list your favourite HD release group

[athenaesword]

could you guys rank the quality of the HD movies released by the different groups. occasionally movies are released by multiple groups and it'd be nice to know which to go for. i've heard good things about ESiR but i'd like to hear your opinions about the rest of them.

downloading both and testing isn't a good option for me because currently my PC's only hooked up to a 19" screen. somewhere along this year i'm getting myself a 50" TV so i'm buffing up my HD storage for now.

some of the release groups:
hV - scene
CtrlHD - non-scene
ESiR - non-scene
ill - non-scene
hV - scene
SEPTiC - scene
CDDHD - scene
REVEiLLE - scene
SZ - ?????
chakra - ?????
sinners - ?????
NiX - ?????
PRiDE - ?????

thanks guys.

[ScreaminJay]

-NoGRP is the best HD releaser ;)

Most people agree that in the HD scene, your best bet is to use HDBits and download the often superior non-scene releases.

[808state]

ctrlhd and esir. no others.

[SenorBubbz]

I like Saints....

[athenaesword]

well i would use HDBits if i could actually could get in but i've been unsuccessful for weeks. (subtle hint)

right now i just use hd-bits.ro & scenehd while i continue my quest in vain

anyway, keep it coming guys =)

[AugustoP]

CTU for TV, ESiR for movies.

[bgh520]

only NsC !

[athenaesword]

NsC? i haven't come across that very often.

also, if you've got problems with any of the specific release group feel free to share as well.

[cocalait]

CTU and ESiR

[GoldStoNe]

Look for non-scene releases, particularly CtrlHD, Esir and iLL. Their encodes are generally better compared to scene encodes. (But there are exceptions.) The reason is that scene groups race who would release first, thus compromising picture quality. A good rip would take hours to complete.

Among the scene groups, the decent ones (based on my experience) are those of hV and Reveille. CDDHD's rips are the worst, imo, followed by Septic. Try to avoid those ,if you can. :)

P.S. I'm just expressing my opinion. So no offense to the scene groups I've mentioned. Take it as a challenge to do better. Good luck!

[The Wanderer]

CtrlHD and ESiR are the best. I always wait for ESiR's releases, don't bother to download other groups' releases especially being fan of DTS format. ;)

[Something Else]

hv 4 me.

[kyuuchi]

I prefer both CtrlHD and ESiR releases over scene groups, like GoldStoNe said, they releases are encoded better.

Quality over speed ;)

[athenaesword]

yeah definitely quality over speed for me. looks like ctlhd and esir tops everyone else. anyone able to point out which are the nonscene groups from the list in OP and which are scene? i'll stay away from the scene releases

release groups:
1) ESiR - non-scene
2) CtrlHD - non-scene
3) ill - non-scene
4) hV - scene
5) SEPTiC - scene
6) REVEiLLE - scene
7) CDDHD - scene
8) SZ - ?????
9) chakra - ?????
10) sinners - ?????
11) NiX - ?????
12) PRiDE - ?????

[GoldStoNe]

release groups:
1) ESiR - non-scene
2) CtrlHD - non-scene
3) ill - non-scene
4) hV - scene
5) SEPTiC - scene
6) REVEiLLE - scene
7) CDDHD - scene
8) SZ - non-scene
9) chakra - ????? <---- Don't know about this group. Probably misspelled. If chara - scene
10) sinners - scene
11) NiX - non-scene
12) PRiDE - non-scene

Here's a helpful list (From Scenehd.org):
Scene-groups
1920
2HD
4HM
aAF
AaS
BAJSKORV
BamHD
BiA
BlueTV
CDD
CDDHD
Chara
CTU
CuMBuCKeTS
DAW
DEFiNiTE
DEFiNiTiON
DHD
DIMENSION
GOTHiC
HALCYON
HDi
HDQ
hV
iaK
IGUANA
ImNaKeD
KYR
MEDiEVAL
MiND
MiNT
MiRAGETV
MOMENTUM
MsR
mV4U
mVmHD
NBS
NOVO
NSUBS
PaYxXx
PiX
PoRNDoCtOR
PORNOHOLiCS
PoTuS
PPQ
PROGRESS
PROPHETS
REFiNED
REVEiLLE
SEPTiC
SexSh0p
SFM
SiNNERS
SiTV
SYS
TERRA
TX
WANKAZ
VCDVaULT
WiDE
WiRE
WPi
XXX4U
YOUFORGOTTOREPACKTHIS

P2P-groups
AE
AW
Crow (Crowley)
CSHD
CtrlHD (DM)
DiR
disc
ESiR
fLAMEhd
FPG
Ft4U
Funner
GMoRK
GoLDSToNE
H2
HDL
iLL
JAVLiU
k2
MMI
NiX
NWO
OAS
ONYX
Prime
QDP
QXE
rabomil
Redµx
S26
SAiVERT
SLO
THOR
Thora
TM
V
VanRay
ViNYL
XSHD (IMF)
YanY
Zim'D

Hope this helps. :)

[popcop23]

Spetic
are great!!

[C-mos]

hv 4 me.


me 2 :naughty::naughty:

[kyuuchi]

Chakra is a scene group, I grabbed some of their releases.

[athenaesword]

wow goldstone. nice list, but i've never seen 80% of those. i guess i'm just interested in the more popular ones that're good.and er... i'm not interested in porn groups either, which makes up a substantial portion of your list =s

these are the groups i'm familiar with:
1) ESiR - non-scene
2) CtrlHD - non-scene
3) ill - non-scene
4) NiX - non-scene
5) THOR - nonscene
6) hV - scene
7) CDDHD - scene
8) SZ - ?????
9) chakra - scene
10) sinners - scene
11) SEPTiC - scene
12) PRiDE - ?????
13) REFiNED - scene
14) PROGRESS - scene
15) REVEiLLE - scene

[Daniel]

Look for non-scene releases, particularly CtrlHD, Esir and iLL. Their encodes are generally better compared to scene encodes. (But there are exceptions.) The reason is that scene groups race who would release first, thus compromising picture quality. A good rip would take hours to complete.
Word, especially CtrlHD is releasing at a crazy pace for the moment (5-10 releases per day). But I'd mention Goldstone as well, because if you are the one who did the Smallville hddvd seasons, I love you for it :D

To be honest, there are quite a few single people or smaller and less popular groups over at HDBits who get the idea of quality rips and follow up with amazing results. Names? How about MMI, H2, HDL, NWO and more. Lets not forget ALANiS who are non-scene as far as I know but do the most amazing 720p rips.

While there are only very few non-scene groups known well enough (most of which release exclusively at HDBits), the concept of a highdef community works because a whole group of people is working together to maintain it and offer new stuff.

[Skyy]

My vote goes to CtrlHD.

[kyuuchi]

HDBits has some good internal encoders, thats what makes the site the best for HD content.

[GoldStoNe]

Daniel,
OMG I just realized it now. My nick is the same as "GoLDSToNE", one of the HD release group! Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not part of the group nor will I profess to be. I'm not worthy. Hail to the HD masters. :)

[athenaesword]

Word, especially CtrlHD is releasing at a crazy pace for the moment (5-10 releases per day). But I'd mention Goldstone as well, because if you are the one who did the Smallville hddvd seasons, I love you for it :D

To be honest, there are quite a few single people or smaller and less popular groups over at HDBits who get the idea of quality rips and follow up with amazing results. Names? How about MMI, H2, HDL, NWO and more. Lets not forget ALANiS who are non-scene as far as I know but do the most amazing 720p rips.

While there are only very few non-scene groups known well enough (most of which release exclusively at HDBits), the concept of a highdef community works because a whole group of people is working together to maintain it and offer new stuff.

so according to you, is CtrlHD releases of good quality? keep all my HD movies so i'm looking for the best quality available really. i'm not signed up at hdbits now, though i'd like to be, and it's a pity that these great release groups you've mentioned release there exclusively.

ps. i'm taking note of all the groups you've mentioned =] when i do eventually get on there i'll be grabbing all of it. thanks for the information!

[Daniel]

athenaesword, non-scene groups/releasers are generally quality-conscious because they have other goals (or limitations) than scene groups.

The 720p scene rules state that standard length tv episodes (37-59 minutes) should be 1100mb in size and that doesn't cut it most of the time (the possible video bitrates of scene releases are as low as 3200kbps). Non-scene releases are typically 1500mb or 2200mb (1/3 or 1/2 dvd size) which allows ~4000kbps or ~ 6500kbps and a visible improvement in most cases.

Much of the same is true for movies because most scene released movies are made to fit on a single dvd (~4.4gb) as this is encouraged by the current scene release standards (dvd9 should be used only in cases of long movies, or high action movies). Another rule to favor the non-scene alternatives is the lack of quality control of scene releases because qualitative issues are no valid reason for a proper. What this means? Some group can hurry the process along and make a bad release of a movie and as long as there are no technical issues, this bad release is most likely the only scene release you'll ever get to see. Non-scene movies are usually a bit larger (by 1/3rd in most cases) but like with tv episodes it ensures a standard of quality that is higher than the casual viewer will ever want for.

To answer your question: yes I believe CtrlHD and ESiR are the two most competent p2p release groups and I've only had to re-download one movie in all my time at HDBits. I'm talking about the latest Bourne movie where CtrlHD (or was it ESiR?) fucked up the non-English/Russian subtitles which should have been hard-coded or included at least.

ammendmend #1: you don't need an account at HDBits necessarily. Try hd-bits.ro and search for those groups, I know of at least a couple of CtrlHD and ESiR movies over there and some of them are free leech. If you have some Usenet access try the same search too, you'll wonder how much stuff is available there ;) The latest I just downloaded is the complete bluray rip of the 3rd Lost season in 720p (~53GB in 23 episodes, minus par files).

ammendmend #2: GoldStoNe, I obviously didn't read your username careful enough or I might have noticed the difference myself ;) You're right about the hail to all hd-masters though, most of my current traffic is for highdef content!

[athenaesword]

athenaesword, non-scene groups/releasers are generally quality-conscious because they have other goals (or limitations) than scene groups.

The 720p scene rules state that standard length tv episodes (37-59 minutes) should be 1100mb in size and that doesn't cut it most of the time (the possible video bitrates of scene releases are as low as 3200kbps). Non-scene releases are typically 1500mb or 2200mb (1/3 or 1/2 dvd size) which allows ~4000kbps or ~ 6500kbps and a visible improvement in most cases.

Much of the same is true for movies because most scene released movies are made to fit on a single dvd (~4.4gb) as this is encouraged by the current scene release standards (dvd9 should be used only in cases of long movies, or high action movies). Another rule to favor the non-scene alternatives is the lack of quality control of scene releases because qualitative issues are no valid reason for a proper. What this means? Some group can hurry the process along and make a bad release of a movie and as long as there are no technical issues, this bad release is most likely the only scene release you'll ever get to see. Non-scene movies are usually a bit larger (by 1/3rd in most cases) but like with tv episodes it ensures a standard of quality that is higher than the casual viewer will ever want for.

To answer your question: yes I believe CtrlHD and ESiR are the two most competent p2p release groups and I've only had to re-download one movie in all my time at HDBits. I'm talking about the latest Bourne movie where CtrlHD (or was it ESiR?) fucked up the non-English/Russian subtitles which should have been hard-coded or included at least.

ammendmend #1: you don't need an account at HDBits necessarily. Try hd-bits.ro and search for those groups, I know of at least a couple of CtrlHD and ESiR movies over there and some of them are free leech. If you have some Usenet access try the same search too, you'll wonder how much stuff is available there ;) The latest I just downloaded is the complete bluray rip of the 3rd Lost season in 720p (~53GB in 23 episodes, minus par files).

ammendmend #2: GoldStoNe, I obviously didn't read your username careful enough or I might have noticed the difference myself ;) You're right about the hail to all hd-masters though, most of my current traffic is for highdef content!

thanks for the informative writeup mate ^^ i'm currently using hd-bits.ro and scenehd as my main sources of HD content for now, and i'm beating myself up for not discovering HD earlier. i have literally hundreds of dvdrips and am now starting the painful process of redownloading bit by bit.

may i ask what does proper mean? sorry if it's a noob question ;)

from what you say, these better rips from nonscene groups are accompanied by a significant increase in size, which is of course understandable and not that much of a problem for me, but is size a good gauge of the quality of the rip? it's certainly not indicative for dvds but i'm still relatively new with HD.

also, if you burn these HD movies onto DVD as data DVDs, you would need a HDDVD or bluray player to play it right? (also another seemingly redundant question but i recently burnt a HD movie onto dvd and it played on my dvd player except the quality was pretty bad)

and here's thanks to all who've contributed to the thread =]

[dunson]

I seem to want SEPTIC releases the most. :D

[athenaesword]

I seem to want SEPTIC releases the most. :D
really? someone said they're really poor

[Daniel]

may i ask what does proper mean? sorry if it's a noob question ;)
Proper is a term from the scene and it means that someone released a better/working version of it. It can mean that the previous release had for example an invalid serial number or a crack that wasn't working or it means an error was made in the process of encoding music, movies or tv.


from what you say, these better rips from nonscene groups are accompanied by a significant increase in size, which is of course understandable and not that much of a problem for me, but is size a good gauge of the quality of the rip? it's certainly not indicative for dvds but i'm still relatively new with HD.
Size is no good indicator on its own but it's an important part in the calculation. What's basically important is the bandwidth available for the video and with fixed size limits, the scene releases have to take some hits here. Some animated movies can produce amazing results with relatively small sizes of 2-3GB in 720p so there are always exceptions. My personal "rule" is that 720p content below 4000kbps is not enough to satisfy me and I've seen plenty of CTU/NBS tv-rips to confirm that.


also, if you burn these HD movies onto DVD as data DVDs, you would need a HDDVD or bluray player to play it right? (also another seemingly redundant question but i recently burnt a HD movie onto dvd and it played on my dvd player except the quality was pretty bad)
It's not that easy, unfortunately. There aren't really any hardware players to support mkv files on a dvd, so you will need to find other methods of watching this stuff on your tv. When you burned the hd movie on a dvd, you most likely did a downconvert to the respective pal/ntsc resolution and reencoded the movie in the proper mpeg stream. That's a sure way of wasting quality.
There are quite a few ways out there to properly watch highdef content on your hdtv and none of that include burning on any medium (yet) and using a hardware solution for playback. Okay, that's not quite true, because there are ways to do this, take the xbox or playstation 3 for example, generally streaming is the best way to go for the moment. Other hardware players capable of mkv-hd-content are slowly starting out (see the Popcornhour Networked Media Tank (http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/) for an example) but they are not perfect yet.

edit: about SEPTiC .. they have a horrible reputation among hd enthusiasts and if you compare some screens between theirs and non-scene rips you'll see the difference. Any hd movie will be better to watch than the dvd-rip in comparison but why settle for a 'cheap scene rip' if there are better alternatives out there? I don't see any reason to bitch about scene groups because they also deserve their respect for what they do - but truly, the only reason to download a scene-hd-rip is to watch it a couple of days earlier, before CtrlHD/ESiR or someone else does an encode. Because of my Usenet access I am downloading scene releases and they're fine to watch most of the time, whenever I want to 'archive' a movie though I try for a better alternative.

[bloody yonut23]

SEPTIC releases are the best in my opinion!!

[dunson]

I seem to want SEPTIC releases the most. :D
really? someone said they're really poor

The quality is damned good imo, but I'm not an expert. When I find an HD movie that I want, 75% of the time it was released by SEPTIC. So they're doing a good job I think.

[athenaesword]

Proper is a term from the scene and it means that someone released a better/working version of it. It can mean that the previous release had for example an invalid serial number or a crack that wasn't working or it means an error was made in the process of encoding music, movies or tv.

Size is no good indicator on its own but it's an important part in the calculation. What's basically important is the bandwidth available for the video and with fixed size limits, the scene releases have to take some hits here. Some animated movies can produce amazing results with relatively small sizes of 2-3GB in 720p so there are always exceptions. My personal "rule" is that 720p content below 4000kbps is not enough to satisfy me and I've seen plenty of CTU/NBS tv-rips to confirm that.

It's not that easy, unfortunately. There aren't really any hardware players to support mkv files on a dvd, so you will need to find other methods of watching this stuff on your tv. When you burned the hd movie on a dvd, you most likely did a downconvert to the respective pal/ntsc resolution and reencoded the movie in the proper mpeg stream. That's a sure way of wasting quality.
There are quite a few ways out there to properly watch highdef content on your hdtv and none of that include burning on any medium (yet) and using a hardware solution for playback. Okay, that's not quite true, because there are ways to do this, take the xbox or playstation 3 for example, generally streaming is the best way to go for the moment. Other hardware players capable of mkv-hd-content are slowly starting out (see the Popcornhour Networked Media Tank (http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/) for an example) but they are not perfect yet.

edit: about SEPTiC .. they have a horrible reputation among hd enthusiasts and if you compare some screens between theirs and non-scene rips you'll see the difference. Any hd movie will be better to watch than the dvd-rip in comparison but why settle for a 'cheap scene rip' if there are better alternatives out there? I don't see any reason to bitch about scene groups because they also deserve their respect for what they do - but truly, the only reason to download a scene-hd-rip is to watch it a couple of days earlier, before CtrlHD/ESiR or someone else does an encode. Because of my Usenet access I am downloading scene releases and they're fine to watch most of the time, whenever I want to 'archive' a movie though I try for a better alternative.

other than ESiR and CtrlHD what other non scene groups are worth taking a look at. a previous poster mentioned iLL. if ESiR and ctrlhd ripped every HD and bluray movie there is to rip i'd be more than happy to download everything from them but unfortunately some of the movies aren't released by them.

i'm cool with waiting for non scene rips, so my downloads will be prioritised in that direction from now on. i'm not even a 0day kinda guy, and most of it is for archiving purposes anyway, since i've watched majority of these movies on dvdrips already.

would you consider hdtv rips worthy of downloading? i've heard people say that they're vastly inferior to true hddvd or bluray rips, but they're usually the same size, so are they truly so poor? one thing i don't like about them is the aspect ratio, but i'm inquiring about the image quality.

and i get what you said about the dvds. guess i'll stick to watching stuff on my computer till technology catches up or becomes affordable.

[Daniel]

other than ESiR and CtrlHD what other non scene groups are worth taking a look at. a previous poster mentioned iLL. if ESiR and ctrlhd ripped every HD and bluray movie there is to rip i'd be more than happy to download everything from them but unfortunately some of the movies aren't released by them.
My suggestion, don't limit yourself to a few groups because you will miss out on some good things but both ESiR and CtrlHD are a good place to start. If we're talking about HDBits, you should see the screenshots for yourself (sometimes you get direct comparisons to the scene-release) or read the existing comments. Just because you don't know the person or group who released something doesn't mean it's bad quality.


would you consider hdtv rips worthy of downloading? i've heard people say that they're vastly inferior to true hddvd or bluray rips, but they're usually the same size, so are they truly so poor? one thing i don't like about them is the aspect ratio, but i'm inquiring about the image quality.
There are almost 700 torrents on HDBits that fit the search "hdtv 720p" for example and some of them are worth checking out because there's literally no other alternative available. One of the most important examples: The Lord of The Rings trilogy in HD. Here is a link to a screencap (http://www.home.zonnet.nl/meeuwissen53/Screenshots/snapshot20071212185702.png) of the 1080p encode of The Two Towers. While HDTV rips are generally not up to par with BluRay/HDDVD rips, any highdef encode is worth downloading if there is no other alternative to choose. hdlover (HDL) is someone I can reccomend, he's probably using the German pay-tv channel PremiereHD to create his hdtv-rips and uses the English audio track from a DVD to complete his rip.


and i get what you said about the dvds. guess i'll stick to watching stuff on my computer till technology catches up or becomes affordable.
I didn't say that watching hd movies on your hdtv is impossible because it isn't, but the way you went about it negated all advantages of those hd movies. The most important thing is the video codec - dvd's simply aren't efficient enough with their old mpeg codec anymore. The best way is to build a HTPC box to stream the video content, because it offers you the most freedom and because of it's system based either on Linux or Windows it offers you compatibility like no other solution. On top of that it allows you to store data in a reasonably cheap way on conventional hard drives.

[dunson]

I really need that LOTR in HD. :drools:

[sscape]

CTU, CtrlHD, & ESiR

[athenaesword]

My suggestion, don't limit yourself to a few groups because you will miss out on some good things but both ESiR and CtrlHD are a good place to start. If we're talking about HDBits, you should see the screenshots for yourself (sometimes you get direct comparisons to the scene-release) or read the existing comments. Just because you don't know the person or group who released something doesn't mean it's bad quality.

that's great advice. only thing is the sources that i'm getting from now the comments are usually just thanksx50 and there aren't any screenshots to talk about. but i will keep them in mind for later =)



There are almost 700 torrents on HDBits that fit the search "hdtv 720p" for example and some of them are worth checking out because there's literally no other alternative available. One of the most important examples: The Lord of The Rings trilogy in HD. Here is a link to a screencap (http://www.home.zonnet.nl/meeuwissen53/Screenshots/snapshot20071212185702.png) of the 1080p encode of The Two Towers. While HDTV rips are generally not up to par with BluRay/HDDVD rips, any highdef encode is worth downloading if there is no other alternative to choose. hdlover (HDL) is someone I can reccomend, he's probably using the German pay-tv channel PremiereHD to create his hdtv-rips and uses the English audio track from a DVD to complete his rip.

so issit safe to say that the best hdtv rips would be subpar or at most equivalent to hddvd/bluray rips of the same size?

one of the things that've been bugging me recently is the difference between 720p and 1080p. someone mentioned to me before that a good 720p encode is better than a poor 1080p encode. is that true? i mean would a 6gb 720p encode be possibly better than an 8gb 1080p encode? since we're talking about quality anyway, do you prefer to download 720p for the size or 1080p?

edit: btw regarding that lotr encode i heard it's not the extended version. i'm not so keen on it yet since i recently downloaded the 88gb dvd extended lol.



I didn't say that watching hd movies on your hdtv is impossible because it isn't, but the way you went about it negated all advantages of those hd movies. The most important thing is the video codec - dvd's simply aren't efficient enough with their old mpeg codec anymore. The best way is to build a HTPC box to stream the video content, because it offers you the most freedom and because of it's system based either on Linux or Windows it offers you compatibility like no other solution. On top of that it allows you to store data in a reasonably cheap way on conventional hard drives.

i'll try to find out more information on that by reading up elsewhere first cus i dont' wanna bore you with explaining that whole system from scratch. but i'd like to know though, how much would it cost to set up one? let's say i'm using a 500gb conventional harddisk.

[Daniel]

so issit safe to say that the best hdtv rips would be subpar or at most equivalent to hddvd/bluray rips of the same size?
It is safe to say that hddvd/bluray are the best possible source and while a good hdtv source (which is by no means to be expected) can come close, the level of detail is just not there. This is partly due to the simple fact that most tv stations are limited to smaller bandwidths than would be adviseable.


one of the things that've been bugging me recently is the difference between 720p and 1080p. someone mentioned to me before that a good 720p encode is better than a poor 1080p encode. is that true? i mean would a 6gb 720p encode be possibly better than an 8gb 1080p encode? since we're talking about quality anyway, do you prefer to download 720p for the size or 1080p?
It highly depends on your equipment, is your tv only hd-ready or fully capable for hd? Full HD means 1920x1080 and while I'm not trying to start a philosophical discussion here, this resolution is only worth it with the proper tv appliance. Those "small" 37" full HD products may be nice but the true advantage of the higher quality and resolution can only be shown with larger screens, from 47" upwards in my opinion. Those aren't cheap however and you'll have to think about parting with $2000 for one of those.

To make a long explanation short: if you don't have the proper hardware to support this resolution, then you won't NEED the 1080 rips. I know a couple of friends who own some smaller screens and they have no complaints about a little bit of upconverting.

The issue between 720p and 1080 is about the promise for the future. The trend is clearly leading to full HD screens but those are still too expensive for the average consumer - and the BluRay/HDDVD war doesn't help to invest in new technology either. While 1080 rips are larger in size (up to 2-3x larger than their 720p equivalent) and will demand more CPU time to decode, they come with a guarantee for the future whenever that may be ;)



edit: btw regarding that lotr encode i heard it's not the extended version. i'm not so keen on it yet since i recently downloaded the 88gb dvd extended lol.
88gb? :O The Two Towers Extended Edt aired in HDTV, the other two are only available with upconverted parts cut in. That is obviously less than perfect but I still prefer 3/4 of a movie to be hd than not at all! For anyone who wants the extended editions in a reasonable size, I'd suggest the XTSF release (Lord.Of.The.Rings.Trilogy.Extended.Edition.DVDRip.x264-XTSF) who have done a nice x264 dvdrip in 13gb for all 3 movies - those are also way better than any xvid dvdrip I've ever seen.


i'll try to find out more information on that by reading up elsewhere first cus i dont' wanna bore you with explaining that whole system from scratch. but i'd like to know though, how much would it cost to set up one? let's say i'm using a 500gb conventional harddisk.
A HTPC is technically like any other personal computer but (ideally) with some optimizations in noise reduction and with a couple of limitations. That means you won't get one of those for a bargain prize and it'll likely cost you several hundred Euros/dollars. The by far better bargain are external tools like the Media Tank I linked to earlier. I prefer (and recommend) a HTPC because it's been working amazingly well for me, my whole music collection is controlled through my media station, I have a digital tv receiver, I can record tv programs on it, I can watch everything from DVD to BluRay with it and I store content on harddrives that can be exchanged in a matter of 20 seconds. So you see that there are some real strengths to this solution but if you do not or cannot use them, a HTPC will likely be an over-expensive gadget to you.

[athenaesword]

It highly depends on your equipment, is your tv only hd-ready or fully capable for hd? Full HD means 1920x1080 and while I'm not trying to start a philosophical discussion here, this resolution is only worth it with the proper tv appliance. Those "small" 37" full HD products may be nice but the true advantage of the higher quality and resolution can only be shown with larger screens, from 47" upwards in my opinion. Those aren't cheap however and you'll have to think about parting with $2000 for one of those.

i have a 50" plasma tv downstairs. i'm not sure if it's full HD or HD ready i only know my dad bought it early last year or late 06 =s what's the difference?
i'm relatively content with collecting the HD movies for now, and downloading/building ratio with them is alot more tedious a process compared to buying the other equipment i need if i want to watch them on the tv in the future.



88gb? :O The Two Towers Extended Edt aired in HDTV, the other two are only available with upconverted parts cut in. That is obviously less than perfect but I still prefer 3/4 of a movie to be hd than not at all! For anyone who wants the extended editions in a reasonable size, I'd suggest the XTSF release (Lord.Of.The.Rings.Trilogy.Extended.Edition.DVDRip.x264-XTSF) who have done a nice x264 dvdrip in 13gb for all 3 movies - those are also way better than any xvid dvdrip I've ever seen.

yeah 88gb lol i'm an lotr fiend. it's the full dvd rips of the extended versions. which is basically 2dvd/movie + 2dvd worth of extras/movie. so that's like 12 uncompressed dvd rips. got it off demonoid before it died. i'm okay with waiting for the actual extended hddvds/blurays for this come out before i jump on it.

anyway, a huge thanks to you for explaining all these things, and in such a clear manner at that ;) i'll be sure to hit you up if i got any other hd related questions if you don't mind ^^

otherwise, the thread's still opened to anyone who wishes to contribute regarding the various release groups. just throw in whatever you think. for all you know, it could be a good reference for anyone who's thinking twice about downloading a certain rip.

[Daniel]

i have a 50" plasma tv downstairs. i'm not sure if it's full HD or HD ready i only know my dad bought it early last year or late 06 =s what's the difference?
The difference lies in the resolution and therefore the possible details to be displayed. It's likely that a 50" plasma bought in '06 is not capable of full HD but has a WXGA resolution of 1366x768 because they are common like that. If cou can, please check that and if I'm wrong about it, let me know. Now what has to be done to display 720p (1280x720) or 1080p (1920x1080) on your plasma? The source has to be either up- or downconverted which - in general terms - means losing quality for a down-convert and losing sharpness for an upconvert. It has to be noted though that there isn't much to upconvert anyway because we're talking about a resize of 6.7% which has noticeably less impact on the visible picture than an upconvert to a full HD resolution (+50%).

I have little to no experience with this particular setup but a colleague of mine has a 37" lcd with that resolution and he's very happy with the 720p rips I supply him with from time to time.

Note: it's important that you know one thing: the results between up- and downconversion can vary because of the hardware used, the techniques used for conversion and the ergonomic setup in your home (viewing distance). A comment not related to the current topic: I've had some terrible results with a HD-receiver and a full HD screen run with a suboptimal configuration which caused the whole setup to reconvert the stream twice and it came out looking like that too!


i'm relatively content with collecting the HD movies for now, and downloading/building ratio with them is alot more tedious a process compared to buying the other equipment i need if i want to watch them on the tv in the future.
Seeing as you have a undoubtedly a very fine screen you won't buy another one this expensive, or will you? Full HD capable plasmas in 50" start at about $2500 (European prizes & Euro>USD conversion) and that's likely a waste of money to update in the near future.
I'd suggest you try to download one 1080p encode in a very good quality (the 100mb sample should suffice) and if it doesn't bring noticeably better results in connection with your plasma (which it likely won't), then you're good to go with 720p releases for the next couple of years. On a completely different matter: you'd be surprised how many movies from the past two decades have such a limited quality that there is no advantage at all in looking for a 1080p encode because even the video source doesn't warrant that ;) Buying the respective BluRay/HDDVD discs is like downloading a R5 xvid rip (those cheap Russian pre-releases which often lack quality) over a true R1/R2 DVDR. If you're ever in HDBits you should read comments (and forum posts) about that too because a part of current highdef releases are pre-2000 and each of them is a candidate for 720p.

[andain]

NoGRP is the best HD releaser

[GoldStoNe]

Daniel, good job in answering athenaesword's questions. :)

I'd like to add that if you have a HDTV below 50", 720p would be good enough.


The extra sharpness afforded by the 1080p televisions he's seen is noticeable only when watching 1080i or 1080p sources on a larger screens, say 55 inches and bigger, or with projectors that display a wall-size picture. http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6810011-1.html?tag=ms

[athenaesword]

Daniel, good job in answering athenaesword's questions. :)

I'd like to add that if you have a HDTV below 50", 720p would be good enough.


The extra sharpness afforded by the 1080p televisions he's seen is noticeable only when watching 1080i or 1080p sources on a larger screens, say 55 inches and bigger, or with projectors that display a wall-size picture. http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6810011-1.html?tag=ms

nice read GoldStoNe ;) and yeah daniel definitely deserves some form of honorary mention here lol. perhaps open a HD section for him to mod ^^
i'm going to check out what my TV really is lol. all i really know about it now is that it's 50" and it supports HDMI. i'm not even sure if it's full HD like daniel mentioned.

[Daniel]

I concur with GoldStoNe and I even said something similar in an earlier post to the extent that full HD screens are only worth it from a certain size on or the additional money spent is definitely wasted. Where this limit is depends on a couple of details like the distance between the screen and yourself. If you're farther away than three times the height of your screen (I don't know if this is a golden rule or not but this has done well in my own experience) then it doesn't really matter much which size or resolution your screen is, you're unlikely to see much of a difference between 720p and 1080p anyway.

Also, like the article correctly stated, the full HD resolution invites people to sit closer to the screen - what had been a sin with previous crt technology now lets you experience a felt bigger picture without loss of quality. If this is one more of the advantages you don't or can't use, then it's another point against the use of 1080p.

Oh and ... I'd like a HD section here at FST because for many users it would be a start to make hdtv more than a mere denomination they read in the titles of their xvid-tv-rips. Moderating it on the other hand, don't even start with that please ;) Not only am I too lazy for that but it would be too much of an effort because most people here lack the experience to be remotely objective or helpful and it even shows in this thread (for example: some recommended SEPTiC while everyone who's a regular on hd trackers knows they're far from the best .. but it's easy to get that impression if you've only got your standard 480p xvid dvdrip to compare them with).
I am usually very happy that I can just drop in, ask a question or answer one for that matter and then go my merry way again like I do it on highdefforum.com which is an okay source for this kind of topic as well (though I don't know how well you'll be received if you ask for technical help on the movies from the internet stuff).

[F3n1x]

CTU and hv for me

[messi30]

hV , ESiR , SEPTiC

[athenaesword]

SEPTiC again haha.

looks like i might wanna concentrate on 720p over 1080p now since the difference doesn't seem to be worth the file size increase. would the increase in resolution from a 1080p be able to make up for a poor 720p encode? from what you've said, it probably wouldn't but i thought i'd ask just to be sure.

also, this's probably a little OT, but since it's my thread.. ;) issit safe to watch these plasma/LCD TVs at such close range nowadays? i sorta lost interest in TVs years ago so i'm a little rusty with the crt - lcd/plasma conversion era.

i think i've come across highdefforum before, but i didn't stay for long cus i realised alot of the threads were begs for hdbits.org invites. yeah it'll be nice to have a HD subforum, probably under the movies section. it's not like those discussion sections are heavily modded anyway; i mean, there's no point in enforcing strict rules about general discussion. there's an anime section, which is quite underutilised, so why not a HD section? there're clearly alot of people who need to be educated in HD, people like myself.

[Daniel]

looks like i might wanna concentrate on 720p over 1080p now since the difference doesn't seem to be worth the file size increase. would the increase in resolution from a 1080p be able to make up for a poor 720p encode? from what you've said, it probably wouldn't but i thought i'd ask just to be sure.
Mmh, there's another thing I have to clear up a bit. What makes a bad encode - or why do scene groups have this bad reputation among hd enthusiasts? Lets start from the other end: what makes a good encode? Little or no visible blocking, keeping the original hue/coloring, keeping the original details including any sharpness/blurring, keeping the original aspect ratio. What scene groups don't always get right are these details that do not necessarily make the movie look bad - but in comparison with the original or a proper encode those differences can be very obvious. The main goal an encoder aspires is to create a copy of a movie that looks just like the original ... and some groups fail in that task more often than others ;) It doesn't always mean the end result looks bad but it's not authentic enough for those enthusiasts.


also, this's probably a little OT, but since it's my thread.. ;) issit safe to watch these plasma/LCD TVs at such close range nowadays? i sorta lost interest in TVs years ago so i'm a little rusty with the crt - lcd/plasma conversion era.
It is one of the distinct advantages of the digital display technology to be closer to the screen and still have a sharp enough picture.

[athenaesword]

It is one of the distinct advantages of the digital display technology to be closer to the screen and still have a sharp enough picture.

yeah but is this healthy for your eyes? We all used to blame CRT TVs for ruining our eyesight since youth.

[WarrenBuffet]

spectic imo

[athenaesword]

spectic imo

:ermm:

[cRaZyzMaN]

i just like lol

[santhu]

ctrlhd and esir are good

[Daniel]

It is one of the distinct advantages of the digital display technology to be closer to the screen and still have a sharp enough picture.
yeah but is this healthy for your eyes? We all used to blame CRT TVs for ruining our eyesight since youth.
That was true for CRT tv's, yes. Neither plasma nor any other kind of digital displays need a 'safe' viewing distance anymore because there is nothing harmful left. You can in fact sit as close as you want to your screen without any health issues popping up. Well, except for a possible headache if you see too much of the screen's pixel structure :D For a standard PC monitor the recommended distance is about 20 inches and the same process is applied to tv's.

This is something called 'recommended viewing distance' (ad-lib translation from my mother tongue) which determines a range based on your screen size rather than a fixed distance. For a 50" screen this is between 6 and 10 feet and you should test that, starting from the lower end - if it's possible at all in your living room setup. One word of advise: it doesn't help testing the distance with only one kind of high quality medium because at least over here in Europe, 480p non-hd content is still vastly dominating and you may receive a better result if you're not too close to the screen for that kind of torture ;)

[sheringham]

CtrlHD 和SEPTiC
BTW：i have learned sth thx

[relik]

My opinion:ESiR and CtrlHD

[necromantic]

CtrlHD all the way!

[colyu]

CtrlHd, and Septic

[The Gladiator]

All of them are good for me :)

[Snake91]

ctrlhd, esir and goldstone. The only scene group that I like is hV.

[DjFresh]

CtrlHd for me

[copacabana]

i like CTU and CtrlHD

[Ph34rful]

I too try to stick to Esir and CtrlHD as I noticed the better quality.
Septic is quite terrible PQ wise, but I go to the other groups if I have to.
Eureka seems pretty good to me. Haven't seen anyone else mention them though.

[eyustfu]

CtrlHD

[Squall.]

For me, CTU.

[Sylar666]

I would like to thank Daniel for the very useful and professional stuff here. Good job!

[.:Him:.]

CtrlHD. They bring me the best movies in 1080p!

[TidusBlade]

Usually ESiR and CtrlHD, my favorite movies are all released by them too, and the quality is the best ^^

[athenaesword]

I would like to thank Daniel for the very useful and professional stuff here. Good job!

exactly. can't thank him enough for sharing his knowledge here. I've basically gotten all my information on HD i needed to start out from him. we need more of members like these!

[GoldStoNe]

Aside from Esir and CtrlHD, Eureka's 1080p encodes are great. Very close to the source.

[ghost716]

ctrlhd & esir

all the other groups over sharpen and waste a ton of bitrate

[Ramus]

ESiR & SEPTiC

[becomehokage]

could you guys rank the quality of the HD movies released by the different groups. occasionally movies are released by multiple groups and it'd be nice to know which to go for. i've heard good things about ESiR but i'd like to hear your opinions about the rest of them.

downloading both and testing isn't a good option for me because currently my PC's only hooked up to a 19" screen. somewhere along this year i'm getting myself a 50" TV so i'm buffing up my HD storage for now.

some of the release groups:
hV - scene
CtrlHD - non-scene
ESiR - non-scene
ill - non-scene
hV - scene
SEPTiC - scene
CDDHD - scene
REVEiLLE - scene
SZ - ?????
chakra - ?????
sinners - ?????
NiX - ?????
PRiDE - ?????

thanks guys.
chakra by far the best release group imo

[crashmycivic]

hopefully everyone who is mentioning septic/chakra is joking... who knows though, maybe you guys are that dumb.

anyway, here is a list of great INTERNAL release groups/individuals on you know which tracker.

ESiR
CtrlHD
iLL
rabomil
NWO
HDL
NiX
QXE
XSHD
JAVLiU
Redµx
GoLDSToNE
ViNYL
Thora
H2
Crow
Prime
Zim'D
GMoRK
DiR
MMI
QDP
SLO
AE
S26
V
fLAMEhd
Ft4U
disc
FPG
Funner
YanY
k2
AW
VanRay
TM
ONYX
DoNOLi
OAS
DON
HDB
MdM
TSE
M794
KTN
MAGiC
PHiN
PiNG
Mojo
HDT
JCH

[GoldStoNe]

dude, no need to shout! :D

[Villain]

CTU & EuReKa.

[ryan20021982]

CtrlHD
ESIR
EuReKA

[ericab]

CtrlHD
ESIR
EuReKA

agreed 100%

[Likvid]

How come original BD movies are like 30-40Mbps bitrate when 5-6Mbps is enough in these encodes?

Sounds fishy.

[saulin]

Which groups actually do 720p releases at 1280x768?

I see a few 1280x534 on Bit-HDTV. Some where much bigger than others too. I was just browsing for Iron Man and there was 1 at 2.56 gigs and one at 4.41 gigs and a couple at t 6.6 gigs which is probably the one I would get.

What's generally the size of a really good quality 720p release?

Sorry I'm new to this. Normally I'll just get DVD9 DVDs but HD rips are better quality so I might as well get HD rips since they are smaller than DVD9 DVDs as well.

[Funkin']

Which groups actually do 720p releases at 1280x768?

I see a few 1280x534 on Bit-HDTV. Some where much bigger than others too. I was just browsing for Iron Man and there was 1 at 2.56 gigs and one at 4.41 gigs and a couple at t 6.6 gigs which is probably the one I would get.

What's generally the size of a really good quality 720p release?

Sorry I'm new to this. Normally I'll just get DVD9 DVDs but HD rips are better quality so I might as well get HD rips since they are smaller than DVD9 DVDs as well.

I'm also very curious about this, as I'm very new to HD too. I usually just go for the smallest size, and I always grab only 720p releases. The quality from what I've grabbed has always looked excellent(beautiful actually) to me. But would grabbing the larger file sizes of the same 720p movie mean better quality than the smaller file size?

[Unstable1]

CtrlHD, ESiR and EuReKa are my favourites.

I'm no expert though, so I usually pick the largest filesize I can find on HDBITs, at least for favourite movies.

[wangyang]

that would be wiki :D:D
my favourites HD release group

[ryan20021982]

Which groups actually do 720p releases at 1280x768?

I see a few 1280x534 on Bit-HDTV. Some where much bigger than others too. I was just browsing for Iron Man and there was 1 at 2.56 gigs and one at 4.41 gigs and a couple at t 6.6 gigs which is probably the one I would get.

What's generally the size of a really good quality 720p release?

Sorry I'm new to this. Normally I'll just get DVD9 DVDs but HD rips are better quality so I might as well get HD rips since they are smaller than DVD9 DVDs as well.

720P is 1280x720 not 1280x768





I'm also very curious about this, as I'm very new to HD too. I usually just go for the smallest size, and I always grab only 720p releases. The quality from what I've grabbed has always looked excellent(beautiful actually) to me. But would grabbing the larger file sizes of the same 720p movie mean better quality than the smaller file size?

Usually not enuf to notice, most of the time the only difference is the
bitrate, and sometimes the bigger rips have a better audio stream.
But it all depends if you get a good encode thats say 4.3gig it might
even be better than a encode thats say 6gig, all depends on the encode
really size isnt always a factor

[ostracizado]

For anime HD THORA is certainly the best .. for docs hmmm .. dont think they are a release group but a bunch of people releasing hd docs .. mvgroup

[puckface]

holy shit, i didnt realize this was so old, so I edited my post.

[saulin]

720P is 1280x720 not 1280x768


My 32" LCD TV Native Resolution is 1280x768

[lukee]

Any HDBits x264 encoder and CTU for TV.

[hof]

I usually grab CtrlHD and ESiR releases :), sometimes EuReKa
They are the best imo

[ryan20021982]

720P is 1280x720 not 1280x768
My 32" LCD TV Native Resolution is 1280x768

Good for your tv but 720P is still 1280x720

[saulin]

My 32" LCD TV Native Resolution is 1280x768

Good for your tv but 720P is still 1280x720


Anyways 1280x534 is not 720p so I wonder why a lot of groups choose that res.

[Likvid]

Good for your tv but 720P is still 1280x720


Anyways 1280x534 is not 720p so I wonder why a lot of groups choose that res.

My god you are new to this.:lol:

It's 534p because they crop the black borders and only process the image to save space and make the files smaller.

[Cleaner]

NoGRP for sure

[ryan20021982]

Good for your tv but 720P is still 1280x720


Anyways 1280x534 is not 720p so I wonder why a lot of groups choose that res.

True 720P is 16:9 not all movies are released in 16:9 some are 2.35
which is even wider which IMO is retarted, but thats what it is

[MjWoNeR]

I guess I have to go with EuReKa based from my experience. The higher the quality the better.

There is nothing more insulting to a good calibrated 1080p HDTV than a "2 hour action film" 1080p rip with less bitrate than a DVD.

[smd9]

This might be a little off topic, but it seems that most of the non-scene groups release with DTS sound, and I've noticed scene starting to do this too. IMO, DTS is a waste of bit rate unless you have a really high end audio system. Most comparisons I've read on-line say that most people can't tell the difference, and notice changing the audio system (i.e. hardware/speakers) more than changing the audio encoding (Dolby/DTS).
So basically, my point was to ask if there are groups which don't sacrifice in video bit rate (which I think is much more noticable than audio bit rate) but prefer AC3 over DTS.

[brightsid]

You are wrong sound is important as video. And you don't need a high end audio to understand the difference in movies.

[smd9]

Um OK. Other that just calling me "wrong", would you care to back up your claims somehow?
I'm not saying sound isn't important. I appreciate a cool surround sound track just as much as the next guy, if not more. I'm just doubtful that a 1500kbps DTS sound stream is more than twice as good as a 640kbps AC3 stream, as the bit rate might imply. That extra 860kbps would make more of a noticeable difference in video bandwidth than it would in audio bandwidth (especially in smaller 720p releases), IMHO.
Anyway, I didn't mean to take this too far off topic and turn this into a DTS vs AC3 debate.

PS I like DON as a release group too :-)

[Lucifer9999]

the best for me:
- p2p: esir, ctrlhd.
- scene: sinners, cinefille

plus wiki, don, eureka, hdbrise, septic, reveille......
and many others, i'm a big fan of 720p releases (the best balance between size and quality)

[Cradle]

Dude, look how old this thread is! It was bumped once 6months ago, and now you're bumping it again?!?!

[Lucifer9999]

Dude, look how old this thread is! It was bumped once 6months ago, and now you're bumping it again?!?!


is there a rule where says how old a thread can be for a user to post in it???:pinch:

[seenaxes]

METiS

They've pre'd a lot of good shit this year and get it out nice and early. Before someone hates on the scene HD quality, I know all about it. Some scene encodes suck, some are worth watching even if some p2p group will release something a month or two later with higher pq. I find METiS encodes to be very close in terms of pq to those by WiKi and they seem to have the same source since at least this summer.

[alpharomiyo]

"E
U
R
E
K
A "

:w00t:

all the way :cool:

[cinephilia]

i'd say ESiR for two reasons:

- they do good encodes
- they includes subtitles in 95% of their releases

[REVTTtorrent]

Esir
wiki
sinners
eureka

[phauk]

NoGRP without a doubt ;)

[fstrulz]

There's a new internal group from BIT-HDTV called FraMeSToR -- their encodes have very high video quality and optional HD audio. IMO, they are the best out there right now (with all due respect to EuReKa and ESiR).

[5ifty1]

internal @ HDB ftw.

[System]

i like verry much SEPTiC , verry good release

[bibi4k]

There's a new internal group from BIT-HDTV called FraMeSToR -- their encodes have very high video quality and optional HD audio. IMO, they are the best out there right now (with all due respect to EuReKa and ESiR).

Indeed. Framestor releases are amazing.

[zepesca]

wiki

[Quarterquack]

I can't believe I didn't reply to this thread yet!

Private group: ESiR for sure. They have become a standard for any of my downloaded HD material. Unparalleled consistency on any/all releases I downloaded of theirs'.

Scene standard groups: CBGB/SiNNERS; they always encode movies properly, and usually add in an extra contrast/brightness factor, that seems to always make the movie look better than from other sources. I usually am very irked when an encoder decides to edit something in the movie to his taste, but those two groups just have plenty of fine taste in what a director would love to see his movie shown as.

Niche HD group: THORA; can't ever complain about their releases. Timely/nice, and now they're even back! :D

[ThorMAN]

I love ViSiON.

They make great encodes. Only on TorrentLeech ;)