The Browse Page!

[stoi]

OK, After running a tracker for god knows how long, it seems to me that as soon as a torrent goes onto the 2nd page of browse, it may as well be dead, it will pick up a few downloaders every now and again over its lifetime, but nothing spectacular.

So do you think the browse page is fine the way it is (on nearly all trackers out there) and if not, how would you change it (because i have not got a clue lol).

It would be great if a 2 year old torrent, was just as popular as a brand new uploaded torrent, but lets face it they are not, Sometimes when i recycle a torrent, (bring it back to the top of browse from the bottom of browse) it will get 500 more snatches, and i just think, why the hell did they not just download it anyway. (so the people are there that want it, they either just do not know they want it because its on the last page, or they are scared to download it because its on the last page).

We came up with the SP system so everyone could download any torrent on the tracker whenever they liked, but most members cant see the wood for the trees and are still scared to touch old torrents.

So my argument is, what do they do on other sites, just hit and run on them, but even then, they are still going to take a ratio hit, so I have never understood the "SP only takes me to a 1 ratio so I wont download" argument i keep hearing, at least it gives you a 1 ratio.

This is just a quick rant/thread before I go to watch the match, but if you could change the browse page, how would you do it?

[integral]

I guess that's true, the majority of people usually either go right to the front page to see what's new, or go and search for something in particular that they want.

As for addressing that issue, it could be tricky. I've seen a 'bump' feature on some trackers, which allow a user to bump a torrent that isn't on the front page, right to the front spot, to get more leechers or whatever. It could be abused on a tracker with a lot of people.

Another way would just to make the first page bigger! Change the default 'torrents per page' to something like 100.

And, congratulations on the anniversary. :)

[c0njur]

Have users rate the game, have a classics section.

I usually either sort by most seeders (or leechers) or check out the Top 10 page on trackers that have them. Its true, I rarely go past the first page.

A staff picks section would be cool too.

[Tokeman]

People are lazy and dont go past the first page most of the time. This is why recycling works well. I dunno how the recycle thing works, but perhaps set an auto recycle that will recycle any torrent snached more then X times, and that has not been snatched in X days (weeks...).

[F3n1x]

Change default torrents /page to 100..
Do a week sugestion torrent in top of browse page, with 5old torrents that are near dead and are very good...

[SgtMajor]

Did somebody just score?? :P

You don't always fancy vanilla ice cream or a mars bar until you see it in front of you, it's not always what you need, it's what takes your eye at the time you are looking, classic marketing strategy.

[Eargasm]

If I've got a good ratio then I will download old torrents. If I have a crappy ratio then I won't, until I have a good ratio.

Then again, stoi, at your tracker there is a ratio requirement for each torrent. So by downloading an old torrent someone is binding into a contract that they will seed it until the cows come home. Maybe they don't think their computer will live that long.

[stoi]

If I've got a good ratio then I will download old torrents. If I have a crappy ratio then I won't, until I have a good ratio.

Then again, stoi, at your tracker there is a ratio requirement for each torrent. So by downloading an old torrent someone is binding into a contract that they will seed it until the cows come home. Maybe they don't think their computer will live that long.

you see this is the fucking problem. (and yes i am swearing about it because it pisses me right off)

On any other tracker out there, they will have to seed it till the cows come home, if they do not want a hit and run on that torrent.

On BCG they seed it for 3 days + say a max on a month and thats for a 25 gig 360 4 disc game, or a PS3 bluray game.

So the max you will ever have to seed any torrent is a month, and a lot more are way under that, 5-10 days usually.

but on any other tracker, you would have to seed it till the cows come home.

[Something Else]

Hardly anyone downloads what they want anymore. It's all about the numbers for most users. :mellow:

[hotshot6473]

Don't make the browse page the first thing a person sees. Instead make all the categories with the last 5 uploaded torrents showing. If somebody wants to view a category it will only show that systems torrents. This will show the user alot more torrents than before as each category will have its own first browse page.

[slimdogp]

All the sites I use regularly I check every day.

So if a new torrent gets uploaded, and I don't jump on it the first day.. that means I don't want it, at least any time soon. Its nice to go back and search for stuff, should the need arise. But I think that many people approach sites like this, not just me.. and once they see it and pass on it once, its out of sight out of mind.

slim

[Swift]

a random system new an old torrents to pop-up on the main browse page would be interesting

[hotshot6473]

Bad idea because only new torrents should be at the top inorder to get new downloaders


a random system new an old torrents to pop-up on the main browse page would be interesting

[Eargasm]

If I've got a good ratio then I will download old torrents. If I have a crappy ratio then I won't, until I have a good ratio.

Then again, stoi, at your tracker there is a ratio requirement for each torrent. So by downloading an old torrent someone is binding into a contract that they will seed it until the cows come home. Maybe they don't think their computer will live that long.

you see this is the fucking problem. (and yes i am swearing about it because it pisses me right off)

On any other tracker out there, they will have to seed it till the cows come home, if they do not want a hit and run on that torrent.

On BCG they seed it for 3 days + say a max on a month and thats for a 25 gig 360 4 disc game, or a PS3 bluray game.

So the max you will ever have to seed any torrent is a month, and a lot more are way under that, 5-10 days usually.

but on any other tracker, you would have to seed it till the cows come home.

Not necessary mate. You see, it's psychological.

No matter what, people are less likely to dl stuff that is buried. However...

On other trackers you've got the psychological benefit of knowing that even if you seed for one year and only get .75:1 ratio that you're probably safe to purge as long as your not the only seeder and your overall ratio rocks.

At BCG, you can seed for perhaps 3 years and never hit that 1:1 ratio. People know this and it makes them wonder if their hardware will still be viable by the time someone seeds it.

Even if you allow them to leave early, they just don't want to let anyone down. Not at BCG.

[integral]

At BCG, you can seed for perhaps 3 years and never hit that 1:1 ratio.

Whoever thinks this, with the SP system in place, has terrible English skills.

stoi you might need to hire some translators for the SP guide if that's the case. :wacko:

[stoi]

yeah i know i dont understand at all.

you seed a 4 gig torrent for 72 hours + 40 hours you have a 1 ratio on it. thats with no leechers at all btw.

and on BCG under 0.8 is still a hit and run so even if your .75 argument was valid, its not on BCG either.

I think you want to re-read our noobs guide to the SP FAQ just so get it, because you obviously dont.

And people wonder why i bang my head against a brick wall sometimes.

[Tokeman]

I have no trouble seeding there, even on older stuff. I dont see the big deal really.
I think it comes down to most people aren't reading the rules, and don't know that they can have 0 leechers but still get 1/1 in a reasonable amount of time.
I must admit, I'm one of those who didn't read, however, since I have no issues seeding, I feel its a non-issue with myself.

[Eargasm]

*hands a padded helmet to stoi*

I'm aware that the seed points make it ok to hit and run after only a month or two. However, I'm looking at this...

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/12/64775426ke4.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/12/64775426ke4.jpg)

[stoi]

a month or 2, i honestly do not know where you are getting your numbers from lol

i just said a 4 gig torrent with no leechers will take you 112 hours, with leechers a lot less, and that includes how long it takes you to download it.

112 hours = 4 1/2 days of seeding.

that to me does not equate to a month or 2. lol

well your ratio on that torrent is 1.7 you dont get SP after you get to 1.0

so your point is?

[SCR]

*hands a padded helmet to stoi*

I'm aware that the seed points make it ok to hit and run after only a month or two. However, I'm looking at this...

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/12/64775426ke4.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/12/64775426ke4.jpg)

That means that you can benefit the SP system because you have more than 1.00 ratio on that torrent .. SP only works with the torrents were you have the lowest ratio...

[Eargasm]

a month or 2, i honestly do not know where you are getting your numbers from lol

i just said a 4 gig torrent with no leechers will take you 112 hours, with leechers a lot less, and that includes how long it takes you to download it.

112 hours = 4 1/2 days of seeding.

that to me does not equate to a month or 2. lol

well your ratio on that torrent is 1.7 you dont get SP after you get to 1.0

so your point is?


The torrent ratio requirement = failed. I'm planning on seeding this until I've met the ratio requirement, at the very least. It appears that would be 20:1. It could be years.

[integral]

lol why dont you pay somebody with a degree in marketing to make crappy games and old torrents desirable?

maybe you should adopt googles page rank algorithm and start sponsoring torrents or using pay per click or adsense or something like that. this way you can ensure even the shitties of games get a fair shake at being downloaded. :lol:

after the initial popularity due to anticipation, games are just like anything else. the only real solution is to force users to bring something to the table and the referral system may be a decent platform to get things going. you can make it a requirement for people to post their top 5 games in their profile when they sign up and use that to make a top 50 list or something. but ultimately, you cant make people do anything they dont want to do.

i set the browse page on trackers to show 100 torrents per page

Why so serious?

[hotshot6473]

Are they prescription?

[stoi]

a month or 2, i honestly do not know where you are getting your numbers from lol

i just said a 4 gig torrent with no leechers will take you 112 hours, with leechers a lot less, and that includes how long it takes you to download it.

112 hours = 4 1/2 days of seeding.

that to me does not equate to a month or 2. lol

well your ratio on that torrent is 1.7 you dont get SP after you get to 1.0

so your point is?


The torrent ratio requirement = failed. I'm planning on seeding this until I've met the ratio requirement, at the very least. It appears that would be 20:1. It could be years.

Ok i will try to explain this in plain English.

20:1 is not the torrent ratio, it is the ratio of seeders to leechers before you get SP.

so if a torrent has 21 seeders and 1 leecher you get SP.

If it has got 19 seeders and 3 leechers, you do not get SP.

We do not expect everyone to seed every torrent till 20:1 that would just be silly to the extreme.

@kooftspc11

This was not just about BCG, but as usual every thread i ever create about the general torrent protocol comes back to BCG, my initial thread was a general assumption over every tracker, not just us.

[dunson]

stoi, I think going back and recycling torrents is the only way to do it, unless you create a section just for those recycled torrents; I know I don't go back and download much usually. I think it is a hard thing, because some sites really are good at retention, yours included from my experience and I don't think all sites are really meant to be an archive like that. Idk how else to suggest it but you're certainly trying to fix what you realize is an issue by using the right methods I think.

ps Eargasm is apparently a retard.

[Eargasm]

The torrent ratio requirement = failed. I'm planning on seeding this until I've met the ratio requirement, at the very least. It appears that would be 20:1. It could be years.

Ok i will try to explain this in plain English.

20:1 is not the torrent ratio, it is the ratio of seeders to leechers before you get SP.

so if a torrent has 21 seeders and 1 leecher you get SP.

If it has got 19 seeders and 3 leechers, you do not get SP.

We do not expect everyone to seed every torrent till 20:1 that would just be silly to the extreme.

@kooftspc11

This was not just about BCG, but as usual every thread i ever create about the general torrent protocol comes back to BCG, my initial thread was a general assumption over every tracker, not just us.

OK. So at this time, in utorrent, it says that my actual ratio is 1.1:1

At what exactly point in time does the ratio requirement = passed?

[stoi]

if your torrent on BCG says anything above 1.0 ratio, then you have passed the ratio requirement.

you cannot take what utorrent says as gospel, because you may have got .7 of that ratio with SP, so now you have a 1.7 ratio on that torrent.

You can keep seeding it if you like, but you do not have to if you do not want to.

you can even stop it and come back later when it is needing seeds.

as long as you have a 1 ratio according to the tracker, thats all we ask for, if you do want a 1 ratio according to your client, you will have to upload to leechers.

likewise if you want PU or SPU you have to work at it a bit.

[integral]

^ yeah.

[Eargasm]

blah, I get it now.

the torrent ratio "failure" is actually a good thing in my case.

[crumble6]

You want torrents to stay alive longer, and members want a SP mod that gives a ratio of above 1.00, so why not combine the two?

I'm not sure how much difference it would make really, but you could do something like change the seedpoint mod so that it starts giving a ratio of above 1.00 on torrents that are over 4 weeks old. I know you were discussing something similar to this a while back, but I can't remember what became of that.

A few trackers have picks of the week. If you chose say 10 older torrents per week, and gave members some sort of bonus for leeching on them (not FL, I know you hate it :P) it would probably encourage people. Of course this will only work on those few torrents though, not all the ones on the tracker.

[Hologram]

Hardly anyone downloads what they want anymore. It's all about the numbers for most users.

Totally agree with your statement mate. Every day I see more and more users who are all about reaching on new lvl. Its terrible to be honest.

[stoi]

blah, I get it now.

the torrent ratio "failure" is actually a good thing in my case.

yes, its a good thing for you :)

to the poster above me (well crumble6 someone else beat me lol), torrents do stay alive for ages, its the fact that not many people leech them.

we have 48,000 members

55,000 seeders

and

3,200 leechers

so its either members are just not downloading, or torrents are that fast members are not leechers for long.

[crumble6]

to the poster above me (well crumble6 someone else beat me lol), torrents do stay alive for ages, its the fact that not many people leech them.
Oh yeah, so my suggestion is pretty much useless... I feel stupid now! :P
I'll see if I can think of anythig else, but I'm not a very creative person.

[Eargasm]

Perhaps every time a torrent is snatched it could be bumped ala KG. Or random torrents could be bumped?

[stoi]

1st part of that nah, that would mean the most popular torrents getting bumped all the time, and as we get 2000+ snatches on the newer/better/most hyped games, then i cant see that working.

and we do recycle torrents, i just do not go daft recycling them as some members hate them, we just cant win lol

[hotshot6473]

Perhaps every time a torrent is snatched it could be bumped ala KG. Or random torrents could be bumped?

That system will work perfectly if you just setup a way that things on the first page can no longer be bumped no matter how popular they are. When they hit the second page again they will be bumped if people are still leeching.

[Tokeman]

1st part of that nah, that would mean the most popular torrents getting bumped all the time, and as we get 2000+ snatches on the newer/better/most hyped games, then i cant see that working.

and we do recycle torrents, i just do not go daft recycling them as some members hate them, we just cant win lol

Can't you just add something where users can opt not to see recycled torrents by default? This way most people will see them, except those that choose not to. Then you could up the recycled torrents. I for one, would like to see more recycling going on in all my trackers.

[stoi]

probably lol not sure if it will ever get coded but i dont see why not.

and i may have had a change of heart over that bumping on a new snatch (that does not sound right at all lol) so we will see what happens with that.

[SgtMajor]

bumping on a new snatch (that does not sound right at all lol)

Count me in for some of that! :P

[crumble6]

Hows about a "Members who downloaded this also downloaded" or a "Similar games/torrents" system? Not sure how it would work as every torrent would probably need to be edited to include extra info such as genres, but hey it's an idea.

[danio]

one way is to split the browse section into something like "News" and "Archive", like they have it on SweDVDR.. I don't know the timeframe before they are transferred into the archive section, but atleast it gives you two browse lists. Say for example on BCG you could have a timeframe of for example 1 month in the "new games" section and then they are transferred over.

When i look on SweDVR, the old torrents gets alot and alot of new hits when they are newly transferred because then they are at the top again.

I'm not sure how much this would help in the long run though because very soon, the torrents at the top of the archive will fade away on the later pages anyways.

[integral]

Maybe you should just give uploaders the ability to bump/recycle their own torrents every 3 days or something.

[hotshot6473]

To be honest I think you should consider implementing a few of these things and then weed out the weak links. That way you can see what works.

[shutdk]

Make a script that will sort all active torrents totally random. I don't think that's even hard to code, is it?

[DarkLured]

For most trackers, I rarely go past the first page, though I also have torrents per page" set to 100 wherever possible so I can see a good selection. On general/0-day trackers like TL, this is all that is really required for me to keep up with what's available. For other sites, I like to use "top 10" features when they're offered (e.g., Waffles, What, TB), and for sites I don't visit too often (e.g., KG, CG) I'll sometimes just sort by seeders to see what's been popular.

As for bringing attention to older torrents, you could do some twist on KG's bumping system. KG bumps unseeded torrents of a certain age and seems to bump others as well (but not sure how the others are picked).

[Cradle]

Simple

Split the browse torrents page up into 'New' (Say anything upped within the past month) and Archive (everything else_.

Keep the New page sorted by date up upload, but in the archive section have the torrents sorted completely randomly, so if you refresh the browse page you'll get a new page 1.

Keeps the people wanting only the newest stuff happy, and the people just looking for something random to download also happy.

[hotshot6473]

If a game is bad noone is going to download it and therefore there wont be any seeders. Some things are just poorly made and arnt worth the bandwith