Should BT sites block entire Regions?

[SliDer5]

Like TB, WB of Middle East etc.
What do you think?

[Something Else]

yes, it's always funny to see the threads...
nah, not rly it's lame behaviour...

[Polarbear]

yes

[SliDer5]

yes

explain why plz

[spark]

Yes! like the country of cheaters....

[SliDer5]

Yes! like the country of cheaters....

whole countries of cheaters?
kinda wrong...:blink:

[tooxan]

Yes! like the country of cheaters....

LOL wat u talkig about it's just like saying we should't pass americam to europe becouse they living in coutry of killerss

IT'S SICK

[Polarbear]

yes, because i've seen statistics.

there are countries with a cheater/leecher rate of over 85% on a tracker.

there are several reasons for this, but it's a fact.

[SliDer5]

Yes! like the country of cheaters....

LOL wat u talkig about it's just like saying we should't pass americam to europe becouse they living in coutry of killerss

IT'S SICK

agreed :D

[lingo]

@SliDer5: You really got bored today, didn't you? :D

[Daniel]

If the trackers can't help themselves through other means of identifying cheaters, then banning country-wide IP-ranges is certainly the safest option for the tracker and all the remaining members. Some tracker staff should always consider the needs of many above the needs of a few, that's unfortunately not very fair or popular for a certain group of people.

[SliDer5]

yes, because i've seen statistics.

there are countries with a cheater/leecher rate of over 85% on a tracker.

there are several reasons for this, but it's a fact.

statistics might be wrong, think of yourself - how would you feel if your entire country was banned?

[spark]

@SliDer5: You really got bored today, didn't you? :D

He want his privs back :lol:

[SliDer5]

If the trackers can't help themselves through other means of identifying cheaters, then banning country-wide IP-ranges is certainly the safest option for the tracker and all the remaining members. Some tracker staff should always consider the needs of many above the needs of a few, that's unfortunately not very fair or popular for a certain group of people.

absolutely agreed :D



@SliDer5: You really got bored today, didn't you? :D

He want his privs back :lol:

even if I would I can't get them back ;)


@SliDer5: You really got bored today, didn't you? :D

FST = Filesharing Talk :cool:

[spark]

yes, because i've seen statistics.

there are countries with a cheater/leecher rate of over 85% on a tracker.

there are several reasons for this, but it's a fact.

statistics might be wrong, think of yourself - how would you feel if your entire country was banned?

If 70% of my country are cheaters/f***kers then I am 2 and I deserve it :)

[SliDer5]

statistics might be wrong, think of yourself - how would you feel if your entire country was banned?

If 70% of my country are cheaters/f***kers then I am 2 and I deserve it :)

it is wrong, there are smart system to prevent cheating, not a massive punishment! :huh:

[Polarbear]

pretend you are tracker staff.

-you get 100 users from country xyz every month
-85% cheat or leech their ass off

now you have to ban 85 single users. it's a timewasting process.

ban the whole country and you save time and work. for the benefit of the good users.

of course it's hard for the 25 good users of this country, but what are you gonna do?

[pECi]

yeah i agree with polarbear...but sometimes banning an entire country doesn't work...u have to disable their accounts too coz their can enter from a box or a proxy

[spark]

If 70% of my country are cheaters/f***kers then I am 2 and I deserve it :)

it is wrong, there are smart system to prevent cheating, not a massive punishment! :huh:

There is a site with a smart system! and 90% of you keep complaining about it everyday! The Great OiNK!

[SliDer5]

pretend you are tracker staff.

-you get 100 users from country xyz every month
-85% cheat or leech their ass off

now you have to ban 85 single users. it's a timewasting process.

ban the whole country and you save time and work. for the benefit of the good users.

of course it's hard for the 25 good users of this country, but what are you gonna do?

still wrong, now days you don't need to 85 users all is automatic.

[Daniel]

Well, spark, banning a whole country is the easiest and fastest option. If you do it manually, you'll never see the end of it with too many cheaters following the already disabled ones. If you do it the oink way, you will encounter a certain amount of people who were disabled by no mistake of their own. I'm convinced that a 'smart system' like theirs works, but it's does make some mistakes - some trackers can afford that and oink is certainly large enough ;)

[Polarbear]

pretend you are tracker staff.

-you get 100 users from country xyz every month
-85% cheat or leech their ass off

now you have to ban 85 single users. it's a timewasting process.

ban the whole country and you save time and work. for the benefit of the good users.

of course it's hard for the 25 good users of this country, but what are you gonna do?

still wrong, now days you don't need to 85 users all is automatic.

the first and most important rule of a cheater is: never ever admit that you cheated.

most of those 85 users will complain, whine and say they didn't do nothing after they've been banned.

that involves a lot of work and good nerves.

trackers don't ban countries for no reason. why would they?

[lingo]

@SliDer5: You really got bored today, didn't you? :D

FST = Filesharing Talk :cool:

No offense... I think you are acting a bit hyperactive today, but you have come up with such interesting topics. Good job... :lol:

[Dylster]

absolutely not, it's ridiculous to label a whole country as cheaters and these trackers are the closest thing we have to self-governing communities in the world no geographical region should be excluded we should be priding ourselves on the fact that we are part of something that does not care about borders

[spark]

Well, spark, banning a whole country is the easiest and fastest option. If you do it manually, you'll never see the end of it with too many cheaters following the already disabled ones. If you do it the oink way, you will encounter a certain amount of people who were disabled by no mistake of their own. I'm convinced that a 'smart system' like theirs works, but it's does make some mistakes - some trackers can afford that and oink is certainly large enough ;)

I can live with OiNK mistakes :) OiNK has the best rules I've ever seen, best script I've ever heard about...and they'll never ban a whole country, simply the do not need to...

[SliDer5]

Well, spark, banning a whole country is the easiest and fastest option. If you do it manually, you'll never see the end of it with too many cheaters following the already disabled ones. If you do it the oink way, you will encounter a certain amount of people who were disabled by no mistake of their own. I'm convinced that a 'smart system' like theirs works, but it's does make some mistakes - some trackers can afford that and oink is certainly large enough ;)

I can live with OiNK mistakes :) OiNK has the best rules I've ever seen, best script I've ever heard about...and they'll never ban a whole country, simply the do not need to...

smart system is the solution, not a massive punishment

[Daniel]

I can live with OiNK mistakes :)
That's what most people will say until their own account was disabled for reasons unknown ;) But like you said, oink has probably the best scripted way to recognize cheaters and that's a good thing.

[SkullForce]

still wrong, now days you don't need to 85 users all is automatic.

the first and most important rule of a cheater is: never ever admit that you cheated.

most of those 85 users will complain, whine and say they didn't do nothing after they've been banned.

that involves a lot of work and good nerves.

trackers don't ban countries for no reason. why would they?
may be for the sake of racism.

[SliDer5]

absolutely not, it's ridiculous to label a whole country as cheaters and these trackers are the closest thing we have to self-governing communities in the world no geographical region should be excluded we should be priding ourselves on the fact that we are part of something that does not care about borders

we wish for it, but there are always some part of people that should put a borders





the first and most important rule of a cheater is: never ever admit that you cheated.

most of those 85 users will complain, whine and say they didn't do nothing after they've been banned.

that involves a lot of work and good nerves.

trackers don't ban countries for no reason. why would they?
may be for the sake of racism.
don't go there ;)

[Polarbear]

absolutely not, it's ridiculous to label a whole country as cheaters and these trackers are the closest thing we have to self-governing communities in the world no geographical region should be excluded we should be priding ourselves on the fact that we are part of something that does not care about borders

i agree with you.

but unfortunately bittorrent sites are not part of the unesco

[SliDer5]

banning it not about cheaters today, mostly of Ddos attacks, and there are a perfect solutions for that.

[Polarbear]

is your country banned, slider5 ?

[lingo]

Banning a whole country may be a solution for the tracker, but it is not justical at all. ISP ban is all wrong while IP ban is okay for me and OiNK is doing a great job even if I don't like the staff there. A friend in my dormitory was banned b/c he was using the banned IP which I was using the last year. :/

PS: I missed why you have "DISABLED PRIVS" SliDer5. You mind sending me a PM about it if you don't wanna go off-topic here? :P

[spark]

is your country banned, slider5 ?

:lol:

[SliDer5]

is your country banned, slider5 ?

my country does not exist anymore

[pone44]

Hell No! Totally Unfair!

[Polarbear]

is your country banned, slider5 ?

my country does not exist anymore

well, that's great. would be hard to ban a country that doesn't exist, wouldn't it?

[SliDer5]

Banning a whole country may be a solution for the tracker, but it is not justical at all. ISP ban is all wrong while IP ban is okay for me and OiNK is doing a great job even if I don't like the staff there. A friend in my dormitory was banned b/c he was using the banned IP which I was using the last year. :/

PS: I missed why you have "DISABLED PRIVS" SliDer5. You mind sending me a PM about it if you don't wanna go off-topic here? :P

messed with my sig and forgot the rules, now paying for it.





my country does not exist anymore

well, that's great. would be hard to ban a country that doesn't exist, wouldn't it?

Germany exists very well

[TheFoX]

There's no reason to ban a country if your invite only, since each member will stay or go based on the merit of how they ran their account.

The big trackers would probably need to ban an entire range simply because the idiots keep signing up under new names all the time.

[rvt]

banning it not about cheaters today, mostly of Ddos attacks, and there are a perfect solutions for that.

Yes, it's called null routing.
20,000 IPs from one country give you crap, null route the country. DDOS over, site back up.

Of course you can always drop only the troublesome IPs, but it's going to cost you a fortune. Why should the tracker owners pay for that, especially if they don't get enough donations to pay for it?

[fOrUmAs]

Like TB, WB of Middle East etc.
What do you think?

I think that this is wrong,if some cheaters from some country cheat that ban that ip,but not the whole country...there is other ways to deal with them.;)

[blackbird]

nop ..!

i think staff who ban the whole country are too lazy to filter individual ip's :|

[Polarbear]

banning it not about cheaters today, mostly of Ddos attacks, and there are a perfect solutions for that.

Yes, it's called null routing.
20,000 IPs from one country give you crap, null route the country. DDOS over, site back up.

Of course you can always drop only the troublesome IPs, but it's going to cost you a fortune. Why should the tracker owners pay for that, especially if they don't get enough donations to pay for it?

can you blackhole filter a whole country?

edit: ok, there may be databases that tell you which ips belong to the country

[rvt]

Yep, it's possible.

BMTV had to blackhole Brazil recently due to a massive DDOS.
Using geoip lite, the number of IP ranges for brazil is somewhere around 400. A decent DDOS will use a minimum of a few thousand IPs.
The country ban is a hell of a lot easier to implement in a crisis than a ban of only the relevant IPs.

[Polarbear]

those poor beautiful brazilian girls :cry:

[briand5379]

You can ban a country all you want but if someone really wants to get into your site they'll find a way.

[rvt]

They may find a way to access the site, but DDOS is reduced to nothing when running through proxies :P

[kirktrix]

Like TB, WB of Middle East etc.
What do you think?

Unfair....;)

[pro267]

I'm against any sort of collective punishment.

If we're talking about cheaters - banning of individual accounts can be done automatically, and doesn't require staff intervention (banning the whining idiots from IRC is easy as well).
If we're talking about DDOS attacks - a temporary routing solution can be implemented. DDOS attacks usually won't last for more than a few hours/days at most.

[SliDer5]

I'm against any sort of collective punishment.

If we're talking about cheaters - banning of individual accounts can be done automatically, and doesn't require staff intervention (banning the whining idiots from IRC is easy as well).
If we're talking about DDOS attacks - a temporary routing solution can be implemented. DDOS attacks usually won't last for more than a few hours/days at most.

there are better solution for DDos, check out Oink for instance:happy:

[pro267]

there are better solution for DDos, check out Oink for instance:happy:
I have no idea which solution Oink is implementing, but you need to remember that it's a lot harder to DDOS a site like Oink than it is to DDOS most other sites. It requires a lot more sources and synchronization. Oink was built to handle huge amounts of traffic, which makes it immune to most smaller scaled DOS attacks.

Hell, I bet most trackers would consider Oink's normal traffic as a massive DDOS attack..

[SliDer5]

there are better solution for DDos, check out Oink for instance:happy:
I have no idea which solution Oink is implementing, but you need to remember that it's a lot harder to DDOS a site like Oink than it is to DDOS most other sites. It requires a lot more sources and synchronization. Oink was built to handle huge amounts of traffic, which makes it immune to most smaller scaled DOS attacks.

Hell, I bet most trackers would consider Oink's normal traffic as a massive DDOS attack..

still according to the nature of DDOS there is a simple solution, most of respected sites already implementing it;)

[Remi]

I would say that is the most stupid solution evah, banning hole regions/country's...that´s dumb...:(

[rvt]

still according to the nature of DDOS there is a simple solution, most of respected sites already implementing it;)

DDOS comes in many flavours, and there is no simple solution.
If multiple IPs are all repeatedly hitting your web server, you can drop in blocking at the firewall or server level (hosts.deny/iptables/htaccess). You could add the IPs to the bans table in the database, but allowing a DDOS to trigger a database lookup with every hit is a very bad idea.
If they are attacking a different service, then the options are different.

The common denominator is that they can all be handled by an external firewall. At that point, you either have enough tech support to add the IPs one by one, or you don't in which case you suffer through it or drop in some range bans.

Oink does have a lot of traffic, but they also have a large operating budget. Maybe they can afford to have targetted firewalling.

[Skengeboy]

Of course it's okay. To have access to a BT site is a privilegie, not something you must have to survive. And yes, they have all the rights to ban whoever they want, and countries with their IP ranges banned probably often deserves it, many cheaters, leechers and the rest of them have slow connections overall. It ain't very kind to the users that work hard to keep good ratios and seed as much as they can to let someone come and have it all for free.

[Cheffy]

Well banning am entire country might not be politically correct.
But how the freck cares?

The ammount of cheaters that some countries produce is absurd.
It only brings tonns of extra work to staff, and frankly they have better things to spend their time on.

And its only a tracker, there are like a couple of hundreds of them out there, so if one have banned your country, just find one that allow your country.

I have been Support at one of biggest trackers out there, and people are so freeking stupid that they refuse to accept that they have been caught cheating.
And they are willing to argue with your for hours and hours on end, and since you are staff, you have to act mature and take their feelings and stuff into consideration.
So you cant tell them to freck off and put them on your ignore list.
Even though they managed to download 1 episode of PB and upload 5 TB of data on that one in just 20min.

[Effer]

I think there are pros and cons for both sides. Banning an IP range makes sure your trackers stay healthy, but high-levelers are too appreciated even by cheaters and leechers for the practice to have any purpose accept punishing good members and potential members whose only fault is the wrong country.

On the other hand, my opinion is that low-levelers should practice region blocking more than they do, at least temporary blocking until some mentalities learn the hard way. If they don't, well, there's nothing else you can do but make sure never get a chance to learn again.

[Submission]

Countries like Israel need to be banned. Their internet just sucks, the upload is something like 15kb/s, imagine the speed going to north america or even europe.

They're all cheaters anyhow and useless to the bt community.

[wildbytes]

hmm


Last time i checked we have not banned the middle east. We have talked about it many times and most want to but i have not set any ranges as of yet.

We also have vips from the middle east, so why would i ban them.


We have a invite system were people from the middle east get in all the time. We also have a user app where people can signup and if a staff member thinks they would be a good fir they get a invite code (same thing as TDC). Most people that dont get in from userapp is mostly because we think they are lieing and or using a proxy.


Only thing we have done is set ranges on know cheaters that we have caught and or traders, but this banns do get lefted in time as ips change alot.


So once again people posting crap they have no clue about.




Wild

[RaPPeR]

As one that comes from such country [ that his all range got banned by some trackers ]
It sucks.
All those of you that in favor of banning all range of country's ip, I want to see you living in one of those countries . When you haven't do nothing wrong.
Its easy when you there .
From the other hand ,I can't say I blame them for doing it.

[SliDer5]

hmm


Last time i checked we have not banned the middle east. We have talked about it many times and most want to but i have not set any ranges as of yet.

We also have vips from the middle east, so why would i ban them.


We have a invite system were people from the middle east get in all the time. We also have a user app where people can signup and if a staff member thinks they would be a good fir they get a invite code (same thing as TDC). Most people that dont get in from userapp is mostly because we think they are lieing and or using a proxy.


Only thing we have done is set ranges on know cheaters that we have caught and or traders, but this banns do get lefted in time as ips change alot.


So once again people posting crap they have no clue about.




Wild

not correct, over WB IRC I spoke to the op and I was told that currently all Middle East is banned, so who to believe to?

[wildbytes]

hmm


Last time i checked we have not banned the middle east. We have talked about it many times and most want to but i have not set any ranges as of yet.

We also have vips from the middle east, so why would i ban them.


We have a invite system were people from the middle east get in all the time. We also have a user app where people can signup and if a staff member thinks they would be a good fir they get a invite code (same thing as TDC). Most people that dont get in from userapp is mostly because we think they are lieing and or using a proxy.


Only thing we have done is set ranges on know cheaters that we have caught and or traders, but this banns do get lefted in time as ips change alot.


So once again people posting crap they have no clue about.




Wild

not correct, over WB IRC I spoke to the op and I was told that currently all Middle East is banned, so who to believe to?


HAHA


I make all the calls so i can tell you thats not true. I am sure it was a mod that was pissed off at the middle east or just banned a few from the middle east and thought you might be one of them.


We do ban more people in the middle east then anywhere else in the world.




Wild

[pECi]

We do ban more people in the middle east then anywhere else in the world.





+ 1

[isabel.pirate]

My country (Canada) just got banned from demenoid ;) but it doesn't really matter there is so much overlap in trackers - just find one that is open to you. Life goes on BT is just a fun hobby or game (depending how you treat it) life does go on.

[SliDer5]

not correct, over WB IRC I spoke to the op and I was told that currently all Middle East is banned, so who to believe to?


HAHA


I make all the calls so i can tell you thats not true. I am sure it was a mod that was pissed off at the middle east or just banned a few from the middle east and thought you might be one of them.


We do ban more people in the middle east then anywhere else in the world.




Wild

rude;)
sometimes you behind sometimes you ahead, the journey is long, anything can change, it is a matter of time, now you are smiling but one day you may cry (metaphor)

[Effer]

Is it true Romania got banned from SCC?

[Polarbear]

Is it true Romania got banned from SCC?

i've read posts that say so.

[Effer]

Is it true Romania got banned from SCC?

i've read posts that say so.

Yeah, I just read some posts that confirm this on other forums as well.

[pECi]

yeah...some time ago :shifty: but not all...some ip classes still work very fine

[silversk8r]

I think that's a bad thing, punishing everyone, even those wh are innocents. but I can understand why they do it.

[GhostRetired19]

Unfair

[thelevy23]

Countries like Israel need to be banned. Their internet just sucks, the upload is something like 15kb/s, imagine the speed going to north america or even europe.

They're all cheaters anyhow and useless to the bt community.
why does israel need to be banned?
not all of us are cheaters and by the way the upload speed is 38 kb/s(still sucks i know) but we don't have a choice so because our suppliers give us bad upload speed we should pay the price?
i for instance keep my utorrent on almost all day
and you want to ban me?

[SliDer5]

Countries like Israel need to be banned. Their internet just sucks, the upload is something like 15kb/s, imagine the speed going to north america or even europe.

They're all cheaters anyhow and useless to the bt community.

day will come you will find yourself in Israel - the land of God.

[Dr. Lecter]

Countries like Israel need to be banned. Their internet just sucks, the upload is something like 15kb/s, imagine the speed going to north america or even europe.

I live in Israel & I have an 5/512 connection which means that my upload rate is around 64KB/s.
U can look for the nick DrLecter in most known trackers & see my ratio there, I never used a seedbox & I have gr8 ratio so stfu !


I am useless to the bt community.
You are absolutely right.

[sear]

One thing that no one has mentioned is that if they do ban your country range most trackers will still allow you in. You just have to go to IRC state your case and if they believe you they'll unban your particular IP. It's a hassle if you have a dynamic ip addy because you'd have to go to IRC all the time but if you really want on the tracker I guess it would be worth it.

By banning entire ranges trackers are just protecting the site and its members. It's really for the best. If you find you're within one of those ranges that's too bad but most tracker staff are reasonable people and if you explain yourself in a polite and clear manner I'm sure they'll listen. RVT can correct me if i'm wrong but I'm sure BitMeTv does this for some of it's members that are in banned ranges.

[rvt]

Yep, bmtv has poked some holes in the ranges before.
Most staffers would rather put in a little work on the ranges than lose a good member.

[Gish]

One thing that no one has mentioned is that if they do ban your country range most trackers will still allow you in. You just have to go to IRC state your case and if they believe you they'll unban your particular IP. It's a hassle if you have a dynamic ip addy because you'd have to go to IRC all the time but if you really want on the tracker I guess it would be worth it.

By banning entire ranges trackers are just protecting the site and its members. It's really for the best. If you find you're within one of those ranges that's too bad but most tracker staff are reasonable people and if you explain yourself in a polite and clear manner I'm sure they'll listen. RVT can correct me if i'm wrong but I'm sure BitMeTv does this for some of it's members that are in banned ranges.

good point!
if you happen to be in one of those ranges you my may still get your account back by stating your case.
also, what is it about Israel anyway:ph34r: