New Mobo

[bigdawgfoxx]

Ok...i found a good deal..right now im runnin on a Celeron at 566....I found a dea l with a mobo that has 3! instead of two Dimms and they hold PC100..which is good becuase i already have 512MB worth of that..i dont kare if the other crap is faster..i like it lol and it has 3 PCI..which is all i need and it comes with a Celeron at 2.4 Ghz...which ISNT the best by far i know..but its 2000 more mhz then i got now...so im thinking it will be good right? lol i would get P4 But id also have to buy lots of new Ram and crap...the only thing im worried about is...will my stuff be compatible? will my Pci Geforce 4 my Soublaster Pci 64 and my ethernet card work with the new mobo? i mean is it usually compatible? Ide controlers? CD drive controllers...fans? will it all still work or what?

[Livy]

all your pci components will work, ide controllers hsould be onbaord so no probs there.

another idea would be a athlon system, u could get a new mobo and an athlon processor, u can get boards that support both ddr and sdram, but not at the same time, so you could make it a 2 step upgrade, proccesor and boartd, then ram later.

also im buyin an asus m/board athlon 2400xp 512mb ddr, new case, cables & keyboards etc for £200 so it may be cheaper than you think to get a p4 system.
im using all my old drives

[bigdawgfoxx]

Sorry lol im not going for athlon...i know its good and stuff...but its like nike...gotta have the best name haha and i can get a 2.4Ghz for 90 bux

[Livy]

athlon are more efficent, and half the price, just checked on ebuyer and an thalon 2400 is half the proce of a p4 2.4

and the rice i said was lao for 512mb ddr ram cables keyboard motherboard and case

[Enigma2003]

i know this is off the subject but Livy, where are you buying your equipment? ebuyer?

I need to buy a m/b, processor, 512MB RAM but not sure where to go.
i had a look on www.novatech.co.uk and they were advertising a bundle. it was an AMD athlon XP 2400, 512MB of 333DDR Ram, came with heatsink and fan and m/b which has onboard sound, lan and 4 USB ports for £170.

Any good?

[bigdawgfoxx]

Hey livy...your reading my topic wrong..im getting a CELERON...not a P4...and the AMD XPs are more exspensive..by far...and i would rather have a CELERON! cuz its intel baby! lol thanx for the advice

[Livy]

the stuff im getting is from ebuyer, dabs and a local shop.
im getting ram, cpu cooler and cables and keyboard from ebuyer.
and motherboard and proccesor from dabs.
and the case form a local shop

also that bundle sounds pretty good, try find out what the board is and see if its got good reviews, and a crap board will usually mean a crap system

[ilw]

While intel make the best chips (P4 is the fastest) they also make just about the shittest chips (Celerons), AMD just holds the middle ground.

[kooky_kramer]

just saying i fully agree with ilw. Comparing celerons with athlons is wrong, as they are aiming at a different market. Athlon may not be the best but definately better than a celeron.

[Somebody1234]

If you want to compare CPUs with the Celeron, look at the Duron. I don't recommend you get either one. Not enough cache ram.

The Athlon is the best bet right now unless you want to spend a fortune and go for the latest 3,200s. If you think the Athlon XP 2400+ is too expensive then get a 2000+ or 2200+. You will have a better performing mahine if you do so.

[bigdawgfoxx]

Is a celeron better then a duron? and your forgetting one pricey thing here...ive spent like 120 bux on ram...if i get a P4 or Athlon XP i have to but new ram also...thats why im getting a high speed....celeron...dont really go together but o well lol

[ilw]

as livy pointed out earlier u can get xp motherboards which support sdram. so u wouldn't have to change ram yet

[Livy]

as i said u can get a athlon board that supports both sdram and ddr ram, so you could change to ddr ram later as an upgrade,

p.s. it does not support both at the same time, its either one or the other

edit here is one such board http://www.ecs.com.tw/products/pd_spec.asp...?product_id=192 (http://www.ecs.com.tw/products/pd_spec.asp?product_id=192)

[bigdawgfoxx]

Bundle (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=588557&Sku=MBM-PM10-C2400&CatId=191) Ok theres the thing...is that motherboard good decent or horrible?? i know its not exspandable..but i only have 2 dimms right now...does neone know of a similar bundle with 3 dimms? greatly appreciative! oh and would a AthlonXp1600 run faster then a Celeron at 2.4 Ghz?

[bigdawgfoxx]

I looked at some bundles...and like i can get an AMD athlon XP 2200 that supports sdram and all for 130...but i still dont want an amd..and its clock is 1.8 compared to 2.4...althought it has like 3 times the L2 chache....how much of a role does the L2 Cache actually play?

[Livy]

quite alot, and dont look at the bus speeds, an amd i 2200 is probably about the same as a 2.4 clereon maybe better

[ilw]

theres a review at toms hw on the celeron 2ghz and in their benchmarks the xp1600 is roughly its equal (better in some worse in others) and the 1800xp beats it or equals it in everything.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20021016/index.html

Edit: Even overclocked to 3Ghz (in article) it still sometimes loses to the xp1600

[Livy]

to your question about an athlon board that supports both sdram and ddr, i havent seen any that have more than 2 slot of each type of ram

[bigdawgfoxx]

I wasnt comparing the 2200 with the 2.0Ghz..i was comparing the 1600 to the celeron at 2.4 ghz..and the celeron would win lol i just want to know if thats a good motherboard

[Livy]

no wonder it would win? theres a big difference in speed,

edit: for the price of a celeron 2.4ghz you could get a athlon xp 2500
compare price for price

edit: both above are retail versions, also u can get a 2600 non retail for same price.

[bigdawgfoxx]

I'm buying it with a mobo and celeron at 2.4 Ghz for 90bux!!!!! thats much cheaper then and AMD athlon 2500 with a mobo..much cheaper..and i dont like amd much

[Somebody1234]

Ok then, get your celeron then. You seem to be set on that anyway. No matter how much we tell you you don't seem to understand that L2 cache is very important in terms of performance.

[bigdawgfoxx]

I know its VERY important...i asked up there how important and noone said..but i know it is...and the celeron i can EASILY overclock to 3Ghz...which will beat an AMD..thanx

[ilw]

mate u give brand loyalty a whole new dimension. :)
Just bear in mind that just because someone else managed to overclock a celeron to 3Ghz doesn't mean that u will definitely be able to, plus u'll probably have to shell out more for the cooling.

On a minor thing about the l2 cache, i read somewhere that future intels after the p4 prescott are gonna have less not more cache, apparently they're going back to 256k i think its got something to do with maximising speed and yield as well as lowering heat production.

[bigdawgfoxx]

It works perfect with 512ks of cache...why the HELL would they lower it and not have as much speed? that makes no since...lol thanx..i do love intel :D and like they added 600Mhz NO PROBLEM with no exstra cooling..and it worked fine :D

[bigdawgfoxx]

Also..can a Celeron come with the new intel chipset? the 845...i dont think so...??

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@31 July 2003 - 01:16
Also..can a Celeron come with the new intel chipset? the 845...i dont think so...??
Why would you want to.....? :blink:

[bigdawgfoxx]

Why would i NOT want the new chipset?? itsnt it good...it comes with like via..is that good or what? check the mobo ...also where can i find reports and stuff??

[shadow master]

all aside make sure you reinstall your OS after the cpu and mobo swap.

[bigdawgfoxx]

haha ok...i dont know how im gona back up 50GBs of media though... :unsure:

[ilw]

u'll pay a premium for a motherboard that has the latest chipset and your chip won't use much of the chipsets potential

[bigdawgfoxx]

ok ill just get the celeron at 2.4 and the DFI mobo and not worry bout it i guess

[Livy]

if u get partition magic you will be able to slipt your drive into 2 partitions, and put all your data on the second and you can format the 1st drive. and everything will stil be there. watch hough as win9x boot disks dont recoqnise ntfs partions if u have xp

[bigdawgfoxx]

I dont want two partitions really...can i partition it as 2 drives then reinstall windows on one of them...then make it one partition again with all my stuff? or will i have to keep it in 2 partitions..? are there any other advantages to 2 partitions?

[lynx]

Keep stuff that doesn't change much on 1 partition, use the other for data that changes a lot.

Makes defragmenting a lot easier, you are also less likely to fill your system partition (which is a BAD thing to do).

[Livy]

the good thing baout the 2 partitions is that if u ever hae to reinstall again then u will still have everything, or if windows fucks up, you can still get to your data, ive got it like that on my laptop. and my other pc i have 2 drive, ones just a 4gig which is for windows and system, and 80gig for data etc.

[bigdawgfoxx]

Ok so would i JUST keep windows on one partition? or like program files also??

[ilw]

The way i set up mine is to put program files on the same as windows, because if u wipe windows u'll have to reinstall those programs anyway so they might as well be deleted with windows.
Its works well as long as u keep all the installers for all the programs u download on the other drive (the non system one).

[_John_Lennon_]

Also a word of advice from personal experience.

I dont know if you built the computer you are currently using yourself, but if you did indeed by it OEM, like from DELL, HP, Compaq etc, I would take note of my expereince.

Anyway, i had an HP, with a 1.3 Celeron, socket 370 I believe, and I wanted to upgrade to something faster. Well, the fastest chip for the socket 370 motherboard was a celeron 1.7, and that wasnt worth the upgrade for me. So, I bought a new motherboard and 2.2 Celeron (it was only 109 at the time, while as the 2.2 Pentium was 260 dollars, what a deal huh&#33;&#33; <_< ) Anyway, I swapped out mobo&#39;s, popped in the new chip, and it booted, but it wouldnt boot to windows&#33;&#33; After several calls to tech support one of the techs informed me that if you do indeed change too much with your computer, *installing more ram is okay, adding a ethernet card is fine, even a new video card as well* But if you do things like swapping out mobo&#39;s, for new processors, there is a very good chance that you will have changed too much, and you wont be able to boot from that OS install with your new setup.

But you probably wont run into that problem if you built your current computer, as I did mind and it worked out fine when i reinstalled.


-----------------------------

Now, onto the upgrade your making, a few things, seeing as how i was just recently shopping around, purcahsed a new mobo, processor, case, err, some LED&#39;s new HD, and a new CD Burner, anyway.

1. The power of the 2.4 celerons (or all celerons for that matter). - Now, first of all, I believe i can be a voice of experience here, seeing as how i am using a 2.2 celly right now anyway. The Celerons, are the economical line, they put up the big numbers, while sacfaricing elsewhere. My 2.2 celly (and I think your 2.4 that you are looking at, Both have a 128K L2 cache. As opposed to the P4&#39;s, Which have a 512K if im not mistaken. Now, how do these celerons compare to other chips? Well, i have run some benchmarks against my friend&#39;s comps, using PC mark, and 3DMark 2001, with other people with similar specs, except for processor. In several tests, I have found that my 2.2 Celeron is hughly out performed by a 2.2 p4 As expected of course, but I also found that I was out performed by processor&#39;s as low in clock speeds as that of a AMD 1700XP+

Now, with that said, im not bashing the 1700XP+ I love it, and its a great value. The celerons however, are good, for well, Pretty much text searching.... lol. Serious, I tested my setup with the 2.2 Celeron against my file/print server that is using a 1700XP+, and the server beat the scores on my celeron on nearly all the tests, except that up Text searching.... (in PcMark 2002).

Next, I ran some price grabber searches and you can get a Celeron 2.4 Ghz chip for about 92 dollars, a P4 2.4 GHz for about 160, and a Althon 2400XP+ For 86 Dollars, and the 2400XP has a 256K L2 Cache. Now, if you dont already know about Athlon, the 2400 is a rating, that they have tested it and its speed is comparable to intel processors at 2400Mhz.

With that said, Here are the scenarios I see you going with, and what I would suggest.

1. You get the Celeron 2.4 Ghz. 92 Bucks. IF YOU DO, The only way to make this investment worthwhile is to overclock it. If you dont know about overclocking, I can go into that more.

* 2. Buy A 2400XP for 86 Bucks, and an AMD motherboard, of course. The 2400XP will BLOW AWAY, the Celeron 2.4 Ghz chip, for less than the Celeron, unless you heavily overclock the celeron, to around the 3Ghz+ area, where that much speed makes up for the smaller Cache.

3. (My Suggestion) (and what I did) Buy a 2500XP+ . the 2500 and above chips from AMD are on the Barton core. A different, newer, and better core. Now, the main difference with the 2500 Bucks (91 bucks, with fan and heatsink, as all of these are.) is that with this new core, the chips can acheive better performace, at lower clock speeds. The 2400XP+ on the old core comes in at 2Ghz, while the 2500 comes in at 1.83 I believe. Now, once you get the 2500, and a good overclocking motherboard, u can overclock the 2500 to speeds of up to 2.2Ghz. (Some people have went up to 2.5Ghz, but you would probably need better cooling, and a really good board) At 2.2Ghz, it is rated and will even register as an AMD 3200XP+ which means it would be comparable to the Interl P4 3.2Ghz, on many tests. (dont debate with me on this guys, I know about the variants)


Well yeah, so, if you want, just tell us your price limit, and we can help u, I cant stand to see people get ripped off on celerons anymore, and im dumping this one off on someone soon.

EDIT: I know some of these things have been stated already, and one more thing to address.

You claim that you have a motherboard and a 2.4 Cleron for about 90 bucks, well, I am pretty sure that the motherboard that is in that package, DOES NOT HAVE OVERCLOCKING CAPABILITIES.

I made the exact same mistake, I bought a cheap Shuttle mobo, and the 2.2Cleron, wanting to overclock it, and when i tried to, turns out ALL the sets, (Multipler, power setts, and FSB, were all locked in my Bios.)

Which means, you get what you pay for, and to get overclocking capabilites, and good ones, u gotta shell out the few bucks for a higher up motherboard.





Also, could u give us link to the motherboard? I would like to check it out.

[bigdawgfoxx]

Link To Mobo (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=588557&Sku=MBM-PM10-C2400) Hey theres the link...thanx for all the help...i WAS wanting to over clock it to around 2.8 or 3 ish.....but if that mobo doesnt support it then forget that..i dont really want an AMD though...im just into intel...and AMD is like last resort for me..even if it does outperform my price range is probally about 120ish Link to AMD mobo.. (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=588141&Sku=MBM-AK32E-2200&CatId=188) im thinking this would be the best AMD deal...but i dont like amd that much lol...and i need the SDRAM slots..

[_John_Lennon_]

Hmm, well, alot of those combos are excellant deals, but trust me, the only reason they acheive that is by selling you bottom of the line, cheap motherboards.

Also, that rebate expires today, and BTW, it does not include a fan, so you will have to pay for that, because your FAN from your old processor, will neither fit that 2.4, nor will it effectively cool it.

[bigdawgfoxx]

Those mobos are shit? they look good to me..the soyo and shuttle...like 5PCI and stuff...they look nice :unsure: newayz..what ARE some good mobos??and is it just better to buy the mobo and board separate?? are the amd boards nebetter?? thanx alot&#33; youve giving me alot of good info

[Dalegas]

Originally posted by Enigma2003@29 July 2003 - 23:54
i know this is off the subject but Livy, where are you buying your equipment? ebuyer?

I need to buy a m/b, processor, 512MB RAM but not sure where to go.
i had a look on www.novatech.co.uk and they were advertising a bundle.&nbsp; it was an AMD athlon XP 2400, 512MB of 333DDR Ram, came with heatsink and fan and m/b which has onboard sound, lan and 4 USB ports for £170.

Any good?
don&#39;t start with fanaticsm...
athlon is good, but cheap.. and why is it cheap because if athlon costed the same as intel, everyone would be on intel. Simple.

If intel was cheaper...... You&#39;d but intel.
Nuff said.


And after all, intel has way more experiencie... If you don&#39;t believe me..just look at a processor.... Intel&#39;s are artistic, better desingned... athlon, not.


EDIT= Buy an Intel 865 PERL ... with SATA HD support .. data transfer speed up to 1 GB/Sec. That&#39;s the one I have.-

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by Dalegas@31 July 2003 - 18:05
And after all, intel has way more experiencie... If you don&#39;t believe me..just look at a processor.... Intel&#39;s are artistic, better desingned... athlon, not.


EDIT= Buy an Intel 865 PERL ... with SATA HD support .. data transfer speed up to 1 GB/Sec. That&#39;s the one I have.-
Artistic.... Blowing enough smoke there?

Serious, dont start with fanatisism either, and of course we would buy Intel&#39;s if they were cheaper, but the athlons are cheaper, for less, with highly comparable benchmarks..... Sure, if you want the fastest system, then of course, your going to buy the new P4 3.2 Ghz on a 800Mhz board, turn on HT, and brag about it, but dont put AMD&#39;s down just because they cost less, After all, I dont have unlimited money, and im looking for the best value, and that usually is AMD.

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@31 July 2003 - 17:46
Those mobos are shit? they look good to me..the soyo and shuttle...like 5PCI and stuff...they look nice :unsure: newayz..what ARE some good mobos??and is it just better to buy the mobo and board separate?? are the amd boards nebetter?? thanx alot&#33; youve giving me alot of good info
Well, every company has good borads, the top of the line that you have loyalists for, and they have the lower line boards, which new people buy on part of the loyalists, but they are highly different boards.

Im not an Intel expert anymore, so I dont know the go to overclocking boards that everyone uses, only when it comes to the AMD side am i more knowledgable at that.

And btw, doesnt your mobo only have 2 PCI anyway? It wouldnt be that big of a deal to me, im not using any PCI slots in mine at the momment and you might be.

And btw, what is your price limit, and where do you live?

[bigdawgfoxx]

I live in texas and my price limit is like 130ish..i got 4 pci lol

[_John_Lennon_]

130, ouch, Umm, I will look around for you, but I think, stricly because of the constraints of that nearly impossible budget, and because of the big upgrade you will be making the 2.4 will be the best set up for you.

Sigh, im hardly going to sleep tonight, serious, I hate giving advice for people to buy Celeron&#39;s, there such crap.

Ima look around, tell you if i see anything, but for 130, you would end up spending a minimum 40 on the mobo, Hmmm, brb.


BTW: The motherboard says its MicroAtX, I hope it fits your case, but i suppose you could always just drill some holes and put the spacers in there.....

[_John_Lennon_]

Okay, lets see how this works out.

ChainTech Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduct.asp?description=13-152-021&depa=1) = 44 Dollars

XP2400+ (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduct.asp?description=19-103-336&depa=1) =86 Dollars

= 130 Dollars&#33; HAHA&#33; And free shipping on both of them, I rule&#33;, (well, newegg does really.)


Okay, the motheroard fully support the processor with the 200/266 FSB, it has 5 PCI slots, and a AGP slot as well.

And the 2400XP would blow away that Celeron, for less money as well.

Err btw, you have a PCI Internet card right? Like if you use dailup you have a modem, and if you have broadband, you have a Networking card right? <_<

[_John_Lennon_]

And btw, I looked at the details etc at tiget direct, and a few figures for you.

Mobo+processor = 129.98
SHIPPING.. = 011.98

Thats 140, 120 after the rebate, but that rebate expires tonight btw.

[bigdawgfoxx]

yeahh i use an ethernet card for dsl..but its 200 a month all of the sudden..so my parents are taking it away...but yeah newegg seems kool...never been there lol i should check it out...i still dont know about AMD...i mean im just a name brand kinda guy..like BIG TIME lol

[bigdawgfoxx]

I need a mobo that has Sdram capabilities...PC100...thanx

[bigdawgfoxx]

oh and by the way..id rather spend 14 more bux and get the 2500XP with twice the L2 Cache lol...

[Shiranai_Baka]

Man, you either like to help people and start topics or you just want to get your posts # up lol.. well get the ASUS a7n8x mobo.. its pretty good... i guess

[bigdawgfoxx]

haha umm i love helping people and getting helped...i dont care about post lol

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@31 July 2003 - 20:47
I need a mobo that has Sdram capabilities...PC100...thanx
Oh fck, I thought your sig said PC2100.

Damn, okay, well, that throws things out of wack, but here is a different combo.

AMD 2200XP + (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduct.asp?description=19-103-334&depa=1) = 80 bucks

MSI Mobo. (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduct.asp?description=13-130-035&depa=1) 45 + 5 shipping = 50 Bucks.

And that Motherboard does have some overclocking features, but its just FSB changing I believe, and in testing it can go up to 141-145 and still be stable in windows.

Well, thats 130, and I have some benchmarking for you on processors.



CPU Test Chart, 2002 (http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/cpu_charts-32.html)

Okay, and with the chart, although it doesnt include the 2.4 Celeron, its too recent, so lets crunch some numbers here, The Northwood 2Ghz Celeron is about 30 points below on average than the Northwood 2Ghz P4, just like the 1.7 Celeron, ran 30 points less than the 1700XP (although different cores).

So you can figure out where the 2.4 would probably fit in.

[bigdawgfoxx]

that board only supports up to 1800 lol..i can do the research..but thanx for all of your help

[_John_Lennon_]

ugh, fuck, i hate low end boards.

[mogadishu]

You should seriously consider getting a bet motherboard. it will save you money in the future. i.e - not having to update it later, will last longer, better memory etc. etc.

[adamp2p]

Dude, are you kidding me?

Shine the celeron, dude&#33;

Sorry about the super long post. Maybe we need a pinned about L2 cache.

"Let&#39;s start with the basics. In the computer world, cache is a place where stuff is processed or reserved separately from other processes.

A Web browser cache is a store of images from Web pages that is kept so they don&#39;t have to be downloaded each time a visitor returns to a page.

A disk cache is an area of the hard drive, which is reserved to process data. It&#39;s often used when a computer runs out of main memory.

Memory cache is a kind of memory made of high-speed static RAM or SRAM instead of the slower and cheaper dynamic RAM or DRAM, which most of us usually just refer to as RAM or random access memory.

Memory caching is used because many programs use the same data over and over again. Cache is where instructions that are reused are kept by the microprocessor. By keeping frequently used information in SRAM, the computer avoids accessing the slower main memory (DRAM).

Where you hear people refer to a computer&#39;s cache, it usual means they are referring to Level 2 or L2 cache. It is cache memory that is outside the processor chip.
Some memory caches are built into the architecture of microprocessor chips. The 486 chip, for example, contains 8K of memory cache, and the Pentium has a 16K of cache. Those internal caches are often called Level 1 or L1 caches.

The Celeron chip is a cheaper chip because it has 128K of L2 cache built into the chip. The Pentium II and Pentium III cache is 512K in size and is external to the chip itself.

The Pentium Pro, however, has an L2 cache on the same chip as the microprocessor.

Data is transmitted from the processor chip into main memory through the L2 cache. This stops a data bottleneck. L2 cache that&#39;s 256K in size can handle the cache functionality for up to 64Mb of DRAM. 512K of L2 cache handle caching for up to 128Mb of RAM."


So basically, larger cache size means that your processor has to go to memory less. Memory is multitudes slower than cache.

Definately don&#39;t get ANOTHER celery chip...AMD is bang for buck. Period.

See if you can afford the Barton line that is dual channel compatible with 333 or 400 fsb.

[ilw]

i think bigdawg&#39;s got his heart set on a celeron ;)

[gaz_k]

isn&#39;t MOBO Music of Black Origin?

the racist music awards where black people frown upon whites for copying Their origins.

imagine the mayhem if there was a white only music awards.

[bigdawgfoxx]

The AMD 2500+barton seems nice for only 94 bux...lol 512kb of cache...thats so much better then the celeron...its just about the name to me...but because of this post i think i might go amd....unless i buy a new computer ;) thanx A LOT guys :D

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@1 August 2003 - 08:54
The AMD 2500+barton seems nice for only 94 bux...lol 512kb of cache...thats so much better then the celeron...its just about the name to me...but because of this post i think i might go amd....unless i buy a new computer ;) thanx A LOT guys :D
np :)

[Somebody1234]

i think i might go amd....unless i buy a new computer
You could also get a new computer with an AMD barton. :P

[bigdawgfoxx]

yeah but if i get a new comp its gona be dell or im gona build it...lol it will have INTEL

[Lamsey]

The boy likes wasting money. Leave him to it.

[truplaya4jew]

lol so are u gona get the celeron or the AMD?

[bigdawgfoxx]

still not sure jason...i hope ya fixed up ur face haha

[lynx]

If that&#39;s the retail version of the 2500+ Barton I think you get the cooler with it too, that will save you a few bucks. Had you even thought about the cooler ?

[Lamsey]

You should also install a new chassis fan if you&#39;re going to be running with a faster processor.

[bigdawgfoxx]

I dont even have a chassis fan...but i can cut my case i guess lol...i dont know what tool i would use though

[lynx]

You can get a chassis fan that plugs into one of the pci slots if there isn&#39;t a proper place to fit one.

[bigdawgfoxx]

ohh aight..i got one open pci lol...that will prob help my gcard also :D