Anti-Trading rule with a hidden agenda?

[soulreaper]

Hello everyone.Invite trading,as we all know is prohibited by almost all bittorrent trackers.However it still goes on in one form or another and as you know there is a trading forum on fst.So that begs the question:- Why should trackers like iTS/SCL(clover/flower) be treated any differently?

I may/maynot be a member of both sites and i dont have a personal grudge against either of them.But here's a point of view i came up with :-

"Hey guys,lets make a torrent site where we will make sure that its mighty hard to get in by preventing trade on a forum so that we attract the best possible uploaders, climb up the WIAW thread(not for the level) but to attract "experienced and active" users and be the best damn torrent site in the world"

It's gone to the point where SCT and NB invites are being traded for iTS/SCL which are fairly new and quite short on content.They maybe sites with great potential and maybe rare though,but seriously? These "newish" sites like iTS and SCL have also unintentionally/intentionally created disharmony amongst torrenters dont you think?

Avoid bashing me as i'm only looking for your opinion.An opinion is your point of view on the subject and it may/maynot be correct.

Traders and Anti-traders please post here as i want an allround view on this subject. I'd like you guys to express your opinions without any fear at all.
Be honest and avoid flaming please.

Please pay special attention to what i've quoted.

[Tokeman]

they should not and will not be treated any differently. See this post for further info, it is discussed in detail.
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-invites-90/t-its-just-let-you-all-know-274771

[Sylar666]

I guess neither ITS, nor ScL is nowhere near to SCT, despite having the same LVL - category. Which is a joke, and very artificial, because this WIAW generates unnecessary interest for these two newcomers. They just simply did not deserve the same rank as SCT - rarity or else. Is it enough that like I establish a new tracker, close the gate then overhype it...and I make it to the top? This is nonsense! Hope no harm done - nothing personal,it is just plain wrong to put the two noob - tracker to the level of a real big player, like SCT. Let alone Bithumen or NB owns any of the aforementioned two.

[soulreaper]

I guess neither ITS, nor ScL is nowhere near to SCT, despite having the same LVL - category. Which is a joke, and very artificial, because this WIAW generates unnecessary interest for these two newcomers. They just simply did not deserve the same rank as SCT - rarity or else. Is it enough that like I establish a new tracker, close the gate then overhype it...and I make it to the top? This is nonsense! Hope no harm done - nothing personal,it is just plain wrong to put the two noob - tracker to the level of a real big player, like SCT. Let alone Bithumen or NB owns any of the aforementioned two.

Was thinking along the same lines.But could this be a calculated move on the part of the admin of those sites by being "more harsh" to traders and thus gaining more interest amongst users?

[monk3y]

nobody told you to look at the WTAW thread, if you think these trackers are good by reviews and friends then find your way in.

oh and nobody forced you trading sct for its/scl or trading at all so i don't really see what's the purpose of this thread ?

you are not a member of either sites, it doesn't look as if you want to get in so what's the point ?

[Nemrod]

I haven´t seen any sign that what you say is something preconceived, something made with the idea of creating expectations and hype the thing.
I saw a group of friends that decided to make a good community-tracker based in good content, friendly environment and low profile.
Everything else, in my opinion, are collateral damages, not induced, desired or good for us.

People seems to forget very fast but I remember that an iTS SysOp came here and asked people to join, the only requirement was to explain why. I think that it´s hard to find something less demanding or exclusive.

Before that, after I read a review and much before this whole opera started I PMed iTS CR at FST, asked him info and the possibility to join their community. At all time they payed me attention and answered each and every answer I had. And finally I was invited. I am a regular guy, I have not a big connection, I´m not an uploader, I have not seedbox, I´m not Slovak, I´m not an old member at FST and I´m specially nothing ... even I have problems writing in English, but I´m there, proudly of that, and every day more and more.
Something like that happened with SCL.

I think people who complains about the way iTS and SLC manage their recruit system is in the first place guilty of all of this mess. That and people that want to join just because it´s hard... another mark in the grip, and have not even a clue what the hell are, have and offer iTS and SCL. I´ve heard things like "I want join because they have a huge collection of... ", crap!, we have only huge collection of good willings.
I´m pretty sure that staff and members of both sites would be very much happy if nobody even mention our sites.
Before all this big wave, people could get in in a relatively easy way, staff gave invites, came here to offer invites and even allowed any user asked them via PM, now what happens it´s that everyday is harder because more than the half people want get in just want to get the account or the invite and trade it. That and the morbid desire to see what the hell are those "sacred places".

[danio]

I guess neither ITS, nor ScL is nowhere near to SCT, despite having the same LVL - category. Which is a joke, and very artificial, because this WIAW generates unnecessary interest for these two newcomers. They just simply did not deserve the same rank as SCT - rarity or else. Is it enough that like I establish a new tracker, close the gate then overhype it...and I make it to the top? This is nonsense! Hope no harm done - nothing personal,it is just plain wrong to put the two noob - tracker to the level of a real big player, like SCT. Let alone Bithumen or NB owns any of the aforementioned two.


I don't see the problem with ScL and iTS being on the same level as SCT. They are about as hard to get into as SCT, and then it doesn't matter how new or old the tracker is (since it's todays date that counts), and this is what the WTAW thread is supposed to reflect. They are not however, in the same rank as SCT when it comes to quality (pre-times, content, speed) where SCT is a 10 and ScL/iTS is a 6.

Now if the equal rarity level between these trackers means that these two newcomers gets overhyped by some people, i don't see how on earth it matters? If people are dumb enough to trade their invites based solely on the levels, and then gets disappointed by the quality on the trackers they traded for, they have their own stupidity to blame.

So to summarize my opinion: the levels are reflecting how hard the tracker is to get into (today), regardless of how old it is, and it has nothing to do with quality. Being on a high level does not make the tracker to be "in the top" in my eyes, because I argue that the rank within the brackets [] is what defines a top tracker, not it's rarity. And to get rid of this misguidance problem i think the trackers in the WTAW thread should reorganized to be ranked primarily on quality and that rarity is secondary, within brackets.

[tralalala]

You'll notice, that invite trading is not prohibited on FST. It's prohibited on the trackers themselves.. Unless you mean otherwise.

[nemrac]

Here's my two cents.

Sites that disapprove of invite/account trading are well within their rights to do so. Some sites would like to boast the largest content, some the largest user count and others want to claim the most exclusive site. It's their prerogative to do so. Asking sites like FST to prohibit certain activities is also their prerogative.

At this point in time i really do not have any interest in joining certain high level trackers - i just don't have the time to contribute to all the various sites, communities and groups i presently am a member of. Others would die to have certain high level trackers just for the sack of saying 'I'm a member at xxxx' or adding a coulourful user banner in their signature.

In the end, the sites that do not allow trading of invites and accounts just make the traders/collectors more hungry and the people that actually want to get on the sites to actually contribute more frustrated.

Nemrac

[bikernin]

I guess neither ITS, nor ScL is nowhere near to SCT, despite having the same LVL - category. Which is a joke, and very artificial, because this WIAW generates unnecessary interest for these two newcomers. They just simply did not deserve the same rank as SCT - rarity or else. Is it enough that like I establish a new tracker, close the gate then overhype it...and I make it to the top? This is nonsense! Hope no harm done - nothing personal,it is just plain wrong to put the two noob - tracker to the level of a real big player, like SCT. Let alone Bithumen or NB owns any of the aforementioned two.

my friend, the level only indicates rarity and not quality. you need only look into the brackets to see that sct has the highest rating there can be

[soulreaper]

You'll notice, that invite trading is not prohibited on FST. It's prohibited on the trackers themselves.. Unless you mean otherwise.

Initially iTS and SCL (iTS especially) trade threads were generating a barrage of insults from members of those trackers and it was especially wrong to trade these particular trackers isn't it? I mean any trader who would wanna trade an x,y or z tracker for iTS was getting hammered(literally) by members.
Why was iTS getting singled out for trading when ALL trackers despise it?Wasn't this to create hype?
Having said that this situation has been officially resolved by detale.

[stoi]

Im not going to get to involved here like the other thread.

But if these high level trackers wanted to remain anonymous, and elite, why have a review on here.

there are plenty of trackers out there that are not listed in the rarity thread, and thats because they do not have a review.

but they are listed in the Post all trackers here thread.

but you never see anyone screaming out for most of those in that thread, its just the ones that have a review and are in the rarity thread that get all the attention.

Thats just my 2 cents anyway, if you dont want the attention, dont have a review on here.

[ideto]

So, in your opinion, being a private tracker and only let join good members isn't the right way?
What is it so?
Open singups and hope God tell everybody to let ScT, FTN Nb ... and use the new and 'not with hidden trading rules' Tracker?

This is simple.
Everybody is allowed to trade anyhting here.
Everybody is allowed to suggest the others not to trade.

So whats the problem?
When you see some1 trading u*-* you also see 4578468786184545486742515878 posts telling him not to. What's the difference betewen iTS/ScL?

Btw, if you(or any1 else) believed in that ''no mediatic trackers as iTS/ScL'' you
would ask invites when Staff gave them, and nobody knew that there weren't a ratio system or good users, so, don't say those who joined and advise the others not to trade are lammers.

bte, who were tha staff wishing be on wiaw thread? lol

sylar is right, trackers are rare if they can, but people wish them and nobody farced them to lol

[tralalala]

@soulreaper: Because they can.. As long as people don't breach FST rules, they can do whatever the hell they like, and we honestly don't take to doing what trackers' admins and co. tell us to do regarding our rules. We have rules, we make sure they aren't broken. If someone wants to trade invites, we won't stop them simply because it's not against the rules. If the admins and sysops want to make a mess out of those threads, that's their own choice, we will simply lock those threads, and explain that it is not against our rules, so the only action they can take is outside of FST.

[LordS]

Our Aggenda isn't hidden.

It's to keep people like you out, also how does 1 get removed from that rarity board thingy?

I requested to be not put in the newcommer site awards and was ignored.

[Tokeman]

Well for starters, not posting any information about the tracker here in the first place would have helped kept it off the WTAW. There were numerous threads about iTS before it started, when it was started, etc. Stop the information spread before it starts, and you will be more anonymous in the torrent world.

[stoi]

as far as i know, the review should have never been posted in the first place, once its there, its hard if not impossible to get it removed.

obviously a staff member would be able to tell you better though.

[grimms]

LordS as long as your a Community Rep on FST they will probably deny you(I am speculating on this, but mods feel free to flame or correct me on this one). I agree with what your trying to say around here. You want your tracker to only have good quality members that make it a better place to experience and bring growth to the community. You also don't want your site mentioned in anyway via review and rarity board threads. But as long as your a comm rep, certain entries will probably stay intact due to fst site rules. I would maybe talk to Reality regarding getting all info removed relating to your site that would bring unwanted attention.

Unfortunately though once "Good" words get out throughout the internet it's hard to erase it's existence. Now that sites like Scl and iTS have been reviewed, talked about, and promoted against (Tracker staff) much can't be done. It's like a sextape that has been validated. Once the video footage (info) is out there, the hype and peoples opinions will come along with it. Whether you like it or not. Unfortunately traders will trade and do anything to be apart of it. Good members will talk about it as well wishing that they could be a member of said trackers and expressing their thoughts and opinions as well(If they feel the content or community is good and just want to be apart of it all). The approach are just different.

[tralalala]

^ Couldn't have phrased it better than that.

[grimms]

^ Couldn't have phrased it better than that.
Thanks tralalala. I guess i'm just starting to understand it all better now thanks to FST.:)

[Sylar666]

So to summarize my opinion: the levels are reflecting how hard the tracker is to get into (today), regardless of how old it is, and it has nothing to do with quality. Being on a high level does not make the tracker to be "in the top" in my eyes, because I argue that the rank within the brackets [] is what defines a top tracker, not it's rarity. And to get rid of this misguidance problem i think the trackers in the WTAW thread should reorganized to be ranked primarily on quality and that rarity is secondary, within brackets.

I agree.

@bikernin I'm well aware of that. But many members here have a tendency to misinterpret the meaning / purpose of the WIAW thread and leaning on it as some kind of St. Grael. That's exactly what I was trying to tell - so pls, don't state the obvious, Dude - I know what rarity and quality means, and I can tell one from another, believe me.
But the end of the day most people conclude that ITS and ScL worth the likes of Bithumen, NB, SCT. This is misguiding! And, BTW I don't give a pink sad fuck about rarity. It's not because that I have anything against or pro traders, I am plainly not interested in rarity. That feature has nothing in it for me. Period. And I am quite happy that there is an opportunity to dispute this in a cultured, polite way. After all - this is just FUN!
Have a good nite all.

[SgtMajor]

Our Agenda isn't hidden.

It's to keep people like you out, also how does 1 get removed from that rarity board thingy?

I requested to be not put in the newcomer site awards and was ignored.

Too late, the cat is out of the bag.

This is a file sharing forum, this is the BT part of that forum, some might not like what goes on here, but freedom of speech has to be defended and indeed encouraged, and if what the members do here are within FSTs rules and if members here want to talk about what goes on within the BT world, then that is how it is.

Rather than CRs having to fight their own corner all the time, the best course of action would be to manage the situation as best they can, and actually staying out of threads such as this would have been the best way, by all means monitor matters of interest but do not add fuel to the fire and stoke the flames even higher, you only encourage the interest in what you are trying to hide.

In fact, you had members of your tracker here telling everyone how they helped in the design of your tracker. how it should be spelled, how it should be referred to, informing everyone of change of TLD etc, etc, so you can't have it both ways. The only way forward is to be able to keep a lid on things and tread more gently, and remind members within the confines of your own tracker that things are being monitored and get fellow members to help track down who is doing what and make it more self policing from within, and leave well alone what you can't influence.

[Sylar666]

Our Agenda isn't hidden.

It's to keep people like you out, also how does 1 get removed from that rarity board thingy?

I requested to be not put in the newcomer site awards and was ignored.

Too late, the cat is out of the bag.

This is a file sharing forum, this is the BT part of that forum, some might not like what goes on here, but freedom of speech has to be defended and indeed encouraged, and if what the members do here are within FSTs rules and if members here want to talk about what goes on within the BT world, then that is how it is.

Rather than CRs having to fight their own corner all the time, the best course of action would be to manage the situation as best they can, and actually staying out of threads such as this would have been the best way, by all means monitor matters of interest but do not add fuel to the fire and stoke the flames even higher, you only encourage the interest in what you are trying to hide.

In fact, you had members of your tracker here telling everyone how they helped in the design of your tracker. how it should be spelled, how it should be referred to, informing everyone of change of TLD etc, etc, so you can't have it both ways. The only way forward is to be able to keep a lid on things and tread more gently, and remind members within the confines of your own tracker that things are being monitored and get fellow members to help track down who is doing what and make it more self policing from within, and leave well alone what you can't influence.

Every word is made of gold, as usual, Sir. U are absolutely right. What has been done and said here regarding ScL is by nature blatant hypocritical.

[bikernin]

So to summarize my opinion: the levels are reflecting how hard the tracker is to get into (today), regardless of how old it is, and it has nothing to do with quality. Being on a high level does not make the tracker to be "in the top" in my eyes, because I argue that the rank within the brackets [] is what defines a top tracker, not it's rarity. And to get rid of this misguidance problem i think the trackers in the WTAW thread should reorganized to be ranked primarily on quality and that rarity is secondary, within brackets.

I agree.

@bikernin I'm well aware of that. But many members here have a tendency to misinterpret the meaning / purpose of the WIAW thread and leaning on it as some kind of St. Grael. That's exactly what I was trying to tell - so pls, don't state the obvious, Dude - I know what rarity and quality means, and I can tell one from another, believe me.
But the end of the day most people conclude that ITS and ScL worth the likes of Bithumen, NB, SCT. This is misguiding! And, BTW I don't give a pink sad fuck about rarity. It's not because that I have anything against or pro traders, I am plainly not interested in rarity. That feature has nothing in it for me. Period. And I am quite happy that there is an opportunity to dispute this in a cultured, polite way. After all - this is just FUN!
Have a good nite all.

i agree buddy. it is in a way misguiding for people who dont know how to interpret the WTAW thread. people treat trackers like currency here sometimes during trades. all said and done sct is a far better site but eventually all of them are kinda equally hard to get into right now. i think for people like us who are not concerned with trading, it is something we should gladly ignore.

[grimms]

I agree with both the hero villian and SgtMajor on this one and both of their points of views. Like i stated in my previous post. The cat is out of the bag. I know it's probably frustrating to have all the negative attention regarding your site LordS. In negative i mean people who constantly trade to try to in get in or the few url posting incidents that occured. But it's out there now and not much could be done about it. I would probably just try to enforce rules in a polite understanding way and just raise your hands in the air and hope for the best. People will talk. This is the BT section and this forum is all about FileSharing and all the issues that come along with it.

[SAM]

ITS didn't ask anyone to trade sct invite to join its ranks .
all it asked for , is to left alone so why can't we do that ?
why people should trade great sct for a new tracker.
if it isn't greed so why?

[Sylar666]

Nobody trades SCT for ITS or Flower unless he is simply dumb, or greedy as U say. U do not swop Your Lamborghnini for a VW Golf (let alone that is a decent car). But hardcore traders are usually smart, not retards at all. :)

[sear]

@sylar I agree VW Golfs are a decent car :P

This whole ITs thing is getting boring. Here's some free advice for members just shut up about it and the hype will go away. All the hoo hah is just making it worse...much much worse. Once people realise they can't really trade for it (or it's very hard) because there are very few invites it will quieten down.

Every post in an ITs trade thread just makes it worse. Every post in topics about ITs in the BT section just makes it worse. People will get bored with it if members would only let them.

[munkyboy04]

Surley its best just to get rid of the WTAW completley. And then if people want to trade they can trade, offer what they want to get into a tracker, if thats what they want. At least then people would be trying to get into a tracker because they want what it has to offer, rather than some imaginary tracker level

But that will stop this crazy demand for trackers based solely on how rare it is to get in.

[sear]

Surley its best just to get rid of the WTAW completley. And then if people want to trade they can trade, offer what they want to get into a tracker, if thats what they want. At least then people would be trying to get into a tracker because they want what it has to offer, rather than some imaginary tracker level

But that will stop this crazy demand for trackers based solely on how rare it is to get in.

That is never ever...ever going to happen.

[stroj]

@sylar I agree VW Golfs are a decent car :P

This whole ITs thing is getting boring. Here's some free advice for members just shut up about it and the hype will go away. All the hoo hah is just making it worse...much much worse. Once people realise they can't really trade for it (or it's very hard) because there are very few invites it will quieten down.

Every post in an ITs trade thread just makes it worse. Every post in topics about ITs in the BT section just makes it worse. People will get bored with it if members would only let them.

Make a poll "Would you continue trading, if there was no WIAW?"

[sear]

Make a poll "Would you continue trading, if there was no WIAW?"

There's no need. That poll has been done at least three times the WTAW thread is going nowhere.

BTW...munkyboy04 and stroj I'm not trying to attack either of you so don't take it the wrong way I'm just stating the facts as I see them.

[mrnobody]

So that begs the question:- Why should trackers like iTS/SCL(clover/flower) be treated any differently?

who told u it is treated differently?

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-invites-90/t-its-just-let-you-all-know-274771


But here's a point of view i came up with :-

"Hey guys,lets make a torrent site where we will make sure that its mighty hard to get in by preventing trade on a forum so that we attract the best possible uploaders, climb up the WIAW thread(not for the level)

sorry m8 but you are so wrong

the staffer there don't even give a damn about lvls

majority of the iTS staffer registered here recently and don't post here at all...except benchi...he has been FSTing for ages and i assure u that he doesn't care about WIAW thread either

beside, what is wrong with preventing traders? most trackers do, don't they?


but to attract "experienced and active" users and be the best damn torrent site in the world"

isn't that the universal goal?


It's gone to the point where SCT and NB invites are being traded for iTS/SCL which are fairly new and quite short on content.They maybe sites with great potential and maybe rare though,but seriously? These "newish" sites like iTS and SCL have also unintentionally/intentionally created disharmony amongst torrenters dont you think?

i have said this before and here i will repeat myself again: WIAW does not do justice.

consider this:

i create a tracker with VERY trusted 100 people and close my invites (given that those 100 people won't share/trade their account), will my tracker be lvl 10?

similarly, i think there should be a age limit before a tracker can be added to WIAW lvls (or say, before a tracker can be bumped above 3 lvl) thread but they won't listen. If only they had a rule saying something like "for a tracker to be 3 lvl + the tracker must have WXYZ members and the tracker must be X year old" i think things would have been better.

[munkyboy04]

I understand.

But this whole thing is going to keep happening as long as there a false value put onto Trackers. And its bad for the whole Bit Torrent community. Its getting people angry and really its all a waste of time.

[SgtMajor]

I understand.

But this whole thing is kind is going to keep happening as long as there a false value put onto Trackers. And its bad for the whole Bit Torrent community. Its getting people angry and really its all a waste of time.

It's cyclic, 12 months ago the BT MODs were active traders and everyone loved the thread and it was the best thing since sliced bread etc etc.

12 months later and the reverse is true, but the way to change things is to keep being heard and if there eventually enough voices singing from the same hymn sheet they will outnumber those shouting & screaming for the status quo to be retained, it would after all be the democratic thing to do.

[munkyboy04]

I understand.

But this whole thing is kind is going to keep happening as long as there a false value put onto Trackers. And its bad for the whole Bit Torrent community. Its getting people angry and really its all a waste of time.

It's cyclic, 12 months ago the BT MODs were active traders and everyone loved the thread and it was the best thing since sliced bread etc etc.

12 months later and the reverse is true, but the way to change things is to keep being heard and if there eventually enough voices singing from the same hymn sheet they will outnumber those shouting & screaming for the status quo to be retained, it would after all be the democratic thing to do.

agreed.

[grimms]

Everyone will just have to suck it up. We live in reality. Some things simply cannot be changed. No matter how much we all bitch about wanting change. I don't see the thread going anywhere. I guess decreasing the amount of exposure to sites or not talking about them is the only way to thwart this issue, at this time. Unless a new universal rule arises within FST. I don't see that happening. We all just have to co-exist and accept ones love for rarity, content, forums, trading, etc, etc, did i say etc?

[Artemis]

Some things simply cannot be changed. No matter how much we all bitch about wanting change

You can and I do try to change the attitudes one user at a time, or at least give them a broader perspective since so many here simply see the community as something to serve them rather than something to belong to.


I don't see that happening. We all just have to co-exist and accept ones love for rarity, content, forums, trading, etc, etc, did i say etc?

Why accept it ? with trading come scamming hit & running becomes much easier and of course the current favorite invite selling. More and more sites are closing invitations for indefinite periods to stop the hoard from trading away site memberships like baseball cards. If you truly care about the community then you should try and stand up and explain why it is wrong and show new users that there is another way, it is boring and repetitive and everyone jumps up and down and says just accept it, but this permissive just accept it attitude is what is causing all the problems because if you accept trading then you have to accept all the other problems that this brings.

[grimms]

Trust me Artemis I try all the time. But then we end up an a Trader, Anti-Trader dispute. I try to give advice to new members and even some seasoned members in this forum (if they need or ask for it)But relating to the situation about Tracker Staff not wanting their tracker name to be spread (due to the traders, bad apples or whatever) within this site is nearly impossible to circumvent. 1. Because this forum is all about File Sharing Talk. 2. Due to the internet, the other hundred plus forums in existence and due to word of mouth, talk, and promotion of said sites whatever may have you.

Also Artemis i didn't mean accept trading but we do need to except the fact that they will always be members wanting to trade. Trust me, personally i do not accept or condone users trading accounts, scamming, or selling invites. Unfortunately we have to accept the fact that as long as we GOOD members remain on FST, we also have to accept the fact that the'll be members that trade, sell, scam, love trackers for rarity etc(even if we don't interact with them). But what i do know is the mods on here are always actively out to seek and ban scammers, cheaters, and sellers which is a great thing. Just do know that some of them come through the gate whether we know it or not. I choose to align myself with good trusted users. Sorry for phrasing my previous post wrong. I don't want you to get the wrong impression.

Edit: Artemis if you read some of the previous threads i posted in you should know that i do not condone trading, invite selling, etc. That is the reason why sites have closed sign-ups and disabled invites or the invitation system.

[Dark Archon]

why does it matter? i*S and s*l are great.