PDA

View Full Version : This Will Give Ya Chills For Sure



sampson
07-31-2003, 08:27 AM
http://64.177.83.63/liberty/email.htm

MagicNakor
07-31-2003, 12:50 PM
I'm sorry to inform you that this does not give me chills for sure. Oddly enough, it reminded me of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I'm certain that wasn't its original intent, but there you go.

:ninja:

lynx
07-31-2003, 03:04 PM
Another whining warmonger who thinks that if you don't agree with his viewpoint then you are a snivelling coward and should keep your mouth shut.

He also thinks that 9/11 was a good reason for war with Iraq, even though there has been no link shown.

Proper Bo
07-31-2003, 05:28 PM
WOO&#33; USA&#33; USA&#33; USA&#33; USA&#33; USA&#33; <_<

billyfridge
07-31-2003, 05:46 PM
What goes around comes around, as old binliner,saddam, and co&#39; will find out.
The world is not big enough for those arseholes to hide in. it&#39;s only a matter of time&#33;&#33; billyfridge <_<

Proper Bo
07-31-2003, 05:50 PM
Will bush and blair find that out then too?

hobbes
07-31-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@31 July 2003 - 13:50
I&#39;m sorry to inform you that this does not give me chills for sure. Oddly enough, it reminded me of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I&#39;m certain that wasn&#39;t its original intent, but there you go.

:ninja:
The parallel escapes me, completely. Maybe both sets of civilians killed, were victims of actions undertaken by their governments, but that seems specious.


Your comment is very out of character, so I assume you were responding to the emotional manipulation the poster and his link were attempting to force on you. I can&#39;t help but be a little disappointed. You should direct your response to the poster, not the victims.


As for my response, it does not fill me with sadness, but a terrible rage.

thewizeard
07-31-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by hobbes+31 July 2003 - 21:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes &#064; 31 July 2003 - 21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MagicNakor@31 July 2003 - 13:50
I&#39;m sorry to inform you that this does not give me chills for sure. Oddly enough, it reminded me of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I&#39;m certain that wasn&#39;t its original intent, but there you go.

:ninja:
The parallel escapes me, completely. Maybe both sets of civilians killed, were victims of actions undertaken by their governments, but that seems specious.


Your comment is very out of character, so I assume you were responding to the emotional manipulation the poster and his link were attempting to force on you. I can&#39;t help but be a little disappointed. You should direct your response to the poster, not the victims.


As for my response, it does not fill me with sadness, but a terrible rage. [/b][/quote]
Hello Hobbes,

The mind is a strange organ. Unexpected associations can be conjured up.

Your feelings of rage surprised me. You did not explain the cause of your rage. Did you mean the use of the atomic bomb against civilians or the aeroplanes flying into the towers?

Edit: The manipulation or something else

MagicNakor
07-31-2003, 09:11 PM
It was the constant "Never Forget." It&#39;s a phrase that&#39;s been applied to both Great Wars, the atomic bombing of Japan (although not the firebombing of Tokyo, which is rather confusing), and more recently, the Holocaust.

I wasn&#39;t commenting on the victims at all, but, as you said, the flagrant attempt at emotional manipulation. Perhaps if sampson had had something in his post than "This Will Give Ya Chills For Sure" and a link, there would&#39;ve been more to respond to. And while I have sympathy for the victims and their friends and family, the event entire has been grossly manipulated by the United States government.

Or perhaps I just cannot have the emotional response that is trying to be provoked. My roommate, who is American, was certainly more distraught about the entire event than I was.

:ninja:

kAb
07-31-2003, 09:55 PM
i thought it was good, up until the &#39;in your face&#39; comments like "THIS COULD BE YOUR SISTER" and shit like that. it would&#39;ve been fine without the words.

but for those of you who are discrespecting the U.S. and in effect mocking the sept. 11 attacks, FUCK YOU.

Lamsey
07-31-2003, 10:50 PM
If you want to hear a truely great response to the events of Sept. 11, listen to the lyrics of Bon Jovi&#39;s Undivided:



That was my brother lost in the rubble
That was my sister lost in the crush
That was our mothers, those were our children
That was our fathers, that was each one of us
A million prayers to God above
A million tears make an ocean of

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you

I found spirit, they couldn&#39;t ruin it
I found courage in the smoke and dust
I found faith in the songs you silenced
Deep down it&#39;s ringing out in each of us
Yeah... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

How many hands? How many hearts?
How many dreams been torn apart?
Enough, enough... the time has come to rise back as

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

Undivided.
Undivided.

One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

Not overly sentimental, not overly confrontational, just defiant and unbuckled, and united in the face of tragedy. As we all should be.

hobbes
07-31-2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by nigel123+31 July 2003 - 22:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 31 July 2003 - 22:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by hobbes@31 July 2003 - 21:17
<!--QuoteBegin-MagicNakor@31 July 2003 - 13:50
I&#39;m sorry to inform you that this does not give me chills for sure. Oddly enough, it reminded me of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I&#39;m certain that wasn&#39;t its original intent, but there you go.

:ninja:
The parallel escapes me, completely. Maybe both sets of civilians killed, were victims of actions undertaken by their governments, but that seems specious.


Your comment is very out of character, so I assume you were responding to the emotional manipulation the poster and his link were attempting to force on you. I can&#39;t help but be a little disappointed. You should direct your response to the poster, not the victims.


As for my response, it does not fill me with sadness, but a terrible rage.
Hello Hobbes,

The mind is a strange organ. Unexpected associations can be conjured up.

Your feelings of rage surprised me. You did not explain the cause of your rage. Did you mean the use of the atomic bomb against civilians or the aeroplanes flying into the towers?

Edit: The manipulation or something else[/b][/quote]
Nigel,

I see no need to clarify my post, its&#39; meaning is obvious, and you know it.

I see an obvious personal jab at me, please return to the high road. In fact, I will be sure to join you there. ;)


As for Magic,

Your response should have read, "It was a terrible event, but I sort of object to being manipulated into stock response, which was your (sampsons&#39;) intent". This is the intent I saw on your part, through your words. I saw no need for your, "Ya you guys did it, too- remember the A-Bombs". Sometimes if we collect our thoughts before we shoot back, we can be more effective. (Trust me, I&#39;ve traveled this road before).

It does you no credit to continue with "the entire event has been grossly manipulated by the US Government". What the government did "after the fact" has no bearing on the event or on the emotional impact that it had on US citizens.

That link was actually the first time I have seen people clinging to windows and jumping. Did you see how many were hanging out? So many must have jumped to death, right on camera. I&#39;m glad we don&#39;t show that stuff here.

chalkmongoose
07-31-2003, 11:24 PM
"This Will Give Ya Chills For Sure"
Oddly enough, I was falling asleep. From the minute I turned it on I knew what it would be about. I closed the link around when they started showing pixelated images of the WTC on 9/11.
And call me a bastard for DARING to fall asleep during such an emotional roller-coaster of a movie, but I live in NYC... And the amount of crap that we&#39;ve gone through is so unbelievable that this sort of thing doesn&#39;t even chill me anymore.
The government has raped us dry... And left us to bleed, infected with STDs.
Our mayor is a short, stumpy, lumpy idiot of a man who loves to see just how many liberties he can remove, and how many taxes he can raise.
And I won&#39;t even start about our beloved Govnah&#39;.

thewizeard
07-31-2003, 11:24 PM
Ordinarily, the development of loving-kindness and compassion occurs when an individual sees someone suffering. When an individual develops the wish to liberate that being from the experience of suffering, this is compassion. Knowing that all beings wish to obtain happiness, and wanting to give them happiness, this is loving-kindness

I also see people suffering, all around the world. I see it in your &#39;rage&#39;and I feel it could consume you Hobbes. Certainly it was not meant as a &#39;jab&#39; at you. If you had not seen that link you would have felt less enraged at this moment than you do now.

I believe all life is sacred, be it microbe or a human being. My point was more directed towards an understanding of your emotions. Every action creates a reaction and so a circle of events unfold that can become self perpetuating. Someone has to break that circle. I don&#39;t believe that those thoughts that were propagated in that film will help; if we want to live peacefully together.

We wil always be subject to natural catastrophies, there is not all that much we can do about that. We can in a small way help to create a more compassionate climate for ourselves and our children, by caring for each other and encouraging positive thought patterns. A good friend will point out the negative thoughts.

edit: a couple of spelling mistakes.

DarkBlizzard
07-31-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by kAb@31 July 2003 - 16:55
i thought it was good, up until the &#39;in your face&#39; comments like "THIS COULD BE YOUR SISTER" and shit like that. it would&#39;ve been fine without the words.

but for those of you who are discrespecting the U.S. and in effect mocking the sept. 11 attacks, FUCK YOU.
I agree with kAb, if you are going to disrepect the US, FUCK YOU
The US made a free country and all of your countries did the same because you know you love freedom. The US has saved almost all of your ass&#39;s before in wars. If someone hits our tallest building with a freaking civilian plane, we&#39;re going to attack them. We got good reasons to. And even if 9-11 didnt happen Iraq and Afganistan still should have been attacked before they have terrorists. I wonder why Saddam is running a little like a little pus if he isnt scared of the US. I know why&#33; Because he knows we&#39;re gonna kill him, or capture him and get all the infomation we can and then send him to court and have his ass killed that way. We still havent got Saddam or Osama but they are 2 people in a world of 6 billion. We&#39;ll get them sooner or later. Hitler wasnt captured right after the Nazi&#39;s fell , so i dont think you should think we have to find saddam or osama right away. The 1st thing i thought about was 9-11. After about the 2nd or 3rd sentence. And if your not American you probably dont care since your country wasnt hit wit a plane&#33; So if you dont care, then Fuck You. Guess who else is going to be set free...... Liberia&#33; They didnt play any big roll in 9-11 but we know they have terrorist&#39;s and harm there people so we&#39;re freeing them as well.

kAb
07-31-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by DarkBlizzard+31 July 2003 - 15:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DarkBlizzard @ 31 July 2003 - 15:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kAb@31 July 2003 - 16:55
i thought it was good, up until the &#39;in your face&#39; comments like "THIS COULD BE YOUR SISTER" and shit like that. it would&#39;ve been fine without the words.

but for those of you who are discrespecting the U.S. and in effect mocking the sept. 11 attacks, FUCK YOU.
I agree with kAb, if you are going to disrepect the US, FUCK YOU
The US made a free country and all of your countries did the same because you know you love freedom. The US has saved almost all of your ass&#39;s before in wars. If someone hits our tallest building with a freaking civilian plane, we&#39;re going to attack them. We got good reasons to. And even if 9-11 didnt happen Iraq and Afganistan still should have been attacked before they have terrorists. I wonder why Saddam is running a little like a little pus if he isnt scared of the US. I know why&#33; Because he knows we&#39;re gonna kill him, or capture him and get all the infomation we can and then send him to court and have his ass killed that way. We still havent got Saddam or Osama but they are 2 people in a world of 6 billion. We&#39;ll get them sooner or later. Hitler wasnt captured right after the Nazi&#39;s fell , so i dont think you should think we have to find saddam or osama right away. The 1st thing i thought about was 9-11. After about the 2nd or 3rd sentence. And if your not American you probably dont care since your country wasnt hit wit a plane&#33; So if you dont care, then Fuck You. Guess who else is going to be set free...... Liberia&#33; They didnt play any big roll in 9-11 but we know they have terrorist&#39;s and harm there people so we&#39;re freeing them as well. [/b][/quote]
encore encore :)

(but hitler died in 1945)

MagicNakor
07-31-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@31 July 2003 - 23:55
As for Magic,

Your response should have read, "It was a terrible event, but I sort of object to being manipulated into stock response, which was your (sampsons&#39;) intent". This is the intent I saw on your part, through your words. I saw no need for your, "Ya you guys did it, too- remember the A-Bombs". Sometimes if we collect our thoughts before we shoot back, we can be more effective. (Trust me, I&#39;ve traveled this road before).

It does you no credit to continue with "the entire event has been grossly manipulated by the US Government". What the government did "after the fact" has no bearing on the event or on the emotional impact that it had on US citizens.

That link was actually the first time I have seen people clinging to windows and jumping. Did you see how many were hanging out? So many must have jumped to death, right on camera. I&#39;m glad we don&#39;t show that stuff here.
I never said "Ya you guys did it, too- remember the A-Bombs." When I was going through school, the Great Wars, Hiroshima and the phrase never forget were intertwined. In fact, one couldn&#39;t learn about them without having that phrase show up. Perhaps it&#39;s changed now. Perhaps never forget is now associated with more recent events. However, you&#39;re reading far too much into what I said, and insinuating statements that I did not make, nor intended to.

The manipulation is due to the emotional response of the US citizens, which is resonating to this day. I&#39;m not certain if the US has privacy watchdogs, or if they&#39;re ever vocal, but legislation has been tabled that wouldn&#39;t have even been considered a few years ago. Those are the political maneuverings I&#39;m referring to.

I&#39;ve seen footage of people jumping from the buildings. It was played quite often at the time, second only to the planes hitting the towers, and said towers collapsing. I think it was showing for around two months, actually, because my roommate would always be watching it.

:ninja:

hobbes
08-01-2003, 12:11 AM
Ok, I understand your association, the phrase "never forget". It would have been helpful to explain this in your first post to clarify the link of one event to the other, otherwise, it leaves the reader (me), to place his spin on the intent of your ambiguous words.

I did comment that I found your post "atypical" and now I know why.

MagicNakor
08-01-2003, 12:26 AM
I guess I&#39;m showing my age. ;) It never occurred to me that people would be confused about the link.

:ninja:

hobbes
08-01-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by nigel123@1 August 2003 - 00:24
Ordinarily, the development of loving-kindness and compassion occurs when an individual sees someone suffering. When an individual develops the wish to liberate that being from the experience of suffering, this is compassion. Knowing that all beings wish to obtain happiness, and wanting to give them happiness, this is loving-kindness

I also see people suffering, all around the world. I see it in your &#39;rage&#39;and I feel it could consume you Hobbes. Certainly it was not meant as a &#39;jab&#39; at you. If you had not seen that link you would have felt less enraged at this moment than you do now.

I believe all life is sacred, be it microbe or a human being. My point was more directed towards an understanding of your emotions. Every action creates a reaction and so a circle of events unfold that can become self perpetuating. Someone has to break that circle. I don&#39;t believe that those thoughts that were propagated in that film will help; if we want to live peacefully together.&nbsp;

We wil always be subject to natural catastrophies, there is not all that much we can do about that. We can in a small way help to create a more compassionate climate for ourselves and our children, by caring for each other and encouraging positive thought patterns. A good friend will point out the negative thoughts.

edit: a couple of spelling mistakes.
Why do I feel that there is a sign saying, "You are here" over my head.


http://www.psychoanalysis.org.uk/shrink.jpg

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Lamsey@1 August 2003 - 00:50
just defiant and unbuckled, and united in the face of tragedy. As we all should be.
We should be and we were.

Lamsey, it is almost two years since that tragedy. Must the flames of these sad emotions be constantly whipped up like an out of control forest fire in a gale force wind? I think these flames should be extinguished with the water of forgiveness.

(So to speak)

DarkBlizzard
08-01-2003, 12:53 AM
New Yorkers who had there parents or children or friends die arent going to forgive anyone. How about one of you speak to a group full of 100 of the people who lost love ones in 9-11....they will beat your ass. If people wanna talk about it, then let them&#33;

hobbes
08-01-2003, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by nigel123+1 August 2003 - 01:50--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 1 August 2003 - 01:50)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lamsey@1 August 2003 - 00:50
just defiant and unbuckled, and united in the face of tragedy. As we all should be.
We should be and we were.

Lamsey, it is almost two years since that tragedy. Must the flames of these sad emotions be constantly whipped up like an out of control forest fire in a gale force wind? I think these flames should be extinguished with the water of forgiveness.

(So to speak) [/b][/quote]
Nigel,

When some kicks down your door and kills your wife and children, then come and talk to us.

2 years later, would you embrace the murders and talk about love and forgiveness? Would you take umbrage at someone who said, "Nigel, it has been 2 years, get over it and move on&#33;".

Some scars stay forever.

Keikan
08-01-2003, 01:01 AM
Someone jumped out from like 45 floors high?

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@1 August 2003 - 02:29

Why do I feel that there is a sign saying, "You are here" over my head.


http://www.psychoanalysis.org.uk/shrink.jpg
I am not quite sure what you mean by that.

I have just replied to Lamsey, and I feel that the inititial outrage should have subsided a little by now. Please don&#39;t feel personally attacked.
If I had not felt your opinions or feelings had any substance, I would just have ignored them..

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 01:19 AM
We all lost something very special on that day. Yes the scars will remain. But nothing will bring them back.
I have also lost some very special people in my life. So I do know how it feels. It hurts.

hobbes
08-01-2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by nigel123@1 August 2003 - 02:19
We all lost something very special on that day. Yes the scars will remain. But nothing will bring them back.
I have also lost some very special people in my life. So I do know how it feels. It hurts.
Nothing can bring them back, but if I can kill those that did it, I will pursue that option, if only, that others don&#39;t have to go through the same.

We have all lost someone special, but if we can prevent someone else from suffering the same by elimatining the source, we are obliged.

Forgiving Bin Laden is pointless, as he has no regret, and would do it again.

You must not only crush the guilty, but set an example for those that would follow in his footsteps. Sometimes you must be hard.

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 01:52 AM
Then you should first make a list of all these terrorist people, their families, offspring, all their friends and their offspring, because that&#39;s how far you will have to go to eliminate them all. They too will have revenge burning in their hearts. Where is the end? Why not just destroy all mankind in one go. You will be bound to get the relatively few guilty ones then.

Is this really the answer to our problems? I mean, you see revenge just won&#39;t work?

Edit. I am going to leave this topic now, I have read all the posts, and taken notice off your feelings. I wish I could have convinced you, that the way to peace and harmony will bear more fruit than the road you are following. No doubt we will cross each others paths in some other topic.

Take care

hobbes
08-01-2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by nigel123@1 August 2003 - 02:52
Then you should first make a list of all these terrorist people, their families, offspring, all their friends and their offspring, because that&#39;s how far you will have to go to eliminate them all. They too will have revenge burning in their hearts. Where is the end? Why not just destroy all mankind in one go. You will be bound to get the relatively few guilty ones then.

Is this really the answer to our problems? I mean, you see revenge just won&#39;t work?
Bin Laden will attack us again, unless killed. No amount of forgiveness will change this.

So, if someone killed your wife, you would forgive them, as the vengence of the offspring would just perpetuate the violence and nullify your temporay justice, by punishing the violator.

Why do we punish crimes then? The remaining offspring will just execute justice, right?

You must not only kill the perpetrators, but those who directly or indirectly allowed him to act.

Goodwill toward man is the luxury of the blessed.


After all, didn&#39;t the Christian God kill everyone on the planet for their transgressions (Noahs&#39; ark). If God is not a good role-model, the who is? Thanks to God for showing us how to deal with "bad people".

myfiles3000
08-01-2003, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by Lamsey@31 July 2003 - 23:50
If you want to hear a truely great response to the events of Sept. 11, listen to the lyrics of Bon Jovi&#39;s Undivided:



That was my brother lost in the rubble
That was my sister lost in the crush
That was our mothers, those were our children
That was our fathers, that was each one of us
A million prayers to God above
A million tears make an ocean of

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you

I found spirit, they couldn&#39;t ruin it
I found courage in the smoke and dust
I found faith in the songs you silenced
Deep down it&#39;s ringing out in each of us
Yeah... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

How many hands? How many hearts?
How many dreams been torn apart?
Enough, enough... the time has come to rise back as

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

Undivided.
Undivided.

One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

Not overly sentimental, not overly confrontational, just defiant and unbuckled, and united in the face of tragedy. As we all should be.
sorry lamsey, but this is a collection of BS statements that mean nothing when you break them down. aka propoganda.

myfiles3000
08-01-2003, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by nigel123@1 August 2003 - 00:24
I believe all life is sacred, be it microbe or a human being.
so if ALL life is sacred, is human life more sacred than that of a wombat?
you don&#39;t have children, do you? or, do you?

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by myfiles3000+1 August 2003 - 06:48--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (myfiles3000 &#064; 1 August 2003 - 06:48)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-nigel123@1 August 2003 - 00:24
I believe all life is sacred, be it microbe or a human being.
so if ALL life is sacred, is human life more sacred than that of a wombat?
you don&#39;t have children, do you? or, do you?[/b][/quote]
@ Yes I do have chidren.

@ All life is sacred.

When you read &#39;all life is sacred&#39; that means that all life has an equal right to live.

What&#39;s the matter, your not a wombat hater?

DarkBlizzard
08-01-2003, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Keikan@31 July 2003 - 20:01
Someone jumped out from like 45 floors high?
Yes, more than 45 floors high,on 9-11 lots of people did....they went to the windows to get away from fire, which would be a really painful death so they jumped out.

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 08:25 AM
Yes they did&#33; I saw the whole story unfold on television. I shall never forget it. I also saw the pictures of the gassed mothers, clutching their equally dead babies, in Iraq many years ago. It is nearly impossible to comprehend, that humans do these things to each other, but they do.

sampson
08-01-2003, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@31 July 2003 - 21:11
It was the constant "Never Forget." It&#39;s a phrase that&#39;s been applied to both Great Wars, the atomic bombing of Japan (although not the firebombing of Tokyo, which is rather confusing), and more recently, the Holocaust.

I wasn&#39;t commenting on the victims at all, but, as you said, the flagrant attempt at emotional manipulation. Perhaps if sampson had had something in his post than "This Will Give Ya Chills For Sure" and a link, there would&#39;ve been more to respond to. And while I have sympathy for the victims and their friends and family, the event entire has been grossly manipulated by the United States government.

Or perhaps I just cannot have the emotional response that is trying to be provoked. My roommate, who is American, was certainly more distraught about the entire event than I was.

:ninja:
first off, when i posted that link, i didnt expect this kind of response and thats why there isnt any text. secondly, i dont know how you can say that the us govt. has manipulated the situation, or that the filmmaker was trying to manipulate my emotions. the US has always said that it will not negotiate with terrorists and that any terrorist act will be considered an act of war. they have pecked at and annoyed us and smaller countries for years.(its like a kid in school(sadaam) picking on someone until they finally do something to really piss them off and the other kid(usa) turns around and knocks the shit out of em) as for manipulating my emotions, were you getting ready for work and saw this live on tv? was it your country and country men/women that were under attack? i think not. my emotions ran deep. I SAW RED that morning&#33; there was no time for the govt or any filmmaker to decide my emotions for me. i support EVERY decision the us govt has made in this campaign, i support EVERY troop of EVERY country thats fighting to ride the world of this crazy fuck, and i support my president. GO BUSH&#33; i have a million other opinions on the subject, but i guess we&#39;ll go one at a time.

PLEASE DONT CLOSE THIS POST. WE&#39;RE NOT FLAMING, WE&#39;RE VENTING :)

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 09:12 AM
Sampson, it was not only the USA that was attacked on 9.11, it was our &#39;western&#39; culture. It happend on your soil. Buildings can be rebuilt but all those lives will never be returned.
My point is that killing each other will not solve the situation. It just set the scene for the revenge attack. It really is a vicious circle.

Barbarossa
08-01-2003, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by DarkBlizzard@1 August 2003 - 00:53
New Yorkers who had there parents or children or friends die arent going to forgive anyone. How about one of you speak to a group full of 100 of the people who lost love ones in 9-11....they will beat your ass. If people wanna talk about it, then let them&#33;
Funny, that sounds alot like the attitude of a fanatical terrorist... :huh:

Barbarossa
08-01-2003, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@1 August 2003 - 02:06
After all, didn&#39;t the Christian God kill everyone on the planet for their transgressions (Noahs&#39; ark). If God is not a good role-model, the who is? Thanks to God for showing us how to deal with "bad people".
Well, technically the Jewish God.

As someone pointed out in another thread, in the intermission between the Old Testament and the New Testament God seemed to go through a personality realignment, from a vindictive small minded egotist, to a caring sharing family guy...

sampson
08-01-2003, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by nigel123@1 August 2003 - 09:12
Sampson, it was not only the USA that was attacked on 9.11, it was our &#39;western&#39; culture. It happend on your soil. Buildings can be rebuilt but all those lives will never be returned.
My point is that killing each other will not solve the situation. It just set the scene for the revenge attack. It really is a vicious circle.
Youve gotta gimmie more than that for me to be able to respond. Whats youre solution?

sampson
08-01-2003, 09:32 AM
On a lighter note

http://www.flowgo.com/flowgo2_view.cfm?page_id=63418

and for anyone whos looking for any pic ever to do with 9/11.......

http://www.penttbomb.net/Archive.html

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 10:29 AM
First I can&#39;t change what has happened.

However, there is a basic practice which is suitable for everyone bacause it is so simple. Being simple, it is deep and beneficial; benificial because its simplicity means there will be few mistakes. We begin with loving-kindness, working at the level of our present understanding and with our present conception of the world, by trying to imagine the nicest, purest form of happiness we know. This will vary from person to person but it does not matter we just think of the very best thing and as soon as we have formed it in the imagination we share it with all beings, praying that they may have this happiness equally. Not to think of ourselves but just about others, wishing them this relative happiness we think so nice. this is the first step. It makes little sense in the ultimate but it is, on our level, a start.

The next step is to call to mind any friend or acquaintence who is happier or better off than we are and just try to be happy for them. appreciate their achievement. Think of friends first because it is easier. Then do the same, but for someone who is not so close to us. When we can do this we move on to someone who is not very kind to us and try to appreciate, pray for, their happiness. Then progress to someone who is really cruel to us, who really hates us and finally to someone that we really hate. If they hate us, it is minor; if we hate them it is major because our hatred makes things very hard -there are many strong feelings to overcome

You see that my solution requires a change in the way we think. We need to work on ourselves.

MagicNakor
08-01-2003, 10:45 AM
If you don&#39;t understand that manipulation is taking place, I&#39;m never going to be able to convince you.

Strange how the government of North Korea has been labelled a "terrorist state," yet I&#39;m seeing large efforts to get multilateral talks started again. This is a rather interesting list I found (compiled from the CIA Factbook and the Library of Congress Country Study):


Nation States Sponsoring, Sheltering, Financing, Supporting Terrorist Networks

Syria
Iran

Reduced Threat

Afghanistan
Iraq

States providing or allowing finance, shelter, manpower, training, equipment and other support

Cuba
Indonesia
North Korea
Soviet Union and Russia (I&#39;m not sure why they use Soviet Union, other than it&#39;s easier to write out than all the bloody satellite nations that formed after its collapse)
Saudi Arabia

States where government policies* have allowed terrorists freedom to operate

Canada
France
Germany
Japan
United Kingdom
United States

*Government policies that allow terrorists freedom to operate are found in countries with liberal immigration policies that are spinning out of control, countries with organized crime influences that bring in terrorist financial operations and countries where tolerance, affirmative action and multiculturalism are deemed politically correct, are preached excessively and have overwhelmed common sense and national interests.

Indeed, I was getting ready for work and saw it live on TV. I actually woke up to it, because New York is a few time zones ahead of me.

If you support every decision the United States government has made, that&#39;s your modus opernadi. Understand that a large number of people do not.

:ninja:

lynx
08-01-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by sampson@1 August 2003 - 09:53
first off, when i posted that link, i didnt expect this kind of response and thats why there isnt any text.&nbsp; secondly, i dont know how you can say that the us govt. has manipulated the situation, or that the filmmaker was trying to manipulate my emotions.&nbsp; the US has always said that it will not negotiate with terrorists and that any terrorist act will be considered an act of war.&nbsp; they have pecked at and annoyed us and smaller countries for years.(its like a kid in school(sadaam) picking on someone until they finally do something to really piss them off and the other kid(usa) turns around and knocks the shit out of em)&nbsp; as for manipulating my emotions, were you getting ready for work and saw this live on tv?&nbsp; was it your country and country men/women that were under attack?&nbsp; i think not.&nbsp; my emotions ran deep.&nbsp; I SAW RED that morning&#33;&nbsp; there was no time for the govt or any filmmaker to decide my emotions for me.&nbsp; i support EVERY decision the us govt has made in this campaign, i support EVERY troop of EVERY country thats fighting to ride the world of this crazy fuck, and i support my president. GO BUSH&#33;&nbsp; i have a million other opinions on the subject, but i guess we&#39;ll go one at a time.

PLEASE DONT CLOSE THIS POST. WE&#39;RE NOT FLAMING, WE&#39;RE VENTING :)
I really think you need to read the filmmaker&#39;s &#39;background&#39; information, you will see that he IS actually trying to manipulate your emotions.

You should take a step back and try to separate your (understandable) revulsion of what happened that day from this sort of diatribe against everything that isn&#39;t american.

It really does no good to call anyone who try&#39;s to promote a different point of view a coward. Are you going to call all the millions of people who demonstrated against the Vietnam war cowards? Because that&#39;s what happened then, and the same thing is happening now. If we don&#39;t agree with your viewpoint then we should keep our mouths shut? Nice to see such support of your principles of free speech.

You need to see that this sort of article actually reduces your democratic ideals rather than enhancing them.

hobbes
08-01-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by barbarossa+1 August 2003 - 10:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (barbarossa @ 1 August 2003 - 10:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-DarkBlizzard@1 August 2003 - 00:53
New Yorkers who had there parents or children or friends die arent going to forgive anyone. How about one of you speak to a group full of 100 of the people who lost love ones in 9-11....they will beat your ass. If people wanna talk about it, then let them!
Funny, that sounds alot like the attitude of a fanatical terrorist...![/b][/quote]


Yes waiter, I'd like one order of "flaming platitude", please!

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@1 August 2003 - 04:06



After all, didn&#39;t the Christian God kill everyone on the planet for their transgressions (Noahs&#39; ark).&nbsp; If God is not a good role-model, the who is?&nbsp; Thanks to God for showing us how to deal with "bad people".


- DUTIES TOWARDS GOD -

(1) You shall have no other gods before me.

(2) You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love me and keep my commandments.

(3) You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

(4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labour and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

- DUTIES TOWARDS OUR NEIGHBOUR -

(5) Honour your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

(6) YOU SHALL NOT MURDER

(7) You shall not commit adultery.

(8) You shall not steal.

(9) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

(10) You shall not covet your neighbour&#39;s house, you shall not covet your neighbour&#39;s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour&#39;s."
____________________________________________________________________
I am not a Christian Hobbes. I have read the bible though. According to the bible God did not kill everyone on this planet. Later he gave Moses the ten commandments to live by. You are conveniently forgetting one of these commandments:(6) Possible infringment of the third.


If you break one of His commandments then you break them all.

If you are going to use God as your role model then you should at least be accurate.

TheDave
08-01-2003, 03:28 PM
2) You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love me and keep my commandments.

jesus&#33;&#33; gods a bit of a miserable git sometimes. neway g2g before i miss the train to hell

hobbes
08-01-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by nigel123+1 August 2003 - 16:14--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 1 August 2003 - 16:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@1 August 2003 - 04:06



After all, didn&#39;t the Christian God kill everyone on the planet for their transgressions (Noahs&#39; ark). If God is not a good role-model, the who is? Thanks to God for showing us how to deal with "bad people".


- DUTIES TOWARDS GOD -

(1) You shall have no other gods before me.

(2) You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love me and keep my commandments.

(3) You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

(4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labour and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

- DUTIES TOWARDS OUR NEIGHBOUR -

(5) Honour your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

(6) YOU SHALL NOT MURDER

(7) You shall not commit adultery.

(8) You shall not steal.

(9) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

(10) You shall not covet your neighbour&#39;s house, you shall not covet your neighbour&#39;s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour&#39;s."
____________________________________________________________________
I am not a Christian Hobbes. I have read the bible though. According to the bible God did not kill everyone on this planet. Later he gave Moses the ten commandments to live by. You are conveniently forgetting one of these commandments:(6) Possible infringment of the third.


If you break one of His commandments then you break them all.

If you are going to use God as your role model then you should at least be accurate.[/b][/quote]
Notice that the last paragraph was offset from the main body. It was a meant to be read "tongue in cheek". Not literally. The last 2 sentences were those of a child, done purposefully to contrast it with my typical style.

I am agnostic, not Christian, so I neither know nor follow the 10 Commandments. I was just saying in an offhand manner that if killing is the solution chosen by a God many follow, then it should be good enough for little &#39;ole me.

So he tells us not to kill, yet he does it. I prefer leaders who guide by example and not leaders who guide by, "do what I say, not what I do".

It was my understanding that every single human died during the great flood, except for the 5 on board. Is this wrong? Even if the Earth contained only 10,000 people, that is 99.99% of the population exterminated.

The flood wasn&#39;t some sort of snap decision either, it took over 100 years to build the ark, this was a clear case of premeditated murder. :o

thewizeard
08-01-2003, 09:41 PM
:o

So you were not impressed with my meditation on loving kindness?

hobbes
08-01-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by nigel123@1 August 2003 - 22:41
:o

So you were not impressed with my meditation on loving kindness?
I think the philosophy is fine.

Rat Faced
08-02-2003, 12:01 AM
The flood wasn&#39;t some sort of snap decision either, it took over 100 years to build the ark, this was a clear case of premeditated murder.&nbsp;


Really?

Then even if Noah&#39;s missus was 40 when she had the kids, they would have been 60 before they had a chance to propagate?

That assuming old man Noah started building the ark before she was born....


THATS a miracle in itself ;)

hobbes
08-02-2003, 12:37 AM
Rat,

Remember that Noah lived to be 500 years old, ( http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/noah.html ) so that even though God told him about the flood 120 years beforehand ( http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c005.html ) and the flood persisted for 13 months, Noah still considers the whole "Ark thing" as a "phase he went through".

Lived 500 years and bore only 3 children, talk about being a man of God.


Correction: 8 people survived the flood. From the same sources above: "The Bible clearly teaches that all flesh died...every man (Genesis 7:21). Genesis 9:1 confirms that only Noah&#39;s family was saved and that every person living today is descended from his family. Today&#39;s news is often filled with terrible disasters which kill hundreds or even thousands of people. But, can you imagine a disaster so terrible that only 8 people in the whole world survived. Its true, Noah and his wife, his three sons, and their wives were the only people saved from the largest flood of all time".

MagicNakor
08-02-2003, 01:00 AM
Don&#39;t forget that people lived to very great ages. ;) I&#39;ve heard reasoning that it&#39;s because they were closer to God genetically, and thus blessed with longevity.

:ninja:

hobbes
08-02-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@2 August 2003 - 02:00
Don&#39;t forget that people lived to very great ages. ;) I&#39;ve heard reasoning that it&#39;s because they were closer to God genetically, and thus blessed with longevity.

:ninja:
And that is why he killed each and everyone of them in the flood? I&#39;d hate to get that close to God, thanks.

By the way, if God has genetics, then he is corporeal. Subject to the laws of physics and the proper functioning of billions of functioning molecules. In other words, he would be mortal.

It might be fair to say early humans had genomes closer to the original template he designed.

sampson
08-02-2003, 01:19 AM
Uh-oh, this turned into the &#39;defining religion&#39; thread, or what I like to call the never-ending thread :)

Lighten up guys&#33; I just thought it was a nice video clip :D

MagicNakor
08-02-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by hobbes+2 August 2003 - 02:06--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 2 August 2003 - 02:06)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MagicNakor@2 August 2003 - 02:00
Don&#39;t forget that people lived to very great ages. ;) I&#39;ve heard reasoning that it&#39;s because they were closer to God genetically, and thus blessed with longevity.

:ninja:
And that is why he killed each and everyone of them in the flood? I&#39;d hate to get that close to God, thanks.

By the way, if God has genetics, then he is corporeal. Subject to the laws of physics and the proper functioning of billions of functioning molecules. In other words, he would be mortal.

It might be fair to say early humans had genomes closer to the original template he designed. [/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t know. ;) It&#39;s just what someone who was trying to justify the 900+ years a great many of those people lived told me when I asked about it.

:ninja:

hobbes
08-02-2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by sampson@2 August 2003 - 02:19
Uh-oh, this turned into the &#39;defining religion&#39; thread, or what I like to call the never-ending thread :)

Lighten up guys&#33; I just thought it was a nice video clip :D
No, the exchange you are witnessing is just "casual banter". Nobody is being serious about anything today. Casual Fridays, if you will.

hobbes
08-02-2003, 02:27 AM
Yes Magic,

The answer you got is quite similar to the party line I got from my "believer" friends.

J'Pol
08-02-2003, 11:23 AM
But itīs silly.

If everyone starts from the same genetic pattern it cant possibly dilute. Therefore number of generations is irrelevant.

Get a dictionary for your friends. Remove every page except the one that contains the word metaphor (in the M section I believe), highlight said word.

Then tell them to read the definition and feckin grow up.

Pillar of salt indeed. What does that even mean.

Lamsey
08-02-2003, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by JPaul@2 August 2003 - 12:23
Pillar of salt indeed. What does that even mean.
I could give you a definition... ;) :P

J'Pol
08-02-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Lamsey+2 August 2003 - 16:46--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lamsey @ 2 August 2003 - 16:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JPaul@2 August 2003 - 12:23
Pillar of salt indeed. What does that even mean.
I could give you a definition... ;) :P [/b][/quote]
Please.

Lamsey
08-02-2003, 11:32 PM
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~shand/images/Salt_pillar_med.JPG
Salt Pillars, Dead Sea, Israel

J'Pol
08-02-2003, 11:59 PM
Cool.

thewizeard
08-03-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Lamsey@3 August 2003 - 01:32
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~shand/images/Salt_pillar_med.JPG
Salt Pillars, Dead Sea, Israel
Is that Lot&#39;s wife or just lots of salt?

Makes one realise what a beautiful planet we live on.

sampson
08-03-2003, 06:48 AM
Why is it called the Dead Sea?
Sounds kinda creepy, doesn&#39;t it? It&#39;s called the Dead Sea because nothing lives in it. It is some of the saltiest water anywhere in the world, almost six times as salty as the ocean&#33; There&#39;s no seaweed or plants of any kind in or around the water. There are no fish or any kind of swimming, squirming creatures living in or near the water. As a matter of fact, what you&#39;ll see on the shores of the Sea is white, crystals of salt covering EVERYTHING (check out the picture at left). And this is no ordinary table salt, either. The salts found in the Dead Sea are mineral salts , just like you find in the oceans of the world, only in extreme concentrations. The water in the Dead Sea is deadly to living things. Fish accidentally swimming into the waters from one of the several freshwater streams that feed the Sea are killed instantly, their bodies quickly coated with a preserving layer of salt crystals and then tossed onto shore by the wind and waves. Brutal&#33;
The guy to the left is actually floating in the Dead Sea. "But, hey, I thought you said the Dead Sea was DEADLY&#33;" Not to us. Humans are remarkably adaptable. We can swim in the Dead Sea, just like we can swim in the ocean. Well, people don&#39;t really "swim" in the Dead Sea - they just "hang out". That&#39;s what&#39;s so cool about the Dead Sea. Because of the extremely high concentration of dissolved mineral salts in the water it&#39;s density is way more than that of plain old fresh water. What this means is our bodies are more bouyant in the Dead Sea - so you bob like a cork. In fact, people are so bouyant in this water, it makes it kinda tough to actually swim. Most people like to just kick back in the water and read. It almost looks as though this guy is sitting on an air mattress that has sunk below the surface, but he&#39;s not. He&#39;s really just floating, without having to hold is feet in that position&#33; If you think this is easy, try floating like this in a freshwater swimming pool.
B)

hobbes
08-03-2003, 05:31 PM
You have a vivid imagination. All I see is one pissed off Burt.

ultimatejester
08-07-2003, 06:49 AM
y does it say that the site iz being updated

MagicNakor
08-07-2003, 07:09 AM
:huh:

:ninja:

echidna
08-07-2003, 07:48 AM
i think noam chomsky summed up the situation pretty well the day after

Originally posted by Noam Chomksy 12:07pm Wed Sep 12 &#39;01+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Noam Chomksy 12:07pm Wed Sep 12 &#39;01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>MIT Professor and dissident intellectual Noam Chomsky comments on Tuesday&#39;s attacks on a Zmag.org forum.

Quick reaction.

Today&#39;s attacks were major atrocities. In terms of number of victims they do not reach the level of many others, for example, Clinton&#39;s bombing of the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies and probably killing tens of thousands of people (no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily come to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors, secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to lead to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for undermining civil liberties and internal freedom.

The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of ideas about "missile defense." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US, including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to launch a missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. There are innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But today&#39;s events will, nonetheless, be used to increase the pressure to develop these systems and put them into place. "Defense" is a thin cover for plans for militarization of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest arguments will carry some weight among a frightened public. In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely US actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared to be before the latest atrocities.

As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror; we can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means making an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we choose the latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the words of Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into affairs of the region is unmatched after many years of distinguished reporting. Describing "The wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated people," he writes that "this is not the war of democracy versus terror that the world will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia paid and uniformed by America&#39;s Israeli ally hacking and raping and murdering their way through refugee camps." And much more. Again, we have a choice: we may try to understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much worse lies ahead.[/b]
there is much more considered opinion here (http://www.ainfos.ca/01/sep/ainfos00263.html) and here (http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm)
foolish arrogant americans give me chills for sure
<!--QuoteBegin-Haile Selassie
Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.[/quote]

evilbagpuss
08-09-2003, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by echidna
foolish arrogant americans give me chills for sure

They always tend to write in blocks of text with no line breaks as well. Over the last few years I have come to the conclusion that this &#39;style&#39; is the product of either stupidity, youth, madness or all 3. I rarely read such posts now.

One point about 9/11 though... using it as a cynical excuse to do what you want to whom you want... Now thats disrespect.

@Darkblizzard

Ever heard of the "Not In Our Name" movement? Are you going to yell FUCK YOU at them too? I mean they were against the war in Iraq too, which according to you is disrespectful... yes?

They, unlike you actually lost family members in 9/11 and they, unlike you, do not support attacking people who had nothing to do with 9/11. I guess they dont want the death of their loved ones to be exploited for cynical oil driven motives. How disrespectful of them....

In conclusion they, unlike you, have dignity and common sense.

Arm
08-12-2003, 06:07 AM
The Blood of Heroes web site is temporarily down while we upgrade our server.

Please try again at a later time.

Thank you.

What the hell is so shocking about that? :unsure:

j2k4
08-12-2003, 01:47 PM
I don&#39;t know, but if it&#39;s chilling, where&#39;s the problem with just throwing on a light jacket or something? :huh: