Why is everyone against traders?

[virtus134]

(Note this started out as a rant in one of the invite threads but I really have to know)

I'm confused. Here's what I have so far:

Apparently, trading disqualifies you from a lot of giveaways automatically, lowers your chances of getting a good tracker invite, and AUTOMATICALLY MAKES YOU A HOMOSEXUAL DOUCHE BAG WHO DESERVES TO DIE. That's the message I'm receiving here. "Trading" invites is looked down on, and those who do can usually count on not being chosen for a lot of giveaways.

But why?

A lot of traders make as good as (sometimes even better) contributions / giveaways to this forum as nontraders. It's not as if all traders do is trade. I've seen traders with much higher giveaway points than a lot of nontraders, and I'm hoping to make good giveaways in the future myself (despite the fact that I'm a trader.)

Most of the people who bitch and moan about trading invites in threads are people with many posts, but little or no giveaway points. So they have many posts because: They just like to talk, they have something to say, OR they are posting because they want to participate in a giveaway. But they have few/no rep points.. so they haven't given anything away themselves. How is being someone who takes and never gives better than someone who takes, gives, and trades? And most of the time when their posts are "You should give this away for free!", meaning that they want the invite but just don't have what the trader wants in return, hence the freeness.

A lot (not all) of the "give-awayers" here give only low level invites. They never give anything higher than a 3 (sometimes 4) but they still get the rep point. I really doubt they care about the community, only building up their rep and getting good invites in return.

I've had some people flame me, refuse to consider me for giveaways, change their minds about giving me something because I'm a trader. But to other people who aren't traders but haven't done anything besides beg for invites, give them the same invites that were refused to me.

So if I'm going to become a "second class citizen" just because I traded and I'm never going to be respected / participate in really good giveaways, I'm not even going to try and bother to do anything good here. I'm just going to trade, get what I need, and log out.

Yes, sure I exaggerated some details, I know the majority of the nontraders are great contributors and traders still quality for most of the giveaways, and that only a few people here are leechers, and that a lot of people don't even want BT rep. But every time I see a post complaining about trading it makes me wonder.

Long post. Thanks for reading.

[Submission]

People with nothing to trade are anti-traders.

People with something to trade are traders.

Then there are the generous who dont give a shit.

[fOrUmAs]

ufff its to long to read that:( :P, i dont have any problem if someone is trader and im not against them,but most trader will if they recive invite trader that acc for some better,and that is the reasone why people hate trader i think,and if they do that 70% are chance that inviter and invited be banned from site

[AkaiDoresu]

I can get what i want, i am a trader and I make a lot of giveaways as well.

Not everything is just black or white, there is a lot in between so being a trader doesnt mean nothing and ive noticed anti-trader attitude comes from noobs that always struggled to get an invite form fair, equivalent trade. They rather want to get it for free, and hmm, I act here exactly as I do it in my real life. Im a stock broker, i know how to trade, deal with people and i never expect that something will be given to me. If you think differently than good luck.

[raj3186]

Trading invites isn't as bad as trading accounts cuz if you trade accounts, chances are more that the account will be disabled in the future and also, most of the ppl who complain that their acc's got disabled for no reason actually get caught trading their accounts ;)

[psxcite]

We are here to share files, ideas and basically give freely of ourselves. Trading is not giving something free BUT asking for something in return. From a old school member of the warez community, this is frowned upon.

Share - don't sell or trade or expect anything in return. If everyone lived their lives in such a way, the world would be a better place. Hell, we wouldn't have ratios on sites if it not for the few individuals who take advantage of other's kindness.

In addition, sites frown on trading or even giving invites to strangers. How do you think so many invites end up for sale on Ebay? It's not from you giving your buddy from college an invite to BMTV. It's from a trade you made with a stranger so you could get what YOU wanted. With no concern for the security of the site.

[virtus134]

psxcite-

It's great you feel that way.

But, most everyone here follows something like "Don't be a trader, make some giveaways, get GET GOOD INVITES IN RETURN"

Sounds a lot like trading to me. People are still giving, but they expect something in return. If this "unwritten law" wasn't here, then most everyone here would be trading and would post a few giveaways every now and then.

I think I'll "give away" my hdbits invite to a user, and he might "give away" his revtt invite, and I'll just happen to get it.

[sear]

(Note this started out as a rant in one of the invite threads but I really have to know)

I'm confused. Here's what I have so far:

Apparently, trading disqualifies you from a lot of giveaways automatically, lowers your chances of getting a good tracker invite, and AUTOMATICALLY MAKES YOU A HOMOSEXUAL DOUCHE BAG WHO DESERVES TO DIE. That's the message I'm receiving here. "Trading" invites is looked down on, and those who do can usually count on not being chosen for a lot of giveaways.

But why?

You're giving homosexual douche bags a bad name here mate :tease:...seriously though it's looked down upon because it's a disrespectful thing to do if a tracker doesn't want you in then just deal with it people put in a lot of hard work to make trackers run smoothly and they don't like it when people piss all over that.

Also it increases the chance that a cheater or general dickwad invite seller is going to be invited to a site because lets face it if you have no respect for the no trading rule who's to say you'll respect other rules? I'm not saying all traders are cheaters far from it but when you do something out of greed (ie: trade) you're much less likely to vet the person who is taking your place.


A lot of traders make as good as (sometimes even better) contributions / giveaways to this forum as nontraders. It's not as if all traders do is trade. I've seen traders with much higher giveaway points than a lot of nontraders, and I'm hoping to make good giveaways in the future myself (despite the fact that I'm a trader.)

Most of the people who bitch and moan about trading invites in threads are people with many posts, but little or no giveaway points. So they have many posts because: They just like to talk, they have something to say, OR they are posting because they want to participate in a giveaway. But they have few/no rep points.. so they haven't given anything away themselves. How is being someone who takes and never gives better than someone who takes, gives, and trades? And most of the time when their posts are "You should give this away for free!", meaning that they want the invite but just don't have what the trader wants in return, hence the freeness.

Bullshit...first off they're not giveaway points they are rep points. which means they in practice have little to do with giveaways and much more to do with whether you're a "trusted trader" or not. Many people who are against trading turn off their rep points because they don't want to be associated with that kind of shit.

Also wtf do you know about what people do for this forum?

What have you done for this community?

I know that many invites are given out here in private to friends or people you think will make a good member by both traders and anti-traders I personally have given away and received invites to many sites from people I've met here so stop talking shit.


A lot (not all) of the "give-awayers" here give only low level invites. They never give anything higher than a 3 (sometimes 4) but they still get the rep point. I really doubt they care about the community, only building up their rep and getting good invites in return.

what can I say except fuck levels and who cares...if the site is helping someone because they want to use it and not just think of it as a stepping stone then that's what counts.


I've had some people flame me, refuse to consider me for giveaways, change their minds about giving me something because I'm a trader. But to other people who aren't traders but haven't done anything besides beg for invites, give them the same invites that were refused to me.

because you can't be trusted not to trade the invite or account :whistling


So if I'm going to become a "second class citizen" just because I traded and I'm never going to be respected / participate in really good giveaways, I'm not even going to try and bother to do anything good here. I'm just going to trade, get what I need, and log out.

you're attitude betrays your true intentions m8...


Yes, sure I exaggerated some details, I know the majority of the nontraders are great contributors and traders still quality for most of the giveaways, and that only a few people here are leechers, and that a lot of people don't even want BT rep. But every time I see a post complaining about trading it makes me wonder.

Long post. Thanks for reading.

you got that right at least :yup:

[Dr_Green_Thumb]

MAKES YOU A HOMOSEXUAL DOUCHE BAG WHO DESERVES TO DIE.

^ This and

Traders are more than likely responsible for the take down of OiNK. Some trader probably traded with an agent giving them access to the site to gather information.

[CowboyDave]

It's fairly obvious why even non staff have problems. Traders don't just risk their own accounts but their inviter's too and on some sites whole invite tree's. Also they hoard trackers they don't actually want just for trading purposes and cause sites to be even stricter with invites. If you want to honestly get into that tracker without breaking there rules upon entry you guys make it that much tougher.

[Nietzsche]

We are here to share files, ideas and basically give freely of ourselves. Trading is not giving something free BUT asking for something in return. From a old school member of the warez community, this is frowned upon.

Share - don't sell or trade or expect anything in return. If everyone lived their lives in such a way, the world would be a better place. Hell, we wouldn't have ratios on sites if it not for the few individuals who take advantage of other's kindness.

In addition, sites frown on trading or even giving invites to strangers. How do you think so many invites end up for sale on Ebay? It's not from you giving your buddy from college an invite to BMTV. It's from a trade you made with a stranger so you could get what YOU wanted. With no concern for the security of the site.


It doesnt make sense what you are saying. Dont sell or trade, world would be a better world? Do you know something about economics ? If there was no monetary system, no currency, no money, no voluntary exchange, you would still be living in a stone age.

Trading doesnt mean not giving away. There are just some things you cannot request. Like you cannot go to the car dealer and ask him to give you away one of his car ? World better ? Depends for who...

This is good thing that people want something in return there is nothing wrong with that. It's even better when someone decides to give something for free but to be honest, you can not live your life in a great world, constantly requesting something.

And as you may know or now, depends if you studied some economics before you will know that human being can never satisfy his needs. This is the reason why we have money and exchange system. To limit this infinite demand that we create - human greed.

[supper]

i will try to make it short as possible ppl acting like anti traders coz thay think thay will get free invites from tracker mods and this happen and tracker mods just think thay are honest and thay have been into trade before and almost of anti traders had onther accounts in fst before and its just new start for them and to ears all the tradeing and rep points about trades thay did here before all i just need to say its all bull**** and if u guys relly thank all traders is bad then u are wrong thay are good users more then anti traders and more usefull to the other members

and i wont bother fst members every day by posting reqs (i need this i need that)

and no body trying to help any traders here mods or the members thay call them selfs anti traders

i dont say all mods here are bad but some of them relly got the whole story in wrong way


trade is bad ok i am with u but what the trade will do if every body dont care about him in give aways traders not allowed by mods u was a trader so what thay can do (nothing) just one thing and it will be the last thing thay will make new accounts and typ in them sign trades is bad and this shi* and jump in every singel trade thred and swear at the trader its relly joke and its turn to become a silly one to be honest

[CowboyDave]

Man, ever heard of a full stop? That is mission to read.

[virtus134]

Okay. Nice points some of you make. Especially the economics one. But I just want to make sure I get one point across.

MOST everyone on here would be traders and there would be a lot fewer giveaways if rep and nontrading weren't so important here.

[pro267]

But, most everyone here follows something like "Don't be a trader, make some giveaways, get GET GOOD INVITES IN RETURN"

Sounds a lot like trading to me. People are still giving, but they expect something in return. If this "unwritten law" wasn't here, then most everyone here would be trading and would post a few giveaways every now and then.
The rule is you're supposed to give to people who you trust. People who you befriend are easier for you to trust, therefor some people have been giving advice to others to stay around, get to know people and let others get to know you. It is possible that at some stage people who get to know you will help you out if they can, but that is just a side effect and not the main goal, or at least shouldn't be. I, personally, have a lot more respect for people who'll see some random noob looking for help and just help him out, instead of those doing fancy giveaways where everyone can see how "generous" they are, only to later return and say "u dezervs it!!1" when he finally begs for his level 12 invite.

Back on topic: somehow, over time, some people did get it wrong, and it turned out to be "help others and they will help you back in return". This contains the expectation factor, which I agree can be seen as some sort of trading, after a fashion. Now we're at the next stage where people go around with a "first make friends then ask for level X" sort of thing, which is basically prostituting friendship for invites and something that I have to admit really pisses me off personally.

[sear]

i will try to make it short as possible ppl acting like anti traders coz thay think thay will get free invites from tracker mods and this happen and tracker mods just think thay are honest and thay have been into trade before and almost of anti traders had onther accounts in fst before and its just new start for them and to ears all the tradeing and rep points about trades thay did here before all i just need to say its all bull**** and if u guys relly thank all traders is bad then u are wrong thay are good users more then anti traders and more usefull to the other members

and i wont bother fst members every day by posting reqs (i need this i need that)

and no body trying to help any traders here mods or the members thay call them selfs anti traders

i dont say all mods here are bad but some of them relly got the whole story in wrong way

:wacko:...I think you're the one who's got the story the wrong way, and people that just pretend not to like trading are the same as traders. They're opportunists. Also I've seen at least two people I know for sure are on second accounts recently and guess what they're traders.

[mrnobody]

MAKES YOU A HOMOSEXUAL DOUCHE BAG WHO DESERVES TO DIE.

^ This and

Traders are more than likely responsible for the take down of OiNK. Some trader probably traded with an agent giving them access to the site to gather information.

please don't tell me u actually believe that. If they (authorities) NEED to access a site...they got money n they will buy in the access.



and no body trying to help any traders here mods or the members thay call them selfs anti traders

i dont say all mods here are bad but some of them relly got the whole story in wrong way


:yup:

Now, going to your question. Most anti-trader are against trader because...

1. Trading is NOT allowed by many bittorrent sites

2. Invites are meant to be free!

3. It's not about who has what, it's about who is what.

However, i do believe none of the factors above should encourage users at FST to thrash traders because...

1. Traders are basis of FST. As pointed out, most of the giveaway in bittorrent section [is probably] made by traders

2. FST itself has hidden group for hardcore traders. Meanwhile they do also have hidden group for extreme anti-trader.

But then i suppose everyone has FREE WILL and right to SPEAK WHATEVER THEY WANT...so thrash, break, scratch, beat, kill, shoot, punch, curse each out out...but i don't care because...

I am NOT a trader but NOT an anti-trader either :D

[AkaiDoresu]

It bothers only loosers how other people get invites. Don't worry about that, make your 5 requests a day and be happy but don't judge other people like they are criminals.

I have my way to get invites and I should be none of your problems, I make giveaways and help sometime so this is they only thing you should care about.

I don't care about rep points as someone mentioned this as the only factor forcing traders to giveaway. To be honest I have about 120 successful trades in here and I never actually cared about those points. Just waste of time in my opinion.

[sear]

^ This and

Traders are more than likely responsible for the take down of OiNK. Some trader probably traded with an agent giving them access to the site to gather information.

please don't tell me u actually believe that. if they (authorities) NEED to access a site...they got money n they will buy in the access.

:yup:

That's true they will buy the invite no need to trade at all...but what I'm wondering is where does the invite seller get the invite? ;)

[supper]

i will try to make it short as possible ppl acting like anti traders coz thay think thay will get free invites from tracker mods and this happen and tracker mods just think thay are honest and thay have been into trade before and almost of anti traders had onther accounts in fst before and its just new start for them and to ears all the tradeing and rep points about trades thay did here before all i just need to say its all bull**** and if u guys relly thank all traders is bad then u are wrong thay are good users more then anti traders and more usefull to the other members

and i wont bother fst members every day by posting reqs (i need this i need that)

and no body trying to help any traders here mods or the members thay call them selfs anti traders

i dont say all mods here are bad but some of them relly got the whole story in wrong way

:wacko:...I think you're the one who's got the story the wrong way, and people that just pretend not to like trading are the same as traders. They're opportunists. Also I've seen at least two people I know for sure are on second accounts recently and guess what they're traders.iam not sure if i got the story in the wrong way if u say the same thing u are agree with me sear u just said the same thing:blink:

[CowboyDave]

If your a member of a private organization, you don't ever want people buying/trading there way in. They should be chosen because there liked, trusted and they will contribute to your organization. That is how private torrent sites should be considered, especially when the activities on there are potentially illegal.

[scampthedog]

People are against traders because its a status symbol to be an anti-trader.

[sear]

iam not sure if i got the story in the wrong way if u say the same thing u are agree with me sear u just said the same thing:blink:

not quite m8 :noes: I agree that there are fake anti-traders here but my point is that not all are full of shit and in my opinion and experience traders are more likely to be the one trying to pull the wool over someones eyes.

[pro267]

I have my way to get invites and I should be none of your problems
Dude, this guy just made it our business by starting this thread, so if you don't like the answers he's getting here then fuck off.

[AkaiDoresu]

I have my way to get invites and I should be none of your problems
Dude, this guy just made it our business by starting this thread, so if you don't like the answers he's getting here then fuck off.


You are struggling with comprehension and getting the main idea from even a short paragraph. I will suggest to go back to school instead of telling me what to do.

And I will be so kind to rephrase my point again. People should not worry about things like trading or getting it for free. We are all here to get invites so let's get them and stop accusing each other with some bullshit like little kids.

[psxcite]

We are here to share files, ideas and basically give freely of ourselves. Trading is not giving something free BUT asking for something in return. From a old school member of the warez community, this is frowned upon.

Share - don't sell or trade or expect anything in return. If everyone lived their lives in such a way, the world would be a better place. Hell, we wouldn't have ratios on sites if it not for the few individuals who take advantage of other's kindness.

In addition, sites frown on trading or even giving invites to strangers. How do you think so many invites end up for sale on Ebay? It's not from you giving your buddy from college an invite to BMTV. It's from a trade you made with a stranger so you could get what YOU wanted. With no concern for the security of the site.


It doesnt make sense what you are saying. Dont sell or trade, world would be a better world? Do you know something about economics ? If there was no monetary system, no currency, no money, no voluntary exchange, you would still be living in a stone age.

Trading doesnt mean not giving away. There are just some things you cannot request. Like you cannot go to the car dealer and ask him to give you away one of his car ? World better ? Depends for who...

This is good thing that people want something in return there is nothing wrong with that. It's even better when someone decides to give something for free but to be honest, you can not live your life in a great world, constantly requesting something.

And as you may know or now, depends if you studied some economics before you will know that human being can never satisfy his needs. This is the reason why we have money and exchange system. To limit this infinite demand that we create - human greed.

Yes, I know economics. And not just the micro and macro they teach in college. Ideally, we as a race will evolve beyond a need for monetary exchange. That would not have us in the "stone age" as you put it, but propel us towards a Utopian community.

And yes, human beings can satisfy their needs. Maybe you should study some sociology and maybe a bit more philosophy.

[supper]

iam not sure if i got the story in the wrong way if u say the same thing u are agree with me sear u just said the same thing:blink:

not quite m8 :noes: I agree that there are fake anti-traders here but my point is that not all are full of shit and in my opinion and experience traders are more likely to be the one trying to pull the wool over someones eyes.yes i agree with that not all the anti traders and not all the traders too when trader just trade only for trader and have high levels this is full of **** and when the anti trader just acting he dont like trade only coz he wanna get some trackers not coz he relly belive in anti trade thing then its full of **** too

any way i hope this thread will getting closed soon coz many fights will begin:cry:

[sear]

yes i agree with that not all the anti traders and not all the traders too when trader just trade only for trader and have high levels this is full of **** and when the anti trader just acting he dont like trade only coz he wanna get some trackers not coz he relly belive in anti trade thing then its full of **** too

any way i hope this thread will getting closed soon coz many fights will begin:cry:

well you're right we agree there :) how about we agree to disagree on whether trading is ok :happy:

p.s. nah they shouldn't close it...best thread of the day.

[supper]

yes i agree with that not all the anti traders and not all the traders too when trader just trade only for trader and have high levels this is full of **** and when the anti trader just acting he dont like trade only coz he wanna get some trackers not coz he relly belive in anti trade thing then its full of **** too

any way i hope this thread will getting closed soon coz many fights will begin:cry:

well you're right we agree there :) how about we agree to disagree on whether trading is ok :happy:

p.s. nah they shouldn't close it...best thread of the day.np santa:D

[AkaiDoresu]

It doesnt make sense what you are saying. Dont sell or trade, world would be a better world? Do you know something about economics ? If there was no monetary system, no currency, no money, no voluntary exchange, you would still be living in a stone age.

Trading doesnt mean not giving away. There are just some things you cannot request. Like you cannot go to the car dealer and ask him to give you away one of his car ? World better ? Depends for who...

This is good thing that people want something in return there is nothing wrong with that. It's even better when someone decides to give something for free but to be honest, you can not live your life in a great world, constantly requesting something.

And as you may know or now, depends if you studied some economics before you will know that human being can never satisfy his needs. This is the reason why we have money and exchange system. To limit this infinite demand that we create - human greed.

Yes, I know economics. And not just the micro and macro they teach in college. Ideally, we as a race will evolve beyond a need for monetary exchange. That would not have us in the "stone age" as you put it, but propel us towards a Utopian community.

And yes, human beings can satisfy their needs. Maybe you should study some sociology and maybe a bit more philosophy.

Utopian community can only exist among wealthy society that already satisfied their needs at certain level. And it this specific case this wealthy society is called traders in here my friend.

Where you have poor society living in socialism like it was in USSR than it leads to hunger, death and suffering. People need to evolve drastically in order to become part of true Utopian community and so far there are only few nasty rich nations that can practice such system.

To get into more exmaples I will say this: if you have person for whom throwing out FTN invite is just nothing since he has a lot of good invites than he can be a good member of utopia community. But when the rest is desperately begging for the invites and competing against each other than we have difference in the wealth that each member represents, and this leads to final failure so being a next Karl Max on this forum definitely is not a good idea.

[mrnobody]

please don't tell me u actually believe that. if they (authorities) NEED to access a site...they got money n they will buy in the access.

:yup:

That's true they will buy the invite no need to trade at all...but what I'm wondering is where does the invite seller get the invite? ;)

a ebay seller said....*cough* V*G :lol:

@ Nietzsche (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/nietzsche-184266), comparing economics and torrenting does not seem meaningful to me at all coz economics is about making money but bittorrent is about saving money. Beside, things called “rules” come before economics. When you sign up for a tracker, you tick the checkbox saying “I agree with rules and agreement” and one of the rule is not to trade invite/account (for most of the tracker).... And if you are to pull that out into “real” world it’s like trading cocaine and guns illegally. Okay, i hyped it a bit :D

[Cheeseman1208]

It bothers only loosers how other people get invites. Don't worry about that, make your 5 requests a day and be happy but don't judge other people like they are criminals.

So your calling the people who would rather make friends than sell their soul to trading "loosers"? Am I not getting something? Trading is not only a threat to the site's security, but it's a slap in the face to the community as well.

If you think about it, the concept of invitations has been perverted beyond what it started out as. It is meant to be a means of inviting friends, people you know and trust, not somebody who's bribing you with his own invites. For all you know, that person could be a cheater, scammer, or MPAA agent. You never know. And if you decided to trade your own accounts or invites, your putting your good name on the line in the process. If somebody you traded with, under your usual account name cheats, it'll be your head on the chopping-block. Same thing goes for invites. Call me what you will, but if you respect the nature of P2P communities in general, then you should be against trading.

[AkaiDoresu]

It bothers only loosers how other people get invites. Don't worry about that, make your 5 requests a day and be happy but don't judge other people like they are criminals.

So your calling the people who would rather make friends than sell their soul to trading "loosers"? Am I not getting something? Trading is not only a threat to the site's security, but it's a slap in the face to the community as well.

If you think about it, the concept of invitations has been perverted beyond what it started out as. It is meant to be a means of inviting friends, people you know and trust, not somebody who's bribing you with his own invites. For all you know, that person could be a cheater, scammer, or MPAA agent. You never know. And if you decided to trade your own accounts or invites, your putting your good name on the line in the process. If somebody you traded with, under your usual account name cheats, it'll be your head on the chopping-block. Same thing goes for invites. Call me what you will, but if you respect the nature of P2P communities in general, then you should be against trading.


If there were no traders, MPAA would just come here, appear to be "good" and get your giveaways... If we come to the security matter than my friend the only safe way is inviting people that you know from real life... So dont blame traders, just don't..

[CowboyDave]

For the record I am not one of those full of shit anti traders preaching in all the trading topics but this topic asked for opinions of non traders. Yes this is new account here, no I'm not starting over to try to make myself out to be some sort of goody two shoes so people will invite to sites, I come from another P2P forum and have all the invites I want.

[Cheffy]

Well im against trading since thats the rule on most sites. Im not willing to lose access to my sites because someone i invite starts trading. So i stay away from traders.

But i do agree, the antitrading have totally taken off here. People that i know have traded their way to almost every single site there is out there are all of a sudden "anti traders"

[mrnobody]

Recognizing trader as a threat to security is a JOKE! Do you actually thing every trader has programing knowledge? or will trade with MPAA? Again, if authorities HAVE TO get an account they don't need to get over at FST and trade or beg for an invite....i mean they got money, they will buy it off ebay, if not hire some hacker and hack off some accounts or even worst make some pointless statement (as they did for OiNK) and pull the site down.

The ONLY reason trading should be discouraged is because the site does not allow it. IF the site allows it (there are plenty who do) then go for it!

[Cheeseman1208]

So your calling the people who would rather make friends than sell their soul to trading "loosers"? Am I not getting something? Trading is not only a threat to the site's security, but it's a slap in the face to the community as well.

If you think about it, the concept of invitations has been perverted beyond what it started out as. It is meant to be a means of inviting friends, people you know and trust, not somebody who's bribing you with his own invites. For all you know, that person could be a cheater, scammer, or MPAA agent. You never know. And if you decided to trade your own accounts or invites, your putting your good name on the line in the process. If somebody you traded with, under your usual account name cheats, it'll be your head on the chopping-block. Same thing goes for invites. Call me what you will, but if you respect the nature of P2P communities in general, then you should be against trading.


If there were no traders, MPAA would just come here, appear to be "good" and get your giveaways... If we come to the security matter than my friend the only safe way is inviting people that you know from real life... So dont blame traders, just don't..
I never put giveaways on a pedestal. They are, in my opinion, double edged. Yes, you're are giving back to the community etc, but your also doing the same thing as a trader, except instead of invites, you get rep in return.

And yes, aside from one giveaway, I have given invites only to real life friends and a couple online friends (people that I've known for several months and who are good people). So your right, I can't just blame traders, but they are a large portion of the problem.

[MrLazy]

Im personally not against it, but i certainly do not like it .. since most trackers don't allow their invites/ accounts to be traded. I'm just respecting the tracker and their policies, thats all.

[sleepyy]

People allways talk about copyright agents entering a site gaining access to gather information on it's users then later mention they have been infiltrated by these people and later you know the site is gone.

I have asked the question before why is it that sites that are allways open for sign ups are still open for year's and still stand strong why are they still here and not closed down? i can't remember the response i received maybe because i did not agree.

Everybody knows that the site owners are not doing nothing wrong because none of the files are hosted on the sites server's bla bla what they do is provide community access and a place of knowledge to share with everybody and they tell you where to get the files from i know this could be rephrashed but testies to you understand.

Just because some article hits the net does not mean it's 100 percent accurate or true.

i have no problems with Traders exsept account trades and account giveaways. Reason most people who trade accounts really do not care for the indevidual who is seeking that account they know most of the time the account will be banned and they have received whatever it is they are seeking and the person who once had a slim chance to join a community has gone from 50% to 1% because both people are now banned maybe he knew maybe he did not in most cases i beleive person wanting the account never knew it would be banned remember the second you join a forum such as this and do a giveaway most sites frown upon this and if you are banned for that reason good they have rules and force you to read them you disrespected their rules they enforced them you have no right to complain for this reason.

Trade has been around a very long time people traded with copper bronze food anything that has value and demand it's not going away and never will unless everybody is equal what a boring world that would be.

I don't trade tried once it turned out lemons i quit. if i want something i ask i only invite those i feel i can trust by instinct and attitude that may be a valued member of that site if not they are taking a space for somebody who can be.

The selling of invites i frown upon.

[Cheeseman1208]

Alright, were getting off topic. The MPAA example was just an example. The point is, anybody who wants an invite can get an invite through trading and giveaways.

[psxcite]

So your calling the people who would rather make friends than sell their soul to trading "loosers"? Am I not getting something? Trading is not only a threat to the site's security, but it's a slap in the face to the community as well.

If you think about it, the concept of invitations has been perverted beyond what it started out as. It is meant to be a means of inviting friends, people you know and trust, not somebody who's bribing you with his own invites. For all you know, that person could be a cheater, scammer, or MPAA agent. You never know. And if you decided to trade your own accounts or invites, your putting your good name on the line in the process. If somebody you traded with, under your usual account name cheats, it'll be your head on the chopping-block. Same thing goes for invites. Call me what you will, but if you respect the nature of P2P communities in general, then you should be against trading.


If there were no traders, MPAA would just come here, appear to be "good" and get your giveaways... If we come to the security matter than my friend the only safe way is inviting people that you know from real life... So dont blame traders, just don't..

Wait a minute....

So trading prevents the MPAA from getting into sites? Ok, it's official. You've just won the "WTF" quote of the month. Please forward me a mailing address so I can send you your trophy.

[supper]

If there were no traders, MPAA would just come here, appear to be "good" and get your giveaways... If we come to the security matter than my friend the only safe way is inviting people that you know from real life... So dont blame traders, just don't..

Wait a minute....

So trading prevents the MPAA from getting into sites? Ok, it's official. You've just won the "WTF" quote of the month. Please forward me a mailing address so I can send you your trophy.ok can u say ur point nicely plz thanx:)

[mrnobody]

i am loving this thread lolz

[danio]

If there were no traders, MPAA would just come here, appear to be "good" and get your giveaways... If we come to the security matter than my friend the only safe way is inviting people that you know from real life... So dont blame traders, just don't..

Wait a minute....

So trading prevents the MPAA from getting into sites? Ok, it's official. You've just won the "WTF" quote of the month. Please forward me a mailing address so I can send you your trophy.

lol. what i think he meant to say was that he thinks giveaways hurts just as much as trading so banning trading wouldn't do any good... correct me if i am wrong :)

[Artemis]

well that is twisted logic if I ever heard it, why do the trackers, that you wish to join have rules against the trading of site invites or accounts? or is this just another thing that you do not factor into your view of the world Akaidoresu ?
There are many members here who are not here for the invites at all but the community, to make friends and to help people with their time or invites, I myself do not make giveaways, but invite people I think are worthy in private without any fanfare, and that is not even close to being my primary reason for participating here.
By treating the invites/accounts you hold as a marketable commodity you are going against the spirit of the communities that you belong to, just to get the next 'level' .
Why are so many invite systems closed now, with only the staff issuing invites ? because of the trading of a/c's and invites on the site which they are absolutely against, so trading is making it harder to belong to some communities. If you took the time to get to know people and become a valued member of the communities you belong to instead of treating each of them as a bargaining chip then you would become a member of the communities you wish to belong to with ease.
As to the general question as to why people are against traders, people who trade, either openly as traders or in private while pretending not to as 'anti-traders' bring about far more scamming and hit & running in the community because once you have traded off that well buffered tracker for the next one the next person inline who didnt really work to get that ratio or participate in the tracker is just going to leech the hell out of the buffer, suck it dry or suck what he wants out of it then flick it on, you treat the private communities like baseball cards THIS IS WRONG and against all the effort that the staff put in and the people who genuinely want to be a part of the community on that tracker.
It is the treating the tracker communities as a commodity which is wrong, which is against the spirit of sharing, and against all the hard work of the people that make an effort as staff or active members to make them a community.

[sear]

never mind

[masterbat]

trading will encourage hit and running ?
trading is a security risk ( seriously wtf )

people have traded a lot of TL accounts and invites here , did the quality of the site go down ? no

did they got shutdown by MPAA . no

its just hip to say trading sucks . thats all

just like some folks who think its hip to be high

[mrnobody]

well that is twisted logic if I ever heard it, why do the trackers, that you wish to join have rules against the trading of site invites or accounts? or is this just another thing that you do not factor into your view of the world Akaidoresu ?
There are many members here who are not here for the invites at all but the community, to make friends and to help people with their time or invites, I myself do not make giveaways, but invite people I think are worthy in private without any fanfare, and that is not even close to being my primary reason for participating here.
By treating the invites/accounts you hold as a marketable commodity you are going against the spirit of the communities that you belong to, just to get the next 'level' .
Why are so many invite systems closed now, with only the staff issuing invites ? because of the trading of a/c's and invites on the site which they are absolutely against, so trading is making it harder to belong to some communities. If you took the time to get to know people and become a valued member of the communities you belong to instead of treating each of them as a bargaining chip then you would become a member of the communities you wish to belong to with ease.
As to the general question as to why people are against traders, people who trade, either openly as traders or in private while pretending not to as 'anti-traders' bring about far more scamming and hit & running in the community because once you have traded off that well buffered tracker for the next one the next person inline who didnt really work to get that ratio or participate in the tracker is just going to leech the hell out of the buffer, suck it dry or suck what he wants out of it then flick it on, you treat the private communities like baseball cards THIS IS WRONG and against all the effort that the staff put in and the people who genuinely want to be a part of the community on that tracker.
It is the treating the tracker communities as a commodity which is wrong, which is against the spirit of sharing, and against all the hard work of the people that make an effort as staff or active members to make them a community.

Very well stated.

Absolutely agree!

[SgtMajor]

Simple answer - tracker rules forbid account trading, some allow invite trading.

Respect the tracker, respect your inviter, the person who invited YOU to the tracker, not some joe down the road 2 months later because you don't like nor care for the tracker anymore, if you do not want it due to it not meeting your needs anymore (or as many say here "I have a better tracker" - like define better?? - higher up the ranking thread you mean?), then let it expire in accordance with the tracker rules, it is rude, damned rude, to pass that tracker on to someone else, especially someone who the inviter may have a severe dislike to anyway and wouldn't have given him an invite if he was the last person on earth!

How about I invited you to a tracker, and 2 months later dropped you a PM to see how you were getting on:

"Hi John, how are you, how are you liking the tracker so far, good isn't it?"

The reply:

"Wtf are you, my name is is not John and gtf out of my inbox and leave me alone while I buffer this account to hand it over to someone else for something bigger & better on that rankings list"

I think I would be rather pissed off with that, wouldn't you??

[mrnobody]

SgtMajor (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/sgtmajor-79679) LOL u scared the crap out of me but I recognize there is a good reason to be scared.

[Artemis]

I notice that most of the responses here like yours masterbat concentrate on one small area of argument yet do not approach the fundamental whole of the argument as in my one, you just pick and choose the parts to debate , without looking at the complete argument.
To reply to the small part of the debate that you picked on, once you have traded your buffered a/c can you guarantee it will not be used to hit & run, do you even care what happens to the a/c once it passes out of your hands?
And yes a/c trading has degraded the quality of TL since that is the site you have chosen to select, right now there is a huge purge going on on the site because of an active invite selling ring, selling being the next step to trading.........

[virtus134]

SgtMajor- I've been part of several torrent sites, but I've never seen one that allowed any kind of trading whatsoever.

Giveaways are kind of okay though since you're not getting anything in return, but people are still banned from trackers because of giving away invites. So don't say that trading isn't allowed but giving them away in giveaways is. Tracker invites are meant for your close, trusted friends (supposedly), not random strangers on the internet whose closest thing you have to trust usually is their word, ratio proofs, and speed tests.

[SgtMajor]

SgtMajor- I've been part of several torrent sites, but I've never seen one that allowed any kind of trading whatsoever.

Giveaways are kind of okay though since you're not getting anything in return, but people are still banned from trackers because of giving away invites. So don't say that trading isn't allowed but giving them away in giveaways is. Tracker invites are meant for your close, trusted friends (supposedly), not random strangers on the internet whose closest thing you have to trust usually is their word, ratio proofs, and speed tests.

There's a thread in the invites section where it lists a host of trackers that allow invite trading, or just don't care either way, the classic always off the top of my head is Oink - it encouraged invite trading of its own and other sites, so maybe they got what was coming?

I'm not too worried about invites, but I really, really detest account trading, and I never mentioned giveaways, but those that know me know I look out for those actually wanting a tracker for a reason, and some sites rules are against giveaways of their invites anyway (SCT, SCC etc), so the bottom line is always respect the tracker rules, give them the respect they deserve and you will get the respect back by doing so, and those invites that come with respect will do you proud, much more so than by trading your way in.

[mrnobody]

virtus134, elektronik allows account/invite trade (was stated by a elektronik community rep here at FST)

most of the tracker do not ban users for invite giveaway neither they have rules stating invites are meant for "trusted friend"...yet, there are plenty of bittorrent communities /tracker where invite giveaway isn't allowed either.

The whole point should not be "trader vs anti-trader" rather as already stated...it's about respecting tracker rules.

edit: sarge beat me again =/

[supper]

ok noob question why trackers in the beginning open sign up to every one its could be cheater or scammer or even agient and the tracker staff even dont care about that and when the tracker starting doing well and find out there is demand thay just looking for the security and be careful of tradeing invites or accounts or selling them or what ever as i said i just need to know why its noob question

[virtus134]

Okay that's probably the only thing that I can agree with.

Giving away invites abides more with tracker rules then trading them. At least that gives me some insight.

Oh and when I made this thread I wanted it to tell me why most people are against trading, for it to be over 5 pages long, and start an argument. It has done all 3. Yes. That's awesome.

[mrnobody]

@ supper (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/supper-158428), lol it isn't noob question.

At beginning for most new tracker # of registered user plays significant role. However, when their demand increases...they can always purge inactive account, hunt down cheater and scammer. BTW, i do believe cheater and scammer (not plenty though) are needed for a tracker...perhaps to alert the staff and make improvement in their security and stuff.

[supper]

@ supper (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/supper-158428), lol it isn't noob question.

At beginning for most new tracker # of registered user plays significant role. However, when their demand increases...they can always purge inactive account, hunt down cheater and scammer. BTW, i do believe cheater and scammer (not plenty though) are needed for a tracker...perhaps to alert the staff and make improvement in their security and stuff.:Dthank you squirr3l (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/members/squirr3l-179360) all clear now:happy:

[sear]

Okay that's probably the only thing that I can agree with.

Giving away invites abides more with tracker rules then trading them. At least that gives me some insight.

Oh and when I made this thread I wanted it to tell me why most people are against trading, for it to be over 5 pages long, and start an argument. It has done all 3. Yes. That's awesome.

lol what do you expect these threads always do that...:01:

[grimms]

Yea i agree with SgtMAjor cannot stand account traders. They make it bad for everyone, alot of sites moved to invite only due to that and the ultimate effect that could come. A crackdown. You may have better offers to give but have you really earned your way or respect at that?

[Submission]

Simple answer - tracker rules forbid account trading, some allow invite trading.

Respect the tracker, respect your inviter, the person who invited YOU to the tracker, not some joe down the road 2 months later because you don't like nor care for the tracker anymore, if you do not want it due to it not meeting your needs anymore (or as many say here "I have a better tracker" - like define better?? - higher up the ranking thread you mean?), then let it expire in accordance with the tracker rules, it is rude, damned rude, to pass that tracker on to someone else, especially someone who the inviter may have a severe dislike to anyway and wouldn't have given him an invite if he was the last person on earth!

How about I invited you to a tracker, and 2 months later dropped you a PM to see how you were getting on:

"Hi John, how are you, how are you liking the tracker so far, good isn't it?"

The reply:

"Wtf are you, my name is is not John and gtf out of my inbox and leave me alone while I buffer this account to hand it over to someone else for something bigger & better on that rankings list"

I think I would be rather pissed off with that, wouldn't you??

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

oh noes!! im devastated!!

[Luthair]

I dont trade at all, Mostly due to the sites asking people not to :-\ I dont want a ban from a site.

[aysomc]

most people here have summed it up nicely. i thought the guy who said the people who dont trade do it because they dont have anything was rather funny.

[cocalait]

Mate if I throw a party and there's room for 200 people and I invite you, it's not nice from you to talk to the first person you cross on the street and tell him "I got this invite for XXX party, give me 10 bucks and you are in" Because of the fact that I invited YOU not someone you want. (and the matter of inviting an stranger is worse). bye

ps : definitely my english sucks

[Tagentx]

If anyone here was truly worried about the welfare of a tracker, why would you participate in forums like this. Half of the trackers I have, I never heard of till I read about it at a forum just like this one. You guys with your "its against the rules" , "respect the tracker". Lmao wtf!!! Stop bitching here and go to the tracker that you so treasure and participate in their forums and stop advertising to the world every detail of every tracker on the internet.

[RealitY]

So if I'm going to become a "second class citizen" just because I traded and I'm never going to be respected / participate in really good giveaways, I'm not even going to try and bother to do anything good here. I'm just going to trade, get what I need, and log out.
Not sure why but had to quote this.


Bullshit...first off they're not giveaway points they are rep points. which means they in practice have little to do with giveaways and much more to do with whether you're a "trusted trader" or not.
They were changed to BT Rep since most rep comes from giveaways and not from trades so this isnt accurate.


Some trader probably traded with an agent giving them access to the site to gather information.
Lets not go there.


Now we're at the next stage where people go around with a "first make friends then ask for level X" sort of thing
These things change and as time goes on things balance themselves.


FST itself has hidden group for hardcore traders. Meanwhile they do also have hidden group for extreme anti-trader.
The intent is to create a balance.


But then i suppose everyone has FREE WILL and right to SPEAK WHATEVER THEY WANT
Well generally at FST this true.


The ONLY reason trading should be discouraged is because the site does not allow it. IF the site allows it (there are plenty who do) then go for it!
This is rather straight forward isnt it.


Im personally not against it, but i certainly do not like it .. since most trackers don't allow their invites/ accounts to be traded. I'm just respecting the tracker and their policies, thats all.
If your referring to invites might be argued most dont have issue what you do with them. If a tracker has invites and gives them to you perhaps they should trust what you do with them. If they dont then perhaps they shouldnt have them.

Most trackers give invites as reward for ratios and similar and are well aware enough of their members will trade them. To some of the tracker staff this isnt an issue as it grows the site which is why they have invites to begin with...

[Ænima]

Trading should be held as moral and honest when without scammers because of the implication of trading invites value-for-value.

To be against traders is to be against the free market. :angry:

[Polarbear]

i sometimes find it very amusing, when traders realize, that they reached the end of their blind alley.
they tried so hard, got scammed, banned and broke every tracker's rule just to find out that they won't get into the tracker they want by trading.

that must be so frustrating.


so here's a message to all newcomers who read this thread:

-wanna get into the greatest and best sites in the whole bittorrent world?
-wanna be a member of sites that every stupid trader dreams about?

here's the solution:

don't trade!

even those trackers and communities you think are impossible to get in are looking for good and trustworthy new members all the time.

if you trade and break rules you will never get there - never!

[Artemis]

I thought I would leave this thread after my earlier posts but here is a perfect example of what I was explaining helpfully colored in red to highlight it, how exactly did tracker invites become a commodity to be traded in a 'free market' ?

That is truly pathetic......


Trading should be held as moral and honest when without scammers because of the implication of trading invites value-for-value.

To be against traders is to be against the free market. :angry:

[blackbird]

dont trade . its against the tracker rules , simple as that .. just follow the rules , consider that as a way to say "thank you" to the trackers that let you download stuff for free

[SiNa]

dont trade . its against the tracker rules , simple as that .. just follow the rules , consider that as a way to say "thank you" to the trackers that let you download stuff for free

well actually we should say thank you to the uploaders (or the scene:happy:) as well as the tracker, but the uploaders are giving us the free stuff

[kyrcer]

When I don't need acc because of not use I give it sb who want for free so is this trade ?

[kyrcer]

When I don't need acc because of not use I give it sb who want for free so is this trade ?

[Cheeseman1208]

I thought I would leave this thread after my earlier posts but here is a perfect example of what I was explaining helpfully colored in red to highlight it, how exactly did tracker invites become a commodity to be traded in a 'free market' ?

That is truly pathetic......


Trading should be held as moral and honest when without scammers because of the implication of trading invites value-for-value.

To be against traders is to be against the free market. :angry:
Lol.....

So you think torrent sites are commodities that are bought, sold, and traded on a free market?

[bikernin]

When I don't need acc because of not use I give it sb who want for free so is this trade ?

why dont u just delete your account. or let it be disabled because of inactivity. these days even if you give away an account to someone its will get disabled anyway. why risk getting your inviter into trouble?

[mrnobody]

Trading should be held as moral and honest when without scammers because of the implication of trading invites value-for-value.

To be against traders is to be against the free market. :angry:



When you sign up for a tracker, you tick the checkbox saying “I agree with rules and agreement” and one of the rule is not to trade invite/account (for most of the tracker)

1o I don't see ANY morality in breaking rules of something you are feeding upon.

2o And honesty? Tracker give you invite to invite people, not to trade 'em.

When you say "free market" You realize that you are comparing internet to real life? And...you realize it's not really free because tracker staff are chasing after you?


And if you are to pull that out into “real” world it’s like trading cocaine and guns illegally. Okay, i hyped it a bit :D

[bikernin]

wow this thread is really raging like a fire. i really dont see the point. i seriously doubt if any traders are gonna stop trading or any anti-traders are gonna become traders. everybody is gonna stay the same, but only be more bitter with each other. i have my own set of views but i rather not add fuel to the fire. it would be really wise to close this thread.
besides no one here has their lives depending on torrents :D

[carpediemm]

Nobody like traders cause invites are meant to be free and in the end, all account will be disabled.

[kaffeine]

People take the "level" of trackers way too literally, and it really gets ridiculous, to the point of threads in the invite sections where the OP says something like "I have level 4, I need any level 5" wtf is this?!

These "levels" have given trackers some kind of (fake) value, and people think they're in the stock market in here, signing up on "lower levels", buffering them so they gain some value, then trade for the next level and repeat the process... it's sad really.

People forget that these are communities. You can find almost every file everywhere, so why are people trading to get these "high level" trackers? just so they can put a new nice little user bar in their sig, and feel above others (again, just sad).

They don't care for the community (and that's obvious, since they will be using the account of another person, which is extremely bizarre if you're interested in participating in a community), and they continue the stock market game breaking trackers' rules.

Invites are meant to be given for free, to someone you trust and consider will be an asset to the community where you're already a member. Traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.

(oh, and for those who say that every non-trader is against trading because they don't have anything to trade, or they traded in the past and now don't have the need to trade, or trade with another account... well, I will just say that that is a very pathetic way of justifying what you do)

Remember: these are communities. make friends, participate in the forums/irc, follow trackers' rules and you will never have to trade for anything.

[wheeloftime]

i sometimes find it very amusing, when traders realize, that they reached the end of their blind alley.
they tried so hard, got scammed, banned and broke every tracker's rule just to find out that they won't get into the tracker they want by trading.

that must be so frustrating.


so here's a message to all newcomers who read this thread:

-wanna get into the greatest and best sites in the whole bittorrent world?
-wanna be a member of sites that every stupid trader dreams about?

here's the solution:

don't trade!

even those trackers and communities you think are impossible to get in are looking for good and trustworthy new members all the time.

if you trade and break rules you will never get there - never!

If you have a fast connection and can buffer enough accounts it is easy to get all the trackers you want through trading.
I stopped trading not because I reached the end of a blind alley or because I couldn't get the accounts I wanted.
My problem with trading in the end was that I never really felt comfortable with the accounts themselves. If I had a traded account I was stuck with whatever username it came with and for me 'Fuckdiebitch' wasn't a name I wanted people to know me by.
If the account came from an invite then 6 months down the line, when I have happily built up a nice buffer, the account gets banned because the guy who gave me the invite gets caught trading. Then there is the previous owner of the account who decides he wants it back etc.

[Polarbear]

People take the "level" of trackers way too literally, and it really gets ridiculous, to the point of threads in the invite sections where the OP says something like "I have level 4, I need any level 5" wtf is this?!

These "levels" have given trackers some kind of (fake) value, and people think they're in the stock market in here, signing up on "lower levels", buffering them so they gain some value, then trade for the next level and repeat the process... it's sad really.

People forget that these are communities. You can find almost every file everywhere, so why are people trading to get these "high level" trackers? just so they can put a new nice little user bar in their sig, and feel above others (again, just sad).

They don't care for the community (and that's obvious, since they will be using the account of another person, which is extremely bizarre if you're interested in participating in a community), and they continue the stock market game breaking trackers' rules.

Invites are meant to be given for free, to someone you trust and consider will be an asset to the community where you're already a member. Traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.

(oh, and for those who say that every non-trader is against trading because they don't have anything to trade, or they traded in the past and now don't have the need to trade, or trade with another account... well, I will just say that that is a very pathetic way of justifying what you do)

Remember: these are communities. make friends, participate in the forums/irc, follow trackers' rules and you will never have to trade for anything.

good post, kaffeine.


that's the reason why account trader never post in the tracker forum.

if you want to judge a good user on a tracker, look at how many forum posts he made there and not how high his buffer is.

same thing goes for cheater btw.


those users get invites to elite trackers, but not the trader.

[barry6521]

i have some ivites for the new guys but im not sure where to post them?

[fOrUmAs]

i have some ivites for the new guys but im not sure where to post them?

in BitTorrent invite section look up:happy:

[Cheeseman1208]

People take the "level" of trackers way too literally, and it really gets ridiculous, to the point of threads in the invite sections where the OP says something like "I have level 4, I need any level 5" wtf is this?!

These "levels" have given trackers some kind of (fake) value, and people think they're in the stock market in here, signing up on "lower levels", buffering them so they gain some value, then trade for the next level and repeat the process... it's sad really.

People forget that these are communities. You can find almost every file everywhere, so why are people trading to get these "high level" trackers? just so they can put a new nice little user bar in their sig, and feel above others (again, just sad).

They don't care for the community (and that's obvious, since they will be using the account of another person, which is extremely bizarre if you're interested in participating in a community), and they continue the stock market game breaking trackers' rules.

Invites are meant to be given for free, to someone you trust and consider will be an asset to the community where you're already a member. Traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.

(oh, and for those who say that every non-trader is against trading because they don't have anything to trade, or they traded in the past and now don't have the need to trade, or trade with another account... well, I will just say that that is a very pathetic way of justifying what you do)

Remember: these are communities. make friends, participate in the forums/irc, follow trackers' rules and you will never have to trade for anything.

good post, kaffeine.


that's the reason why account trader never post in the tracker forum.

if you want to judge a good user on a tracker, look at how many forum posts he made there and not how high his buffer is.

same thing goes for cheater btw.


those users get invites to elite trackers, but not the trader.
I agree, kaffeine hit the nail on the head.

Great post

[SiNa]

traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.


why do you and everybody else think that all the traders are like that? i have traded but i dont collect the stuff that i dont need. the people you are reffering to does that. doesnt mean if you're trader then you just want to climb the latter now does it?
The main difference is the way you get your trackers

[kaffeine]

traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.


why do you and everybody else think that all the traders are like that? i have traded but i dont collect the stuff that i dont need. the people you are reffering to does that. doesnt mean if you're trader then you just want to climb the latter now does it?
The main difference is the way you get your trackers
As with everything, there are some exceptions, and every generalization is inaccurate, and I apologize for that.

But I ask you this: why trade invites, or even worst, accounts to get access to a tracker? why break the rules and compromise the security of a place you care for so much (or so many say)? why the lack of patience and the need for immediate satisfaction?

The way you get your trackers makes a huge difference.

Many are not trying to climb the latter (i don't like this term, because is directly related to those "levels" again, but anyways..) and many are not collecting trackers.. ok, but then why not try to be part of the communities you're already a member of, why not make some friends there, make people see that you're trustworthy and respectful or trackers' rules, and then every invite, no matter how "high level" it is, will come to you. Not because you're making a nice offer, but because you deserve it and a good friend of yours trusts in you.

Think of it as a group of friends, where you want to join. You first become friends with one of those who is in that other group you want to join, and then he introduces you to his group of friends, because he likes you and he trust you. That's how it is supposed to work imo.

[wheeloftime]

There are traders who collect trackers like pokemon cards, I have seen traders claiming they have 7 FTN accounts, but these are in the minority. The majority of traders are trading to get hard-to-get trackers for there own use.

There is absolutely no reason to believe these people are any less active on these trackers than someone who got the invite from a friend.

As for the security issue, if trading didn't happen I am sure the RIAA are capable of coming here and making friends. Their staff are presumably experts on filesharing so could come here and impress with there input.
They would probably target those with high level tracker userbars and post in their threads. With the money they have they could afford some pretty fast seedboxes which after a while they share with there friends.
Doesn't that sound the sort of person you would share one of your invites with, someone who has let you use their seedbox and asked for nothing in return?
To believe the RIAA or any other agencies are only capable of getting invites to these sites because of a bunch of kids trading invites isn't realistic.

[SiNa]

why do you and everybody else think that all the traders are like that? i have traded but i dont collect the stuff that i dont need. the people you are reffering to does that. doesnt mean if you're trader then you just want to climb the latter now does it?
The main difference is the way you get your trackers
As with everything, there are some exceptions, and every generalization is inaccurate, and I apologize for that.

But I ask you this: why trade invites, or even worst, accounts to get access to a tracker? why break the rules and compromise the security of a place you care for so much (or so many say)? why the need for immediate satisfaction?

The way you get your trackers makes a huge difference.

Many are not trying to climb the latter (i don't like this term, because is directly related to those "levels" again, but anyways..) and many are not collecting trackers.. ok, but then why not try to be part of the communities you're already a member of, why not make some friends there, make people see that you're trustworthy and respectful or trackers' rules, and then every invite, no matter how "high level" it is, will come to you. Not because you're making a nice offer, but because you deserve it and a good friend of yours trusts in you.

actually i think many are like me, they keep the things they need

well in order to gain trust a huge amount of time is required. i just needed the trackers fast, couldnt wait so i traded. i dont see this in a bad way as long as you re like me:happy:
also i dont think i'm causing damage to the tracker just because they dont allow trading. just a normal user like others

now you ask why not make friends inside the tracker?
it doesnt matter where you get your friends! you can make friends here or anywhere else.

look at first i didnt want to get into the trouble of making a good friend AND then gain his trust, becuase as i said, it takes (took:)) time. and when you start like that by trading from the beginning then you may keep on doing it because you're used to it, even though you got a friend that trusts you. But that doesnt mean that i dont accept free invites and that i trade every time

[KFlint]

i don't have anything against trading if it's the only way to gain access to some rare trackers

but i really don't like the idea of trading only for the sake of collecting many accounts of the same trackers, i don't understand this at all, i mean, get a life! ;)

compulsive trading is wrong IMO

[0Ri0N]

if you want to judge a good user on a tracker, look at how many forum posts he made there and not how high his buffer is.

Is this a statement?
I disagree, not everyone have time to participate in forums. The majoraty forum threads from trackers are pure spam and not everybody is interested in participate in threads like "rate this ass", "do you hit it?", "ban the user above u" and so on... A massive participation does not means a quality participation.

If you want judge a good user you should combine several factors: Tracker behavior (h&r, time sharing, fill requests...), interesting threads participation, IRC participation, Donations...

the guys who make their way to elite trackers through forums and IRC are most of them ass kissers...

[Submission]

The best BT user is some guy with no life, who seeds just to 1:1 and leaves, fills requests all day, helps you like a slave, will buff your account for you, will suck cock and give money.

[virtus134]

Just wanted to say 10 pages. Whoo.

Also a lot of traders don't just "collect accounts." Say I have a SCT invite and I want a TT invite.

Now I can:
1. Give my SCT invite away and make someone very happy
2. Then post asking for a TT invite when dozens of other users who have been here longer, contributed and posted more than me, want it and have asked for it
3. And hope.

Or I can:
1. Make a thread trading SCT for TT
2. Get an offer within a few minutes. Trade. And now I would have TT.

Which way is easier and safer? (safer meaning I'm actually going to get an invite, and not just hoping someone will invite me)

[Ænima]

When you sign up for a tracker, you tick the checkbox saying “I agree with rules and agreement” and one of the rule is not to trade invite/account (for most of the tracker)

Trading should be held as moral and honest when without scammers because of the implication of trading invites value-for-value.
To be against traders is to be against the free market. :angry:

1o I don't see ANY morality in breaking rules of something you are feeding upon.

Morality: the way we should live as a society. To be moral is to trade value-for-value, regardless of whether the establishment allows it. This applies to all products produced by one's mind (whether it is a book, a music album, or a tracker invite.)


2o And honesty? Tracker give you invite to invite people, not to trade 'em.

You once again misunderstand me. Why else would if input the phrase "when without scammers" if not to highlight the unbreakably honest transaction between two traders, who consent to trade equally valued invitations. Ratio proofs and Speedtests in giveaways can be forged, after all.
Again, I am not regarding whether the establishment allows such trade agreements.


When you say "free market" You realize that you are comparing internet to real life? And...you realize it's not really free because tracker staff are chasing after you?

squirr3l, as far as I am concerned, the internet is apart of reality. It follows the same economic logic. Mind you, I will explain what I mean:
Freedom is prevented by the establishment, or the tracker staff in this case, but if this trade agreement is done freely without sounding off any alarms, then it is perfectly reasonable to compare it to a free market, in which you produce something and then trade it for another product of equal value.

My analogy is correct. This really isn't too hard to understand. Maybe you should reintroduce yourself to the definition of a free market (laissez-faire capitalism)?

[SgtMajor]

You pays your money and you makes your choice, you have read in this thread what half will think of you, and that the other half couldn't give a shit.

When and if you are looking for a freebie into the more elite sites at some time in the future, then remember your choices that you made earlier on your path will come back to play a major part in who gives you that invite, you either walk in the front door and feel proud that you go there on merit, or you sneak in the back door and hope they never catch you and disable your account. The smaller the base, the easier to trace.

It cannot be stressed enough, respect.

[Zeus]

Morality: the way we should live as a society. To be moral is to trade value-for-value, regardless of whether the establishment allows it. This applies to all products produced by one's mind (whether it is a book, a music album, or a tracker invite.)
What are you talking about? Your definition of morality makes no sense. According to what you've said selling arms to terrorists would be moral as I would be trading value for value without regard to whether it was allowed or not. The morality of a transaction cant be determined in a vaccuum only by reference to its form, it must be done by looking at its substance and its context. I'm not saying trading invites is immoral, just that your argument doesn't add up.

[Ænima]

Morality: the way we should live as a society. To be moral is to trade value-for-value, regardless of whether the establishment allows it. This applies to all products produced by one's mind (whether it is a book, a music album, or a tracker invite.)
What are you talking about? Your definition of morality makes no sense. According to what you've said selling arms to terrorists would be moral as I would be trading value for value without regard to whether it was allowed or not. The morality of a transaction cant be determined in a vaccuum only by reference to its form, it must be done by looking at its substance and its context. I'm not saying trading invites is immoral, just that your argument doesn't add up.
My argument isn't adding up because you are looking at it too closely. I meant to imply that the other factors involved in the transaction are moral. Giving guns to terrorists isn't exactly the right way to live as a society, is it?
Let's keep on topic. Why is trading invites amoral?


You pays your money and you makes your choice, you have read in this thread what half will think of you, and that the other half couldn't give a shit.

I suppose you're right.


When and if you are looking for a freebie into the more elite sites at some time in the future, then remember your choices that you made earlier on your path will come back to play a major part in who gives you that invite, you either walk in the front door and feel proud that you go there on merit, or you sneak in the back door and hope they never catch you and disable your account. The smaller the base, the easier to trace.

I don't care to attain invites from people who hold grudges

[Zeus]

I wont redress the point for the sake of staying on topic


Why is trading invites amoral?
I dont think it is. Given that everyone here doesnt think twice about flaunting the law to download the latest movie, its a bit rich when someone turns around and claims someone is immoral for breaking a trackers rules. It's not something I do myself but I can understand why people trade to get where they need to be. I still havent figured out why people trade for fun though, that just seems pretty sad to me.

At the end of the day though, if you choose to trade you cant really complain when someone chooses not to give you free invites for fear that you will just trade on the account in a months time. Once you've made your bed you have to sleep in it.

I also have to say that in my experience most of the "traders" here seem to be kids who never leave the invites section and make no other contribution in their posts other than "Level 8 for Level6!!! Youre crazy. You must offer more!!!!!!!!!" Im not saying they are all like that but its definitely a pattern, therefore its not really surprising when others dont warm to them.

[Ænima]

Why is trading invites amoral?I dont think it is. Given that everyone here doesnt think twice about flaunting the law to download the latest movie, its a bit rich when someone turns around and claims someone is immoral for breaking a trackers rules.
Trade is such a loose term. Even during giveaways (among anonymous parties) there is a social element of trade.
Every one respects those who give away invites. Every one also ascribes them a multitude of "BT Rep." Is that not trading your invites for social appraisal and other potential compensations? Is that not trading value-for-value?

Following this logic, giveaways should be decried as much as trading invite-for-invite, potentially even more for hiding its true color underneath the pretense of "altruism."

[supper]

I dont think it is. Given that everyone here doesnt think twice about flaunting the law to download the latest movie, its a bit rich when someone turns around and claims someone is immoral for breaking a trackers rules.
Trade is such a loose term. Even during giveaways (among anonymous parties) there is a social element of trade.
Every one respects those who give away invites. Every one also ascribes them a multitude of "BT Rep." Is that not trading your invites for social appraisal and other potential compensations? Is that not trading value-for-value?

Following this logic, giveaways should be decried as much as trading invite-for-invite, potentially even more for hiding its true color underneath the pretense of "altruism."why u just think of giveaways like that why u cant think the person who do those giveaway only he spent alot of time to get some trackers and he wanna make it easly for others why its call help each other thats the point of giveaways

[Zeus]

Why do you ask me to get back on topic and then start talking about value-for-value again. A trade by its very nature involves the exhange of value for value. i dont really get what your point is? I've already said I dont think its immoral and Ive explained why the exchange of value-for-value has little to do with morality. I dont however think that the increasing commoditisation of torrent trackers is a good thing for the bt scene in general.

[Ænima]

Why do you ask me to get back on topic and then start talking about value-for-value again. A trade by its very nature involves the exhange of value for value. i dont really get what your point is? I've already said I dont think its immoral and Ive explained why the exchange of value-for-value has little to do with morality.

Is has much to do with morality. Trading does not imply value-for-value. When you produce something in a socialist or even communist state and want to sell it, you pay for it. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Ring a bell? I was highlighting the fact that it is moral because it is the way economy should be ran.



I dont however think that the increasing commoditisation of torrent trackers is a good thing for the bt scene in general.
Why, because it makes the bt scene more exclusive?

[mrnobody]

Is has much to do with morality. Trading does not imply value-for-value. When you produce something in a socialist or even communist state and want to sell it, you pay for it. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Ring a bell? I was highlighting the fact that it is moral because it is the way economy should be ran.


For your info this ain't socialist or communist state this is internet....and the bounds here aren't the state laws rather the tracker rules.



Morality: the way we should live as a society. To be moral is to trade value-for-value, regardless of whether the establishment allows it. This applies to all products produced by one's mind (whether it is a book, a music album, or a tracker invite.)


go post your morality lesson in a tracker forum which does not allow trading then give me a link to the thread...i will stay back, watch, and enjoy :D



Trade is such a loose term. Even during giveaways (among anonymous parties) there is a social element of trade.
Every one respects those who give away invites. Every one also ascribes them a multitude of "BT Rep." Is that not trading your invites for social appraisal and other potential compensations? Is that not trading value-for-value?

Following this logic, giveaways should be decried as much as trading invite-for-invite, potentially even more for hiding its true color underneath the pretense of "altruism."

what are u talking about? seriously, trying to lurk people with big term?

ever read this thread? http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-invites-90/t-member-reputation-bt-rep-144759


DO NOT demand rep points when giving free invites.i don't know how that's even close to trading.

nuff' said.