What.Cd's Lack of Seeders

[Ronnie Coleman]

Since the moment I joined What.Cd I noticed there are very little number of seeders. With OiNK's death I thought it will be strong, fast, reliable community with a lot of seeders and leechers.

Being a member for a few months now (almost from the tracker's opening...), situation is still the same. I'll not bother public with screenshots, but there are just a few torrents that has good speed and overall seeders/leechers ratio.

So... What is happening?

P.S. I would like to see neat discussion, not arguing which music tracker is better. Also, please avoid comparison with other trackers as much as you can. Thank you.

[aaatoel]

There are no seeders cause there are no leechers! Noone seems to download so everyone is trying to upload as much as they can and they reach a point when they can't support thier own uploads... I think this is a major problem!

[1000possibleclaws]

i agree, there's no incentive to download when we see so many accounts getting deleted for bad ratio. those 'leechers' are the ones keeping the site alive, with so many ratio fucking crazy ex oinkers that seed OVER 1:1. (probably like 10:1) that just screws up the rest of us who dont have super fast connections

[x34]

Ya i need more leechers. I grabbed a lot of LOSSLESS there the
last few days and cant leechers to seed back to :/

Its a pain in the ass cuz my ratio is falling low :(

Im just gomma rip some stuff myself
make up for it :D

[aaatoel]

Yes, the only way to succeed is to upload your own stuff and fill requests!

[Horatiu]

Or for them to give out 10 GB upload :naughty:

[fOrUmAs]

i dont download much from both whatcd or waffles since i upload most of time there.

i would say there is not that lack of seeders its lack of leechers atm..

but when i download something there are always enough leecher to seedback :D

[fstokebanget]

well this is a common problem for us all

good to you Forumas, you have could seed back to ratio 1 each time you download :)

[RedLeb]

The problem lies a little deeper - most members were on OiNK and have shared there stuff there and now posting it again to the same public just brings an overload which no one really wants!

[Ronnie Coleman]

@RedLeb: Hm, very interesting explanation. Seems very logical and correct.

[1000possibleclaws]

alot of people dont understand that seeding over 1:1 isnt helpful in this kind of situation. with no gifted upload or bonus system, to keep the site healthy everyone must seed 1:1, not greater. the people with seedboxes or really fast upload will seed the torrent you downloaded 10 times while you've seeded .5 times. It just fucks over the rest of us. then they also think they're a great help to the community with a ratio of 200 and 25 gb uploaded.. I've only passed 1:1 on 3 torrents, and i've been seeding over 30 for the past month and a bit.

please stop your torrent after you pass 1:1, unless there's a lack of seeders

[chicus]

Hum I think that they just make good ratios with windows or mac apps, and then hit n run on music torrents.

[1000possibleclaws]

Hum I think that they just make good ratios with windows or mac apps, and then hit n run on music torrents.

actually this makes sense... i never thought about it that way.

[slimdogp]

Its all about the hit and runs. Take this torrent for instance..

Lil Wayne - The Mixtape (Mixed By DJ Medi Med) [2008/MP3/195kbps/Scene] (http://what.cd/details.php?id=149944&hit=1)

This was a scene release torrent that was pretty popular on most sites and spread fairly well. It got 9 snatches on what.cd, now there are zero seeders. Now.. did every user have < 1.0 ratio? No, of course not.. a few probably had good ratios on the torrent, and the rest hit n ran.

The crazy thing is that this torrent is only TWO DAYS OLD! On Oink you would probably have had at least an 80% retention rate after two days. Plus people would have been downloading the album from elsewhere and trying to seed it on Oink to make ratio.

I was a member when they handed out 10GB upload credit, so my ratio isn't really a problem. I try to snatch stuff whenever I need anything.. but that isn't that often. I have maybe 20 albums downloaded since the site opened. That being said, I am still seeding EVERYTHING I'VE EVER GOTTEN FROM THERE.

I have albums from as far back as 11/14/07 seeding. In order for a site to achieve like oink or bitmetv with good speeds, LONG torrent lives, people have to make a commitment not to do the bare minimum.

Oh I've reached 1.0? I'm gone...
Oh its been 3 days without a snatcher? Well that alleviates me from being a hit n runner.. I'm gone..
Oh I have 10GB buffer from when they gave it out? I'll seed for 24hours then I'm gone..

Members need to think of the health of the torrents, regardless of their personal statistics. If/when we can get 20,000 people doing that in unison, what.cd may start to remind you more and more of oink..

slim-

P.S. I hopped on and am seeding that lil wayne if anyone needs it :)

[Grind$oFine]

I agree with a lot of the things people said in this thread so far.

Multiple things are causing this.

1.) People upload as much music as they possibly can, a lot of old releases that many people snatched on OiNK already.

2.) Upload credit gifts/freeleech, and other times that have given people large buffers have given people really little reason to seed. On OiNK I seeded everything I downloaded for WEEKS before deleting it. My overall ratio was ~2. Most people seeded things for a long time, and their ratios remained ~1 to 2.5ish. Since the beginning users were given 10GB of upload credit. When you have 10 extra GB of upload credit, what reason do you have to seed for months?

So now people who snatched the torrent aren't seeding because they don't need to. The uploader may not be seeding anymore because it's been snatched already, they shouldn't have to seed it, it wasn't their personal rip and they probably care slightly less, and they also don't really need the upload credit anymore either.

So now we have this situation, new people come in, and they don't want to download because they're worried about their ratio. And they should be worried about it, but it's that mentality that is causing the problem in the first place.

AND in result, the seeders that stuck around stop seeding because no one is downloading.

It's a terrible cycle, and it seems whatcd needs to do something to sort it out, because it really could take some time for it to sort itself out. It grew too much too fast, and you have to be really careful with that.

[kostnkost]

I would be downloading if they didn't boot me like everyone else.

O' Well I like Waffles anyways.

[ScreaminJay]

Well, OiNK had 180k users... it's only normal it had more snatches and seeds.

However, I still had the same problem with some of my uploads there. They'd get 1-2 snatches and then get deleted for inactivity. Even while I was still seeding them, they were innactive for too long according to their rules that requested something like one snatch every 45 days I think.

Give it time, it will need a way larger userbase if it's gonna support as many torrents as OiNK. If there is 100k torrents for 35k members... it's certain some of them won't be snatched much.

[1000possibleclaws]

why do you guys think waffles and what are cutting their users down by so much? is it their servers load, cause i cant imagine the situation getting better if the users keep getting disabled.. it just puts more weight on existing users to keep torrents alive

[fOrUmAs]

i think when they set up that new gazelle code they will im sure do some major changes at site again,and also they will maybe change rules again abouth how many hours they need to seed and all that..untill that we have to live in that pigy system :P

[1000possibleclaws]

lol im excited to see gazelle come up :P i wonder if it will be a big enough change to tip the scale between them and waffles. right now i'd say they are pretty much balanced.

[Horatiu]

On these music sites it's almost impossible to have good ratio without a freeleech or at least a big freeleech torrent from time to time.
If everyone keeps uploading then we'd be stuck with 5 torrents of the same thing and that's not quality.

[krunktastic]

lol im excited to see gazelle come up :P i wonder if it will be a big enough change to tip the scale between them and waffles. right now i'd say they are pretty much balanced.

Waffles really has what beat in quality.

[teamlam]

thats why i LOVE stms ratio rules..works great..too bad their quality isn't quite as good as what or waffles..otherwise itd be amazing!

[Sanka113]

I do think What.cd should enforce a Hit n Run system. Not a strict one, but one where you have to seed for 36 hours before leaving the torrent. This will help achieve a culture of seeding, and keep their userbase free of people that leave torrents as soon as they dl them.

I think this would help their commmunity big time.

[WarrenBuffet]

i agree, there's no incentive to download when we see so many accounts getting deleted for bad ratio. those 'leechers' are the ones keeping the site alive, with so many ratio fucking crazy ex oinkers that seed OVER 1:1. (probably like 10:1) that just screws up the rest of us who dont have super fast connections
lol, my bad

[kadake]

what will change something soon i think, because people will find alternatives otherwise

they need to introduce either hit and run scheme or bonus scheme , or both.

Keep the members seeding for a good reason instead of a quiet client just announcing.

[fsephie]

I just uploaded a volume version of adobe master collection that wasn't on the site. Seeded up to about 50 gigs and then figure that's as much music as I'll ever download.

Though I do keep all the music on my seedbox seeded unless there's so many seeders on a torrent that it wouldn't make a difference.

[krunktastic]

I do think What.cd should enforce a Hit n Run system. Not a strict one, but one where you have to seed for 36 hours before leaving the torrent. This will help achieve a culture of seeding, and keep their userbase free of people that leave torrents as soon as they dl them.

I think this would help their commmunity big time.

Yeah, totally agree. I've uploaded 10 torrents, and while they've been snatched upwards of 10 times, none of them have seeders other than me. =(

[broomhead]

Yea I hate it, there are no leeches. I uploaded 1 torrent on brokenstones, got 10 leeches in 1 minute

uploaded on what.cd and got 1 leech in 1 month.

THe only thing i can do is upload hundreds of torrents and hope for people to leech.

[buggyfresh]

I do think What.cd should enforce a Hit n Run system. Not a strict one, but one where you have to seed for 36 hours before leaving the torrent. This will help achieve a culture of seeding, and keep their userbase free of people that leave torrents as soon as they dl them.
I think this would help their commmunity big time.


Yeah, totally agree. I've uploaded 10 torrents, and while they've been snatched upwards of 10 times, none of them have seeders other than me. =(

know the feeling!
Agreed..think seed bonus would help with the peons too.


Yea I hate it, there are no leeches. I uploaded 1 torrent on brokenstones, got 10 leeches in 1 minute

uploaded on what.cd and got 1 leech in 1 month.

THe only thing i can do is upload hundreds of torrents and hope for people to leech.

Yep..unfortunately my music supply is limited :|..oh well.

[Daniel]

A hit & run system would not help the tracker much but it'd certainly annoy some members.

What you guys seem to forget about is the important number of snatches per time and not in total. Pretty much every torrent that gets less than 1 new leecher per day (on average) will a) be hard to keep alive in the long turn and b) require previous downloaders to seed them for weeks on end. With so little activity on a considerable amount of torrents you'll never reach the goal of a long-term archive when you start with 36 hour hit & run rules. What are a few hours in the face of keeping a torrent alive for 6 months and more? To be brutally honest: hit & run rules such as those will only work on scene trackers where content is outdated after a couple of days.

Starting out on a tracker is always more difficult than maintaining an existing ratio but both is rather easy on what.cd. I'm past 50GB upload now (minus 10GB I got for free) and only about 1.5GB of that are from free leech torrents. Still, isn't that enough for everbody else to start out? You get some music for free and can afford some other downloads with the upload credit.


About the number of leechers/seeders you keep complaining about: there's of course the reason that some people were old oink members and they don't need to download things they already have or they rejected previously. This means that a considerable part of those 100k torrents is attractive to a much smaller group of users which means current releases are more popular and easier to keep alive. The problem with the "older" albums will exist as long those few members who download them aren't willing to keep them alive for a long time.

[grimms]

You need to upload stuff people want. Probably about 20 good albums or more. If not, you'll have a very low ratio for a long time to come. Same with Waffles.

[ScreaminJay]

Well, I uploaded a bunch... Now I just check and make sure they are well seeded. My ratio is fine... and I do the right thing and try to leech some too.

That is not the place to try and get 3-4 ratio at all, just download what you want and keep it seeding. That was the golden rule on oink too, download all you want, just keep it seeded for a while and your ratio will be fine.

[Gish]

at a place like what and waffles its all about uploading. thats the only way I have ever got my ratio up. even at oink it wasn't seeding a file that I had already downloaded it was what I uploaded(even though I do seed a file until 1:1 or dead). I have uploaded about 13 gigs at both what and waffles and only about a gig or two is from downloading rather than uploading.
this is not true for everyone but for many

[ScreaminJay]

But the ratio system only start getting to term when we get more leechers to counterbalance the amount of releases everyones is making.

Minimum ratio is 0.5 anyway, it's pretty easy to maintain. The more snatches, the more seeds per torrent, the better the overall tracker get.

[TP635]

What.Cd's Lack of Seeders

There is no lack of seeders; the opposite is true. There is little leeching activities in there except those torrents that are on FL. There are tons of files that I would love to dl but I would rather get them from elsewhere. cos I know I will need be able to seed back and regain my ratio.
As long as they have no seed bonus system this situation will go on for a very long time. And then...

[Ronnie Coleman]

There is lack of seeders because there is lack of leechers. :)

So, there is lack of both. All this comments just driving me into one direction > that tracker by itself isn't ACTIVE enough.

To be precise, there ARE enough people:

http://xs223.xs.to/xs223/08043/whatcd670.png

But reasons mentioned above my post (ex OiNK members donćt want music thez already got...) explained a lot.

At the and, there is nothing I can say except I am very sorry because of trackers "inactive" destiny... Hope it will change in the future...

[irnbru]

the site should get better in like 3 months

[DislikedWord]

I have to wait untill they editors choice freeleech albums show up and seed those. Thats the only way I have kept my account thus far. I think Ive dl'd maybe 5 other albums most of which had 0 leechers and <5 seeders.

[grimms]

What.Cd's Lack of SeedersThere is no lack of seeders; the opposite is true. There is little leeching activities in there except those torrents that are on FL. There are tons of files that I would love to dl but I would rather get them from elsewhere. cos I know I will need be able to seed back and regain my ratio.
As long as they have no seed bonus system this situation will go on for a very long time. And then...

I agree with you on that. They need some type of seed bonus system. I don't see it being implemented int he near future though.

[WarrenBuffet]

the lack of seeders is real bad. I almost dl 100 percent waffles now.

[Dark Archon]

i d/l and can't seed bad...gg

[Pzero]

Well, I don't think we are able to attribute lack of seeds to the site being 'young' as much, the site seems to be sadly slowing down quite drastically.

[TP635]

There is no lack of seeders; the opposite is true. There is little leeching activities in there except those torrents that are on FL. There are tons of files that I would love to dl but I would rather get them from elsewhere. cos I know I will need be able to seed back and regain my ratio.
As long as they have no seed bonus system this situation will go on for a very long time. And then...

I agree with you on that. They need some type of seed bonus system. I don't see it being implemented int he near future though.

The staff shot the idea down. There was a long thread in the forum about it. Well the way I see it they just shot down the tracker

[wilson47]

i don't like lossless so already, most of the stuff on what.cd is useless to me. I think i've downloaded 2 albums total in my 2+ months being on that site, because it's impossible to get a good ratio. For the record, I wasn't with oink beforehand either.

[Schoolboystuff]

I've never had a issue, downloaded plenty & just seed everything back - every seeds over time to well over 1 in ratio terms.
Sure you don't have a huge volume of people jumping on every single file, but give it a few days & you'll be fine.
Excellent for a still new tracker IMHO

[TP635]

I've never had a issue, downloaded plenty & just seed everything back - every seeds over time to well over 1 in ratio terms.
Sure you don't have a huge volume of people jumping on every single file, but give it a few days & you'll be fine.
Excellent for a still new tracker IMHO

I have files from last months that upload only less than 1mb; and I was seeding 24/7. I just stop seeding cos my client is now banned.

[orfik]

i don't like lossless so already, most of the stuff on what.cd is useless to me. I think i've downloaded 2 albums total in my 2+ months being on that site, because it's impossible to get a good ratio. For the record, I wasn't with oink beforehand either.
Waffles is excellent for a new tracker. What is struggling, and it's clear to the staff that their policies are inferior to Waffles, which is why they've made their PU requirement almost identical to Waffles, culled their user base to match Waffle's seeder/leecher ratio, and cut back on invites.

I don't like comparing the two either, but the What staff themselves are making that comparison and doing their best to compensate for a significant disadvantage. Not as if this was a competition in the first place, of course. ;)

[kp666]

hmm i guess they need to have a bit of freeleeches if they dont have it

[jeffsteez]

Shame neither site can sort out their 'scene' rip rules. At last 1/3 of supposed scene rips aren't scene at all or fail the sfv check.

[Falksteren]

Ok,read all the stuff from the beginning of the thread.Have to say that i'm not a member on what or waffles(i'd love too though :))The one thing i know is that people that were using oink couldn't run apps to steal upload and fake their ratio.So in the what situation maybe this is the problem,maybe they don't have the code needed to find the guys using apps like that..

[F3n1x]

yes, its a main problem.
I want download but i won't will see back because of no leechers and them politic about ratio its very hard, i uploaded some torrents but no leechers so its difficult.

In waffles i have a very good ratio, lucky of first days but now the same problem only uploading torrent and continue difficult.

[ceasar]

alot of people dont understand that seeding over 1:1 isnt helpful in this kind of situation. with no gifted upload or bonus system, to keep the site healthy everyone must seed 1:1, not greater.
please stop your torrent after you pass 1:1, unless there's a lack of seeders
Yeah, right, so what I have to do to dl all my 300 bookmarks, stop when I'm seeded to 1:1?
Hell no! I gonna seed what I snatched till I can, and the only person who decides when to stop gonna be myself.
Still with only seeding the torrents that I downloaded for month now + using "stuff selection" freeloads I managed only to keep ratio around 1. I'm not complaining and willing to solve this problem by uploading some music and upps and keep seeding what I already have, but please don't give such a dumb advise as disconnect as soon as you reach 1:1, cause none in his own mind will do it, and your ratio will be fcuked and account deleted, so chhose your own way if you wish, but don't lead the rest of us to nowhere.