U$ National Debt

[thewizeard]

Who would have thought that 4 tinzy winzy letters ( Bush) would add up to http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif ?
Now..my question is, " Can the U$ really afford a new Republican President?" :unsure:

I think not! :noes:

[ilw]

i think it is slightly strange, from my understanding the republicans (who are supposedly fiscally conservative) have in the last few decades spent more, and even more weirdly the states that vote in republicans are generally the poorer ones who suck in the most federal taxes (i.e. the ones that would presumably benefit from the more redistributive social taxes that are associated with the democrats)

[devilsadvocate]

When I first heard the punchline on this commercial I thought it was a Democratic campaign advert attacking the GOP.

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Please forgive if the embedding doesn't work, I think I've figured it out.

I've always wondered what original "who you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" Slight of hand and creative accounting made so many think the Republicans were fiscally responsible. Even today many continue to do so when the evidence showing otherwise is right in front of them.

I'm sure someone is going to say something about the Democratic party with taxation and spending talking points, but I'm posting about the Republicans (ill deserved) reputation as being fiscally responsible.

[thewizeard]

This little financial fiasco is only the tip of the iceberg of what Bush actually has cost the (your) nation. The respect of the world, that's the real cost. It also heralds the beginning of the end of the USA as a world power...after all, why should we Europeans continue to pay for the follies of this cowboy president? We are already suffering the costs of this American dream; remember the hedge funds. How many citizens have lost their houses after failing payments on their mortgages?Bush should be the next to face trial in Iraq, the charge? Crimes against humanity. Hmmpf ...Bush.

*This is a 100% European view..and, devilsadvocate if you want to be a devilsadvocate, that's up to you! The American dream is over; raped and imprisoned by an extremely cunning dictator. Wake up now USA. Don't be fooled by all those electoral promises from the Republicans. Wake up.

[devilsadvocate]

*This is a 100% European view..and, devilsadvocate if you want to be a devilsadvocate, that's up to you! The American dream is over; raped and imprisoned by an extremely cunning dictator. Wake up now USA. Don't be fooled by all those electoral promises from the Republicans. Wake up.

I feel I have to repeat first that I shall not be voting for McCain or Obama.
I am counting the days for President Bush to leave office and any posts I make are not to defend him or the Republican party. They will be discussion of the merits of any issue raised.

I am interested, what "electoral promises" do you think the Republicans are making that's hypnotizing us all?

If you wish to broaden your original point from domestic fiscal responsibility to political ideology on US foreign policy I would be more than happy to discuss. Do you wish to make it solely about the Republican party or do your opinions extend to the multitude of political Ideologies within the US.

I can really only claim expert status on my own ideology and any comment on the ideology of other Americans would just be generalized opinion and should not be considered hard fact. I think I'm better at observing the process than mind reading.

So to start and to save me going off at a tangent perhaps you could tell me what you think Americans believe or what part of what you think Americans believe that you have a problem with.

I will not be offended by honest criticism.

[Skiz]

Who would have thought that 4 tinzy winzy letters ( Bush) would add up to http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/debtiv.gif ?
Now..my question is, " Can the U$ really afford a new Republican President?" :unsure:

I think not! :noes:

That's quite the fallacy you're presented wizeard.

The US national debt has been in existence since prior to WW2 and has increased under every president, both Republican and Democrat alike. It has increased more than usual under President Bush but we haven't ever experienced the cost of a lengthy battle such as Iraq/Afghanistan before.

Continued efforts in the middle east such as continued funding, and continued troop deployments have been voted on and approved by a Democrat controlled Congress.

[devilsadvocate]

. It has increased more than usual under President Bush but we haven't ever experienced the cost of a lengthy battle such as Iraq/Afghanistan before.

I'm giving you the benefit of doubt here and assume you are talking "inflation" and dollar value with the cost part. New tech has a big price tag. Surely you don't think we haven't ever experienced a battle this lengthy and costly before.



Continued efforts in the middle east such as continued funding, and continued troop deployments have been voted on and approved by a Democrat controlled Congress.

If I was to be fair to the Democrats, they did/do have the votes to get us out of Iraq, they just lacked the needed 2/3rds to override the veto. But they sat back down when they should have stayed standing, so screw fairness.:dry:

[Skiz]

I'm giving you the benefit of doubt here and assume you are talking "inflation" and dollar value with the cost part. New tech has a big price tag.

Obviously inflation has to be taken into account. What I meant was something you touched on - new technology and its enormous cost.


Surely you don't think we haven't ever experienced lengthy costly battle before.

I never said anything of the sort.

I'm beginning to think that other users have an option for this section that I don't have, letting them translate other members' posts to something they want them to say. :huh:

[devilsadvocate]

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and probably helped you out.


Obviously inflation has to be taken into account. What I meant was something you touched on - new technology and its enormous cost.

YOU never said anything of the sort. I had to make a generous guess as to what you meant


Surely you don't think we haven't ever experienced lengthy costly battle before.

->I never said anything of the sort. <- You should have started with this line


you said exactly that.


Originally Posted by Skizo http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/images/buttons_chromo/viewpost.gif (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-the-drawing-room-55/t-u-national-debt-306367-post2921816#post2921816)
but we haven't ever experienced the cost of a lengthy battle such as Iraq/Afghanistan before.
The only difference in cost experience is inflation, which you made no hint towards, which leaves experiencing lengthy battle. We could add mismanagement to it but that's a different discussion.
If you wish to rephrase I will accept your clarification, no foul, no harm



I'm beginning to think that other users have an option for this section that I don't have, letting them translate other members' posts to something they want them to say. I queried your post giving you the benefit of doubt, perhaps other users are like me and don't possess mind reading abilities. I just took a wild guess at what you meant to say. I could have been way off mark.

[thewizeard]

*This is a 100% European view..and, devilsadvocate if you want to be a devilsadvocate, that's up to you! The American dream is over; raped and imprisoned by an extremely cunning dictator. Wake up now USA. Don't be fooled by all those electoral promises from the Republicans. Wake up.

I feel I have to repeat first that I shall not be voting for McCain or Obama.
I am counting the days for President Bush to leave office and any posts I make are not to defend him or the Republican party. They will be discussion of the merits of any issue raised.

I am interested, what "electoral promises" do you think the Republicans are making that's hypnotizing us all?

If you wish to broaden your original point from domestic fiscal responsibility to political ideology on US foreign policy I would be more than happy to discuss. Do you wish to make it solely about the Republican party or do your opinions extend to the multitude of political Ideologies within the US.

I can really only claim expert status on my own ideology and any comment on the ideology of other Americans would just be generalized opinion and should not be considered hard fact. I think I'm better at observing the process than mind reading.

So to start and to save me going off at a tangent perhaps you could tell me what you think Americans believe or what part of what you think Americans believe that you have a problem with.

I will not be offended by honest criticism.

Í think it's time that Americans take heed and understand that their opinions will become less and less important in the world as the crux of the financial power moves across the pacific to Asia. If you choose twice to vote for an alcoholic, failed, oil industrialist, ( anyone can make a mistake, once..but twice, that's unforgiveable) and put him in control of the most powerful country in the world... Then it's no surprise that it will become bankrupt and home owners put out on the streets. The American dream ends in a nightmare.

Perhaps the money wasted in Iraq could better have been used to bring water and health care to places in Africa and other developing countries..and to develop cleaner energy sources?

Your country is bankrupt.

[Skiz]

Í think it's time that Americans take heed and understand that their opinions will become less and less important in the world as the crux of the financial power moves across the pacific to Asia. If you choose twice to vote for an alcoholic, failed, oil industrialist, ( anyone can make a mistake, once..but twice, that's unforgiveable) and put him in control of the most powerful country in the world... Then it's no surprise that it will become bankrupt and home owners put out on the streets. The American dream ends in a nightmare.

Perhaps the money wasted in Iraq could better have been used to bring water and health care to places in Africa and other developing countries..and to develop cleaner energy sources?

Your country is bankrupt.

So is yours. What of it?

As for the financial power moving, there are several Asian countries whose national is in worse shape that ours with regard to percent of GDP. Fact is, most of the Unites States' debt is owed to ourselves.

Saying homeowners are put on the streets is a HUGE exaggeration of who knows what. What the fuck has you been reading?? :blink:

[Mr JP Fugley]

I'm beginning to think that other users have an option for this section that I don't have, letting them translate other members' posts to something they want them to say. :huh:

It's what he's always done. Why would it be any different now.

[devilsadvocate]

Í think it's time that Americans take heed and understand that their opinions will become less and less important in the world as the crux of the financial power moves across the pacific to Asia. If you choose twice to vote for an alcoholic, failed, oil industrialist, ( anyone can make a mistake, once..but twice, that's unforgiveable) and put him in control of the most powerful country in the world... Then it's no surprise that it will become bankrupt and home owners put out on the streets. The American dream ends in a nightmare.

Perhaps the money wasted in Iraq could better have been used to bring water and health care to places in Africa and other developing countries..and to develop cleaner energy sources?

Your country is bankrupt.

Many Americans are aware of world opinion. And it looks like more are of the opinion that we should work with the rest of the world instead of expecting the rest of the world to work for us.

I wrote this in answer to us caring what the world thinks of us, if it helps explain where I stand.

Should Americans care? well that all depends on what is trying to be achieved. If the goal is to make people from other nations stop wanting to blow us up then I think yes we should care what they think. This doesn't mean we have to agree with them. If it comes to helping with things like disasters we shouldn't be caring what they think, we should do it because it's the right thing to do and not for any desire for gratitude or respect. On the world stage there is a fine line between us being a good neighbor and being a busybody and we are not the ones that decide which one we are. Even the most well intentioned busybody tends to be resented to some degree.

While I feel the country has been raped by this administration, your comments about Bush come across as nothing more than an angry rant

I can't defend Iraq, I don't think it was wise to go in and we should have been out years ago. Yes the money could have been spent in better ways, or not spent at all.