Overseeding worst then HNR ?

[monk3y]

Lately i've noticed that overseeding is as bad if not worst then HNR,

the reason is that people with 100/100 seedboxes get the file quick and start seeding and get to a 1:10 ratio and even higher and they doesn't let the other normal - home connection users seed the file to 1:1 ( which should be all users goal, and not 1:10 ratio ).

what is your opinion ?

[NPAX1]

A lot of trackers have seeding time limits that compensate for the 1:1 ratio, i.e. seed for 78 hours at least.

"Overseeding" or how you described it, is what provides the great speeds for the "homeusers," so complaining about them is kind of double-edged. Now I understand that seedboxes can make it hard for users without them to seed, and if I understand it then tracker admins must understand as well, so of course there are other compensations such as minimum seedtimes.

[Skerven]

to compensate for that is having low ratio requirements. some sites have no ratio requirements.

no, overseeding is not worse than hit and running. in fact they are quite opposites.

[IdolEyes787]

Even in sites with no ratio requirements overseeding by some makes it much more difficult for others to progress in user class(which unfortunately is still mainly based on amount uploaded).

[1000possibleclaws]

Even in sites with no ratio requirements overseeding by some makes it much more difficult for others to progress in user class(which unfortunately is still mainly based on amount uploaded).

obviously.. people who pay for good internet connections are the ones that drive the sites (well, plus the uploaders, but they are also in this group), not the people with the basic internet packages.

[ProActive]

There is no such thing as overseeding.
Most guys with 100/100 are associated with site admin/mod etc so they are promiting the site using that box.
and those boxes give great download speed to home users.

[1000possibleclaws]

LOL pro seedboxes are not uncommon these days.. in some places where internet is very expensive it's cheaper to seedbox to get your upload

[chamaeleo]

Even in sites with no ratio requirements overseeding by some makes it much more difficult for others to progress in user class(which unfortunately is still mainly based on amount uploaded).

obviously.. people who pay for good internet connections are the ones that drive the sites (well, plus the uploaders, but they are also in this group), not the people with the basic internet packages.


plus all the ppl on non-0day sites, with your basic package, who keep em rarer torrents alive by seeding them long time;)
which is something of the past I suppose

[stoi]

Overseeding, is not as bad as hit and running.

But yes it can be a problem.

User on a home connection, seeds his ass off for days, but cant get anywhere close to PU because of 20 other members seeding 50 copies of the same torrent.

So that user than goes and buys a seedbox, to try to become a PU, but in turn, Overseeds and just adds to the problem.

I sort of agree with Idoleyes787 on this one.

Promotion based solely on Upload is not the way to do it, the problem is, its been done that way for so long now, its hard to change it to anything else.

We are looking at ways on BCG though, but there has been a million and 1 ideas about this alone lol

[1000possibleclaws]

obviously.. people who pay for good internet connections are the ones that drive the sites (well, plus the uploaders, but they are also in this group), not the people with the basic internet packages.


plus all the ppl on non-0day sites, with your basic package, who keep em rarer torrents alive by seeding them long time;)
which is something of the past I suppose

Yeah that's a good point. Overseeding IS a problem on waffles, where I've seen my invitees get burned on the 0day comics lol. same with KG where I had to seed a popular torrent 6 friggen months to hit 1:1.

It really depends on the purpose of the tracker

[Raban]

there's no such thing as overseeding ... its a term invented by people with horrible ratios who are about to get banned .. . . .. . . . ..

[slimdogp]

Good Thread :0

Overseeding is only a problem when it discourages 'home' users from snatching torrents. If these users refrain from downloading something because they are afraid they will never get back to 1:1 and it will cause their global ratio to drop to a point of warning or banning.

I kind of view torrent communities like economies. Confidence is a major factor. If all of the users feel they have enough money (buffer in this case) to download whatever they want, thats a good thing. But you don't want everyone to have 2TB buffers through irc bonus, freeleech etc either. Their is a delicate balance that occurs when all users feel confident to download whatever they want, but also feel that staying and seeding ensures their future ability to download whatever they want.

We've all seen sites that tip too far to one side or the other. Throw pay2leech in there and the equation gets infinitely more complex.

So, I would say hnr is worse than overseeding, typically. But chronic overseeding by boxes coupled with extremely strict ratio requirements can grind activity to a halt.

[chamaeleo]

there's no such thing as overseeding ... its a term invented by people with horrible ratios who are about to get banned .. . . .. . . . ..


ban is your middle name:P

[IdolEyes787]

Good Thread :0

Overseeding is only a problem when it discourages 'home' users from snatching torrents. If these users refrain from downloading something because they are afraid they will never get back to 1:1 and it will cause their global ratio to drop to a point of warning or banning.

I kind of view torrent communities like economies. Confidence is a major factor. If all of the users feel they have enough money (buffer in this case) to download whatever they want, thats a good thing. But you don't want everyone to have 2TB buffers through irc bonus, freeleech etc either. Their is a delicate balance that occurs when all users feel confident to download whatever they want, but also feel that staying and seeding ensures their future ability to download whatever they want.

We've all seen sites that tip too far to one side or the other. Throw pay2leech in there and the equation gets infinitely more complex.

So, I would say hnr is worse than overseeding, typically. But chronic overseeding by boxes coupled with extremely strict ratio requirements can grind activity to a halt.

You make some very good points slimdogp.

Unfortunately people don't grab torrents because there is no hope of ever seeding them back -which of course equates to fewer leechers which is the real problem in the first place.

[Nemrod]

You can´t compare both type of users.
Hit and runners are scumbags, selfish guys who give a shit to the spirit of this thing, they only grab and don´t like give anything.
Overseeders are the opposite, they give much more than they get.
Of course, there are collateral effects, home users with crappy connections, like me, have things very hard to keep ratio.
But one wonderful thing of this world is that trackers notice these things and are adapting themselves to the new times.
Now it´s really difficult to see a new site that uses plain ratio, and many many of the older are changing... helping users with bonuses, irc time, freeleech, points, movie of the week, of the month and of the 43 days, Gb free for those that post the biggest tits, etc. and almost every single site is looking for a way to compensate that fact (except BitMeTv).
My advice, for those that like me can´t have a better connection: buy a big big... huge HD and don´t delete anything.
Months ago if I wanted to upload I had to download a release as it was released, and then I had chances. Today I don´t even bother... I download with no hurry and wait... those with seedboxes and fat pipes don´t seed for much time, after 2 or 3 weeks is when users like me have our chance. Again, patience is the keyword.
Minutes ago I was looking my uTorrent... I am seeding the first episode of Battlestar Galactica since it was released... in the last 2 weeks I uploaded more than 1,5 Gb (more uploaded than in 2 previous months)... my ratio on that torrent is 5+:1, right now there´s some guy who is grabbing several episodes of BSG from me at almost 100% of my upload speed, he is happy for sure, and imagine how do I feel.

What I try to say is that in the long term we all have our benefits thanks to overseeders.. amazing speeds when you download, and if you do things wisely, regular users will get very good ratios.

[fatcat69]

I think it is bad to some extent.

Last night for example, I forgot to limit one of my torrents and it went to 15.0 ratio. I removed it right away, but still no need for me to let that go so high.

Usually on popular sites with lots of members I try...try to limit it to 3-5 or so. Lately actually I have been stopping at 2.0 or even 1.0

Because sometimes I like to leech as well...so I need something to compensate for when I download a 100gb torrent to my home and barely get anyone to download it off me bc it was posted 9 months ago lol

[The Wanderer]

I think overseeding it's a big problem. I have no problem with somebody who seeds a torrent to 1:10 over a period of 10 weeks, but I really don't like people selfish enough to have a 1:10 ratio over a period of 1 hour and keep seeding.

I usually stop my torrents when I reach 1:1.5 ratio and I resume seeding the next day after the interest for that torrent decreases.

[wevotedno]

there's no such thing as overseeding ... its a term invented by people with horrible ratios who are about to get banned .. . . .. . . . ..


Yeah right...

[yayyyyyy]

Lately i've noticed that overseeding is as bad if not worst then HNR,

the reason is that people with 100/100 seedboxes get the file quick and start seeding and get to a 1:10 ratio and even higher and they doesn't let the other normal - home connection users seed the file to 1:1 ( which should be all users goal, and not 1:10 ratio ).

what is your opinion ?

if there were not ppl with very fat pipes uploading you would download at the same speed as thepiratebay.

stop screaming and put all the fast ISP in your ip filter so you can be sure that you are doing something to help people with poor connections to upload... (enjoy the speed xD)

do something (ban the fast pipes from connecting to you) instead of talking blablabla... things changes doing something not with blablabla

[monk3y]

I think it is bad to some extent.

Last night for example, I forgot to limit one of my torrents and it went to 15.0 ratio. I removed it right away, but still no need for me to let that go so high.

Usually on popular sites with lots of members I try...try to limit it to 3-5 or so. Lately actually I have been stopping at 2.0 or even 1.0

Because sometimes I like to leech as well...so I need something to compensate for when I download a 100gb torrent to my home and barely get anyone to download it off me bc it was posted 9 months ago lol

you do have some big ratios on some sites from what i've seen, egoist. :whistling

j/k m8.

[IdolEyes787]

you do have some big ratios on some sites from what i've seen, egoist. :whistling

j/k m8.

Doesn't mean that he is still doing it monk3y.I think he's too busy playing soccer.:naughty:

I agree though that if you don't have a fast connection the best thing is to seed for a looong time(best thing anyway so that everyone doesn't have to jump on in the first few days)
Ever since I've gotten a seedbox I've been falling into some bad habits myself that I wouldn't do otherwise partly because of limited HD space and truthfully partly because I can afford to.

[Spillage]

if there were not ppl with very fat pipes uploading you would download at the same speed as thepiratebay.


Here's the thing i don't get, what is the point of peoples obsession with fast downloads ?
Are you forced to hold your breath for the duration of the download ?
Will your head explode if you don't get the latest episode of Lost 2 hous after it's been aired ?

People bang on about community, but with the escalation in the use of big boys pipes & seedboxes, it seems more about getting the biggest ratio buffer & feck everyone else .
Luckily, i'm happy with Piratebay speeds, i've got other things to do whilst waiting for some obscure film or show . It's not the be-all or end-all .
Still, it would be nice to know why most people have this need for speed .

[t0mmy]

cry me a river

[IdolEyes787]

What you say is mostly true Spillage:yup: but I 'm still glad that I don't have to download some of the larger stuff like games or HD at those speeds.

[Spillage]

cry me a river

Ella Fitzgerald or Justin Timberlake ?

[NPAX1]

Most people want things faster, and are always in a rush. I live in NYC, so I guess I inherited that stereotype as well..

But I agree with Spillage, I think it's more about acquiring a huge buffer/ratio, rather than getting everything faster, as I doubt most people using seedboxes actually use half the files they download.

[monk3y]

cry me a river

Ella Fitzgerald or Justin Timberlake ?


Funny McFunny

and btw i own a 100/100 seedbox :cool:

[Disme]

People bang on about community, but with the escalation in the use of big boys pipes & seedboxes, it seems more about getting the biggest ratio buffer & feck everyone else .
Still, it would be nice to know why most people have this need for speed .

Your statement is correct in regard to some trackers. I indeed experienced that on some trackers people are babbling/talking/bragging all the time about how many TB's they already uploaded. That's indeed not sharing to be helpfull for the community but just an ego-trip. But nonetheless the members of these trackers do benefit from those speeds.
If I have to download a series-pack that contains 8 seasons à 7-8 GB per season equals about 60GB and you have to download that at 5 Kb/s I'll be watching it 12 months later and that's not my intention.

But there are community-trackers where speed or uploaded amount isn't the highest goal and the sharing and friendly spirit is truly amazing.
I guess you just haven't been a member at such a tracker.

[yayyyyyy]

if there were not ppl with very fat pipes uploading you would download at the same speed as thepiratebay.


Here's the thing i don't get, what is the point of peoples obsession with fast downloads ?
Are you forced to hold your breath for the duration of the download ?
Will your head explode if you don't get the latest episode of Lost 2 hous after it's been aired ?

People bang on about community, but with the escalation in the use of big boys pipes & seedboxes, it seems more about getting the biggest ratio buffer & feck everyone else .
Luckily, i'm happy with Piratebay speeds, i've got other things to do whilst waiting for some obscure film or show . It's not the be-all or end-all .
Still, it would be nice to know why most people have this need for speed .

because trackers are there to download files... the faster they get download, the better.

If i want community I would go in facebook or myspace or any other forum (like this one) :)

and yes I find very very very amusing reading ppl bragging about "community" when talking about FSC or its or similar trackers... I suppose that when you can't have speed and content you brag about "community" :D
(but hey: why are FSC uploaders putting still a lot of efforts in getting files on the site shortly after pre??? shouldn't they upload those files the day after the pre and spam on the forums in the meanwhile?)

[bblogs]

if there were not ppl with very fat pipes uploading you would download at the same speed as thepiratebay.



That's only your viewpoint because 1337 trackers often neglect the main advantage of bittorrent: Lots of peers uploading to 1 person = big speeds.

If you need fat pipes uploading why don't you just use newsgroups??

[yayyyyyy]

because I like contributing (giving upload) and do not like to pay for warez as ppl that prefer RS or NZB might love...

[Ramus]

nah man seed till you bleed i say.

[Spillage]

But there are community-trackers where speed or uploaded amount isn't the highest goal and the sharing and friendly spirit is truly amazing.
I guess you just haven't been a member at such a tracker.

You're correct about there being community-trackers where speed or uploaded amount isn't the highest goal , but incorrect in assuming i don't belong to any . I have zero interest in 0-day mainstream gumph, so specialist trackers are where i'm at .

My question was & still is, why do people need the speed ?
It's a fashion thing, isn't it ?

[monk3y]

But there are community-trackers where speed or uploaded amount isn't the highest goal and the sharing and friendly spirit is truly amazing.
I guess you just haven't been a member at such a tracker.

You're correct about there being community-trackers where speed or uploaded amount isn't the highest goal , but incorrect in assuming i don't belong to any . I have zero interest in 0-day mainstream gumph, so specialist trackers are where i'm at .

My question was & still is, why do people need the speed ?
It's a fashion thing, isn't it ?

for me speed isn't always the issue, but in some cases i admit it is.

i won't wait for a frikkin' 700mb xvid movie for 4 days to download.

[stoi]

Well for me its not about speed for 1 thing, i can wait for 1 thing, its if i have a ton of stuff to download.

I have to admit i use NG most of the time, I hadnt downloaded a 360 game for about a month, so had a lot to catch up on.

Went onto NG, downloaded 80 gig in just over a day and i was capped for 5 hours of that.

So trackers, well from my point of view and BCG is, we are competing with the likes of NG.

If someone can go onto NG, download releases from 200 days ago, at their max speed, then i want BCG to do that as well.

On most trackers, a release thats been on the tracker, for 200 days, will probably go at a snails pace, if at all, so we are trying to change that philosophy.

But getting back to the subject at hand.

Most members of trackers overseed for promotions, but last time i checked i am sure a PU stands for Power USER not Power Uploader.

and you have to think that overseeding and hit and runs go hand in hand.

if 1 member seeds 50 * the size of the torrent, then thats 50 other users that have to hit and run (low ratio when finished and hard to seed back)

* that 1 member by 20 seedbox users and you have a problem.

[IdolEyes787]

Unfortunately true.
Not to disparage anyone but on certain sites that allow freeleech on packs(that's meant to give people with poorer connections a break) who seems to be doing most of the uploading -people with 4 Tb up and a plus 10 ratio.
Give me a break.

[dunson]

Overseeding is a serious problem and I am 95% set on not using my seedbox anymore in part because I don't want to be a part of this problem any longer. My buffers are just way too big since they are much greater than the amount I've downloaded for my own enjoyment. Speed is great, but the bandwith disparity has seriously deleterious effects on the torrent economy and even the community. It's fun to rock a 100/100 connection and a couple of TBs a month, but that's not what this is about. Bring it back to content and community rather than focusing on your ratio.

[Skerven]

My question was & still is, why do people need the speed ?
yeah, the "need for speed" (clever..) is not unconditional (for most). there is a conflict of interests between efficiency and equity -


with extremely high speeds, the layman with a small pipe finds it extremely difficult to maintain an adequate ratio.
with extremely low speeds, the layman with a small pipe finds it extremely easy to maintain an adequate ratio.

there is a conflict of interests.

i value speed on a site unconditionally. i couldn't care less if people have a hard time uploading on a nice site.

that's the price of being connected to people who max out your bandwidth.* that's the price of expecting everyone to seed what they give back. so, either get a high-bandwidth or stop complaining. you can't have your cake and eat it too.

*idealistically, you could surmise that if everyone had equal bandwidth and shared all their torrents, that people would always max our their pipes; sadly, that is not an accurate reflection of reality. you could argue that, since a bandwidth-dissonance is inevitable, we could mollify the paupers by requiring low ratios... but that is contrary to what is fundamental to the spirit of torrenting - to seed back what you get.

[stoi]

wtf, bit strong and i dont agree with you one bit lol

Take me for example.

DL = 20 meg or about 1800KBs

UL = 756K or about 80KBs

and i get capped for 5 hours a day (even though today its been about 10 hours and its pissing me off) to

5 MBS dl

25KBs upload.

So i download a 7 gig file, i can download it in 30 minutes at my max speed, but to upload it i will have to wait 2 days at least, and thats at my max speed throughout, take the fact of the SB users and after the 3 days lack of leechers on the torrents, i would struggle to get a 1 ratio.

Now that is through no fault of mine, its my stupid ISP, but it also does not mean im a "Fucking Leech" as you so eloquantly put it.

[IdolEyes787]

I was assuming he wasn't being serious.:unsure:

If you are Skerven then all I can say is that monk3y,dunson and myself are all on seedboxes and don't share your limited viewpoint.
But then again maybe we're willing to consider other interests beside our own.

[Skerven]

Now that is through no fault of mine, its my stupid ISP, but it also does not mean im a "Fucking Leech" as you so eloquantly put it.
if you don't seed back exactly or more than you get, then you are a leecher.

try to manage how much you download by how much you upload.

[stoi]

I do i use NG and i run my own tracker, not that i have ever cheated my ratio before ever, but this is why we have the seed points mod, to get away from the problems low upload BW users get themselves into.

and what about old torrents where there is never ever likely to be another leecher, so you cant upload to anyone, how are you supposed to get a ratio back on those the old fashioned way. Even you would struggle with those i bet.

[Skerven]

If you are Skerven then all I can say is that monk3y,dunson and myself are all on seedboxes and don't share your limited viewpoint.
lol i'm done

[stoi]

oops double post, not sure what happened there.

[t0mmy]

cry me a river

Ella Fitzgerald or Justin Timberlake ?

justin timberlake :D!

[yayyyyyy]

wtf, bit strong and i dont agree with you one bit lol

Take me for example.

DL = 20 meg or about 1800KBs

UL = 756K or about 80KBs

and i get capped for 5 hours a day (even though today its been about 10 hours and its pissing me off) to

5 MBS dl

25KBs upload.

So i download a 7 gig file, i can download it in 30 minutes at my max speed, but to upload it i will have to wait 2 days at least, and thats at my max speed throughout, take the fact of the SB users and after the 3 days lack of leechers on the torrents, i would struggle to get a 1 ratio.

Now that is through no fault of mine, its my stupid ISP, but it also does not mean im a "Fucking Leech" as you so eloquantly put it.


there are ppl pay A LOT OF MONEY for their own 100mbit / gbit links... maybe they would pay way less buying 1gbit down / 10mbit up... is that what you want?
should everybody take crappy connections and be justified??
"I'm poor, do not ban me, I just want to leech from your damn fast pipe without giving back enough"

IF YOU CANNOT GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY THE SAME AMOUNT YOU ARE TAKING FROM IT YOU ARE LEECHING.

"peer to peer" means that every peer is equal to the others... all have the same rights... but all are also obligate to follow the same rule!

Nobody like parasites that lives on the bandwidth of others... and worst if they come here complaing about overseeding.... wtf!

if overseeding is a problem for you: go on the piratebay... there you will see how does UNDERseeding works....

[stoi]

Ok we will take the SP mod off and go back to P2L then, then the only one that is benefiting is me.

sorry but this thread is starting to do my head in.

its a viscious circle.

start off, 4 years ago, slow downloads but everyone could seed back to a decent ratio, even over 1 most of the time.

3 years ago, Seedboxes come on the scene.

1st of all Uploaders of scene axx had them, which is great, fine and bloody dandy if your an uploader, it is preferable that you have one, especially if your releasing scene straight after pre.

2 years ago, non scene uploaders started to get them, started jumping on torrents as soon as the uploader uploaded them, to get a huge ratio and fuck the poor sods with slow uploads, as long as my e-penis is huge, fuck them.

Great for fast downloads, shit for an equal ratio throughout the site, especially on closed communities (no new leechers that will want the stuff after 2 days).

Now members that would have never ever thought of getting a sb are getting one, to guess what, keep up with all the seedbox users.

soon we will have 95% of the members on seedboxes, and even if you have one, it will still be hard to keep a ratio. because even if you have a Seedbox, if 40 seeders are seeding 10 * the torrent each and there are only 400 leechers, then 400 of those are going to have ratios under 1 if you like it or not. doesnt matter what upload they have got.

and i am not talking about uplaoding at a snails pace through choice, i am talking about members getting bullied out of seeding but trying their best.

OK i love seedboxes, ive used one and thought it was cheating, but thats another story lol but you can have too many on a site, which is detrimental to the site as a whole imo

the trick is to find the right balance, fast downloads, but also a chance for the ones that either cant afford a seedbox, or just plain dont want one, a chance to stay a member. and P2L is not the answer, that means i am benefiting off your fast pipes, and exploiting the ones that dont have a fast upload, now is that right?

[Spillage]

So we're all agreed then ..... overseeders are the new paedo's

[dunson]

My question was & still is, why do people need the speed ?
yeah, the "need for speed" (clever..) is not unconditional (for most). there is a conflict of interests between efficiency and equity -


with extremely high speeds, the layman with a small pipe finds it extremely difficult to maintain an adequate ratio.
with extremely low speeds, the layman with a small pipe finds it extremely easy to maintain an adequate ratio.

there is a conflict of interests.

i value speed on a site unconditionally. i couldn't care less if people have a hard time uploading on a nice site.

that's the price of being connected to people who max out your bandwidth.* that's the price of expecting everyone to seed what they give back. so, either get a high-bandwidth or stop complaining. you can't have your cake and eat it too.

*idealistically, you could surmise that if everyone had equal bandwidth and shared all their torrents, that people would always max our their pipes; sadly, that is not an accurate reflection of reality. you could argue that, since a bandwidth-dissonance is inevitable, we could mollify the paupers by requiring low ratios... but that is contrary to what is fundamental to the spirit of torrenting - to seed back what you get.

Exactly, seeding back 3x or 4x what you took is therefore a problem. So go stroke your epenis and think about that.

[Skerven]

and i am not talking about uplaoding at a snails pace through choice, i am talking about members getting bullied out of seeding but trying their best.


why don't you understand that it's not the site's duty to please everyone? instead, the site should be concerned with its quality. it is foolish to sacrifice quality for appeasement. seedboxes only help.

overseeding would be a non-issue if there weren't so many leechers everywhere.

the inherent problem isn't the "overseeding" of the seedboxes. it is the "underseeding" of the leechers.



Exactly, seeding back 3x or 4x what you took is therefore a problem. So go stroke your epenis and think about that.
i suggest, then, that you go propose to a random site that they set ratio caps. :lol:

[stoi]

well i think BCG quality is top notch, we do have a 10 in the ratings here, so we must be doing something right.

what a stupid thing to say, overseeding would not be a problem if there were not so many leechers lol i hope you were joking with that one, i can never tell.

way bittorrent works.

5 gig torrent, 40 seeders dl the release from elsewhere and have 40 ratios on it (i have seen none uploaders with 400 ratios on 1 torrent before)

thats 40* 40 = 1600, so in turn thats 1600 leechers that cant, whatever they do get to a 1 ratio.

all of those will have to stay on the torrent, hoping the seed box users go away, and hope that 1600 new leechers jump on.

so overseeding does contribute to hit and running.

OK if a member limits his upload and just jumps off the torrent as soon as he has finished downloading it, then thats not the SB problem, and that to me is a proper hit and run, but this thread has escalated to anyone with a ratio of under 1 on every torrent is a hit and runner, which i do not agree with at all.

[respawn40]

Ok we will take the SP mod off and go back to P2L then, then the only one that is benefiting is me.

sorry but this thread is starting to do my head in.

its a viscious circle.

start off, 4 years ago, slow downloads but everyone could seed back to a decent ratio, even over 1 most of the time.

3 years ago, Seedboxes come on the scene.

1st of all Uploaders of scene axx had them, which is great, fine and bloody dandy if your an uploader, it is preferable that you have one, especially if your releasing scene straight after pre.

2 years ago, non scene uploaders started to get them, started jumping on torrents as soon as the uploader uploaded them, to get a huge ratio and fuck the poor sods with slow uploads, as long as my e-penis is huge, fuck them.

Great for fast downloads, shit for an equal ratio throughout the site, especially on closed communities (no new leechers that will want the stuff after 2 days).

Now members that would have never ever thought of getting a sb are getting one, to guess what, keep up with all the seedbox users.

soon we will have 95% of the members on seedboxes, and even if you have one, it will still be hard to keep a ratio. because even if you have a Seedbox, if 40 seeders are seeding 10 * the torrent each and there are only 400 leechers, then 400 of those are going to have ratios under 1 if you like it or not. doesnt matter what upload they have got.

and i am not talking about uplaoding at a snails pace through choice, i am talking about members getting bullied out of seeding but trying their best.

OK i love seedboxes, ive used one and thought it was cheating, but thats another story lol but you can have too many on a site, which is detrimental to the site as a whole imo

the trick is to find the right balance, fast downloads, but also a chance for the ones that either cant afford a seedbox, or just plain dont want one, a chance to stay a member. and P2L is not the answer, that means i am benefiting off your fast pipes, and exploiting the ones that dont have a fast upload, now is that right?


Stoi, I couldn't have said it better myself.

[grimms]

I agree with stoi it will phase everything out if you read the quoted timeline lol. You need balance.

[Polarbear]

why do you think so many trackers offer ratio benefits to their members? there's hardly one tracker nowadays that doesn't offer free leech, seeding boni, multiple upload count, etc.

ok, there's tl. they compensate it with a huge userbase.

look at the amount of scene trackers we have that all offer the same content. speed or the lack of seeders is not their problem. they all need more leechers and are desperately trying to get them.

overseeding is a vicious circle. first there will be lots of seedboxes and many people can't keep their ratio, because they can't seed back the files they download. consequence: they don't leech anymore or leech somewhere else and try to co-seed on the overseeded tracker.

of course this makes the problem even worse. result: less leechers again.

now comes the point.

the seedbox users realise that even with their expensive pipes they can't increase their ratio anymore for the simple fact that nobodys leeching.

seedbox users say bye bye. end of uploads, end of tracker, end of story.

thank god that even overseeded trackers like sct realised this problem and introduced benefits that make it easier for the majority of users to leech.

the classical ratio system without freeleech or any other benefits only works on trackers with huge userbases nowadays. it also makes sense on trackers that rely only on user uploads such as what, waffles or tc (and even they have freeleech). on those trackers you can always make your individual upload to improve your ratio.

we have an oversupply of content and speed when it comes to scene releases.

what some trackers don't understand until today is that the promotion only on upload is a major problem. admit it or not, many people only upload and buy seedboxes for promotion, reputation on the tracker and to get invites. the slogan on most trackers still is: download as little and upload as much as you can, then you're a good user and get promoted. this has got to change. download has to play a role in promotion criteria.

it's people that leech who keep sites alive. without them the seedboxes sellers would go bankrupt.

good news is there are trackers like ftn or fsc (bcg also afaik) who understood the problem. they do everything to make it more comfortable for the average member to use trackers what they are meant for: to download warez.

[waki]

what some trackers don't understand until today is that the promotion only on upload is a major problem. admit it or not, many people only upload and buy seedboxes for promotion, reputation on the tracker and to get invites. the slogan on most trackers still is: download as little and upload as much as you can, then you're a good user and get promoted. this has got to change. download has to play a role in promotion criteria.


word. i totally agree with this. but in the other hand, u can't 'force' people to download. forexample: if u don't dl 10gb/mo u will be banned, etc. it would be the same situation... dl bytes (not movies, games because you don't need them) to keep your account alive. i know you're talking about promotions, but it's the same. it's not going to be better if someone dl a movie he don't need...

another the problem is, everyone have 10-20 accounts on various scene sites and ofcourse every site provides almost the same content. u won't gonna dl the same movie from XYZ and ASD too... it's a race, just like in real life. every tracker tries to make something special, get better pre, etc... so just like irl, the faster/stronger gonna win, and the others gonna dissapear.

Natural selection

[Skerven]

look at the amount of scene trackers we have that all offer the same content. speed or the lack of seeders is not their problem. they all need more leechers and are desperately trying to get them.
"they" are the leechers. those leechers need downloaders. leechers are people with a ratio less than one. do not confuse the word leecher with the word downloader.
ever. again. ;)



overseeding is a vicious circle. first there will be lots of seedboxes and many people can't keep their ratio, because they can't seed back the files they download. consequence: they don't leech anymore or leech somewhere else and try to co-seed on the overseeded tracker.
if your claim that the only reason people get seedboxes is to improve their ratio as an end in itself, and not so they can download more data, then i suppose that would be a problem. i don't like that assumption.
if this is true, then i suppose ratio caps would be better than ... redistributing and giving away upload credit.
ew. i'd rather justly punish the seedboxers than unjustly reward the leechers! call it an anti-trust law.



it's people that leech who keep sites alive. without them the seedboxes sellers would go bankrupt.
no, it's people who download. downloaders, not leechers. downloaders include other seedboxers. you do not call people with a ratio above 1.0 ... seeders, do you:



downloader:
A downloader is any peer that does not have the entire file and is downloading the file. This term is used in Bram Cohen's Python implementation, and lacks the negative connotation attributed to leech. Bram prefers downloader to leech because BitTorrent's tit-for-tat ensures downloaders also upload and thus should not be unfairly branded leech.
leech:
A leech is usually a peer who has a negative effect on the swarm by having a very poor share ratio - in other words, downloading much more than they upload. Most leeches are users on asymmetric internet connections and do not leave their BitTorrent client open to seed the file after their download has completed. However, some leeches intentionally avoid uploading by using modified clients or excessively limiting their upload speed. The term leech, however, can be used simply to describe a peer - or any client that does not have 100% of the data.yay, proper terminology!

[TP635]

Last time I have a good look at a tracker torrent page; it says:
etc, size, snatched ,seeders, leechers, as the heading.
can't see downloader.:happy:

[Skerven]

Last time I have a good look at a tracker torrent page; it says:
etc, size, snatched ,seeders, leechers, as the heading.
can't see downloader.:happy:
he was being misleading. there was ambiguity. i simply elucidated.

[hitman51]

this problem is only in sct and speed whore sites

[IdolEyes787]

The term leech, however, can be used simply to describe a peer - or any client that does not have 100% of the data.[/s]yay, proper terminology!

Interesting that you felt it necessary to cross out anything that doesn't support your argument.

Care to elucidate?