partial seeding improves your ratio - a myth

[Polarbear]

many people think partial seeding is a good way to improve your ratio. let me tell you why i think this is wrong.

let's pretend you grab one rar of a popular xvid and seed it. let's also pretend the torrent gets 20 snatches after you start to seed:

20 x 14mb = 280mb upload - 14mb = 266mb buffer, file ratio 20.0

let's now pretend you donwload the whole movie.

20 x 700mb = 14gb upload - 700mb = 13,3gb buffer, file ratio 20.0

the ratio improvement is exactly the same. it doesn't matter wether you grab only a part of the torrent or the whole thing. the key factor is the total number of snatches you get.

when you download the whole movie you can:

a.) watch it (which is the purpose of downloading movies in the first place)
b.) get a much higher buffer!

please don't tell me that you save harddisk space. if you can't afford 700mb saved to your hd, get a bigger one (they're cheap) or delete some files.

the only case where partial downloading makes sense is, if there's a pack and you only want a portion of the content.

[apextwin146]

wat if the 20 snatches are by 20 bit-tards who believe in downloading a single rar ....

EDIT :- Anyways i thght that partial seeding was when there was like a very big movie pack( <25gb) and you wanted just some movies so u just download them and seed them ...

[droste]

If you have a slow connection, like me, then partial seeding is better.
It takes quite a lot of time to leech a 700mb movie with 0.25mbit/0.25mbit.
The others snatchers who will jump on the file after me will pass me quite fast and I will be the one who leeches from them. Always when I grab a movie it will only leech, not seed at all....

[soulreaper]

LOL

Partial seeding is probably the only/best way for newbies to increase their ratio esp for the latest torrents(esp on bitmetv with RSS/IRC feeds enabled).

Let's say you dl 14-20mb of the latest 172 mb torrent the second it's released. You'd be able to upload about 150-250 mb in a matter of a few hours with an upspeed of 30-40 KB/s. You can continue to partially seed that torrent to feed your ratio buffer. This is especially helpful for users with bad speeds.

However,If I choose to dl the entire 172 mb, by the time I finished dlding it there would be so many seeders that I'd be seeding back about 20-30 mb.

In conclusion, partial seeding works like a charm for me(esp on bmtv) and it's certainly not a myth.

[Raban]

partial seeding work fine the only real problem with it is getting in trouble with staff... to keep in the best standing on sites you don't want any confusion... nor do you want them to suspect you of cheating or scamming or whatnot... partial seeding leads to account stats and a download history that doesn't really match up.

personally i'd rather not risk losing an account over it.

[ovisan]

They allow it on TL
I asked the staff, they said its okay to partial-seed to increase my ratio but not too much...

[soulreaper]

Partial seeding is not only allowed,its encouraged!

[MadIrish]

many people think partial seeding is a good way to improve your ratio. let me tell you why i think this is wrong.

let's pretend you grab one rar of a popular xvid and seed it. let's also pretend you get 20 snatches after you start to seed:

20 x 14mb = 280mb upload - 14mb = 266mb buffer, file ratio 20.0

let's now pretend you donwload the whole movie.

20 x 700mb = 14gb upload - 700mb = 13,3gb buffer, file ratio 20.0

the ratio improvement is exactly the same. it doesn't matter wether you grab only a part of the torrent or the whole thing. the key factor is the total number of snatches you get.

when you download the whole movie you can:

a.) watch it (which is the purpose of downloading movies in the first place)
b.) get a much higher buffer!

please don't tell me that you save harddisk space. if you can't afford 700mb saved to your hd, get a bigger one (they're cheap) or delete some files.

the only case where partial downloading makes sense is, if there's a pack and you only want a portion of the content.

Agree with the sentiment generally, but there is a flaw in your maths dude. Unless using a seedbox or something (in which case I can't see someone needing to p.seed anyway), its going to be an awful lot easier for someone on a weak home connection to upload 20 x 14mb than it will be 20 x 700mb. It takes a hell of a lot longer, and the seed - leech ratio will be increasing exponentially as you go, making it infinitely harder to continue maxing your upload.

Before I changed isp a year or so ago, what with throttling and with the damn slow top rate, I could only u/l a max of ~1gb/day no matter what. Were I to have partial seeded I could have gradually attained a better ratio on the sites I was using...... however, I didn't, I just downloaded only what I knew I had the b/w to seed back, and always kept a positive ratio anyway (including on some sites supposedly among the hardest to seed on).

The real problem with partial seeding (on anything other than packs) is that its simply lame. Firstly, you're downloading something you can't actually watch/listen to, as you point out, which is silly. Secondly, it distorts the numbers in a swarm, making it appear like there's leeches when there aren't. Anyone who says they can't maintain a ratio without it is just wrong, they just need to stop downloading so much and start seeding longer.

Also, what is it with "buffering" accounts anyway. I mean, seriously, why? The ideal ratio for a user to have on a site is surely 1.05? On sites where I have a ratio significantly more than that because of FL, bonuses, or just natural seeding for a long time, I deliberately leave some torrents for days, weeks even before leeching them so that others who might need the u/l more can get it. Then I seed the files for weeks myself, keeping them alive and knowing that my b/w won't be too saturated by having tons active.

The only justification for deliberately building huge buffers that I can see are (a) account trading (excessively lame), (b) e-penis (even more lame), or (c) because you want to h&r later (the most lame).


Partial seeding is not only allowed,its encouraged!


Not on all sites.... its explicitly against the rules on TorrentBytes :clap:

[TP635]

I think you make a bad assumption.
20 x 14mb = 280mb upload - 14mb = 266mb buffer, file ratio 20.0
is a reasonable assumption.

But
20 x 700mb = 14gb upload - 700mb = 13,3gb buffer, file ratio 20.0,
is just way off, even if the seeding time is double this may not happen.

[IdolEyes787]

I fully appreciate that some people have a hard time maintaining ratio on certain sites but in my opinion partial seeding is just another way of cheating.
Trackers need to look at changing their policies so people don't have to resort to playing dirty.

[zedex]

its no exactly true what u say polarbear , lets say i have a poor connection . well if i would download the entire movie while some other members download it with their seedbox then by the time i will finish they already seeded the hell out of this file and im left with a poor ratio on that torrent with no way to get it back up .

[renwickftw]

The problem with your analysis is that it gets harder to seed as the torrent gets older, especially on xvid torrents, like in your example. As the leechers become seeders, you will have competition for those 20 snatches, and it will be almost impossible to get 13GB uploaded on a 700mb torrent file. Of course, it can be possible, but it will require a very very good line, or a very very long time. I dont know many people who have good connections that partial seed. The people who partial seed are those new to bittorent/trackers and/or have a very connection. Expecting somebody which a 50kb/s upload to get 13GB uploaded on a 700mb movie is just out of this planet.

[Polarbear]

If you have a slow connection, like me, then partial seeding is better.
It takes quite a lot of time to leech a 700mb movie with 0.25mbit/0.25mbit.
The others snatchers who will jump on the file after me will pass me quite fast and I will be the one who leeches from them. Always when I grab a movie it will only leech, not seed at all....

if you have a slow connection faster peers in the swarm will be favored by leechers, but that has nothing to do with how much data you offer.

you jump on a brand new torrent. as soon as data is on your hd, you are able seed it to other peers. the more data you get, the more you can seed. it's linear. that's why it doesn't make any sense to stop downloading before the torrent is finished.

there's no time advantage. by the time you continue to download you're already seeding that small portion you originally wanted to stop afterwards.

peers don't care wether you're a partial seeder or not. they take what you have.

again. partial seeding doesn't have an advantage. if you're connection is slow, it's slow. you will not be able to upload more if you offer less chunks to the swarm.


its no exactly true what u say polarbear , lets say i have a poor connection . well if i would download the entire movie while some other members download it with their seedbox then by the time i will finish they already seeded the hell out of this file and im left with a poor ratio on that torrent with no way to get it back up .

by the time you finished your portion of the file, the seedboxes will have it as well and seeded the hell out of that portion. it doesn't make a difference.

[IdolEyes787]

you jump on a brand new torrent. as soon as data is on your hd, you are able seed it to other peers. the more data you get, the more you can seed. it's linear. that's why it doesn't make any sense to stop downloading before the torrent is finished.



That ties into another and maybe bigger problem having to jump on a torrent as soon as it's made available.
Fast connection or slow on some trackers if you fail to do this you are basically screwed.
There should be bonuses available for time that you seed beyond get out of jail free card.

[renwickftw]

Partial seeding never had an advantage over snatching the whole thing. It was just a way for people with slow connections, or new to the tracker, to build up a nice cushion first. Even if you have more chunks to upload, doesnt mean you will be able to upload them 20 times, since the number of chunks you have will be a lot greater and a person with a slow connection wouldnt be able to seed all of them. By the time a person with a slow connection seeds back an amount of data, the leechers may have already gotten the other chunks of data from faster seeders, leaving you with no one to seed to. The amount you have uploaded then will depend on your connection - if you have a fast/decent one then you should have more than 700mb uploaded. If not, then you will have a negative ratio, but if you had partial seeded, it wouldve been positive. It all comes down to your speed.

[Polarbear]

I think you make a bad assumption.
20 x 14mb = 280mb upload - 14mb = 266mb buffer, file ratio 20.0
is a reasonable assumption.

But
20 x 700mb = 14gb upload - 700mb = 13,3gb buffer, file ratio 20.0,
is just way off, even if the seeding time is double this may not happen.

that would mean peers prefer you because you offer less chunks. that's not true. when 20 people snatch the movie, there are only 20 people for your one rar file as well. you won't seed more in relation with your partial dl.


By the time a person with a slow connection seeds back an amount of data, the leechers may have already gotten the other chunks of data from faster seeders, leaving you with no one to seed to.

the same happens with your chunk. you all make one error in reasoning. of course the later you jump on a torrent, the less snatchers you get for your chunks. it just simply doesn't matter how many chunks you have. they're offered instantly to the other peers. chunks are downloaded and offered simultaniously. the amount of chunks doesn't play a role. there's no time advantage when you stop downloading.

peers have only two criteria why to connect to another peer and download. availabilty (is the chunk i need there) and speed (let's neclet encryption and others). so you simply can't connect to more peers, hence upload more if you partial seed.

[yevgeny]

I recently joined bitmetv and I haven't used it much but if i didn't partial seed and upload some of the 0day files from usenet I wouldn't be able to keep my 1.0 ratio.

Ideally I wouldn't do it cos I know the tracker can't show that i have stopped downloading and am now seeding partially (if it could that would be a great innovation btw.) - it doesn't hurt the swarm in any way.

I jsut don't want to get in a downloading trap and not be able to seed which is very likely cos my connection is 20mbit/230kB/s. I need to leave my pc on to get over 1.0...i plan to donate instead (and get a connection which doesn't count upload data.) but can't right now.

[renwickftw]

I think you make a bad assumption.
20 x 14mb = 280mb upload - 14mb = 266mb buffer, file ratio 20.0
is a reasonable assumption.

But
20 x 700mb = 14gb upload - 700mb = 13,3gb buffer, file ratio 20.0,
is just way off, even if the seeding time is double this may not happen.

that would mean peers prefer you because you offer less chunks. that's not true.

Seeding 13.3GB on a 700MB file IS way off, for a person with a bad connection. Let's say that this person has 100kb/s upload, which is pretty generous. It will take him 46 minutes to seed the 280mb. For him to seed 14gb, it will take him 2333 minutes, or 38 hours. Now that is calculated at max speed. Do you think you can seed a 700mb file for 38 hours straight at max speed? I would think not, especially if it is a popular one. Now as I said before, this calculation is very generous, many people dream of having 100kb/s upload.




By the time a person with a slow connection seeds back an amount of data, the leechers may have already gotten the other chunks of data from faster seeders, leaving you with no one to seed to.

the same happens with your chunk.
But since you are downloading a lot less, it will be easier to hit a good ratio, compared to a big file.

[zedex]

the solution is to make some files freeleech so that ppl can download the whole file and seed it back without worries . like ppl here said the main problem is the comptition between seedbox owners and home connection users and its always the same ... seedbox wins by far .

[IdolEyes787]

Why do people assume a seedbox is the answer to everything ?
If there are no leechers a f**k lot of good it does you.

[zedex]

thats why i have the title "super leecher" on many trackers :D 256kb upl FTW !!!

[Polarbear]

that would mean peers prefer you because you offer less chunks. that's not true.

Seeding 13.3GB on a 700MB file IS way off, for a person with a bad connection. Let's say that this person has 100kb/s upload, which is pretty generous. It will take him 46 minutes to seed the 280mb. For him to seed 14gb, it will take him 2333 minutes, or 38 hours. Now that is calculated at max speed. Do you think you can seed a 700mb file for 38 hours straight at max speed? I would think not, especially if it is a popular one. Now as I said before, this calculation is very generous, many people dream of having 100kb/s upload.

you are telling me, that more data needs longer seedtime. what does this have to do with the fact, that the small portion of the file won't be snatched more than the whole movie? it's pretty clear that it will take more time to get a higher buffer. that doesn't explain a possible benefit of seeding only a part of the file.




By the time a person with a slow connection seeds back an amount of data, the leechers may have already gotten the other chunks of data from faster seeders, leaving you with no one to seed to.

the same happens with your chunk.

But since you are downloading a lot less, it will be easier to hit a good ratio, compared to a big file.

why? it doesn't play a role how big the file is, it depends on how much it is snatched. the amount of snatchers you get doesn't negative correlate with the amount of chunks you have of a torrent. it doesn't correlate at all! so it's not easier to hit a good ratio if you download less. you're wrong.


partial seeding is useless and doesn't have any advantage in terms of ratio or buffer. my opinion remains that it's a myth. download the whole thing and you'll end up with the same ratio improvement but a higher buffer and some content to enjoy.

[brightsid]

Maybe it is useless for buffering an account but it is really usefull for checking a torrent (watching a sample for example)

[F.B.I]

A myth... And a good one, it's almost a fact nowadays.

Nice work polarbear.

[sabre]

your logic is seriously flawed Polarbear, and it would only work if everyone had the same upload speed.

If someone has a 100mbit upload VS my 512k upload, its going to take me ALOT longer to upload 13gb than it is 223MB. In the time i upload 13gb on 512k upload - there wont be any leechers left on the torrent so i'd get shafted in the end which is why partial seeding is better on slower connections as you can compete with faster connections

[puckface]

and the point of all this is.......?

[Polarbear]

your logic is seriously flawed Polarbear, and it would only work if everyone had the same upload speed.

If someone has a 100mbit upload VS my 512k upload, its going to take me ALOT longer to upload 13gb than it is 223MB. In the time i upload 13gb on 512k upload - there wont be any leechers left on the torrent so i'd get shafted in the end which is why partial seeding is better on slower connections as you can compete with faster connections

you don't seem to understand it and you mix up two problems that have nothing to do with each other.

of course it takes you longer to upload a certain amount of data with a slower connection. of course faster peers are prefered in the swarm.

it just doesn't matter how much of the file you have.

in your scenario you probably won't get a lot of snatches regardles wether you have 1 rar file, 10, or the whole file. if there aren't any leechers, there aren't. if other seed faster they get the peers.

i just doesn't play a role how much you have downloaded of the file. if nobody leeches the whole movie, nobody leeches your partial download as well.

in the end the ratio in relation to your downloaded amount of data will be exactly the same.

you won't upload more if you download less. no matter when, how fast, how slow or how long you seed. the number of downloaded chunks is not critical for your upload amount. you can't influence upload by reducing the number of chunks hence partial downloading.

i'm starting to repeat myself now. :pinch:


and the point of all this is.......?
go bump your trade threads.

[slimdogp]

As has been stated previous it has to do with time.

I have about 100kB/s upstream, so if I grab 1 .rar of a movie I can have that pushed back out in 5 minutes, then any buffer I make after that is just a bonus. The entire 700MB movie would take about 2 hours to get back (at full speed).

It doesn't matter how many snatchers come after me, the seeds are increasing rapidly as time passes. Chances are I'm only going to stay maxed out on upload for a few minutes, while the seeders are becoming more and more saturated.

Anyway, cool thread :) Nice to see a good argument from tim e to time. I rarely partial seed like this, sometimes I will on bitmetv if I don't have other torrents active, and feel like making 1GB or so on there one night. Usually I'll pick a popular tv night in the fall season and just grab 20MB of each .avi and leave 10 of them going overnight, and make a bit of ratio.. no big deal though.

People who do it on TL/SCC sites like that are kinda silly in my opinioin. There is HNR rules on these trackers so you're buffer really isn't of much use unless you're trying to snatch old stuff but don't have the buffer.

[renwickftw]

you don't seem to understand it and you mix up two problems that have nothing to do with each other.

of course it takes you longer to upload a certain amount of data with a slower connection. of course faster peers are prefered in the swarm.

it just doesn't matter how much of the file you have.

in your scenario you probably won't get a lot of snatches regardles wether you have 1 rar file, 10, or the whole file. if there aren't any leechers, there aren't. if other seed faster they get the peers.

i just doesn't play a role how much you have downloaded of the file. if nobody leeches the whole movie, nobody leeches your partial download as well.

in the end the ratio in relation to your downloaded amount of data will be exactly the same.

you won't upload more if you download less. no matter when, how fast, how slow or how long you seed. the number of downloads of your chunks is critical for your upload amount. you can't influence this by reducing this number the number of chunks hence partial downloading.

i'm starting to repeat myself now. :pinch:

First off, I dont think that anybody has said that if you partial seed, you will upload an amount greater than if you had the whole file. If anyone said that, then they'd be absurd. But, partial seeding does help.

However, in my past experience, I have partial seeded a single rar (50mb) from a DVDR (4.7gb) and managed to upload 1gb with my 60kb/s upload (which never got maxed anyway), many times. So that's a ratio of 20. Now according to you, I would've gotten the same ratio if I had snatched the whole file. 20 * 4.7 is 97. 97gb. For me to get 97gb on a single torrent with my connection is unreal. It will never happen, maybe in a year of seeding, if I got lucky. Whereas the 1gb that I uploaded from partial seeding took 3 days.

Partial seeding will never get you more upload than if you got the whole file. Never. However, it will raise your ratio, and is a cheap and fast way of getting a cushion.

[tknaught]

Your posts are normally pretty good Polarbear, but you are way off on this one. I can tell you from experience that partial seeding is a lot more effective than full seeding at building ratio. Your logic in the OP assumes that you don't have to compete with other seeders.

[lovejj]

part is useful when you up is not very good
i will increase your ratio
it is no problem

[Skiz]

wat if the 20 snatches are by 20 bit-tards who believe in downloading a single rar ....

EDIT :- Anyways i thght that partial seeding was when there was like a very big movie pack( <25gb) and you wanted just some movies so u just download them and seed them ...

Then that isn't a snatch. A "snatch" is a full download.

Until the torrent has been downloaded in its entirety, it has not been snatched and you are not a seeder.

You will remain a leecher until you've snatched the torrent.

[Polarbear]

Your posts are normally pretty good Polarbear, but you are way off on this one. I can tell you from experience that partial seeding is a lot more effective than full seeding at building ratio. Your logic in the OP assumes that you don't have to compete with other seeders.

please explain to me how seeding only a portion of a file gives you an advantage in the swarm when you compete with other seeders.

[puckface]

and the point of all this is.......?
go bump your trade threads.

What does that have to do with anything? Did someone get their feelings hurt that no one likes their pointless post? Poor baby. Nice use of red and green though in the OP, quite impressive.

[renwickftw]

Polarbear, if two different people, who live on the same street, have the same connection of 10kb/s upload max and have the same ISP. One of them downloads 15mb of a movie. The other one downloads the whole 700mb. They start the same torrent at the same time - 1 minute after it hits the tracker. The stop their torrent after 12 hours of seeding. Who do you think will have the better torrent ratio? Basically, the only variable in this is the amount they upload.

[Duckater]

There is at least one more point about partial seeding that does not help the community as a whole and especially for members on trackers with wait times

1. By taking one 14 mb segment and seeding it to say 280 mb you have well over seeded that piece of the torrent now say 10 people did that and only 25 actually wanted the full torrent the people that actually wanted the torrent are being hampered by people who actually dont want what they down loaded and this could actually cause them wait times
I know most will think so what I don't care it helps me build a buffer, but at some point it may be YOU that is hampered by this action.

I must admit as a whole I agree with bear there should be no need to over seed a single rar file.

Only time I think part snatches are ok is from packs where you want selected episodes, films, games etc to complete or build up that collection

[KFlint]

partial seeding can be interesting when using a poor seedbox, because your upload speed is awful until you finish downloading a file, it's then more efficient to partial seed

i remember using a leeware crap more than one year ago and it was the best way to get some buffer on sites with fast uploaders like sct and it didn't hurt anyone as far as i know

but on a quality seedbox, forget it, you take the whole thing

at home, well, i never thought about doing partial seeding but i guess it could be helpful when you start on a new tracker

anyway, what really bugs me is people who partial seed on site like blackcats

it completly screws up the seed point system, those partial seeder being identified as leechers, the seed point system then never kicks in

[Swift]

the whole thing depends if you have high speeds .. and you stay a longer time in the swarm

[SgtMajor]

Hey PB, for once I disagree, you're wrong, partial seeding can work & does help those with slower connections get some buffer on popular torrents :P

It is easy to grab 1GB of a new DVD, movie or game or xbox game, stop and then seed back 4 or 5GB, or more even before the torrent dies, thus gaining them 3 or 4GB for something they wanted later.

As long as it is within the trackers rules, so what?

Now whether it ever should be allowed is another debate for another time. For me, it should never be allowed, grab the whole torrent to 100% or grab nothing, but hey I don't make the rules, so leave alone what works for some.

[Swift]

it shouldn`t be allowed but how then again when you want to take only the sample from the movie what will happen ?

[SgtMajor]

Get off the torrent and stop seeding and let staff decide that taking the sample is an allowed HnR.

[Polarbear]

Polarbear, if two different people, who live on the same street, have the same connection of 10kb/s upload max and have the same ISP. One of them downloads 15mb of a movie. The other one downloads the whole 700mb. They start the same torrent at the same time - 1 minute after it hits the tracker. The stop their torrent after 12 hours of seeding. Who do you think will have the better torrent ratio? Basically, the only variable in this is the amount they upload.

when we assume the exact same conditions (which is of course hypothetical) both should have the same ratio (in relation to the download). the person who downloaded the whole movie will have a higher buffer though and a movie to watch.

[renwickftw]

Polarbear, if two different people, who live on the same street, have the same connection of 10kb/s upload max and have the same ISP. One of them downloads 15mb of a movie. The other one downloads the whole 700mb. They start the same torrent at the same time - 1 minute after it hits the tracker. The stop their torrent after 12 hours of seeding. Who do you think will have the better torrent ratio? Basically, the only variable in this is the amount they upload.

when we assume the exact same conditions (which is of course hypothetical) both should have the same ratio (in relation to the download) and the same buffer.

How can that be? If the partial seeder only uploads 5mb, then the other guy will have to upload 233mb. Would that be possible, such a big difference? What about on the other end of the spectrum? The first guy uploads 60mb, the other guys uploads 2.8gb. Does that sound right? Frankly, if you were to do this experiment, I have a good feeling that the partial seeder will have a better ratio than the other guy. The fact is that partial seeders help people with slow connections.

[Duckater]

It helps the partial seeder to build his ratio but on the other hand then it also makes it harder for people with slow connections whole want the whole file to seed it well

[SgtMajor]

It helps the partial seeder to build his ratio but on the other hand then it also makes it harder for people with slow connections whole want the whole file to seed it well

Which is why it shouldn't be allowed :yup:

[Duckater]

I agree with SgtMajor I also disagree with over seeding, only person that should really over seed a torrent is the uploader, another exception is if a seed box is being used to boost the torrent around a swarm when a slower speed uploader has put the torrent up :)

[jars]

Wow, I finally found a thread where Polar Bear is wrong. Rare, but still wrong. Of course partial seeding is successful. Crap speed people could start a torrent as soon as it hits ScT and by the time they'd downloaded 10mb of say the 700mb file, the file could have been snatched 40 times. And then of course by the time they'd grabbed the lot (all 700mb), it's so old it'd take 2 weeks of constantly seeding to hit a 0.75 ratio on the file. Partial seeding however is a recipe for success. My whole bitv buffer (quite large) is testimony to it. A zero day file, partial seeding 20mb can net me a gb a day. If I grab the whole 350mb file, I very, very, very, and another very, very, very, very rarely can get a full 1/1 ratio on it.

[Duckater]

So jars you are the one that is making it harder for othr people with slow connections of sct to keep there ratios on torrents

[Polarbear]

when we assume the exact same conditions (which is of course hypothetical) both should have the same ratio (in relation to the download) and the same buffer.

How can that be? If the partial seeder only uploads 5mb, then the other guy will have to upload 233mb. Would that be possible, such a big difference?

forget about the same buffer. i edited this. the ratio is the same, but the buffer for the whole downloader will be higher of course, because he downloaded more.

both offer a certain amount of chunks to the swarm. both have to download this certain amount before they can offer it. there will be a demand for these chunks in the 12 hours. one can offer 15mb, the other 700mb. since the conditions are exactly the same, both of them will end up with the same ratio. one has downloaded less, but can offer less. one has downloaded more, but can offer more.

it doesn't make a difference, that's why partial downloading doesn't improve your ratio compared to full downloading.

your eaxampe is very good by the way and hopfully makes people understand the logic.

[TP635]

I have 2 torrents running at the moment; a 9gb that is partially dl (75mb) and a 6gb that will be dl to completion. They are from different trackers of about the same speed and about the same numbers of peers.
The partially dl torrent is already finish but the other one is still downloading and will be completed in about 15 hr from now.

Let see if PB is right. If he is wrong I may get banned from this tracker for low ratio.

added: my max seed is 60/30kb

[Duckater]

The time sccale to seed to the same ratio would be different if was only torrent running as upload speed is slowed while downloading so the time scale if seeded at 100% time would take longer in proportion due to extra amount down loaded


I have 2 torrents running at the moment; a 9gb that is partially dl (75mb) and a 6gb that will be dl to completion. They are from different trackers of about the same speed and about the same numbers of peers.
The partially dl torrent is already finish but the other one is still downloading and will be completed in about 15 hr from now.

Let see if PB is right. If he is wrong I may get banned from this tracker for low ratio.


A lot of this will depend on seeder to leecher ratio as well as speeds of both sets

[jars]

I don't believe so, Duckater, I don't actually partial seed on ScT. I seed forever there and it takes an eternity for me to hit one one. While I do have a crap connection (fibre optic is arriving quite soon), ScT has free packs there's no need to partial seed there.

[renwickftw]

How can that be? If the partial seeder only uploads 5mb, then the other guy will have to upload 233mb. Would that be possible, such a big difference?

forget about the same buffer. i edited this. the ratio is the same, but the buffer for the whole downloader will be higher of course, because he downloaded more.

both offer a certain amount of chunks to the swarm. both have to download this certain amount before they can offer it. there will be a demand for these chunks in the 12 hours. one can offer 15mb, the other 700mb. since the conditions are exactly the same, both of them will end up with the same ratio. one has downloaded less, but can offer less. one has downloaded more, but can offer more.

it doesn't make a difference, that's why partial downloading doesn't improve your ratio compared to full downloading.

your eaxampe is very good by the way and hopfully makes people understand the logic.

Although I dont agree that they will be the same ratio, I understand where you are coming from. From my eyes, what you are saying is not the reality. Let's just hope that I'm wrong.

[Duckater]

Was joking jars m8 :)
Only reason I let me sct account go a few yrs back was due to slow connection and was a choice between there and few other trackers.
Still could not answer wether I let the right account go but still have me ftn, fsc etc accounts which at the time I valued more and decided means could not use it properly would be better letting it go creating another place for some one else.
I am totally against trading so no way was it going to be traded

[jars]

Was joking jars m8 :)
Only reason I let me sct account go a few yrs back was due to slow connection and was a choice between there and few other trackers.
Still could not answer wether I let the right account go but still have me ftn, fsc etc accounts which at the time I valued more and decided means could not use it properly would be better letting it go creating another place for some one else.
I am totally against trading so no way was it going to be tradedCheers mate. My sarcastic meter is way off tap when torrent talk is involved.

[Polarbear]

I have 2 torrents running at the moment; a 9gb that is partially dl (75mb) and a 6gb that will be dl to completion. They are from different trackers of about the same speed and about the same numbers of peers.
The partially dl torrent is already finish but the other one is still downloading and will be completed in about 15 hr from now.

Let see if PB is right. If he is wrong I may get banned from this tracker for low ratio.

added: my max seed is 60/30kb

you can't compare two different torrents. even if they have the same number of peers, the swarm behaviour can be totally different depending on the speed of the peers. only if the conditions are the same you would see, that you will end up with the same ratio.


since the discussion couldn't convince me otherwise let me summarize my opinion:

regardless where or when you download a torrent. your file ratio won't be different when you partial seed in comparison with a full download. stop the torrent after a certain amount of time: when you fully download you'll have the whole content, a bigger buffer and the same ratio.

[TP635]

you can't compare two different torrents. even if they have the sam number of peers, the swarm behaviour can be totally different depending on the speed of the peers.

I understand that, We will see what happen in 24 hr.

[hitman51]

Polarbear...u are dumb or something...because they tell u to partial seed on ur home connections which suck! if u do that on a seedbox there no point obviously...but ur home connection like mine if its 40 kB/s up then partial seeding is sometimes necessary...understand?

[tknaught]

Your posts are normally pretty good Polarbear, but you are way off on this one. I can tell you from experience that partial seeding is a lot more effective than full seeding at building ratio. Your logic in the OP assumes that you don't have to compete with other seeders.

please explain to me how seeding only a portion of a file gives you an advantage in the swarm when you compete with other seeders.

Imagine that you are downloading a torrent that's divided into 6 blocks - call them Blocks A,B,C,D,E,F.

The partial downloader only downloads Block A. He is competing with one seeder who has all blocks. Assume that everyone's speeds are equal. If a new leecher comes on the swarm, he will see that there are two copies of Block A and one copy of Blocks B-F. He will request Block A from the guy who is partial seeding because that is the only block he has. In the end, the partial seeder has uploaded one block and has a ratio of 1 and the full seeder has uploaded 5 blocks and has a ratio of 0.83.

Now imagine the same scenario, however there is one partial downloader and 5 seeders. Each one of them will upload one block to the new leecher, however the partial seeder will have a ratio of 1, but the full seeders will have ratios of 0.17.

Now, in addition to this, because the partial seeder technically shows up as a downloader in the swarm, other leechers will be more likely to connect to him, since downloaders make both incoming and outgoing connections, whereas seeders only make incoming connections. This gives another advantage.

Now, this strategy can fall apart if a majority of the users try to be partial seeders, because they will probably all get the same blocks and have a lot of competition.

[mrnobody]

Partial seeding CAN (not necessarily 'will') be useful for new huge pack...with enough leechers.

the idea is that, for most connection, when downloading at max speed, the upload speed is diminished.


So, say if I download 1 gb out of 100 gb pack, from a connection like mine, it will take ~30 minutes. During that 30 mins, my connection will max out and my upload will be ~ 0 kb/s. However, once I am done downloading 1 gb, my download will go down to 0 kb/s (as i am done downloading) and i will be maxing out my upload instead, given that there is enough leecher. At max speed of my connection, it will take me like 2-3 hours to get my ratio to 1:1. In other words, it will take me 2-3 hrs to upload 1 gb back.

Now, during that time period, other leechers will likely be leeching at their max speed as well, hence their upload will be pretty low. Which kinda gives a partial seeder, who has partial portion of the torrent and will be maxing out his connection with it, an opportunity to upload.

BUT, partial seeding isn't good for long though. Once leechers have the portion of file you are partially seeding, your upload speed will fade out. For first hour or two, a partial seeder maxes out his connection (given that there is enough leechers) then his upload speed for that torrent will exponentially decrease.

edit: i just read it over, not sure whether what i wrote is understandable or not :-\

[jasperr]

It's my opinion that partial seeding just sucks anyways... it only benefits a single user, but hurts the torrent itself.. i've read pretty this entire thread(started skimming when peeps started repeating).. and no mentions the fact it hurts torrents.. if you have 20 peeps partial seeding one part of a torrent how the heck is someone that might actually want that torrent to watch or play or whatever gonna get the whole thing!? it's a buddy fucking mentality, for lack of better terms... personally it drives me freking crazy when peeps partial seed.. it ends up killing the torrent sooner and frustrates other users whom otherwise would contribute to the swarm.. EI: help with everyones precious buffers... i've had no real problem with seeding from my home connection at the likes of s*t and b*tm*tv ...... if you have to manage yourself, plain and simple! to many users these days want huge buffers and big e-penises that go with it like yesterday... it's been proven that peeps with 30-40k upload can have decent ratios.. notice i said ratios, not buffers.. no one needs big buffers thats a want. it promotes poor torrenting imo..

only exception is like PB had mentioned.... if it's a pack with multiple items in it and only want one thing.... other than that the whole idea is stupid

[Duckater]

It's my opinion that partial seeding just sucks anyways... it only benefits a single user, but hurts the torrent itself.. i've read pretty this entire thread(started skimming when peeps started repeating).. and no mentions the fact it hurts torrents.. if you have 20 peeps partial seeding one part of a torrent how the heck is someone that might actually want that torrent to watch or play or whatever gonna get the whole thing!? it's a buddy fucking mentality, for lack of better terms... personally it drives me freking crazy when peeps partial seed.. it ends up killing the torrent sooner and frustrates other users whom otherwise would contribute to the swarm.. EI: help with everyones precious buffers... i've had no real problem with seeding from my home connection at the likes of s*t and b*tm*tv ...... if you have to manage yourself, plain and simple! to many users these days want huge buffers and big e-penises that go with it like yesterday... it's been proven that peeps with 30-40k upload can have decent ratios.. notice i said ratios, not buffers.. no one needs big buffers thats a want. it promotes poor torrenting imo..

only exception is like PB had mentioned.... if it's a pack with multiple items in it and only want one thing.... other than that the whole idea is stupid

Yes some one else with same thoughts rather than arguing if it helps ratios or not it aint needed and does more harm than good to the torrent and other users :)

It is in a way blatent over seeding and that aint needed either :)

[hitman51]

It's my opinion that partial seeding just sucks anyways... it only benefits a single user, but hurts the torrent itself.. i've read pretty this entire thread(started skimming when peeps started repeating).. and no mentions the fact it hurts torrents.. if you have 20 peeps partial seeding one part of a torrent how the heck is someone that might actually want that torrent to watch or play or whatever gonna get the whole thing!? it's a buddy fucking mentality, for lack of better terms... personally it drives me freking crazy when peeps partial seed.. it ends up killing the torrent sooner and frustrates other users whom otherwise would contribute to the swarm.. EI: help with everyones precious buffers... i've had no real problem with seeding from my home connection at the likes of s*t and b*tm*tv ...... if you have to manage yourself, plain and simple! to many users these days want huge buffers and big e-penises that go with it like yesterday... it's been proven that peeps with 30-40k upload can have decent ratios.. notice i said ratios, not buffers.. no one needs big buffers thats a want. it promotes poor torrenting imo..

only exception is like PB had mentioned.... if it's a pack with multiple items in it and only want one thing.... other than that the whole idea is stupid

i dunno what u are on either...i have giant buffers...and im a good member...maybe its because im an uploader :blink:

[Duckater]

I posted earlier that an uploaders buffer should not be considered in same way as a general user on sites :)

[jasperr]

i dunno what u are on either...i have giant buffers...and im a good member...maybe its because im an uploader :blink:

what you are talking about.. is an entirely different thing... this really doesn't apply to uploaders.. it's a trick used by leechers... unless you do, do this also on things you download.. which being an uploader at places, that really would put shame on yourself for overseeding/buffering ..

[sokrates]

well i am on a low speed connection as they say.. if it is a myth how come that any time i only leech a sample for a quality check i get a ratio of about 10 after a day and if i leech a whole release i am at 0,2 after a week? that alone proves you wrong pb.. if you start to think about it you might understand why it is not a myth ;)
i think that partial seeding for ratio building is just ridiculous though. if you need to do that, join another tracker :P

[predateur]

many people think partial seeding is a good way to improve your ratio. let me tell you why i think this is wrong.

let's pretend you grab one rar of a popular xvid and seed it. let's also pretend the torrent gets 20 snatches after you start to seed:

20 x 14mb = 280mb upload - 14mb = 266mb buffer, file ratio 20.0

let's now pretend you donwload the whole movie.

20 x 700mb = 14gb upload - 700mb = 13,3gb buffer, file ratio 20.0

the ratio improvement is exactly the same. it doesn't matter wether you grab only a part of the torrent or the whole thing. the key factor is the total number of snatches you get.

when you download the whole movie you can:

a.) watch it (which is the purpose of downloading movies in the first place)
b.) get a much higher buffer!

please don't tell me that you save harddisk space. if you can't afford 700mb saved to your hd, get a bigger one (they're cheap) or delete some files.

the only case where partial downloading makes sense is, if there's a pack and you only want a portion of the content.

i had seedbox and i used partial seeding because its the best fastest way to build your ratio

you have to know you are right when you say : "20 x 14mb = 280mb upload - 14mb = 266mb buffer, file ratio 20.0"

but you cant seed all the 700mb to 20 peer (its more hard and there is many seeder and leecher who seed too)
when you download small parts, you will use the full bw for uploading , so you will get max speed, but if you download at the same time you will not max your up speed
also there is the 'disk overloaded" problem, when the disk wirte all parts of 4.3gb file at the same time and high speed, it will be overloaded
but if it write just some part, you will not get the overload and you will seed at the same time
and when you finish the parts and start seeding it, you have the priority to seed,
for ex :
if you full download torrent and alredy finished parts from "1->10" but not finished the whole torrent yet and me did partial download for parts "1->10" i finish befor you wich is totaly logic (with seedbox or good speed) and i will be as a seeder on my utorrent , and i have priority to seed parts from 1->10 then you , so leechers will take from me first

well exuse english :P , but for sure partial seeding is better then full download if you want build your ratio

[Polarbear]

here's an experiment that everyone of you can do and that will prove my theory.

-find a popular tv episode from a 0-day tracker right after it's released
-partial download only one rar file
-stop your torrent after 12 hours
-take a look at the file ratio

next week

-grab the next epsisode of the show on the same tracker right after it's released
-this time download the whole thing
-stop your torrent again after 12 hours
-take a look at the file ratio

even if the conditions of these two torrents can't be exactly the same, i bet there won't be a big difference when you compare the file ratios.

try it and convince me that i'm wrong.

[twist off]

You download a full 4.3 gig DVD, and you let it seed for a 48 hour period, and for the sake of argument, lets say you upload 7 gigs (you constantly seed at 60 kbs). Now, you download only 500 mbs of that DVD, you let it seed for 48 hours, and people are constantly downloading this movie, and again you upload about 7 gigs (again, constantly seed at 60 kbs)...
Which helped your ratio more?

This is a plausible scenario, I've done it myself on trackers that allow partial seeding... Otherwise, I would never get out of that 48 hour hole.

[Polarbear]

You download a full 4.3 gig DVD, and you let it seed for a 48 hour period, and for the sake of argument, lets say you upload 7 gigs (you constantly seed at 60 kbs). Now, you download only 500 mbs of that DVD, you let it seed for 48 hours, and people are constantly downloading this movie, and again you upload about 7 gigs (again, constantly seed at 60 kbs)...
Which helped your ratio more?


that would mean that only 1.6 people downloaded the whole dvd from you, but 14 people downloaded your partial file. that's not possible when you seed with the same speed.

[predateur]

You download a full 4.3 gig DVD, and you let it seed for a 48 hour period, and for the sake of argument, lets say you upload 7 gigs (you constantly seed at 60 kbs). Now, you download only 500 mbs of that DVD, you let it seed for 48 hours, and people are constantly downloading this movie, and again you upload about 7 gigs (again, constantly seed at 60 kbs)...
Which helped your ratio more?

This is a plausible scenario, I've done it myself on trackers that allow partial seeding... Otherwise, I would never get out of that 48 hour hole.

yep total agree , see my sign lol i used partial download all the time (1.3TB from 35GB) , impossible to do if you use full download, and it will be more easy to understand if you try by your self from a 100/100mb seedbox , you will see the partial is better

[Duckater]

partial seeding from a seed box like ruins things for others it bad enough from a home line
Aint gonna say no more on that but I hope 1 day some karma kicks in :)

[Polarbear]

partial seeding from a seed box like ruins things for others it bad enough from a home line
Aint gonna say no more on that but I hope 1 day some karma kicks in :)

traders who want to buffer their accounts for the next deal usually don't think a lot about karma.

[Duckater]

So he was already not wanted in torrenting and just proved it even more :)

[twist off]

that would mean that only 1.6 people downloaded the whole dvd from you, but 14 people downloaded your partial file. that's not possible when you seed with the same speed.



But if there are 100s of people in the swarm, more people are able to get certain files from you. Very unlikely that one person will be downloading at a constant 60 kbs and all of those 60 kbs will be coming from me (unless, of course, I'm the only seeder, and they are the only leecher - in that case, no, partial seeding wouldn't be better)... However, partial seeding very popular torrents helps your global ratio tremendously.

[IdolEyes787]

It's my opinion that partial seeding just sucks anyways... it only benefits a single user, but hurts the torrent itself.. i've read pretty this entire thread(started skimming when peeps started repeating).. and no mentions the fact it hurts torrents.. if you have 20 peeps partial seeding one part of a torrent how the heck is someone that might actually want that torrent to watch or play or whatever gonna get the whole thing!? it's a buddy fucking mentality, for lack of better terms... personally it drives me freking crazy when peeps partial seed.. it ends up killing the torrent sooner and frustrates other users whom otherwise would contribute to the swarm.. EI: help with everyones precious buffers... i've had no real problem with seeding from my home connection at the likes of s*t and b*tm*tv ...... if you have to manage yourself, plain and simple! to many users these days want huge buffers and big e-penises that go with it like yesterday... it's been proven that peeps with 30-40k upload can have decent ratios.. notice i said ratios, not buffers.. no one needs big buffers thats a want. it promotes poor torrenting imo..

only exception is like PB had mentioned.... if it's a pack with multiple items in it and only want one thing.... other than that the whole idea is stupid

Yes some one else with same thoughts rather than arguing if it helps ratios or not it aint needed and does more harm than good to the torrent and other users :)

It is in a way blatent over seeding and that aint needed either :)

I was going to post something along the same lines .
That's why I'm against it.It's an extremely negative act.
Whether it builds ratio more or faster I really couldn't care less.

[SgtMajor]

Yes some one else with same thoughts rather than arguing if it helps ratios or not it aint needed and does more harm than good to the torrent and other users :)

It is in a way blatent over seeding and that aint needed either :)

I was going to post something along the same lines .
That's why I'm against it.It's an extremely negative act.
Whether it builds ratio more or faster I really couldn't care less.

We may not like it, but if it isn't against the specific trackers rules (hopefully most tracker staff will read this thread and do something about it), then there's not a lot we can do except live with it.

You can't blame users for exploiting a loop hole, no matter how sour it tastes, and they will do everything & anything to "buffer" and publicise gleefully how they went about it, but I do wish trackers would implement a take it 100% or leave it rule (excepting samples of course, and packs, and there may be others, but the general thrust stands).

[Duckater]

Well on some trackers should no need any wayas they operate a no ratio policy or it is ratio per torrent/seed time not over all ratio that is important

[dunson]

I don't know about you guys, but whenever I see the word buffer, I think of getting a nice blowjob.

[Nemrod]

I don´t do partial download nor partial seeding.
I did it long time ago and I didn´t see any benefit on it.
But I think that besides of being not so useful it´s not fair... except if you download the sample to help yourself to know if the torrent is worth it or not.

[jasperr]

I was going to post something along the same lines .
That's why I'm against it.It's an extremely negative act.
Whether it builds ratio more or faster I really couldn't care less.

We may not like it, but if it isn't against the specific trackers rules (hopefully most tracker staff will read this thread and do something about it), then there's not a lot we can do except live with it.

You can't blame users for exploiting a loop hole, no matter how sour it tastes, and they will do everything & anything to "buffer" and publicise gleefully how they went about it, but I do wish trackers would implement a take it 100% or leave it rule (excepting samples of course, and packs, and there may be others, but the general thrust stands).


:sly:

[ghurka]

The only times I have partially seeded is when I first joined a site and there were wait times, which I've always despised. For me this was the only way to build up an acceptable ratio until the wait times are cleared.

[soulreaper]

it´s not fair...

Not fair? I'll tell you what's not fair. Thousands of Indians(barring IT workers) having shitty copper lines with 384 KB/s connections being told they have optic fiber 2mb connections, that my friend is a travesty.
While thousands of users in Romania and Sweden enjoy gbit connections without shelling out a fortune and become PUs and VIPs, Do you see the disparity?

Do they(*hint hint*) deserve a 20 GB action movie pack more than I do coz they have a fuckin gbit connection and I dont? No.

Does that mean I don't like to seed? NO.

Have the tracker staff at ratio oriented sites ever thought about those users with really bad connections without prompting them to press the P2L button? Probably not. Atleast they allow them to partial seed.

As much as I hate to say it, torrenting in the hard-to-seed sites has been reduced to a cut-throat competition, most users want massive buffers without thinking about their fellow brother torrenters who might have shitty connections.

Tell you what, come over to India(or any third world country,no offense intended to anyone) and build your ratio with 30 KB/s upspeed and 40KB/s downspeed without partial seeding on a site like Bitmetv or Waffles.

PS:- Prove me wrong and I might just show you Taj Mahal.

[Ghostbusters]

Chunk seeding worked for me built up 10:1 on Bitmetv to give me a little buffer with 50 kbps upload (60gb up & 6gb down) before starting to seed properly on a 100/100

TL is another example where chunk seeding works extremely well in the beginning if you have a slow connection.

[tknaught]

We may not like it, but if it isn't against the specific trackers rules (hopefully most tracker staff will read this thread and do something about it), then there's not a lot we can do except live with it.

You can't blame users for exploiting a loop hole, no matter how sour it tastes, and they will do everything & anything to "buffer" and publicise gleefully how they went about it, but I do wish trackers would implement a take it 100% or leave it rule (excepting samples of course, and packs, and there may be others, but the general thrust stands).

The practice is actively encouraged on BMTV.

[t1m3k33p3r]

It really sucks sometimes though. I have nothing against partial seeders except the fact that if you jump on a huge pack now knowing whether there are leechers or not, you may seriously hurt your ratio.

But I don't really care about buffering anyway...it's sharing, and that's all I care about lol.

[SgtMajor]

We may not like it, but if it isn't against the specific trackers rules (hopefully most tracker staff will read this thread and do something about it), then there's not a lot we can do except live with it.

You can't blame users for exploiting a loop hole, no matter how sour it tastes, and they will do everything & anything to "buffer" and publicise gleefully how they went about it, but I do wish trackers would implement a take it 100% or leave it rule (excepting samples of course, and packs, and there may be others, but the general thrust stands).

The practice is actively encouraged on BMTV.

:sly:

Them poor newbs who sign up, then jump all over the huge torrents thinking there are plenty of leechers still leeching, then realise they have been sucked into something they can't possibly seed back, and then the only way out is to buy some GB from the P2L scheme :whistling

They couldn't possibly be doing that on purpose then.............. could they? :P

[t1m3k33p3r]

lol, exactly what I said SgtMajor. I agree. Guys, check the peer/seeders list and double check. I bet many people got killed on the what idoser crap.

[Something Else]

it´s not fair...

Not fair? I'll tell you what's not fair. Thousands of Indians(barring IT workers) having shitty copper lines with 384 KB/s connections being told they have optic fiber 2mb connections, that my friend is a travesty.
While thousands of users in Romania and Sweden enjoy gbit connections without shelling out a fortune and become PUs and VIPs, Do you see the disparity?

Do they(*hint hint*) deserve a 20 GB action movie pack more than I do coz they have a fuckin gbit connection and I dont? No.

Does that mean I don't like to seed? NO.

Have the tracker staff at ratio oriented sites ever thought about those users with really bad connections without prompting them to press the P2L button? Probably not. Atleast they allow them to partial seed.

As much as I hate to say it, torrenting in the hard-to-seed sites has been reduced to a cut-throat competition, most users want massive buffers without thinking about their fellow brother torrenters who might have shitty connections.

Tell you what, come over to India(or any third world country,no offense intended to anyone) and build your ratio with 30 KB/s upspeed and 40KB/s downspeed without partial seeding on a site like Bitmetv or Waffles.

PS:- Prove me wrong and I might just show you Taj Mahal.


Well there are some places that take that in to consideration with a ratio-less system. Perhaps such users should stick to those trackers if bandwidth/speed is a problem. :unsure:

[DoobieSnacks]

We may not like it, but if it isn't against the specific trackers rules (hopefully most tracker staff will read this thread and do something about it), then there's not a lot we can do except live with it.

You can't blame users for exploiting a loop hole, no matter how sour it tastes, and they will do everything & anything to "buffer" and publicise gleefully how they went about it, but I do wish trackers would implement a take it 100% or leave it rule (excepting samples of course, and packs, and there may be others, but the general thrust stands).

The practice is actively encouraged on BMTV.

As it should be. Any site that doesn't want partial seeding going on needs to do it like BCG. They have all their packs rar'd up into a single (pack), so you either get the whole thing, or you don't get any.
I think partial seeding is great personally, helped me out greatly when starting on SCT.

[Nemrod]

it´s not fair...

Not fair? I'll tell you what's not fair. Thousands of Indians(barring IT workers) having shitty copper lines with 384 KB/s connections being told they have optic fiber 2mb connections, that my friend is a travesty.
While thousands of users in Romania and Sweden enjoy gbit connections without shelling out a fortune and become PUs and VIPs, Do you see the disparity?

Do they(*hint hint*) deserve a 20 GB action movie pack more than I do coz they have a fuckin gbit connection and I dont? No.

Does that mean I don't like to seed? NO.

Have the tracker staff at ratio oriented sites ever thought about those users with really bad connections without prompting them to press the P2L button? Probably not. Atleast they allow them to partial seed.

As much as I hate to say it, torrenting in the hard-to-seed sites has been reduced to a cut-throat competition, most users want massive buffers without thinking about their fellow brother torrenters who might have shitty connections.

Tell you what, come over to India(or any third world country,no offense intended to anyone) and build your ratio with 30 KB/s upspeed and 40KB/s downspeed without partial seeding on a site like Bitmetv or Waffles.

PS:- Prove me wrong and I might just show you Taj Mahal.

Talk to your senator. :)

Seriously now... Are you telling me all that speech living myself in a third world country and having until few weeks ago a 4Mbits/512kbits?... and paying more than 110 $/month for it... and with capping download speeds 60% of the time and hardly upload speeds of 40 KBs?

Come on, mate, don´t tell me stories because I´m returning from the end of Storyworld.

And thanks for your offer, but I already know The Taj Mahal. ;)

[tknaught]

:sly:

Them poor newbs who sign up, then jump all over the huge torrents thinking there are plenty of leechers still leeching, then realise they have been sucked into something they can't possibly seed back, and then the only way out is to buy some GB from the P2L scheme :whistling

They couldn't possibly be doing that on purpose then.............. could they? :P

I'm not going to speculate on why, but there is a sticky'd tutorial on how to partial seed in their forums with encouraging comments from admins.

[Sanka113]

It really just depends on what your seeding, where you are seeding at, and how fast your speeds at. Honestly if you partial seed a few random rars in pack release it's prolly not going to help you out much. If you download a few episodes of that pack your seeding will be better.

[jasperr]

Well there are some places that take that in to consideration with a ratio-less system. Perhaps such users should stick to those trackers if bandwidth/speed is a problem. :unsure:

yes there is that option also... and there's ThePirateBay, mininova, demonoid, ect....

[saimer]

Very interesting post. I guess a real life experiment would be set up 2 accounts in same seedbox, grab same torrent at same time, and seed for same amount of time, and compare the results. Idealy, PB's calculation was correct. But for a slow connection new member, partial seeding would help to build initial buffer. It's a way to keep an account alive and be able to start downloading what you need. It's really pointless to over use it as it won't benefit anyone.

[Eargasm]

Partial seeding DOES work if you've got a slower connection than your peers and you get on a hot torrent while it's still fresh.

If you are seeding 100% of a file, people will download at least one chunk from you and one chunk from someone else - then the second chunk they download will be from the faster seeder(s), while you will move down in priority(assuming you have a slow connection), and so on. The problem is that they will not be downloading more than 1 or two chunks from you before they decide that you are too slow.

So if you only downloaded 1 or 2 chunks to begin with, then you are guaranteed to have a 1:1 ratio after uploading that to one person. Who cares if they don't download the second chunk, you already have a 1:1 ratio.

I've got firsthand experience that partial seeding works - after it being suggested by a mod on BitMeTV, TequilaVIP, nice guy too. Several time I've had a ratio > 20:1 within a day using partial seeding. I've never been able to recreate that when downloading an entire torrent - mostly because there are so many seedboxes there.

That said, here is how to do partial seeding in utorrent:
1. start the download (wait until about 10mb are downloaded)
2. go to the files tab
3. highlight the files
4. right click and choose don't download

It will finish downloading the chunk that it's working on and then seed all downloaded chunks. This usually only works on new and hot torrents so get on it early.

[soulreaper]

living myself in a third world country and having until few weeks ago a 4Mbits/512kbits?... and paying more than 110 $/month for it...

4mbits/512kbits?!!?? What third world country has 4mbit?:lol:
90% indian home connections are 256KB/s,some may have 512KB/s. Maybe I should switch bases,time to get that visa!

If I had to pay more than 110$/month(Rs 4620/month) for an internet connection,I'd be on the streets begging for food and shelter.



Well there are some places that take that in to consideration with a ratio-less system. Perhaps such users should stick to those trackers if bandwidth/speed is a problem. :unsure:

Yah well too bad ratio-free sites like Ftn and iTS never have open signups aye? :lol:
Maybe you could give me a head start Benchez?

[Swift]

At least i don`t need to get a box to seed back my torrents :D

the rest doesn`t matter

[aysomc]

its not a myth at all and it works great for ppl with slower speeds. if you only choose a couple rars then you have those complete rars whereas others will just have a couple pieces of them along with every other rar as they're downloading so a lot more peers will be forced to go to you to dl the information that most people dont have yet when the torrent is first starting. basically you want to connect to the original seeder and get those full rars before anyone else and a lot of people will connect to you and you'll max out your speed until the majority of people are done downloading the whole thing. if you have a seedbox or really good speeds it wont matter much if any at all and downloading the whole thing is actually smarter in that case but with really slow speeds partial downloading is the way to go.

[Duckater]

its not a myth at all and it works great for ppl with slower speeds. if you only choose a couple rars then you have those complete rars whereas others will just have a couple pieces of them along with every other rar as they're downloading so a lot more peers will be forced to go to you to dl the information that most people dont have yet when the torrent is first starting. basically you want to connect to the original seeder and get those full rars before anyone else and a lot of people will connect to you and you'll max out your speed until the majority of people are done downloading the whole thing. if you have a seedbox or really good speeds it wont matter much if any at all and downloading the whole thing is actually smarter in that case but with really slow speeds partial downloading is the way to go.

Yes this may be true but what happens then when you want a whole film and a few people are part seeding, you will be either unable to seed it back fully or will take a lot longer to seed back the whole thing.
So in reality it works but it hinders other people trying to keep there ratio and on another torrent that person may well be YOU.
Do the maths people on any torrent not every one can seed to a ratio or 1 any way as the uploader will seed to a good ratio probable a min of 4 if several snatches so that is already 4 people that will not be able to get a ratio of 1 on that torrent then part seeders and over seeders make it even worse.

[The Flying Cow]

Partial seeding is not a myth Mister Bear, what it is is a facking pain in the erse. That it is.

Did I mention you also DON'T get to watch/read/play whatever it is you "dl"?

It's the most tedious piece of crap there is. I'd rather ask a friend to share his box with me.

-Sherman

[jars]

its not a myth at all and it works great for ppl with slower speeds. if you only choose a couple rars then you have those complete rars whereas others will just have a couple pieces of them along with every other rar as they're downloading so a lot more peers will be forced to go to you to dl the information that most people dont have yet when the torrent is first starting. basically you want to connect to the original seeder and get those full rars before anyone else and a lot of people will connect to you and you'll max out your speed until the majority of people are done downloading the whole thing. if you have a seedbox or really good speeds it wont matter much if any at all and downloading the whole thing is actually smarter in that case but with really slow speeds partial downloading is the way to go.

Yes this may be true but what happens then when you want a whole film and a few people are part seeding, you will be either unable to seed it back fully or will take a lot longer to seed back the whole thing.
So in reality it works but it hinders other people trying to keep there ratio and on another torrent that person may well be YOU.
Do the maths people on any torrent not every one can seed to a ratio or 1 any way as the uploader will seed to a good ratio probable a min of 4 if several snatches so that is already 4 people that will not be able to get a ratio of 1 on that torrent then part seeders and over seeders make it even worse.Partial seeders show up as leechers, not seeder so there's no problem to your "Yes this may be true but what happens then when you want a whole film and a few people are part seeding, you will be either unable to seed it back fully or will take a lot longer to seed back the whole thing." The whole point of partial seeding in because your int speed is crap that you wouldn't be able to seed 1 to 1 anyway. People partial seed on shit they don't want, not shit they want.

[IdolEyes787]

Kind of defeats the whole purpose of file sharing though doesn't it?

[bblogs]

This discussion isn't about the ethics of partial seeding, it's about the effectiveness of it. There are that many seedbox overseeders around here to make the ethics of partial seeding irrelevant.

[The Flying Cow]

This discussion isn't about the ethics of partial seeding, it's about the effectiveness of it. There are that many seedbox overseeders around here to make the ethics of partial seeding irrelevant.

Thus spake Zarathustra

-Sherman

[IdolEyes787]

Sticks.
Ethics are never irrelevant.

[Duckater]

The problem is every body is chasing the impossible :)
It is not possible and never has been possible for every one to achieve a ratio of 1 on every single torrent.
People try many things to keep a ratio as hi as they can, never understood that really.
I am to keep a ratio of around 1.2 on sites I have not uploaded too which I think is about right for most sites :)

[jars]

Kind of defeats the whole purpose of file sharing though doesn't it?How so? There's a file, albeit a 'bit' and your sharing. Kinda is the purpose there, Champ.

[Ramus]

partial seeding is great especially if you do not wanna dl a very big release but want to seed it eg. like a game.

it has always worked well for me. so i say it is definitely not a myth.

[IdolEyes787]

Kind of defeats the whole purpose of file sharing though doesn't it?How so? There's a file, albeit a 'bit' and your sharing. Kinda is the purpose there, Champ.

You didn't change my opinion by your juvenile post jars.
All you accomplished is you managed to have me take an instant dislike to you.

[The Flying Cow]

How so? He just called you a champion, albeit a 'bit' :01:

-Sherman

[jars]

How so? There's a file, albeit a 'bit' and your sharing. Kinda is the purpose there, Champ.

You didn't change my opinion by your juvenile post jars.
All you accomplished is you managed to have me take an instant dislike to you.Bwaahahahaha, 1500 plus posts on an internet forum predominantly used by cyber teens and suddenly you're offended by a post with a hint of satire. Grow a thicker skin and toughen up, Champ.

[IdolEyes787]

I"m not offended I just dislike you.

It think it has something to do with your propensity to insult strangers.:idunno:

[puckface]

I"m not offended I just dislike you.

It think it has something to do with your propensity to insult strangers.:idunno:

honesty rules!

[sokrates]

so lets conclude.. its not a myth.. polarbear was wrong.. but it still sucks for some guys^^
if you want to discuss why it sucks, you can start a new topic ;)

[djkamikaze]

partial seeding is GREAT at music sites. On my old comcrap connection with 35kBps upload, I managed to build a 100+gb buffer @ oinks by looking for any new uploads that had several people downloading within the first 30 minutes that torrent was up... download one track of that cd, seed it for a few days, and ratio would usually be around 40-50, with several hundred mB of UL for about 5-10 mB of DL.

[todayisagift]

ok i read posts and i need some help, now at SCC i am doing partial seeding and i think it will be problem for me because the section which iam doing partial.S is Archive and now at archive section FL and 2X upload were given ; i choosed movies/packs in that section and then i choosed torrent which have most leecher. Then i downloaded very small parts of torrent and started to partial seed , this was some times ago and since the day seeding started i uploaded 1.8 GB but i recognized that i am in the leecher list. And now i am thinking that this will be problem for me because my uploads releated that torrent is increasing day by day and i am still in leecher list and i will be always in the leecher list because of partial seeding. First problem is this ''does staff may think that i am Cheater, because i am in the leecher list
but my uploads increasing?? And second problem is about rule at SCC which is '' HIT AND RUNNERS WILL BE DISABLED FROM NOW ON,WITHOUT WARNING ''. This may be
problem for me because that torrent which i am doing partial seeding is very big so i never want to download it completely and if i will never download it completely so i will never be in the seeder list. After sometimes i must stop torrent because of no upload anymore. So when i will stop that torrent ,will staff think that i am doing ''HİT AND RUN'' ?? because my name never seen in the seeder list, i am afraid about it, i dont want loose my acc, please someone say me good idea about this situation.

thanks in advance

[dunson]

You are neither hit and running, nor in danger of being thought a cheater. Don't worry.

[Duckater]

The staff will be able to see how much you have downloaded and seeded on any single torrent, so please don't worry as from the figures you have given you will not be flagged on any list for hit and running in any script they run :)

[todayisagift]

I really appreciated, dunson and Duckater thanks a lot for answers