View Full Version : @mievmo-why people hate Israel thing-
why we hate isreal?
very strange question especially when it comes from isreali mouth.
but before answering this let's start with some facts:
1-your country is the only country that built on a religious myth "the promise land thing"
2-your country is one of the few countries in the world that is a religious state cause it's a jewish state that means it's only for jews forgetting it has many other religion and many other people who are not jews
3-your country built on the ruins of other country "Palestine"
4-your country is one of very few countries that still occupied many lands for many years refusing to give it back ,yet it claims she wants peace.
5- your country is one of a few countries in the world that has a secret nuclear program and refuses the international inspection not to mention having many nuclear missiles yet your country crying day and night about the danger of Iran .
6- your country had no clear borders and refusing to draw her borders with her borders ,why?
cause she wants to have the ability to expand her lands any time she wants
7- your country is one of the few countries that using racism against her own citizens ;i'm talking about the Arabians who have an isreali nationality
you treat them like traitors :they are not allowed to a high class universities ,not to be rich, putting them in jail,not to join the army.
8-your country blackmailing the whole western world claiming she surrounds by enemies and she is weak not to mention the holocaust yet you are one of the most advanced countries in the world.
10-your country bombed the UN base in south Lebanon , destroy the American submarine in 1967, mass murdering many of Egyptian soldiers in 1967 who were war prisoners, bomb kids and women in Lebanon in 1982,1994,1996 .
now let's answer your question
let's pick a few reasons from the endless list:
1- isrealis are the only people who crying and nagging when anyone touch them like they are special or gods; kind of annoying you know :)
2-your government killed kids and women in daily basis in palestine yet you isreali are ok with it
man they killed a five years old child who through a stone on a tank that tried to bomb his house.
3- your government bombed churches in the western bank and digging tunnels under the the second most holy mosque.
4- you have more than 15000 person in jail in your country because they defend their lands most of them are women and kids
5- when a retarded go and bomb a house in tel-aviv you go and bomb towns in Gaza and western bank.
when a missile launch from hezballa and 10 injured you invaded Lebanon and killed thousands of people
so if there are an extremist act against you , you will respond with 100 of terrorist ones .
yet you still ask why people hates you.
you know what, i don't hate you
i feel sorry for you because you cannot see the truth or maybe you see it but don't want to admit it;)
ps: all i mention here is facts if you want me to post images and documents to prove my sayings i will :)
here is some videos about isreali terrorism
i have to warn you these videos have a horrible images and it's 18+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NstwYPVOGcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-jf8ZH90Vk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prLPvqttW9c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG7-9PJ7Kpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCUQj2_D94c
and here is a documentary made by European
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnA-X2EaIS8
and here is a kid and his father being killed by isreali
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOlzvhx9qOw
and here is a video discribing how isreali soldiers killed a palestinian kid and they erases the video which was taken for the incident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAR-0XL9n-g
here is Mr. Francis A. Boyle is a Professor in International Law.
Israel's War Crimes against Palestinians
We all have a general idea of what a war crime is, so I am not going to elaborate upon that term here. But there are different degrees of heinousness for war crimes. In particular are the more serious war crimes denominated "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Since the start of the Al Aqsa Intifada, the world has seen those inflicted every day by Israel against the Palestinian People living in occupied Palestine: e.g., willful killing of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli army and Israel's illegal paramilitary settlers. These Israeli "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention mandate universal prosecution for their perpetrators, whether military or civilian, as well as prosecution for their commanders, whether military or civilian, including Israel's political leaders.
Israel's Crimes Against Humanity against Palestinians
But I want to focus for a moment on Israel's "crime against humanity" against the Palestinian People -- as determined by the U.N. Human Rights Commission itself, set up pursuant to the requirements of the United Nations Charter. What is a "crime against humanity"? This concept goes all the way back to the Nuremberg Charter of 1945 for the trial of the major Nazi war criminals. And in the Nuremberg Charter of 1945, drafted by the United States Government, there was created and inserted a new type of international crime specifically intended to deal with the Nazi persecution of the Jewish People.
The paradigmatic example of a "crime against humanity" is what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People. This is where the concept of crime against humanity came from. And this is what the U.N. Human Rights Commission determined that Israel is currently doing to the Palestinian People: Crimes against humanity. Legally, just like what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jews.
The Precursor to Genocide
Moreover, a crime against humanity is the direct historical and legal precursor to the international crime of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The theory here was that what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People required a special international treaty that would codify and universalize the Nuremberg concept of "crime against humanity." And that treaty ultimately became the 1948 Genocide Convention.
In fairness, you will note that the U.N. Human Rights Commission did not go so far as to condemn Israel for committing genocide against the Palestinian People. But it has condemned Israel for committing crimes against humanity, which is the direct precursor to genocide. And I submit that if something is not done quite soon by the American People and the International Community to stop Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian People, it could very well degenerate into genocide, if Israel is not there already. And in this regard, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is what international lawyers call a genocidaire--one who has already committed genocide in the past.
to read more follow this link
http://www.mediamonitors.net/francis7.html
some of the massacres that did by the isrealis
Deir Yassin massacre
refers to the killing of about 107 to 120 [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#_note-noKilled) Palestinian Arabs at the village of Deir Yassin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin) (also written as Dayr Yasin or Dir Yassin) near Jerusalem in the British Mandatee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Palestine) by an Irgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun)-Lehi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi) force between April 9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_9) and April 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_11), 1948 as part of Operation Nachshon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nachshon), an Israeli military offense intended to fend off the siege of Jerusalem. This occurred during a period of increasing local Arab-Jewish fighting about one month prior to the regional outbreak of the much larger 1948 Arab-Israeli War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War). Contemporary reports of this event, with their initial estimate of 250 killed, had considerable impact on the conflict,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#_note-0)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#_note-1)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#_note-2) and were a major cause of Arab civilian flight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus) from Palestine. The circumstances, nature, evaluation, and scope of the Deir Yassin incident remain a source of controversy and debate decades later as the incident has been described as either harsh fighting in a fortified village which resulted in the need for the use of grenades[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#_note-3) or that the village did not allow for a military force to take position and that a massacre of innocent civillians had occured.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#_note-4)
if you want to read more follow this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
1953 - The massacre of Qibya
On the night of October 14-15, 1953, this village was the object of an Israeli attack which was carried out by units from the regular army and in which a variety of weapon types were used. On the evening of October 14, an Israeli military force estimated at about 600 soldiers moved toward the village. Upon arrival, it surrounded it and cordoned it off from all of the other Arab villages. The attack began with concentrated, indiscriminate artillery fire on the homes in the village. This continued until the main force reached the outskirts of the village. Meanwhile, other forces headed for nearby Arab towns such as Shuqba, Badrus and Na'lin in order to distract them and prevent any aid from reaching the people in Qibya. They also planted mines on various roads so as to isolate the village completely. As units of the Israeli army were attacking the village residents, units of military engineers were placing explosives around some of the houses in the village and blowing them up with everyone in them. This attack continued until 4:00 A.M., October 15, 1953, at which time the Israeli forces withdrew to the bases from which they had begun.
This terrorist attack resulted in the destruction of 56 houses, the village mosque, the village school and the water tank . Moreover, 67 citizens lost their lives, both men and women, with many others wounded.
Terrorist Ariel Sharon, the commander of the "101" unit which undertook the terrorist aggression, stated that his leaders' orders had been clear with regard to how the residents of the village were to be dealt with. He says, "The orders were utterly clear: Qibya was to be an example to everyone."
The government of Israel claimed that the massacre was carried out by “civilian Jewish settlers”. But records showed that it was sanctioned by acting Prime Minister Moshe Sharrett, and was planned by Defence Minister Pin Has Lavon, the Chief of General Staff Mordacai Maklet, and Chief of Operations, General Moshe Dayan. On October 26, General Van Bennike testified before the UN Security Council. He gave irrefutable evidence that the attack on Qibya was undertaken by regular army units of Israel and not by irregulars as claimed by official Israeli sources.
1956 - The massacre of Kufr Qasim
http://www.palestinehistory.com/history/images/tl_1956_6.jpg
At 4:30 P.M., October 29, 1956, a sergeant from the border guard informed the mayor of Kufr Qasim Wadi Ahmad Sarsour, that a curfew would be imposed on the village, and asked him to inform village residents. Only 30 minutes before the new curfew time, the mayor tried to convince the officer that about 400 villagers whose work took them outside the village would not be able to able to receive the warning in time. The officer told him that his soldiers would take care of that. The villagers who were home complied. Meanwhile the officers posted themselves at the village gates. Before long the first batch of villagers back home on bicycles, came into sight unaware of the curfew. They were met by the soldiers who shot them at a close range. Others, unaware of the danger awaiting them, started to reach the village entrance. They were met with the same fate.
Attacks on Qana
Qana is known internationally for two separate incidents in which the Israeli Defense Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Defense_Forces) is charged with causing civilian deaths during military operations in Lebanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon):
1996 shelling of Qana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shelling_of_Qana): On 18 April (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_18) 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996), amid heavy fighting between the Israel Defense Forces and Hezbollah fighters during Operation Grapes of Wrath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Grapes_of_Wrath), a Fijian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji) UNIFIL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_in_Lebanon) compound in the village was shelled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_%28projectile%29) by Israeli artillery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery), killing 106 civilians and injuring around 116 others who had taken refuge there to escape the fighting. Four UNIFIL soldiers were also seriously injured.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana#_note-UN_human_rights_report)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana#_note-2)http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Qana.jpg/250px-Qana.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Qana.jpg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Qana.jpg)
Graves of the 28 people killed by the airstrikes on Qana
2006 Qana airstrike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Qana_airstrike): On 30 July (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_30) 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006), during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict), Israeli airstrikes hit an apartment building. The Lebanese Red Cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cross) originally stated that at least 56 people were killed, 32 of which were children. Human Rights Watch later announced that at least 22 people escaped the basement, and 28 are confirmed dead, of which 16 were children, with 13 more still missing [6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana#_note-3) Women were dressed in black and wept over the graves on October 23 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_23), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006), which marks the Eid ul-Fitr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_ul-Fitr)-holiday.[7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana#_note-CBS10230)to read more follow this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana
Documentary Relives Horror of Shatila Massacre
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2005-12/15/images/pic11.jpg
Though no definite figures are available, around 2,000 Palestinians were massacred inside the camps under the watchful eyes of the Israeli army.
DUBAI, December 15, 2005 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) - Twenty-three years after hacking to death Palestinian refugees, six Israeli-backed Lebanese Christian militiamen show no remorse recounting the massacre in a new chilling documentary.
"With hanging or shooting you just die, but this is double," recalls one of the men, explaining how he took an old Palestinian and held him back against a wall, slicing him open in the shape of a cross.
"You die twice since you also die from the fear," he says nonchalantly of the act, describing white flesh and bone.
German director Monika Borgmann's film "Massaker" shows the six speaking out for the first time about their role in the Sabra and Shatila massacre during Israel's invasion of Lebanon.
Though no definite figures are available, around 2,000 Palestinians were massacred inside the camps in September of 1982 by the Christian militia under the watchful eyes of their Israeli alley.
Unlike massacres in some other conflicts, the perpetrators of Sabra and Shatila have not been brought to justice.
now these massacres above is only few ones of an endless list .
if you want more just google it and you will get more
all i want to point out this isn't about islam vs isreal
if isreal gives us our land back we will be more than happy to make peace with her.
people here and every where in the world saying islam=terror
you never stop and think from where those terrorists come from
they are the brothers and sons of those isreal killed in cold blood while the whole world watching.
they are the people who are starving to death in gaza and isreal refuses to give them water or food
they are the people who put in jail in isreal for more than 15 years with no guilt
they are the people whose kids killed under isreali tanks and by isreali snippers.
they are the people who you don't care about and no one in the whole world try to give them a helping hand instead you give isreal money and wepeons to kill more and more of innocent children
i can show you pics of kids and women slaughtered by isreali soldiers
i can show you towns became graveyards by isreali bombers
i can show isreali videos and documents admitting the killing of more than 3000 Egyptian soldiers who were war prisoners in 1967
but do you really care?
and if you care what you gonna do...nothing
why? because it's better to blame islam it's better to blame Arabs
Arabs are ignorants Arabs are barbarians so it's ok for isreal to slaughter them
people i'm not a hater i just put facts under your eyes and leave everything to your judgment.
i got nothing against jews and i feel bad when innocent people got killed .
all i hope for that you open your eyes and your hearts and don't judge us by the acts of few muslims who were mislead
and did terrible things.
torrentt
08-02-2007, 03:53 PM
your an arab/muslim
so u'r opinion doesn't count
next
so you just ignore all the facts in my thread and just say that my opinion doesn't count
because i'm an arab /muslim meaning i'm an insect or an animal maybe so i have no opinion, right
thanks for your humanity and your high values
torrentt
08-02-2007, 04:24 PM
what? insect? animal? who?
i just said u'r a muslim
and guess what a muslim will say about israel
so u don't have to say anything we all know what u'r opinion is
and it isn't neutral
Im not even gonna start to prove you wrong.
But you know what I always wanted to hear an arab/muslim TRY and defend their actions, I wanted to hear there side of the story, because you know what there always is two sides, and I only knew one of them.
But after reading your post...
torrentt
08-02-2007, 04:52 PM
also all you say here is fauls or crooked
and maybe if explaining it to you was important i would have done it
I would have expected this from someone else.
no i want you to prove me wrong come on please prove me wrong
give a solid evidence that what i said here is false and bunch of lies
man, you only cann't discuss my words because you know i'm right
and you said i'm Arabian and because of that nothing you can say can change my mind
so you judge me only by my religion not even try to talk to me or discuss what i'm saying .
any way , i made this thread to answer a question and i answered it
Your Pathetic man, and Ill remember this.
Busyman™
08-02-2007, 05:21 PM
I think he has some points. I don't think he is entirely wrong.
yes this is great insult me because i just said the truth
bigboab
08-02-2007, 06:08 PM
Both sides are guilty of terrorism in this conflict. I have said before, in the early years it was the Jewish Terrorist group Irgun who were doing all the bombing and killing of innocent people. Most people when arguing about this situation tend to, or deliberately, forget this fact. I remember when I was at school British people and others were killed by the Jewish terrorists. I have quoted a piece on terrorism just after the second world war;
1945
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
October 31
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish terrorist offensive against British rule in Palestine begins, with a wave of bomb attacks on police vehicles, railway sites and Haifa oil refinery. One policeman, one soldier and two railway workers killed.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
November 27
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Eight British soldiers killed in bomb attack on police station Jerusalem, Palestine, in Jewish Irgun terrorist attack.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
1946
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
January 7
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Three American civilian officials killed when Nazi "Werewolf" terrorists burn down their house in Passau, Germany.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
March 11
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Iranian scholar Amhed Kashravi stabbed to death by Fedayyan-e eslam guerillas in Iran.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
July 22
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Ninety people killed and forty five wounded after Jewish terrorists blow up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, Palestine, which was home to British government and military offices. The terrorists held workers at pistol point while they planted the explosives in the basement of the hotel.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
September 30
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
One US soldier killed when ambushed by terrorists at Fort McKinley, Philippines.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
October 31
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
British embassy in Rome, Italy, wrecked by two bombs in suit cases left by Jewish Irgun terrorists. No casualties.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
1947
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
July 12
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish Irgun terrorists kidnap and then hang two British Army sergeants. The terrorists were trying to secure the release of three Irgun members who had been sentenced to death by the British authorities in Palestine.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
September 29
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish Irgun terrorists bomb police station in Haifa, Palestine, killing four British and four Arab policemen, as well as two Arab civilians. Forty six people injured.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
December 3
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Train derailed near Arras, France, by Communist terrorists killing twenty and injuring forty.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
December 12
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Twenty Arabs, five Jews and two British soldiers killed and thirty wounded in Jewish terrorist bomb attacks on buses in Haifa and Ramleh, Palestine. British mandate to rule Palestine ends on 15 May 1948; state of Israel established.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
December 29
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish Irgun terrorists throw grenades from passing taxi into café near the Damascus gate, Jerusalem, Palestine, killing eleven Arabs and two British policemen.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
1948
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
January 30
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Indian independence leader and statesman Mahatma Gandhi shot dead in Dehli, India, by Nathuram Vinayak Godse.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
March 7
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Two American diplomats murdered by Viet Minh terrorists in Saigon, Indochina.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
March 11
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Headquarters of the Jewish Agency, Jerusalem, Palestine, destroyed by Arab car bomb killing thirteen and injuring eighty four.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
April 9
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish Irgun terrorist group attacks Deir Yassim, Palestine, murdering two hundred and fifty four Arab women and children captured in the remains of the village.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Bomb explodes near US embassy in Bogota, Colombia, during Organisation of American States conference.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
May 8
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
American CBS correspondent George Polk murdered by three communists in Salonika, Greece, after he was lured to a meeting on a boat in the city's harbour. His body was dumped in the sea.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
July 22
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Pro-peace activist Stephen J Supina, drops home made dynamite bomb on United Nations headquarters in New York, United States. No damage caused and he later surrenders to the authorities.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
September 17
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
United Nations mediator in Palestine, Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, murdered by Jewish Stern gang extremist in Jerusalem, Palestine, who fired at point blank range through window of his official car.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gifhttp://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/terrorism1.htm
In recent years it has been the Palestinian terrorists and Israeli retaliation that made/makes the news. Most of us know all about this.
As you can see, from the above quote, nobody has the moral high ground in this conflict.:(
torrentt
08-02-2007, 06:33 PM
the irgun was made in order to respond for the arab aggression and it was not a terror organization, they didn't kill innocet citizens like arab terror organizations
also, jews don't have a reason to make terror acts against innocents and its forbbiden in judaism and why should jews/israeli kill innocents that don't kill other jews/israeli ? this is in contrast to radical muslims which they believe its the true way
bigboab
08-02-2007, 09:06 PM
the irgun was made in order to respond for the arab aggression and it was not a terror organization, they didn't kill innocet citizens like arab terror organizations
also, jews don't have a reason to make terror acts against innocents and its forbbiden in judaism and why should jews/israeli kill innocents that don't kill other jews/israeli ? this is in contrast to radical muslims which they believe its the true way
Please read my previous post. What I quoted are facts. The Irgun terrorist organization killed many innocent people.
Busyman™
08-02-2007, 09:34 PM
the irgun was made in order to respond for the arab aggression and it was not a terror organization, they didn't kill innocet citizens like arab terror organizations
also, jews don't have a reason to make terror acts against innocents and its forbbiden in judaism and why should jews/israeli kill innocents that don't kill other jews/israeli ? this is in contrast to radical muslims which they believe its the true way
Please read my previous post. What I quoted are facts. The Irgun terrorist organization killed many innocent people.
I'm you are in here to add that both sides committed atrocities.
So many like to make it one group's fault.:ermm:
Busyman™
08-02-2007, 09:36 PM
the irgun was made in order to respond for the arab aggression and it was not a terror organization, they didn't kill innocet citizens like arab terror organizations
also, jews don't have a reason to make terror acts against innocents and its forbbiden in judaism and why should jews/israeli kill innocents that don't kill other jews/israeli ? this is in contrast to radical muslims which they believe its the true way
Oh that's right. Cuz they claim to follow Judaism, they follow it to the letter.
torrentt
08-02-2007, 10:04 PM
the irgun was made in order to respond for the arab aggression and it was not a terror organization, they didn't kill innocet citizens like arab terror organizations
also, jews don't have a reason to make terror acts against innocents and its forbbiden in judaism and why should jews/israeli kill innocents that don't kill other jews/israeli ? this is in contrast to radical muslims which they believe its the true way
Please read my previous post. What I quoted are facts. The Irgun terrorist organization killed many innocent people.
ok, i never heard of these before
but if we count these allegedly terror acts by jews which occur more then 60 years ago, and compare it to the number of terror attacks committed by muslims at that time, or at any other time, till today, its really negligible, and its realy not an answer for "why does people hate israel"
bigboab
08-02-2007, 10:19 PM
Please read my previous post. What I quoted are facts. The Irgun terrorist organization killed many innocent people.
ok, i never heard of these before
but if we count these allegedly terror acts by jews which occur more then 60 years ago, and compare it to the number of terror attacks committed by muslims at that time, or at any other time, till today, its really negligible, and its realy not an answer for "why does people hate israel"
I was only pointing out that the Irgun bombed and killed innocent people too. If you did not know about that then you are only being taught one side of the story. The Palestinians are probably being taught one side of the story from their point of view. Until both sides realize that they have both been guilty of terrorist acts there will be no progress.
Teach history as it happened.:)
torrentt
08-02-2007, 10:54 PM
ok, i never heard of these before
but if we count these allegedly terror acts by jews which occur more then 60 years ago, and compare it to the number of terror attacks committed by muslims at that time, or at any other time, till today, its really negligible, and its realy not an answer for "why does people hate israel"
I was only pointing out that the Irgun bombed and killed innocent people too. If you did not know about that then you are only being taught one side of the story. The Palestinians are probably being taught one side of the story from their point of view. Until both sides realize that they have both been guilty of terrorist acts there will be no progress.
Teach history as it happened.:)
but lets talk about things that didn't happend 60 years ago.
lets take Palestinians government, that was chosen by democratic votes. they kill other Palestinians and the opposition with their family members, kiddnapped an israeli soldier more then a year ago, commits terror acts inside israel etc..
Palestinians have multiple terror organizations, they give weapons to children teach them to kill and tell them they will be holy, etc...
sometimes kids try to enter israel with a bomb girdle around their waists and soldiers detect them, then in the investigation they say they where told to do it even that the didn't want to
some things are undeniable such as the brain washes those kids are having since day 1, they are dressed as suicide bombers when they are few months old their toys are real weapons and only seldom from plastic, they have pictures of suicide bombers, on the walls of their kitchen and other rooms, who each killed tens of israelis that where on buses or at the mall shopping or drinking cafe or eating at a restaurant etc..
they are tought that israel shouldn't be existed and the kids answer when asked what do they want to be when grown up, its suicide bombers.
i think their parents should tell them to be doctors or what ever, and not to tell them its good to be suicide bomber and to kill israelis cos they are bad people.
its true that from time to time innocent palestenians die, but it is done unintentionally, like it can happen and done in every army of every country that seek for stopping the guerrilla attacking their country, while those guerrilla are hiding among other innocent palestenians, even that now its their government.
Busyman™
08-02-2007, 10:59 PM
"Let's talk about things that I consider relevant."
It interesting that Palestinians never let the issue die for 60 years.
I guess cuz so much time passed that their point isn't valid.
Now we are damned if we give in and damn if we don't.
Damned if we don't listen to their issues knowing they are valid.
Damned if we do cuz it makes it loike all teh terrorism worked.
torrentt
08-02-2007, 11:15 PM
"Let's talk about things that I consider relevant."
It interesting that Palestinians never let the issue die for 60 years.
I guess cuz so much time passed that their point isn't valid.
Now we are damned if we give in and damn if we don't.
Damned if we don't listen to their issues knowing they are valid.
Damned if we do cuz it makes it loike all teh terrorism worked.
no, the reason they never let it die is they don't have any other ralic to hold on to
they want this place to themselfs and they want israeli to be vanished, and the only way islam knows is force and death.
israel offered them (camp david) more then what they could have got if they dreamed, but they want all
they don't care to die and i said the reason in my comment above
they where murdering jews here even 100 years ago
its the islam way, in every place on this planet, where there is war, 1 or more of the sides are muslims
torrentt
08-02-2007, 11:35 PM
Both sides are guilty of terrorism in this conflict. I have said before, in the early years it was the Jewish Terrorist group Irgun who were doing all the bombing and killing of innocent people. Most people when arguing about this situation tend to, or deliberately, forget this fact. I remember when I was at school British people and others were killed by the Jewish terrorists. I have quoted a piece on terrorism just after the second world war;
1945
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
October 31
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish terrorist offensive against British rule in Palestine begins, with a wave of bomb attacks on police vehicles, railway sites and Haifa oil refinery. One policeman, one soldier and two railway workers killed.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
November 27
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Eight British soldiers killed in bomb attack on police station Jerusalem, Palestine, in Jewish Irgun terrorist attack.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
1946
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
January 7
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Three American civilian officials killed when Nazi "Werewolf" terrorists burn down their house in Passau, Germany.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
March 11
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Iranian scholar Amhed Kashravi stabbed to death by Fedayyan-e eslam guerillas in Iran.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
July 22
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Ninety people killed and forty five wounded after Jewish terrorists blow up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, Palestine, which was home to British government and military offices. The terrorists held workers at pistol point while they planted the explosives in the basement of the hotel.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
September 30
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
One US soldier killed when ambushed by terrorists at Fort McKinley, Philippines.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
October 31
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
British embassy in Rome, Italy, wrecked by two bombs in suit cases left by Jewish Irgun terrorists. No casualties.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
1947
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
July 12
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish Irgun terrorists kidnap and then hang two British Army sergeants. The terrorists were trying to secure the release of three Irgun members who had been sentenced to death by the British authorities in Palestine.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
September 29
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish Irgun terrorists bomb police station in Haifa, Palestine, killing four British and four Arab policemen, as well as two Arab civilians. Forty six people injured.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
December 3
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Train derailed near Arras, France, by Communist terrorists killing twenty and injuring forty.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
December 12
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Twenty Arabs, five Jews and two British soldiers killed and thirty wounded in Jewish terrorist bomb attacks on buses in Haifa and Ramleh, Palestine. British mandate to rule Palestine ends on 15 May 1948; state of Israel established.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
December 29
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish Irgun terrorists throw grenades from passing taxi into café near the Damascus gate, Jerusalem, Palestine, killing eleven Arabs and two British policemen.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
1948
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
January 30
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Indian independence leader and statesman Mahatma Gandhi shot dead in Dehli, India, by Nathuram Vinayak Godse.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
March 7
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Two American diplomats murdered by Viet Minh terrorists in Saigon, Indochina.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
March 11
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Headquarters of the Jewish Agency, Jerusalem, Palestine, destroyed by Arab car bomb killing thirteen and injuring eighty four.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
April 9
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Jewish Irgun terrorist group attacks Deir Yassim, Palestine, murdering two hundred and fifty four Arab women and children captured in the remains of the village.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Bomb explodes near US embassy in Bogota, Colombia, during Organisation of American States conference.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
May 8
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
American CBS correspondent George Polk murdered by three communists in Salonika, Greece, after he was lured to a meeting on a boat in the city's harbour. His body was dumped in the sea.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
July 22
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
Pro-peace activist Stephen J Supina, drops home made dynamite bomb on United Nations headquarters in New York, United States. No damage caused and he later surrenders to the authorities.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
September 17
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gif
United Nations mediator in Palestine, Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, murdered by Jewish Stern gang extremist in Jerusalem, Palestine, who fired at point blank range through window of his official car.
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/images/dot_clea.gifhttp://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/terrorism1.htm
In recent years it has been the Palestinian terrorists and Israeli retaliation that made/makes the news. Most of us know all about this.
As you can see, from the above quote, nobody has the moral high ground in this conflict.:(
i remember i did studied about it when i was in school some years ago
http://www.etzel.org.il/english/index.html
check this site, it has an explanation for every incident you mentioned above (some of your quotes have nothing to do to israel)
Giallorosso
08-03-2007, 06:38 AM
your an arab/muslim
so u'r opinion doesn't count
next
did u read the subject or u just write these pullshit
we neeeeeeed to talk to know who is right and who is wrong or u make ourself like poor guys and no one care for u
then reply somethin logical:angry::angry:
Giallorosso
08-03-2007, 07:01 AM
what? insect? animal? who?
i just said u'r a muslim
and guess what a muslim will say about israel
so u don't have to say anything we all know what u'r opinion is
and it isn't neutral
realy is that's neutral so tell me why it's neutral pls
tell us if we accuse u wrongfully tell us why more than 1000 million people's opinions are wrong haaaa are all of them stupid ??
and all of u are smart clever
why ?????? god hate us somethin :01:
give us an explanation plssssssssss:naughty::naughty::naughty:
Im not even gonna start to prove you wrong.
But you know what I always wanted to hear an arab/muslim TRY and defend their actions, I wanted to hear there side of the story, because you know what there always is two sides, and I only knew one of them.
But after reading your post...
and which side u knew before
then go ahead and comment pls we need ur opinion
and can u tell us what is ur country pls
also all you say here is fauls or crooked
and maybe if explaining it to you was important i would have done it
ya i think it's important
and u should start from now
cause there is no excuse for not ,,,,,,,
I would have expected this from someone else.
who ?? tell us ??? and we will bring him here ( if that wasn't me :D)
Your Pathetic man, and Ill remember this.
remember it or not .... we don't care for someone who don't need to talk
I think he has some points. I don't think he is entirely wrong.
here we go
some one talk logicaly:yup:
bigboab
08-03-2007, 07:28 AM
Both sides are guilty of terrorism in this conflict. I have said before, in the early years it was the Jewish Terrorist group Irgun who were doing all the bombing and killing of innocent people. Most people when arguing about this situation tend to, or deliberately, forget this fact. I remember when I was at school British people and others were killed by the Jewish terrorists. I have quoted a piece on terrorism just after the second world war;
http://www.timripley.co.uk/terrorism/terrorism1.htm
In recent years it has been the Palestinian terrorists and Israeli retaliation that made/makes the news. Most of us know all about this.
As you can see, from the above quote, nobody has the moral high ground in this conflict.:(
i remember i did studied about it when i was in school some years ago
http://www.etzel.org.il/english/index.html
check this site, it has an explanation for every incident you mentioned above (some of your quotes have nothing to do to israel)
Yes! The explanation is that they were terrorists, first and foremost. Both sides of this conflict are brainwashed from the cradle. That is something that is hard to eradicate. It will never be eradicated by you, or, your link, trying to make excuses for your terrorists killing and maiming innocent people. There is no excuse for killing civilians, full stop.
P.S. My quotes were on all terrorism over a period of years just after the second world war. If I had just singled out the Irgun part of that quote It would not be neutral.:)
Here is another link that you can read;
Read the article in full. for those who cant be bothered here is an extract of the terrorism from both sides in 1947;
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2006/0605014.html
1947: A Year of Terror
Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
Jan. 13—Arab kidnapped and castrated by Jewish terrorists.
March 1—Sixteen Britons killed by Jewish terrorists/Britain invokes martial law
March 10—Jewish informer killed by Jewish terrorists.
March 11—Two British soldiers killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—British constable killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—Jewish boy killed by British troops.
April 8—Jew beaten to death by Arabs.
April 22—Eight killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of the Cairo-Haifa train.
April 25—Five killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of British camp.
April 26—British police official killed by Jewish terrorist.
May 8—Three Jewish shops in Tel Aviv whose owners refused to contribute to Jewish terrorist groups burned down by Jewish terrorists.
May 8—Jew killed near Tel Aviv by Arab terrorists.
May 12—Two British policemen killed in Jewish Jerusalem.
May 15—British policeman killed in terrorist ambush.
May 15—Two British soldiers killed in terrorist Stern Gang attack.
May 16—Two British police officers killed by terrorists.
May 18—One Jew killed, one wounded by Arab terrorists.
June 5—Jewish terrorists introduce letter bombs in Middle East.
June 28—Four British soldiers killed in Jewish terrorist raids.
July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
July 18—British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 19—Another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 20—Yet another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 23—65 Jews killed when Haganah sinks immigration ship.
July 26—Two British soldiers killed in booby trap.
July 29—Three Jews executed by hanging. Jewish terrorists retaliate by hanging two British soldiers.
Aug. 5—Three British police killed by bomb; plot discovered to poison the water supply of non-Jewish parts of Jerusalem with botulism and other bacteria.
Aug. 10—Four Jews killed in Arab terror attack on Tel Aviv café.
Aug. 12—Five Jews, four Arabs killed, others injured, in spread of violent incidents over three days.
Aug. 15—Twelve Palestinians killed in raid by Haganah troops.
Aug. 18—Shops of five Jews in Tel Aviv destroyed by Jewish terrorists.
Aug. 23—Five Arabs of one family—two men, a woman and two children—killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 7—French foil Stern Gang plot to air bomb London.
Sept. 21—British messenger killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
Sept. 27—Illegal Jewish immigrant killed by British.
Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police station.
Oct. 4—Two Jews killed in ambush, two Arabs killed in retaliation.
Oct. 13—Two British troops killed by Jewish terrorists in Jerusalem.
Oct. 26—Jewish settlement policeman found killed near Gaza.
Nov. 3—Jewish policeman killed, reportedly by Stern Gang after refusing to reveal secret police matters.
Nov. 12—21 killed in British-Jewish clashes.
Nov. 14—Jewish terrorists kill 4 Britons in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv
Nov. 30—Violent riots erupt throughout Arab world following adoption of U.N. partition plan. In Palestine, seven Jews killed and eight wounded in the first day. All told, during the first week at least 159 persons were killed in the Middle East, 66 of them in Palestine.
Dec. 2—Palestinians begin 3-day protest strike; 20 Jews, 15 Arabs killed. Five Arabs and seven Jews were killed the next day during a six-hour battle on the Tel Aviv-Jaffa border.
Dec. 13—35 Palestinian civilians killed in Jewish terrorist attacks.
Dec. 14—14 Jews killed by Arab Legion in retaliation.
Dec. 18—Palmach (“assault companies”) kills 10 Arabs, including 5 children, in nighttime raid on northern Galilee village of Khissas. The following day Haganah troops blew up the home of the village elder of Qazaza in central Palestine, killing several inhabitants. Wrote The Times of London: “While the Jews are suffering mainly through sniping at their road convoys, the Arabs have lost many lives through Jewish assaults on their villages.”
Dec. 20—Haganah raid on village of Qazaza kills one Palestinian.
Dec. 24—Stern Gang member killed for betrayal of another member.
Dec. 25—16 Arabs, Jews and British killed on Christmas.
Dec. 25—Palestinian landowner killed for selling land to Jews.
Dec. 26—Ben-Gurion proposes major offensive to reduce Arab population.
Dec. 26—Jewish terrorists get $107,000 in heists of diamond plants.
Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
Dec. 30—41 Jews, 6 Arabs killed in riot sparked by Stern Gang.
Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year.—D.N.
If you, or anyone, can justify any of the above, I would like to hear it.
your an arab/muslim
so u'r opinion doesn't count
next
yes you want some American made comment which say "am with "israel" all the way no matter what"
the irgun was made in order to respond for the arab aggression and it was not a terror organization
Fath/hamas was made in order to response Jew's/"Israel" aggression and they aren't a terror organization.
they didn't kill innocent citizens like arab terror organizations
c'mon, they did and they still do, the only thing change since is their name, from Irgun to army. i dont know how you can say they dont kill innocent, were you in coma in 2006 or what? you do have internet go check some articles about mass killing of disabled children's in south Lebanon bombing 2006(final solution any1 ?)
also, jews don't have a reason to make terror acts against innocents and its forbbiden in judaism and why should jews/israeli kill innocents that don't kill other jews/israeli ? this is in contrast to radical muslims which they believe its the true way
really you should ask your self(mybe your state), why do they kill innocent mother/father/brother/sister/home simply because his son was the one who blow him self.
why they must bomp a building full of civilians just because one jehadist is living in it.
lets take Palestinians government, that was chosen by democratic votes. they kill other Palestinians and the opposition with their family members, kiddnapped an israeli soldier more then a year ago, commits terror acts inside israel etc..
Palestinians have multiple terror organizations, they give weapons to children teach them to kill and tell them they will be holy, etc...
what else you guys want more then that, keep neighbor busy and live in peace.
some things are undeniable such as the brain washes those kids are having since day 1, they are dressed as suicide bombers when they are few months old their toys are real weapons and only seldom from plastic, they have pictures of suicide bombers, on the walls of their kitchen and other rooms, who each killed tens of israelis that where on buses or at the mall shopping or drinking cafe or eating at a restaurant etc..
what do you expect from freedom fighters? seat and say we want our freedom and "israel" gives them on silver plate. why dont you say some thing about Ireland, they also have freedom fighters who almost do same thing.
no, the reason they never let it die is they don't have any other ralic to hold on to
they want this place to themselfs and they want israeli to be vanished, and the only way islam knows is force and death.
israel offered them (camp david) more then what they could have got if they dreamed, but they want all
they don't care to die and i said the reason in my comment above
they where murdering jews here even 100 years ago
its the islam way, in every place on this planet, where there is war, 1 or more of the sides are muslims
whos more brain washed now?
you see us on every front because we fight our fight unlike you who want america to fight their fight; iraq, iran, syria, lebanon, lybia, every single country which is in USA's watch list has something to do with "Israel".
in your face
they are tought that israel shouldn't be existed and the kids answer when asked what do they want to be when grown up, its suicide bombers.
i think their parents should tell them to be doctors or what ever, and not to tell them its good to be suicide bomber and to kill israelis cos they are bad people.
again more brain washing, not every Palestinian is from hamas party or their supporter and fighting the invator is a legal right of every country men.
its true that from time to time innocent Palestinians die... but it is done unintentionally, like it can happen and done in every army of every country that seek for stopping the guerrilla attacking their country, while those guerrilla are hiding among other innocent palestenians, even that now its their government
...but thats ok as far as a one militant dies in that particular raid.
same thing goes in a so called "suicide bomber" mind when he/she sacrifice himself/herself to pressure on other side for their freedom. the whole thing is based on ideology, the different thinking.
*your whole country was built illegally and then even west agreed on that its just as you say they stopped caring about it after 60 years but how can we/they forget, did you people in Poland liked finding your home being occupied by others after WWII? still you guys bitch about it so why shouldn't we.
*you guys are doing same thing to Palestinians which you think Nazi did to you at that time(hunted becomes the hunter).
*nobody talks about shelters terror in Gaza(then before they get kicked by their own god) and west bank.
*jews were pain in the neck since the early age even to moses it self, in every god damn time they were the center of the problem.
*you talk of the islam way, that they want everything with force, why dont you check your way, who got a peace of land by force and with help of major powers?
who still over comes their every god damn problem by interfering and war?
Islam means peace but it doesn't mean to keep silent where there is unfairness.
torrentt
08-03-2007, 10:14 AM
i remember i did studied about it when i was in school some years ago
http://www.etzel.org.il/english/index.html
check this site, it has an explanation for every incident you mentioned above (some of your quotes have nothing to do to israel)
Yes! The explanation is that they were terrorists, first and foremost. Both sides of this conflict are brainwashed from the cradle. That is something that is hard to eradicate. It will never be eradicated by you, or, your link, trying to make excuses for your terrorists killing and maiming innocent people. There is no excuse for killing civilians, full stop.
P.S. My quotes were on all terrorism over a period of years just after the second world war. If I had just singled out the Irgun part of that quote It would not be neutral.:)
Here is another link that you can read;
Read the article in full. for those who cant be bothered here is an extract of the terrorism from both sides in 1947;
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2006/0605014.html
1947: A Year of Terror
Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
Jan. 13—Arab kidnapped and castrated by Jewish terrorists.
March 1—Sixteen Britons killed by Jewish terrorists/Britain invokes martial law
March 10—Jewish informer killed by Jewish terrorists.
March 11—Two British soldiers killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—British constable killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—Jewish boy killed by British troops.
April 8—Jew beaten to death by Arabs.
April 22—Eight killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of the Cairo-Haifa train.
April 25—Five killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of British camp.
April 26—British police official killed by Jewish terrorist.
May 8—Three Jewish shops in Tel Aviv whose owners refused to contribute to Jewish terrorist groups burned down by Jewish terrorists.
May 8—Jew killed near Tel Aviv by Arab terrorists.
May 12—Two British policemen killed in Jewish Jerusalem.
May 15—British policeman killed in terrorist ambush.
May 15—Two British soldiers killed in terrorist Stern Gang attack.
May 16—Two British police officers killed by terrorists.
May 18—One Jew killed, one wounded by Arab terrorists.
June 5—Jewish terrorists introduce letter bombs in Middle East.
June 28—Four British soldiers killed in Jewish terrorist raids.
July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
July 18—British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 19—Another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 20—Yet another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 23—65 Jews killed when Haganah sinks immigration ship.
July 26—Two British soldiers killed in booby trap.
July 29—Three Jews executed by hanging. Jewish terrorists retaliate by hanging two British soldiers.
Aug. 5—Three British police killed by bomb; plot discovered to poison the water supply of non-Jewish parts of Jerusalem with botulism and other bacteria.
Aug. 10—Four Jews killed in Arab terror attack on Tel Aviv café.
Aug. 12—Five Jews, four Arabs killed, others injured, in spread of violent incidents over three days.
Aug. 15—Twelve Palestinians killed in raid by Haganah troops.
Aug. 18—Shops of five Jews in Tel Aviv destroyed by Jewish terrorists.
Aug. 23—Five Arabs of one family—two men, a woman and two children—killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 7—French foil Stern Gang plot to air bomb London.
Sept. 21—British messenger killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
Sept. 27—Illegal Jewish immigrant killed by British.
Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police station.
Oct. 4—Two Jews killed in ambush, two Arabs killed in retaliation.
Oct. 13—Two British troops killed by Jewish terrorists in Jerusalem.
Oct. 26—Jewish settlement policeman found killed near Gaza.
Nov. 3—Jewish policeman killed, reportedly by Stern Gang after refusing to reveal secret police matters.
Nov. 12—21 killed in British-Jewish clashes.
Nov. 14—Jewish terrorists kill 4 Britons in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv
Nov. 30—Violent riots erupt throughout Arab world following adoption of U.N. partition plan. In Palestine, seven Jews killed and eight wounded in the first day. All told, during the first week at least 159 persons were killed in the Middle East, 66 of them in Palestine.
Dec. 2—Palestinians begin 3-day protest strike; 20 Jews, 15 Arabs killed. Five Arabs and seven Jews were killed the next day during a six-hour battle on the Tel Aviv-Jaffa border.
Dec. 13—35 Palestinian civilians killed in Jewish terrorist attacks.
Dec. 14—14 Jews killed by Arab Legion in retaliation.
Dec. 18—Palmach (“assault companies”) kills 10 Arabs, including 5 children, in nighttime raid on northern Galilee village of Khissas. The following day Haganah troops blew up the home of the village elder of Qazaza in central Palestine, killing several inhabitants. Wrote The Times of London: “While the Jews are suffering mainly through sniping at their road convoys, the Arabs have lost many lives through Jewish assaults on their villages.”
Dec. 20—Haganah raid on village of Qazaza kills one Palestinian.
Dec. 24—Stern Gang member killed for betrayal of another member.
Dec. 25—16 Arabs, Jews and British killed on Christmas.
Dec. 25—Palestinian landowner killed for selling land to Jews.
Dec. 26—Ben-Gurion proposes major offensive to reduce Arab population.
Dec. 26—Jewish terrorists get $107,000 in heists of diamond plants.
Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
Dec. 30—41 Jews, 6 Arabs killed in riot sparked by Stern Gang.
Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year.—D.N.
If you, or anyone, can justify any of the above, I would like to hear it.
everything here are actions committed due to terror activities preformed by arabs or for
it will take all of my time to search for explanations individually and i have better things too do
yet again, u bring me quotes of more then 60 years ago of mandatorily regime which every action it didn't do, was "terror act", without any background for this.
additionally, these irgun, hagana etc, where not friends so to speak, with the british mandate at that time, and thats why they wouldn't call them underground or jews protection groups, but they will call them terroristsits like u'll give me a quote that million of nazis where murders by russia,uk and usa.
it won't be a neutral quote cos it could have come from the nasiz themselfs and you didn't write what is the reason, usa, uk and russia killed them
torrentt
08-03-2007, 10:24 AM
bawa
stop saying freedom fighter, they go inside israel and kill peopla from all ages 0 to 90+
u need to know what is a discussion table, and stop educating kids and then sending them to kill, u area beasts.
and i don't thing its worth commenthing on other clueless things u've said
just pry the history and see that we occupied territories witch weren't the Palestinians in wars the arabs nations surrounding israel started with smalls israel
but, with peace agreements and in time, most of the territories where given back
but look at gaza, so many inside terror acts, arabs kill arabs and little arab kids and elders and babies. how can we make peace with such barbarians?
bawa
stop saying freedom fighter, they go inside israel and kill peopla from all ages 0 to 90+
u need to know what is a discussion table, and stop educating kids and then sending them to kill, u area beasts.
and i don't thing its worth commenthing on other clueless things u've said
just pry the history and see that we occupied territories witch weren't the Palestinians in wars the arabs nations surrounding israel started with smalls israel
but, with peace agreements and in time, most of the territories where given back
but look at gaza, so many inside terror acts, arabs kill arabs and little arab kids and elders and babies. how can we make peace with such barbarians?
they go inside "Israel" and you go from one occupied land to another, you also kill from 0 to 90, as i said both are fighting for survival.
and you must 1st educate your self and stop relying on your leaders.
those land weren't Palestinian but they were arab lands and lived by arabs not jews, who give you the rights to simply take whats not yours.
and one thing which almost everybody agrees on is they know which side is more barbaric then other http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/images/icons/icon2.gif
and dont act like your not happy with Gaza situation, your loving it as much as olmert dose.
bigboab
08-03-2007, 11:08 AM
Yes! The explanation is that they were terrorists, first and foremost. Both sides of this conflict are brainwashed from the cradle. That is something that is hard to eradicate. It will never be eradicated by you, or, your link, trying to make excuses for your terrorists killing and maiming innocent people. There is no excuse for killing civilians, full stop.
P.S. My quotes were on all terrorism over a period of years just after the second world war. If I had just singled out the Irgun part of that quote It would not be neutral.:)
Here is another link that you can read;
Read the article in full. for those who cant be bothered here is an extract of the terrorism from both sides in 1947;
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2006/0605014.html
1947: A Year of Terror
Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
Jan. 13—Arab kidnapped and castrated by Jewish terrorists.
March 1—Sixteen Britons killed by Jewish terrorists/Britain invokes martial law
March 10—Jewish informer killed by Jewish terrorists.
March 11—Two British soldiers killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—British constable killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—Jewish boy killed by British troops.
April 8—Jew beaten to death by Arabs.
April 22—Eight killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of the Cairo-Haifa train.
April 25—Five killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of British camp.
April 26—British police official killed by Jewish terrorist.
May 8—Three Jewish shops in Tel Aviv whose owners refused to contribute to Jewish terrorist groups burned down by Jewish terrorists.
May 8—Jew killed near Tel Aviv by Arab terrorists.
May 12—Two British policemen killed in Jewish Jerusalem.
May 15—British policeman killed in terrorist ambush.
May 15—Two British soldiers killed in terrorist Stern Gang attack.
May 16—Two British police officers killed by terrorists.
May 18—One Jew killed, one wounded by Arab terrorists.
June 5—Jewish terrorists introduce letter bombs in Middle East.
June 28—Four British soldiers killed in Jewish terrorist raids.
July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
July 18—British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 19—Another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 20—Yet another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 23—65 Jews killed when Haganah sinks immigration ship.
July 26—Two British soldiers killed in booby trap.
July 29—Three Jews executed by hanging. Jewish terrorists retaliate by hanging two British soldiers.
Aug. 5—Three British police killed by bomb; plot discovered to poison the water supply of non-Jewish parts of Jerusalem with botulism and other bacteria.
Aug. 10—Four Jews killed in Arab terror attack on Tel Aviv café.
Aug. 12—Five Jews, four Arabs killed, others injured, in spread of violent incidents over three days.
Aug. 15—Twelve Palestinians killed in raid by Haganah troops.
Aug. 18—Shops of five Jews in Tel Aviv destroyed by Jewish terrorists.
Aug. 23—Five Arabs of one family—two men, a woman and two children—killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 7—French foil Stern Gang plot to air bomb London.
Sept. 21—British messenger killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
Sept. 27—Illegal Jewish immigrant killed by British.
Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police station.
Oct. 4—Two Jews killed in ambush, two Arabs killed in retaliation.
Oct. 13—Two British troops killed by Jewish terrorists in Jerusalem.
Oct. 26—Jewish settlement policeman found killed near Gaza.
Nov. 3—Jewish policeman killed, reportedly by Stern Gang after refusing to reveal secret police matters.
Nov. 12—21 killed in British-Jewish clashes.
Nov. 14—Jewish terrorists kill 4 Britons in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv
Nov. 30—Violent riots erupt throughout Arab world following adoption of U.N. partition plan. In Palestine, seven Jews killed and eight wounded in the first day. All told, during the first week at least 159 persons were killed in the Middle East, 66 of them in Palestine.
Dec. 2—Palestinians begin 3-day protest strike; 20 Jews, 15 Arabs killed. Five Arabs and seven Jews were killed the next day during a six-hour battle on the Tel Aviv-Jaffa border.
Dec. 13—35 Palestinian civilians killed in Jewish terrorist attacks.
Dec. 14—14 Jews killed by Arab Legion in retaliation.
Dec. 18—Palmach (“assault companies”) kills 10 Arabs, including 5 children, in nighttime raid on northern Galilee village of Khissas. The following day Haganah troops blew up the home of the village elder of Qazaza in central Palestine, killing several inhabitants. Wrote The Times of London: “While the Jews are suffering mainly through sniping at their road convoys, the Arabs have lost many lives through Jewish assaults on their villages.”
Dec. 20—Haganah raid on village of Qazaza kills one Palestinian.
Dec. 24—Stern Gang member killed for betrayal of another member.
Dec. 25—16 Arabs, Jews and British killed on Christmas.
Dec. 25—Palestinian landowner killed for selling land to Jews.
Dec. 26—Ben-Gurion proposes major offensive to reduce Arab population.
Dec. 26—Jewish terrorists get $107,000 in heists of diamond plants.
Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
Dec. 30—41 Jews, 6 Arabs killed in riot sparked by Stern Gang.
Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year.—D.N.
If you, or anyone, can justify any of the above, I would like to hear it.
everything here are actions committed due to terror activities preformed by arabs or for
it will take all of my time to search for explanations individually and i have better things too do
yet again, u bring me quotes of more then 60 years ago of mandatorily regime which every action it didn't do, was "terror act", without any background for this.
additionally, these irgun, hagana etc, where not friends so to speak, with the british mandate at that time, and thats why they wouldn't call them underground or jews protection groups, but they will call them terroristsits like u'll give me a quote that million of nazis where murders by russia,uk and usa.
it won't be a neutral quote cos it could have come from the nasiz themselfs and you didn't write what is the reason, usa, uk and russia killed them
:unsure:
I don't think I will discuss this subject with you any further. It is pretty obvious you can only see one side of the conflict. As for your last quote about Nazis etc? We are not discussing the Nazis. We were discussing the Arab/Israeli conflict and why do people hate the Israelis, with regard to that conflict.
torrentt
08-03-2007, 12:46 PM
i didn't talk about the nazis, i just gave an example of your quotes's approach
if u don't want to discuss about this any more, its my pleasure
and i do not see only 1 side of the story, i feel sorry for all the innocent arabs that die by israel's army or by other arabs, but what other country's army can fight terror and kill 0 innocents? if there was no arab terror, idf would not have had to make actions in the palestenian territory.
if isreal didn't occupied Arabian lands in the first place ,didn't slaughter people for many years and obey the UN orders 242 and many others .
if isreal didn't bomb UN BASES in Lebanon , if isreal didn't bomb the red cross camps and if it allows water and food to Gaza .
above all if it stops blackmailing the world and stop twisting the facts
maybe there will be no struggle
man ,they killed kids and women and you call this fighting terrorism come on
in Palestine people are struggling against occupation they are not terrorists
don't twist the facts please
till now you didn't give us a simple document reversing any of what i saying
all you try to do is taking the discussion somewhere else .
you are the one who talking about religion here .
we talk about countries and occupied lands and international law and you judge us by our religion and talk about Nazis .
you just try to run away from the discussion hoping you can take the people eyes from the facts i deliver in this thread.
it's ok.
thanks for your comments any way cause your behavior only proves me right.
HeavyMetalParkingLot
08-03-2007, 04:05 PM
you judge us by our religion
Well, when your government is dominated by religion, it becomes hard not to talk about it. You talk about what Israel does and forget to mention what Palestine does. To me it sounds like you are saying they are just being all peaceful and the big bad Israel is pushing you around. I can't really recall Israel making statements like Palestine or Syrtia or whatever other country will soon be wiped off the face of the earth. I don't think Israel schools are teaching their children in their textbooks that another nationality is the devil and should be killed. I also don't see Israel burning books (Nazis anyone?) or cutting off peoples ears and noses for simply shaving. I also don't see Israel making their women second rate citizens. I have yet to see where Israel thinks it is ok to kill someone for not converting to their faith.
torrentt
08-03-2007, 04:09 PM
silverfall -u are twisting my words
i didn't talk about nazis, just gave them inside an example of bob's quotes
israel give gaza water, electricity, place to work inside israel etc.. so don't lie
and as i already said, if there where no terror acts by the arabs, idf wouldn't have had to go inside your territories and stop the terrorists.
if you stop sending kids with weapons to shoot soldiers or throw stones or i don't care what, those kids would still be alive so none of the blame should be point out towards israel
Smith
08-03-2007, 05:59 PM
1-your country is the only country that built on a religious myth "the promise land thing"
But its not the only country built on religion..so whats the difference?
"1- isrealis are the only people who crying and nagging when anyone touch them like they are special or gods; kind of annoying you know"
Your just pulling things out your ass right now..you should plug that leak..possibly with your head.
you judge us by our religion
Well, when your government is dominated by religion, it becomes hard not to talk about it. You talk about what Israel does and forget to mention what Palestine does. To me it sounds like you are saying they are just being all peaceful and the big bad Israel is pushing you around. I can't really recall Israel making statements like Palestine or Syrtia or whatever other country will soon be wiped off the face of the earth. I don't think Israel schools are teaching their children in their textbooks that another nationality is the devil and should be killed. I also don't see Israel burning books (Nazis anyone?) or cutting off peoples ears and noses for simply shaving. I also don't see Israel making their women second rate citizens. I have yet to see where Israel thinks it is ok to kill someone for not converting to their faith.
my country isn't a religious country
i'm from Egypt and we don't teach our kids any of what you are saying.
and we treat our women equally .
please read about us before talking
1-your country is the only country that built on a religious myth "the promise land thing"
But its not the only country built on religion..so whats the difference?
"1- isrealis are the only people who crying and nagging when anyone touch them like they are special or gods; kind of annoying you know"
Your just pulling things out your ass right now..you should plug that leak..possibly with your head.
talking about my ass won't help you.
isreal built on a religious myth that's fact ,there is no other country in the world built on a myth.
as religious state there are few countries in the world their constitution declares they a religious country.
now instead of insulting me i urge you to read more
just stop talking about ass like you are a big man
just use your head instead of using your mouth
it will help you
and still you are all here try to make a fight and insulting me .
using bad words for what?
if my words hurt you this bad.
sorry truth hurt
if you want to read an american words
http://www.mediamonitors.net/francis7.html
this is Mr. Francis A. Boyle is a Professor in International Law
Israel's War Crimes against Palestinians
We all have a general idea of what a war crime is, so I am not going to elaborate upon that term here. But there are different degrees of heinousness for war crimes. In particular are the more serious war crimes denominated "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Since the start of the Al Aqsa Intifada, the world has seen those inflicted every day by Israel against the Palestinian People living in occupied Palestine: e.g., willful killing of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli army and Israel's illegal paramilitary settlers. These Israeli "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention mandate universal prosecution for their perpetrators, whether military or civilian, as well as prosecution for their commanders, whether military or civilian, including Israel's political leaders.
Israel's Crimes Against Humanity against Palestinians
But I want to focus for a moment on Israel's "crime against humanity" against the Palestinian People -- as determined by the U.N. Human Rights Commission itself, set up pursuant to the requirements of the United Nations Charter. What is a "crime against humanity"? This concept goes all the way back to the Nuremberg Charter of 1945 for the trial of the major Nazi war criminals. And in the Nuremberg Charter of 1945, drafted by the United States Government, there was created and inserted a new type of international crime specifically intended to deal with the Nazi persecution of the Jewish People.
The paradigmatic example of a "crime against humanity" is what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People. This is where the concept of crime against humanity came from. And this is what the U.N. Human Rights Commission determined that Israel is currently doing to the Palestinian People: Crimes against humanity. Legally, just like what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jews.
The Precursor to Genocide
Moreover, a crime against humanity is the direct historical and legal precursor to the international crime of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The theory here was that what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People required a special international treaty that would codify and universalize the Nuremberg concept of "crime against humanity." And that treaty ultimately became the 1948 Genocide Convention.
In fairness, you will note that the U.N. Human Rights Commission did not go so far as to condemn Israel for committing genocide against the Palestinian People. But it has condemned Israel for committing crimes against humanity, which is the direct precursor to genocide. And I submit that if something is not done quite soon by the American People and the International Community to stop Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian People, it could very well degenerate into genocide, if Israel is not there already. And in this regard, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is what international lawyers call a genocidaire--one who has already committed genocide in the past.
Giallorosso
08-03-2007, 07:16 PM
u are great silverfaller (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/silverfaller-169573) but i'm realy busy
i will be beside u against thes pple just i need sometime pls
and i will be here
torrentt
08-03-2007, 07:47 PM
i see u like talking about the time 60 years ago and even earlier
lets see the palestinians undisputed leader at that time, a good friend of adolf hitler.
he even crerated a muslim SS unit, to help the nazis kill jews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxjb_deXlo
lets see u make a comment on that
Kirosh
08-03-2007, 10:50 PM
i see u like talking about the time 60 years ago and even earlier
lets see the palestinians undisputed leader at that time, a good friend of adolf hitler.
he even crerated a muslim SS unit, to help the nazis kill jews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxjb_deXlo
lets see u make a comment on that
so way Jews talking about" Nazism" and "crematorium" it now i think more than 60 year did u forget crematorium :shutup:
my country isn't a religious country
i'm from Egypt and we don't teach our kids any of what you are saying.
Yeah. It's not as if Egypt runs anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers or have anti-jewish demonstrations, or show anti-jewish TV-shows or anything. Or that they've made just being a zionist illegal. And let's not talk about the Saudis, real paragons of tolerance they are.
torrentt
08-03-2007, 11:05 PM
i see u like talking about the time 60 years ago and even earlier
lets see the palestinians undisputed leader at that time, a good friend of adolf hitler.
he even crerated a muslim SS unit, to help the nazis kill jews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxjb_deXlo
lets see u make a comment on that
so way Jews talking about" Nazism" and "crematorium" it now i think more than 60 year did u forget crematorium :shutup:
i don't understand what are you saying
i didn't forget anything.
one must not forget such things
first things first :)
u are great silverfaller (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/silverfaller-169573) but i'm realy busy
i will be beside u against thes pple just i need sometime pls
and i will be here
it's not a war my friend we just talk here and you more than welcome to comment and participate
i see u like talking about the time 60 years ago and even earlier
lets see the palestinians undisputed leader at that time, a good friend of adolf hitler.
he even crerated a muslim SS unit, to help the nazis kill jews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxjb_deXlo
lets see u make a comment on that
yes let's make a comment
my friend - allow me to call you friend :) -
this mufti isn't represent all Muslims as Hitler not represent all Germans.
but let's put our selves in this man shoes
-i hope I'm using the right term :) -
this man look around him ; his country under British occupation and the British help the jews to come to his country and take his land
arabs under occupation too they can't help him
Europe want to get rid of jews by sending them to middle east and in their mind they hoped - they were right actually-
Arabs and jews extinct by each other hands
"get rid of them both"
there is no where to go
here in this moment and with all the killing that isreali did when they first came to Palestine as you saw by yourself in dir yassin and else
Hitler came to the picture giving him a helping hand saying to him " help me and I'll help you, we have the same problem ...i will get rid of all the jews even those in your country"
the man who has no where to go ,no one to help him agreed
what you gonna do if you are him ... drop dead .. leave your lands for outsiders coming from Europe saying Palestine is their land .
this man was mislead like all those who went and killed your people and their selves at the same time why?
because you didn't give them another way
what a man can do when you killed his kids and his neighbors,took his land from him, deprive him from water,food even medication .
you said you are surrounding by Arabs and they want to kill you .
who in the Arabs has your power and you name him equal so he can come and fight you.
you one of most advanced countries in the world
you have advanced tanks ,best air force in the Mideast,
man, you have nuclear missiles.
and you say you afraid of Arabs
you want to live in peace ,Arabians also want to live in peace
give them their land ,obey UN resolution 242 , listen to the Arabian initiative which said " all Arabian countries will make peace with isreal and isreal will give the occupied land back"
what you want more than that .
peace for our land .
i guess it's a fair trade :)
my country isn't a religious country
i'm from Egypt and we don't teach our kids any of what you are saying.
Yeah. It's not as if Egypt runs anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers or have anti-jewish demonstrations, or show anti-jewish TV-shows or anything. Or that they've made just being a zionist illegal. And let's not talk about the Saudis, real paragons of tolerance they are.
well,
if there are anti-jewish cartoons in our newspapers
this is free speech you know they can write what they like
democracy, you know this term
anti- jewish tv shows ; also free speech you cannot ban tv shows and newspapers because you don't like what they are writing.
i want to stop here for a moment and talk about something i guess it's important.
equal measures ; see
two years ago - i guess- a danish newspaper published a cartoon that mock the prophet of Islam and when Muslims asks them to apologize their response was " there is nothing to be sorry about, it's free speech we can say whatever we like" and all European countries stood behind this paper
now why don't you do the same when it comes to an Arabian newspaper
I'm calling for equal measures, I'm asking you to be fair
is it hard to be fair ?!!!!!!!
ooh ,i almost forgot Saudi Arabia ,
the king of Saudi Arabia is the one who declared the Arabian initiative which said " all Arabian countries will make peace with isreal and isreal will give the occupied land back"
so they don't want war .
i think you got me
and don't forget "equal measures"
Biggles
08-04-2007, 12:09 AM
Most Israelis are not particularly religious.
The main problem is that two distinct peoples want the same bit of land. This is a pretty intractable problem. The Jews had good reason to flee Europe and Russia and it is perhaps not surprising that they gravitated back to their ancestral homeland. As has often been the case in history, when one displaced group moves it impacts on another group.
This is not a new situation and history has shown that land disputes are not easily resolved. The religious aspect is merely a current manifestation of the problem. In the 50s and 60s the Palestinians did not make a big deal about being Muslim. The Jihadist mentality is a relatively recent development from the 1980s. Such religious movements come and go and may not be that important in the long run. The land issue will, however, remain until an equitable solution that is acceptable to both sides is found.
However, much either side would like the other to simply disappear it is not going to happen. Accepting that fact would be a good starting point for discussions. It goes without saying that both sides in a conflict are guilty of acts they would rather forget. The trouble with revolutions and conflicts generally is that they give opportunity to those who like that sort of thing.
torrentt
08-04-2007, 12:29 AM
silverfaller, check the definition for democracy
also, this mufti did represent the majority of the palestenians
and yes we have an advanced army, and its mostley for deterrent.
if we didn't have such a good army (and i assum thats what u and every other muslim would want) what do you think all the other arab countries would have done somewhere over the years?
and i don't htink you should try to justify terrorists, and hitlers friends
Liberal Democracy
Liberal democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy) is a representative democracy along with the protection of minorities, the rule of law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law), separation of powers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers), and protection of liberties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberties) (thus the name liberal) of speech, assembly, religion, and property. Conversely, an illiberal democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy) is one where the protections that form a liberal democracy are either non-existent, or not enforced.
protection of speech see it protection of speech
i think you now see it
once again
you read what you like to read .
and you talk like you are inside my mind and you know me for years .
all I'm asking isreal to do is to obey the international law and give the occupied land back.
why you don't want to give the land back .
why you just ignore international law if it is not in your benefit and use it if it help you to take more.
you want peace just give the occupied lands back
torrentt
08-04-2007, 12:55 AM
u listen to international laws when its in your interest
u say we must give your allegedly land back, but u don't say its wrong to be terrorists and kill who ever doesn't want to do as u say
we must obey all the international laws which are in favor of the muslims, thats clear.
don't forget the "no terror" law
and i don't think democracy means u canruns anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers or have anti-jewish demonstrations, or show anti-jewish TV-shows or anything. Or that they've made just being a zionist illegal. i think it means u need to respect the minority too.
and i don't know you and i don't wanna know you either
bigboab
08-04-2007, 07:47 AM
Israel returning to the boundaries set for them in 1947/48 would be a good starting point for peace negotiations. A lot of Israelis and a lot of Palestinians would disagree with this. I honestly think that the majority on both sides would agree in the cause of a peaceful settlement. The setting up of an exclusion zone round these borders, policed by th UN forces would be a help to maintaining lasting peace.
zapjb
08-04-2007, 09:39 AM
It's all a trick. A trick by the rich. The rich Americans, the rich arabs & the rich Israelis.
The poor of each country is taught to hate the others.
The rich sit back in private. Sometimes all 3 together. And they laugh at the poor.
torrentt
08-04-2007, 09:47 AM
bigbob u should check the history of occupations in this territory, some territories which where "designated" to the palestinians were occupied by egypt and jordan, then israel occupide it in wars those arab countries started.
none should be given away. main cities where built there.
its clear to me u don't know many things. i will not explain on offhand cos you won't get a clear view on the whole story.
zapjb
08-04-2007, 09:54 AM
Hardly anyone believes me.
It's class struggle. With dodads & razzmatazz thrown in to fool the ignorant.
torrentt
08-04-2007, 10:10 AM
here is a brief description of what happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCv_2UtNTtQ&mode=related&search=
bigboab
08-04-2007, 11:28 AM
here is a brief description of what happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCv_2UtNTtQ&mode=related&search=
If you believe all that rubbish then I am sorry for you.:(
I'm sick of these threads where nothing come up beside the fact that you both brain watched
When will you pull your head out of your ass and realise YOU are a part of the problem..
bigboab
08-04-2007, 12:14 PM
I'm sick of these threads where nothing come up beside the fact that you both brain watched
When will you pull your head out of your ass and realise YOU are a part of the problem..
I think that is what most of us are trying to say.:)
Israel returning to the boundaries set for them in 1947/48 would be a good starting point for peace negotiations. A lot of Israelis and a lot of Palestinians would disagree with this. I honestly think that the majority on both sides would agree in the cause of a peaceful settlement. The setting up of an exclusion zone round these borders, policed by th UN forces would be a help to maintaining lasting peace.
what you just mentioned above is what all arabian countries asking for
thanks for your comment
It's all a trick. A trick by the rich. The rich Americans, the rich arabs & the rich Israelis.
The poor of each country is taught to hate the others.
The rich sit back in private. Sometimes all 3 together. And they laugh at the poor.
good theory
here is a brief description of what happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCv_2UtNTtQ&mode=related&search=
dear, if this thing confirm any thing it will confirm that Palestine was never been yours in the first place and you are just snatched it.
I'm sick of these threads where nothing come up beside the fact that you both brain watched
When will you pull your head out of your ass and realise YOU are a part of the problem..
we are not a part of the problem.
see, all arabians ask for the freedom of the occupied lands under the 242 UN RESOLUTION .
we said this more than millions times but no one want to listen.
@torrentt
i will tell you this for the last time and please open your heart for my words and forget that I'm Arabian.
when you came to Palestine bad and terrible things happened
Europeans' governments sent you hoping that you and the Arabians will finish each other off .
i guess they were right.
don't forget that Egypt is the one who started the peace process with your country and don't forget that till now we the most country in the region helping and giving effort to make peace.
if you think keeping the occupied land will help you so you are wrong it's only will creates more extremists around you .
and make any act of resistance against your occupation legal.
if you evacuate the occupied lands there will be no reason for people to fight you and if they fight you just nuke them. :D
listen man , i know it's hard for you
you've been taught that Arabs and Muslims are bad and want to destroy you ...you have see some Muslims really said that but i assure that not the majority .
we want to live in peace like you.
all Arabians are mad because you are a stubborn brat don't want to give them their land back and killing more and more every day.
i urge you to stop this blood shed i urge you to make peace and i urge you to open your eyes more.
sangos
08-04-2007, 02:32 PM
this thread is useless torrentt (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/torrentt-139155) is defending for the thing he has been taught all of his life and he wont believe any facts that against what he has been taught.....so unless he stop for a sec and take a neutral point of view u may notice there is something wrong !!!
and silverfaller (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/silverfaller-169573) i think u should have cleared that egypt dont have an anti any thing system placed by the gov. and one can be whatever he wants to be and do whatever he want to do as long as he dont be a threat to others !!!
and i wont say isreal people are innocent cuz they kill women and childern and i wont say that palastine are innocent also cuz they did the same thing aganist the islam rules witch i can give u a site to tell u all about it but i wont post it here so i wont be attacked (i will pm it to u if u want or to any one )
but take my point of view u come and set in my home and after some time u said to me get out !!!this is my grandfather house and i must stay in it
what do u think i would do ???
Giallorosso
08-05-2007, 04:57 AM
this thread is useless torrentt (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/torrentt-139155) is defending for the thing he has been taught all of his life and he wont believe any facts that against what he has been taught.....so unless he stop for a sec and take a neutral point of view u may notice there is something wrong !!!
and silverfaller (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/silverfaller-169573) i think u should have cleared that egypt dont have an anti any thing system placed by the gov. and one can be whatever he wants to be and do whatever he want to do as long as he dont be a threat to others !!!
and i wont say isreal people are innocent cuz they kill women and childern and i wont say that palastine are innocent also cuz they did the same thing aganist the islam rules witch i can give u a site to tell u all about it but i wont post it here so i wont be attacked (i will pm it to u if u want or to any one )
but take my point of view u come and set in my home and after some time u said to me get out !!!this is my grandfather house and i must stay in it
what do u think i would do ???
he is a f*** right in every thing he say , except in the link he was talkin about and we don't make our decision from our heads so i'm waitin for ur link man :D if that possible
And about the anti system that u are talkin about in egypt
man pls be a little logical
if they just have anti shoes or anti birds they will be strong
but u know that America won't allow them to have that's for sure
so the whole problem in the arabian countries that America but here leg in the Arabians leader's kneck so they can't make a decision so u know what they have to do (if there is somethin happen in Palestine they put there head in the sand like nothin happen and the poor Arabian people who talk about Palestine they will find themselves in the prison) ....and we are here kick ... :frusty:
so what we can do more than resist and struggle against the occupation to have our freedom like the previous nation like India , south Africa , America and the whole middle east
and no one can say that's not our rights ......
here is a brief description of what happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCv_2UtNTtQ&mode=related&search=
If you believe all that rubbish then I am sorry for you.:(
Well, it's partially true. You might want to watch the movie "Exodus" if you haven't already, which was made back about 1960 before a lot of the politics came intoplay. It's very well made and very interesting, and I believe pretty true.
Remember that the Middle East has been unstable for thousands of years. There were no real formal country boundaries prior to WW I and the current country states were drawn up as a result of the end of WW I. That alone has caused a lot of problems. Following WW II, the UN wanted to give the jews a homeland, and the consensus was that that should be where modern-day Israel is today. That was a decision of the whole UN, not the "Zionist powers" as this movie claims.
Further, when the jews started moving in, they wanted to live peaceably with their neighbors, but the arabs totally resisted, and they started the first of several wars with Israel, losing it after British and US intervention on behalf of the UN. After the first war, the jews took claim to the conquered lands, just as other countries have done throughout history. To the victor go the spoils of war. Then the other arab states claimed all of the remaining Palestinian lands, and since then have done absolutely nothing to help the Palestinians at all. To this day I think a lot of hte Palestinian problems are because of actions of the arabs, not Israel.
So to sum it up, it's mostly political garbage. You can tell when they start referring to "Zionist powers" they have an agenda to promote. In this case it's just GB doing what he does. I have seen some good sites before on this issue but I can't remember where. Just keep an open mind about the topic. There are a lot of groups trying to work against the Israel position, keep that in mind, especially the liberal groups.
Busyman™
08-06-2007, 02:20 AM
As far as I can tell the Arabs rejected the UN split of land.
However, even today Israel occupies more area than the original UN split. Due to the original rejection of the split, Arabs started shit, Israel reacted with force and took more land.
It looks like the Golan Heights area was always part of Syria. the West Bank area for the Arabs has shrunk, the northern part for the Arabs is completely occupied by Israel, and the part for the Arabs south of the Gaza strip is now Israel.
It seems that after the original split, supposed Arab aggression resulted in Israel booting the Arabs.
The problem is that there weren't any real lines drawn as a nation pre-WWII and when there were, "Palestinians didn'r like it.
Arabs will act as if the land is designated for all Arabs but never set up a real modern nation.
Israel did.
Well that's my understanding of it.
[/COLOR]
my country isn't a religious country
i'm from Egypt and we don't teach our kids any of what you are saying.
Yeah. It's not as if Egypt runs anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers or have anti-jewish demonstrations, or show anti-jewish TV-shows or anything. Or that they've made just being a zionist illegal. And let's not talk about the Saudis, real paragons of tolerance they are.
well,
if there are anti-jewish cartoons in our newspapers
this is free speech you know they can write what they like
democracy, you know this term
anti- jewish tv shows ; also free speech you cannot ban tv shows and newspapers because you don't like what they are writing.1
i want to stop here for a moment and talk about something i guess it's important.
equal measures ; see
two years ago - i guess- a danish newspaper published a cartoon that mock the prophet of Islam and when Muslims asks them to apologize their response was " there is nothing to be sorry about, it's free speech we can say whatever we like" and all European countries stood behind this paper
now why don't you do the same when it comes to an Arabian newspaper
Yes, let's take a moment to reflect on that.
One danish cartoonist makes a few cartoons about how he imagines terrorists view Mohammed, and millions of muslims protest, saying that all of Denmark should apologize (and that's the more reasonable of them). Some even wanted to implicate all of Scandinavia, and right on this board someone even made the cartoons out to be reflective of some sort of collective opinion all Scandinavians held (fuck, just re-read your post and saw you said all of Europe stood behind it, you really don't have a clue), or somesuch. The cartoons were obviously some sort of great injustice done to all muslims, according to what seemed like a majority of people in several arab nations.
At the very same time, the same countries (including Saudi Arabia) ran anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers. There had already been anti-jewish demonstrations, and, obviously, there were plenty of religious and/or polictical leaders making jews and/or westerners out to be criminals, infidels deserving to die, and so on.
In the real world, outside of your head, this is what regular people call hypocrisy. Freedom of speech is the lamest excuse ever to use, when you have no respect for it, as all the people demonstrating about the cartoons, and the officials trying to put pressure on Denmarks, and the people running the same newspapers that published the anti-jewish cartoons didn't, obviously didn't.
Now, to get back to what the entire thing was about (which you seem to have missed) this is what children are exposed to through that media, and through that society. Someone makes fun of the prophet - it's wrong, and they should burn in hell, meanwhile, making fun of people following another creed is quite all right. Hell, it's freedom of speech, and should be recommended since some of them are so very bad (according to the media, at least).
And, together with that, to tie this in with other things said by the thread-starter, it doesn't seem that strange to me that that Israel at large might feel threatened by surrounding nations (or that they are making an effort to keep support from the west), seeing as lots of people in those nations seem well happy to continue the hate-mongering and keep the agitators, which the governments of those countries seem to have very little issue with, if any at all (and dissenting voices hardly seem to be listened to at all).
I'd also bet that if Israel ever lost the support it has, and its nukes, it'd be a question of who came up with an excuse to attack Israel first, rather than if someone would attack them, given the reigning sentiments.
=-=
Now, what seems interesting to me, right now, on this board, is that currently we've got several non-palestinian, semi-literate chaps from countries with an obviously biased media, willing to criticise Israel, here and in the inbred-section.
Yet I haven't seen many Israelis send much of the same the other way here lately, or at all. In fact, of the Israelis I've met IRL, they haven't been anti-muslim at all. But then again, neither have any of the muslims I've met IRL made any sort of blanket anti-israeli, or anti-jewish statements, not even this former palestian bloke I knew.
People who haven't grown up somewhere where they were fed notions about how bad jews or Israel are, tend to view jews and israelis as a heterogenous group.
If someone argued about how bad some israeli laws are, or how bad past and present governments have been, that would be fine. But idiots making threads like this, or defending them, should fuck right off.
'cos listing israeli errors (and I see some really moronic takes on it in there at that), rather than seeing them as steps in the escalation of ongoing conflicts, is the worst sort of argument there is to justify anything.
"We hate you 'cos you did that and that and that" is a pretty fucking dodgy way to argue, when you take out the full context.
brotherdoobie
08-06-2007, 03:13 PM
Well said, Snee.
-bd
to be fair i thought the video was accurate but very misleading, the bias was more in what was not said rather than what was said, e.g. no mention of the holocaust or the balfour declaration
i've quoted this before, but
The territory was plagued with chronic unrest pitting native Arabs against Jewish immigrants (who now made up about a third the population, owning about 6% of the land).
The UN set up a special committee which recommended splitting the territory into separate Jewish and Palestinian states ...The partition plan (1947) gave 57% of Palestine to the Jewish state and 43.53% to the Arab state, with an international enclave around Jerusalem.
no compensation, no democracy, no real explanation of why immigrants deserved it, not even an explanation of why the majority of the land should be given to the minority of the population. Is there seriously anyone here who will say that this was fair and if it was their country today that they would accept that?
well said, snee :D
first of all, denmark didn't apologize for publishing those cartoons and about this issue you just have no clue so let me enlighten you
1-danish government refuses to apologize till islamic countries refuses to buy anything from denmark and the danish government felt they will lose a big marcket for their goods they just sent a feeble apology
2-no pressure put to stop those cartoons in fact after the first cartoons published another one was published in france and some again published in some european countries so where is the pressure your talking about.
about anti-jewish cartoons and anti-jewish newspapers there is no such thing
if you mean anti-isreali cartoons that a different thing
cause isrealis occupied our lands and some people in our country seeing this not fair.
i'm really sorry they feeling that cause i think everyone in the whole world see we are blessing by this occupation:D
there is no hypocracy about it .you are the one that don't use an equal measures.
now let's talk about heads. :D
outside my head isreal killed tens of people daily in the occupied land
and i guess this outside your head too.
man, you watch too much tv instead read more about the whole issue
and i said before and i'll say it again we have nothing against jews
we want isreal to give us our land back and then only then there will be peace.
about your talk about you don't see many isreali in this thread
well, they just keeping a little profile because they know the arguement won't turn to their benefit
@skizo
Mideast before ww2 had a well drawn borders in fact
jordan was a kingdom since the end of ww1 and syria and lebnon were under french occupation with well known borders and palestine was under british occupation too.
so palestine was known as a country not just unrecognized peice of land for anyone to take
UN didn't permit jews to have a homeland in palestine ,britain did by the belfur declaration 1917. UN tried to solve the issue by split the land.
but arabs refused the split because the jews had no right to come from Europe to establish a country in arabian soil.
and then the jewish gangs emerged and made all those massacres -i was mentioned- in order to terrorize the arabs to leave their lands.
any way this history, and it seems that no one won't to listen any more
to history.
now u said you are supporting isreal cause some anti-isreali cartoons.you give her the right to bomb our towns till we stop publishing those cartoons.
how thoughtful of you , how kind your souls are.
again people
all we want is our lands back under 242 UN RESOLUTION
i guess we have the right to ask for our land back but we don't have the right to make cartoons ;)
i had to edit my comment cause of this thought.
since i have opened this thread no only few discussed the facts i present here.
the rest just discussed the mentality of the thread poster thinking he is a Moran to write those bad things against their beloved goddess isreal and some discuss Islam and some discuss cartoons.
this thread is about isreal and why people hate it not about Islam not about jews not about my mentality and not about asses :D
and before you twist the facts ,all my comments out of the idea of this thread were only to answer your comments .
so please stick with the thread idea and don't take us to another debates and if you like i will open a thread about cartoons to lighten up your day.
@skizo
I said WW1, and no, it didn't. That's why the borders moved so often in that era as they were not well established.
jordan was a kingdom since the end of ww1 and syria and lebnon were under french occupation with well known borders and palestine was under british occupation too.
so palestine was known as a country not just unrecognized peice of land for anyone to take
UN didn't permit jews to have a homeland in palestine ,britain did by the belfur declaration 1917. UN tried to solve the issue by split the land.
but arabs refused the split because the jews had no right to come from Europe to establish a country in arabian soil.
and then the jewish gangs emerged and made all those massacres -i was mentioned- in order to terrorize the arabs to leave their lands.
I like how your whole post had almost NOTHING to do with what I commented on, insinuated I said things I did not, and makes you appear holier than thou. Well done. :dabs:
I'm also sure that you don't believe the Israelis are entitled to the land. I'm sure the Byzantines didn't think the Palestinians were entitled to the lands either when they decided to take it. :wacko:
any way this history, and it seems that no one won't to listen any more
to history.
now u said you are supporting isreal cause some anti-isreali cartoons.you give her the right to bomb our towns till we stop publishing those cartoons.
how thoughtful of you , how kind your souls are.
again people
all we want is our lands back under 242 UN RESOLUTION
i guess we have the right to ask for our land back but we don't have the right to make cartoons ;)
WTF is this? I never said anything even remotely close to this. :blink:
Busyman™
08-07-2007, 03:08 AM
Palestine was not a nation but was an understood tract of land from what I gather.
Who was the leader of Palestine?
What was the governement made of?
At the same time how could Israelis just take an Arabs person's home?
I see how this conflict arose.
If Arabs walk around on a certain tract of land but don't live on that particular tract, does that entitle them to tell anyone not Arab to fuck off?
Does it entitle an Israeli to tell the Arab to fuck of for the same reason?
It seems to me that what happened to American Indians was headed for Palestinians but unlike the Indians, the Palestinians are much stronger in number to just fuck off.
I think this a prime example of "what you think is okay is today's world just ain't to some people".
@skizo
well ,i'm sorry
i wasn't talking to you after 3 or 4 sentences but i forget to point it out
and yes the isrealis didn't entitle the land in the first place ,what right European jews had to claim an Arabian land some of them came from Russia and Ethiopia you want to tell me that a Russian guy has a right to settle in Palestine it will be like an Arabians has a right to built a country in Spain cause they used to live there
but in reality, isreal is a country now and I'm addressing its people to withdraw from occupied land cause this will end the blood shed and will allow all of us live in peace.
and my friend this what i'm trying to say
if isreal gave the land back- i mean the occupied lands- there will be no reason for all this blood shed and violence .
i wish you all believe when i say "all we want as Arabians is a Palestine state on the whole occupied lands under the 242 UN RESOLUTION "
@bussyman
many Palestinians today living in refugee camps all over the worlds still had their keys for their houses which were been destroyed by isrealis and they had towns and farms and local police and the reason they had no government that they were under British occupation so there were a British ruler.
so Palestinians weren't walk around this land they were living on it.
and you are right it's like American Indians issue.
and yes the Palestinians won't fuck off till they had their freedom and declare their counrty over the Gaza strip and the western bank.
SKGunners
08-07-2007, 04:06 AM
LOL, who the hell cares about this anyways? I guess some people have too much free time to talk about this. Just enjoy your lives and keep moving forward.
LOL, who the hell cares about this anyways?
Israelis, for one. :ermm:
The is the Drawing Room and is meant for on-topic, serious discussion. Please leave those posts in the Lounge.
4play
08-07-2007, 12:42 PM
first of all, denmark didn't apologize for publishing those cartoons and about this issue you just have no clue so let me enlighten you
1-danish government refuses to apologize till islamic countries refuses to buy anything from denmark and the danish government felt they will lose a big marcket for their goods they just sent a feeble apology
2-no pressure put to stop those cartoons in fact after the first cartoons published another one was published in france and some again published in some european countries so where is the pressure your talking about.
So Denmark didn't apologise for these cartoons and then the next sentence you say they did. Why should the government apologise for the action of a company in its borders when they are complying with the laws. Granted the cartoons may have been insensitive towards Muslims but they did raise valid points about terrorists twisting Islam to their own ends. Its a shame really that actual Muslims where forbidden from viewing them.
Oh yeah another was published in France and the editor in charge was promptly sacked so there was pressure put on people not to publish more.
I think what snee was trying to point out was that the Muhammed cartoons where trying to put a point across that Islam has problems with radicals that need solving. while on the other hand according to quite a few sources Palestinians make rather horrifying music videos aimed at children to incite hatred.
this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad8ETI9B8rw) for example, yet the Arab world don't seem to care about it. hypocrisy at its finest.
well, feeble apology don't consider an apology.
the problem about those cartoons that it included the prophet muhammed u can choose any one to paint yet to choose my prophet to picture in nasty way and i saw the cartoons like most of Muslims saw it and we were mad because you choose to deliver your message through picturing our prophet in a bad way .
and the pressure you talking about came from Islamic countries not Europe
i remembered many Europeans' government stand besides both papers .
about the video
we as Muslims and Arab in the majority hate radicalism and refuse their acts .
but isn't a fact that many isreali soldiers refused to do military service in the occupied land because they refused to the horrible acts they order to do by their leaders.?!
isn't a fact that isreali soldiers killed kids and women in Gaza and in geneen ?!
isn't a fact that an Arabian correspondent been shut to death by isreali snipper earlier last month ?!
isn't a fact that isreal bombed a UN base along with Lebanon women and children in qana?!
and yet you came here trying to defend isreal and yet you came here and post one video when a Palestinian shot at an isreali helmet and you call this terrorism :)
here is some videos about isreali terrorism
i have to warn you these videos have a horrible images and it's 18+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NstwYPVOGcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-jf8ZH90Vk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prLPvqttW9c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG7-9PJ7Kpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCUQj2_D94c
and here is a documentary made by European
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnA-X2EaIS8
and here is a kid and his father being killed by isreali
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOlzvhx9qOw
and here is a video discribing how isreali soldiers killed a palestinian kid and they erases the video which was taken for the incident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAR-0XL9n-g
if you want more i'll post millions videos but do you actully want to see them.
i doubt it ;)
4play
08-07-2007, 02:19 PM
Im sure there are also plenty of videos on youtube showing exactly what Palestinian terrorists have done in the name of their country and religion as well. Posting these really is pointless as most people here already realised that both sides have committed atrocities.
The plain simple fact is both sides are as bad as each other and there is no current deal that will satisfy both sides. So the killings will continue, the videos will keep appearing on youtube and the hatred between them will remain. People posting video clips and shouting look what these bastards have done while their own people carry out similar atrocities is just plain stupid.
well, feeble apology don't consider an apology.
the problem about those cartoons that it included the prophet muhammed u can choose any one to paint yet to choose my prophet to picture in nasty way and i saw the cartoons like most of Muslims saw it and we were mad because you choose to deliver your message through picturing our prophet in a bad way .
and the pressure you talking about came from Islamic countries not Europe
i remembered many Europeans' government stand besides both papers .
If you read the piece that went with it they intended the picture of Muhammed with a bomb on his head to be the extremists view of what Islam is. Most people understood the piece for what it was meant to be as an attack on the way extremists have subverted Islam to fit their own needs. Chances are the writer in question never knew it was forbidden to draw a picture of Muhammed since i never did until after news of this spread. As far as i know the paper in question never issued an apology and in my opinion they shouldn't have to. oh yeah and having mass protests and bringing huge amounts of media attention to the cartoons wasnt the best way to make them go away.
Busyman™
08-07-2007, 02:48 PM
Well I have the start of a solution.
Roll back the lines to the UN drawings.
From what I gather, either through Israeli or Palestinian aggression, the Palestinians lost those lines.
Since it is not clear who started what, the bottom line is that those were never mandated by the UN for Israel.
From there we can explore whether Israel even had the the right to declare their own county in the first place.
Palestinians need to get their act together. In today's world there will squables over land if it not clear what the hell is yours.
I've seen pictures of "Palestine" when it was bigger but other countries took over the land.
Was it okay cuz they were Arab countries. Admittedly those tracts of land were on the fringes. Israel is in the middle.
It seems part of the problem is racism/"religiousism".
[B]well said, snee :D
[COLOR=Black]first of all, denmark didn't apologize for publishing those cartoons and about this issue you just have no clue so let me enlighten you
1-danish government refuses to apologize till islamic countries refuses to buy anything from denmark and the danish government felt they will lose a big marcket for their goods they just sent a feeble apology
2-no pressure put to stop those cartoons in fact after the first cartoons published another one was published in france and some again published in some european countries so where is the pressure your talking about.
4play already brought up the fact that you are contradicting yourself, however, the wrongs don't stop there, so:
You really need to trust your media a bit less and start thing for yourself. When it comes to pressure, that didn't just (you've already given example of two kinds of pressure Denmark was subjected to) come from muslim countries, but there were also debates within Denmark, as well as in the surrounding countries regarding whether the paper was in the wrong, and like yourself, many chose to disregard the fact that the cartoons weren't intended to be anti-islamic, but rather anti-extremist. What with people complaining and so forth, I'd hardly call that a lack of pressure.
As an aside, I should probably also point out that way before the protests against the cartoons started, the cartoons had already been in at least one newspaper in the middle east (in Egypt, even). And it took a long time for people to get upset about it. In fact, if one was a bit cynical, one might suspect that someone worked very hard to make people upset about it.
about anti-jewish cartoons and anti-jewish newspapers there is no such thing
That's odd, seeing as how there have been reports of cartoons labelled as anti-semitic (of the anti-jewish variety, obviously) or just anti-jewish in papers in your part of the world for years now. Racial sterotypes and all.
But then again, maybe they were intended to be anti-israeli...
if you mean anti-isreali cartoons that a different thing
cause isrealis occupied our lands and some people in our country seeing this not fair.
Yes, and every Israeli, no matter their age, in whichever part of the country has acted against you, or your country, then?
there is no hypocracy about it .you are the one that don't use an equal measures.
I daresay there is. Millions of people start whining about a cartoonist breaking some old (and fairly pointless) taboo, claiming he's insulting them as a people. The same people seem to think it's alright to put down an entire group of people, the Israelis. And blame a whole country about the cartoons as well. That is hypocrisy at its finest.
now let's talk about heads. :D
[COLOR=Blue]outside my head isreal killed tens of people daily in the occupied land
and i guess this outside your head too.
Does this mean the other side has done nothing, or that you aren't preaching hatred of all of Israel right now? You should try imagining them as people, individuals, rather than what you seem to have been taught abou them as a whole, for a change.
[COLOR=Red]man, you watch too much tv instead read more about the whole issue
You should take your own advice, and this time, you should try thinking for yourself and go outside of your usual biased sources.
and i said before and i'll say it again we have nothing against jews
Could have fooled me. But I guess you just hate an entire nation full of people.
we want isreal to give us our land back and then only then there will be peace.
Riiight.
[COLOR=Black]about your talk about you don't see many isreali in this thread
well, they just keeping a little profile because they know the arguement won't turn to their benefit
Or they don't see the point in arguing with a thread you've made to justify people making personal attacks on someone.
@4play
i will agree with you that intentions behind those cartoons were good but can't you agree with me that the way it's published and using the prophet of islam was inappropriate
and i agree with you that mass protest didn't help it and we should let it go but .
about the videos you know there are millions of videos about isreali brutality but idoubt there is even 20 videos about Palestinians'
@busyman
i agree to everything you say
but racism isn't the issue .
if isreal give the land back it will end everything.
@the rest
there is nothing to comment about :)
ooh, except
well done snee ;)
4play
08-07-2007, 05:35 PM
There are quite a few videos on youtube to do with some of the evil's the Palestinians are up to. took me 3 seconds to find a video of a 15 year old child who had strapped explosives to himself to kill soldiers at a checkpoint and there are lots more than that. anyway does a higher ratio of bad things they have done make them worse then you or both as bad as each other.
if isreal give the land back it will end everything.
you really don't expect this to happen do you?
do you really expect these 7 odd million people to leave everything they have built and their lives behind to move somewhere else?
The way most people see it this will end one of three ways.
1) proper borders are set-up that both agree is acceptable
2) you both share the same country and have some form of power sharing
3) some one is wiped out.
ooh dear
i meant by the occupied land =Gaza strip , western bank and Golan heights .
and it's our right to ask for them under the international law and under UN 242 RESOLUTION.
I'm not asking them to leave because it's impossible and not logical
I'm asking them to withdraw from all the lands they occupied in 1967
to give Palestinians a chance to build their own country.
and i think it can be done if isreal stop to be stubborn and give us the land back.
about the borders
there is a well drawn borders which is acceptable from Arabians and the whole world except isreal !
4play
the only reason radicals in Islamic countries uses to attack isreal is isreal occupied Arabian land and it refuses to listen to the whole world and it disobey the international law.
if we eliminate this reason ,people won't listen to them
i really want peace ,many Arabians want but how can we accomplish this?
isreal don't want to give the land back
and all I'm trying to tell isreali people is to give the occupied lands back to make peace and end this struggle.
dear friend ,
people here like everywhere else thinks we want isreali to die out
few of our people want that but the majority only want the land back and want to see a Palestinian state along with isreali state .
here is a map showing how occupied the lands since 1947
http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/israel-palestine%20map.jpg
AND HERE IS ANOTHER ONE SHOWING UN PARTITION IN 1947
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1947-un-partition-plan-reso.htmlhttp://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/newpdf/Partition-Armistice.gif
there are alot of maps man but who will follow them.
peat moss
08-07-2007, 06:41 PM
I'm a simple man and could never understand the religious struggles in the Middle East. Who said an Eye for an Eye ? I always liked that quote , and will try to continue to teach my children tolerance not ignorance . The haltered is taught from cradle to grave on both sides and not much you can do about that sadly .
I'll get back to my favorite show the Little Mosque on the Prairie and leave you all to debate .
torrentt
08-07-2007, 06:47 PM
Im sure there are also plenty of videos on youtube showing exactly what Palestinian terrorists have done in the name of their country and religion as well. Posting these really is pointless as most people here already realised that both sides have committed atrocities.
The plain simple fact is both sides are as bad as each other and there is no current deal that will satisfy both sides. So the killings will continue, the videos will keep appearing on youtube and the hatred between them will remain. People posting video clips and shouting look what these bastards have done while their own people carry out similar atrocities is just plain stupid.
i'm more then sure that every nation, if was in the situation israel is in, would have acted much much more drastically then how israel reacts to the palestinians that shoots rockets into israel everyday, and invade into it in order to kill civilians.
don't forget israel shows much patiece and restraint and gives them water, electricity, jobs..
i don't get it
it's like we are moving in a circle :)
torrentt
let's stop arguing for a moment and talk
me and you agreed that there is a problem regardless who caused it
we need me and you to solve it
my solution is:
1- isreal evacuate the ocupied land under UN 242 resolution and we get UN TROOPS to watch the the borders in both sides.
2- all acts against isreal stop and any act from any arabian group will be responded by both arabs and isreal.
3-making peace treaty bet. isreal and arab countries.
what you think of this ?
please answer my question and don't change the subject :)
torrentt
08-07-2007, 08:18 PM
i don't get it
it's like we are moving in a circle :)
torrentt
let's stop arguing for a moment and talk
me and you agreed that there is a problem regardless who caused it
we need me and you to solve it
my solution is:
1- isreal evacuate the ocupied land under UN 242 resolution and we get UN TROOPS to watch the the borders in both sides.
2- all acts against isreal stop and any act from any arabian group will be responded by both arabs and isreal.
3-making peace treaty bet. isreal and arab countries.
what you think of this ?
please answer my question and don't change the subject :)
let's stop arguing for a moment and talk
i'm not arguing with any1
we need me and you to solve it
i'm sure if we do come to understanding (and we probably won't), it wouldn't change a thing
1- isreal evacuate the ocupied land under UN 242 resolution and we get UN TROOPS to watch the the borders in both sides.
read what 4play said about it.
2- all acts against isreal stop and any act from any arabian group will be responded by both arabs and isreal.
u can't bring peace with terror, these are totaly opposite things
other then that, many of your terror groups don't want to see even 1 israeli in this land.
3-making peace treaty bet. isreal and arab countries.
what you think of this ?
peace is great, but its hard to make it with people who kill the oposition in the government
anyway, about 70%-80% of Jordan's population are palestinians, i guess jordan is palestine, but u want israel too?
dam it torrentt :)
you are stubborn
i said it before isrealis are stubborn
any way
well, it will make a hell of difference if we come to understanding.
and those groups you are talking about will have no place when peace take place and we will haunt them down in both sides if they won't stop their militaryacts.
and we don't want isreal we want the occupied lands.
torrentt
08-07-2007, 08:54 PM
dam it torrentt :)
you are stubborn
i said it before isrealis are stubborn
any way
well, it will make a hell of difference if we come to understanding.
and those groups you are talking about will have no place when peace take place and we will haunt them down in both sides if they won't stop their militaryacts.
and we don't want isreal we want the occupied lands.
mean while the only one who hunts them down is israel.
u have your police. but its hard when u'r government is a terror group.
Busyman™
08-07-2007, 11:51 PM
SAM, you must realize that there will be greater resistance if muslim fucks keep bombing everyone.
I'm sure there are Israelis that just wanna wipe Palestinians the fuck out. There would be more sympathy if folks were peaceful about it.
I doubt blacks in America would have made inroads if we all decided to "kill whitey" en masse. It would've made those whites that felt our plight go along with the racist white fucks.
@torrentt
we all hunting down terrorist groups but me and you have a different definition for terrorism while you consider anyone raises a gun against your occupation troops is terrorist ,i consider them a legal resistance.
and to don't get me wrong osama ben laden is terrorist no doubt but not all islamic groups out there are terrorist
and I'm from Egypt and by country is ruled by an elected government not a group of terror .
from your words it seems you don't want to give peace chance only because you think it won't do you any good
man , every time Palestine and isreal gad a truth ; isreal went a bomb a town or cut electricity or put people in jail or cut water or deprive people from going to Aqsa mosque for praying or do all this stuff to gather and when Palestine responded they call them terrorists
SO WE BACK IN THIS CIRCLE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
@bussyman
i like your talk man
but you know that resistance against occupation is legal under all human and international law.
i guess this resistance doesn't use flowers it uses guns
and take the French resistance against the Nazis or the American resistance against British occupation .
we didn't call those terrorists.
occupation is illegal and isreal is one who occupied the Palestine lands they should get out from occupied lands first .
it's international law and it's human rights if isreal has a problem after that with any group it can go to UN security council like it did when it lost her battle against hezb allah
but i guess isreal doesn't obey international law till it lost the battle.
i feel sorry that isreali people don't want to see the truth .
i feel sorry they rejected the hand that offer peace and want to complete this blood shed to the end
..........................................................
you can talk now as you like isrealis say whatever you say or do whatever you like but don't forget
maybe the price of peace is high but the price of war you cann't afford
jetje
08-08-2007, 09:42 AM
Take out all politician, give all the people food and work, give the children education and a Playstation (or wii/xbox) and there will be peace....
simple as that.
Everyone that is not a politician is sick and tired of the fightings the suicide bombings the continous destruction of whatever good that is built up by hardworking simple orinairy people. There is no parent that wants his child to be a suicide killer. But the everyones i'm talking about aren't pulling the political strings. As it isn't in the whole world.....
Every religion is about the good of people, be good to eachother, live in peace and be happy. Every religion is against killing. Parents wants the best for their children. They don't care about Jew, Moslim, Christian. They just want to raise their children healthy and in peace!
The people of Libanon were building up their country, it started to be a good place to live. People were stopping to think about war, occupation of land, religious strugles.
That was not in the interest of Hamas and Fatah. Who were fighting about the power. That fight causes a civilian war that threw the country 10 years back in time.
Simply because it went to well in that country. A happy teenager won't give his live for 'the' cause. So make the children unhappy again and they will do that. A civilian that has a good life won't donate to a militatnt party like Hamas. So rob him of his future and he will defend 'the cause'. He will pay for his 'protection' against the evil (Israel).
It's all about politics, who has the power! Not about religion... that's just the excuse.
torrentt
08-08-2007, 09:47 AM
@torrentt
we all hunting down terrorist groups but me and you have a different definition for terrorism while you consider anyone raises a gun against your occupation troops is terrorist ,i consider them a legal resistance.
and to don't get me wrong osama ben laden is terrorist no doubt but not all islamic groups out there are terrorist
and I'm from Egypt and by country is ruled by an elected government not a group of terror .
from your words it seems you don't want to give peace chance only because you think it won't do you any good
man , every time Palestine and isreal gad a truth ; isreal went a bomb a town or cut electricity or put people in jail or cut water or deprive people from going to Aqsa mosque for praying or do all this stuff to gather and when Palestine responded they call them terrorists
SO WE BACK IN THIS CIRCLE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
we all hunting down terrorist groups but me and you have a different definition for terrorism while you consider anyone raises a gun against your occupation troops is terrorist ,i consider them a legal resistance.
and to don't get me wrong osama ben laden is terrorist no doubt but not all islamic groups out there are terrorist
and I'm from Egypt and by country is ruled by an elected government not a group of terror
well, i was talking about the palestinians not egypt
anyway, its pretty simple to define a terrorist:
if u go inside other country will one goal- to kill as many as civilians as possible before u'r stopped, your a terrorist.
if u planned such an attack, u'r a toerrorist.
if u helped launching it in any form, that means you assist to commit a terror attack - u need to be punished as well.
if u go and shoot a soldier and you find yourself dead, don't be surprised.
same about sending your kid to do it.
if u'r launching rockets each day into israel, u'r a terrorist also.
i don't think its realy hard to define who is a terrorist. but as i understood u disagree.
from your words it seems you don't want to give peace chance only because you think it won't do you any good
man , every time Palestine and isreal gad a truth ; isreal went a bomb a town or cut electricity or put people in jail or cut water or deprive people from going to Aqsa mosque for praying or do all this stuff to gather and when Palestine responded they call them terrorists
SO WE BACK IN THIS CIRCLE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
well, after all i said above is done, israel can cut the electriciy it gives the pelestinians, and cut the water it gives to them as well.
and about bombing a town, which is a lie cos we don't bomb towns, we hunt leaders of terror groups and if they travle by car we bomb them.
if u have a better way for doing it u may do so, but u'r actually supports them
jetje
08-08-2007, 09:59 AM
anyway, its pretty simple to define a terrorist
Someone's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
It's just the perspective your willing to see.
Americans kill citizens in Iraq... are they terrorists?
Same as the UN troops in Afghanistan?
It's not that easy as you say to define terrorist.
In WWII there was an underground resitance against Hitler's Germans. As they were the ruling party (chosen or not) resistance with use of weapons was by your definitions a terrorist deed.
That's something i don't dare to say against my granddad ;)
torrentt
08-08-2007, 10:12 AM
anyway, its pretty simple to define a terrorist
Someone's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
It's just the perspective your willing to see.
Americans kill citizens in Iraq... are they terrorists?
Same as the UN troops in Afghanistan?
It's not that easy as you say to define terrorist.
In WWII there was an underground resitance against Hitler's Germans. As they were the ruling party (chosen or not) resistance with use of weapons was by your definitions a terrorist deed.
That's something i don't dare to say against my granddad ;)
if u'r goal is to kill as many as citizens as possible then u'r a terrorist
Barbarossa
08-08-2007, 10:14 AM
Don't be ridiculous.
jetje
08-08-2007, 10:25 AM
Someone's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
It's just the perspective your willing to see.
Americans kill citizens in Iraq... are they terrorists?
Same as the UN troops in Afghanistan?
It's not that easy as you say to define terrorist.
In WWII there was an underground resitance against Hitler's Germans. As they were the ruling party (chosen or not) resistance with use of weapons was by your definitions a terrorist deed.
That's something i don't dare to say against my granddad ;)
if u'r goal is to kill as many as citizens as possible then u'r a terrorist
if you had said to spread as many fear as possible i almost could have agreed. ;)
That's imho the greater goal terrorist have. Spread so much fear that fear alone destabilize a whole nation.:ph34r:
See the USA, altough freedom is all that's important (O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!) actions against terrorism, like the patriot act made them a lot less free.
mievmo
08-08-2007, 11:31 AM
man... pls stop talking trash.
u know exactly what are the arabs soldier are and specially palestine, here is an pic for u all:
http://rotter.name/User_files/nor/468980105dbc77e5.jpg
now u say ??
mievmo
08-08-2007, 11:32 AM
and another little link:
http://rotter.net/israel/
just read it.
jetje
08-08-2007, 12:11 PM
man... pls stop talking trash.
u know exactly what are the arabs soldier are and specially palestine, here is an pic for u all:
http://rotter.name/User_files/nor/468980105dbc77e5.jpg
now u say ??
time for therapy ;)
you also could see this
http://rotter.net/israel/43.jpg vs http://www.jr.co.il/pictures/israel/army/jriar100.jpg
torrentt
08-08-2007, 12:49 PM
time for therapy ;)
you also could see this
http://rotter.net/israel/43.jpg vs http://www.jr.co.il/pictures/israel/army/jriar100.jpg
u can also show a pic of a 5 years old palestinian crying, and in another pic show airplanes and tank and ships, if u want to create a Propaganda
ooh, who cares about propaganda and who cares about politics?
we are talking about people lives
torrentt, they aren't crossing your borders because you occupied their lands so actully there is no borders to cross but if you are admitting that gaza strip and western bank are not yours so why don't you give it back then and end this talk and blood shed.
all my life i thought peace is possible that what they taught us in school and told us in speeches .
they told us :
prophet muhammed when he arrived in madina where many jews lived he made a peace treaty with and live with in peace for a long period
i thought peace is possible
forsake of our children
but i guess it's a dream with isreali mentality that want everything and don't want to give anything
refusing to reason or to talk
bombing towns and killing innocents and they saying they are terrorists
i deliver here documents for many massacres and horrible things did by isreali
they didn't even disscuss it they turn their faces in arrogance and take about war.
i'm tired of saying it but i have to
occupied lands for peace
plain and simple
jetje
08-08-2007, 02:23 PM
u can also show a pic of a 5 years old palestinian crying, and in another pic show airplanes and tank and ships, if u want to create a Propaganda
hmmm... i was only refering to the link with all the pictures you gave http://rotter.net/israel/
so whose propoganda???
torrentt
08-08-2007, 02:29 PM
u can also show a pic of a 5 years old palestinian crying, and in another pic show airplanes and tank and ships, if u want to create a Propaganda
hmmm... i was only refering to the link with all the pictures you gave http://rotter.net/israel/
so whose propoganda???
yes its a link to show to all the people that think that the palestinians are poor children that israel kill them and their mothers with no reason
but u'r reaction to it was the will to prove otherwise
torrentt
08-08-2007, 02:46 PM
ooh, who cares about propaganda and who cares about politics?
we are talking about people lives
torrentt, they aren't crossing your borders because you occupied their lands so actully there is no borders to cross but if you are admitting that gaza strip and western bank are not yours so why don't you give it back then and end this talk and blood shed.
all my life i thought peace is possible that what they taught us in school and told us in speeches .
they told us :
prophet muhammed when he arrived in madina where many jews lived he made a peace treaty with and live with in peace for a long period
i thought peace is possible
forsake of our children
but i guess it's a dream with isreali mentality that want everything and don't want to give anything
refusing to reason or to talk
bombing towns and killing innocents and they saying they are terrorists
i deliver here documents for many massacres and horrible things did by isreali
they didn't even disscuss it they turn their faces in arrogance and take about war.
i'm tired of saying it but i have to
occupied lands for peace
plain and simple
u want land, only then u'll stop killing
its not peace u want
who wants everything and don't want to give anything?
its u
u want all the terrorists in israel prison to be freed, people who are resposnsible to the death of tens of citizens, for 1 israeli soldier, who we havn't seen over a year, we don't know if he is even alive.
but last month we freed about 250 prisoners who were in israel prison cos they failed to murder, or helped to execute a terror act, or are members in terror groups etc..
and we didn't ask anything in return
we give u water and electricity and jobs, what do u give in return? - while we let your people inside israel to work here, u penetrate in people with bombs or guns, some even try to kill the soldiers who are supervising at the barrier
u say u will stop killing if we give you land?
are u listening to yourself? u don't realy want peace. if u did, u would stop killing and start negotiating. palestinians can start with hamas acknowledging israel's right to be existed.
u want land, only then u'll stop killing
its not peace u want
I don't actually think he's killed anyone, though.
We don't even know if he's been in palestine, seems like he's egyptian for all intents and purposes.
but last month we freed about 250 prisoners who were in israel prison cos they failed to murder, or helped to execute a terror act, or are members in terror groups etc..
and we didn't ask anything in return
"failed" as in "whoops, the bomb I just set didn't go off" or failed meaning that they didn't actually do anything in the first place? :unsure:
we give u water and electricity and jobs, what do u give in return? - while we let your people inside israel to work here, u penetrate in people with bombs or guns, some even try to kill the soldiers who are supervising at the barrier
Not sure that's him, or his people, really, unless you count all arabs or something.
=-=
SAM, you understood busy's point, right?
The french resistance wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the armies coming from the outside, pushing the germans out.
I'd wager the germans hadn't let go of France at all, if it had only been the resistance they were up against. And furthermore, the french resistance didn't go into Germany, blowing civilians up there.
Imagine being an israeli in charge and wanting peace...
On one side you've got right-wing hardliners, wanting to expand, on the other you've got palestinians, and terrorists claiming to fight for all palestinians. And on the outside you've got arab states of which some won't even recognise that your nation has the right to exist, where there are demonstrations against you, and religious leaders as well as media telling people they should hate you. And in the middle you've got a large group of people who'd really like to survive until tomorrow.
Imagine your choices:
Giving up land will have the right-wing nutters yelling that you are a pussy, and that you are giving in to the terrorists, and they'll probably have the support of a lot of scared or angry people who have lost someone or are afraid of losing someone.
Trying for some sort of compromise will make no one happy, because the palestinians will think you owe them more, while some on the other side will think you are giving in to the terrorists.
Bombing israelis won't just scare them, see? It'll also make a lot of people angry, and give other, some rather nasty, people reasons to argue in favour of no giving away anything.
I really don't think it's done anyone any good, 'cept for a bunch of religious psychos on both sides, who have gotten more power, power to send more people to their deaths.
If the threat of terror-attacks disappeared, I reckon it'd be much harder for people on the israeli right-wing to make themselves heard, or break the rules.
4play
08-08-2007, 04:45 PM
u want land, only then u'll stop killing
its not peace u want
who wants everything and don't want to give anything?
its u
do you really blame them for wanting land?
what i would like to see is Palestine get back a fair portion of land. Im not talking about any un lines that where drawn up 50 years ago since today they will be useless. can you imagine what people have built in that time that would be immovable like roads, shopping centres and towns.
get the un/us/eu to provide aid to Palestinians i mean food, water, education , housing and security to their boarders(peacekeepers). As jetje said a man with plenty of food a proper education a decent job and a safe place for his family is definetly unlikely to want war with his neighbours over something trivial like religion.
unfortunately neither side is willing to give any ground as it would diminish their power
The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact.
bigboab
08-08-2007, 05:00 PM
The USA is the only country that can make Israel return to the original boundaries. Since 1949 the USA has 'bankrolled' Israel to the tune of 135 Billion Dollars. That is the equivalent of $24,000 dollars per Israeli. Why are they doing this?
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm#Taxpayer
torrentt
08-08-2007, 05:05 PM
I don't actually think he's killed anyone, though.
We don't even know if he's been in palestine, seems like he's egyptian for all intents and purposes.
[quote]
but last month we freed about 250 prisoners who were in israel prison cos they failed to murder, or helped to execute a terror act, or are members in terror groups etc..
and we didn't ask anything in return
"failed" as in "whoops, the bomb I just set didn't go off" or failed meaning that they didn't actually do anything in the first place? :unsure:
we give u water and electricity and jobs, what do u give in return? - while we let your people inside israel to work here, u penetrate in people with bombs or guns, some even try to kill the soldiers who are supervising at the barrier
Not sure that's him, or his people, really, unless you count all arabs or something.
i'm talking with him as a representer of the palestinians in this thread. he is from agypt i guess.
failed" as in "whoops, the bomb I just set didn't go off" or failed meaning that they didn't actually do anything in the first place? :unsure:
i got the list of all those prisoners and the reason why they where put to prison.
i'll name some:
matar musa ahmed mahmud: murder attempt, shooting towards people, possetion of firearm.
handi alias abed altif mansur: intentionally tried to kill a person, planting an explosive
hanani nagdi abed elrahim yusuf: shooting towards people, producing bombs and weapons-ammo, possession of weapons illegaly
Not sure that's him, or his people, really, unless you count all arabs or something.
if the majority want peace, why did they chose hamas?
The USA is the only country that can make Israel return to the original boundaries. Since 1949 the USA has 'bankrolled' Israel to the tune of 135 Billion Dollars. That is the equivalent of $24,000 dollars per Israeli. Why are they doing this?
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm#Taxpayer
why?
2 simple facts...
1)US is ran by some powerful US jews
2)most of the US politicians are believer Christians, they believe jesus wont resurrect unless Jerusalem is prepared for him(jews approval, bible)
sorry guys i won't comment on all of you seperatly .
first, I'm Egyptian this means I'm from Egypt and I'm Arabian Muslim .and proud of it.
that's to clear things out.
now allow me to deliver some historical facts .i won't take you along way back I'll only take you to 1991.
it's very important to go back in time in order to put things right and know why we are in this situation to day and who to blame?!
1991 , two great people ; both from the radical wing in both Palestine and isreal ; both are fighters;and both from the first generation
i'm here referring to yasser arfat and yitzhak rabin both men ot tired of war saw that peace is possible so after lot of secret meetings they met in Oslo and made Oslo accords.
oslo accords was a new era it gives Palestinians their lands in ten years in which all the major issues will solve like Jerusalem and the return right for the refugees.
what happened next is arfat went to Gaza and the west bank ; palestinians looked at him as their savior he started the Palestinian administration and the wheel started to run .
one day in 1995 we all woke up to find rabin assassinated why because he made peace with the palestinians.
now everything changed , a new prime minster with new agenda.
they put a pressure after a pressure over arfat they want him to agree to leave some lands of the western bank to them , he told them if he did that his own people will consider him a traitor but did isrealis had any understanding .
no ,of course not so he becomes a terrorist a man of war.
arfat tried to work things out made compromises but isreal gave him something and the next day it took it back.
it became clear to palestinians that isreal is playing games 1998 came and no Palestinian state declared , the Americans told arfat postpone it to 2000.
in 2000, sharon went to the Aqsa mosque with 2000 military soldiers to make a visit.
he knew it will made Arabians furious ,he know it would give radicals a reason to fight but who cares.
and then everything collapses,.
in the middle of all of this isreal did what most of the world consider a war crime not against humanity but against common sense.
they assassinated ahmed yassin the god father of hamas, the man was almost 80 years old paralyzed on wheel chair lived in isreali prisons for 25 years.
but isreal consider him a threat it sent a fighter and sent a missile to his house killed 10 people along with ahmed yassin so now what can yasser arfat do.
i forgot to tell you isreal put arfat under siege in his office saying he is a threat too.
so isreal put fatah leader the man it made peace with under siege and assassinated the hamas god father.
and arfat died in his prison and abu mazen came.
all isreali officials refused to meet abu mazen .
so they don't want abu mazen but under the pressure of usa Europe and Egypt they made a truth for 3 months with the palestinians.
but before this truth ends isreal attacked Gaza why no one knew for sure.
and the truth died so they start over and make other truth and the same happened .
hamas sent a missile ...isreal attacked a village and so on
and the election time came and the palestinians looked around
what they gonna choose
fatah ,its leader died in his office surrounded by isreali tanks by the people who offered them peace .
and what fatah did ..nothing after 15 years of the negotiations with isreal completely nothing.
no state no peace no thing.
hamas, a stubborn resistance which isreal couldn't stop.
so palestinians said if isreal didn't make peace so what it really wants is to kill us all and it had its chance already and fatah didn't strong enough to negotiate with isreal maybe hamas will do better.
so they choose hamas
now,who to blame
the Palestinians who stayed dreaming for peace for 15 years and never came.
I'll leave the answer to you.
now, let's clear something out the majority of Muslims want to live in peace and they know that isreal can't be gone so accept the reality but they are mad from what isreal does every day they are mad cause isreal doesn't give the land back.
and let me clear something else Arabian countries don't govern by religious leaders they are govern by elected presidents and some kings .
the only two religious states in middle east is isreal and iran
now isrealis see all the Arabians are terrorists or most of them
they refuse to obey international law they refuse to listen to any voice who talk about peace .
and they don't want to talk to Arabs at all
the problem is in the isreali minds... they are the ones who should sit down and determine what they want.
because we Arabians know what we want
we want our lands back all our lands the lands that isreal occupied in 1967.
and this legal under anything you name it
and the Palestinian resistance will continue in every way and form till this happen.
and this resistance two is legal.
if isreal want peace there will be peace.
Egypt made peace with radical isreali prime minister Menachem Begin .
so it isn't just the liberals who made peace also the radicals
sorry it's a long comment :)
Oh, ffs.
"the problem is in the isreali minds" and "we Arabians know what we want" etc.
Back to making blanket statements.
And tbh, Arafat wasn't that cool. He didn't become "a terrorist a man of war" in 1995, he'd been planning attacks against Israel for a long time before Fatah went legit.
There's no doubt that Sharon's douchebags didn't have peace in mind, though.
Nevertheless, you need to realise that things aren't that simple. All of Israel isn't bad, most are just regular people, and all arabs aren't nice enlightened blokes wanting peace.
well,yes not all isreali are bad and not all the arabs are peace seekers
and isreal made peace with arfat and then betrayed him
yes he planned attacks on isreal but that's in the 70s and this man had the Nobel prize for peace so he isn't that bad too.
and there is no blanket statement snee
I'm telling historical facts .
isreal can give the occupied land back if it wants and for that we all will live in peace.
peace can be done if isreal has the will to make it happen.
torrentt
08-09-2007, 12:06 PM
well,yes not all isreali are bad and not all the arabs are peace seekers
and isreal made peace with arfat and then betrayed him
yes he planned attacks on isreal but that's in the 70s and this man had the Nobel prize for peace so he isn't that bad too.
and there is no blanket statement snee
I'm telling historical facts .
isreal can give the occupied land back if it wants and for that we all will live in peace.
peace can be done if isreal has the will to make it happen.
camp david, 2000
Ehud Barak offered Arafat an eventual 91% (after many years - see section on territory) of the West Bank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank), and all of the Gaza Strip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip), with Palestinian control over Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state; in addition, all refugees could apply for compensation of property from an international fund to which Israel would contribute along with other countries. But before any gradual Israeli withdrawal, all Palestinian terrorist infrastructure must be dismantled. Arafat, however, refused. The Palestinians wanted the immediate withdrawal of the Israelis from the occupied territories, and only subsequently the Palestinian authority would crush all Palestinian terror organizations.
u got to love arafat
zapjb
08-09-2007, 12:57 PM
.....
The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact.
Correct. Do not let the rich & powerful, no matter what flavor fool you. Feed, clothe & teach the poor. That's the war that needs winning.
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