OK, Talk me out of BT(pros & cons)

[kostnkost]

My friend tried getting me into newsgroups about a year ago, and introduced me to Grabit. I fiddled around with it for a bit and was disinterested. I then found out how easy it was using torrents, and haven't looked back.

With some of the bigger names going down in the torrent scene though, I have been considering going back to newsgroups.

Before making the jump, I was wondering if anyone can name the pros and cons of using each.

[Broken]

Usenet:
100% worry free downloading at 100% of your connection speed with a 100% chance of finishing every download you make with a 0% chance of ever being shut down.

BT:
It's free.... ummm.
You get to kiss a lot of ass trying to get into the hottest trackers before they get shut down. LOL
Wait... that's not a pro.

Ummm... that's all I got for BT.

[kyuuchi]

Usenet: Most provider only record download amount , they don't record what content you download. No feds will ever show up because you used newsgroups.

BT: It'll never be as safe as usenet... I guess thats a con too :/

[Skiz]

Read my comments here - http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-file-sharing-8/t-what-giganews-exactly-246079/

[AmpeD]

BT- free, like filesharing should be.

[Skiz]

BT- free, like filesharing should be.

As if to say that newsgroups costs money?

Many people get free newsgroups access through their ISP.

[Broken]

Having to pay for Usenet (a good premium provider) isn't really a con in my eyes.
It keeps all the kiddies at bay, so things don't get too main stream.

That is unless they steal daddy's credit card. lol.

[ricky08]

usenet - cadillac of piracy

[Skiz]

I'm fine if most of you stick to bittorrent. It'll keep some of the pressure off use Usenet users.

[panaeolus]

i have a free isp newsgroup

but sucks

the think is if newsgroups are really better from B_T

if u can find same files ,then why choose newgroups?

[AmpeD]

I really dont know much about usenet. Aren't newsgroups usually only w/ cable providers? i have dsl
I do want to try them out though

[Broken]

usenet - cadillac of piracy

lol
I like that...
I like that a lot.

:thumbsup:


I really dont know much about usenet. Aren't newsgroups usually only w/ cable providers? i have dsl
I do want to try them out though

A good number of ISP's regardless of DSL or cable provide Usenet (newsgroups) for free.
I'd call and ask your ISP if they provide Usenet (newsgroups) access.

Even if they do, it's probably gonna be on the lower side of the spectrum.

Many pay Usenet providers have free trials, and this site has a good NZB index that is free also.

[panaeolus]

broken if i have a free acess to newsgroups from isp i can downloads the files here

thanks

i need to check the newsgroups think

i hope i found many more files than BT or else what?

[Skiz]

I really dont know much about usenet. Aren't newsgroups usually only w/ cable providers? i have dsl
I do want to try them out though

I can see your IP and ISP, and yes, you can utilize newsgroups via your ISP.

http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


broken if i have a free acess to newsgroups from isp i can downloads the files here

thanks

i need to check the newsgroups think

i hope i found many more files than BT or else what?

From the NZB section here? Yes.

[whiteacid]

I think the best thing about BT is the amount of files available to download. A lot of the time when I'm looking for something to download on newsgroups like maybe a lesser known band I can't find it and itll usually be available via BT. Although I guess this is becoming less of an issue with some things because data retention is increasing so much.

[Broken]

I think the best thing about BT is the amount of files available to download. A lot of the time when I'm looking for something to download on newsgroups like maybe a lesser known band I can't find it and itll usually be available via BT. Although I guess this is becoming less of an issue with some things because data retention is increasing so much.

I think a provider will soon be crossing the 1 year mark.
It's totally insain... and I love it!

[cubbyche]

Your right sometimes if cant find it on Usenet you can usually find it on BT i was looking for a band tonight did not find it on Usenet but found it on the Demonoid the only problem is there down and out right now hope they come back soon they were really good for hard to find stuff...

[BawA]

Ok here it goes...
if you're an moderate downloader then it will take you a few bucks to get around, you'll just need a Credit card or a paypal account to subscribe to one of the Servers, my recommendation is Usenet-news (http://www.usenet-news.net), they have Pay-per-Download system, you'll pay an advance money to buy your choice of block(download amount) or you can pay-per-month which is more beneficial if your a big downloader and you download like 100GB's per months.

In Block system you will use your blocks when you need them and it wont run out, no monthly charges, but it will be more costly if you download too much, in monthly system whether you use the server or not by end of the month you must renew your subscription so if you pay 40$ and you dont use it its a waste but that 40$ on block system can buy you almost 300Gb which will not go away.

As i said many times, Newsgroups are headache free, some of headaches which newsgroups removes:

No more seeding: means no more running your computer 24/7
No more double space occupancy: meaning you wont need the actual rar files after extracting them for further Seeding which will save a lot of HDD space.
Files are pred faster then BT
Speeds are Maxed out every time.
Privacy's are more reliable


Best news grabber or download program IMO is NewsLeecher (http://www.newsleecher.com/), easy to get around and dose lots of things for you.

The only negative points in NewsGroups i can see is:

There is no actual support for releases unlike trackers where members can comment on releases and notify you if something is wrong with the release, but that wont be a big deal if you get your updates from other sites or any private tracker.
You get corrupt archives, remember how files are corrupted on open indexers you get something similar BUT there is a way around. there are Part files(.par files), these .par files are there to reconstruct the corrupted archive, usually these files are listed among releases and here is where Newsleecher comes in handy, NL has a built in repair system, usually you must use another program to repair corrupt archive with par files but in NL it monitors the archive and downloads the par files if necessary and repairs it.


There are two ways to grab/download files you want:

1st option would be downloading headers using the grabber program to get a listing of available files, think of headers as release titles, when you go to a tracker you see a release name you click it and post opens where you then need to download the .torrent file, that .torrent file as you know has the release information, it tell the torrent downloader program what files to download from some1 using tracker, in Newsgroups its a bit harder to just click and download, you must 1st connect to the server which you paid for then group who uploads files to the server, these groups are titled for their specialty, some are famous for games and mostly titled alt.bin.games, we take as you want to download Crysis, you connect to that group and download their headers/release title, it will take some time and will download all titles on their group(you can choose to download the new files only) and then you will see the file names but not as a single . torrent file, it will show you what you usually see in .torrent files(**.01, 02, **.rar and so on) you must find out how many parts a release has and down them all and the rest is like torrenting.
OR you can ignore all Crap talk that i said about option one :sick: and goto header/bin indexers sites like this (http://www.binsearch.info) and search, just like any torrent indexers, the only thing is they are not so fast to index, it will take upto 24 hours to index a new file.
ORRRRRRRRRRRRr you can ignore both options and goto the beautiful FST's NZB section and get what you want which indexes all new/old files at speed of no1 else thanks to our great NZB posters :fst:

[madbeer]

I like utilizing my upload bandwidth to share torrents. Also you get the elitist feeling when you are on the hot trackers.

[BawA]

I like utilizing my upload bandwidth to share torrents. Also you get the elitist feeling when you are on the hot trackers.

Utilizing upload BW is good for those who have a fast connection for some one like me who's up speed is 25KBs it can be painful, it takes upto 24hrs for me to upload 1Gb and thats when am not downloading anything, this means my computer must be running all the time which makes me nervous, on most of the tracker i didnt upload more then 100GB which is a result of years of uploading until i bought an seed box to get some buffer on TL but now i prefer to pay that money on newsgroup then buying seedbox.

And i dont know how being part of a tracker makes you feel elite if you just go there to download. you will be elite in eyes of noobs who still use kazaa to download or buy their software needs. you will feel elite when you tell them that they suck and you rock by not paying your way to getting a game unlike them.

[Broken]

Also you get the elitist feeling when you are on the hot trackers.

Flame bait! lol

What's so elite about any tracker?
Proud of all the butt kissing you did to get there?

[delimare]

Also you get the elitist feeling when you are on the hot trackers.

Flame bait! lol

What's so elite about any tracker?
Proud of all the butt kissing you did to get there?

I too used to think that I was king shit with all these hot trackers under my belt. I woke up one day and realized that it doesn't do me a damn bit of good. Wasting electricity to keep the PC on 24/7, fear in lack of animosity and most importantly, it wasn't getting me any pussy. Not that Newsgroups get me any pussy, but at least I feel more safe using it. :)

The only thing I use torrents for these days are the very rare music files and unique items that just cannot be found on Newsgroups.

[stroj]

Nice post BawA, but this is not true



Files are pred faster then BTDepends on what trackers you are registred too,

[DyNast]

BT- free, like filesharing should be.
You are absolutely right ;)

[Windy72]

I hardly have paid for my usenet experience. As somebody said earlier get a block account if your a moderate user. I then use a couple of excellent free servers and use my block account to fill. In 10 months a 300 gig block account cost me 50 quid and so far I have used 35 gig of it. So it could last me 5-6 years lol. Now then 50 quid divided by 5 years (carn't find a calculator) = peanuts.

Spending 5 years on a BT tracker uploading 24/7 must cost you a bit more than peanuts in electricity. LMFAO at pro BT only dudes... Yes I use BT to and love it but it does not come close to usenet. :01:

[Broken]

Nice post BawA, but this is not true



Files are pred faster then BTDepends on what trackers you are registred too,


It all comes from the same release groups and dump sites. So it's not a matter of pre-times, the are almost identical.

The thing is,
how long would it take you to download something after you start under the best possible circumstances?
Now how long would it take you to seed that back 1:1?

I can grab a DVD format release in less than half an hour, and .aiv in under ten and not have to seed anything back, totally done with it.

Name a single tracker you can do that legitimately on.

[bluejay]

Why isn't it more popular then? (honest question)

[r77]

Why isn't it more popular then? (honest question)
my suppose is because the children dont have credit cards and use torrents and usenet is more complicated for the kids.

[bluejay]

oh, yeah, the credit card thing.. I can't really use them here in China. Forgot about that.

[Windy72]

Why isn't it more popular then? (honest question)

Although usenet has got easier some people are just too daft to understand it. I have tried spent hours online trying to get folks to use it. Either I am not a good teacher or they are pretty thick but so far my success rate has been zero. Ah well more server speed for me.:frusty:

[BawA]

Why isn't it more popular then? (honest question)


my suppose is because the children dont have credit cards and use torrents and usenet is more complicated for the kids.

Although usenet has got easier some people are just too daft to understand it. I have tried spent hours online trying to get folks to use it. Either I am not a good teacher or they are pretty thick but so far my success rate has been zero. Ah well more server speed for me.

i 2nd them
it took me also some time to start using NG, the complicity of NG always made me postponed, and there is very little simple guides on using it, most go into the way NG works and guide very little or lose you into the NG complicity.
but tbh its not so complicated, atleast for todays with indexers indexing releases a huge part of Newsgroup's complicity is excluded(listing groups, finding groups, subscribing groups, downloading headers, listing releases, insuring releases and few more).

[Windy72]

For a Gooner you speak an awful lot of sense:happy:

[BawA]

:D :naughty:
:01:Gunners4life :01:

[scubascythan]

My personal reason was that it required a credit card, which was hard to do when I was 14 lol. I had to use my ISP's newsgroups who's retention was crap (<0.5 days, with MANY corrupted). However once I got my credit card, first thing I did was sign up. I don't really think it's that complicated, but just overwhelming at first. Thing that really helped me overcome it was reading the guide to newsgroups on slyck.

[WHiKWiRE]

If you really want to feel elite you need to try downloading a 360 game or DVDR at 900 kB/s. :lol:

[BawA]

WW i never get your sig, what do you mean by "JESUS USED TORRENTS AND LOOKED WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM, USE NEWSGROUPS".
grammar wise it doesn't make sense
just curious nothing more :lol:

[Broken]

WW i never get your sig, what you mean "JESUS USED TORRENTS AND LOOKED WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM, USE NEWSGROUPS".
grammar wise it doesn't make sense
just curious nothing more :lol:



Grammar Nazi... (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=grammar+nazi&r=f)
:lol:

[iNVADER]

lol?

[Broken]

lol?

lol, newbies.

lol=laughing out loud

[psxcite]

Most major usenet providers use paypal now. And anyone can get a credit card at Walgreens or Walmart so thats not an issue. Hell, even Paypal issues a credit card for free now.

I enjoy the speed of usenet. And if something is a couple of months old and now I decide to get it, I don't have to worry if there are enough seeders so I dont wait days for the transfer to complete. I get max speed all the time on usenet- if the file is 6 months old or 5 minutes.

Another reason, is the vast amount of data available. Let's take Xbox 360 as an example. If you combine every tracker that carries 360 stuff right now, they still wouldn't have the same amount of games as usenet has available with a good premium server like Giganews.

[WHiKWiRE]

WW i never get your sig, what do you mean by "JESUS USED TORRENTS AND LOOKED WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM, USE NEWSGROUPS".
grammar wise it doesn't make sense
just curious nothing more :lol:

It's no secret that Jesus had a music addiction. He fueled this addiction by downloading via torrents. The Romans(RIAA) crucified him for this. :lol:

[iNVADER]

WW i never get your sig, what do you mean by "JESUS USED TORRENTS AND LOOKED WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM, USE NEWSGROUPS".
grammar wise it doesn't make sense
just curious nothing more :lol:

It's no secret that Jesus had a music addiction. He fueled this addiction by downloading via torrents. The Romans(RIAA) crucified him for this. :lol:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t319/usernamegoeshere_2007/crucifiction_fin.gif

[orfik]

Here's my problem: I'm sitting here with over a TB of "properly ripped and encoded" FLACs, and a horde of obscure movies, thanks almost entirely to BT. I have niche tastes, and I wonder if Usenet caters to a niche market. Honestly, I don't care at all about mainstream content.

[cubbyche]

I don't know what kind of music your into check this out -->
http://www.binsearch.info/browse.php?bg=alt.binaries.sounds.lossless
Thers a group for almost all music tastes ...
Personally I like documentary's I found a lot very good documentary's on usent...

[WHiKWiRE]

It's no secret that Jesus had a music addiction. He fueled this addiction by downloading via torrents. The Romans(RIAA) crucified him for this. :lol:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t319/usernamegoeshere_2007/crucifiction_fin.gif


:w00t: i love it. :D

[orfik]

I don't know what kind of music your into check this out -->
http://www.binsearch.info/browse.php?bg=alt.binaries.sounds.lossless
Thers a group for almost all music tastes ...
Personally I like documentary's I found a lot very good documentary's on usent...

I've downloaded a few FLAC albums off newsgroups and the logs were all wrong, if they had any at all (usually just nfo). Also, if y'all want to save some money, most of the stuff from Newsgroups goes right to DC++, just join the better hubs.

[Skiz]

I don't know what kind of music your into check this out -->
http://www.binsearch.info/browse.php?bg=alt.binaries.sounds.lossless
Thers a group for almost all music tastes ...
Personally I like documentary's I found a lot very good documentary's on usent...

I've downloaded a few FLAC albums off newsgroups and the logs were all wrong, if they had any at all (usually just nfo). Also, if y'all want to save some money, most of the stuff from Newsgroups goes right to DC++, just join the better hubs.

I indeed come across incorrect logs or rips with Usenet, but not nearly as much as I do with bittorrent trackers like oink and now waffles. E**** seems to be the diamond in the rough. Waffles is filled with the shit. Just since it's start, I've had to report over half the "FLAC" rips I've downloaded as bullshit, virtual drive, garbage.

I convert every rip I download to a single CDImage, verifying against AR in the process, so I know if what I have is truly lossless.

I join the FLACs into a single wav (via CUETools) and mount them with Daemon Tools, to determine the pregpa lengths. If they match up to what the EAC logs show, the rip is bullshit.

Sometimes newbies follow the EAC ripping guide exactly, without even understanding what they are doing. Just reverse the offset (-12) via CUETools (assuming the original rip was done with the right offset to start with), and remount in Daemon Tools, then retest with arcue.pl. If you get a 100% match, again, the rip is bullshit.

As for DC being commensurable to Usenet, that's laughable.

[orfik]

That's funny, because I've had great luck with waffles and what.cd when it comes to proper logs, but it may just be the type of music I listen to (it breeds anal retention). For the log itself, I'm only interested in proper pre-gap length, CRC verification, no c2, and no extraction errors.

Offset correction is useless to me. Read correction is to make sure it doesn't lose small fractions of seconds at the beginning of data set, which only really matters very far down the reproduction line, when those errors affect real data and not complete silence.

To verify whether or not the rip is lossless, I just convert the FLACs to WAVs and run them through Cool Edit Pro for WA/SA. You seem pretty knowledgeable, though, so tell me if I should really bother verifying them through Daemon Tools.

And I don't know. I'm only care about music and obscure film, and Newsgroups just didn't do anything for me. DC was on par in my experience. Maybe I'll try it again.

[aburyach]

Personally I use both...best of both worlds

[Windy72]

Personally I use both...best of both worlds

Yes you make sense. This should not be about mine is better than yours. After all we share right? So share information to.

I see little need myself to use DC hubs. But I am always open to suggestion. It just seems to me some people post to promote something that maybe works for them but maybe more to promote this option. I have tried DC and it is not for me. Other places both p2p and server do what is required far better. Use DC if it works for you.. not me:01:

[Dean141]

BT couldnt pay me to use it
Newsgroups i would be happy to eat shit for it

[Skiz]

That's funny, because I've had great luck with waffles and what.cd when it comes to proper logs, but it may just be the type of music I listen to (it breeds anal retention). For the log itself, I'm only interested in proper pre-gap length, CRC verification, no c2, and no extraction errors.

Offset correction is useless to me. Read correction is to make sure it doesn't lose small fractions of seconds at the beginning of data set, which only really matters very far down the reproduction line, when those errors affect real data and not complete silence.

To verify whether or not the rip is lossless, I just convert the FLACs to WAVs and run them through Cool Edit Pro for WA/SA. You seem pretty knowledgeable, though, so tell me if I should really bother verifying them through Daemon Tools.

And I don't know. I'm only care about music and obscure film, and Newsgroups just didn't do anything for me. DC was on par in my experience. Maybe I'll try it again.

There are several popular methods, though I am not familiar with the Cool Edit Pro method.

Most bullshit rips are done with a virtual drive and 99% of people use Daemon Tools as their virtual drive of choice. Since asshole pneubs are predictable and I assume they use Daemon Tools, I just retrace their steps. I won't go into detail with the how-to's as I won't teach anyone how to falsify rips. (Not saying you, just in general)

A good place to start is Audiochecker - http://www.dester.hu/English/home_e.html

[orfik]

BT couldnt pay me to use it
Newsgroups i would be happy to eat shit for it

How graphic. Anyway, I used to use audiochecker, but it returned too many false positives (1 in 20). Cool Edit allows you to run a spectral analysis on the WAV to see if it represents the full frequency spectrum. You can tell the difference between a proper WAV and a transcode by looking for compression artifacts in the waveform. So, at the end of the day, if I download an album with a proper log, proper cue, and impeccable music files, then kudos to the uploader if it is a fake, since they went through way too much trouble.

I wouldn't mind trying Newsgroups again, though. What's the best free option?