Electrician help needed.

[100%]

Boiler short circuit problem.

Our boiler has randomly been popping the main fuse box over the last couple of months.
As of today, if i plug in the cable from the boiler into any socket around the house (i used extension cord), the main fuse box pops.

The electrical cable from the boiler is in not in any way visibly damaged.

Our fuse box pops if there is an earth problem.

I apologize for amateur use of electrical lingo.
hence
I tried google but can not find the right words to find a solution.

Is there a simple solution or do we have to buy a whole bloody new boiler? (cash burn)


Warm water is kind of important.

[kippertoad]

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/

[JPaul]

Tesco is a spark, PM him.

[tesco]

edit: Does it pop straight away or does it take a few seconds to minutes, or happen at a random time?
Also when you plug in the cord do you see any sparks? If you do then the cord is likely shorted, if not then nothing is shorted but the boiler is using a higher amperage than it's supposed to which probably means it's broken...

You could try running it on a larger circuit... For example if it's on a 15amp circuit try plugging it into a 20amp (if you have that anywhere in the house) or run a new circuit for it (make sure you use the correct wire size fr the breaker/fuse you use).

This is only a temporary solution.

[tesco]

Uhh, wait a second, is a boiler a kettle or the thing that you use to heat your whole house's water? :lol:

[100%]

i get camera, so you can see and guide

[tesco]

read my edit ^

[100%]

edit: Does it pop straight away or does it take a few seconds to minutes,

it pops straight away


or happen at a random time?

it used to




Also when you plug in the cord do you see any sparks?


no



You could try running it on a larger circuit...

i tried all the different ones, they all have the same amount of power - 16amps / 2.5 mm



sexy beast
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/zedaxax/1-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/zedaxax/2-1.jpg

[100%]

I will try by connecting a new cord.

[Something Else]

It sounds like there is too many things plugged in on the circuit.

At my work, the same happens when there is one too many things plugged in.

Clearly tesco knows better than me tho'

I do my best :emo:

[Alien5]

Cut the Blue wire :pinch:

[JPaul]

I know nothing about electricals so I'm confident in saying that there's a short, leading to a lower resistance than there should be and therefore a higher current. This is causing the circuit breaker to deploy in order to avoid your house burning down.

In short (see what I did there) the element needs replaced.

[JPaul]

I made all of that up btw.

[j2k4]

I'd think a 16-amp circuit would be marginal for an electric water heater to begin with.

That said, the heater ought to be on it's own circuit with no other draw.

The heater also appears to be an antique.

I expect it's fucked.

You should artfully exploit the virtues of grubbiness in order to procure fundage for a replacement. :whistling

[tesco]

What is the rating on the boiler? (amps)

It looks like you can replace the element rather than having to replace the whole boiler.
Should save you a lot of money...

[Skweeky]

Funny, the same happened to us last week. Turned out the boiler was tripping itself because the pressure inside was up too high. Have you checked if the boiler is at all the right settings?

[clocker]

Hot water is for sissies.
Go green (during winter, more likely "blue"), reduce your carbon footprint and use cold water for everything.

The pandas will thank you.

[JPaul]

That said, the heater ought to be on it's own circuit...



I thought that as well.

[tesco]

I will try by connecting a new cord.
No update, I hope he didn't gho "zzzzzz":mellow:

[JPaul]

:lol::harsh:

Red to black, black to red and blew to fuck.

[Alien5]

Warm water & electricity don't mix. :fear:

[j2k4]

That said, the heater ought to be on it's own circuit...



I thought that as well.

Great minds, blah, blah, blah...:dabs:

[tesco]

That said, the heater ought to be on it's own circuit...



I thought that as well.
I assumed that but maybe it was a bad idea to.

100% make sure you're plugging it into circuits that either have nothing on them or unplug everything from it and turn off all the lights.;)

[Proper Bo]

Get an extension cord and plug it in at a neighbour's house, obviousment.

Just consider it similar to something like stealing their wifi.

[JPaul]

Genious.

[Proper Bo]

Stealing wifi is orsum, it was a right bastard to try and hide an ethernet cable coming from the neighbour's house before he got a wireless router, like.

[tesco]

:glag:

[JPaul]

I steal it sometimes just because it would be wrong not to.

[Barbarossa]

Stealing wifi is orsum, it was a right bastard to try and hide an ethernet cable coming from the neighbour's house before he got a wireless router, like.

I read that as "stealing a wife" for some reason :eyebrows:

[Smith]

By code the heater should be on its own circuit, wired with number 10 wire. If it says it uses 16 amps when running then you should be using a 20 amp plug with a 20 amp breaker. ( I havnt gone to trade school yet but i know theres some sort of de-rating factor involved in it. Something like, you need 40% more capacity than what it says...) Put a ohm meter on the cord going to the plug and let it run, see what its really drawing. It may say 16 amps when running but when an electric motor starts up it uses more.

[viper]

buy another one... is reay cheap ;)

[thewizeard]

..you could also try a test between the earth and the live leading to thermostat using an ohm-meter ( with the mains off!) If you notice a "leak to earth," the heating element could be corroded and letting in a little water.. you might need to replace it.

The very best yoiu could do would be to replace it with a smaller boiler and preferably a high-rendiment gas fired installation.
To be absolutely honest, it looks an extremely dangerous installation and should be repaired by a qualified electrician before you use it again.

[lynx]

That boiler is rated at 2kW, it isn't an inductive load, so at 230V it uses about 8.7A which is nothing spectacular and certainly does not require a specialised circuit. My electric kettle uses more power than that.

All that information is on the plate on the side of the boiler if anyone wants to check.

With wiring as simple as that looks to be, there are really only 3 places where the fault can lie.

In the wiring itself
In the thermostat (if that's what the wires join to)
In the heating element (the part held in by the 4 studs).

My bet is also on the heating element, corrosion would fit in with the description of random failures in the first instance followed by instant failure now. The heating element is a standard 2-stage element, with both stages wired in parallel.

You can easily check if it is the heating element, unscrew the 3 black wires and bend them out of the way. Now plug the boiler in as before. If the circuit does not pop then the fault is in the element, if it pops then the fault is in the wiring or the thermostat.

None of those parts should be particularly expensive to replace. A standard heating element costs about £20 here, it depends whether that's a standard one or a special unit for that boiler. A qualified heating engineer should be able to replace that in under half an hour, it's just 4 nuts for the element, 2 screws for the wires and a new gasket.

[100%]

I am still alive.

I tried what lynx said and it is the heating element.

you can simply slide in and out the heating element.

Getting an electrician over tomorrow.

Thanks for your input and am impressed with all your hidden knowledge.

[enoughfakefiles]

I am still alive.

I tried what lynx said and it is the heating element.

you can simply slide in and out the heating element.

Getting an electrician over tomorrow.

Thanks for your input and am impressed with all your hidden knowledge.

I was going to say that.

True story.

[JPaul]

That boiler is rated at 2kW, it isn't an inductive load, so at 230V it uses about 8.7A

Just one small point, the leccy at his gaff might not be 230V depending on where he is. So it could be like 18.2A or something else.

[lynx]

That boiler is rated at 2kW, it isn't an inductive load, so at 230V it uses about 8.7A

Just one small point, the leccy at his gaff might not be 230V depending on where he is. So it could be like 18.2A or something else.
Except it says 230V on the plate.

Mind you, that could be why it's gone faulty.

[JPaul]

:lol:

[100%]

New heating element installed. (slide it in and connect cables)
300kr
+
1000kr electrician

Apart from the occasional electrical shocks you get when you touch any of the faucets, and the smell of melting glava, it is working great.

I wish...

Paid 10000kr today :pinch: after heavy argumentation with she who wears the pants, and has last word.
Hence new boiler installed.

We smell better though.

[tesco]

By code the heater should be on its own circuit, wired with number 10 wire. If it says it uses 16 amps when running then you should be using a 20 amp plug with a 20 amp breaker. ( I havnt gone to trade school yet but i know theres some sort of de-rating factor involved in it. Something like, you need 40% more capacity than what it says...) Put a ohm meter on the cord going to the plug and let it run, see what its really drawing. It may say 16 amps when running but when an electric motor starts up it uses more.
You fill a circuit to 80% of it's rating...
That's canadian electrical code anyway, who knows what his local code is....

[Proper Bo]

Ewe have electricity there now?:O

[Smith]

By code the heater should be on its own circuit, wired with number 10 wire. If it says it uses 16 amps when running then you should be using a 20 amp plug with a 20 amp breaker. ( I havnt gone to trade school yet but i know theres some sort of de-rating factor involved in it. Something like, you need 40% more capacity than what it says...) Put a ohm meter on the cord going to the plug and let it run, see what its really drawing. It may say 16 amps when running but when an electric motor starts up it uses more.
You fill a circuit to 80% of it's rating...
That's canadian electrical code anyway, who knows what his local code is....

Yeah I was asking my foreman today what the deal was with that, was going to post it.

How far along are you rossco?

[Skweeky]

Tesco is pregnant? :o

[enoughfakefiles]

Tesco is pregnant? :o

Tesco's a burd :O:O