel/Pallestine thread for my distinction between the two different groups.

My Appologise for the confusion, caused by hearing different on our news, to that which you posted....Our news never mentioned any support on the part of the French for Hamas...

Peace.

RF

hobbes
06-21-2003, 08:36 PM
i think must of the world doesn&#39;t believe a word that comes out of washington in regard to palestine, the US doesn&#39;t seem to want peace. it keeps talking about peace but it&#39;s actions speak a very clear and MUCH louder message, and have done for decades).

Echidna,

You again make a statement I fail to understand. I infer from your post that the problem in Israel is not the native Jews, nor the Palestineans, but rather the US, keeping the hive angry.

What do we have to gain by continued strife? Are you proposing that the American government is controlled by our Jewsish citizens, who desire the eradication of the Palestineans and not peace? I mean, it is their relatives who are at danger of being killed on any given day. I wouldn&#39;t wish that on my family. As you know, the rest of don&#39;t care about this pitifully laughable drama which has been going on since I can remember.




As for civil war 2, I&#39;m still trying to figure out who to attack, what I am revolting against and why I can&#39;t just vote people out of office instead of attacking Washington.
Even if we did attack and win, who would we put in charge? Who and what do we represent?

Actually, we have a large middle class and in America poor people are fat and own cars, Tv&#39;s and have a phone.


I tend to view the military and government as looking out for my best interests, not a foe to contend with. Guns are sort of ingrained in our history out of necessity. As a fledgling nation, we felt vulnerable to foreign attack and the local man may need to be called to arms at a moments notice (minutemen). Although we eventually developed a formal military, guns remained in the possession of the individual. Today, people here do not have guns to protect themselves from the government and it&#39;s military, we have guns so that poor people can make babies they can&#39;t care for then shoot each other over drugs.
http://www.mystandlace.com/images/broom.jpg

I really think your view of America is skewed, you really don&#39;t have a good feel for the average citizen. I think you need to come visit us for a few months. I would suggest staying with Clocker, as my apartment has only 1 bedroom, and I don&#39;t share well.


Edit: Acknowledging a sweeping statement.

hobbes
06-21-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by clocker+21 June 2003 - 05:20--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker &#064; 21 June 2003 - 05:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-angellynn26@20 June 2003 - 22:04


I&#39;m sorry, but I cannot have any respect for someone who defends a treasonous man.&nbsp; I mean, come on&#33;&nbsp; Defend your country, defend your political views and party, but for God&#39;s sake, don&#39;t defend a sadistic man and then have the balls to apply any valid reasoning to it&#33;&nbsp; The man is scum, plain and simple.


Angellynn,
I think you might want to leave room for the possibility that someone equally as intelligent as yourself, with access to the same information as you, has reached the conclusion that Bush is not "treasonous" or "sadistic".
In which case it wouldn&#39;t take balls to defend their opinion, just the willingness to express it.
Your post smacks somewhat of "my way or the highway&#33;".[/b][/quote]
Angellynn,

Although I am not a Bush supporter, I think you comments are harsh.
Please explain why Bush is treasonous, sadistic scum. These are just libelous words, put forth without any clarification of what in particular is angering you so.
Some of us are not brainwashed machines being fed lies, or so we believe.


As for blowjobs, are they counted when we publish unemployment rates? I think it is the obligation of every women to get that rate to 0&#33;

Seriously, I was talking to a friend from Colombia and I asked her what she thought about the whole scandal. She basically said that we must have a great and wonderful country for this to even be an issue. She would love for something that trivial to even hit the public radar screen in Colombia.

Yes, if a bj is a national political concern, things are going well.

Rat Faced
06-21-2003, 08:57 PM
Today, people here do not have guns to protect themselves from the government and it&#39;s military, we have guns so that poor people can make babies they can&#39;t care for then shoot each other over drugs.


Off topic i know...but that is a rather sweeping statement ;)




it&#39;s actions speak a very clear and MUCH louder message, and have done for decades


Crap.

It runs in cycles.

10 years ago the USA were instrumental in the Peace Process in Israel/Pallestine.

The USA did not elect the Government of Israel that tore up that agreement and started the whole sorry state of affairs off again.

Much as I hate the present US foreign policy, the USA is NOT responsable for EVERY ill in the world.

Granted that their current policy exagerates the problem...they did not start it.

clocker
06-21-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@21 June 2003 - 14:36


I really think your view of America is skewed, you really don&#39;t have a good feel for the average citizen.&nbsp; I think you need to come visit us for a few months.&nbsp; I would suggest staying with Clocker, as my apartment has only 1 bedroom, and I don&#39;t share well.



Excellent idea, hobbes.
Echidna you are welcome any time.
http://kropla.com/images/castle.jpg

Like most Americans (I don&#39;t know what hobbes&#39; problem is), I live in a castle. There are rooms I haven&#39;t been in for months, so plenty of space for you.
When we rise in the morning the paper will be folded on the table and since I only read the comics the boring news and opinion sections will be pristine.

We&#39;ll eat enough food to stun a mastadon and then get on with the day.

Usually I try to get my duties out of the way early, so we&#39;ll burnup my allotment of 20 gallons of gasoline aimlessly cruising around in my inefficient American car.
We have to idle for a while to do our part in destroying the ozone layer, but that time is well spent searching for minorities to oppress or working poor to harrass.

After &#39;work&#39; is done it&#39;ll be naptime.

Then comes dinner and we have to be sure to consume more food than is necessary or it will be shipped overseas to starving Africans.

Later, in front of my big screen TV, semi comatose from the giant steaks we ate, we can watch Comedy Central or the Playboy Channel. I have a dish and get 500 channels, but have never bothered learning how to program my remote.

When you are ready to retire for the evening you will welcome to any of my Honduran house slaves. They are quite accomodating as they fear deportation.

I&#39;m sorry I can&#39;t offer more, but I&#39;m only Middle Class and am only just getting by.

Oh, I forgot the Political Indoctrination Hour, but as a visitor you&#39;ll probably not be required to attend. I&#39;m usually a bit groggy after these sessions, you&#39;ll have to amuse yourself till I come to. Perhaps you would like to wander around my vast collection of Nikes and PS2s.

At any rate, if this sounds educational you are welcome to visit.

Clocker :P

ShockAndAwe^i^
06-22-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by angellynn26@21 June 2003 - 05:04
BTW, what is Plaese?

Typical left wing resopnse.
Attack the typo&#33; ;)

Btw I&#39;m not a blind follower of GB.
He&#39;s just better than all the liberal Democrats that see the DNC flag before they see the Stars and Stripes.
I don&#39;t think this country can afford to have any of them at the wheel at this most dangerous time in history.

clocker
06-22-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@22 June 2003 - 14:03


Btw I&#39;m not a blind follower of GB.
He&#39;s just better than all the liberal Democrats that see the DNC flag before they see the Stars and Stripes.
I don&#39;t think this country can afford to have any of them at the wheel at this most dangerous time in history.
I wonder which &#39;liberal Democrats" you could be talking about.

I wish we had someone at the helm at this "most dangerous time in history" who demonstrated a better grasp of world affairs and was able to convince other leaders that he understood the concept of diplomacy.

By being a unwavering lackey to big business and the rich, Bush has already guaranteed himself of a comfy future in corporate America, I can&#39;t believe he&#39;s so stupid as to want to run for a second term.

Rat Faced
06-22-2003, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^+22 June 2003 - 20:03--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ShockAndAwe^i^ @ 22 June 2003 - 20:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-angellynn26@21 June 2003 - 05:04
BTW, what is Plaese?

Typical left wing resopnse.
Attack the typo&#33; ;)

Btw I&#39;m not a blind follower of GB.
He&#39;s just better than all the liberal Democrats that see the DNC flag before they see the Stars and Stripes.
I don&#39;t think this country can afford to have any of them at the wheel at this most dangerous time in history. [/b][/quote]
Isnt the whole argument that people are keep pointing out to you...


That Bush see&#39;s &#036;&#036;&#036;&#036; before he see&#39;s the star spangled banner.

In fact in most of our views ( I think), the star spangled banner comes quite far down his apparent list.


This is a personal opinion of course, based on current evidence ;)

ShockAndAwe^i^
06-25-2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by clocker@22 June 2003 - 22:27
I wonder which &#39;liberal Democrats" you could be talking about.

By being a unwavering lackey to big business and the rich, Bush has already guaranteed himself of a comfy future in corporate America, I can&#39;t believe he&#39;s so stupid as to want to run for a second term.
All current Democratic candidates.
As a matter of fact I would be embarrassed to support even one of them, except maybe Lieberman.
I just saw Howard Dean on "Meet The Press" and I was totally stunned and embarrassed for him.
He couldn&#39;t answer the most simple questions and it went on and on and on.
Your right about GB being in the pocket of big biz.
He really screwed us here in California (with the electricity thing) before 911 and I for one never forgot it.
Don&#39;t think for one minute that I&#39;m some sort of blind GB fan.

I&#39;m not in too good a mood about our government as of late.
the supreme court just shredded the constitution yesterday with this unconstitutional affirmative action ruling.
And what about Gephardt?
He says he will use executive orders to reverse any laws the supreme court makes that he dislikes or is against an obvious liberal agenda I assume.:devil:
That&#39;s some scary shit man&#33;
Even though I disagree with some Supreme court rulings I wouldn&#39;t want the president to reverse them by way of executive order.
But that kind of thinking is pervasive throughout the democratic party.