View Full Version : France's Heat Toll Soars
zapjb
08-17-2003, 04:30 AM
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0803/...15heatwave.html (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0803/15heatwave.html)
How the hell did this happen? Fn sad.
hobbes
08-17-2003, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by zapjb@17 August 2003 - 05:30
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0803/...15heatwave.html (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0803/15heatwave.html)
How the hell did this happen? Fn sad.
Even though America and France are not seeing eye to eye at the moment, as an individual I give my condolences.
A regretful situation, to be sure.
Where is Jacque Chirac in all this?
Probably too busy trying to bully Albania or Cameroon about something.
Neil__
08-19-2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by j2k4@18 August 2003 - 15:38
A regretful situation, to be sure.
Where is Jacque Chirac in all this?
Probably too busy trying to bully Albania or Cameroon about something.
That's rich for an American.
Hobbes
Even though America and France are not seeing eye to eye at the moment, as an individual I give my condolences.
How magnanimous.
Neil
Originally posted by Neil__+19 August 2003 - 17:20--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neil__ @ 19 August 2003 - 17:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@18 August 2003 - 15:38
A regretful situation, to be sure.
Where is Jacque Chirac in all this?
Probably too busy trying to bully Albania or Cameroon about something.
That's rich for an American.
Hobbes
Even though America and France are not seeing eye to eye at the moment, as an individual I give my condolences.
How magnanimous.
Neil[/b][/quote]
Oh, Neil-quit being so bitter.
I was just being anti-Chirac.
Hobbes WAS exhibiting typically arrogant pro-Americanism, though.
He should be de-bagged and radished, then extradited to stand before the Queen's Bench. ;)
zapjb
08-20-2003, 05:03 AM
I just don't get how 5,000 people die from the heat in 3 weeks. It's sad, yes. This should've never happened. It's not the 3rd world. They have clean safe water, it's not the desert. I'm a USA citizen. Can a French citizen explain this? Thanks. Peace.
clocker
08-20-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by zapjb@19 August 2003 - 23:03
I just don't get how 5,000 people die from the heat in 3 weeks. It's sad, yes. This should've never happened. It's not the 3rd world. They have clean safe water, it's not the desert. I'm a USA citizen. Can a French citizen explain this? Thanks. Peace.
I too, am mystified.
Here in Colorado we are in our 7th week of 90+ degree weather and I haven't read of any spike in the death toll.
Outside of the few morons who lock their kids in their car and then leave them, the heat hasn't seemed to be much more than an inconvenience.
As zapjib pointed out, France is hardly a third world country, so how does this happen?
Neil__
08-20-2003, 12:15 PM
It is crazy. But it does show how complacency can catch us out.
France was obviously completely unprepared for the heat and has paid the ultimate price.
Remember in Colorado your used to the heat and are prepared in advance.
Still doesn't explain how a country 25 miles from the U.K. can have such problems.
Neil.
Originally posted by clocker+20 August 2003 - 13:08--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 20 August 2003 - 13:08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-zapjb@19 August 2003 - 23:03
I just don't get how 5,000 people die from the heat in 3 weeks. It's sad, yes. This should've never happened. It's not the 3rd world. They have clean safe water, it's not the desert. I'm a USA citizen. Can a French citizen explain this? Thanks. Peace.
I too, am mystified.
Here in Colorado we are in our 7th week of 90+ degree weather and I haven't read of any spike in the death toll.
Outside of the few morons who lock their kids in their car and then leave them, the heat hasn't seemed to be much more than an inconvenience.
As zapjib pointed out, France is hardly a third world country, so how does this happen? [/b][/quote]
What is the humidity level in colorado ?
I suspect it is probably in the region of 25%, as opposed to the 85% levels we have been experiencing here. The problem is that the population is not acclimatised to these sort of weather patterns, the average temperature being much lower, so these extremes are much harder to cope with.
At the same time the high humidity levels mean that sweating doesn't have much effect, there is nowhere for the perspiration to go so it doesn't have the required cooling effect. And because there is rarely any need, very few places have air conditioning, so moving people to hospitals does nothing for their condition, it merely fills the hospitals.
Neil__
08-20-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by lynx@20 August 2003 - 13:51
I suspect it is probably in the region of 25%, as opposed to the 85% levels we have been experiencing here. The problem is that the population is not acclimatised to these sort of weather patterns, the average temperature being much lower, so these extremes are much harder to cope with.
That explaines a lot Lynx.
The very young and the very old get caught out every winter with extreme and unexpected cold weather. It's just the same with heat especially when the humidity is as high as 85%
I know I would have a lot of trouble coping with those levels and I am quite fit and only 39. If I were old and weak not to mention unwell then it would cause me terrible problems as I do not take heat and humidity well.
What a tradgedy. lets hope lessons have been learned and the population will be educated as to how to cope with future heatwaves.
Neil
Barbarossa
08-20-2003, 12:59 PM
It's August. France is notorious for "shutting down" in August, 'cos everyone goes on holiday.
I suspect the ones left behind, the sick, the old, and the infirm, are the ones who are dying, because there's no-one to look after them.
I don't quite buy this line of reasoning, at least in the numbers we are seeing in France.
Even granting a general state of unpreparedness, the theory almost presupposes a physiological or genetic insufficiency in the French; which is certainly not the case.
There has to be more to it than is yet being reported.
Maybe it's some sort of US death ray, but since most of the French are on holiday, only those left behind are affected. That will teach them to diss the yanks.
Originally posted by lynx@20 August 2003 - 11:40
Maybe it's some sort of US death ray, but since most of the French are on holiday, only those left behind are affected. That will teach them to diss the yanks.
An intriguing possibility, Lynx, but if it were so, we would target the young, healthy holiday-goers, not the ones left behind.
Barbarossa
08-21-2003, 04:33 PM
It's not confined to France either!
LISBON (Reuters) - Portuguese health authorities say 1,316 people died from a heatwave that gripped the Iberian nation.
The figures were from a preliminary Health Ministry report on deaths between late July and August 12, news agency Lusa reported late on Wednesday. The estimate is based on a comparison with the same period last year.
The heatwave was the hottest and longest recorded in Portugal. It fanned the country's worst forest fires in more than 20 years, with an area almost as big as Luxembourg destroyed and at least 15 people killed in blazes.
The heatwave affected much of Europe, causing forest fires and a number of deaths across the Continent.
The number of deaths in Portugal were less than during a 1981 heatwave and about the same as one in 1991 because of emergency measures put in place because of the fires, Lusa said.
well, we in the uk got 101 degree weather, and were only a few miles from france. We're definatly not prepared for the weather, but as far as I remeber no real huge number of deaths
Althigh apparently now we're getting great whites around england because the climate suits them better :blink:
I'm not sure we have the reporting procedures for working out how many die from high temperatures, so things in the UK may be as bad or even worse than other places.
Rat Faced
08-23-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by RGX@23 August 2003 - 14:08
well, we in the uk got 101 degree weather, and were only a few miles from france. We're definatly not prepared for the weather, but as far as I remeber no real huge number of deaths
Althigh apparently now we're getting great whites around england because the climate suits them better :blink:
They have a 6 month waiting list, before the hospital lets them in to pronounce them dead ;)
Originally posted by Rat Faced+23 August 2003 - 16:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rat Faced @ 23 August 2003 - 16:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RGX@23 August 2003 - 14:08
well, we in the uk got 101 degree weather, and were only a few miles from france. We're definatly not prepared for the weather, but as far as I remeber no real huge number of deaths
Althigh apparently now we're getting great whites around england because the climate suits them better :blink:
They have a 6 month waiting list, before the hospital lets them in to pronounce them dead ;) [/b][/quote]
That's disgusting, you would think that those great whites, being unregistered immigrants, would get far better treatment. ;)
leonidas
09-29-2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by zapjb@20 August 2003 - 06:03
I just don't get how 5,000 people die from the heat in 3 weeks. It's sad, yes. This should've never happened. It's not the 3rd world. They have clean safe water, it's not the desert. I'm a USA citizen. Can a French citizen explain this? Thanks. Peace.
Our politics, are just a piece of crap. The french medical system use to be the best in the world, but since 5 or 7 years ago, there is no politic willing to spend money to develop it.
We have for example a lack of doctors & surgerists, while in our medical universities thousands of students can't access to specialised medical formations, as only the very very best of them are selected. And it's not a matter of quality as you could think, but only a matter of money.
There's also a problem with the nurses as for economical matter hospitals aren't gift the suficient credits to employ new ones. So most of them have to work 10 or 12 hrs a day, and without a free day for 15 days. Nurses had manifested pacificly in 1999 to denounce their working conditions, & they were dispatched, sprinkled by hight presure water by the CRS (The french security police corps they sent for manifestations).
These are some of the main problems.
The "socialists" (equivalent of democrats in USA), didn't do a lot to change the situation & the right-wing coalition( equivalent of US republicans) now in charge of the country, are doing worse! They've just edit a new law which stop the refunding of a lot of medicines.
Also you might take into account that France isn't usualy a so hot region, & no one exept some fuckin rich people in the mediteranean coast has a cooling system in his house.
That's why lots of people, the very majority of them old, died because medical structures were overfilled.
France now is just following the american and english way, & It's strange that there isn't already a french tv show about hospitals like this american one with Georges Clooney.
Guillaume
09-29-2003, 11:29 PM
Leonidas has summed up the exact causes of tht tragedy... However a little precision is necessary: since the topic was started we had an "official body count", the number of victims now is 14,802!!! :(
That government won't last long I think, 1789 bis here we come!
Rat Faced
09-29-2003, 11:42 PM
France now is just following the american and english way
The American way and British way are totally different from each other...
The UK, like France, has a National Health Service and Private medical facilities are the minority.
I think most medical care in the USA is funded by Insurance.....maybe a US citizen could clarify?
hobbes
09-29-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Rat Faced@30 September 2003 - 00:42
France now is just following the american and english way
The American way and British way are totally different from each other...
The UK, like France, has a National Health Service and Private medical facilities are the minority.
I think most medical care in the USA is funded by Insurance.....maybe a US citizen could clarify?
Oh yes, and it is quite a bite every month, even for those who are young and healthy.
Guillaume
09-29-2003, 11:52 PM
I don't know about the state of the english and american health system, cause I never had to go in a hospital ther, but what Leonidas meant, I guess, was that you've now got to spend a lot ( to be treated in a private clinic and/or pay the prescriptions) or wait a very long time (even in the emergency rooms!! ) to gain access to a decent treatment despite the original National Health Service
leonidas
09-30-2003, 01:20 AM
Yes that's what I meant. I think in england you'll not get the same care wether you're in a private clinic paid by your own insurance, and in an public hospital. At least that's what I've heard and see on tv news and investigation french tv shows. Also , a english freind of my parents had to wait like 8 month for an important surgery.
Tikibonbon
09-30-2003, 01:27 AM
*yawn* suckas can't take a little heat, just another day in the states.........
Originally posted by hobbes+29 September 2003 - 18:50--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 29 September 2003 - 18:50)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rat Faced@30 September 2003 - 00:42
France now is just following the american and english way
The American way and British way are totally different from each other...
The UK, like France, has a National Health Service and Private medical facilities are the minority.
I think most medical care in the USA is funded by Insurance.....maybe a US citizen could clarify?
Oh yes, and it is quite a bite every month, even for those who are young and healthy. [/b][/quote]
I am alive because of the availability of cutting-edge medical care.
I am $40,000 in debt because of the availablity of cutting-edge medical care.
I am glad to be alive in order to pay my debt.
That I am American into the bargain probably renders me irretrievably stupid in the eyes of some here, but there it is.
Billy_Dean
10-01-2003, 09:44 AM
j2k4
That I am American into the bargain probably renders me irretrievably stupid in the eyes of some here, but there it is.
I wouldn't say irretrievably stupid, there's always hope.
:)
Rat Faced
10-01-2003, 05:43 PM
english freind of my parents had to wait like 8 month for an important surgery.
Depends on what you call "Important" surgery.
Im quite happy waiting a couple of months for a Hernia operation (as an example) so that someone that needs a heart bypass or kidney transplant goes 1st....its as it should be.
Its very rare for lifesaving operations to have a waiting list, unless its something outside the hospitals power...eg Lack of Doners, Conversly, non-life threatening operations do have a larger waiting list than anyone would like...
I have a great respect for the people that work for the NHS in the UK, the lack of investment that France is feeling now, started in 1979 in the UK....thats a lot of underinvestment to make up....
leonidas
10-01-2003, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Rat Faced@1 October 2003 - 18:43
english freind of my parents had to wait like 8 month for an important surgery.
Depends on what you call "Important" surgery.
Im quite happy waiting a couple of months for a Hernia operation (as an example) so that someone that needs a heart bypass or kidney transplant goes 1st....its as it should be.
Its very rare for lifesaving operations to have a waiting list, unless its something outside the hospitals power...eg Lack of Doners, Conversly, non-life threatening operations do have a larger waiting list than anyone would like...
I have a great respect for the people that work for the NHS in the UK, the lack of investment that France is feeling now, started in 1979 in the UK....thats a lot of underinvestment to make up....
Thanks to your dear margaret, I learnt that at my history-lessons in hight-school, and she did also kick down the workers syndicates and other things. Old Biach!! <_<
Actually, I've ask my mother, and it wasn't a surgery. The guy was indeed in the terminal phase of a cancer, and was expecting for a room to finish his life peacefully.
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