Some thoughts about invites to high level trackers

[The Wanderer]

I noticed here at giveaway section that some members who offered high level invites specified in their requirements that they are sorry but can't risk giving their invites to the FST new comers.

So the credentials this user come with are not that important? If a user is a member of 3 trackers and they have a ratio above 2 (in terms of hundred GB) is not worthy to be trust?

A user is not worthy because they have 0 reputation and only 100 spam posts at FST? I am sorry to hear that some members here think that way.

I think this policy of inviting only good friends although having a highest probability to be the safest solution for getting new members, it is not the best solution for the healthiness of a tracker. I have good friends I invited to good trackers who in the end didn't managed to be the best members of said trackers. They simply couldn't "integrate" within the requirements of the trackers.

I think trackers like FTN or FSC or TT or whatever high level tracker needs to open up and bring some fresh and healthy blood or else will stagnate and eventually will die.

For example... I keep reading about FTN here and on other forums. I am not a FTN member and I can say anything good or bad about this tracker, but it seems that there are certain members who are not so happy with what's going on there. And I am not talking only about community, I keep reading posts that say there are not many leechers there.
Maybe it's not a general feeeling, but only a vocal minority. Maybe also other trackers have the same situation, not just FTN.

On iTS (where I am member)for example, in forums you can read almost everyday posts complaining about the lack of leechers.

On the other side just take a look at revott. They had free signup not long ago and although some people moaned and bitched that it lost its level and it will become another unworthy tracker, the site is thriving and is a complete success.

iPlay, torrentleech, TBytes, HDbits are living proofs of what means a successful tracker.

I have all the respect in world for the trackers who know what is best for them.

[stoi]

I dont think its so much about getting higher on that list, Oink freaked a lot of staff out (me included, i actually left BCG for a month or so till the heat died down).

so atm its keeping things nice and tight, hoping no one from the powers that be get in, staff hand pick members from other trackers and other forums like this one (obviously the risk is still there but a lot less chance than with open signups, or invites for all PU and above).

Its a risky business being a tracker owner/sysop, and yeah some get paranoid (im not a paranoid person by nature, but when Oink happened i was a lot) so you cant really blame them for tightening up.

Ok some good potential members might not be able to get in, but hopefully the powers that be cant either.

[Aeyen]

I dont think its so much about getting higher on that list, Oink freaked a lot of staff out (me included, i actually left BCG for a month or so till the heat died down).

so atm its keeping things nice and tight, hoping no one from the powers that be get in, staff hand pick members from other trackers and other forums like this one (obviously the risk is still there but a lot less chance than with open signups, or invites for all PU and above).

Its a risky business being a tracker owner/sysop, and yeah some get paranoid (im not a paranoid person by nature, but when Oink happened i was a lot) so you cant really blame them for tightening up.

Ok some good potential members might not be able to get in, but hopefully the powers that be cant either.

Agreed. Oink closing down was really a surprise.... Do you think that they'll be after RevTT too and BCG? I hope not...

[downnheavy]

you probably right
though the high level trackers you mentioned above are established and have a strong and steady group of uploaders, not to mention of the majority of the users of these trackers have seedboxes and high upload speeds.
the problem is with the new so called scene trackers that close their invites and reg on the start leaving them with a very small number of users - leechers.

[The Wanderer]

It's always great to hear the insight of the sysops/staff members. :)

I was not talking about open signups, only giving invites to trusty eventually old members. Like SCT did, TL did to talk only of a few important players here.

Not like FTN who because of few bad apples (who will always be) decided to revoke the invites. Nobody gained anything from that, members or non members. It's just a status quo.

Regarding the power that be (TPTB), I think one way or another they already know about what's going on bittorent world. In these days information is available everywhere and a secret is not so much of a secret. ;)


I dont think its so much about getting higher on that list, Oink freaked a lot of staff out (me included, i actually left BCG for a month or so till the heat died down).

so atm its keeping things nice and tight, hoping no one from the powers that be get in, staff hand pick members from other trackers and other forums like this one (obviously the risk is still there but a lot less chance than with open signups, or invites for all PU and above).

Its a risky business being a tracker owner/sysop, and yeah some get paranoid (im not a paranoid person by nature, but when Oink happened i was a lot) so you cant really blame them for tightening up.

Ok some good potential members might not be able to get in, but hopefully the powers that be cant either.

[stoi]

well the bottom line is, its their tracker so they can do what they want with it.

Our invites have been offline since before Oink, so thats not the reason for us, they were just broken so need to be re-written completely.

and there is nothing worse than scanning forums/ebay and seeing someone selling one of your invites or even accounts.

I remember once i was checking ebay for BCG accounts, and the bid was up to $160 just for 1 account with no buffer. i was like wtf.

also like downheavy mentioned, if your already a well established tracker, with a few thousand members, then you can get away with having no invites or open signups for a few months, it doesnt hurt the tracker that much.

If your a new up and coming tracker though, then it can hurt you if you close the doors to early.

[DKre8ive1]

I noticed here at giveaway section that some members who offered high level invites specified in their requirements that they are sorry but can't risk giving their invites to the FST new comers.

Well you have to understand some of the higher sites hold the inviter responsible for the invitee and its a high price to pay if they happen to invite the wrong user.


So the credentials this user come with are not that important? If a user is a member of 3 trackers and they have a ratio above 2 (in terms of hundred GB) is not worthy to be trust?

Having a big buffer or ratio is less important to the smaller sites and as for using this as proof is kind of flawed because it can be easily faked.


A user is not worthy because they have 0 reputation and only 100 spam posts at FST? I am sorry to hear that some members here think that way.

Hey I am sorry but for this you will have to blame all the lowlifes that have scammed so many users that the a reputation system had to be put in place.


I think this policy of inviting only good friends although having a highest probability to be the safest solution for getting new members, it is not the best solution for the healthiness of a tracker. I have good friends I invited to good trackers who in the end didn't managed to be the best members of said trackers. They simply couldn't "integrate" within the requirements of the trackers.

I think trackers like FTN or FSC or TT or whatever high level tracker needs to open up and bring some fresh and healthy blood or else will stagnate and eventually will die.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on this since its not about the quantity of members that make a site like FSC survive, but about the quality of its members.

Don't get me wrong I agree that sites need fresh blood now and again to keep it healthy, but the smaller and the site the less blood it needs to keep it healthy when compared to those bigger sites.


For example... I keep reading about FTN here and on other forums. I am not a FTN member and I can say anything good or bad about this tracker, but it seems that there are certain members who are not so happy with what's going on there. And I am not talking only about community, I keep reading posts that say there are not many leechers there.
Maybe it's not a general feeeling, but only a vocal minority. Maybe also other trackers have the same situation, not just FTN.

I don't see how a person can complain about there being no leechers since there is no ratio on FTN and they only have to share it back for I think only 72 hours to fit the requirement.


On iTS (where I am member)for example, in forums you can read almost everyday posts complaining about the lack of leechers.

Since I am not a member on there I have no idea what system they use so I can only make a suggestion that they use a time seeding ratio to help out with the lack of leechers then people will be less scared to grab a torrent.


On the other side just take a look at revott. They had free signup not long ago and although some people moaned and bitched that it lost its level and it will become another unworthy tracker, the site is thriving and is a complete success.

iPlay, torrentleech, TBytes, HDbits are living proofs of what means a successful tracker.

I have all the respect in world for the trackers who knows what is best for them.

Success means different things to different people especially if the creators of those sites have different goals set for there trackers. :)

[Femto]

Personally, I think the invite system is pointless. People sell them, people trade them, and people scam with them. The invite system imho is more like a gimmick. It doesn't keep cheaters out instead it keeps the people that come for the torrents out.

The best system out there is the now-open-closed-then registration. Bitsoup is living proof of this. It's been here for 3 years, it has 115,000 members and most of the torrents are still alive. To keep a site invite only is pure paranoia especially if your servers aren't hosted in the US. Bitsoup servers are hosted in Canada and they're still breathing.

Just my thoughts. :)

[The Wanderer]

Having a big buffer or ratio is less important to the smaller sites and as for using this as proof is kind of flawed because it can be easily faked.

I have to disagree with you because I didn't talk about small sites and those ratio proofs can be easily checked up if the inviter really wants to... by just asking to a link to their profile. ;)


Hey I am sorry but for this you will have to blame all the lowlifes that have scammed so many users that the a reputation system had to be put in place.

I didn't complain in any way about the reputation system, far from me that thought. ;)

On another forum where I'm old member, I saw a member who build an reputation giving away invites/accounts and being helpful only to scam somebody at the right time of a high level invite. ;)


Since I am not a member on there I have no idea what system they use so I can only make a suggestion that you use a time seeding ratio to help out with the lack of leechers then people will be less scared to grab a torrent.

I was speaking generally and not about me, sorry if I gave you that impression. ;)


Success means different things to different people especially if the creators of those sites have different goals set for there trackers.

I agree and I respect that, I was only talking from the regular members point of view. :)

Again, it's always nice to hear an opinion from a sysop/staff member's point of view.

Thank you. :)

[fsephie]

Well I cannot speak for everyone else, but I would like to think I have a good process for giving out invites.

1. How did I even begin to consider this person for an invite? is this a giveaway thread of mine (a) or is this just some random guy asking (b)?

If A:

2. Did they follow the rules? I rarely ever ask for a speedtest (sites that are extremely fast might require higher speeds). Sincere enough? Generally if a person will at least put in enough effort to make a coherent, one or two paragraph statement they pass this point. You're weeding out so many people at this step it's ridiculous.

3. Where does this person post? What is the makeup of his posts? Are the posts made frequently or is this a once a week poster? I've given an invite to a tracker to a person with 10 posts (this was outside of the invite forum so it wasn't 10 over 20 odd days) an invite because he had posted in the section that this tracker dealt with and had good questions and answers. Some people spam hundreds of posts.

4. Do I already know this person? That's always a helpful boost. However, it can also hurt you if I don't like the cut of your jib. Impartiality is dead :).

Get this far and I'll probably invite you.

if B:

2. Where did this person come from? Did I ask him to pm me? Most of the time this isn't a problem at all.

3. Did they just look at my sig and think they might get an invite out of me? Well, if they just ask for the invite you can bet they don't make it past this step.

4. How do they explain themselves? I figure if you're going to pm out of the clear sky blue, you definitely need to impress upon me immediately why it is that I should invite you. There are things I look out for in what is written, but I won't say what here :).

5. Do I even have an invite? If I think you deserve one, I'll do my best to track one down for you.

At this point you should be enjoying the successes of your labor, otherwise go back and try and fix where you fell off the path.

[monk3y]

I have to disagree with some of the tings you've said.

When someone does a giveaway and doesn't give it to the 'newcomers' it's because he can't review their posts and see what kind of torrent-users they are, even if someone is a spammer you can see in the posts history what kind of a person he is and other useful information.

RevTT is a nice site but compared to TL it's lame, staff there keeps sending massages ALL THE TIME with this lottery thing which of course is like telling the users "hey we want more money give it to us, well ? come on ?" kind of annoying when you have TL with top speeds great pre times and better content.

[Dark Archon]

opening signup will potentially increase the risk of people doing multiple sign ups and sellling/trading accounts, which in term destroys the whole point of most community based trackers. just look at the 4000 accounts disabled on revtt

i suppose closing sign ups and hand picking users are the only viable solution.

[Femto]

opening signup will potentially increase the risk of people doing multiple sign ups and sellling/trading accounts, which in term destroys the whole point of most community based trackers. just look at the 4000 accounts disabled on revtt

i suppose closing sign ups and hand picking users are the only viable solution.

lol, that's false. When was the last time you saw someone trading a Bitsoup account? Never.

It's easy to detect dupe accounts. Having staff hand pick users = no community. These releases were leaked to the P2P scene to share with other users, not to exclude them from it.

[stoi]

ok, so you have trackers that are huge and open all the time, for your last point.

you also have trackers that keep closed and only have a certain amount of members as well.

you have the best of both worlds imo.

and easy to detect dupe accounts, hmm sometimes it is, others not so. obviously if a tracker only allows 500 members then pretty easy, if a tracker stops open for 2 weeks and gets 50,000 members, then its nearly impossible, or a hell of a job for the staff.

Ive seen a BCG account on ebay go for $160 before, and that was when we were opening up regularly.

We have been to both ends of the spectrum, opening up all the time, getting 100,000 users, and now closing up completely (for now) and i tell you something, its nice to have some time not chasing dupe accounts etc.

[Tokeman]

just wanted to chime in, when I give invites away, I use a variety of methods to examine the potential winners. Post history here is always nice, but for the newcommers here, I don't automatically disqualify them. I just look for other methods to verify what kind of user they are. Asking for profile links at the trackers they are good members of, looking at their posts in those forums, things like that. If there is no real info to go on though, there is no way I would risk giving an invite to some one I could not even begin to know. I am more then willing to help them out with some of the more forgiving sites, who don't ban the whole invite tree for one bad apple, everyone deserves a chance, and the chance to prove themselves.

[grimms]

I think trackers like FTN or FSC or TT or whatever high level tracker needs to open up and bring some fresh and healthy blood or else will stagnate and eventually will die.

For example... I keep reading about FTN here and on other forums. I am not a FTN member and I can say anything good or bad about this tracker, but it seems that there are certain members who are not so happy with what's going on there.


As far as FTN i agree it may need some new blood once in awhile to keep the tracker healthy and it has gotten new blood recently. I don't know who complained to you about FTN but it's definitely all its talked up and made out to be. I do agree about iTS and the leeching problem, but that will change in a few months. iTS is still a very new tracker. You have to give it time.




On iTS (where I am member)for example, in forums you can read almost everyday posts complaining about the lack of leechers.

Since I am not a member on there I have no idea what system they use so I can only make a suggestion that they use a time seeding ratio to help out with the lack of leechers then people will be less scared to grab a torrent.


It's the same as FTN. Only upload is counted and such. I do great site improvements coming in the near future though. It's definitely a quality site like FSC, and FTN.


just wanted to chime in, when I give invites away, I use a variety of methods to examine the potential winners. Post history here is always nice, but for the newcommers here, I don't automatically disqualify them. I just look for other methods to verify what kind of user they are. Asking for profile links at the trackers they are good members of, looking at their posts in those forums, things like that. If there is no real info to go on though, there is no way I would risk giving an invite to some one I could not even begin to know. I am more then willing to help them out with some of the more forgiving sites, who don't ban the whole invite tree for one bad apple, everyone deserves a chance, and the chance to prove themselves.

1+. 100% agree with you on that statement. Thats how i gauge everything i do for a member known or not known. I do increase my emphasis on the unknown members though. I'm a brute with post history and just judge on you on your character, participation, and how helpful you are. Post count means shit to me just like speedtests (imo). Traders, scammers, and cheaters automatically= NO INVITE.

[Sanka113]

Yep, the reason why post history is important, is because it's one of the best ways to size up a persons personality. I'd rather invite a nice person with moderate ratios, rather than an anti-social douche with a buffer as large as his ego.

One thing I would like to see in giveaways is grading criteria. If people would post what they are looking for in their invitee it would weed out the unqualified users, in addition to saving those unqualified users time making proofs.

I would definitely like to see a more uniform way of making giveaways though.

[grimms]

Just have to set rules according to what you want to see in your users to see if they really want it for what the trackers worth, instead of for bragging rights, or trading purposes. I set strict rules to weed out traders, scammers, and cheaters and sway good trusted users in my giveaways.

[Tokeman]

The problem is all the people who just see a giveaway and post without reading... I was quite specific on my giveaway, granted it was a long post, but not hard to read IMO. I still got posts like 'sct plz' and such.

[grimms]

The problem is all the people who just see a giveaway and post without reading... I was quite specific on my giveaway, granted it was a long post, but not hard to read IMO. I still got posts like 'sct plz' and such.

I hate that very much lol. I think users purposely don't read and think their going to pull a fast one by mentioning trackers not presented in that particular giveaway. It amuses me but irritates me even more. Good point Tokeman.;)

[fOrUmAs]

RevTT is a nice site but compared to TL it's lame, staff there keeps sending massages ALL THE TIME with this lottery thing which of course is like telling the users "hey we want more money give it to us, well ? come on ?

so RevTT is lame compared to TL just becuase they sending PM abouth donations??



"hey we want more money give it to us, well ? come on ?

yea that is only your opinion whose of course its not correct...true like anyother site they send sometimes pm for donations but only if there are special double donations..and also by that they helping users to buy 2x GB for prize of one if they have low ratio..i dont see nothing bad in that..also most 99% of files that are on TL u can find on RevTT and conversely..

btw RevTT have more torrents then TL:P

but i like both sites

as i one time said TB,RevTT and TL are like 3 bigbrothers in torrent world:)

[grimms]

Forumas i didn't even bother to pay attention that members statement. I wouldn't bother. Anybody who is a member at Revtt knows the tracker is not lame (unless they got warned or banned).

[mrnobody]

For example... I keep reading about FTN here and on other forums. I am not a FTN member and I can say anything good or bad about this tracker, but it seems that there are certain members who are not so happy with what's going on there. And I am not talking only about community, I keep reading posts that say there are not many leechers there.
Maybe it's not a general feeeling, but only a vocal minority. Maybe also other trackers have the same situation, not just FTN.

I don't see how a person can complain about there being no leechers since there is no ratio on FTN and they only have to share it back for I think only 72 hours to fit the requirement.

36 hrs to be accurate and as DKre8ive1 said is why should any one complain about no leecher in ratio free site. My guess is that those who complain are epenis people and care about upload so they can put "FTN Elite" on their userbar?



On iTS (where I am member)for example, in forums you can read almost everyday posts complaining about the lack of leechers.

Since I am not a member on there I have no idea what system they use so I can only make a suggestion that they use a time seeding ratio to help out with the lack of leechers then people will be less scared to grab a torrent.

iTS is ratio free as well....it's just that u have to seed 72 hrs.

@The Wanderer (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/members/the-wanderer-192035),

1. As DKre8ive1 said there is higher risk involved in inviting people u dunno...that applies for all site. But, when it comes to smaller community the rules are usually stricker...you can get banned if your invitee screws up and most of all there is no second change to get back in.

2. Who said u nobody trusts new user? I remember, not long ago, Brandon (FTN staffer) inviting two fresh guy (they had less than 150 post at that time). There were and still are plenty more people who have more post or rep points than those two. But because those 2 had a sincere request staffer himself fulfilled the request.

3. Most people here will NOT say "i invited this guy to lvl X tracker" for "high ups" coz even giveaway is against rule for majority (if not all) "high ups". They say "invite your friends only"...or even "do not make giveaway in public forum".

[grimms]

36 hrs to be accurate and as DKre8ive1 said is why should any one complain about no leecher in ratio free site. My guess is that those who complain are epenis people and care about upload so they can put "FTN Elite" on their userbar?


:lol:Don't be too hard on the guy. I kinda agree myself though. Good point.



2. Who said u nobody trusts new user? I remember, not long ago, Brandon (FTN staffer) inviting two fresh guy (they had less than 150 post at that time). There were and still are plenty more people who have more post or rep points than those two. But because those 2 had a sincere request staffer himself fulfilled the request.

3. Most people here will NOT say "i invited this guy to lvl X tracker" for "high ups" coz even giveaway is against rule for majority (if not all) "high ups". They say "invite your friends only"...or even "do not make giveaway in public forum".

Both very good points as well. It's true. Most of my inviting i do through PM's only, if i feel a good member is deserving of an invite to a particular site. Most trackers do not one invites to their tracker advertised as squirrl3 said.

[DV8type]

Some sites need new members to fuel its P2L policy. Some sites have no sense of community. Some sites disregard security. Some sites herd users like cattle.

Some sites were meant to be small. Some sites thrive being a community. Some sites are meant to care about its users security. Some sites dont care about numbers. Some sites focus on the quality of its members. Some sites were meant to be for its users.

[grimms]

The fight club leader speaks. Sounds like real talk to me. Just like how we talk in the streets(at least where i come from).

[psxcite]

Some sites need new members to fuel its P2L policy. Some sites have no sense of community. Some sites disregard security. Some sites herd users like cattle.

Some sites were meant to be small. Some sites thrive being a community. Some sites are meant to care about its users security. Some sites dont care about numbers. Some sites focus on the quality of its members. Some sites were meant to be for its users.


Amen!

[mrnobody]

Some sites need new members to fuel its P2L policy. Some sites have no sense of community. Some sites disregard security. Some sites herd users like cattle.

Some sites were meant to be small. Some sites thrive being a community. Some sites are meant to care about its users security. Some sites dont care about numbers. Some sites focus on the quality of its members. Some sites were meant to be for its users.

http://usera.imagecave.com/wuweixia/plus_un.gif

[stoi]

and some sites just want as many members to make the torrents live longer, be faster and become part of a great community that already exists.

just pointing out that not all sites that have huge numbers do it for the cash.

[stoi]

ffs, had 10 minutes where it wouldnt take my post and i end up posting loads of replies.

sorry about that

[grimms]

I think the server is nearly overloaded. This forum is crowded(in a good way of course).:P

[The Wanderer]

as i one time said TB,RevTT and TL are like 3 bigbrothers in torrent world:)

Beautiful said, I couldn't agree more. :yup:


and some sites just want as many members to make the torrents live longer, be faster and become part of a great community that already exists.


:yup: :yup:

Thank you all for taking the time to post in this thread. :D

[TP635]

If security is the reason for a very selective invite system; then how do we account for public trackers like TPB; open, huge and been there longer than many private trackers? True security is a big and a very real issue, but I think we a fooling ourself if we think that such invitation system will prevent unwanted bad guy in.

[stoi]

I dont think its so much security, its uncertainty.

Its not like we are the mafia here and we have moles in the police and FBI, so we cant make a quick phone call and just ask, "oh btw, is my tracker next on the list"

It also depends where the tracker owners live, if the owner is in USA or UK there is a big risk to them, if they live in Sweden (TPB) its probably minimal atm, or asia are a few other places.

and you name TL, they got most of their members a few years back, they were closed for ages, same as BCG we had 100,000 members last year, its now down to less than 50,000, but we did go out there and get them. and now we are closed.

[Tokeman]

security is more of a concern for americans and anyone else in fear of getting sued easily for dling some music, or sharing it back. Some countries don't have to worry about this, some people just don't care. But people like me do everything we can to minimize the chance of being log'd, private sites offer at least a little more protection against this, or try to anyway.

[KFlint]

wow, major forum glitch, removed 8 dupe posts hehe

[Something Else]

For example... I keep reading about FTN here and on other forums. I am not a FTN member and I can say anything good or bad about this tracker, but it seems that there are certain members who are not so happy with what's going on there. And I am not talking only about community, I keep reading posts that say there are not many leechers there.
Maybe it's not a general feeeling, but only a vocal minority. Maybe also other trackers have the same situation, not just FTN.

I don't see how a person can complain about there being no leechers since there is no ratio on FTN and they only have to share it back for I think only 72 hours to fit the requirement.


On iTS (where I am member)for example, in forums you can read almost everyday posts complaining about the lack of leechers.

Since I am not a member on there I have no idea what system they use so I can only make a suggestion that they use a time seeding ratio to help out with the lack of leechers then people will be less scared to grab a torrent.


iTS has a 72hr seed rule. No ratios and uses a bonus system :P
FTN is 36hrs I believe. :smilie4:

[mrnobody]

I don't see how a person can complain about there being no leechers since there is no ratio on FTN and they only have to share it back for I think only 72 hours to fit the requirement.


On iTS (where I am member)for example, in forums you can read almost everyday posts complaining about the lack of leechers.

Since I am not a member on there I have no idea what system they use so I can only make a suggestion that they use a time seeding ratio to help out with the lack of leechers then people will be less scared to grab a torrent.


iTS has a 72hr seed rule. No ratios and uses a bonus system :P
FTN is 36hrs I believe. :smilie4:

yes, 36 for FTN

[Torture_Artist]

It also depends where the tracker owners live, if the owner is in USA or UK there is a big risk to them, if they live in Sweden (TPB) its probably minimal atm, or asia are a few other places.

As someone in the US looking to start a small tracker, what is the security risk to me if I host it abroad? I was under the impression I was fully safe, but now I feel "uncertain."

[stoi]

I bet Oink thought that as well.

Server in Holland, he lives in UK.

Ok big Tracker, big profile, etc but if you get busted and you live in the USA especially, then i bet they come down hard on you.

But thats the whole problem, no one knows how hard they will come down on you, yeah the staff off elitetorrents went to jail for Starwars, but im pretty sure i read somewhere that they had the servers in their basements (not sure how true that was though tbh).

but there is a risk, you wont just get off scott free.

[Torture_Artist]

I bet Oink thought that as well.

Server in Holland, he lives in UK.

Ok big Tracker, big profile, etc but if you get busted and you live in the USA especially, then i bet they come down hard on you.

But thats the whole problem, no one knows how hard they will come down on you, yeah the staff off elitetorrents went to jail for Starwars, but im pretty sure i read somewhere that they had the servers in their basements (not sure how true that was though tbh).

but there is a risk, you wont just get off scott free.

Well, it's non-scene - non entertainment material, so that there should reduce risk substantially right?

But if it were to not be a crime at all in the country it was hosted in (I was told Malaysia was one of those countries where copyright laws don't apply at all), would there be any legal issue, regardless of me being as US citizen?

[stoi]

Honestly, i do not know.

Obviously if your not doing movies and music your already under the radar so to speak, as thats the big 2 they go for.

as for Malaysia, i hope your right, as we have a new project over there now, not opened yet but will be soon i hope. and i signed up as anonymous on the contract as well so that always helps lay some fears at rest.

[Torture_Artist]

Did a little research (seriously, very little, first google result) and found:


The copyright in a work is infringed when a person who, not being the owner of the copyright, and without license from the owner, does or authorizes any of the following acts :



Reproduces in any material form, performs, shows or plays or distributes to the public, communicates by cable or broadcast of the whole work or a substantial part thereof either in its original or derivative form
Imports any article into Malaysia for the purpose of trade or financial gains
Makes, lets for hire or by way of trade, exposes or offers for sale or hire any infringing copy
Sells, lets for hire or by way of trade, exposes or offers for sale or hire any infringing copy
Distributes infringing copies
Possesses, otherwise than for his private and domestic use, any infringing copy
By way of trade, exhibits in public any infringing copy
Imports into Malaysia, otherwise that for his private and domestic use any copy which if it were made in Malaysia would be an infringing copy
Makes or has in the possession any contrivance used or intended to be sued for the purposes of making infringing copies or
Causes the work to be performed in publicThe doing of (i) and (ii) above are termed as direct infringement and is actionable at the suit of the owner.

The doing of (iii) to (x) are termed as indirect infringement and attract criminal sanction and enforceable by the Ministry of Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs.

A torrent tracker doesn't actually break any of those rules. It assists in distribution but does not directly distribute, so yep, looks like it is actually legal to run a torrent tracker, even one that tracks copyrighted material there.

[stoi]

well as far as im aware, i havnt looked into the legal aspect for awhile, but im sure someone will correct me if im wrong.

Torrents, and Trackers are not illegal anywhere in the world, and that includes the USA.

But they are finding ways to charge people over them.

Aiding and abetting in the illegal distribution of copy-written material

making a profit off copy-written material.

If they were illegal, then linux distros could not distribute over them and quite a lot of other items you can get over bittorrent that are not pointing to copy-written material.

[orfik]

Actually, a torrent tracker could be accused of enabling 2, 6, 8 & 10.

[grimms]

It's not illegal unless your caught in your tracker telling others downloading such and such movie, album, or game is okay and aiding them in doing so. Just don't get caught in your forums giving advice on what to download. As long as the files are not hosted on the actual site or server then there are no laws being broken. Thats how bt trackers operate. The riaa and mpaa are just using their deep pockets to twist the facts.

[stoi]

the main thing they come down really hard on you for though, and this is a criminal offence and why the staff of elitetorrents went to jail.

Is pre-release stuff.

obviously if something is pre-released by the scene, then every tracker on the planet will have it, so they want the scene not the trackers.

But if its pre-released as a home made rip on a tracker, they go after the tracker hard, "i think" this is why they went after Oink, as they had released 10-12 pre-released albums on their tracker last year alone.

and obviously starwars was pre-release and not scene so elitetorrents got busted.

It is funny though, but actually renting a seedbox, is more illegal than running a tracker, because the seedbox your actually storing the files on it. tracker servers should never have any copywrited files on them, or your just asking for trouble.

[bikernin]

thats a good point stoi. when you make homemade rips, you are directly involved in the act of piracy. otherwise you are merely distributing it.

[That1Guy]

thats a good point stoi. when you make homemade rips, you are directly involved in the act of piracy. otherwise you are merely distributing it.
The trackers arent distributing it either. They are just giving us a place to share files which we have the legal rights to ;)

If anything we the users are distributing the "material"

[Torture_Artist]

Actually, a torrent tracker could be accused of enabling 2, 6, 8 & 10.

Enabling the breaking of those laws is illegal in most countries, not Malaysia (atleast to my knowledge, it wasn't written there, and if it was illegal I'd imagine it would be).

[grimms]

the main thing they come down really hard on you for though, and this is a criminal offence and why the staff of elitetorrents went to jail.

Is pre-release stuff.

obviously if something is pre-released by the scene, then every tracker on the planet will have it, so they want the scene not the trackers.

But if its pre-released as a home made rip on a tracker, they go after the tracker hard, "i think" this is why they went after Oink, as they had released 10-12 pre-released albums on their tracker last year alone.

and obviously starwars was pre-release and not scene so elitetorrents got busted.

It is funny though, but actually renting a seedbox, is more illegal than running a tracker, because the seedbox your actually storing the files on it. tracker servers should never have any copywrited files on them, or your just asking for trouble.

True. Didn't think of that. Thats where the law has Oink right now. The pre release of material. Pre releases are illegal to have, no matter what way you put it.

[mrnobody]

It is funny though, but actually renting a seedbox, is more illegal than running a tracker, because the seedbox your actually storing the files on it. tracker servers should never have any copywrited files on them, or your just asking for trouble.

yes, if the site owns seedbox they are actually hosting the files...which is illegal (at least in States, me think).

The funny thing is that some sites have following disclaimer text and yet own seedboxes:


None of the files shown here are actually hosted on this server. The links are provided solely by this site's users. The administrator of this site cannot be held responsible for what its users post, or any other actions of its users. You may not use this site to distribute or download any material when you do not have the legal rights to do so. It is your own responsibility to adhere to these terms.


P.S. site user's seedboxes are legal btw :rolleyes:

[grimms]

Definitely dangerous in the states. They have strict rules for pirate offenders (hmm I wonder about me then).:P

[stoi]

well if seedboxes are legal like you say (i cant quite believe that but i will for now lol) and the seedboxes the tracker owners are on a different host, in a different country and havnt got the tracker software on at all, then surely no one can even touch the tracker owners for that, as they havnt got any files on the servers that actually host the tracker.

[grimms]

Thats true. Unless they obviously link their files from the server and advertise which they WOULDN'T do. I sure wouldn't want to be a member of that tracker.

[SAM]

The Best Thing That Any Tracker Does Is To Close The Invitation System And Try To Recruit Trusted Members From Forums Such As Fst.
Many Members In Many Trackers Misuse The Invites By Trading Or Selling So I Guess It's Better If There Is No Invites.

[stoi]

The Best Thing That Any Tracker Does Is To Close The Invitation System And Try To Recruit Trusted Members From Forums Such As Fst.
Many Members In Many Trackers Misuse The Invites By Trading Or Selling So I Guess It's Better If There Is No Invites.

But you cant trust anyone though, well not many.

I done that with a member from here, he had quite a few posts, looked like a good member, 2 days later we caught him cheating, i PMed him on here, and he admitted it.

so imo anyone you get in, wither by open signups, invite system, owners say so, might be a scumbag, you just never know till they are on your tracker.

and i dont see all that much wrong with trading invites tbh, at least if they trade invites, you know you are getting a member of another tracker that should know how to use torrents properly and wont cheat.

Giving them away they could be anyone, even your best friend or your mother can do the dirty on you with an invite. (if they havnt a clue how the ratio system works)

[pandabear]

I have always laughed how in this site, number of posts, bt rep and how much you have echo'd the norm opinion (trade = bad, giveaway=good) mattered, but outside this site it mattered so little. I don't think sign ups should ever be opened on extablished sites like ftn and sct, because there seeding base is well established(where else can you get rid of ratio, and still pull crazy speeds on brand new torrents). However sites like its and scl, who are looking to become top sites, should open there sign ups, or loosen the invites regulations. Purely because by keeping it tight, invites mainly go to those already in other top sites, so have no use for another 0day site, rather than someone who truly will leech and seed on the site. With these tight regs, all you are getting are collectors inviting collectors. Sure they may try shrug off the tag by faking activity, eg seeding torrents they already have on there, or occasionally leeching a torrent, but their still in it for the collection/community sake, which isn't how a good torrent site starts out.

[tjbzonasul]

Maybe it is just a matter of trying to screen who could be a good user and who is likely to become a scammer or a cheater. You might have an excellent prospect that will sell invites or accounts as soon as he has the chance to do so.