Filesharing is NOT Stealing

[themixedmedias]

Hello peeps. I made a Public Service Announcement regarding Filesharing and the attempt by the RIAA to assosciate filesharing AS stealing.

Anyway, it's gone pretty viral on youtube and wired.blog has covered it as well. I just found this forum and I thought it would be a nice way to say hello so please don't take this as spam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPfSOvhscjY&feature=user

[Skiz]

You can post all the cute videos you want, but downloading copyrighted music is stealing.

Fact.

Welcome to FST. :ermm:

[Sonnentier]

downloading copyrighted music is stealing
Nah, thats their propaganda saying ;P

You don't take an item away, you also don't take money away.
Refusing to pay is not the same as stealing.

Correctly it should be called differently although financially it could be similar effect..

[Skiz]

downloading copyrighted music is stealing
Nah, thats their propaganda saying ;P

You don't take an item away, you also don't take money away.
Refusing to pay is not the same as stealing.

Correctly it should be called differently although financially it could be similar effect..

You may want to research some very basic copyright laws.

Although what the thread title states can be true, most times it is not. There are plenty of applications and programs which are allowed to be freely distributed around the web, but copyrighted music, apps, movies, etc. which are uploaded and downloaded without the permission of their respective owners is copyright infringement and thus illegal. Period.

You can dispute it or call it propaganda all you want, but you'll be fighting a losing battle. If you truely believe what you're saying, I highly suggest you educate yourself on what the law states is allowed.

[Sonnentier]

but copyrighted music, apps, movies, etc. which are uploaded and downloaded without the permission of their respective owners is copyright infringement and thus illegal

No doubt, it's copyright infringement and this is not allowed by the law.

But what I meant was more the term itself, 'stealing'.

You may be right because there is actually this 'no electronic theft act', and theft equals stealing.
Anyway, every time I hear about 'stealing' it's a statement from right holders angry about unauthorized distribution.

When we talk about filesharing I don't like to call it 'stealing' because the media was produced to be copied for the consumers - so we don't rip information that wasn't intended for us, also we don't take products away from other people. The only problem is the financial situation, thus I would prefer to call it differently - damaging the producer's economics or something, but not 'stealing'..

I always have the impression with 'stealing' they want to affect our moral concepts. We would then consider downloading to be the same as stealing from the store in the neighborhood - where most people would agree it's unfair for the owner.

But in my opinion this is an ideologically driven view with the aim to gather better economic situation..

[Disme]

Filesharing is stealing ... you are taking away $$$ from people. no matter how you look at that, or what your motives are ... it's still stealing. From a ethical, moral or judicial point of view.

It's like when you write a book yourself. You dedicte a lot of time to do so ... invest in a publisher, get the book printed and than you see that your book isn't being sold because it is all over the internet in electronic form.
I bet when that would happen to you you would also call this stealing.

Filesharing is one thing ... I do it myself but I think we should always be aware it isn't really ethical.

The illegal character isn't always there because that varies from country to country. In some countries downloading isn't illegal but uploading is.

[Barbarossa]

Filesharing is not stealing.

It's more like finding.

It's like, you're on the web, and ooh look, you've found a song!

Finders keepers! :snooty:

The record companies are not losing money from me, because if I hadn't found all these songs, I wouldn't have bought them, I'd have just gone without :happy:

[dlxldxld]

i dont know what they wanted to say in this video..
bus filesharing is stealing!! why do you think that if you take and download
from the internet this is not stealing?!
you "take" this things on free insead pay for it!..
so.. sorry to tell you man.. this video is bullshit! :D:happy:

[Barbarossa]

Open your mind :whistling

[Sonnentier]

you are taking away $$$ from people
No, you don't - you refuse to pay, but take away nothing.

[edgarb]

Filesharing is not stealing.
The record companies are not losing money from me, because if I hadn't found all these songs, I wouldn't have bought them, I'd have just gone without :happy:

x2 if i had to pay for a cd i wouldn't have very many than

[rogerse]

filesharing not stealing:blink:.

Copyright infringement is illegal, thus stealing as far as law is concerned.

Oh, and they're are plenty of legitimate ppl out they're who may actually have afforded what they Dled, but chose to get it for free.

And can yuo really say you wouldn't have paid for anything that you DLed if it wasn't free.

Don't deny it, your a thief;).

[Sonnentier]

We are no thieves. Lowering their income is not the same as stealing.

[emperorIX]

I'm not entirely sure how it works in most countries, but in North America copyright infringement (ie filesharing) and stealing, under the law, are two entirely different concepts. Theft is a criminal offense; whereas, copyright infringement is merely a civil offense. I don't think I've ever heard of someone serving prison time for sharing a couple of songs over Kazaa or whatever filesharing application they may use. But, I may be wrong on this, so please correct me if I am.

[PACE]

It may not be stealing, but it's still wrong and Illegal.

[dunkItOut]

It may not be stealing, but it's still wrong and Illegal.

so many people do it though.

[Jdsnut]

Theres a mix filesharing is weird in a way you know it is illegal.
But there also the fact that do you want to pay 20 bucks on a movie that might really bad, cause if its open you cant take it back so now youve got a crappy movie and down 20 bucks.
But until this is changed i think people will still continue to File share.

[Sonnentier]

It may not be stealing, but it's still wrong and Illegal.

Yes. Anyway, if you do it responsible and upright it's not that bad either.

[JGB]

It may not be stealing, but it's still wrong and Illegal.

Wrong and Illegal are not always the same.
I don't believe it is wrong, but it is illegal.

If I download something I find actually useful I'll pay for it, so no I don't see it as wrong. If they weren't free would I pay for them? No. Furthermore I wouldn't have tried a lot of stuff I have paid for if it wasn't shared first.
Example: I now use J river media center instead of itunes, before trying it I never would have bought it since Itunes was free and I didn't know how much better it was.
they get money they would have never got from me.

I especially feel this way about movies, yes I downloaded them but if I didn't download them would I pay the 20$ and the 2.50$/half-hour parking or 5$ each way on the bus for my girlfriend and I to watch them in theaters? No, because most of them suck. Before I started dowloading them I hadn't been to see a movie in over a year because whenever I went I felt robbed.
I downloaded a series of audiobooks for the dune series, they were awesome and I bought the series in book form, never would have given them a chance otherwise.


Since I started downloading them I've seen 2 movies this year, thats 40$ more then they'd have got out of me otherwise.

so I think its right, and in the end it benefits people who otherwise would have got 0$ from me.

[Disme]

I'm surprised how many people justify their behaviour with all kinds off excuses for what they are doing. It's to expensive, it's a shame to pay for a bad movie, piece of music, i ouldn't have bought it anyway, etc...

I just wonder what all these people would say or think if it happened to them. I guess they would be the first ones crying out loud that someone was stealing from them.

What do you think when your employer lowers your income ... do you think that would be fair ... I wouldn't.

Anyway ... this is an endless discussion and off course everybody's entitled to their own opinion so I guess we agree to disagree.

Cya.

[Actatoi]

I'm surprised how many people justify their behaviour with all kinds off excuses for what they are doing. It's to expensive, it's a shame to pay for a bad movie, piece of music, i ouldn't have bought it anyway, etc...

I just wonder what all these people would say or think if it happened to them. I guess they would be the first ones crying out loud that someone was stealing from them.

What do you think when your employer lowers your income ... do you think that would be fair ... I wouldn't.

Anyway ... this is an endless discussion and off course everybody's entitled to their own opinion so I guess we agree to disagree.

Cya.

You really are suprised? :blink:

[Disme]

I'm surprised how many people justify their behaviour with all kinds off excuses for what they are doing. It's to expensive, it's a shame to pay for a bad movie, piece of music, i ouldn't have bought it anyway, etc...

I just wonder what all these people would say or think if it happened to them. I guess they would be the first ones crying out loud that someone was stealing from them.

What do you think when your employer lowers your income ... do you think that would be fair ... I wouldn't.

Anyway ... this is an endless discussion and off course everybody's entitled to their own opinion so I guess we agree to disagree.

Cya.

You really are suprised? :blink:

Not really ... it's just human nature I guess. I see it all the time that people are just willing to believe what they want to believe.

I do filesharing myself but I am well aware of the nature of the 'game'. :naughty:

[PACE]

The real reason people share files:
Because they can!
No, it's not true that file sharers are poor. If they can afford their own pc,hdtv, ps3/xbox360/wii, high speed connection, uber1337 speaker setup, 500 core proccesors etc., why can't they afford a movie? and anyone who downloads Call of Duty 4 must be really rich since you need a really good pc for that.

[emperorIX]

I see that there are numerous people who still believe that filesharing is theft or is depriving the artists of any significant amount of income. I would just like to point out that the artist's share of music sales is quite low, with the average musician seeing less than a dollar per sale. Much of the artist's income is derived from touring and other merchandise sales. It is only the distributor or production company that takes the hit where album sales are concerned, not the actual artists. In the age of the Internet that we live in, why should we the consumer be forced to pay these exorbitant costs based on an outmoded business model? The record labels are desperately grasping onto a dying business model that ensures they profit at the expense of the artist. Numerous artists have already realized this and have bypassed the labels in releasing their material (see NiN and Radiohead) with much success. Also, filesharing gives the artist a means in which their music reaches the masses at no cost...think of it as the radio of the Internet age. By all intents and purposes this is true, both mediums are presented in an inferior lossy format. An mp3 is far from a substitute for the CD.

As for movies, how can filesharing be said to be impacting hollywood when each year means another sales record broken? Filesharing has proven to be an extremely effective marketing tool for Hollywood.

I think I should also mention the filesharing of software as well, as there will likely be those who will say that software developers lose out. All I can really say is were you really going to pay $1700 for Adobe CS3 Production Premium? Highly unlikely, unless you were going to use it for commerical purposes, in which case you would likely purchase or put your business at risk. And, most games are now played for their online component, which requires the purchase of the product. Game sales are also helped tremendously by demoing the game (ie playing a cracked full version). I would imagine though that those games that don't provide a heavy online component would be hurt by filesharing.

In conclusion, there is no way that filesharing is hurting the content creators. In contrast, filesharing can only help artists, be they musician, producer, or software developers, providing them with a free form of extremely effective advertising. Filesharing may be illegal, but it is not theft and it is certainly not doing any harm to the artist. Sorry for the long post, but I do not understand how many people can delude themselves and buy into the propaganda spread by the groups that only profit at the expense of the artist.

[Disme]

In conclusion, there is no way that filesharing is hurting the content creators. In contrast, filesharing can only help artists, be they musician, producer, or software developers, providing them with a free form of extremely effective advertising. Filesharing may be illegal, but it is not theft and it is certainly not doing any harm to the artist. Sorry for the long post, but I do not understand how many people can delude themselves and buy into the propaganda spread by the groups that only profit at the expense of the artist.

The only ones deluding theirselves is the group of people that reasons like you.
Since I started filesharing I never ever by anything. I used to by decent amounts of DVD's and CD's. That's all over now.
It doesn't matter who the once are that lose money by filesharing. But it is a fact that they are losing money over it. That is a fact and you can't just ignore that.

[InviteMe]

Not stealing, just "sharing" :p

[emperorIX]

The only ones deluding theirselves is the group of people that reasons like you.
Since I started filesharing I never ever by anything. I used to by decent amounts of DVD's and CD's. That's all over now.
It doesn't matter who the once are that lose money by filesharing. But it is a fact that they are losing money over it. That is a fact and you can't just ignore that.

I see your point and agree. There will always be those whose spending habits are drastically changed by filesharing, but this has been partially offset through levies. In many countries, there are levies, sometimes quite high, tacked onto recordable media such as cds and dvds, and even onto mp3 players and other recording devices. Like in Belgium, your paying € 0.12/disc extra for cds and, here in Canada, we pay an extra $0.21/disc, which is meant to go to content developers. So, the companies producing the material we pirate is recouping some of their losses.

However, I don't believe that the vast majority of pirates are changing their spending habits drastically. For example, I prefer DVDs and soon Blu-Rays over a copy and have built myself up a nice little collection of about 1500 retail movies. As for music, that is an entirely different situation. The reason for the CD's demise has little to do with filesharing and everything to do with consumer preference. With the proliferation of affordable mp3 players, consumers preference has shifted to the mp3. Recording companies had failed to capitalize on this shift early enough and continued to grasp onto a failing business model, losing them millions in sales. So, I guess you can say that it isn't necessarily filesharing that is killing the CD, but the mp3 player and a general lack of variety among legally available mp3s.

But, in the end you are correct, there will always be people like yourself whose spending habits have been drastically affected by filesharing. I, myself, have a home theatre that makes viewing anything less than an upconverted DVD9 painful and if I'm going to pay $2 for a blank DVD9, why not pay $10 for the retail DVD... As for music, I rarely purchase CDs anymore, as I have moved onto vinyl, often purchased in the secondary market where neither the artist nor the recording company makes a penny off of me. But, I obviously do not purchase everything I download...I can't afford to pay over $1000 for that ultrarare Mutiilation record I want, for instance.

[td212]

yea it's stealing... but you just gotta rationalize it. i usually use that big cd price gouging class action suit from a few years back