Someone pls explain why

[Submission]

My question is why are computer nerds so in love with Japan? Is it the porn and cartoons? Or is Japan like geek country or something, im being serious too.

[Squeamous]

Beats me, I've always wondered that myself. It seems nearly all my friends have gone off to Japan at some point for the customary 'between uni and work, don't know what to do' period. The Japanese are completely different to those of us in the West, so maybe that's why we're fascinated in them. I say 'we', but I don't include myself in that. I find the whole phenomena quite tedious.

[Biggles]

No idea - something foreign and a bit whacky is always fascinating. Their food is nice (noodle bars rather than the raw fish thing).

I am much more interested in your obsession with the Japanese though - what is it with that?

[Submission]

Among, friends, people at work and school. Japan is just Japan, no one gives a shit one way or another.

But when you get on the net, there's some retarded fucker who loves Japan.

But it makes sense, Japanese culture is basically nerd culture. Cartoons, anime, hentai, an unbelievable amount of porn.

Not to mention that most Japanese dont ever say they are Japanese on the net.

So biggles are you Japanese?

[Biggles]

Among, friends, people at work and school. Japan is just Japan, no one gives a shit one way or another.

But when you get on the net, there's some retarded fucker who loves Japan.

But it makes sense, Japanese culture is basically nerd culture. Cartoons, anime, hentai, an unbelievable amount of porn.

Not to mention that most Japanese dont ever say they are Japanese on the net.

So biggles are you Japanese?

Of course.

[Submission]

Of course.

So how do you explain the pervertedness of Japanese culture? Are you guys proud to become the nerd country of the world?

[Barbarossa]

I actually think the Taiwanese are more nerdy than the Japanese.

[Biggles]

I actually think the Taiwanese are more nerdy than the Japanese.

I thought it was Candaians that were the uber geeks :unsure:

actually Submission is your obsession with the Japanese or pron..it is kind of hard to tell?

[Alien5]

Among, friends, people at work and school. Japan is just Japan, no one gives a shit one way or another.

But when you get on the net, there's some retarded fucker who loves Japan.

But it makes sense, Japanese culture is basically nerd culture. Cartoons, anime, hentai, an unbelievable amount of porn.

Not to mention that most Japanese dont ever say they are Japanese on the net.

So biggles are you Japanese? well done, you've just answered your own question. I thought you knew.

[FatBob]

Japan leads the world in many technologies and research fields :mellow:

[FatBob]

They're still laughing about this at IBM. Apparently the computer giant decided to have some parts manufactured in Japan as a trial project. In the specifications, they set out that they will accept three defective parts per 10,000 .

When the delivery came in there was an accompanying letter. "We, Japanese people, had a hard time understanding North American business practices. But the three defective parts per 10,000 have been separately manufactured and have been included in the consignment. Hope this pleases you."

[DyNast]

I have only 3 things to say:
Japanese TV shows are sick
Japanese cartoon porn is sick
<3 PS

:P

[Biggles]

I have only 3 things to say:
Japanese TV shows are sick
Japanese cartoon porn is sick
<3 PS

:P

You say that as though it is a bad thing :dabs:

[Pzero]

Video games, anime, and many androgynous dressing people with a fetish for extremely weird game shows.

[Submission]

makes sense.

Anime/hentai
and the fact that every console game on the planet was made in Japan.

I guess it explains the escalating violence in japanese porn and why real rape is ignored.

2 words:

TENTACLE PORN

[chalice]

Japan is taking revenge for being atom bombed to fuck.

They can do what they want. Fair fucks to them.

If you don't like it, become part of the Japanese legal system and change it.

Otherwise, stfu, racist.

[Biggles]

One must assume that Submission was attacked by a rogue Sega Megadrive in his youth. :unsure:

[chalice]

One must assume that Submission was attacked by a rogue Sega Megadrive in his youth. :unsure:

Weren't we all, Les. Doesn't mean we have to turn into cawks about it.

[Biggles]

One must assume that Submission was attacked by a rogue Sega Megadrive in his youth. :unsure:

Weren't we all, Les. Doesn't mean we have to turn into cawks about it.

He is being a bit girly about it I would agree.

[callum]

This is isn't his first anti-japanese fred.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-lounge-10/t-weird-news-murdered-executed-after-killing-16-year-old-and-her-family-japan-264406

I think he may be a bit of cunt.

[chalice]

I know, Callum.

Only felt moved to react to his cawkness after the 2nd fred.

[callum]

I know, Callum.

Only felt moved to react to his cawkness after the 2nd fred.

My post was just an excuse to call him a cunt to be honest.

[chalice]

Fair enough. You're right, he is a cunt.

Anybody else want to make him aware of his cuntdom?

[Biggles]

I know, Callum.

Only felt moved to react to his cawkness after the 2nd fred.

My post was just an excuse to call him a cunt to be honest.

Although there is no harm in identifying cuntish leanings.

[callum]

Fair enough. You're right, he is a cunt.

Anybody else want to make him aware of his cuntdom?

I try, but I think stupidity is getting in the way.

[Snee]

My question is why are computer nerds so in love with Japan? Is it the porn and cartoons? Or is Japan like geek country or something, im being serious too.
They've got consumer-electronics that are a fair few years ahead of anything around here, and it tends to be cheap, they've got their own culture of animation and comics that's fairly unique, or used to be until people in the west started imitating it, and their own mode of storytelling that's rather exotic.

That pretty much covers the geek angle without having to resort to porn.

On top of that they've got a very interesting and intricate language, a different culture with a well-documented, interesting history reaching back quite a while, and traditionally an interesting take on architecture. Which makes it an interesting place to travel to for anyone.

And then there's the nature, the climate, and the relative proximity to other interesting places, such as Singapore and Thailand. And then there's the whole business with it being quite orderly as a nation, which probably appeals to a certain kind of person.

Racist.

[Submission]

I didn't mention all Asians, so no im not a racist.

I'm wondering why when you get on the net everyone loves Japan. Just found it weird.

Japanese culture is a joke unless your a nerd, anime, cartoon porn, video games. It pretty much sums up why the Japanese prostitution industry is larger than the Singapore economy.

Snee, chalice, callum are you all Japanese?

Maybe Im wrong, there doesn't seem to be many non-Japanese folks defending you.

Just you sorry asses crying racism.

[sleepyy]

http://www.insidereality.net/index.php?itemid=397

[Hairbautt]

My question is why are computer nerds so in love with Japan? Is it the porn and cartoons? Or is Japan like geek country or something, im being serious too.
What the devil are you talking aboot?

[frottage]

i know what somebody needs.

somebody needs a cookie.

http://www.pittsburghfudge.com/images/Cookies.jpg

go ahead, take a bite. just don't get crumbs all over the floor. this lounge ain't been swept in a loooonnng time, my friend.






btw, biggles pm'd me and tried to persuade me to slip one of these
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Fortune_cookie.jpg/200px-Fortune_cookie.jpg
in with your other cookies but i was like "no way jose, my man submission knows better than eat those geek cookies. stop playin'"

yeah it's typical a jap like biggles would try something like that. enjoy your cookie!

[kittybewm]

Me so solly


^^^ thats why duh

[Biggles]

i know what somebody needs.

somebody needs a cookie.

http://www.pittsburghfudge.com/images/Cookies.jpg

go ahead, take a bite. just don't get crumbs all over the floor. this lounge ain't been swept in a loooonnng time, my friend.






btw, biggles pm'd me and tried to persuade me to slip one of these
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Fortune_cookie.jpg/200px-Fortune_cookie.jpg
in with your other cookies but i was like "no way jose, my man submission knows better than eat those geek cookies. stop playin'"

yeah it's typical a jap like biggles would try something like that. enjoy your cookie!

Sssshh! It will help him cope with his culture phobia.

Fuck knows what we do about his inability to understand simple statistics though :unsure:

[Submission]

oh noes the japanese are insulting me.

I'm devestated. Go watch more cartoon porn.

its no wonder the japanese marriage rate is dropping like a rock.

[FatBob]

where are you from submission ? :unsure:

[Biggles]

where are you from submission ? :unsure:

Korea I think :shifty:

[FatBob]

maybe north korea

[Submission]

Canada

Korea?

Desperate justification for why you love tentacle cartoon porn.

You must be shocked, the world doesn't love Japanese culture?!!? HOW CAN IT BE.

Everyone is a pathetic japanese nerd.

ITS TIME TO MORPH INTO SUPER SAMURAI NINJA MODE!! MY NINJA BUDDIES AND ME WILL OWN FST LOUNGE!!

[Biggles]

Canada

Korea?

Desperate justification for why you love tentacle cartoon porn.

You must be shocked, the world doesn't love Japanese culture?!!? HOW CAN IT BE.

Everyone is a pathetic japanese nerd.

How can it be that it is only you that has an issue? :whistling

No one else gives a flying feck. Japan would seem to be popular with kids because that is where all the games machines and a lot of the most popular technology (phones, MP3 players etc,) come from.

[thebazzla]

have you been upsetting people again biggles:)

[SpatulaGeekGirl]

Someone's really got their panties in a twist.

I don't get what you're so upset about. Every nation has their ups and downs. You seem especially concerned with their "cartoon porn". Every country has porn. In Japan, it's not that their more inclined to animated porn than live action porn specifically, it's just that a wider percentage of all their TV and movies are done in Animation.

Another reason that the Japs come across as perverted is because they don't have the same shame about sexuality. The idea that pornography is dirty and wrong is more of a western thing, mostly brought about by religion. In Japan, sex is the same as eating and sleeping. To them, it's a bodily function.

I suppose you could say (and I have the feeling you will) that this is still perversion. However, when it really comes down to it, despite Japan's obsession with panty shots and tentacles, they have far less rape than countries like the US or UK. In fact, criminal activities are overall lower.

[SAM]

NIPPON is the most advanced country in the world and Japaneses are among the most friendly people.

[WarrenBuffet]

it gotz teh ps3 with da blu ray

[chalice]

wat.

[Submission]

how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?

Most rape crimes are ignored by police.

Whatever technology you got from America is irrelevant when your culture is perverted and broken.

[chalice]

Why are you yapping about it on a file sharing forum.

Go right to the source and ask the horse.

I wouldn't think you were so much of a racist cunt if the Japanese were here to defend themselves. However, they're not.

So why don't you ask them, you racist cunt?

[Submission]

Why not?

Dont lie chalice you are Japanese. Explain to me how anyone who isn't Japanese gives a shit about racism?

BTW it isn't racism. I have nothing against Asians, just perverted Japanese culture.

[chalice]

Just because you're deluding yourself that you're not a racist doesn't make it so, you racist cunt.

I'm Irish btw.

Got any racism to throw my way, racist?

[callum]

Why not?

Dont lie chalice you are Japanese. Explain to me how anyone who isn't Japanese gives a shit about racism?

BTW it isn't racism. I have nothing against Asians, just perverted Japanese culture.

Where are you from?

[chalice]

Canada Callum.

Which is surprising because most of the Canadians on this board are sound as fuck and would most probably kick his balls (or lack of) right in if he behaved like that in real life.

As it is, he's just a racist cawk, hiding behind his flat screen.

[Defy]

They also farm gold, levels, and character items for MMORPGS such as World of Warcraft and EverQuest... or was that the Chinese? :P

[callum]

They also farm gold, levels, and character items for MMORPGS such as World of Warcraft and EverQuest... or was that the Chinese? :P

If only canadians had such skills :(

[Submission]

Just because you're deluding yourself that you're not a racist doesn't make it so, you racist cunt.

I'm Irish btw.

Got any racism to throw my way, racist?

Chalice stfu you aren't Irish. How sad are you that you cant admit to your real ethnicity?



Which is surprising because most of the Canadians on this board are sound as fuck and would most probably kick his balls (or lack of) right in if he behaved like that in real life.

Most Canadians dont give a shit about Japan. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[FatBob]

BTW it isn't racism. I have nothing against Asians, just perverted Japanese culture.

and how is that culture affecting you ?:dry:

[CrabGirl]

Another small-minded bigot abusing the freedom of speech we have here to preach his racist views. With his fixation on porn I'm willing to bet that he's a compulsive wanker/and or visits prostitutes (probably Japanese ones), and then gets ashamed of his mucky little habit.

I like the way that because people are pointing out what a shit he's being that he's accusing people of being Japanese (as if it's an accusation anyhow). Submission, people can defend injustice without being the subject of the injustice. I'm not a lesbian single-mother with one leg, but I'd stand up for the rights of lesbian single mothers if they were being discriminated against.

What a cunt.

[thebazzla]

i wish i had a pound for every time he mentioned Japanese, i could go on a holiday with the proceeds.

[Mr JP Fugley]

I'm not a lesbian single-mother with one leg, but I'd stand up for the rights of lesbian single mothers if they were being discriminated against.


What about the one-leggéd.

nazi

[CrabGirl]

I'm not a lesbian single-mother with one leg, but I'd stand up for the rights of lesbian single mothers if they were being discriminated against.


What about the one-leggéd.

nazi

Mate, I don't lean that way.

[Mr JP Fugley]

What about the one-leggéd.

nazi

Mate, I don't lean that way.

homophobe

[Alien5]

My question is why are computer nerds so in love with Japan? Is it the porn and cartoons? Or is Japan like geek country or something, im being serious too.
:ermm:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1070/spanneranleitungxc8.jpg

[kittybewm]

Is that the Japanese bible?

[Snee]

Another small-minded bigot abusing the freedom of speech we have here to preach his racist views. With his fixation on porn I'm willing to bet that he's a compulsive wanker/and or visits prostitutes (probably Japanese ones), and then gets ashamed of his mucky little habit.

I like the way that because people are pointing out what a shit he's being that he's accusing people of being Japanese (as if it's an accusation anyhow). Submission, people can defend injustice without being the subject of the injustice. I'm not a lesbian single-mother with one leg, but I'd stand up for the rights of lesbian single mothers if they were being discriminated against.

What a cunt.
I like the way he's completely ignoring the fact that people have given him plenty of non-porn-related reasons why "there's always some retarded fucker" who likes Japan, and for that matter reasons that have nothing to do with being a geek either, and, in SGG's case, even explained about the cartoon-porn he's so worked up about.

He also seems well content to completely ignore the fact that Japan is relatively safe, crime-wise.

Looking at some crime statistics just now, there's a massive difference in crimes cleared, between, say Japan and the U.S. (Japan having a much higher rate of that), and from what I understand, Canada is closer to the U.S. than Japan.

In addition to that, the crime rate is a also comparatively low one, overall.
This, of course, is also down to cultural differences. Those horrible horrible perverted Japanese focus on the collective, and family, rather than the individual, and to commit a crime is to bring shame over the whole, putting additional pressure on people not to commit crimes.

In conclusion, he's A): full of shit, and B): most likely a troll, oh and C): a bigot fuckhead.

EDit: haha, Canada was #5 in the world when it came to rapes commited per 100000 people in 2006.


EDit:
how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?
I did not know that. Mostly 'cos it's not true, technically.

In the real world, that varies between jurisdictions. In Tokyo the effective age of consent is 17 (I just googled for an example).

Canadian age of consent: 12/14/18 (http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm) lololol.

Most rape crimes are ignored by police.
I haven't found anything to back that statement up, at all.

[Snee]

Which is surprising because most of the Canadians on this board are sound as fuck and would most probably kick his balls (or lack of) right in if he behaved like that in real life.

Now you are so totally making shit up, most canadians on this board are lolboys.

Lolboys who probably like plenty of Japanese things, this is true, but they are hardly sound as fuck.

[chalice]

Which is surprising because most of the Canadians on this board are sound as fuck and would most probably kick his balls (or lack of) right in if he behaved like that in real life.

Now you are so totally making shit up, most canadians on this board are lolboys.

Lolboys who probably like plenty of Japanese things, this is true, but they are hardly sound as fuck.

Yep, them was just clever lies what I made up to get a point across. Don't ask me what that point was because that was yesterday and I'm busy working on new lies for today.

Damn you Snee and your damn eyes and brain that work. Damn you.

[Something Else]

I could've sworn I posted some abuse in this fred.
Deleted post. :unsure:

[chalice]

I could've sworn I posted some abuse in this fred.
Deleted post. :unsure:

It's never too late, mate. Don't wait, don't hesitate, sate your hate.

And other things rhyming with late, mate.

[Mr JP Fugley]

In conclusion, he's A): full of shit, and B): most likely a troll, oh and C): a bigot fuckhead.


B) Is a given, mate. The content and nature of the posts preclude anything else.

A) Is also a given. Even if someone is posting purely to troll they still have to be comfortable with posting racist comments, which this chap is. Therefore a racist, using racism as a source of personal amusement.

If A) and B) are true then C) must also be true. The only real question is which particular prick is it we're dealing with.

[100%]

I would like to go to Japan.

[Squeamous]

Japan is taking revenge for being atom bombed to fuck.

They can do what they want. Fair fucks to them.

If you don't like it, become part of the Japanese legal system and change it.

Otherwise, stfu, racist.

Article is 5 years old, but I imagine the main points still stand. (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/24/international/asia/24JAPA.html?ei=5007&en=53c7315175389e69&ex=1374379200&partner=USERLAND&pagewanted=all&position=)

WW2 casualties by nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WorldWarII-DeathsByCountry-Barchart.png)

[chalice]

Japan is taking revenge for being atom bombed to fuck.

They can do what they want. Fair fucks to them.

If you don't like it, become part of the Japanese legal system and change it.

Otherwise, stfu, racist.

Article is 5 years old, but I imagine the main points still stand. (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/24/international/asia/24JAPA.html?ei=5007&en=53c7315175389e69&ex=1374379200&partner=USERLAND&pagewanted=all&position=)

WW2 casualties by nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WorldWarII-DeathsByCountry-Barchart.png)

A lot of fucked up things happened in WW2, Squeamous. Russia sure didn't have much fun.

I know there is an argument which states that the bomb hastened Japan's surrender and so saved many lives but bombing civilians with experimental nukes just doesn't sit well with me. Even if they are into tentacle porn.

[Snee]

Japan is taking revenge for being atom bombed to fuck.

They can do what they want. Fair fucks to them.

If you don't like it, become part of the Japanese legal system and change it.

Otherwise, stfu, racist.

Article is 5 years old, but I imagine the main points still stand. (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/24/international/asia/24JAPA.html?ei=5007&en=53c7315175389e69&ex=1374379200&partner=USERLAND&pagewanted=all&position=)

Yes, it's not a place to stay and work, for most foreigners. Assuming they don't have a job on an army-base, or somesuch.

That, however doesn't mean that they don't have an interesting culture, that it isn't an interesting place to travel, or that any of the other positives listed in this thread don't stand.

Kudos on finding an actual negative, rather than the fuckery wrought by the smackhead who dreamt up this thread, though.


WW2 casualties by nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WorldWarII-DeathsByCountry-Barchart.png)
That only factors in immediate casualties.

Now, wrt the A-bomb, please feel free to add in the generations of children born with birth defects, and the disproportionally large number of people having died of cancer in the affected areas.

EDit: I should note that we're not talking any awesome numbers here, but thermonuclear devices have some seriously sneaky nasty side-effects, long-term.

[Squeamous]

I reckon that the allies had suffered so many losses by that point, both civilian and military, that they really didn't give a toss anymore. War brings out the worst in people, both causing them to be vengeful and desensitised to suffering. What I will say though is that there were 3 days between the two nukes.

[Squeamous]

Snee,

I was answering the point 'if you don't like it, become part of the legal system and change it' with that Japanese immigration article, nothing more.

I think the casualty figures are derived from the number of deaths caused during the period of conflict, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. Now, even assuming the birth defects and chronic deaths etc aren't factored in, I still doubt they would add up to a fraction of allied losses if they were. Russia lost 23.5 million civilians, Japan lost 2.5. Also, the repercussions of war are not limited to Japan or birth defects and cancer. Think of the millions who grew up in the shadow of poverty, without fathers or possibly mothers. The Japanese have no more right to complain about the unfairness of war than anyone else.

[chalice]

I don't really think that guy has the brains to make it through law school anyways, like.

It was more of a rhetorical fuck off kinda thing.

[Snee]

Snee,

I was answering the point 'if you don't like it, become part of the legal system and change it' with that Japanese immigration article, nothing more.
Fair enough, and a good point.



I think the casualty figures are derived from the number of deaths caused during the period of conflict, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. Now, even assuming the birth defects and chronic deaths etc aren't factored in, I still doubt they would add up to a fraction of allied losses if they were. Russia lost 23.5 million civilians, Japan lost 2.5. Also, the repercussions of war are not limited to Japan or birth defects and cancer. Think of the millions who grew up in the shadow of poverty, without fathers or possibly mothers. The Japanese have no more right to complain about the unfairness of war than anyone else.
Historically, they kinda' do have a pretty good excuse to be grumpy about it, after a fashion. Technically, afaik, they were turned into an expansionist empire by primarily US interests.

In the mid-1800s japan was forced to open trade with foreign nations, by a mostly american fleet of ironclads, kickstarting their turning from a tradionalist, extremely insular society, with few interests in matters outside of Japan (and even much of that came from europeans forcing their way in, after a fashion).

At the time of WWII they'd been building up steam, for nigh on a century, towards a confrontation with all the nations who'd been using them as a doormat at one point or another, with a fair bit of people reckoning that was the way to end that sort of thing, I imagine.

[Squeamous]

Hmm, well I would imagine that if they were so reluctant to trade with America they really ought to have found a more sensible way to oppose them than join a war in the most cowardly and incendiary way possible. Then, after suffering massive civilian casualties after the first nuclear attack, they might have thought of surrendering before the second hit.

In any case, they're doing pretty well out of being kicked into the global marketplace now, so I doubt they have much reason to complain about that.

[manicgeek]

Historically, they kinda' do have a pretty good excuse to be grumpy about it, after a fashion. Technically, afaik, they were turned into an expansionist empire by primarily US interests.

In the mid-1800s japan was forced to open trade with foreign nations, by a mostly american fleet of ironclads, kickstarting their turning from a tradionalist, extremely insular society, with few interests in matters outside of Japan (and even much of that came from europeans forcing their way in, after a fashion).

At the time of WWII they'd been building up steam, for nigh on a century, towards a confrontation with all the nations who'd been using them as a doormat at one point or another, with a fair bit of people reckoning that was the way to end that sort of thing, I imagine.

Bollocks! Cloud cuckoo land nice today is it ?

[Squeamous]

:lol:

Mornin' M

[manker]

Another reason that the Japs come across as perverted is because they don't have the same shame about sexuality. The idea that pornography is dirty and wrong is more of a western thing, mostly brought about by religion. In Japan, sex is the same as eating and sleeping. To them, it's a bodily function.A bodily function that is blurred out by a fecking mosaic. Even if it's a cartoon. Censored cartoon vaginas in a sea of raped and humiliated schoolgirls, it's insane.

Defacating is a bodily function and it isn't censored in Japan. Go to empornium to be regaled with a spycam in a Japanese public toilet and watch a local lady poo - BUT if the camera strays past the chocolate teddy bear's arm hanging from her distended anus to her inert fanny, it's mosaic city.

Draw your own conclusions re. shame about sexuality and perversion.


Fucking irrational censor happy Japanians. I agree with the thread starter.

Japan sucks.
Except for Snee - who is alright, for a Japanian.

[Biggles]

Another reason that the Japs come across as perverted is because they don't have the same shame about sexuality. The idea that pornography is dirty and wrong is more of a western thing, mostly brought about by religion. In Japan, sex is the same as eating and sleeping. To them, it's a bodily function.A bodily function that is blurred out by a fecking mosaic. Even if it's a cartoon. Censored cartoon vaginas in a sea of raped and humiliated schoolgirls, it's insane.

Defacating is a bodily function and it isn't censored in Japan. Go to empornium to be regaled with a spycam in a Japanese public toilet and watch a local lady poo - BUT if the camera strays past the chocolate teddy bear's arm hanging from her distended anus to her inert fanny, it's mosaic city.

Draw your own conclusions re. shame about sexuality and perversion.


Fucking irrational censor happy Japanians. I agree with the thread starter.

Japan sucks.
Except for Snee - who is alright, for a Japanian.

I think I follow that but I am not sure I want :unsure:

How does one know about these things one enquires?

[manker]

Research, Les.
Research :smilie4:

[Biggles]

Research, Les.
Research :smilie4:


Your scholarly ways are indeed legend.

[Barbarossa]

chocolate teddy bear's arm

Too much information :sick:

[lazybuttz]

someone please explain why this thread is here :D lol

[Squeamous]

Another reason that the Japs come across as perverted is because they don't have the same shame about sexuality. The idea that pornography is dirty and wrong is more of a western thing, mostly brought about by religion. In Japan, sex is the same as eating and sleeping. To them, it's a bodily function.A bodily function that is blurred out by a fecking mosaic. Even if it's a cartoon. Censored cartoon vaginas in a sea of raped and humiliated schoolgirls, it's insane.

Defacating is a bodily function and it isn't censored in Japan. Go to empornium to be regaled with a spycam in a Japanese public toilet and watch a local lady poo - BUT if the camera strays past the chocolate teddy bear's arm hanging from her distended anus to her inert fanny, it's mosaic city.

Draw your own conclusions re. shame about sexuality and perversion.


Fucking irrational censor happy Japanians. I agree with the thread starter.

Japan sucks.
Except for Snee - who is alright, for a Japanian.

I was thinking roughly the same thing but didn't know how to explain it.

There's also the way that Japanese men can be such chauvanist gits.....Japanese women are increasingly deciding to stay single in the cities because they now have prospects and don't need to take any shit. Apparently men still largely expect to be waited on and and foot even if their wife works. Then there's their inability to express love and affection (apparently).

A couple of my friends lived in Japan for a while and got thoroughly fed up of men trying to photograph up their skirts and feel them up in public.

[manker]

A bodily function that is blurred out by a fecking mosaic. Even if it's a cartoon. Censored cartoon vaginas in a sea of raped and humiliated schoolgirls, it's insane.

Defacating is a bodily function and it isn't censored in Japan. Go to empornium to be regaled with a spycam in a Japanese public toilet and watch a local lady poo - BUT if the camera strays past the chocolate teddy bear's arm hanging from her distended anus to her inert fanny, it's mosaic city.

Draw your own conclusions re. shame about sexuality and perversion.


Fucking irrational censor happy Japanians. I agree with the thread starter.

Japan sucks.
Except for Snee - who is alright, for a Japanian.

I was thinking roughly the same thing but didn't know how to explain it.

There's also the way that Japanese men can be such chauvanist gits.....Japanese women are increasingly deciding to stay single in the cities because they now have prospects and don't need to take any shit. Apparently men still largely expect to be waited on and and foot even if their wife works. Then there's their inability to express love and affection (apparently).

A couple of my friends lived in Japan for a while and got thoroughly fed up of men trying to photograph up their skirts and feel them up in public.Sounds awesome :P

The other thing that strikes me as weird is that in Japanese porn, the woman is never depicted as enjoying it. She is either forced or very submissive - even passive.
Why would that be unless the target market (Japanese blokes) wanted to see it.

From my eyrie in the western world, the Japanese attitude to sex seems particularly repressed and more than a little skewed toward the perverse.




I hardly watch it :mellow:

[Squeamous]

No, you're right. I got my OH some Japanese porn from Jlist a while ago and apart from the pixellated fannies which he really didn't appreciate, all the girls were dressed up like children, and were pulling these odd facial expressions like they were about to start crying.

At least in Western porn the women have the decency to pretend they're enjoying it :snooty:.

[Snee]

Historically, they kinda' do have a pretty good excuse to be grumpy about it, after a fashion. Technically, afaik, they were turned into an expansionist empire by primarily US interests.

In the mid-1800s japan was forced to open trade with foreign nations, by a mostly american fleet of ironclads, kickstarting their turning from a tradionalist, extremely insular society, with few interests in matters outside of Japan (and even much of that came from europeans forcing their way in, after a fashion).

At the time of WWII they'd been building up steam, for nigh on a century, towards a confrontation with all the nations who'd been using them as a doormat at one point or another, with a fair bit of people reckoning that was the way to end that sort of thing, I imagine.

Bollocks! Cloud cuckoo land nice today is it ?
Oh, STFU. Seriously. They wouldn't have it in them, if it hadn't been for others pushing them around.

Look at history, ffs. In the 1200s they raided China, but that was after a failed attempt at conquering japan by some Khan.

In the 1500s they fucked around with Korea for a bit, though. All on their own. They also did a bit of trading with the west, which lasted into the 1600s, even sent off emissaries to Europe, but afaik they weren't the ones to initiate contact, and they were hardly happy about having europeans there, especially not missionaries.

In the 1600s, though, they forbade construction of any ships that could cross the ocean, on pain of death, at that, and that lasted about two centuries and was intended to be a measure to cut off all contact with the west. Only contact they had with the west at all was with the Dutch, and that wasn't really something they asked for.

If it hadn't been for some merkin-tard parking a fleet inside of their border in 1854, they might still have been messing about with swords and horses at the time of WWII.

It was only after 1854 they started assimilating western technology with a vengeance, built a fleet and started wars, and even fought on the side of the allies in WWI.

I figure the only reason they were in any real wars during those years was because of western influences. Building an empire/a powerbase and waiting to expand further. Attacking the U.S. which yet wasn't commited to the war was the culmination of it, and it happened because the americans were seen as the big obstacle, or their rivals.

EDit: japan was still a feudal society, the technology they were handed was more advanced than their societal structure.

A medieval mindset never goes well with guns and bombs. Especially not when acquired after having them waved in your face for a bit first.

[SpatulaGeekGirl]

how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?

Most rape crimes are ignored by police.

Whatever technology you got from America is irrelevant when your culture is perverted and broken.

I know their age of consent is 13. I also know they have far fewer STIs and teenaged pregnancy than the US or UK.

Also, rape isn't ignored by police. Rape is considered a horrendous act in Japan, just as it is in the west. I did a little research, and the only inappropriate thing I can find about their stance on rape is the slightly short prison sentence (ranging from 2 to 15 years).

Overall, Japan is a decently moral country. The biggest problem you seem to have with them stems from your misinformed view that pornography leads to rape, and that more bountiful and explicit pornography leads to even more rape. It seems obvious to me from Japan's crime rate, of both violent and sexual crimes, that tv, movies and comic books have no negative effects on their culture, and might even have a positive, cathartic effect.

[SpatulaGeekGirl]

I was thinking roughly the same thing but didn't know how to explain it.

There's also the way that Japanese men can be such chauvanist gits.....Japanese women are increasingly deciding to stay single in the cities because they now have prospects and don't need to take any shit. Apparently men still largely expect to be waited on and and foot even if their wife works. Then there's their inability to express love and affection (apparently).

A couple of my friends lived in Japan for a while and got thoroughly fed up of men trying to photograph up their skirts and feel them up in public.Sounds awesome :P

The other thing that strikes me as weird is that in Japanese porn, the woman is never depicted as enjoying it. She is either forced or very submissive - even passive.
Why would that be unless the target market (Japanese blokes) wanted to see it.

From my eyrie in the western world, the Japanese attitude to sex seems particularly repressed and more than a little skewed toward the perverse.




I hardly watch it :mellow:

They're not NEVER depicted as enjoying it, I have seen the odd manga or two on 4chan where the girls look into it, but I think it's mostly a matter of perception. I don't think it's necessarily meant to depict that they're not enjoying it at all, it's just supposed to be a different expression of pleasure. It's strange that way, but from what I can gather it's meant to be a "caught up in the moment" and "over-whelmed" thing.

You do get some really strange stuff though. Guro is very surreal, and S'n'M hentai isn't rare by any standards.

[Snee]

how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?

Most rape crimes are ignored by police.

Whatever technology you got from America is irrelevant when your culture is perverted and broken.

I know their age of consent is 13.


It isn't usually that low in reality, though:



how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?
I did not know that. Mostly 'cos it's not true, technically.

In the real world, that varies between jurisdictions. In Tokyo the effective age of consent is 17 (I just googled for an example).

Canadian age of consent: 12/14/18 (http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm) lololol.

[Squeamous]

Hmmmm, I've seen some older lady porn from Japan and they look totally like they're enjoying it according to my Western understanding of what that is supposed to look like. It's only the girls who look about 12 years old who pull the 'caught up in the moment' face, usually dressed as a Japanese schoolgirl.

In my opinion it's supposed to be a look of wide-eyed innocence, a fantasy of a girl caught up in a situation with a grown man and rather than being abused, exploring all those wonderful sensations that she's obviously far too naive to understand. Truly pathetic......simply a male fantasy with no real basis in truth. This is common in Western Paedeophilic porn too....the type where a man wants to kid himself that it's not really abuse, that the girl is open to his advances no matter how old and ugly and fat he is because she's nothing more than a responsive sexual organ.

[Snee]

This is common in Western Paedeophilic porn too....

I'll have to take your word for it :mellow:

Don't really watch that kind of thing, myself :ermm:

[Squeamous]

This is common in Western Paedeophilic porn too....

I'll have to take your word for it :mellow:

Don't really watch that kind of thing, myself :ermm:

Yeah, I'm sure you're very naive :rolleyes:.

Here's an example. (http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=245787)

[Snee]

Yeah, see, that's like the first link in ages I'm not clicking on, on this board.

Pedo-pron does my head in, got suckered into some russian site with that kind of thing once, via some fucked up javascript that kept shunting me onward, and it made me want to stab someone.

[Squeamous]

Ah, sorry I should have said. It's literotica.com. No pictures....it's a story.

[Mr JP Fugley]

Yeah, see, that's like the first link in ages I'm not clicking on, on this board.

Pedo-pron does my head in, got suckered into some russian site with that kind of thing once, via some fucked up javascript that kept shunting me onward, and it made me want to stab someone.

Agreed, the pricks really are out in force in this thread.

[manicgeek]

They are now... hello JP... oh sorry you can't see this :lol:

[manicgeek]

Oh, STFU. Seriously. They wouldn't have it in them, if it hadn't been for others pushing them around.

Look at history, ffs. In the 1200s they raided China, but that was after a failed attempt at conquering japan by some Khan.

In the 1500s they fucked around with Korea for a bit, though. All on their own. They also did a bit of trading with the west, which lasted into the 1600s, even sent off emissaries to Europe, but afaik they weren't the ones to initiate contact, and they were hardly happy about having europeans there, especially not missionaries.

In the 1600s, though, they forbade construction of any ships that could cross the ocean, on pain of death, at that, and that lasted about two centuries and was intended to be a measure to cut off all contact with the west. Only contact they had with the west at all was with the Dutch, and that wasn't really something they asked for.

If it hadn't been for some merkin-tard parking a fleet inside of their border in 1854, they might still have been messing about with swords and horses at the time of WWII.

It was only after 1854 they started assimilating western technology with a vengeance, built a fleet and started wars, and even fought on the side of the allies in WWI.

I figure the only reason they were in any real wars during those years was because of western influences. Building an empire/a powerbase and waiting to expand further. Attacking the U.S. which yet wasn't commited to the war was the culmination of it, and it happened because the americans were seen as the big obstacle, or their rivals.

EDit: japan was still a feudal society, the technology they were handed was more advanced than their societal structure.

A medieval mindset never goes well with guns and bombs. Especially not when acquired after having them waved in your face for a bit first.

So let me get this right... that military superpower... that grand empire the Dutch forced the Japanese to trade with them did they... yeah right :lol:

Funny you didn't mention that the shogunate chose to trade with China as well... why would you chose to ignore a part of history that shows your personal interpretation to be crap... Hmmmm.....

[Snee]

Oh, STFU. Seriously. They wouldn't have it in them, if it hadn't been for others pushing them around.

Look at history, ffs. In the 1200s they raided China, but that was after a failed attempt at conquering japan by some Khan.

In the 1500s they fucked around with Korea for a bit, though. All on their own. They also did a bit of trading with the west, which lasted into the 1600s, even sent off emissaries to Europe, but afaik they weren't the ones to initiate contact, and they were hardly happy about having europeans there, especially not missionaries.

In the 1600s, though, they forbade construction of any ships that could cross the ocean, on pain of death, at that, and that lasted about two centuries and was intended to be a measure to cut off all contact with the west. Only contact they had with the west at all was with the Dutch, and that wasn't really something they asked for.

If it hadn't been for some merkin-tard parking a fleet inside of their border in 1854, they might still have been messing about with swords and horses at the time of WWII.

It was only after 1854 they started assimilating western technology with a vengeance, built a fleet and started wars, and even fought on the side of the allies in WWI.

I figure the only reason they were in any real wars during those years was because of western influences. Building an empire/a powerbase and waiting to expand further. Attacking the U.S. which yet wasn't commited to the war was the culmination of it, and it happened because the americans were seen as the big obstacle, or their rivals.

EDit: japan was still a feudal society, the technology they were handed was more advanced than their societal structure.

A medieval mindset never goes well with guns and bombs. Especially not when acquired after having them waved in your face for a bit first.

So let me get this right... that military superpower... that grand empire the Dutch forced the Japanese to trade with them did they... yeah right :lol:
Did not say forced. They just turned up, bit like missionaries.

It's entirely possible to be unwelcome but still be treated with respect.



Funny you didn't mention that the shogunate chose to trade with China as well... why would you chose to ignore a part of history that shows your personal interpretation to be crap... Hmmmm.....
That kind of does nothing of the sort, but anyway. Didn't have much to do with the west, or them acquiring western technology, or 1854 either, or WWII, but still, whatever makes you feel good, I guess. EDit: Or them turning expansionist.
EDit:
They kept both the chinese and the dutch on Dejima, off-shore, and the trading with the dutch consisted mainly, if not entirely, of low-tech stuff like silk for copper, as far as I can recall. It's been a while since I read up on it.

[Mr JP Fugley]

So let me get this right... that military superpower... that grand empire the Dutch forced the Japanese to trade with them did they... yeah right :lol:
Did not say forced. They just turned up, bit like missionaries.

It's entirely possible to unwelcome but still be treated with respect.



Funny you didn't mention that the shogunate chose to trade with China as well... why would you chose to ignore a part of history that shows your personal interpretation to be crap... Hmmmm.....
That kind of does nothing of the sort, but anyway. Didn't have much to do with the west, or them acquiring western technology, or 1854 either, or WWII, but still, whatever makes you feel good, I guess.

None of my business like, Snee.

However feeding trolls, particularly such obvious ones doesn't strike me as your style.

[Snee]

ocd :dabs:

I'll stop, sorry.

[manicgeek]

None of my business like, Snee.

However feeding trolls, particularly such obvious ones doesn't strike me as your style.

What is it with you JP... ?

That is the second time you have called me a troll... now I would suggest you put the fuck up and prove I'm a troll or STFU...

[Mr JP Fugley]

ocd :dabs:

I'll stop, sorry.

Matter for you, mate.

Just strikes me as a waste of your time.

[manicgeek]

Did not say forced. They just turned up, bit like missionaries.

It's entirely possible to be unwelcome but still be treated with respect.

That kind of does nothing of the sort, but anyway. Didn't have much to do with the west, or them acquiring western technology, or 1854 either, or WWII, but still, whatever makes you feel good, I guess. EDit: Or them turning expansionist.
EDit:
They kept both the chinese and the dutch on Dejima, off-shore, and the trading with the dutch consisted mainly, if not entirely, of low-tech stuff like silk for copper, as far as I can recall. It's been a while since I read up on it.

Well history would seem to disagree with you... some nice pictures of the Dutch here BTW... http://www.iisg.nl/exhibitions/japaneseprints/

Funny I thought Nagasaki was on the mainland.

[manicgeek]

Here you go Snee


Consensus among historians was once that Nagasaki was Japan's only window on the world during its time as a closed country in the Tokugawa era. However, nowadays it is generally accepted that this was not the case, since Japan interacted and traded with the Ryukyus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyus), Korea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea) and Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia) through Satsuma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satsuma), Tsushima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsushima) and the north of Honshū (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honsh%C5%AB) respectively. Nevertheless, Nagasaki was depicted in contemporary art and literature as a cosmopolitan port brimming with exotic curiosities from the Western World.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki,_Nagasaki#_note-CEJ)
And some more

The policy stated that the only European influence permitted was the Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands) factory (trading post) at Dejima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejima) in Nagasaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki%2C_Nagasaki). Trade with China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) was also handled at Nagasaki. In addition, trade with Korea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea) was conducted via the Tsushima Domain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsushima_Domain) (today part of Nagasaki Prefecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki_Prefecture)), with the Ainu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainu_people) via the Matsumae Domain (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Matsumae_Domain&action=edit) in Hokkaidō (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkaid%C5%8D), and with the Ryūkyū Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ry%C5%ABky%C5%AB_Kingdom) via the Satsuma Domain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satsuma_Domain) (in present-day Kagoshima Prefecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagoshima_Prefecture)). Apart from these direct commercial contacts in peripheral provinces, all of these countries sent regular tributary missions to the shogunate's seat in Edo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edo). As the emissaries traveled across Japan, Japanese citizens caught a glimpse of foreign cultures.

[SpatulaGeekGirl]

I know their age of consent is 13.


It isn't usually that low in reality, though:



how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?
I did not know that. Mostly 'cos it's not true, technically.

In the real world, that varies between jurisdictions. In Tokyo the effective age of consent is 17 (I just googled for an example).

Canadian age of consent: 12/14/18 (http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm) lololol.

Wells, I meant it can be, is whats I meant. :dabs:

[Snee]

Did not say forced. They just turned up, bit like missionaries.

It's entirely possible to be unwelcome but still be treated with respect.

That kind of does nothing of the sort, but anyway. Didn't have much to do with the west, or them acquiring western technology, or 1854 either, or WWII, but still, whatever makes you feel good, I guess. EDit: Or them turning expansionist.
EDit:
They kept both the chinese and the dutch on Dejima, off-shore, and the trading with the dutch consisted mainly, if not entirely, of low-tech stuff like silk for copper, as far as I can recall. It's been a while since I read up on it.

Well history would seem to disagree with you... some nice pictures of the Dutch here BTW... http://www.iisg.nl/exhibitions/japaneseprints/

Funny I thought Nagasaki was on the mainland.

:blink:


From the 1630s to the middle of the nineteenth century, Japan was practically closed to foreigners. The only Westerners allowed to stay in Japan and engage in trade were the Dutch. They had to submit to very strict regulations, however, and were only allowed to live on Deshima, a small artificial island in Nagasaki harbor

[manicgeek]

You might like to read post #105 Snee

[Barbarossa]

Must be a different definition of mainland, Japania being all islands and all :dabs:

[Snee]

Here you go Snee


Consensus among historians was once that Nagasaki was Japan's only window on the world during its time as a closed country in the Tokugawa era. However, nowadays it is generally accepted that this was not the case, since Japan interacted and traded with the Ryukyus, Korea and Russia through Satsuma, Tsushima and the north of Honshū respectively. Nevertheless, Nagasaki was depicted in contemporary art and literature as a cosmopolitan port brimming with exotic curiosities from the Western World.[2]

Exotic curiosities...yes, like a fleet of steam ships, and modern weaponry.

Oh, no, wait, that was after 1854, silly me.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the term the west, as I'm using it. I'm referring to Europe and the Americas, perhaps you've heard of them?..



And some more

The policy stated that the only European influence permitted was the Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands) factory (trading post) at Dejima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejima) in Nagasaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki%2C_Nagasaki). Trade with China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) was also handled at Nagasaki. In addition, trade with Korea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea) was conducted via the Tsushima Domain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsushima_Domain) (today part of Nagasaki Prefecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki_Prefecture)), with the Ainu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainu_people) via the Matsumae Domain (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Matsumae_Domain&action=edit) in Hokkaidō (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkaid%C5%8D), and with the Ryūkyū Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ry%C5%ABky%C5%AB_Kingdom) via the Satsuma Domain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satsuma_Domain) (in present-day Kagoshima Prefecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagoshima_Prefecture)). Apart from these direct commercial contacts in peripheral provinces, all of these countries sent regular tributary missions to the shogunate's seat in Edo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edo). As the emissaries traveled across Japan, Japanese citizens caught a glimpse of foreign cultures.

...doesn't quite sound like it.

They let emissaries from "local" nations travel to the shogunate seat AND did some trading with other countries in the region, though, that's got to mean something. Well, not really anything wrt what I've been saying, or them turning expansionist after having the merkins pressure them, but still.

EDit: Ryukyu was running frikkin Okinawa as late as 1879 according to wikipedia, I did not know that, kewl.

[manicgeek]

Snee

You might like to know that those poor ill educated and informed Japanese people who had western ways forced upon them actually taught western ways to their people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangaku

Mind you that kind of blows a hole in your theory about their feudal society not being able to cope with western knowledge and technologies... sorry about that.

[Snee]

None of my business like, Snee.

However feeding trolls, particularly such obvious ones doesn't strike me as your style.

What is it with you JP... ?

That is the second time you have called me a troll... now I would suggest you put the fuck up and prove I'm a troll or STFU...


...

Bollocks! Cloud cuckoo land nice today is it ?
Would sort of suggest that you are looking to be offensive rather than discuss something that you personally percieve to be a flawed assertion, as would the subsequent selective reading done by your very self later on.

But what do I know.

[manicgeek]

Exotic curiosities...yes, like a fleet of steam ships, and modern weaponry.

Oh, no, wait, that was after 1854, silly me.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the term the west, as I'm using it. I'm referring to Europe and the Americas, perhaps you've heard of them?..

Nope... there's no mention of steam ships in what I posted... or modern weaponry... are you sure you're replying to the right thread ?

...doesn't quite sound like it.

They let emissaries from "local" nations travel to the shogunate seat AND did some trading with other countries in the region, though, that's got to mean something. Well, not really anything wrt what I've been saying, or them turning expansionist after having the merkins pressure them, but still.

EDit: Ryukyu was running frikkin Okinawa as late as 179 according to wikipedia, I did not know that, kewl.

Hmmm funny how they knew all about our ways before they opened up trade... yet only turned expansionist as the shogunate collapsed... not that the collapse of the shogunate could possibly have anything to do with the change in Japans relationship with the world... I mean it was only them who imposed by military force and massacres the closure of trade to begin with wasn't it ?

They considered foreign influence to be a forerunner to a western invasion of Japan... yet they set up schools and taught western sciences and medicine... so it wasn't that they weren't happy to trade with others... they just liked the security of dealing with people they knew then ?

[manicgeek]

Would sort of suggest that you are looking to be offensive rather than discuss something that you personally percieve to be a flawed assertion, as would the subsequent selective reading done by your very self later on.

But what do I know.

Ah! Selective.. like not mentioning the Chinese you mean, or ignoring the Japanese setting up schools and educating their people in western ways and technology... that kind of selective you mean ?

You may not like that I'm blunt, just as JP apparently can't handle it, that's hardly my problem.

JP not up to putting his money where his mouth is then is it ?

[manicgeek]

In fact I'll tell you why I was so blunt... your post, the one I responded to was insulting to the Japanese, to suggest that they couldn't handle western ways and technology, when in reality they were actually better educated in our ways and technology than most nations of the pacific region at that time, indeed it was their very knowledge of our ways and technology that allowed them to exercise their expansionist dreams.

[Snee]

Snee

You might like to know that those poor ill educated and informed Japanese people who had western ways forced upon them actually taught western ways to their people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangaku

Mind you that kind of blows a hole in your theory about their feudal society not being able to cope with western knowledge and technologies... sorry about that.

First of all, a feudal society implies a certain structure, not a level of knowledge "poor ill educated and informed" has exactly fuckall to do with societal structure, literacy and so forth.

Second of all, knowledge in medicine, architecture indoor-plumbing, basic science, microscopes and so forth does not equal bluprints for instruments of war. It can be argued that rangaku helped build a foundation for the rampant modernization after 1854 (1853 really, bakamatsu as that article calls it started then, after Perry's first visit), this is true, but the first actual steamship Japan had, for instance, was given to them in 1855 by the dutch, other ships were built for them by the british, and at the same time they'd started sending people off to check out the rest of the world.

Try as you might, there's no disputing that they did turn from insular to expansionist after 1854, having had a fleet of modern warships paraded in front of them, and that that's when they started building a modern army.

[Snee]

Would sort of suggest that you are looking to be offensive rather than discuss something that you personally percieve to be a flawed assertion, as would the subsequent selective reading done by your very self later on.

But what do I know.

Ah! Selective.. like not mentioning the Chinese you mean, or ignoring the Japanese setting up schools and educating their people in western ways and technology... that kind of selective you mean?
I'm beginning to think you are a bit thick, tbh.



In fact I'll tell you why I was so blunt... your post, the one I responded to was insulting to the Japanese, to suggest that they couldn't handle western ways and technology, when in reality they were actually better educated in our ways and technology than most nations of the pacific region at that time, indeed it was their very knowledge of our ways and technology that allowed them to exercise their expansionist dreams.
Same goes for this.^

Sorry 'bout being blunt, but I think you are a bit of a jackass.

[manicgeek]

First of all, a feudal society implies a certain structure, not a level of knowledge "poor ill educated and informed" has exactly fuckall to do with societal structure, literacy and so forth.

Second of all, knowledge in medicine, architecture indoor-plumbing, basic science, microscopes and so forth does not equal bluprints for instruments of war. It can be argued that rangaku helped build a foundation for the rampant modernization after 1854 (1853 really, bakamatsu as that article calls it started then, after Perry's first visit), this is true, but the first actual steamship Japan had, for instance, was given to them in 1855 by the dutch, other ships were built for them by the british, and at the same time they'd started sending people off to check out the rest of the world.

Try as you might, there's no disputing that they did turn from insular to expansionist after 1854, having had a fleet of modern warships paraded in front of them, and that that's when they started building a modern army.

No you portrayed them as having been backwards and ill informed, unable to cope with the technology and the knowledge, and that was wrong because they weren't. Their expansionist dreams and acts where theirs and theirs alone.

I know it's popular in western countries at the moment to blame the west for everything bad that has ever happened to anyone, anywhere, at anytime, but that is a load of bollock. There are bad people the world over, there have been bad people the world over since time began, and there will always be bad people the world over. Blaming the west for it won't change anything.

[manicgeek]

I'm beginning to think you are a bit thick, tbh.

Same goes for this.^

Sorry 'bout being blunt, but I think you are a bit of a jackass.

So you are from the same mold as JP then :yup:

One of them who comes on the internet and spouts crap and resorts to name calling when your arguments are challenged... Hmmm big clever man eh ? :lol:

[Squeamous]

I think what Snee was saying was that the Japanese have every right to have a complex against the West since the West apparently dragged them kicking and screaming into the 20th century and bombed the fuck out of them in WW2.

I think that's probably just as you say, the result of having a Western guilt complex. As I've said a few pages back, the Japanese are doing exceptionally well out of being a world power and I've never got the impression there's any bitterness towards the West in that regard. They will keep bleating on about the atom bombs but if they weren't such a proud people only one of those bombs need have gone off, and it was their choice to enter WW2 anyway.

Throughout history nations and empires have been exposed to external influence. It's how the world moves on. To suggest that anyone has a right to be upset about that is a nonsense.

[manicgeek]

I think what Snee was saying was that the Japanese have every right to have a complex against the West since the West apparently dragged them kicking and screaming into the 20th century and bombed the fuck out of them in WW2.

I think that's probably just as you say, the result of having a Western guilt complex. As I've said a few pages back, the Japanese are doing exceptionally well out of being a world power and I've never got the impression there's any bitterness towards the West in that regard. They will keep bleating on about the atom bombs but if they weren't such a proud people only one of those bombs need have gone off, and it was their choice to enter WW2 anyway.

Throughout history nations and empires have been exposed to external influence. It's how the world moves on. To suggest that anyone has a right to be upset about that is a nonsense.
Then I think that Snee could benefit from trying to find out about the culture of he Japanese and the Chinese, indeed all Asian peoples. Historically their culture has developed in its own way, and the way that they chose to interact with other people is very much a part of their culture as is the way they view the actions of other people.

Portraying them as backwards or ill-informed because you don't understand how they think, or what their value system is, or because you have some kind of misplaced/misguided guilt complex over things that were done by your forebears is insulting to say the least, to your forebears as much as to the Japanese.

I'm afraid his comments are no better than the kind of thing said about African peoples and their ways by ill-informed western people who believe that everyone must comply with western values.

[Biggles]

Beats me why Snee is taking any flak over this as he was the one arguing against the original negative posting regarding Japanese culture. Even the most cursory glance through Snee's posts over the years would demonstrate that he is one of the least culturally imperialist posters on here.

Blunt is fine - lots of us are - but generally it is better to be blunt from a position of knowledge regarding the other poster's position rather than simply being blunt for the sake of it - unless you are Billy Dean obviousment.

Prior to the 19th century Japan was a feudal society and had (still has) a rich and unique culture. As Snee rightly points out feudal is a system of land ownership and patronage not a statement regarding technological ability. Japan was insular in all senses of the word but could see the advantages of utilising Western technology. At the same time the 19th century was an era of Empire. The US was expanding its influence westwards and European powers were grabbing bits of the Far East. The Russians had serious ambitions in the area too. It is not surprising that the Japanese felt uneasy about these incursions into their sphere of influence. The war against China in 1895 and Russia in 1904 (and the serious kicking inflicted on the Tsar's butt) proved to them that they had the resources and skills to call the shots in the region but tensions remained with the US and others in the region. In this respect Japanese Imperial ambitions were no different from that of Russia, Europe and the US. Although Empire was dying as a concept in the West post 1919 the wheels did not fall off that particular bogie until 1945 for Japan. It is possible to overstate militarism in Japanese society by concentrating on an modern Empire period that lasted little more than 50 years. That horrible things were done in the pusuit of that Empire is undeniable - it seems to go with the territory of Empire building and conquest.

PS wasn't aware the Swedes had that much to be guilty about in respect of Empire.

[Squeamous]

That's an interesting history lesson Biggles, but does it have to do with the point?

Snee's point was that the Japanese have every right to feel negatively about their treatment at the hands of the West due to being bullied by the bigger boys and then nuked.

I'm not expecting him to take any flak at all for anything. I thought I was just arguing against that point.

[Biggles]

I was demonstrating that Japan had encountered the negative as well as the positive aspects of Imperial expansion and that Snee's point that this had encouraged their own military expansion was not an unsound one.

The use of nuclear weapons is another matter and one that was controversial at the time. Yes, it hurried the end of the war but there is much in the argument that the primary aim was to prevent the Russian army entering from the north of Japan resulting in another iron curtain in another part of the world. Peace negotians were already under way and a wholesale bloody invasion was not likely to happen. A fact that supports the view that the bombs had a broader political purpose was that the key demand of the Japanese in the peace overtures (that the Emperor stay) was granted despite Japan's "unconditional" surrender after the bombing. However, that is by and by.

WTF were we talking about again - how did we get to tentacle pron to this? :unsure:

[manicgeek]

Beats me why Snee is taking any flak over this as he was the one arguing against the original negative posting regarding Japanese culture. Even the most cursory glance through Snee's posts over the years would demonstrate that he is one of the least culturally imperialist posters on here.

Because he makes statements like this
In the mid-1800s japan was forced to open trade with foreign nations, by a mostly american fleet of ironclads, kickstarting their turning from a tradionalist, extremely insular society, with few interests in matters outside of Japan (and even much of that came from europeans forcing their way in, after a fashion).
And this
If it hadn't been for some merkin-tard parking a fleet inside of their border in 1854, they might still have been messing about with swords and horses at the time of WWII.
And this
It was only after 1854 they started assimilating western technology with a vengeance, built a fleet and started wars, and even fought on the side of the allies in WWI.
And this
I figure the only reason they were in any real wars during those years was because of western influences.
Whilst ignoring so much of history, he ignores that Japan had been trading with other nations the whole time, he ignores that they had actually set up a schools system to teach western technology and knowledge, he ignores that they'd actually traded technology with Americans before the shogunate collapsed.

He portrays them as insular and with few interests in matters outside of Japan, and ignores the fact that Japanese people of that time weren't allowed to leave Japan, he goes onto say that they'd still have been playing with swords and horses if it wasn't for the west... forcing ourselves and ways upon them. In short he ignored large parts of history and portrayed them as backwards and ill-informed when the complete opposite is true, and he did this to support his ill founded personal theory that Japanese people feel some kind of animosity towards the west... FFS



Blunt is fine - lots of us are - but generally it is better to be blunt from a position of knowledge regarding the other poster's position rather than simply being blunt for the sake of it - unless you are Billy Dean obviousment.
I'm afraid JP doesn't agree with you... in fact many people don't seem to agree with you... blunt isn't fine according to them. Maybe you should try and sell that to them, I personally gave up giving a fuck a while ago.


Prior to the 19th century Japan was a feudal society and had (still has) a rich and unique culture. As Snee rightly points out feudal is a system of land ownership and patronage not a statement regarding technological ability. Japan was insular in all senses of the word but could see the advantages of utilising Western technology. At the same time the 19th century was an era of Empire. The US was expanding its influence westwards and European powers were grabbing bits of the Far East. The Russians had serious ambitions in the area too. It is not surprising that the Japanese felt uneasy about these incursions into their sphere of influence. The war against China in 1895 and Russia in 1904 (and the serious kicking inflicted on the Tsar's butt) proved to them that they had the resources and skills to call the shots in the region but tensions remained with the US and others in the region. In this respect Japanese Imperial ambitions were no different from that of Russia, Europe and the US. Although Empire was dying as a concept in the West post 1919 the wheels did not fall off that particular bogie until 1945 for Japan. It is possible to overstate militarism in Japanese society by concentrating on an modern Empire period that lasted little more than 50 years. That horrible things were done in the pusuit of that Empire is undeniable - it seems to go with the territory of Empire building and conquest.

PS wasn't aware the Swedes had that much to be guilty about in respect of Empire.No mention of the expansionist ambitions of the Japanese before the shogunate closed off Japan to foreign contact and virtually imprisoned the people of Japan then, or of the massacres that were committed of Japanese people who dared to become Christian 30,000 wasn't it... sliced and diced according to the 'warriors way' eh?

[Something Else]

Would calling you a cunt be blunt. :unsure:

No reason, like. :ermm:

[Squeamous]

I was demonstrating that Japan had encountered the negative as well as the positive aspects of Imperial expansion and that Snee's point that this had encouraged their own military expansion was not an unsound one.

The use of nuclear weapons is another matter and one that was controversial at the time. Yes, it hurried the end of the war but there is much in the argument that the primary aim was to prevent the Russian army entering from the north of Japan resulting in another iron curtain in another part of the world. Peace negotians were already under way and a wholesale bloody invasion was not likely to happen. A fact that supports the view that the bombs had a broader political purpose was that the key demand of the Japanese in the peace overtures (that the Emperor stay) was granted despite Japan's "unconditional" surrender after the bombing. However, that is by and by.

WTF were we talking about again - how did we get to tentacle pron to this? :unsure:

Mmmm, but the words 'key demand' are important here. That wasn't their only demand. What they basically wanted was to save face, and to surrender in deed but not in name. They wanted to keep a lot of their infrastructure and politics operating not just their monarchy. I'm not surprised the cheeky bastards got nuked a second time.

[manicgeek]

Would calling you a cunt be blunt. :unsure:

No reason, like. :ermm:
Do you think it's blunt ?

Is it blunt if I call myself a cunt... you know like I'm a cunt... is that blunt in your eyes?

[Something Else]

Nope. Sharp as a lizzard. :smilie4:

[Biggles]

No mention of the expansionist ambitions of the Japanese before the shogunate closed off Japan to foreign contact and virtually imprisoned the people of Japan then, or of the massacres that were committed of Japanese people who dared to become Christian 30,000 wasn't it... sliced and diced according to the 'warriors way' eh?

Which position are you taking - that they were open to Western influence prior to Imperial incursions into the Far East or that they were insular and tended to view foreign influence with a degree of hostility?

The Chinese did not exactly go a bundle on foreign influences either but like the Japanese were interested in trade and science. Would the Japanese have contemplated war with America in 41 if US influence had not extended across the Pacific?

[Something Else]

/Moved to drawing room as it's too early and your giving me a headache.

[Squeamous]

No mention of the expansionist ambitions of the Japanese before the shogunate closed off Japan to foreign contact and virtually imprisoned the people of Japan then, or of the massacres that were committed of Japanese people who dared to become Christian 30,000 wasn't it... sliced and diced according to the 'warriors way' eh?

Which position are you taking - that they were open to Western influence prior to Imperial incursions into the Far East or that they were insular and tended to view foreign influence with a degree of hostility?

The Chinese did not exactly go a bundle on foreign influences either but like the Japanese were interested in trade and science. Would the Japanese have contemplated war with America in 41 if US influence had not extended across the Pacific?

I'm sure if no-one ever came into contact with anyone else there would never be any wars.

I don't know how this particular branch of the discussion got going or what purpose it serves.

Is the question 'is America at fault for Japan joining in in WW2'?

[Biggles]

I was demonstrating that Japan had encountered the negative as well as the positive aspects of Imperial expansion and that Snee's point that this had encouraged their own military expansion was not an unsound one.

The use of nuclear weapons is another matter and one that was controversial at the time. Yes, it hurried the end of the war but there is much in the argument that the primary aim was to prevent the Russian army entering from the north of Japan resulting in another iron curtain in another part of the world. Peace negotians were already under way and a wholesale bloody invasion was not likely to happen. A fact that supports the view that the bombs had a broader political purpose was that the key demand of the Japanese in the peace overtures (that the Emperor stay) was granted despite Japan's "unconditional" surrender after the bombing. However, that is by and by.

WTF were we talking about again - how did we get to tentacle pron to this? :unsure:

Mmmm, but the words 'key demand' are important here. That wasn't their only demand. What they basically wanted was to save face, and to surrender in deed but not in name. They wanted to keep a lot of their infrastructure and politics operating not just their monarchy. I'm not surprised the cheeky bastards got nuked a second time.

True but under unconditional surrender you get nowt. The ruling powers of Japan fared rather better than those of Germany.

[Something Else]

You two should have a game of Go to settle it. :eyebrows:

[Squeamous]

True but under unconditional surrender you get nowt. The ruling powers of Japan fared rather better than those of Germany.

Mmmmm, under unconditional surrender the victor gets to say what you get, that's all.

Do you not think Germany had a lot more to answer for?

[Biggles]

Which position are you taking - that they were open to Western influence prior to Imperial incursions into the Far East or that they were insular and tended to view foreign influence with a degree of hostility?

The Chinese did not exactly go a bundle on foreign influences either but like the Japanese were interested in trade and science. Would the Japanese have contemplated war with America in 41 if US influence had not extended across the Pacific?

I'm sure if no-one ever came into contact with anyone else there would never be any wars.

I don't know how this particular branch of the discussion got going or what purpose it serves.

Is the question 'is America at fault for Japan joining in in WW2'?

Not sure to be honest - Snee was pointing out that modern Japan was nothing like as bad as Submission was suggesting and got picked up on a comment regarding the history of Japan which has wheeled the whole discussion well away from the much more fascinating topic of tentacle pron (which as far as I am aware can never actually happen irl).

[manicgeek]

Which position are you taking - that they were open to Western influence prior to Imperial incursions into the Far East or that they were insular and tended to view foreign influence with a degree of hostility?

The Chinese did not exactly go a bundle on foreign influences either but like the Japanese were interested in trade and science. Would the Japanese have contemplated war with America in 41 if US influence had not extended across the Pacific?

Oh mine is a simple position, the Japanese weren't ill-informed, they weren't backwards. The shogunate collapsed and Japan again looked outwards as they had before. Now you may argue that the American squadron hastened the collapse of the shogunate, in which case surely you'd be arguing for the facts that by doing so the Americans returned freedom to the people of Japan, who were virtually imprisoned by the shogunate.

[Squeamous]

Not sure to be honest - Snee was pointing out that modern Japan was nothing like as bad as Submission was suggesting and got picked up on a comment regarding the history of Japan which has wheeled the whole discussion well away from the much more fascinating topic of tentacle pron (which as far as I am aware can never actually happen irl).

Nah, what started this was his response to me. I was saying the Japs didn't have any right to be more upset than anyone else about WW2, nuke or no. He countered by saying they've always been bullied by the rest of the world etc etc. There followed a Wiki-based argument where two people selectively pull bits out of net sources in an attempt to prove their point. I have failed to bring the discussion around to the original point.

What's tentacle porn?

[Biggles]

True but under unconditional surrender you get nowt. The ruling powers of Japan fared rather better than those of Germany.

Mmmmm, under unconditional surrender the victor gets to say what you get, that's all.

Do you not think Germany had a lot more to answer for?

Japan was responsible for some naughty stuff too. I do lean towards the view that the surrender and the role of the nuclear weapons were not a complete match and that the US had a broader political purpose in utilising the weapons. One might view this as immoral or amoral but the Red Army had become a formidable force and Truman needed a lever in negotiating the post war world with Stalin.

[Biggles]

Not sure to be honest - Snee was pointing out that modern Japan was nothing like as bad as Submission was suggesting and got picked up on a comment regarding the history of Japan which has wheeled the whole discussion well away from the much more fascinating topic of tentacle pron (which as far as I am aware can never actually happen irl).

Nah, what started this was his response to me. I was saying the Japs didn't have any right to be more upset than anyone else about WW2, nuke or no. He countered by saying they've always been bullied by the rest of the world etc etc. There followed a Wiki-based argument where two people selectively pull bits out of net sources in an attempt to prove their point. I have failed to bring the discussion around to the original point.

What's tentacle porn?

Wiki arguments are cool :shifty:

The Japanese have a fetish for tentacle sex - must be all the seafood :idunno: Obviously this is not a practical proposition irl but I am informed it is popular in cartoons - so SGG tells me anyhoo. :unsure:

[Squeamous]

Japan really wasn't in the same league as Germany Biggles. Germany was not only directly responsible for the war but it's governing structure was responsible for apalling suffering all over Europe. None of that could be feasibly left intact. Most of the people in charge were either killed in conflict, executed, committed suicide or were prosecuted for war crimes.

I tend to think that 3 days is a very long time in war to hold out before a second strike, especially if you have ulterior motives beyond surrender for making it. As to the first strike, well I go back to a past point. When an era loses so many people to war it dehumanises the living. I doubt there was much sympathy for the Japs and I completely understand why. And I'm sure the benefits off letting off those nukes were manyfold. That doesn't mean they were all the cause or rational for it.

[Squeamous]

Wiki arguments are cool :shifty:

The Japanese have a fetish for tentacle sex - must be all the seafood :idunno: Obviously this is not a practical proposition irl but I am informed it is popular in cartoons - so SGG tells me anyhoo. :unsure:

I'll never look at LOTR the Fellowship in the same way again :unsure:.

[Biggles]

Which position are you taking - that they were open to Western influence prior to Imperial incursions into the Far East or that they were insular and tended to view foreign influence with a degree of hostility?

The Chinese did not exactly go a bundle on foreign influences either but like the Japanese were interested in trade and science. Would the Japanese have contemplated war with America in 41 if US influence had not extended across the Pacific?

Oh mine is a simple position, the Japanese weren't ill-informed, they weren't backwards. The shogunate collapsed and Japan again looked outwards as they had before. Now you may argue that the American squadron hastened the collapse of the shogunate, in which case surely you'd be arguing for the facts that by doing so the Americans returned freedom to the people of Japan, who were virtually imprisoned by the shogunate.


I don't believe Snee's position is that they were backward or ill informed either but that their reaction to US intervention was one of a people who had become accustomed to an insular view of foreign intervention. They subsequently embraced an aspect of politics that was popular at the time - Empire.

One might view the US role as liberating or one might consider it an ongoing process of securing influence in the region (or indeed a bit of both).

[Biggles]

Wiki arguments are cool :shifty:

The Japanese have a fetish for tentacle sex - must be all the seafood :idunno: Obviously this is not a practical proposition irl but I am informed it is popular in cartoons - so SGG tells me anyhoo. :unsure:

I'll never look at LOTR the Fellowship in the same way again :unsure:.

:unsure: There was a donkey too OMG!

[chalice]

I suppose I'll have to take responsibility for igniting this fire-cracker string of debate.

I was just pissed off because Submission was displaying racism. To date, he has started three threads decrying Japanese culture when one would have sufficed.

I was just endeavouring to tell him to stfu, albeit, somewhat ineptly, it now appears.

Sorry peeps. Also sorry for any errors in this post. I don't have spellcheck at work.

[Mr JP Fugley]

I suppose I'll have to take responsibility for igniting this fire-cracker string of debate.

I was just pissed off because Submission was displaying racism. To date, he has started three threads decrying Japanese culture when one would have sufficed.

I was just endeavouring to tell him to stfu, albeit, somewhat ineptly, it now appears.

Sorry peeps. Also sorry for any errors in this post. I don't have spellcheck at work.

Sorry if i'm stating the obvious here, however you must know that the peson behind the Submission character is using more than one persona here. All pricks obviously, but still using more than one persona.

[chalice]

I suppose I'll have to take responsibility for igniting this fire-cracker string of debate.

I was just pissed off because Submission was displaying racism. To date, he has started three threads decrying Japanese culture when one would have sufficed.

I was just endeavouring to tell him to stfu, albeit, somewhat ineptly, it now appears.

Sorry peeps. Also sorry for any errors in this post. I don't have spellcheck at work.

Sorry if i'm stating the obvious here, however you must know that the peson behind the Submission character is using more than one persona here. All pricks obviously, but still using more than one persona.

Perhaps I'm being naive, JP.

But I'm taking the posts at face value until things have been proved otherwise.

I'm not saying you're wrong, like.

[Mr JP Fugley]

Sorry if i'm stating the obvious here, however you must know that the peson behind the Submission character is using more than one persona here. All pricks obviously, but still using more than one persona.

Perhaps I'm being naive, JP.

But I'm taking the posts at face value until things have been proved otherwise.

I'm not saying you're wrong, like.

Fair do's mate, disparate pricks it is. Makes little difference in the great scheme of things.

Gonnae no say "proved otherwise" tho' it really dead annoys me. Not saying it's wrong or anything it just grates on my nerves.

[Biggles]

Not Billy then? :shifty:

[chalice]

Gonnae no say "proved otherwise" tho' it really dead annoys me. Not saying it's wrong or anything it just grates on my nerves.

I mark that one down for future reference then. :happy:

[manicgeek]

I don't believe Snee's position is that they were backward or ill informed either but that their reaction to US intervention was one of a people who had become accustomed to an insular view of foreign intervention. They subsequently embraced an aspect of politics that was popular at the time - Empire.

One might view the US role as liberating or one might consider it an ongoing process of securing influence in the region (or indeed a bit of both).

I think you'll find if you go and look that history shows they were expansionist (Empire builders) before their enforced isolation. So they couldn't possibly have embraced a political aspect that they had been living by for centuries before their isolation. Their Empirical ambitions had nothing to do with western influence, they merely returned to their militaristic expansionist ways.

[Barbarossa]

Not Billy then? :shifty:

As far as I can tell, no, but I could be wrong :idunno:

[Biggles]

I don't believe Snee's position is that they were backward or ill informed either but that their reaction to US intervention was one of a people who had become accustomed to an insular view of foreign intervention. They subsequently embraced an aspect of politics that was popular at the time - Empire.

One might view the US role as liberating or one might consider it an ongoing process of securing influence in the region (or indeed a bit of both).


I think you'll find if you go and look that history shows they were expansionist (Empire builders) before their enforced isolation. So they couldn't possibly have embraced a political aspect that they had been living by for centuries before their isolation. Their Empirical ambitions had nothing to do with western influence, they merely returned to their militaristic expansionist ways.

As I remember it Japan had very little territorial activity outwith its own borders apart a couple of advetures in Korea. In comparison to most countries it did not engage in a lot of conquest. It was quite often at war with itself though and numerous dynasties and war lords ruled the country. The self imposed seclusion was maybe a bit odd but it was the antithesis of European and US expansion. The US naval blockade and resultant treaty that opened the country was a source of considerable anger and (importantly) shame in Japan. That opening up Japan to trade might have been a good thing did not negate the dishonour felt by a forced treaty. If we are to look at Japanese history and culture seriously we must consider the cultural impact of the US actions as well as the purely economic. The follow on from opening Japan up was a Government that was much more outward looking and obsessed with military power. In this respect the US set off a chain of events that ultimately resulted in Pearl Harbour - although to be fair there was no way that this could have been predicted at the time.

[manker]

As I remember it Japan had very little territorial activity outwith its own borders apart a couple of advetures in Korea. Tell the truth now, Les. How old are you.

[Barbarossa]

I dunno, but Methuselah was his fag at school, apparently.

[Biggles]

As I remember it Japan had very little territorial activity outwith its own borders apart a couple of advetures in Korea. Tell the truth now, Les. How old are you.


A bit + some

:snooty: doesn't make you a bad person like.

[Mr JP Fugley]

As I remember it Japan had very little territorial activity outwith its own borders apart a couple of advetures in Korea. Tell the truth now, Les. How old are you.

Les = Hero.

He's actually only 23 but has flitted thro' space and time.

[Biggles]

Tell the truth now, Les. How old are you.

Les = Hero.

He's actually only 23 but has flitted thro' space and time.

It takes its toll but

[manicgeek]

As I remember it Japan had very little territorial activity outwith its own borders apart a couple of advetures in Korea.
China, India... in fact their 'little territorial activity outwith its own borders' was only after the Koreans refused to become tributary to Japan and join them in their war against China.

Oh and that war was about making parts of China tributary to Japan as well...

[Biggles]

As I remember it Japan had very little territorial activity outwith its own borders apart a couple of advetures in Korea.
China, India... in fact their 'little territorial activity outwith its own borders' was only after the Koreans refused to become tributary to Japan and join them in their war against China.

Oh and that war was about making parts of China tributary to Japan as well...

:mellow: Which period?

[manicgeek]

:mellow: Which period?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasions_of_Korea_%281592-1598%29

They were expansionist before isolation.

[Biggles]

That was the war I spoke of.

As far as I am aware that was the limit of Japanese external aggression prior to the late 19th century. They were attacked a couple of times by the Mongols but saw off the invasions. Other than that very little. Compared to the expansionism of the European countries and later the US, the Japanese do not figure on the international scene at all.

In 1692 they might have spoke of conquering Korea, China and India but the fact is they lost in Korea in 1698 and returned home for 250 years. As expansionist countries go they were not big players.

[manicgeek]

That was the war I spoke of.

As far as I am aware that was the limit of Japanese external aggression prior to the late 19th century. They were attacked a couple of times by the Mongols but saw off the invasions. Other than that very little. Compared to the expansionism of the European countries and later the US, the Japanese do not figure on the international scene at all.

In 1692 they might have spoke of conquering Korea, China and India but the fact is they lost in Korea in 1698 and returned home for 250 years. As expansionist countries go they were not big players.
They had expansionist ambitions before their self-imposed isolation. That war was actually three wars with Korea and one with China, all committed to make themselves top of the tree in Asiatic thinking... basically to become the Asian empire leaders. Their expansionist ambitions existed before the isolation and they probably hated being thought of as the Junior nation for the entire time of their isolation, which is the reasonable explanation for their wars with China and the Russians immediately their self-imposed isolation ended. They picked up where they left off.

What's very interesting about this whole discussion is that Snee and many have failed to mention that it was western influence that caused them to become isolationist. No we've been blamed for forcing ourselves upon them and for causing all of the conflict that they have been involved in since isolation ended, yet the entire reason for their isolation was because of us... or more accurately because they feared we were planning to take over their country, and so they isolated themselves.

[Biggles]

That was the war I spoke of.

As far as I am aware that was the limit of Japanese external aggression prior to the late 19th century. They were attacked a couple of times by the Mongols but saw off the invasions. Other than that very little. Compared to the expansionism of the European countries and later the US, the Japanese do not figure on the international scene at all.

In 1692 they might have spoke of conquering Korea, China and India but the fact is they lost in Korea in 1698 and returned home for 250 years. As expansionist countries go they were not big players.
They had expansionist ambitions before their self-imposed isolation. That war was actually three wars with Korea and one with China, all committed to make themselves top of the tree in Asiatic thinking... basically to become the Asian empire leaders. Their expansionist ambitions existed before the isolation and they probably hated being thought of as the Junior nation for the entire time of their isolation, which is the reasonable explanation for their wars with China and the Russians immediately their self-imposed isolation ended. They picked up where they left off.

What's very interesting about this whole discussion is that Snee and many have failed to mention that it was western influence that caused them to become isolationist. No we've been blamed for forcing ourselves upon them and for causing all of the conflict that they have been involved in since isolation ended, yet the entire reason for their isolation was because of us... or more accurately because they feared we were planning to take over their country, and so they isolated themselves.

There is a fair degree of supposition there. Yes they had ambitions in 1692 but there is little in the 1000 years before then that would suggest they were an Empire in waiting and post 1698 they went into 200+ years of seclusion. Britain, France Spain, Holland etc were constantly at war with somebody or other and looking to take control of somebody else's bit of turf. Yes they were nervous about our intentions but then surely that was with good reason? European nations were quite big on Empire and had a fair track record of taking countries over. If Japan had looked an easy proposition one or other of the European powers probably would have annexed it.

[manicgeek]

There is a fair degree of supposition there. Yes they had ambitions in 1692 but there is little in the 1000 years before then that would suggest they were an Empire in waiting and post 1698 they went into 200+ years of seclusion. Britain, France Spain, Holland etc were constantly at war with somebody or other and looking to take control of somebody else's bit of turf. Yes they were nervous about our intentions but then surely that was with good reason? European nations were quite big on Empire and had a fair track record of taking countries over. If Japan had looked an easy proposition one or other of the European powers probably would have annexed it.

Really where ?

You're comparing chalk and cheese with your comparison of Japan with European nations. Their mindset is totally different to any European nations peoples. Your idea of Empire is based upon the European model of conquering a nation and ruling over it, that's not how Asian Empires worked, the Chinese didn't rule over Korea, yet Korea was part of the Empire of Heaven. The facts are that in the Asian mindset of that era China was the Big Brother, Korea was the Middle Brother and Japan was the Little Brother, and the Japanese didn't like that, they wanted to supplant China and become the Big Brother, they wanted to be the head of the Empire. That's what the wars were about. So where's the supposition ?

[Biggles]

Their expansionist ambitions existed before the isolation and they probably hated being thought of as the Junior nation for the entire time of their isolation

I took that to be supposition unless you are aware of texts and writings to the contrary.

Regardless of difference in concepts of Empire that does not alter the fact that the Japanese were wary of European intentions with good reason. Most of the Far East ended up under one European Empire or another and generally the local population was not happy about it.

[Squeamous]

I don't believe Snee's position is that they were backward or ill informed either but that their reaction to US intervention was one of a people who had become accustomed to an insular view of foreign intervention. They subsequently embraced an aspect of politics that was popular at the time - Empire.

One might view the US role as liberating or one might consider it an ongoing process of securing influence in the region (or indeed a bit of both).

It's quite sweet that you want to defend him, but that's a fucked up perception! His position was that the Japanese have been badgered throughout the last few hundred years by foreign intervention against their wishes to the point where they felt they had no choice but to attack Pearl Harbour :dry:.

[Squeamous]

:unsure: There was a donkey too OMG!

Those sick bastards! :fist:

[SpatulaGeekGirl]

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/8/81/300px-Dream_of_the_fishermans_wife_hokusai.jpg

Here's some tentacle rape.

Traditional style, so you can feel classy while fapping.

[Something Else]

txhx..dam i can typ wel wih my left hand.

[Squeamous]

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/8/81/300px-Dream_of_the_fishermans_wife_hokusai.jpg

Here's some tentacle rape.

Traditional style, so you can feel classy while fapping.

Is that it's copulatory arm in her gob? Surely for an authentic Japanese feel you need several octopi unfurling their adapted sexual tentacles and rolling packets of sperm onto her forehead?

[Squeamous]

Oh, and you gotta watch out for it's beak...they can crush shellfish with them mandibles :pinch:.

[Biggles]

I don't believe Snee's position is that they were backward or ill informed either but that their reaction to US intervention was one of a people who had become accustomed to an insular view of foreign intervention. They subsequently embraced an aspect of politics that was popular at the time - Empire.

One might view the US role as liberating or one might consider it an ongoing process of securing influence in the region (or indeed a bit of both).

It's quite sweet that you want to defend him, but that's a fucked up perception! His position was that the Japanese have been badgered throughout the last few hundred years by foreign intervention against their wishes to the point where they felt they had no choice but to attack Pearl Harbour :dry:.

I think that might slightly overstate Snny's position but if doesn't he is on his own with that one. It is undeniable that Japan viewed US influence in the region somewhat unfavourably and the blockade by the US navy did cause the Edo regime to fall and a more anti-foreign (although not anti-science or technology) Government to form. This did in turn lead to conflicts with China, Russia and Korea and an increasingly powerful and successful Japanese military.

One might argue that this would have occurred anyway but contra-factual history is always shakey. If there had been no blockade in 1854 might Pearl Harbour not have happened? If Pearl Harbour had not happened would the US have sat out on WW2 and D Day not occurred? The Russians might have prevailed and the most of continental Europe would have come under Soviet direction. Stuff of science fiction "don't touch anything if you travel back in time" sort of thing.

[Biggles]

Oh, and you gotta watch out for it's beak...they can crush shellfish with them mandibles :pinch:.

The sweet mandibles of love :huh:

[Squeamous]

I think that might slightly overstate Snny's position but if doesn't he is on his own with that one. It is undeniable that Japan viewed US influence in the region somewhat unfavourably and the blockade by the US navy did cause the Edo regime to fall and a more anti-foreign (although not anti-science or technology) Government to form. This did in turn lead to conflicts with China, Russia and Korea and an increasingly powerful and successful Japanese military.

One might argue that this would have occurred anyway but contra-factual history is always shakey. If there had been no blockade in 1854 might Pearl Harbour not have happened? If Pearl Harbour had not happened would the US have sat out on WW2 and D Day not occurred? The Russians might have prevailed and the most of continental Europe would have come under Soviet direction. Stuff of science fiction "don't touch anything if you travel back in time" sort of thing.

Phloppy's book over on t'other side is about this sort of thing. It's quite interesting.

To be honest as far as Japan is concerned, you pays your money you take your chances. You start a war with another country, no matter how much you think they deserve it, you have to stand by the consequences. I have no sympathy for them really.

[Biggles]

I think that might slightly overstate Snny's position but if doesn't he is on his own with that one. It is undeniable that Japan viewed US influence in the region somewhat unfavourably and the blockade by the US navy did cause the Edo regime to fall and a more anti-foreign (although not anti-science or technology) Government to form. This did in turn lead to conflicts with China, Russia and Korea and an increasingly powerful and successful Japanese military.

One might argue that this would have occurred anyway but contra-factual history is always shakey. If there had been no blockade in 1854 might Pearl Harbour not have happened? If Pearl Harbour had not happened would the US have sat out on WW2 and D Day not occurred? The Russians might have prevailed and the most of continental Europe would have come under Soviet direction. Stuff of science fiction "don't touch anything if you travel back in time" sort of thing.

Phloppy's book over on t'other side is about this sort of thing. It's quite interesting.

To be honest as far as Japan is concerned, you pays your money you take your chances. You start a war with another country, no matter how much you think they deserve it, you have to stand by the consequences. I have no sympathy for them really.

Absolutely! Pearl Harbour was a daft idea just as making PS3s and blue ray HDs is a brilliant idea.

However, as my darling offspring has demonstrated - they did give us the mandibles of love.

I have no idea what the original point of this argument was though as Submission originally went off on one about modern Japan and we ended up talking about the fall of the Edo regime :blink:

[Squeamous]

It was an interesting thread though. I learnt stuff.....stuff I begrudge learning natch, because those bastards irritate me so :fist:.

I trace it back to the time I watched some stupid fucking Japanese cartoon in an independent cinema and had to walk out after 2 hours because there was just no plot and no end in sight. And my friend is coming back to the UK next month and bringing his Japanese girlfriend with him. They'll probably stay at mine and she doesn't speak a word of English. So I'm a little pissed off at the Japanese right now.

[Something Else]

Can I photieshop you on to an octupus please Squeamous. :unsure:

[Biggles]

It was an interesting thread though. I learnt stuff.....stuff I begrudge learning natch, because those bastards irritate me so :fist:.

I trace it back to the time I watched some stupid fucking Japanese cartoon in an independent cinema and had to walk out after 2 hours because there was just no plot and no end in sight. And my friend is coming back to the UK next month and bringing his Japanese girlfriend with him. They'll probably stay at mine and she doesn't speak a word of English. So I'm a little pissed off at the Japanese right now.


The food is nice though - I really like those Wagamama noodle restaurants.

The cartoons are an acquired taste imho although Holywood nick their horror movie ideas left, right and centre.

[Squeamous]

Yeah, it's not so bad. And I do actually have some T-shirts with Japanese on them. And I quite like a lot of their culture. OMG, I'm a self loathing Nipon-lover.

[Something Else]

Is that a Yes. :unsure:

[Snee]

FFS, this muppetry is still going :blink:

This is a whole lot like the arguing with billy back in the old days. Even with the ":lol:"s.




First of all, a feudal society implies a certain structure, not a level of knowledge "poor ill educated and informed" has exactly fuckall to do with societal structure, literacy and so forth.

Second of all, knowledge in medicine, architecture indoor-plumbing, basic science, microscopes and so forth does not equal bluprints for instruments of war. It can be argued that rangaku helped build a foundation for the rampant modernization after 1854 (1853 really, bakamatsu as that article calls it started then, after Perry's first visit), this is true, but the first actual steamship Japan had, for instance, was given to them in 1855 by the dutch, other ships were built for them by the british, and at the same time they'd started sending people off to check out the rest of the world.

Try as you might, there's no disputing that they did turn from insular to expansionist after 1854, having had a fleet of modern warships paraded in front of them, and that that's when they started building a modern army.

No you portrayed them as having been backwards and ill informed, unable to cope with the technology and the knowledge, and that was wrong because they weren't. Their expansionist dreams and acts where theirs and theirs alone.

Not really. I said it's fucking stupid to arm up a feudal society (you know, one of them societies with one bloke in charge, a bloke with not much accountability, if any) with modern weaponry. This particular society had even chosen to walk away from arming themselves up with such weaponry, large-scale.

Backwards and ill-informed was all in your head, tbh :dabs:

Whether they did have any expansionist dreams or not, and whether they eventually would have gone expansionist is sort of pointless with regards to what actually happened (not to mention that they'd stayed stable, on pretty much the same track for two centuries at that point, it's not really a stretch to assume that they'd gone on the same way, possibly with another family in charge, even if the shogunate as it was collapsed), much like them trading with the chinese, or what they taught in their schools.

Seeing as they didn't have the technology before 1854, despite them having some of the best metal smiths in the world, and having had gunpowder for centuries, and even the theoretical knowledge to build larger ships for decades, if not more, it's not really a stretch to assume that the reason they did chose to arm up when they did, with what they did, was because they'd just had the same stuff paraded in front of them.

I do like your alternative take on time, though. If I read you right, you started off on a hostile note because of something I said in a post later on.


I think what Snee was saying was that the Japanese have every right to have a complex against the West since the West apparently dragged them kicking and screaming into the 20th century and bombed the fuck out of them in WW2.

Not really though, but why break the trend of putting words in my mouth and that.

What I was on about was that Japan's actual change came from external pressure, and that the lesson history seemed to have taught them was that they had to stay aggressive, lest they be taken off guard by the west. I should note that, just as I started off saying, there were probably a whole lot of people in japan at the time who felt they had had quite enough of western influences as well, and the right to push back, which has nothing to do with whether they actually did have the right.



I think that's probably just as you say, the result of having a Western guilt complex. As I've said a few pages back, the Japanese are doing exceptionally well out of being a world power and I've never got the impression there's any bitterness towards the West in that regard. They will keep bleating on about the atom bombs but if they weren't such a proud people only one of those bombs need have gone off, and it was their choice to enter WW2 anyway.
Seeing as how my nation never had anything to do with Japan, stayed neutral in both world wars and generally didn't give much of a fuck about trading with Japan during their isolation I'm not really feeling the weight of your western guilt.



Throughout history nations and empires have been exposed to external influence. It's how the world moves on. To suggest that anyone has a right to be upset about that is a nonsense
I'm sure the south american indians wiped out by the spanish/portugese/whatever, the african nations that changed for the worse thanks to colonialism, and every other people or nation that got fucked over thanks to colonialism/imperialism, western or otherwise would be well happy to agree with you on that one.

That's probably my western guilt talking though. I suppose one mustn't sympathize with anyone who gets a raw deal, that's just silly.

=-=-

At this point, I'm having a hard time figuring out whose predjudices and assumptions are sillier in this thread, though.

Manicgeek is the thicker one, I reckon, but you (Squeamous) going off about western guilt without even knowing where I'm from (I'm assuming)is a humdinger. I dunno who of you read the most weirdness into what I've been saying, though.


EDit: Oh, and I would maintain that seen from that perspective (Perry's involvement and so forth), their expansionism, and eventually their involvement in world war II wasn't entirely of Japan's own doing.

EDit: And thus, as I started off saying, they could, from a historical perspective, point to that and say that that's what changed them and in extension eventually got them nuked. Causality being what it is, and all of that.

EDit yet again: :sigh: It should also be noted that what I outlined was one possible way to look at it, "It could be argued", "after a fashion" and all of that. I don't really feel that strongly about it one way or another, the only reason I responded to manicgeek at all was 'cos he/she/it would have it that what I was saying was impossible. So do feel free to stuff your western guilt somewhere where the sun doesn't shine, kthnx.

I wasn't gonna say that last, but then I realised that being diplomatic is sort of pointless when I don't really respect you :mellow:

[Snee]

PS wasn't aware the Swedes had that much to be guilty about in respect of Empire.
Apart from some light, brief slave trading, which wasn't really a matter of state, and steamrolling the indigenous population in the north (neither is remarkable or comes close to atrocities commited elsewhere), it was pretty righteous, and Sweden had bits of both Norway, Denmark, baltic states and all of Finland, too.

And they pwned the Russians at war :01:

As an empire, it was pretty fucking win to the orsum max :01:

I sort of wish we'd kept Norway, the oil had come in handy :dabs:
We should have traded it for the south, like, 'cept where BOT lives.

[Squeamous]

FFS, this muppetry is still going :blink:


Yes it is, and it'll probably keep on going whether you contribute to it or not.

Can't be arsed to read the rest of your diatribe. Bored now.

[Snee]

Yeah, it's not as if you really bothered reading any of the rest, so why break the pattern :mellow:

Just keep guessing what I'm really saying, it seems to be your thing anyways.

[Something Else]

blahblahblah

Please answer my question, I have asked nicely.
May I or may I not photoshop your head on to an octopus. :01:

[chalice]

FFS, this muppetry is still going :blink:


Yes it is, and it'll probably keep on going whether you contribute to it or not.

Can't be arsed to read the rest of your diatribe. Bored now.

Wow, there was me thinking you were a decent spud.

It now transpires that you are a cunt.

Ho hum.

[Squeamous]

Sorry I missed the request. Yes, of course feel free. Make sure it's a girl octopus though or I'll hunt you down like a dog.

(to Benchez, not cuntybollocks above)

[Something Else]

You hunt dogs. :O

[Squeamous]

Yeah, I dress up as a fox just to confuse them :unsure:

[Mr JP Fugley]

Yeah, it's not as if you really bothered reading any of the rest, so why break the pattern :mellow:

Just keep guessing what I'm really saying, it seems to be your thing anyways.

Stop it, you're just doing what he wants.

[Mr JP Fugley]

Yes it is, and it'll probably keep on going whether you contribute to it or not.

Can't be arsed to read the rest of your diatribe. Bored now.

Wow, there was me thinking you were a decent spud.

It now transpires that you are a cunt.

Ho hum.

Someone should have told you.

[chalice]

Yeah, why didn't you warn we, JP, you cunt.

I blame you for all this.

[Snee]

Yeah, it's not as if you really bothered reading any of the rest, so why break the pattern :mellow:

Just keep guessing what I'm really saying, it seems to be your thing anyways.

Stop it, you're just doing what he wants.

I reckon she was mostly standing up for her mate or something, though, I never had a prob with her before. (I'm assuming she's a she, general consensus seems to indicate that.)

Just flung off a couple of insults to see what'd happen, if anything, there, as per the usual interwebs etiquette. Well, that and I was a bit annoyed with the whole business of being told what I was saying, when I wasn't.

[Squeamous]

Fuck me, are you bunch of old women on your periods tonight or something?

[Snee]

It's the internets, perhaps you've heard of it :smilie4:

[Snee]

Fuck, that reminded me of:

"The internets, where the men are men, the women are men, and the little girls are FBI-agents"

Fucking eve-people tells me that about twice a day :dabs:

[chalice]

A woman goes to the Antiques Roadshow.

She throws down a bloody tampon on the desk of the expert.

'Can you tell me which period that came from?'

[Squeamous]

I've heard of the internet you illiterate sheep.

[Squeamous]

A woman goes to the Antiques Roadshow.

She throws down a bloody tampon on the desk of the expert.

'Can you tell me which period that came from?'

Oh, that's bad! You just broke my funny bone.

[Snee]

Internets, the singular internet is passé :snooty:

It's like the best thing an american has come up with, ever, the plural interwebs.

[manicgeek]

I do like your alternative take on time, though. If I read you right, you started off on a hostile note because of something I said in a post later on.

What ? Are you on something ?

I started of by giving my opinion of your opinion, that was where I said Bollocks... If you consider someone saying your opinion is bollocks to be hostile then you must lead a very scary life filled with hostile people.


You then come back and act in a hostile way towards me, and expect me to lay down and STFU... yeah right... :lol:

[Snee]

:lol: :lol: :lol: And etc.

hats off for delicious ironing, though.

[Squeamous]

Internets, the singular internet is passé :snooty:

It's like the best thing an american has come up with, ever, the plural interwebs.

I've gotta go to bed now. If I hang around here I'll catch your nerd.

Don't worry, I'll finish whupping your arse tomorrow.

[Snee]

Internets, the singular internet is passé :snooty:

It's like the best thing an american has come up with, ever, the plural interwebs.

I've gotta go to bed now. If I hang around here I'll catch your nerd.
I'm pretty sure you don't need mine. It would get so crowded, like.

Sleep tite, though.

[manicgeek]

Manicgeek is the thicker one, I reckon, but you (Squeamous) going off about western guilt without even knowing where I'm from (I'm assuming)is a humdinger. I dunno who of you read the most weirdness into what I've been saying, though.

Really! This from a man who cannot follow a fucking thread... for the record it was me who introduced idiotic western guilt onto this thread, and who suggested it was what you were suffering from, now apparently it turns out from your own confession that you're a bleeding heart... someone stupid enough to believe that people hundreds of years ago should live by the standards that you approve of today... how fucking dumb is that ?

You really do need to try to keep up and follow who says what... or you'll continue to make stupid posts like this and people will see you for the stupid cunt that you've made yourself look like with this load of bollocks.... oh look it's turning into a theme of your posts...

[manicgeek]

Stop it, you're just doing what he wants.

I am shocked JP... to discover that the big man hasn't got the balls to answer the question... how is that... or are you the troll ? You know... going around calling people trolls to see if you can make them bite ?

[Snee]

Did I say she came up with it? I don't think I did, but :blink:

I dunno what the fuck you are on about wrt the rest, but I'm well impressed.

[Biggles]

This is a remarkable thread. Submission posts a minimal amount of semi-literate gibberish worthy only of a modicum of bitch slapping and half of FST are each other's throat :blink: WTF!

Perhaps it is time to return to the original theme, is Japan as a modern nation a safer or more dangerous country for women than any other modern industrialised country? Submission's contention seems to be that it is more dangerous but has failed to support this with any evidence other than links to a couple of nasty crimes. However, arguing the general from the exception is cloth eared idiocy - any number of ghastly crimes can be dragged up from any country. Charlie Manson was not very Japanese (although I think he claimed to be a scientologist).

[Squeamous]

It all depends on what you call a crime doesn't it Biggles? If no-one reports being sexually assaulted in public by strangers then it won't show up in crime figures, if it's even illegal to do that - I don't know. I certainly think women in both China and Japan are getting wise to being treated like shit, which can be quite annoying even if you're not the victim of a crime.

[Biggles]

It all depends on what you call a crime doesn't it Biggles? If no-one reports being sexually assaulted in public by strangers then it won't show up in crime figures, if it's even illegal to do that - I don't know. I certainly think women in both China and Japan are getting wise to being treated like shit, which can be quite annoying even if you're not the victim of a crime.

That is true - isn't it the case that the number of assaults reported in the UK is tiny in comparison to the suspected total number? I would imagine that is the same in many countries. Not sure about China but certainly in Japan "sisters are doing it for themselves" (or with an octopus) and traditional views on home and work are breaking down.

[Squeamous]

That is true - isn't it the case that the number of assaults reported in the UK is tiny in comparison to the suspected total number? I would imagine that is the same in many countries. Not sure about China but certainly in Japan "sisters are doing it for themselves" (or with an octopus) and traditional views on home and work are breaking down.

If that's the case in Britain, imagine how high the figures must be in a country where it's culturally acceptable to grope women on trains.

[Agrajag]

No idea why you want to keep doing this Les and Snee but as I said before it's very much a matter for you chaps.

However at least do me the kindness of acknowledging that you know you are being goaded and are deliberately replying to it, for your own personal amusement.

[manicgeek]

Don't tell him anything Les :lol:

[Biggles]

No idea why you want to keep doing this Les and Snee but as I said before it's very much a matter for you chaps.

However at least do me the kindness of acknowledging that you know you are being goaded and are deliberately replying to it, for your own personal amusement.

I would say that I am not overly wound up over this :shifty:

[Squeamous]

Neither am I.......I'm quite enjoying it in fact. Or was until some fuckwit interrupted the flow.

[Snee]

No idea why you want to keep doing this Les and Snee but as I said before it's very much a matter for you chaps.

However at least do me the kindness of acknowledging that you know you are being goaded and are deliberately replying to it, for your own personal amusement.

+1. 'sup.

What can I say. billy's sputtering made me lol.

[manicgeek]

+1. 'sup.

What can I say. billy's sputtering made me lol.

Who's billy ?

[Mr JP Fugley]

No idea why you want to keep doing this Les and Snee but as I said before it's very much a matter for you chaps.

However at least do me the kindness of acknowledging that you know you are being goaded and are deliberately replying to it, for your own personal amusement.

+1. 'sup.

What can I say. billy's sputtering made me lol.

Fair do's then so long as you're doing it to have a larf.

I stopped doing it when I learned that he wasn't being ironic and actually does need help. It's like laughing at David Icke until you realise that he may actually be serious, then you start to feel a bit guilty.

Careful what you say tho' he does have contacts and could deploy them at any time. You won't be laughing if Tom Leo turns up at your door and deploys the cunt punch.

[manicgeek]

Les will you please tell me who billy is ?

I'm afraid I've become quite lost here, and now Mr Fugley is suggesting that someone here could actually have people commit violence ?

[Biggles]

Ah sweet sweet Billy Dean ....

....crotchety old anti-semite who left London town for Oz. He used to come here often and have a rant or two. Semi-troll, semi-serious and completely unable to stop once off on one, I can't remember if he left or simply got banzorised. He appeared in a couple of different guises but the views and antipodean time line were always a give away. Anyone who expresses blunt views from the outset especially towards people Billy had a run in with tend to get called Billy for a while...it is a sort of tradition really. :shifty:

[Mr JP Fugley]

Ah sweet sweet Billy Dean ....

....crotchety old anti-semite who left London town for Oz. He used to come here often and have a rant or two. Semi-troll, semi-serious and completely unable to stop once off on one, I can't remember if he left or simply got banzorised. He appeared in a couple of different guises but the views and antipodean time line were always a give away. Anyone who expresses blunt views from the outset especially towards people Billy had a run in with tend to get called Billy for a while...it is a sort of tradition really. :shifty:

He got banned, mate. Keeps coming back though.

[Biggles]

Ah sweet sweet Billy Dean ....

....crotchety old anti-semite who left London town for Oz. He used to come here often and have a rant or two. Semi-troll, semi-serious and completely unable to stop once off on one, I can't remember if he left or simply got banzorised. He appeared in a couple of different guises but the views and antipodean time line were always a give away. Anyone who expresses blunt views from the outset especially towards people Billy had a run in with tend to get called Billy for a while...it is a sort of tradition really. :shifty:

He got banned, mate. Keeps coming back though.

I thought he had - can't remember which intemperate outburst achieved that honour though. It isn't that easy to get banned from here either - Lord knows, Seedler has tried hard enough :shifty:

[manicgeek]

Ah sweet sweet Billy Dean ....

....crotchety old anti-semite who left London town for Oz. He used to come here often and have a rant or two. Semi-troll, semi-serious and completely unable to stop once off on one, I can't remember if he left or simply got banzorised. He appeared in a couple of different guises but the views and antipodean time line were always a give away. Anyone who expresses blunt views from the outset especially towards people Billy had a run in with tend to get called Billy for a while...it is a sort of tradition really. :shifty:

Cheers Les :)

[Mr JP Fugley]

He got banned, mate. Keeps coming back though.

I thought he had - can't remember which intemperate outburst achieved that honour though.

I think it was a cumulative thing.

As you said the anti-semitism (to the point of being really offensive), being totally unable to accept other people had a right to a point of view. The constant trolling and abusing other members.

It wasn't just one incident as I understand it.

[manicgeek]

I think it was a cumulative thing.

As you said the anti-semitism (to the point of being really offensive), being totally unable to accept other people had a right to a point of view. The constant trolling and abusing other members.

It wasn't just one incident as I understand it.

Can I recommend a board for whoever banned him, it's bloody full of anti-semites... a few bannings would do it the world of good.

Sorry to disappoint but I'm not him, although I have been called a "Nazi racist scumbag", but I don't think that counts as it came from an anti-semite. :lol: