Israeli ISP's are cause of the ban!

[SliDer5]

From Downrev site:

2008-01-24 - 16 TB - Smile & Kavey_Zaav ISP

Users from 012 & 015 ISP be careful!

There is suspects that your ISP used advanced technology against torrents that make your accounts appear with 16 TB Upload/Download ratio.
We are not responsible if your account will be disabled because this reason.

//Staff

From TL:

2008-01-24 - ISRAEL USERS

Unfortunately it seems, that a few Israeli ISPs, are intensionally altering the announces to our tracker of their clients, announcing to our tracker false stats (over 8.000.000 TB of upload and download) in order for these users to be probably banned (and save some bandwidth). We made a script to automatically detect this false announce, and reset the user's account (reset uploaded/downloaded). Although this is NOT a fix, only a temporary solution, we cannot do anything more from our part, since this is not a problem of our tracker. We know that reseting these accounts is not pleasant, but the other alternatives were to ban these accounts or to ban all the Israel Golden Lines ip block (which unfortunately seems very possible in the future, since our tracker gets hammered because of the problem above)

Seems most of the users having this problem use the ISP-> GOLDENLINES

[f@flot]

OMG,this has gone too far!!!They are such impudent.We gotta do something.
מה עושים?

[SliDer5]

OMG,this has gone too far!!!They are such impudent.We gotta do something.
מה עושים?

what can be done?

[aaatoel]

Too bad for Israel people... If I was Israeli (is this the right word?) I would be really pissed!

[monk3y]

instead of FIXING THIS DAMN BUG they ban us

//edit :

btw what's TL's irc channel

[pandabear]

Pretty good idea from isps. But why only TL not all other sites.

[vbwx]

I don't care anyway, i have 014 and not goldenlines, i know that this goldenlines are lame as usually.

[spark]

Pretty good idea from isps. But why only TL not all other sites.

Downrev 2

[SAM]

don't forget it's a privilege to have an account not a right
they can disable you for no reason even if you are a good user and donate
still they can disable you for no reason
isn't that , what they told you when you made a thread earlier .

[pro267]

If this is indeed true, then it may explain why a lot of Israeli users were labeled as cheaters on some trackers, in which case I can only imagine how those wrongfully accused of cheating must've felt.

[SaviouR]

If this is indeed true, then it may explain why a lot of Israeli users were labeled as cheaters on some trackers, in which case I can only imagine how those wrongfully accused of cheating must've felt.

QFT . too bad many of them must have banned for no reason at all and must have been labelled as a cheat for apparently no fault of thiers .

[fatcat69]

seedbox my friends...thats the only solution.

they can mess with the traffic all they want because you are on their network and bt isnt encrypted.

[WarrenBuffet]

I saw that message on TL's homepage

[Vanguard]

Bull....

[aysomc]

wow that makes it seem like heaven having comcast now. fuck it, fios needs to go worldwide right now!!!

[vergo]

This is probably not true.

[rvt]

As I explained in the other thread, 8 million TB is not caused by any php or mysql bug.
Therefore, it's either the ISP or the user, so it most probably is true.

If downrev is claiming 16 million TB (not 16TB) is caused by the ISP though, I hope they have some logs of that. 16m TB can be a result of 64bit unsigned rollover, and can be caused by php/mysql or the client.

[B3hAnch00d]

I doubt its cause of the ISP...i have had this problem on our site with a US box, and on other occasion where the user WAS'NT israeli. I did check the code and didn't find anything that couldve caused it, other thn the fact tht the seedbox was running for over a week and with like over 500 torrents on it, so guessed it mustve been something wrong with utorrent.

[sense]

fios needs to go worldwide right now!!!

No thanks, I don't want it to go national either. If every Tom, Dick, and Harry gets FiOS the speeds will suffer. Technology aside one of the main reasons FiOS is blazingly fast is because of the limited number of users. Speed will start to suffer and prices will go up once most of Verizon's subscribers switch over to FiOS. :( Hopefully there will be an alternative when that day comes.

[Brinza]

No thanks, I don't want it to go national either. If every Tom, Dick, and Harry gets FiOS the speeds will suffer. Technology aside one of the main reasons FiOS is blazingly fast is because of the limited number of users. Speed will start to suffer and prices will go up once most of Verizon's subscribers switch over to FiOS. http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../images/smilies/sad.gif Hopefully there will be an alternative when that day comes.

agree

[djfly]

omg again

[jeffsteez]

This isn't much different from having a slow connection and needing a seed box. Try to move to another ISP or think about getting one.

[silhoutte]

There is suspects that your ISP used advanced technology against torrents that make your accounts appear with 16 TB Upload/Download ratio.

This is bullshit! If this could be true, this should mean other ISP's have no complaints against torrenters cause if this technology is there in Israel, why other countries having more advanced technologies don't have this? Why RIAA...or whatever don't pressurize the ISP's to use something like it against torrenters? It's probably a technical issue cause they use something that unintentionally affect the announce.

[pandabear]

Because i suspect it will violate contract, when you do something like that. Not to mention it dries up the customers. In most countries there are so many options, if one isp did it, everyone would just switch isp.

[silhoutte]

Then why should Israili isps do this? Does this mean they exist with a mutual understanding when others are competing?

[Daniel]

It's difficult to believe that Isreali ISP's are truly sabotaging their customers' Internet behavior. Then again, I'm in no position to accuse anyone of anything but a healthy dose of scepticism is appropriate in this case.

The way this case has been brought to attention doesn't make me trust in the facts. A necessary next step is to prove this to be true - take a few trustworthy Israelian bt users that fit the profile and do some tests.

But even if it is true, I don't understand the ISP's in question. Why use a system that sabotages the user but doesn't prohibit him from transferring data the p2p way?

[torrentt]

its 100% true. every smart ass in here who says its bullshit, clearly doesn't have any idea what he is talking about.
the problem does exists.
goldenlines customers have this problem, and not other isp's customers.
sometimes its 8,388,608.17 TB
and sometimes its 16,777,216.00 TB (double)
go check torrentleech Top 10 list and see for yourself its a problem and not people cheating.

[silhoutte]

It's probably a technical issue cause they use something that unintentionally affect the announce.

I didn't question about the reliability of the news.

I just said if it's happening, its something unintentional.

[SliDer5]

if it is working in Israel, it may spread all around like a solution to piracy...
is there a way to encrypt or secure the connection?

[yayyyyyy]

https trackers... most of them does that.... dunno TL ;)

[sovaz]

https trackers... most of them does that.... dunno TL ;)
Of course https is the solution to this. Encrypting the data sent/received is the best solution to this problem....not only https while browsing but the essential thing is to use SSL for the announce URL...Some of the best trackers have already realized and implemeted this option....But most trackers don't use it unfortunately...wat a shame.:ermm:

[Polarbear]

if a provider manipulated internet traffic over here it would be a public scandal, people would boycott that isp and they would lose their customers.

[SliDer5]

I guess that people already started to move on to other ISPs, but what can they do if there are no such?

[torrentt]

problem for most of goldenlines customers is that they are committed to stay for 1 year or more... (some even 3 years)
if they move to some other isp, they will have to pay a fine (not cheap at all)

[assem]

As I explained in the other thread, 8 million TB is not caused by any php or mysql bug.
Therefore, it's either the ISP or the user, so it most probably is true.

If downrev is claiming 16 million TB (not 16TB) is caused by the ISP though, I hope they have some logs of that. 16m TB can be a result of 64bit unsigned rollover, and can be caused by php/mysql or the client.

its s 16 TB


2008-01-24 - 16 TB - Smile Internet Gold & Kavi Zahav ISP
Users from 012 & 015 ISP be careful!
There is suspects that your ISP used advanced technology aginst torrents that make your accouts apear with 16 TB Upload/Download ratio.
We are not responsible if your account will be disabled because this reason.
//Staff

[dididave]

As a tracker owner we have also banned this IP range as found as 99% of all users using them are cheating the tracker stats and rules.
It's also a well known fact there are a large number of Tor and Proxy servers operated on these ranges and used by users to bypass a ban put on them by some site or other.
Trackers that have been running for some time now will have a large database to which to gain stats on useage and numbers of users and users found to have cheated in the past and present.
If a range of IP's is highlighted in this search then they will get banned as a tracker is not there to give users a free ride at the expense of it's users that do follow rules and also seed back to a 1:1 ratio or higher.

[Diiyad]

Everyone complaining about being banned should take a minute and appreciate the fact that you still have an account on TL. It is your ISP that is affecting the tracker, be grateful. I think a thread on the GoldenLine forums would be more suitable.

[DyNast]

Grateful for what? for being banned after doing nothing wrong, and then, after talking with the staff, getting no help? instead of that, the only thing that this poor members of TL got was a big laugh at them...

anyway, TL staff, as far as I know, didn't really try to listen to this people and said they were cheating... I mean, come on, they didn't even TRY to help or listen to what they had to say

[Diiyad]

Grateful for what? for being banned after doing nothing wrong, and then, after talking with the staff, getting no help? instead of that, the only thing that this poor members of TL got was a big laugh at them...

anyway, TL staff, as far as I know, didn't really try to listen to this people and said they were cheating... I mean, come on, they didn't even TRY to help or listen to what they had to say

TL provided new accounts for the Israeli users. Nothing is wrong with the site, it is the ISP that is "hammering the tracker". Be grateful they didn't block the entire ISP, even though it might happen in the future. I understand your frustration, but if you put yourself in the staff's shoes, you are the problem.

[SaviouR]

Grateful for what? for being banned after doing nothing wrong, and then, after talking with the staff, getting no help? instead of that, the only thing that this poor members of TL got was a big laugh at them...

anyway, TL staff, as far as I know, didn't really try to listen to this people and said they were cheating... I mean, come on, they didn't even TRY to help or listen to what they had to say

i can understand ur frustation , but what u have said is wrong . TL was one of the first to react and rectifying about this israel isp matter .

it is but obvious and understandable that they might have banned the users at start of this issue as absolutely no one knew it could be the ISP creating the problems for the users . if u were an admin as well of a tracker , u would have banned them as well at the start . the first thing that will come to ur mind is some group of smartasses trying to fool around and its is obvious to ban them . the sites dont have some magic skills to guess that isp will make life a mess of the israel torrent users . atleast they made an effort to get into the matter and rectifying the solution .

As they say "Better late than Never" .

[DyNast]

Well, I'm not frustrated at all cause I didn't get banned... and I put myself in the banned Israeli user's shoes

Provided new accounts? well, maybe to some of them, some of them got their accounts reseted and some got banned forever
Why did they get banned forever? well, because that in the beginning the TL staff didn't even want to hear what this users had to say, and only made a good laugh at them when some of them said it's because of their ISP...

Who is laughing now? well, I don't know, is it the staff of TL that have an excuce to ban the Israeli users and take the "easy" way out, or the Israeli users who finally showed the staff that they were right all the way, and they didn't cheat

Well, you say Israeli users are the problem... how come? if an, let's say, Italian user got his account hijacked and then he goes and complains to the TL staff, is he the problem? I think you know the answer

anyway, I'm really not sure it's not fixable...
I have the same "problematic" ISP, and I have never had any "faking" problem like that in any tracker
and not even that, TL is the only tracker which causes this problem to the Israeli users, and why? why this thing never happens in other trackers? I really don't think it's just a coincidence, I think that in the best case, that's just a bug in TL's system

[SliDer5]

Well, I'm not frustrated at all cause I didn't get banned... and I put myself in the banned Israeli user's shoes

Provided new accounts? well, maybe to some of them, some of them got their accounts reseted and some got banned forever
Why did they get banned forever? well, because that in the beginning the TL staff didn't even want to hear what this users had to say, and only made a good laugh at them when some of them said it's because of their ISP...

Who is laughing now? well, I don't know, is it the staff of TL that have an excuce to ban the Israeli users and take the "easy" way out, or the Israeli users who finally showed the staff that they were right all the way, and they didn't cheat

Well, you say Israeli users are the problem... how come? if an, let's say, Italian user got his account hijacked and then he goes and complains to the TL staff, is he the problem? I think you know the answer

anyway, I'm really not sure it's not fixable...
I have the same "problematic" ISP, and I have never had any "faking" problem like that in any tracker
and not even that, TL is the only tracker which causes this problem to the Israeli users, and why? why this thing never happens in other trackers? I really don't think it's just a coincidence, I think that in the best case, that's just a bug in TL's system

I don't think that something wrong with TL system, cause there are same issue on Downrev and I myself had some issues about 8-9 months ago with 013 ISP, after 3 days of testing I finally figured out that the ISP was blocking TL and other announce trackers in different hours, so program could not get access at all, then I moved to other ISP and problem was gone forever.
Another thing here in Israel about month ago or so one of ISP claimed via their client service that other ISPs is blocking the P2P one way or another, all the thing came out to newspaper, and even after that those ISPs denying of doing so.

[pandabear]

TL is free, so by getting banned, nothing is lost.

[DyNast]

Regardless of the fact that invitations are closed - no way to get back, not soon at least, people lose a good source for their BT needs, some of them lose decent buffers and in the end of the they lose a great tracker... so how can you say nothing is lost?

[pandabear]

Torrenting is an privilege not a need. I understand losing a buffer hurts, but its just a torrent site. You need to look at this in perspective.

[DyNast]

You are right about that, but this is not what the thread is about, and people would prefer to keep their accounts instead of losing them for no reason

[SaviouR]

Also one more very important thing i wanted to convey . an ISP which can do this kind of damage to its torrent users must be logging all the activites of these users as well . i dunno about how Israel cyber laws , but hey , this ISP can go one step further as well to counter the heavy-usage torrenters as well , u just never know .

[SliDer5]

Also one more very important thing i wanted to convey . an ISP which can do this kind of damage to its torrent users must be logging all the activites of these users as well . i dunno about how Israel cyber laws , but hey , this ISP can go one step further as well to counter the heavy-usage torrenters as well , u just never know .

it may be a next step

[Submission]

just ban the israeli's from BT. problem solved and no headaches.