The RIAA Attacks Usenet

[fstrulz]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9439/5908pcrwrgrabitxz3.pngBasking in glory after orchestrating a record punishment for a petty file-sharer in the US, the RIAA takes its legal campaign to the next level. Many may want newsgroups to stay under the radar but it's too late - major labels have filed a copyright infringement lawsuit against Usenet.com and it won't be going away.

In an ideal world, people would not talk about Usenet. In an ideal world there would be no such things as copyright infringement lawsuits. Sadly, we do not live in an ideal world.

Today we simply have to talk about Usenet and we have to talk about lawsuits.

Major record labels - Arista, Atlantic, BMG, Capitol, Caroline, Elektra, Interscope, LaFace, Maverick, Sony BMG, UMG, Virgin, Warner Bros. and Zomba have filed a copyright infringement lawsuit against Usenet.com.

According to Billboard, the complaint filed in the District Court in New York states that Usenet.com provides access to millions of copyright infringing files and, with a nod towards the Grokster Decision, apparently “touts its service as a haven for those seeking pirated content.”


:source: Source: TorrentFreak (http://torrentfreak.com/the-riaa-attacks-usenet-071016/)

[garherd]

The newsgroups have always been the one save haven for downloading files. Now it appears that is seriously in jeapordy.

[Tokeman]

I think they will be fine. Their service is a far cry from p2p services that have been successfully sued. Plus, they have a LOT of money for defense. Also, the files are kept in binary, so arguably there are no files there, only a bunch of numbers.

Good luck with the lawsuit guys, you'll need it. At least you have a target to keep you busy while I enjoy torrenting and IRC.

[link2009]

Money money money, that's what BitTorrent trackers don't have. I want to see the RIAA or MPAA take down GigaNews...they could probably buy out every member of the association and still have money to run their services.

[lynx]

The argument that the files are kept in binary won't hold water, all files are binary on one form or another. Original copyrights didn't include phrases like "or other means electronic or mechanical" because those phrases would not have had any meaning. Try to argue that those old copyrights aren't enforceable and see where it gets you.

On the other hand, it may be difficult to pin any blame on Usenet since it doesn't actually keep records of what's on it's servers. What's more likely is that the RIAA/MPAA will try to make Usenet keep records of who uploaded what file (if they don't already, and I suspect they do to protect themselves from defamation lawsuits) and to release that information when required.

The result could be relatively easy identification of uploaders, making newsgroups a distinctly unsafe place for distribution.

[TheFoX]

Also, the files are kept in binary, so arguably there are no files there, only a bunch of numbers.


That is all any file is... The machine does not know the difference between any given file. They are all stored in binary. It is the application that determines whether it is a PDF or a bitmap or a wmp.

Files hosted by a newgroup server is no different from files hosted on a seedbox or on a topsite. The main difference is that topsite or seedboxes are usually loaded by the box owner, whereas newgroups allow their members to upload the files.

[mbucari1]

Money money money, that's what BitTorrent trackers don't have. I want to see the RIAA or MPAA take down GigaNews...they could probably buy out every member of the association and still have money to run their services.was thinking the same thing, but their headquarters are in Texas so they're still under US law.

I'm gonna sign up with them very soon, so here's hoping! :pinch:

[dasheeki]

yawn.

gl to those bitches trying to take on a beast like usenet. ill continue to enjoy usenet and you all should too :D

[Broken]

Usenet is not P2P. Usenet is the original internet and works very much like the internet everyone is familiar with.
This (suing usenet.com) is like the RIAA/MPAA trying to sue AOL because someone could use Yahoo to find copyrighted content on the "familiar internet".
The beloved DMCA provides safe harbor from these types of law suits against ISPs. LOL.
They don't have a leg to stand on.

They're getting desperate... grasping at straws.
They can't do shit about Usenet.

[mbucari1]

Usenet is not P2P. Usenet is the original internet and works very much like the internet everyone is familiar with.
This (suing usenet.com) is like the RIAA/MPAA trying to sue AOL because someone could use Yahoo to find copyrighted content on the "familiar internet".
The beloved DMCA provides safe harbor from these types of law suits against ISPs. LOL.
They don't have a leg to stand on.

They're getting desperate... grasping at straws.
They can't do shit about Usenet.but what about the servers where said content is hosted. I agree that going after a provider will be fruitless, but the servers that host this shit have can be liable.

[Broken]

The way Usenet works is that everything is mirrored from one provider to another.
For example, if I post a file on Giganews that file will then be mirrored by every other provider... Usenetserver, PowerUsenet, Newsdemon, right,down to the Usenet servers hosted by people's ISPs. It's not a very efficient protocol.

It's not that one file "A" is hosted on server "A". It's that every file on Usenet is hosted on every collection of servers (Ideally, there are completion issues and failures of some providers to host some groups).

Under Title II of the DMCA (17 U.S.C. § 511 and following), an ISP can avoid financial liability by following the "notice and takedown" provisions, should one of its subscribers offer infringing copy online. These provisions basically state that once an ISP receives notice of the infringement, it must take down the unauthorized material. Which Usenet providers do. These people are running a business and follow the law.

The only other conditions to be meet...
The ISP not obtain financial benefit from the infringement , not have actual knowledge or awareness of facts indicating infringing transmissions, upon learning of an infringing transmission act quickly to remove or disable access to the infringing transmission, andmplement a policy of terminating the accounts of subscribers who are repeat infringers.

[mbucari1]

interesting Broken.

So do you not believe it's probable that this suit will hurt usenet? I know that the providers have many more resources available to them than file sharers, but I'm still concerned that the RIAA may come out of the suit with at least a partial victory.

If it became law that Usenet providers must log uploads and that they must hand over those reports upon subpoena, then usenet might begin to wither away :(

[Broken]

In the original post on torrentfreak...

"Therefore it’s no surprise that the lawsuit seems to hang on statements allegedly made by Usenet.com to their customers, claiming that they told them their service is “the best way to get ‘free’ music now that ‘file sharing websites are getting shut down.”

This would seemingly violate the terms of the DMCA in that


The only other conditions to be meet...
The ISP not obtain financial benefit from the infringement , not have actual knowledge or awareness of facts indicating infringing transmissions....

I do not believe that it'll hurt Usenet on a whole.
But it will remind the carriers that they can't make stupid statements encouraging or condoning illegal pirate activity. I believe that the statement on their website is so vague that this whole thing will come to nothing. They don't really say, "get your illegal downloads here!", but they come close.


This isn't about the legality of Usenet.
But the encouragement of illegal activity by a provider.

[Smeghead^]

just a short question here - lets say usenet.com is taken down - that means only their servers conencted to the usenet network will dissapear meaning less mirrors ?

if thats the case - how big is the usenet.com network ? will it affect users using giganews.com or the connection between them has no importance to ppl using a different usenet provider ?

another article here: http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2007/10/riaa_usenet

cheers

[killuminati96]

It was just a matter of time. oh well At least now the elitists can shut up. I barely even get music thru P2P anymore anyway. I go on fan sites and we share our album rips personally thru file hosting sites. :ph34r: I still need P2P for that rare song here and there tho.

[Broken]

just a short question here - lets say usenet.com is taken down - that means only their servers conencted to the usenet network will dissapear meaning less mirrors ?

if thats the case - how big is the usenet.com network ? will it affect users using giganews.com or the connection between them has no importance to ppl using a different usenet provider ?

another article here: http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2007/10/riaa_usenet

cheers

If Usenet.com (don't let the name fool you they are nobodies with a good domain name) suddenly disappeared it would have the same effect on Usenet as the disappearance of a carrier like NetZero would have on the internet... none.

I think some people are confused.
Usenet is not the most efferent protocol, it is very old. Each carrier mirrors every other carrier, but no one carrier is dependent on the others. Each provider has their very own server farm with a complete mirror of Usenet. Each carrier takes care of their own machines, and how well they mirror the other providers. If you have a poor carrier their servers will have lots of errors do to poor mirror of other carriers.

[psxcite]

Exactly. If the RIAA wants to rattle it's saber, that's all they will do. Their case won't hold water. Are they going to sue AT&T and TimeWarner next? Cause guess what? They all have usenet servers.

They want to pick on one little company in hopes of setting a precedent in court. Thereby forcing every organization which hosts a usenet server to shut them down. It won't happen.

What's next? Sue the HDD companies for creating a medium for storing warez? Or levy a tax against blank CD and DVD producers because everyone knows thats all they are used for.

Gimme a break. The RIAA will get it's ass handed to them in court this time.

[TheFoX]

I think the number of mirrors is probably countless. As well as the dedicated news servers themselves, almost each ISP will also mirror usenet.

Here is a list of the top 1000 servers...

http://news.anthologeek.net/top1000.current.txt

and that is just the first 1000.

While the process may be an outdated mode, it still works relatively well.

The only reason why someone may pick a specific usenet service is for one main reason only, and that is data retention. The cheaper services often purge older data earlier, whereas paid for services will keep data for a longer duration. You would need to check your own usenet service for retention time.

Hitting Usenet.com is like trying to kill a swarm of mosquitoes with a swat. You may get one or two, but the rest then bite your arse till it is red raw. Lets hope the RIAA get their arse bitten, or at least lose several billion in failed lawsuit costs (even they must have budgetary requirements, otherwise the cost of lawsuits would seriously damage their profit margins).

[Beck38]

A bit of the next shuffle has occurred, read:

http://www.slyck.com/story1606_GigaNews_Usenet_Server_Dump_Anonymous_Reference

[djkemp1]

so could the riaa then go after individual downloaders?? or would it be the actual provider i.e. giganews or usenet.com?

[start]

so could the riaa then go after individual downloaders?? or would it be the actual provider i.e. giganews or usenet.com?

RIAA have no way of seeing what you download because the connection is between you and your Usenet provider. However, when you use torrents; you are connected to a peered network where your IP is visible to everyone. Secondly, Usenet providers are not interested in what you download. They only keep logs of how much bandwidth you use per your quota account. So RIAA cannot force a Usenet provider to cough up logs of you downloading a copyrighted movie.

[mbucari1]

so could the riaa then go after individual downloaders?? or would it be the actual provider i.e. giganews or usenet.com?yeah, they'd have to go after the provider. If successful with their pursuits of the provider, they could be given the right to demand logging of users activity and the submission of those logs upon subpoena.

[djkemp1]

ok i see, so if they could then demand download logs could they then prosecute people who download off of the network even if they aren't uploading??

[smoove_gg]

so could the riaa then go after individual downloaders?? or would it be the actual provider i.e. giganews or usenet.com?yeah, they'd have to go after the provider. If successful with their pursuits of the provider, they could be given the right to demand logging of users activity and the submission of those logs upon subpoena.

Yeah but at what suspicion?
How can they attack single users when the connection is only you and your newsgroup server? It would be like the police randomly kicking in your door because they suspect drugs in your 10 block radius. I doubt providers log specific file users download.

[mbucari1]

yeah, they'd have to go after the provider. If successful with their pursuits of the provider, they could be given the right to demand logging of users activity and the submission of those logs upon subpoena.

Yeah but at what suspicion?
How can they attack single users when the connection is only you and your newsgroup server? It would be like the police randomly kicking in your door because they suspect drugs in your 10 block radius. I doubt providers log specific file users download.
well, they can easily see that content is being uploaded every minute of the day (http://binsearch.info/). Seeing one of their copyrighted works being uploaded would give them cause to demand the uploader's identity.

I'd suspect that only the uploaders would be at risk, but without the uploaders of illegal content, there would be few downloaders period and newsgroup providers would suffer. Usenet providers can play dumb all they like, but they know from where their profits are coming.

[fabik05]

fuck riaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!