...and your heroes

[BawA]

Cold blooded Hero's, be proud of them :yup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hdm89WxkGs

[Skiz]

What was "cold blooded"?

It didn't even look like they shot him as there's no reaction from the guy after the shot. Then the video cuts away, so as to give that impression that they did.

Then we see the guy sitting up.

Try again, troll.

[torrentt]

i thought these poor Arabs don't have money for food, at least they have a video camera "contingently". And what exactly happened there? u don't know, so u can't judge.
anyway, if u wanna see the damage that was made to him:
http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/02012008/1554790/20-07-08_1524_hh.jpg (http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/02012008/1554790/20-07-08_1524_hh.jpg)
not worse then after playing football

[BawA]

What was "cold blooded"?

It didn't even look like they shot him as there's no reaction from the guy after the shot. Then the video cuts away, so as to give that impression that they did.

Then we see the guy sitting up.

Try again, troll.

so typical of you!!
watch clearly, his right leg, you can see the bullet/blood mark.

i wonder if fox news shows this at all.

[BawA]

not worse then after playing football
by that i assume you've been shot before in your leg and it only felt like knocking you down in football.

camera what camera, its clearly a mobile cam with that poor quality, you can get one for 20$.

[Skiz]

His right leg is clearly seen when he is lying on the ground and no blood is visible to me.

I don't however believe that the Israeli Army is incapable of fuckups or mistreatment, nor are the soldiers of my own country. No one said anything of sort.

I just don't believe the happenings of what occurred in the video is being accurately portrayed.

[torrentt]

not worse then after playing footballby that i assume you've been shot before in your leg and it only felt like knocking you down in football.

camera what camera, its clearly a mobile cam with that poor quality, you can get one for 20$.

yes its quality is like every other movie on youtube with a camera who uses zoom

now for all the worried arabs here like you, the soldier is in prison. in the investigation it was found that the soldiers misunderstood his commander's order, who told him to frighten him again, u don't know all that happened there, but by the fact that a video camera was involved, u can clearly understand that there was a provocation).

ps. it was a rubber bullet

[torrentt]

i wonder if fox news shows this at all.
well, since yesterday, and as we speak now, it is, for a reason i don't comprehend, the top story in the front page in the most watched Israeli news site.

[Skiz]

so typical of you!!
watch clearly, his right leg, you can see the bullet/blood mark.

i wonder if fox news shows this at all.

Typical? I rarely even post in this section and to my knowledge have never posted any any substantial comment (if any at all) whatsoever with regard to Israeli/Palestinian affairs. And certainly not enough where any remark could be noted as "typical".

I'll also have you note that there was no bullet and no (visible) blood, though you obviously feel you could "clearly" see it. He was shot with a rubber bullet and is doing just fine. The soldiers in question have also been reprimanded. I can see now that you're just making this shit up as you go.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/21/content_8706416.htm

Also, why would any American news network show it? It's hardly relative to our interests when someone across the world is shot with a rubber pellet.

[BawA]

so typical of you!!
watch clearly, his right leg, you can see the bullet/blood mark.

i wonder if fox news shows this at all.

Typical? I rarely even post in this section and to my knowledge have never posted any any substantial comment (if any at all) whatsoever with regard to Israeli/Palestinian affairs. And certainly not enough where any remark could be noted as "typical".

I'll also have you note that there was no bullet and no (visible) blood, though you obviously feel you could "clearly" see it. He was shot with a rubber bullet and is doing just fine. The soldiers in question have also been reprimanded. I can see now that you're just making this shit up as you go.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/21/content_8706416.htm

Also, why would any American news network show it? It's hardly relative to our interests when someone across the world is shot with a rubber pellet.

but its clearly in your interest when a harmless aqsa bomb drop on a empty land waking up some settlers. but a guy got shot because soldier "misunderstood" order is nothing of your concern.


Typical? I rarely even post in this section
this 2nd time with same type of answer in regard to what i have asked in past 2 threads. not typical :huh:



now for all the worried arabs here like you, the soldier is in prison. in the investigation it was found that the soldiers misunderstood his commander's order, who told him to frighten him again, u don't know all that happened there, but by the fact that a video camera was involved, u can clearly understand that there was a provocation).
how old you are to believe that kinda of bullshit. frighten him... ok ill shoot him.

the reason why there was a camera, if you watch video with open mind you can see in beginning that there was a group protesting, when one taken you dont expect the remaining run away, it happen that somebody got a peak at what went over there. not so weird when in other part of world a scandal is caught on mobile, huh?

[IdolEyes787]

yes its quality is like every other movie on youtube with a camera who uses zoom

now for all the worried arabs here like you, the soldier is in prison. in the investigation it was found that the soldiers misunderstood his commander's order, who told him to frighten him again, u don't know all that happened there, but by the fact that a video camera was involved, u can clearly understand that there was a provocation).

ps. it was a rubber bullet

Israeli forces use rubber encased steel bullet for crowd control(not an unusual practice btw) but their minimum safe firing range is 40 meters.
Closer than that and they can pierce skin and break bone.
Even at a safe distance head shots(you are only suppose to shoot at legs) have been known to be fatal.
Just wanted to post this out of fairness.Rubber bullets aren't toys.

[BawA]

yes its quality is like every other movie on youtube with a camera who uses zoom

now for all the worried arabs here like you, the soldier is in prison. in the investigation it was found that the soldiers misunderstood his commander's order, who told him to frighten him again, u don't know all that happened there, but by the fact that a video camera was involved, u can clearly understand that there was a provocation).

ps. it was a rubber bullet

Israeli forces use rubber encased steel bullet for crowd control(not an unusual practice btw) but their minimum safe firing range is 40 meters.
Closer than that and they can pierce skin and break bone.
Even at a safe distance head shots(you are only suppose to shoot at legs) have been known to be fatal.
Just wanted to post this out of fairness.Rubber bullets aren't toys.

they are for skizo and the other guy(who ever he is), and its only like getting tackled in football :dry:
maybe he thinks its one of those rubbers bullets which i used to play with it to hunt birds which rarely got dropped anything.

[Skiz]

this 2nd time with same type of answer in regard to what i have asked in past 2 threads.

Oh c'mon... Again, lies. :dabs:

I never answered any question of yours with any comment even close to that.

I'm done with you. I'm not even going to continue responding to your blatant fallacies. You've obviously got an agenda, so please, carry on with your blather; just note that no one is buying it.

[Skiz]

Israeli forces use rubber encased steel bullet for crowd control(not an unusual practice btw) but their minimum safe firing range is 40 meters.
Closer than that and they can pierce skin and break bone.
Even at a safe distance head shots(you are only suppose to shoot at legs) have been known to be fatal.
Just wanted to post this out of fairness.Rubber bullets aren't toys.

I couldn't agree more.

[torrentt]

BawA, you are making a fool of yourself by comparing the 2 threads, this one to the one with samir kuntar which is your hero. Kuntar shot a man at close range in the back, in front of his daughter, and drowned him in the sea to ensure he was dead. Next, he smashed the head of 4 year-old Einat on beach rocks and crushed her skull with the butt of his rifle. its not even close to shooting a rubber bullet at someone's toe.
if you are trying to say that Israel is worse then the arab world so you live in a weird bubble and i feel sorry for you.

[BawA]

its not like i love your replies, its obvious you dont have guts to stick to the argument, get lost!!

[torrentt]

well the difference is this:
If an Israeli soldier shoots a toe - he goes to prison.
If an Arab man kill 4 years old child and her father - he becomes an international hero in the arab world.

[BawA]

well the difference is this:
If an Israeli soldier shoots a toe - he goes to prison.
If an Arab man kill 4 years old child and her father - he becomes an international hero in the arab world.

says who? this is a one in hundred shot, all those crimes happening only few of them gets coverage which un-willingly some action is taken about it.
before the upraising such thing was a matter of Israeli pride, only after wards media came into mainstreaming these crimes and jew state started to lose some advantage of being the hated nation in middle east therefore some secrecy was applied to riot controls.

[torrentt]

well the difference is this:
If an Israeli soldier shoots a toe - he goes to prison.
If an Arab man kill 4 years old child and her father - he becomes an international hero in the arab world.says who? this is a one in hundred shot, all those crimes happening only few of them gets coverage which un-willingly some action is taken about it.
before the upraising such thing was a matter of Israeli pride, only after wards media came into mainstreaming these crimes and jew state started to lose some advantage of being the hated nation in middle east therefore some secrecy was applied to riot controls.

ok tell us what is the problem you are trying to define and what is your solution to it?
i just don't see what is your point as a biased person.

[ilw]

video has been taken off you tube, but can be seen here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/21/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast)

Skizo - the soldier has admitted the shooting so its not a fake

torrentt - re the video camera vs food thing - you're an ignorant cunt

general - as suggested rubber bullets at point blank are gonna hurt like fuck

skizo & torrentt - i wasn't aware they'd been reprimanded or sent to prison, all i've seen is that its being investigated and the soldier in question & his commander have talked to military police. From what i saw the soldier is blaming his commander for ordering him to fire, the commander is saying that he just told the soldier to scare the prisoner by shaking his gun (though how you scare a blindfolded person by shaking a gun escapes me). Anyway the upshot is that as usual the chances of anyone facing any serious disciplinary action are somewhere between none and fuck all.



well the difference is this:
If an Israeli soldier shoots a toe - he goes to prison.
If an Arab man kill 4 years old child and her father - he becomes an international hero in the arab world.
Just 2 minor quibbles, firstly as i said I'm betting the israeli soldier won't go to prison, secondly the arab child who killed another child and her father - has been in prison for 30 years. He's no hero, he was a crazy arsehole as a child, but 30 years on who knows what he's like... I don't necessarily think he should be released it all depends on whether he's likely to kill again.

[torrentt]

ilw, facts tells that each time that Israel released Arabs from prison in such deals, some of those Arabs came back and killed Israelis.
kuntar is now a part of hizbullah as far as can be seen by the reception he got and we all know what hizbullahs primary goal.
for the video camera vs food thing, we see many of these things that poor arabs are "victoms" of bad Israelis, don't you wonder if it is a provocation or why don't u see opposite incidents photographed by these Arabs? why u see only a small scene of that occasion? instead of making the hatred grow more and more, why don't they establish a country in their territory and prove the world they can do it?

[Skiz]

Skizo - the soldier has admitted the shooting so its not a fake

I never said or even insinuated that the video was fake. It's obviously a video taped event. :huh:

What I did state was that I just didn't believe the happenings of what occurred in the video was being accurately portrayed.

[BawA]

we see many of these things that poor arabs are "victoms" of bad Israelis, don't you wonder if it is a provocation or why don't u see opposite incidents photographed by these Arabs?
who said they are poor, damp fuck, its Israel closing the bypasses and foods dont get to gaza people, camera is one timer, you got it once and you can use for as long as it lasts, food is something which runs out. food is not the only thing.
beside war is not always won with guns and muscles, some time using your mind(aka exposing the enemy) works just like any other tactics, something similar to major news channels in USA propagandizing for US in last Iraq war.
i wonder what you would say next... "i thought Arabs didnt had car" well they do, and they do in Gaza as well but its Israel stopping fuel supply to Gaza as well.

[IdolEyes787]

I just saw a story on the news where a Western journalist was allowed to interview someone who attempted a suicide bombing in Afghanistan.
The writer was expecting some hardened Taliban fanatic.He was shocked to find a frightened 14 year old boy.
The pathetic child didn't even know what suicide meant.He was simply told if he carried out his task he would be allowed to see his mother again.
He was totally unaware of the consequences to what he was doing.
I know Afghanistan isn't Gaza but would this fall under the heading of other tactics or using your mind?

[BawA]

Skizo - the soldier has admitted the shooting so its not a fake

I never said or even insinuated that the video was fake. It's obviously a video taped event. :huh:

What I did state was that I just didn't believe the happenings of what occurred in the video was being accurately portrayed.

how would you loved that to be portrayed? "A soldier accidentally shot a blindfolded guy when he was trying to fly away a mosquito from him, when questioned soldier said his commanding officer was concerned of wounded guy's health and ordered him to shot away the bug; mosquito was quite large " :shutup:
BawA, you are making a fool of yourself by comparing the 2 threads, this one to the one with samir kuntar which is your hero. Kuntar shot a man at close range in the back, in front of his daughter, and drowned him in the sea to ensure he was dead. Next, he smashed the head of 4 year-old Einat on beach rocks and crushed her skull with the butt of his rifle. its not even close to shooting a rubber bullet at someone's toe.
if you are trying to say that Israel is worse then the arab world so you live in a weird bubble and i feel sorry for you.
how did i miss that...
point in making this thread is not to compare the circumstances which led into what happened but to understand the events.
and FYKI Arab world is not only Lebanon and Palestine which jew state has problem with, you wont find rats about violence in gulf countries except iraq which again America has presence there , infect jew state is so keen to start relation with GCC and am not talking out of my ass(like you) its documented news where shimon Perez was pushing himself between arab politicians specially Qatar's prince. and again for your info you dont know how high is standard in some GCC countries you wont see such in California leave alone so called "Haifa", British people would murder to get here in Dubai(300k living here).

[torrentt]

Bawa, i read and i read what you write here, and i see u'r an idiot
last time we opened the bypasses, the poor arabs killed the 2 drivers who went to give the poor arabs supply
and who used muscles? the poor arabs clearly say they will kidnap more and more israelis so they can trade them for the other poor arabs who are involved in killing israelis. hamas kill fatah ppl and throw them out of tall buildings - force is the only way of life for the poor arabs.
i know poor arabs do have cars, and i know where are all the fuel come from too, do u know where is it from?
and for the protocol by saing poor arabs i'm talking about the palestenians and i'm being cynical

[tralalala]

well the difference is this:
If an Israeli soldier shoots a toe - he goes to prison.
If an Arab man kill 4 years old child and her father - he becomes an international hero in the arab world.

says who? this is a one in hundred shot, all those crimes happening only few of them gets coverage which un-willingly some action is taken about it.
before the upraising such thing was a matter of Israeli pride, only after wards media came into mainstreaming these crimes and jew state started to lose some advantage of being the hated nation in middle east therefore some secrecy was applied to riot controls.

Excuse me, you know this how? :huh: You've never served in the IDF and you never will, so you'll never kow. So don't state facts that aren't accurate.

My friend is a cameraman in the IDF, and he actually videotaped an event which showed why and how the IDF soldeirs are always shown as the bad guys, though in reality it's far from the truth.


I cannot elaborate on this videotape as it's classified (in actual fact, not even I was meant to see it).

[j2k4]

Seems the point needs to be reiterated every so often that good info is hard to find.

These arguments always follow incidents the documentation of which is necessarily suspect.

Bottom line is we each end up making the arguments we are disposed to make, whatever the evidence.

Ironic that the argument over whose documentation of these events is (more) legitimate is easily as bilious as the Arab/Israeli debate itself.

[lynx]

Seems to me that the issue of who's interpretation is more credible is distracting from the proper issue.

Even if we accept the most innocuous explanation, that the officer wanted the soldier to scare the Palestinian and the soldier misunderstood, we should be asking 2 questions.
Why did the officer want to scare the Palestinian, as far as I'm aware there are no reports that he was doing anything wrong?
Why would the soldier think that scaring someone would involve shooting that person in the foot?

To my mind, these two questions raise considerable doubts about the supposed integrity of the IDF. If their officers can't act properly, and their soldiers don't understand that shooting people for the heck of it is wrong, then the whole setup stinks and those supporting its actions need to have a serious re-evaluation of their own standards.

[BawA]

says who? this is a one in hundred shot, all those crimes happening only few of them gets coverage which un-willingly some action is taken about it.
before the upraising such thing was a matter of Israeli pride, only after wards media came into mainstreaming these crimes and jew state started to lose some advantage of being the hated nation in middle east therefore some secrecy was applied to riot controls.

Excuse me, you know this how? :huh: You've never served in the IDF and you never will, so you'll never kow. So don't state facts that aren't accurate.

My friend is a cameraman in the IDF, and he actually videotaped an event which showed why and how the IDF soldeirs are always shown as the bad guys, though in reality it's far from the truth.


I cannot elaborate on this videotape as it's classified (in actual fact, not even I was meant to see it).

could that be Zohan movie :pinch:

in recent news the officer has admitted the guilt of Ordering to shoot the helpless protester.
i wonder what you will come up in defense.
its started to look in here like war crime trails, hopeless arguments .

[ilw]

could be interesting, i wonder what will happen to the soldier that fired. Surely a defence of 'only following orders' won't fly in Israel of all places?

[torrentt]

i don't know what will happen to the soldier who fired, or to his commander, but i do know this, such an investigation will never occur on the other side, on the contrary, they will be idols over there.

[Skiz]

"...the army on Tuesday suspended a commander for 10 days after he failed a lie-detection test over the shooting of a blindfolded and handcuffed Palestinian with a rubber-coated bullet."

[torrentt]

"...the army on Tuesday suspended a commander for 10 days after he failed a lie-detection test over the shooting of a blindfolded and handcuffed Palestinian with a rubber-coated bullet."

by that sentence ppl may think that the Palestinian is badly wounded, its misleading - this incident does not deserve to be in the top news for such a long time, in the Israeli main news site its until now on the main page with updates, ffs

[lynx]

"...the army on Tuesday suspended a commander for 10 days after he failed a lie-detection test over the shooting of a blindfolded and handcuffed Palestinian with a rubber-coated bullet."

by that sentence ppl may think that the Palestinian is badly wounded, its misleading - this incident does not deserve to be in the top news for such a long time, in the Israeli main news site its until now on the main page with updates, ffsYou still haven't got it, have you?

It isn't the severity of the incident nor the extent of the man's injuries that are the important factors here, it's the underlying ethos that allows members of the IDF to even consider these sort of actions. Those involved should have been immediately arrested subject to an inquiry. The fact that they weren't is indicative that the people in charge of the IDF have little or no interest in preventing a recurrence.

The argument that the other side does worse holds no water, they simply say that they respond to the IDF's actions. Neither are correct responses.

[torrentt]

and you haven't got it that if you look on almost all the rest of the armies in the world, you will see X10-X20 more terrible things, that don't even get near the attention that this new is getting.
there is no army in the world without flaws

[ilw]

"...the army on Tuesday suspended a commander for 10 days after he failed a lie-detection test over the shooting of a blindfolded and handcuffed Palestinian with a rubber-coated bullet."

by that sentence ppl may think that the Palestinian is badly wounded, its misleading - this incident does not deserve to be in the top news for such a long time, in the Israeli main news site its until now on the main page with updates, ffs
can you please at least condemn the shooting of an unarmed, blindfolded and incapacitated person, as it would be comforting to know that you have a shred of humanity left in you.

[lynx]

and you haven't got it that if you look on almost all the rest of the armies in the world, you will see X10-X20 more terrible things, that don't even get near the attention that this new is getting.
there is no army in the world without flawsThis sounds like the beginning of another "others do it, so why shouldn't we" excuse.

I doubt that other armies behave anything like as badly as you claim, but if you can produce some evidence I'm willing to examine it. Certainly, most armies treat these sort of actions very seriously when those in charge learn of them. I would equally condemn any that don't, but they aren't the issue here.

Trying to defend the indefensible is bound to fail.

[BawA]

and you haven't got it that if you look on almost all the rest of the armies in the world, you will see X10-X20 more terrible things, that don't even get near the attention that this new is getting.
so if some go roof jumping you must go as well ?:dry:

the simple fact is most of war crimes go un-noticed because the secrecy but those which are uncovered are subject to debate which leads to other screw up's.
saying that other crimes dont get as much attention as what happens on your side is lame excuse, specially when western worlds are mostly on Israel's side.


there is no army in the world without flaws
yeh your great Allie for example.

[tralalala]

This sounds like the beginning of another "others do it, so why shouldn't we" excuse.



Funny this, it seems that you "want" Israel to be an example for all armies in the world.. As if the Israeli army is always under the watching eye, and no other army is..
Just a side-thought.


Anyway, back on to the matter in discussion...

I didn't really want to go ahead and write this, but seeing as none of you really know what serving in the IDF is like, I guess I'll have to do it anyway.

Serving in the IDF is probably one of the most difficult jobs in the modern world.. Not only do you have to defend yourself and your country with an iron fist, but you also have to try and do it in the most humane way, when in front of you come plenty of arrogant people who don't understand this fact, and try to mingle with the soldiers who barely get enough sleep and who are under constant threat of being shot in the head by the odd Palestinian sniper here and there.

So, basically, soldiers in the IDF are subject to one of 2 things - First, they have to be humane, do stuff according to the "game rules" and co., or suffer punishment by the IDF court of justice. Second, they must serve their country and defend it, while getting plenty of negative feedback from around the world. Therefor, there's a lose-lose situation for every soldier in our arm here, because on the one hand they are being hassled by Palestinians who simply won't realise the situation and carry on fucking around and then are surprised they get shot, and on the other hand they are always being criticised.. Whether by the IDF for not doing their job well, or by the rest of the world for doing it too good.


Once again, just a side-thought..

[BawA]

Serving in the IDF is probably one of the most difficult jobs in the modern world.. Not only do you have to defend yourself and your country with an iron fist, but you also have to try and do it in the most humane way, when in front of you come plenty of arrogant people who don't understand this fact, and try to mingle with the soldiers who barely get enough sleep and who are under constant threat of being shot in the head by the odd Palestinian sniper here and there.
i cant hold it :sick:
its just like briefing where a guy talks about why people should join army.
not getting enough sleep... isn't that in all armies?(live on minimal), constant threat? again same as all army AKA their job, you dont expect them to sleep off their ass's all the day eating Palestinian hamos, do you?
and everybody know how human are they, more like savages.


So, basically, soldiers in the IDF are subject to one of 2 things - First, they have to be humane, do stuff according to the "game rules" and co., or suffer punishment by the IDF court of justice.
yeh be humane by shooting helpless people and only get suspended for doing that.
if you think what ever your so called IDF does is something to be proud of then realize why other side is so proud of their hero's. the only thing is west recognizes jew state but HAMAS/FATAH and other militants who are trying to keep safe their nation and fight for them are not.

[tralalala]

I cant hold it - :lol:

It's becoming silly.. Obviously I can't change your mind, nor can you change mine, but let's keep it simple - You obviously think that any tiny thing an Israeli soldier does is wrong, since we don't deserve a state in the first place, yet any massive explosion a Palestinian militant/suicide-bomber does is perfectly alright since they are only protecting their nation.


Does anyone else get how ridiculous this sounds? :eyebrows:


You seem to think every single soldier in our army is out there to kill Arabs just for being Arabs.. Well, no, we're not Nazi's, that's not what I and my friends will join the army to do. We will join the army to protect our state, our ONLY state, from being bombarded and screwed by the likes of Hamas/Fatah/Hizbollah militants - If it takes force, we shall use it. It's as simple as that.


Either play the game the way it is, or don't play it at all and don't complain.

[The Flying Cow]

Well do you deserve a state?

Are you trying to say the Israelis don't interfere with the Arabs in Jerusalem and wherever else they share "borders"?

I'm not going to enter this discussion, but like j2l said, this is a double-sided 'heads' coin.

Neither side is innocent and 'humane', like you put in your IDF propaganda crap.


-Sherman

[BawA]

rafi boy, you know me better than this, i was never for killing innocent but i certainly believe in 'an eye for eye'. and dont say your against that cuz when that bulldozer hit Jerusalem your government issued order to demolish attackers home and refuge his family.
i never liked hamas, he keeps screwing around with peace negotiations but it wasn't them shooting the 1st bullet after each peace deals, infect most of the times Israel didnt gave peace deals any chance to live a lil bit longer.

you say your not Nazis, well see what your doing with Gaza, if its not a road to consideration camp then i dont know what it is.
Nazis before transferring jews into the consideration camp separated them from polish people by sending them to Warsaw and stopped supplies from them, doesn't that ring a bell in you head mr 'we are not Nazis' .

[tralalala]

No it doesn't ring a bell for the simple reason that the Palestinians don't want anything to do with us. The Jews in Poland were a serious part of their culture and co. The Palestinians want nothing to do with us, they bombard us, and attack us, so why should Israel give Gaza, which someday will become a state, OUR drinking water, OUR fuel, OUR food? In fact, why should we even let Palestinian workers into Israel to work, if they dislike us? What reason apart from cheap labour could we have for letting them in here to work?

And by the way, it's concentration camp, not consideration camp :)


And I'm not going to get into the "1st bullet" discussion, it's like arguing whether the chicken or the egg came first..

[Sextent]

Consideration Camps sound quite lovely.

I'm afraid I cant take any argument seriously when the person putting it forward constantly uses the phrase "jew state".

Seriously old bean, it just makes you sound like a bigot and turns people off.

[The Flying Cow]

^He is a wee bit of a racialist. That's putting it mildly, as well.

But I dislike the other side's cunts, too.

[lynx]

OUR drinking water, OUR fuel, OUR food?I think that to some extent you've just highlighted part of the problem, and it was nice of you to capitalise it.

The fact is that it used to be THEIR drinking water, THEIR fuel, THEIR food.
Although you may have considerably enhanced them (and at the same time increased the strains on the very same resources) what right do you think you have to refuse access to them?

[BawA]

Consideration Camps sound quite lovely.

I'm afraid I cant take any argument seriously when the person putting it forward constantly uses the phrase "jew state".

Seriously old bean, it just makes you sound like a bigot and turns people off.

am not against jews pal i just dont recognize "Israel". this state was based on force and occupation.

ohh and rafi non of those resources you mentioned is yours and will never be yours, fact is you robed Arabs from them and selling it back to them.
one thing is sure you quit got every thing wrong and i dont blame you i blame the Zionism education which is racial education.

why you should let Arabs into Israel to work?... cuz you goddamn people took all the useful lands and left Arabs with sands and even when they plant olive there you destroy it. now that rest of the world is trying to set the boards in Jerusalem you are 1 step ahead of the world and building more and more settlement so by the time US decides to say NO to more settlement's it would be already too late.

although Jews where part of Poland, history says they were un wanted there as well.

[Skiz]

OUR drinking water, OUR fuel, OUR food?I think that to some extent you've just highlighted part of the problem, and it was nice of you to capitalise it.

The fact is that it used to be THEIR drinking water, THEIR fuel, THEIR food.
Although you may have considerably enhanced them (and at the same time increased the strains on the very same resources) what right do you think you have to refuse access to them?

Because they took it, that's why. The same as every piece of land on this planet was taken by force from one country or another.

Who's water, food, or fuel it was is of little consequence...

It's understandable why the Palestinians want it back, but they're gonna have to take it. Sucker punches aren't going to do it though.

[Skiz]

am not against jews pal i just dont recognize "Israel". this state was based on force and occupation.

What a silly rationale... :lol:

[BawA]

I think that to some extent you've just highlighted part of the problem, and it was nice of you to capitalise it.

The fact is that it used to be THEIR drinking water, THEIR fuel, THEIR food.
Although you may have considerably enhanced them (and at the same time increased the strains on the very same resources) what right do you think you have to refuse access to them?

Because they took it, that's why. The same as every piece of land on this planet was taken by force from one country or another.

Who's water, food, or fuel it was is of little consequence...

It's understandable why the Palestinians want it back, but they're gonna have to take it. Sucker punches aren't going to do it though.

again "they did it so we do it"

[BawA]

am not against jews pal i just dont recognize "Israel". this state was based on force and occupation.

What a silly rationale... :lol:

Ignore function didnt work?

[lynx]

I think that to some extent you've just highlighted part of the problem, and it was nice of you to capitalise it.

The fact is that it used to be THEIR drinking water, THEIR fuel, THEIR food.
Although you may have considerably enhanced them (and at the same time increased the strains on the very same resources) what right do you think you have to refuse access to them?

Because they took it, that's why. The same as every piece of land on this planet was taken by force from one country or another.

Who's water, food, or fuel it was is of little consequence...

It's understandable why the Palestinians want it back, but they're gonna have to take it. Sucker punches aren't going to do it though.
Okay then, you seem to be suggesting that might is right.
In that case stop criticising the Palestinians if they are trying to take those resources back by force.
Think it through next time.

[ilw]

...
Given the volte face that I've performed since moving to Israel four years ago, I was asked to describe my most influential experience thus far, in terms of providing a catalyst to the political journey [zionist -> 2 state supporter] upon which I've embarked.

Without hesitation, I replied that it had been my illicit trip to Bethlehem during a weekend furlough from the army. Our unit was serving in the city at the time, and – until then – I had been conditioned to see the residents as potential terrorists who had to be dealt with accordingly in order to avert a deadly threat to our safety.

With no M16 by my side or grenade in my pack, I passed through the checkpoint and took my first tentative steps on so-called enemy terrain. In jeans and a T-shirt, I walked the same streets of the Aida refugee camp that a day earlier I'd been patrolling armed to the teeth and with five other soldiers backing me up.

I gazed casually at the same windows and doors at which I'd previously had to stare, hawk-like, in case a gunman or bomber should burst out and attack our squad. I looked calmly at the same gangs of youths who, when I was in uniform, I'd had to judge in an instant – whether they were benignly intentioned or baying for my blood.

The fear instilled in me by the army all but dissipated once I was simply a tourist strolling through the town. Conversely, the more weaponry and protective gear I carried, the more terrifying the place became which, it dawned on me, was a distillation of Israel's core and eternal paradox – one that has dogged it since the moment the state was created.

For there to be a justification for Israel's existence, there first has to exist an existential threat to the Jewish people. Granted, history has handed us that fear of annihilation on a plate, but just because the fear exists, it doesn't necessarily follow that what is feared does too.

A prominent narrative of the Jewish tradition is that, in every generation, a manifestation of Amalek will attempt to wipe out the Jewish people, just as the original marauding Amalekites did during the Jews' exodus from Egypt. The Romans, Babylonians, Greeks, Soviets and Nazis have all, understandably, been christened modern-day Amalekites – and now Iran is being touted as the most recent member of the millennia-old dynasty.

Fear of extermination is the ace in the Jewish pack of emotions, and has been capitalised on in spades by the virulent strain of nationalism encapsulated in today's Zionism. Occupy an entire people and crush their hopes and dreams for 40 years? A necessary evil – if we don't then we're done for. Fly in the face of international law, basic morality, and even the central tenets of our own, ostensibly compassionate, religion? Sorry, but you have to understand that "they" all want us dead; it's us or them, from now until eternity.

It's almost irrelevant who "they" are. One day it's the Palestinians for daring to try to shake off the yoke of oppression; the next it's the European left for having the nerve to intercede on behalf of justice and decency. "They" can be a lone gunman, such as Norman Finkelstein or "they" can be a billion people, such as the world's entire Muslim population, conveniently repackaged as one homogenous group based on spurious racial profiling.

Concrete walls are built between "us" and "them"; orders are given banning Israelis from crossing the divide into PA territory – all under the banner of protecting the security of Israelis. In reality, however, they are merely an insidious attempt to hermetically seal Israel off from the outside world and convince the Israelis that it's an unavoidable measure to take.

Those of us who've come, seen, and conquered our preconceptions of the Palestinian street know full well that the canards being propagated are simply preposterous. Of course, there are some very angry, very violent militants among the Palestinian people, but so too are there similarly dangerous elements in Israeli society, as well as in every ethnic group around the world.

The reaction amongst my Israeli friends when they hear of my trips to Jenin, Ramallah or Bethlehem is usually one of abject horror that I even set foot inside the cities, let alone met the locals and visited them in their homes. "They'd kill you if they knew you were Jewish," they cry, utterly convinced that a Palestinian wolf lies behind every refugee camp door. The truth is far different, of course; almost everyone I meet knows I am both Jewish and Israeli, and – thus far – I've been neither beaten, beheaded nor bludgeoned to death.

It's totally understandable why the mythology and misconceptions flourish unchecked amongst the Israeli man on the street, or in the diaspora Jewish community. In the vacuum left by enforced separation between Jews and Palestinians, rampant fabrication runs riot, and fiction becomes truth in the minds of the masses. It's also understandable that the government encourages and promotes such fairy tales, in order to garner support for their never ending policies of irredentism and subjugation.

But just because it's understandable doesn't make it in any way acceptable. Morals and ethics are crushed under the wheels of the nationalist juggernaut, and what would be entirely unpalatable in any other circumstance becomes not only tolerated by society, but actively encouraged by the Israeli electorate and their cheerleaders around the world.

By continuing to provoke and bully the Palestinians, they create what they fear. Another generation branded Amalekites: another reason for Israelis to circle the wagons, batten down the hatches, and convince themselves that it is simply their lot to be eternally hated and reviled. And no amount of well-intentioned pressure can ever be sufficient to penetrate the calcified layer of mistrust between the Jewish people and the outside world.

seth freedman writing in the guardian.

[torrentt]

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not."
--- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian to Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946.

[BawA]

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not."
--- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian to Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946.

maybe not, but wasn't that an arab land? am not forcing you to use your long term memory which i doubt you have, just recall last time jews went to arab land and occupied it, was it empty and had "land for jews" sign on it?
for god sake how ignorant are you, Jews refuged entire nation based on a silly "Balfour Declaration" which was imposed by an asshole named Chaim Weizmann.

[Mr JP Fugley]

Again you do it.

You refer to Jews and Arabs. You refer to one by their religion and to the other by which part of the World they come from. Can't you see that makes you look like a bigot, whether you are one or not.

It really doesn't help your argument. Particularly as I'm quite sure there are non-Jews who would consider themselves to be Israeli. There must be at least a few Atheists or Agnostics or Christians oe heaven forfend Muslims there.

So by you constantly referring to a "jew state" and the like you make it a religious rather than political argument.

[ilw]

i think the israelis here would say that Israel is a jewish state. And i think jewish people would say they are a 'race'.

[BawA]

Again you do it.

You refer to Jews and Arabs. You refer to one by their religion and to the other by which part of the World they come from. Can't you see that makes you look like a bigot, whether you are one or not.

It really doesn't help your argument. Particularly as I'm quite sure there are non-Jews who would consider themselves to be Israeli. There must be at least a few Atheists or Agnostics or Christians oe heaven forfend Muslims there.

So by you constantly referring to a "jew state" and the like you make it a religious rather than political argument.

this is you talking but fact is opposite, how many times Olmert and his foreign minister and many others for decades have been declaring Israel a Jew state. you dont call that a racial then i dont know how you think.

[Skiz]

Because they took it, that's why. The same as every piece of land on this planet was taken by force from one country or another.

Who's water, food, or fuel it was is of little consequence...

It's understandable why the Palestinians want it back, but they're gonna have to take it. Sucker punches aren't going to do it though.
Okay then, you seem to be suggesting that might is right.
In that case stop criticising the Palestinians if they are trying to take those resources back by force.
Think it through next time.

Think what through?

You need to read my commentary again it seems. I never criticized the Palestinians for anything.

[BawA]

Okay then, you seem to be suggesting that might is right.
In that case stop criticising the Palestinians if they are trying to take those resources back by force.
Think it through next time.

Think what through?

You need to read my commentary again it seems. I never criticized the Palestinians for anything.

you say same thing to everyone?

[Mr JP Fugley]

I didn't say it wasn't a Jewish state, It primarily is, the same way as the UK is considered Christian. However like Britain it isn't exclusively one, I think it's something like 75-80% Jewish.

That's not my point though. My point, as I said before, was that you referred to Jews and Arabs, referring to one by their religion and one by their geographical origin. Which suggests that it's a religious issue for you and that you are an anti-semite.

Why not refer to Israeli's and Arabs, or Jews and Muslims.

I really couldn't care less, I'm just telling you how it comes across to me when I read it, others may or may not be the same.

[torrentt]

the Israeli state was established in order to prevent another holocaust from occuring.
about 17% of Israel population are muslims, rapidly multiplying.
ilw, the Jewish people don't say they are a "race", you are a fool.
I know you have been taught things, but just look at the facts.
Jews who came here in the 19th and 20th century bought many lands here, did the impossible and turned the desert into modern and successful cities etc. In 1948 many of the arabs who where still here, where told by the other arabs nations to get out of Israel, and after the war, which they will start on Israel, these arabs will return back to a place that will be belong to them. Israel defeted them and won the war. Israel offered many territories to the so called palestenians but they refused, wanting all of Israel, not peace. As Golda Meir, former israel prime minister, said: "we will have peace with the arabs when they love their children more than they hate us". There is no use of talking to you cuz your mind is set already. Israel want peace, thats a fact, peace = living. Arabs want Israel = they want war = death = Shaheed as your have been taught, be a shaheed and go to heaven, right?

[BawA]

the conflict in that region in regard to "Israel" is Arab Vs Jews cuz Arabs dont recognize Israel so they call them jew/Zionist, and FYI Arabs aren't only Muslims so it isn't only Muslims disliking "Israel".

[BawA]

the Israeli state was established in order to prevent another holocaust from occuring.
yeh i can clearly see another Holocaust not coming in way.


about 17% of Israel population are Muslims, rapidly multiplying.
...which Government over there is trying its best to prevent exceeding their number by not giving new born's Israel citizenship and many similar tactics including sending back to occupied lands.


ilw, the Jewish people don't say they are a "race", you are a fool.
yeh right


I know you have been taught things, but just look at the facts.
England and race talks, forget about it.


Jews who came here in the 19th and 20th century bought many lands here, did the impossible and turned the desert into modern and successful cities etc. In 1948 many of the arabs who where still here, where told by the other arabs nations to get out of Israel, and after the war, which they will start on Israel, these arabs will return back to a place that will be belong to them. Israel defeted them and won the war. Israel offered many territories to the so called palestenians but they refused, wanting all of Israel, not peace. As Golda Meir, former israel prime minister, said: "we will have peace with the arabs when they love their children more than they hate us". There is no use of talking to you cuz your mind is set already. Israel want peace, thats a fact, peace = living. Arabs want Israel = they want war = death = Shaheed as your have been taught, be a shaheed and go to heaven, right?
give me a break...
you fought your way with support of America and OCCUPIED land and then took most commercial areas and offered arabs dead lands usefull for nothing. for god sake there are millions now living in Lebanon and Jordan and many other countries and Israel aint agreeing to let them return back, there are people older then jews state it self still caring keys to their homes waiting to return.
you say jews bought lands, from who? jews already there?
they modernized those areas, what you think Arabs couldn't do that? its called revolution which comes step by step.

[torrentt]

u see, u don't believe anything i say, whats the point of arguing with you?
your parents taught you things
jews bought lands from arabs who where here, and no, that doesn't mean that only arabs where here.
i don't really care about those arabs who keep their keys, they don't care about me neither.
and about modernizing areas, look on other places in the world, but not 60 years ago, but 2000-3000 years ago, thats how Israel looked like before the Jews came here and developed this place, when the arabs came to Israel, they robbed the Holy places and everything else. Now i assume you will say that everything i said isn't true, thats why i'll try not to comment here anymore cuz its a wast of time.

[ilw]

torrentt - fair enough, a quick google tells me that jews apparently don't like being called a race. I was previously under the impression that things like the maternal inheritance of religion and lack of proselytisation were designed to maintain some sort of racial lineage, but apparently not...


The terms "Jewish state" and "homeland of the Jewish people" are used to describe the State of Israel[1][2][3][4][5][6] and refer to its status as a nation-state for the Jewish people. The phrase "national home for the Jewish people" has evolved over the years since it originated and was used in official documents such as the Balfour Declaration of 1917. The concept of a national homeland for the Jewish people is enshrined in Israeli national policy and reflected in many of Israel's public institutions. The concept was codified in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 as well as in the Law of Return, which was passed by the Knesset on 5 July 1950, and stated "Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh."

Citizenship and use of state land (i.e. a lot of Israel) is also discriminatory based on religion

[Mr JP Fugley]

the conflict in that region in regard to "Israel" is Arab Vs Jews cuz Arabs dont recognize Israel so they call them jew/Zionist, and FYI Arabs aren't only Muslims so it isn't only Muslims disliking "Israel".

Yes and it's not only Jews who are Israeli's so it's not a reasonable position to take. If they don't recognise Israel then they don't recognise the State, not just the Jewish people who live in it.

You make it a religious issue, not a political one when you say thing like that. Which makes you look like a bigot. You look even worse when you take offence when someone suggests that all Arabs are Muslim (which is exactly the same as what you are doing, so you must see how it is offensive.)

[BawA]

u see, u don't believe anything i say, whats the point of arguing with you?
your parents taught you things
jews bought lands from arabs who where here, and no, that doesn't mean that only arabs where here.
i don't really care about those arabs who keep their keys, they don't care about me neither.
and about modernizing areas, look on other places in the world, but not 60 years ago, but 2000-3000 years ago, thats how Israel looked like before the Jews came here and developed this place, when the arabs came to Israel, they robbed the Holy places and everything else. Now i assume you will say that everything i said isn't true, thats why i'll try not to comment here anymore cuz its a wast of time.
you dont suggest that 3000 years ago they should had skyscrapers, do you?
they may bought some lands but not all which are occupied, just admit it that you got your so called Jewish homeland by help of clans which you call them terrorist these days. your blood is blood but arab bloods which is being dropped these days to get their land back is water, right?

JP where you got the feeling that i take it offensive about arabs not being only muslims?


thats why i'll try not to comment here anymore cuz its a wast of time.
there goes second
bring it on third one.

[bigboab]

you dont suggest that 3000 years ago they should had sky crappers, do you?


Have they started to shit on you from a great height now? I blame Rafi.:)

[BawA]

Boab if you dont have anything to say dont go on with spelling mistakes please.

[j2k4]

you dont suggest that 3000 years ago they should had sky crappers, do you?


Have they started to shit on you from a great height now? I blame Rafi.:)


Boab if you dont have anything to dont go on with spelling mistakes please.

You've provided a tortuous topic, BawA, and now you've given us some comic relief.

No harm pointing that out, I don't think.

[BawA]

yeh yeh, when you you people dont have counter argument you come up with this sort of replies, changing the topic course, ive been here long enough to know that.

[bigboab]

yeh yeh, when you you people dont have counter argument you come up with this sort of replies, changing the topic course, ive been here long enough to know that.

I think if you check any previous post I have made on this subject that I have not taken any side. In fact I suggested that Israel 'buy' the land of the Palestinians. Try anything to stop the bloodshed on either side.:(

[Agrajag]

yeh yeh, when you you people dont have counter argument you come up with this sort of replies, changing the topic course, ive been here long enough to know that.

I'm not trying to argue or counter argue. I was just pointing out that where the issue is essentially of a political nature you make it a religious one. As do loads of other people, which to my mind makes any problem more difficult to solve.

See where it's religious then the different sides have God's blessing on what they are doing so, to some ways of thinking, that means they can do pretty much whatever they want.

[The Flying Cow]

ilw, the Jewish people don't say they are a "race", you are a fool.

That they do. Evidently you are the fool here. More like a clown type.


Israel want peace, thats a fact, peace = living. Arabs want Israel = they want war = death = Shaheed as your have been taught, be a shaheed and go to heaven, right?

Nah man, Israel wants more and more turf. Peace my arse. They couldn't give two hoots about that. Peace is secondary to them, or this war would have stopped a long time ago.

Comprende?

[j2k4]

yeh yeh, when you you people dont have counter argument you come up with this sort of replies, changing the topic course, ive been here long enough to know that.

As far as my arguments, counter- or otherwise, you may or may not have seen them, depending...I can assure I have made them, and also that you may access them via the search function.

I continually refine them; I have plenty of criticisms for Israel, several times several more for the various Arab factions, but, as always, it comes down to the fact that Israel is by popular acclaim to be eliminated/erased, etc., and that imperative is a one-way sentiment.

All other considerations spring from this.

My opinion.

[tralalala]

yeh i can clearly see another Holocaust not coming in way.


about 17% of Israel population are Muslims, rapidly multiplying.
...which Government over there is trying its best to prevent exceeding their number by not giving new born's Israel citizenship and many similar tactics including sending back to occupied lands.

That, my friend, is pure utter bullcrap. Every single person born in Israel, who's parents are either Jewish or have an Israeli citizenship, automatically get a blue ID card, no questions asked.


ilw, the Jewish people don't say they are a "race", you are a fool.
yeh right

Again, bullcrap. The special thing about the term "Jew" is that it refers to 2 things at the same time - A religion, and a NATION. Not a race. Believe it or not, Semites are not only Jews, but also Egyptians, Lebanese and Syrians. We are not a race being Jewish, we are a nation.


I know you have been taught things, but just look at the facts.
England and race talks, forget about it.


Jews who came here in the 19th and 20th century bought many lands here, did the impossible and turned the desert into modern and successful cities etc. In 1948 many of the arabs who where still here, where told by the other arabs nations to get out of Israel, and after the war, which they will start on Israel, these arabs will return back to a place that will be belong to them. Israel defeted them and won the war. Israel offered many territories to the so called palestenians but they refused, wanting all of Israel, not peace. As Golda Meir, former israel prime minister, said: "we will have peace with the arabs when they love their children more than they hate us". There is no use of talking to you cuz your mind is set already. Israel want peace, thats a fact, peace = living. Arabs want Israel = they want war = death = Shaheed as your have been taught, be a shaheed and go to heaven, right?
give me a break...
you fought your way with support of America and OCCUPIED land and then took most commercial areas and offered arabs dead lands usefull for nothing. for god sake there are millions now living in Lebanon and Jordan and many other countries and Israel aint agreeing to let them return back, there are people older then jews state it self still caring keys to their homes waiting to return.
you say jews bought lands, from who? jews already there?
they modernized those areas, what you think Arabs couldn't do that? its called revolution which comes step by step.

Point being? Like in any other war, the best army wins. We won, we took what we got, we made a state that to be honest would always be way better than any Arab state on this land, and that's that for a fact. You claim you got here first.. Quit the shit-talks.. Go read the bible for reference.. It's like the chicken and the egg thing all over again.. It's irrelevant.



So all in all, you should try get your facts and ideas a little more exact next time.

[BawA]

yeh i can clearly see another Holocaust not coming in way.


...which Government over there is trying its best to prevent exceeding their number by not giving new born's Israel citizenship and many similar tactics including sending back to occupied lands.

That, my friend, is pure utter bullcrap. Every single person born in Israel, who's parents are either Jewish or have an Israeli citizenship, automatically get a blue ID card, no questions asked.


ilw, the Jewish people don't say they are a "race", you are a fool.
yeh right

Again, bullcrap. The special thing about the term "Jew" is that it refers to 2 things at the same time - A religion, and a NATION. Not a race. Believe it or not, Semites are not only Jews, but also Egyptians, Lebanese and Syrians. We are not a race being Jewish, we are a nation.


I know you have been taught things, but just look at the facts.
England and race talks, forget about it.


Jews who came here in the 19th and 20th century bought many lands here, did the impossible and turned the desert into modern and successful cities etc. In 1948 many of the arabs who where still here, where told by the other arabs nations to get out of Israel, and after the war, which they will start on Israel, these arabs will return back to a place that will be belong to them. Israel defeted them and won the war. Israel offered many territories to the so called palestenians but they refused, wanting all of Israel, not peace. As Golda Meir, former israel prime minister, said: "we will have peace with the arabs when they love their children more than they hate us". There is no use of talking to you cuz your mind is set already. Israel want peace, thats a fact, peace = living. Arabs want Israel = they want war = death = Shaheed as your have been taught, be a shaheed and go to heaven, right?
give me a break...
you fought your way with support of America and OCCUPIED land and then took most commercial areas and offered arabs dead lands usefull for nothing. for god sake there are millions now living in Lebanon and Jordan and many other countries and Israel aint agreeing to let them return back, there are people older then jews state it self still caring keys to their homes waiting to return.
you say jews bought lands, from who? jews already there?
they modernized those areas, what you think Arabs couldn't do that? its called revolution which comes step by step.

Point being? Like in any other war, the best army wins. We won, we took what we got, we made a state that to be honest would always be way better than any Arab state on this land, and that's that for a fact. You claim you got here first.. Quit the shit-talks.. Go read the bible for reference.. It's like the chicken and the egg thing all over again.. It's irrelevant.



So all in all, you should try get your facts and ideas a little more exact next time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3111727.stm

The Israeli parliament passed a law preventing Palestinians married to Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship.


Again, bullcrap. The special thing about the term "Jew" is that it refers to 2 things at the same time - A religion, and a NATION. Not a race. Believe it or not, Semites are not only Jews, but also Egyptians, Lebanese and Syrians. We are not a race being Jewish, we are a nation.

yeh sure, like jews only live in "Israel".


Point being? Like in any other war, the best army wins. We won, we took what we got, we made a state that to be honest would always be way better than any Arab state on this land, and that's that for a fact. You claim you got here first.. Quit the shit-talks.. Go read the bible for reference.. It's like the chicken and the egg thing all over again.. It's irrelevant.
So you accept your guilt of forcing your way into Arab land and your also with the terminology of "strong eating weak", then stop bitching about holocaust, you were weak at the time and Nazi's had stronger army, they wanted land they took land.

rafi just by using terms like "utter shit" and "bull crap" doesn't make something not true nor makes up your facts which completely is missing from your arguments.
bring up something factional next time so i can reply to you in more painful way.

[tralalala]

:lol:

You obviously didn't understand the term "nation" in this particular context - The Jews are a large body of people with common grounds (culture, descent etc..). Being a part of the Jewish nation doesn't mean you live in Israel. American Jews are part of the Jewish nation just as much as an Israeli Jew is.

Think about that item you posted - Palestinians are at a state of war with us, why on earth would be give them citizenship..? :huh:

Once again you're mixing Arab-Israelis and Palestinians. EVERY Israeli-Arab has his Israeli citizenship, so do his children born and bred in Israel and so forth.

You want facts? Go read the Israeli book of laws, it's all in there.



About your second statement - You're proving yourself as a person who's shooting many artificial facts into the air.. The Nazis did indeed take land, but from whom? The Jews? Jeebus.. Your history teacher must've messed you up big time.. They took land from the Poles, the Baltics, the French, Norway.... Not from the Jews.. How can you compare that to what's happening in the Strip?
We weren't weak at the time.. A big load of Europe's economy was held by Jews who did a hefty amount of work there.. We were a big part of many of the Europeans' cultures.. Artists, philosophers, scientists (Einstein, anyone?).

Give your posts a think or two before posting them next time.

[BawA]

Think about that item you posted - Palestinians are at a state of war with us, why on earth would be give them citizenship..?
i dont expect anything from you, i just replied to you and to the guy who was proud of that 17% citizenship owners being Arabs in "Israel", well it doesn't make jew government exactly proud, its more like enforced. what i mentioned is one of the tactics your government is using to stop arabs exceeding your number in "Israel".

it doesn't matter whom they took land from, as far as it concerns to your statement of strong eating weak it was all fair what happened to jews in that time.
as you said once to me that Palestine is combination of few parts of three arab countries and then you occupied it so its same as what you stated up about Nazis taking land from several countries.
if you were so strong why then you were so closed to extermination.
just admit it, "Israel" is sins of its fathers, from very 1st moment you people walked on your un-loved fathers foot prints.

[IdolEyes787]

Apologies to all involved if I seem a bit callus but I find this this thread to be a remarkable microcosm of the Arab/Israeli conflict.
Lots of rhetoric and saber rattling by both sides with the occasional incursion by outside forces,but on the whole rather pointless.

[tralalala]

what :mellow:

You really are a narrow-minded person, aren't you, Bawa? The Jews back in the 30s didn't have a bloody state of their own, so how could they fight the Nazis?! They were part of many other countries being attacked by Germany, and the Nazis sought to exterminate the Jews for being Jews.. How the hell can you remotely consider this anything like what is going on in the Gaza Strip nowadays!?


Craziness :o

[Mr JP Fugley]

stop bitching about holocaust, you were weak at the time and Nazi's had stronger army, they wanted land they took land.



Prick.

Fuck off and die, soon.

I used to think you were just an idiot. Now I realize you are a bigoted bag of shite.

[BawA]

stop bitching about holocaust, you were weak at the time and Nazi's had stronger army, they wanted land they took land.



Prick.

Fuck off and die, soon.

I used to think you were just an idiot. Now I realize you are a bigoted bag of shite.

:D:D
there goes 3rd? keep them coming!!

[BawA]

You really are a narrow-minded person, aren't you, Bawa? The Jews back in the 30s didn't have a bloody state of their own, so how could they fight the Nazis?
then stop saying jews were powerful part of those countries. have a look at France, USA and many other European countries, if a finger is pointed at jews lobby in all those countries will start biting politician so hard that they will come to their knees, that's what means being powerful, not only you find it hard to hear a bad thing about yourself in jew state you even cant stand it else where as well.


and the Nazis sought to exterminate the Jews for being Jews.. How the hell can you remotely consider this anything like what is going on in the Gaza Strip nowadays!?

ahhh, and your exterminating muslims for being...? plz dont say terrorist, thats so typical.

[Mr JP Fugley]

How is it analogous with rounding people up and exterminating them. Men woman and children into gas chambers, six million of them. How is it analogous with the concentration camps. Starving people to death or carrying out medical experiments on them. What's happening is nothing like that and your comments just show you for what you are. It's not political at all it's religious, you are a bigot.

I really did think you were OK. Now I just think you are a pathetic bigot.

[BawA]

dropping bombs on them while their in sleep, cutting foods and supplies couple of times in a month, snipping children while coming out of schools and and and, what you call them, genocide or exterminating ? am with it either way.

i really thought you were as crazy as your avatar but now i just think your a nutjob .

[Mr JP Fugley]

dropping bombs on them while their in sleep, cutting foods and supplies couple of times in a month, snipping children while coming out of schools and and and, what you call them, genocide or exterminating ? am with it either way.

i really thought you were as crazy as your avatar but now i just think your a nutjob .

It's not even in the same league and you know it. Neither is it exactly against people who aren't able to fight back. Or indeed to commit their own atrocities.

Cutting food and supplies once a fortnight is not the same as the systematic enslavement, torture and murder of 6,000,000 civilians. Who were unable to do anything to defend themselves.

To suggest that it's the same is ludicrous and only a bigot would say it.

[BawA]

Cutting food and supplies once a fortnight is not the same as the systematic enslavement, torture and murder of 6,000,000 civilians. Who were unable to do anything to defend themselves.
prove it psycho, all of that are just a theories.
same league or not its all killing innocent, nazis were saving bullets at that time now jews have bombs, one shot and few dead's.

[Mr JP Fugley]

Cutting food and supplies once a fortnight is not the same as the systematic enslavement, torture and murder of 6,000,000 civilians. Who were unable to do anything to defend themselves.
prove it psycho, all of that are just a theories.
same league or not its all killing innocent, nazis were saving bullets at that time now jews have bombs, one shot and few dead's.

Holocaust denial, there's a surprise.

"All of that" are not "just a theories" it's a matter of historical record. Based on documentary evidence, newsreel footage, physical evidence and witness testimony. The facts have been tested in Courts and proven to be correct.

Keep going, your true colours are shining though in every bigoted piece of bile you post.

[BawA]

infect there is no surprise at all, ive always doubted the holocaust and most of the members here know it, the fact that nobody can question the holocaust makes itself kinda doubtful.

keep it coming nut job, the more you say the more you will look like a nut case.

[Mr JP Fugley]

infect there is no surprise at all, ive always doubted the holocaust and most of the members here know it, the fact that nobody can question the holocaust makes itself kinda doubtful.




What on Earth is that supposed to mean. "...the fact that nobody can question the holocaust makes itself kinda doubtful."

The fact that it happened and there is so much evidence of it happening that it's impossible for a rational human being to question it makes it doubtful.

Is that what they're teaching in Jew Hating class now.

[BawA]

if everybody is sure about it then dont get scared, let other do their part of investigation, why do you jail some1 for just questioning some of those evidence you talk about.

we are not thought to hate jews, we are thought to hate Zionism, the exact way you people were thought about hating Nazis or being thought to hate any1 wearing an scarf.

[Mr JP Fugley]

if everybody is sure about it then dont get scared, let other do their part of investigation, why do you jail some1 for just questioning some of those evidence you talk about.

we are not thought to hate jews, we are thought to hate Zionism, the exact way you people were thought about hating Nazis or being thought to hate any1 wearing an scarf.

What would I be scared of. Investigate away, I don't see how you intend disproving anything. The evidence it happened is all there and has been tested and accepted. I even know people who went into the concentration camps and saw things with their own eyes.

Neither has my country, to the best of my knowledge jailed anyone for not believing it. Or for questioning the evidence. Isn't it the Germans and Austrians who do that. Out of a sense of guilt at what they did.

What are you talking about "...thought to hate any1 wearing an scarf."

[BawA]

i never mentioned any country, i meant in Europe in general, they dont like questioning holocaust(maybe they think jews may come back).
last time they jailed some British writer for a book he wrote which he question HC in it.

you know exactly what i mean by scarf wearers.

[Barbarossa]

i never mentioned any country, i meant in Europe in general, they dont like questioning holocaust(maybe they think jews may come back).
last time they jailed some British writer for a book he wrote which he question HC in it.

you know exactly what i mean by scarf wearers.

Presumably not Paddington Bear or Doctor Who :blink:

As JP said, I think it's only Austria or Germany that have laws against denying the holocaust. Mainly for reasons of national shame, I would suggest.

[Mr JP Fugley]

i never mentioned any country, i meant in Europe in general, they dont like questioning holocaust(maybe they think jews may come back).
last time they jailed some British writer for a book he wrote which he question HC in it.

you know exactly what i mean by scarf wearers.

I can assure you I do not know what you mean by Scarf Wearers. If anyone else does can you let me know.

[lynx]

I assume he means a head-scarf, as opposed to something to keep the cold weather out of your shirt.

[Mr JP Fugley]

Why would I be taught to hate anyone wearing a head-scarf. It was common practice where I came from. In fact you rarely saw a woman who wasn't wearing one. My Mother and Grandmother wore them a lot of the time.

I'm not being obtuse here, I really don't have a clue what he means.

[j2k4]

i never mentioned any country, i meant in Europe in general, they dont like questioning holocaust(maybe they think jews may come back).
last time they jailed some British writer for a book he wrote which he question HC in it.

you know exactly what i mean by scarf wearers.

Bawa-

I'll step away from the topic just long enough to note that not only are you wrong, you are (in the vernacular of sincere personal differentials) committing the offense of being loud wrong.

You can generally take it right to the bank when you are being informed of your wrong-ness by people both younger and older than you are.

The fact of a consensus is beside the point. :dabs:

[The Flying Cow]

He could be implying homosecksuals. Pink scarf-wearers?

It's all very vague, to be honest.

[j2k4]

He could be implying homosecksuals. Pink scarf-wearers?

It's all very vague, to be honest.

Hadn't thought of that.

I take it all back. :whistling

[BawA]

He could be implying homosecksuals. Pink scarf-wearers?

It's all very vague, to be honest.
nooby your not mature enough to take a part it such a serious discussions, how about helping your silly replies to the lounge(where you belong).

j2k4 no offense but can you please talk in little lesser oxford so i can understand your point.
and please back your arguments with a lil bit facts instead of going on with "bawa is wrong", also do yourself a favor and pull out your tongue out of "Israelis" ass, dogs do that; dont be like your politicians.

[j2k4]

j2k4 no offense but can you please talk in little lesser oxford so i can understand your point.

I have a better idea...why don't you elevate the tone of your own posts a bit and meet me halfway?

Besides which...


and please back your arguments with a lil bit facts instead of going on with "bawa is wrong", also do yourself a favor and pull out your tung out of "Israelis" ass, dogs do that; dont be like your politicians.

...if you didn't understand my post, you wouldn't know enough to be offended, now would you?

More to the point, if you are disposed to question the fact of the Holocaust, you are, beyond any doubt, wrong, and wrong to do so.

To question whether or not the Holocaust occurred is a hallmark of ignorance, and I cannot say I am sorry to be the one to inform you of this.

BTW-

What is a "tung"?

[Mr JP Fugley]

It's a type of tree. The oil extracted from it can be used as a furniture finish. Ben could probably tell you all about it.

[j2k4]

It's a type of tree. The oil extracted from it can be used as a furniture finish. Ben could probably tell you all about it.

Yes, yes, I know all that, but I don't have one.

Are you asserting you can explain BawA, for BawA. :huh:

[BawA]

yeh trash up the thread, after all youre no good cunt.

[j2k4]

yeh trash up the thread, after all youre no good cunt, albeit one with semantic and spelling superiority, and unstinting logic thrown in.

/fixed :whistling

[tralalala]

:lol: