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Neil__
07-25-2003, 08:09 PM
How much do they control America?

Neil.

J'Pol
07-25-2003, 08:29 PM
What do you think Neil.

It's your topic, why don't you get it started with some opinions.

kAb
07-25-2003, 08:46 PM
Not really that much at all actually <_<

hobbes
07-25-2003, 09:59 PM
I will let you guys in on a little secret, well actually a big secret about the CIA.

Wait a minute, someones at the door.

http://www.nipissingu.ca/stange/enrich/skeleton.gif

3RA1N1AC
07-25-2003, 11:06 PM
"control" is such an ugly word. the CIA prefers to think of it as "influence." ;)

clocker
07-25-2003, 11:22 PM
Gee Neil, our papers are full of accounts of how hideously inept and ineffectual both the CIA and the FBI are.
You think they control America?
Apparently they have difficulty controlling their bowels.

Neil__
07-25-2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC@26 July 2003 - 00:06
"control" is such an ugly word. the CIA prefers to think of it as "influence." ;)



So 3RA1N1AC are you inflenced by the C.I.A.

I know if they needed to talk to me.
I&#39;d dissapear for a while.
And I couldn&#39;t say that about my own government.

Neil.

3RA1N1AC
07-26-2003, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Neil__@25 July 2003 - 15:24
So 3RA1N1AC are you inflenced by the C.I.A.
i&#39;m not at liberty to answer that question.

echidna
07-26-2003, 08:33 AM
my understanding was that the cia is forbidden to operate within US territory

they have been known to fund raise there though [tax free selling smack to kiddies]

as clocker points out i also doubt that any coherent control is effected over the USA

yes i think that if any other nation ran an organisation like the CIA they&#39;d find themselves becoming part of the axis of evil [or whatever euphemism is in favour at the time]

sharedholder
07-26-2003, 08:41 AM
If the CIA and KGB doesn&#39;t exist we are dead from long time ago... :lol:

W_M_D
07-26-2003, 11:16 AM
Hi,


CIA is a very evil group, who have made sure terrorists have existed and have been funded, by themselves, and the american taxpayer...

The CIA makes sure that the &#39;Global Climate&#39; is in accordance with the Large Corporations Ideas.
This brings us to the council of foreign relations, and the tri-lateral commitee.

Basically, CIA, FBI. Tri-lateral commitee, The UN, NATO, are all inter-related.
They have been deisgned to serve the ideas and policies of a few...

These few can be called the elite....which includes much of the royal family in England (really a German Family, changed name preWW2).
I mean, CIA helped the German scientists come to USA, whilst Germany was being attacked. These are the same scientists that were responsible for killing thousands.

What I cant believe is that Americans just dont mind looking at evidence, rather than listening to CNN, or FOX.

George tennant, the leading CIA man, is very good friends with a Pakistani Intelligence officer in the ISI. This same man, transferred the money to Mohammed atta, the alleged ringleader of the hijackers.
In Pakistan we were told in June that the US was going to attack Afghanistan. This was like 4 months b4 911

Hobbes, I think u got a fairly good idea of what they look like...

Ive got some good documentries, from old CIA agents, who tell what kinda stuff they did...
its called &#39;the secrets of the CIA&#39; help ureself...

THEIR IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IRAQS BAATH PARTY AND THE CIA...Both have killed....
Well, Actually, CIA HAVE KILLED MANY MORE.....

Any1 with sum good facts please join in, and prove me wrong....


Peace,

Weapons_of_Mass_Deception

MagicNakor
07-26-2003, 11:47 AM
Damn that Albert Einstein.

:ninja:

kAb
07-26-2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by W_M_D@26 July 2003 - 03:16
Hi,


CIA is a very evil group, who have made sure terrorists have existed and have been funded, by themselves, and the american taxpayer...

The CIA makes sure that the &#39;Global Climate&#39; is in accordance with the Large Corporations Ideas.
This brings us to the council of foreign relations, and the tri-lateral commitee.

Basically, CIA, FBI. Tri-lateral commitee, The UN, NATO, are all inter-related.
They have been deisgned to serve the ideas and policies of a few...

These few can be called the elite....which includes much of the royal family in England (really a German Family, changed name preWW2).
I mean, CIA helped the German scientists come to USA, whilst Germany was being attacked. These are the same scientists that were responsible for killing thousands.

What I cant believe is that Americans just dont mind looking at evidence, rather than listening to CNN, or FOX.

George tennant, the leading CIA man, is very good friends with a Pakistani Intelligence officer in the ISI. This same man, transferred the money to Mohammed atta, the alleged ringleader of the hijackers.
In Pakistan we were told in June that the US was going to attack Afghanistan. This was like 4 months b4 911

Hobbes, I think u got a fairly good idea of what they look like...

Ive got some good documentries, from old CIA agents, who tell what kinda stuff they did...
its called &#39;the secrets of the CIA&#39; help ureself...

THEIR IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IRAQS BAATH PARTY AND THE CIA...Both have killed....
Well, Actually, CIA HAVE KILLED MANY MORE.....

Any1 with sum good facts please join in, and prove me wrong....


Peace,

Weapons_of_Mass_Deception
yeah the terrible things they did, like preventing world war 3...

edit: btw, the CIA told the prez at the time not to invade vietnam unless they were supported with many more bombs and armory. they announced that vietnam had many more troops than the army thought. the war could&#39;ve been won if the army had listened to the CIA.

J'Pol
07-26-2003, 08:58 PM
So the CIA run black ops.

As do the intelligence agencies throughout the World. This is news to people in some way ?

It really is like a few good men. People do your dirty work for you and make sure your comfortable lifestyle is maintained. Every so often you express your righteous indignation and you are appalled at what is going on.

Then you go back to your comfortable life and your comfortable job and your comfortable car .... etc.

No WMD I don&#39;t get my information from Fox or CNN or any other television channel. I get it from the people who do these things.

Who do you think preserves world order, the United Nations.

Everose
07-26-2003, 11:08 PM
My sentiments exactly, JPaul. Darn good post.

hobbes
07-26-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by W_M_D@26 July 2003 - 12:16





What I cant believe is that Americans just dont mind looking at evidence, rather than listening to CNN, or FOX.

George tennant, the leading CIA man, is very good friends with a Pakistani Intelligence officer in the ISI. This same man, transferred the money to Mohammed atta, the alleged ringleader of the hijackers.
In Pakistan we were told in June that the US was going to attack Afghanistan. This was like 4 months b4 911






Are you telling us that 9/11 and the retaliatory strike in Afganistan was planned by the CIA well in advance. That our "elite few", for reasons which are still unclear, plotted to destroy the WTC and 5,000 American lives?

A plot against America, by America. Why?

clocker
07-27-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by hobbes+26 July 2003 - 17:12--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 26 July 2003 - 17:12)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-W_M_D@26 July 2003 - 12:16





What I cant believe is that Americans just dont mind looking at evidence, rather than listening to CNN, or FOX.

George tennant, the leading CIA man, is very good friends with a Pakistani Intelligence officer in the ISI. This same man, transferred the money to Mohammed atta, the alleged ringleader of the hijackers.
In Pakistan we were told in June that the US was going to attack Afghanistan. This was like 4 months b4 911






Are you telling us that 9/11 and the retaliatory strike in Afganistan was planned by the CIA well in advance. That our "elite few", for reasons which are still unclear, plotted to destroy the WTC and 5,000 American lives?

A plot against America, by America. Why? [/b][/quote]
Hobbes, I&#39;m surprised that you don&#39;t appreciate the gorgeous pretzel-logic of this theory.
If you must ask, you are obviously already too brainwashed to see.

kAb
07-27-2003, 03:23 AM
Why would the CIA organize an attack on the WTC just to blow up afghanistan?

They could easily do it for human rights abuses and the fact that they harbor terrorists anyways. Its to no interest to the U.S. to be at war with Afghanistan... so why would they kill 3,000 people for an excuse?? :blink:

ToraBoraDweller
07-30-2003, 05:23 PM
Intelligence-organizations should gather their intelligence in passive ways and not meddle in other countries&#39; affairs.
For as long as the CIA exists it has broken such &#39;rules&#39;.(Other agencies of other countries just as well)
By actively interfering in other countries they set in motion things of which the consequences cannot be overseen :what you sow you will harvest.

They are not guardians of the nation or of &#39;world peace&#39; :they are merely guardians of a status quo.

(Follow the money &#33;)

J'Pol
07-30-2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by ToraBoraDweller@30 July 2003 - 18:23
Intelligence-organizations should gather their intelligence in passive ways and not meddle in other countries&#39; affairs.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lah, LahLah, LahLah, Lah - skips of into the sunset. The sky a georgeous shade of magenta with hits of pink. Dark low clouds, but not in a foreboding way, if anything comforting, reminding us of Kansas.

Somewhere a bunny rabbit twitches it&#39;s nose and eats a carrot. All the wee ducks fall asleep with mummy duck watching over them. She is happy they are having nice dreams.

Young girls play with skipping ropes. Boy&#39;s have fun swinging on the tyre hanging by a rope from the old tree by the pond. Their hats on backwards.

All is well with the world. But I think I&#39;ll call myself toraboradweller because it sounds interesting and hard. Nob.

j2k4
07-30-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by JPaul+30 July 2003 - 13:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JPaul &#064; 30 July 2003 - 13:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-ToraBoraDweller@30 July 2003 - 18:23
Intelligence-organizations should gather their intelligence in passive ways and not meddle in other countries&#39; affairs.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lah, LahLah, LahLah, Lah - skips of into the sunset. The sky a georgeous shade of magenta with hits of pink. Dark low clouds, but not in a foreboding way, if anything comforting, reminding us of Kansas.

Somewhere a bunny rabbit twitches it&#39;s nose and eats a carrot. All the wee ducks fall asleep with mummy duck watching over them. She is happy they are having nice dreams.

Young girls play with skipping ropes. Boy&#39;s have fun swinging on the tyre hanging by a rope from the old tree by the pond. Their hats on backwards.

All is well with the world. But I think I&#39;ll call myself toraboradweller because it sounds interesting and hard. Nob.[/b][/quote]
Methinks you&#39;ve gotten to the nub, JPaul.

Reality is what we have-hence the term "pie in the sky":

The pie, although savory, is in the sky, where we cannot reach it-and there it shall stay, unattainable, forever.

Well done, sir. ;)

hobbes
07-30-2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by JPaul+30 July 2003 - 19:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JPaul &#064; 30 July 2003 - 19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-ToraBoraDweller@30 July 2003 - 18:23
Intelligence-organizations should gather their intelligence in passive ways and not meddle in other countries&#39; affairs.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lah, LahLah, LahLah, Lah - skips of into the sunset. The sky a georgeous shade of magenta with hits of pink. Dark low clouds, but not in a foreboding way, if anything comforting, reminding us of Kansas.

Somewhere a bunny rabbit twitches it&#39;s nose and eats a carrot. All the wee ducks fall asleep with mummy duck watching over them. She is happy they are having nice dreams.

Young girls play with skipping ropes. Boy&#39;s have fun swinging on the tyre hanging by a rope from the old tree by the pond. Their hats on backwards.

All is well with the world. But I think I&#39;ll call myself toraboradweller because it sounds interesting and hard. Nob.[/b][/quote]
"Mummy duck"?

That is downright creepy. Can you imagine a duck, whos&#39; internal organs have been removed and placed in jars, filled with perfume and wrapped in bandages, swimming about your pond?

Sounds like some surreal world in a song by Beck.

J'Pol
07-30-2003, 11:29 PM
That would be mummified, Bunny Boy

myfiles3000
07-31-2003, 01:22 AM
power is not a new game, it just gets played in different forms. the CIA is practicing an ancient art, and is despised more than the intelligence agencies of other countries not because their actions are intrinsically more reprehensible -- its that the scale of the repurcussions are so enormous.

Having said that, there are long-term trends at play that shouldn&#39;t be ignored, after all the nation-state is a relatively new development, and has changed the way the game is played.

What I&#39;d like to know is this: is the USA today any more powerful compared to its contemporaries than previous superpowers (portugal, spain, france, england), were to theirs? is this just more of the same, or is the USA in control of an unprecedented amount of dominance/power/influence relative their peers?

We could argue all day about the nasty things that CIA has done, there are any number of examples, but if it just happens to be the US&#39;s turn at the head of the table, why not accept the fate of nations, and be thankful we don&#39;t live in a power vacuum? There&#39;s a lot to be said about the stability that arises from a dominant ideology, as far as I&#39;m concerned

now there&#39;s something i never would have considered, let alone conceded, as a younger man....;)

SodiumChloride
07-31-2003, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by myfiles3000@30 July 2003 - 18:22
power is not a new game, it just gets played in different forms. the CIA is practicing an ancient art, and is despised more than the intelligence agencies of other countries not because their actions are intrinsically more reprehensible -- its that the scale of the repurcussions are so enormous.

Having said that, there are long-term trends at play that shouldn&#39;t be ignored, after all the nation-state is a relatively new development, and has changed the way the game is played.

What I&#39;d like to know is this: is the USA today any more powerful compared to its contemporaries than previous superpowers (portugal, spain, france, england), were to theirs? is this just more of the same, or is the USA in control of an unprecedented amount of dominance/power/influence relative their peers?

We could argue all day about the nasty things that CIA has done, there are any number of examples, but if it just happens to be the US&#39;s turn at the head of the table, why not accept the fate of nations, and be thankful we don&#39;t live in a power vacuum? There&#39;s a lot to be said about the stability that arises from a dominant ideology, as far as I&#39;m concerned

now there&#39;s something i never would have considered, let alone conceded, as a younger man....;)
I believe the answer is yes. The current United States has been compared to those four entities at the height of their power and i believe that the power/influence was indeed higher. I&#39;m not sure about the Roman empire though. If you consider GDP as a measure of power, then think about this: At one time within the past 50 years the GDP of the USA was higher than all the other countries&#39; totals combined.

ilw
07-31-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by SodiumChloride@31 July 2003 - 11:24
If you consider GDP as a measure of power, then think about this: At one time within the past 50 years the GDP of the USA was higher than all the other countries&#39; totals combined.
What do u mean by that

MagicNakor
07-31-2003, 12:52 PM
You&#39;re going to have to adjust for general wealth and population of the world if you do that. The Roman Empire, if it were at the height of its power today, would be an elephant to the USA&#39;s flea.

:ninja:

myfiles3000
07-31-2003, 01:13 PM
"The C.i.a., Has controled countries for too long."

Lets not forget that they&#39;re also responsible for keeping the West democratic and capitalist. If black ops is what it takes to keep me and mine out of the research lab of society&#39;s doomed adventures, I&#39;ll have more please.

ToraBoraDweller
07-31-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by JPaul+30 July 2003 - 19:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JPaul @ 30 July 2003 - 19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ToraBoraDweller@30 July 2003 - 18:23
Intelligence-organizations should gather their intelligence in passive ways and not meddle in other countries&#39; affairs.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lah, LahLah, LahLah, Lah - skips of into the sunset. The sky a georgeous shade of magenta with hits of pink. Dark low clouds, but not in a foreboding way, if anything comforting, reminding us of Kansas.

Somewhere a bunny rabbit twitches it&#39;s nose and eats a carrot. All the wee ducks fall asleep with mummy duck watching over them. She is happy they are having nice dreams.

Young girls play with skipping ropes. Boy&#39;s have fun swinging on the tyre hanging by a rope from the old tree by the pond. Their hats on backwards.

All is well with the world. But I think I&#39;ll call myself toraboradweller because it sounds interesting and hard. Nob. [/b][/quote]
No the world is indeed not a rosy place . <_<
But is that a reason to hand it over to criminals and cynics ?

J'Pol
07-31-2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by ToraBoraDweller+31 July 2003 - 20:19--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ToraBoraDweller @ 31 July 2003 - 20:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by JPaul@30 July 2003 - 19:23
<!--QuoteBegin-ToraBoraDweller@30 July 2003 - 18:23
Intelligence-organizations should gather their intelligence in passive ways and not meddle in other countries&#39; affairs.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lah, LahLah, LahLah, Lah - skips of into the sunset. The sky a georgeous shade of magenta with hits of pink. Dark low clouds, but not in a foreboding way, if anything comforting, reminding us of Kansas.

Somewhere a bunny rabbit twitches it&#39;s nose and eats a carrot. All the wee ducks fall asleep with mummy duck watching over them. She is happy they are having nice dreams.

Young girls play with skipping ropes. Boy&#39;s have fun swinging on the tyre hanging by a rope from the old tree by the pond. Their hats on backwards.

All is well with the world. But I think I&#39;ll call myself toraboradweller because it sounds interesting and hard. Nob.
No the world is indeed not a rosy place . <_<
But is that a reason to hand it over to criminals and cynics ? [/b][/quote]
No.

leave no trace
08-04-2003, 06:25 PM
"The C.i.a., Has controled countries for too long."

Lets not forget that they&#39;re also responsible for keeping the West democratic and capitalist. If black ops is what it takes to keep me and mine out of the research lab of society&#39;s doomed adventures, I&#39;ll have more please.

That&#39;s a pretty goddamn pathetic statement.
In fact, I&#39;m not exactly sure how to properly ridicule it.
Ridicule, in this case, is probably not the best approach. CIA might show up at my door willing and ready to play black ops war games with me. After all, the fate of the free western money grubbing world is at stake here&#33;
It&#39;s ironic research labs were mentioned. The CIA would know about that for sure.
I believe that was something they learned from the Nazis; Operation Artichoke.
Sounds funny, but I bet when those "rough boys" got their hands on you, it would be screams, not laughter.
Think it never happened? Don&#39;t know what it is or how it could effect the CIA&#39;s future? Search Google; Operation Artichoke
Or better yet, here&#39;s a link with unrefutable material on this subject.
http://www.frankolsonproject.org/

J'Pol
08-04-2003, 06:35 PM
What does unrefutable mean.

thewizeard
08-04-2003, 06:39 PM
Irrefutable? I better pop off to the lounge.......

J'Pol
08-04-2003, 06:48 PM
No, the chap has a point.

A self serving website, with an obvious agenda, would obviously contain irrefutable proof.

leave no trace
08-04-2003, 07:10 PM
A self serving website, with an obvious agenda, would obviously contain irrefutable proof.

The .org turn you away? Think it was a religious charity? Think you&#39;d need to enter a valid credit card just to read some plain fucking text? And, well, usually an agenda is fairly obvious, that&#39;s why its an agenda. And any obvious agenda worth it&#39;s weight better have some un-ir-un-dis-non-x-0-refutable proof.

Oh well, I guess that self serving obvious 0refutable bastard doesn&#39;t get the support of a few self serving obvious refutable bastards here and there, hey, things are tough all over&#33;

J'Pol
08-04-2003, 07:32 PM
I seldom have the opportunity to decide on someone this early. However with you it is fairly easy.

You are an idiot, in fact you are a rude idiot.

Please take your badly written, dogmatic drivel elsewhere, to people who may be interested.

FearNot
08-04-2003, 07:50 PM
How do you even get a job in the CIA , all these black ops government people you speak of. How did they even get there . I mean even if i wanted to join these secret government people I could not , It makes no sense unless they have a breeding program that raises these guys lol :ph34r: just make little sense

J'Pol
08-04-2003, 07:53 PM
You apply.

leave no trace
08-04-2003, 07:54 PM
Idiot? I prefer mongrel.
Rude? On this occasion, you are right, that one is IRrefutable.
Badly written? Hey, you can read it can&#39;t you?
Dogmatic drivel? I prefer tawdry bombast.
Elsewhere? Point taken.
People who may be more interesting I should hope.

Last post, apologies if I offended you, no need to respond, I&#39;ll not be reading it.

J'Pol
08-04-2003, 07:57 PM
Apology accepted, you seem to be a decent sort of spud. Right sort and all that.

james_bond_rulez
08-04-2003, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Neil__@25 July 2003 - 20:09
How much do they control America?

Neil.
my uncle is in CIA but he doesn&#39;t do shit :D

thewizeard
08-04-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by leave no trace@4 August 2003 - 21:54
Idiot? I prefer mongrel.
Rude? On this occasion, you are right, that one is IRrefutable.
Badly written? Hey, you can read it can&#39;t you?
Dogmatic drivel? I prefer tawdry bombast.
Elsewhere? Point taken.
People who may be more interesting I should hope.

Last post, apologies if I offended you, no need to respond, I&#39;ll not be reading it.
You&#39;re learning &#39;leave no trace&#39; you just need a little &#39;tolerance Eva&#39;

myfiles3000
08-05-2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by leave no trace@4 August 2003 - 19:25

"The C.i.a., Has controled countries for too long."

Lets not forget that they&#39;re also responsible for keeping the West democratic and capitalist. If black ops is what it takes to keep me and mine out of the research lab of society&#39;s doomed adventures, I&#39;ll have more please.

That&#39;s a pretty goddamn pathetic statement.
In fact, I&#39;m not exactly sure how to properly ridicule it.
leavenotrace, first off you might want to back off on the trashtalking, especially when responding to my posts. you&#39;re not really serving any useful purpose by explicitly &#39;ridiculing&#39; a post (even though you&#39;ve not even come close to it here)...ladies and gentlemen of good upbringing know that ideas are to be evaluated on their intrinsic worth, and leave petty personal squabbles masquerading as debate to the less enlightened in society.

anyway, i stand by what i said. the cold war was all about the clash of 2 ideologies vying for control of the world, and i&#39;m damn glad the communists lost. failure to acknowledge this simple fact will get you nowhere with right-thinking folk. the cia does bad things, this doesn&#39;t not necessarily make the cia bad.

So, of course there have been victims of american imperialism, there most certainly have been. A careful reader might well have picked up on my allusion to this rather obvious point in the "me and mine" statement, implying that I have not personally suffered negatively (in any obvious and tangible way) from the cia&#39;s black ops. People of south-east asia, the middle east and latin america are likely to have a less agreeable experience.

I have not heard of operation artichoke, thanks to you it&#39;s been added to my list of things to look into if and when i have time. But the overwhelming odds are that whatever the story is about, it won&#39;t have any effect on my stance -- my point is a vast, sweeping, acutely insightful summary of the nature of power politics. Whatever you&#39;re story is about, it is almost certainly anecdotal in nature, and therefore of no meaningful relevance. Get back to me after taking a peak at something along the lines of the leviathan.

j2k4
08-13-2003, 04:51 AM
I was in CIA just long enough to learn how to control myself and those in close proximity (say, no more than arms-length?); I never wanted to dominate entire countries, just my own little milieu-I must say, it works very nicely.

Myfiles, JPaul: does this character remind you of anybody?