This is a surprising story...

[j2k4]

...considering the dems foreswear cheating.

At least they do until they are caught red-handed.

Imagine...a government-funded voter-registration organization, run exclusively by democrats, for democrats.

Since Obama and ACORN go way, way, back, I wonder how this fits into his "change and hope" spiel.

BTW-

This story only recounts events in Nevada; there are similar investigations taking place in (I think) twelve other "battleground" states.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/07/acorn_nevada_offices_raided.html

[clocker]

Good.
I wonder if the Dems can illegally register voters faster than the Repubs can illegally disenfranchise em?

[devilsadvocate]

As noted in the report you linked to Acorn had been proactive in trying to prevent fraudulent registration. Obviously they needed to try harder and perhaps take potential employee vetting a little more seriously.


For Immediate Release: October 7, 2008 ACORN Statement from Bertha Lewis, Interim Chief Organizer, on Incident in Las Vegas:
"Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have review all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations.
For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual.
Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 "problem application packages," which involved 33 former canvassers.
On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29.
Today's raid by the Secretary of State's Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls."

[j2k4]

As noted in the report you linked to Acorn had been proactive in trying to prevent fraudulent registration. Obviously they needed to try harder and perhaps take potential employee vetting a little more seriously.


For Immediate Release: October 7, 2008 ACORN Statement from Bertha Lewis, Interim Chief Organizer, on Incident in Las Vegas:
"Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have review all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations.
For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual.
Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 "problem application packages," which involved 33 former canvassers.
On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29.
Today's raid by the Secretary of State's Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls."

So, then.

Saying you are serious about fraudulent registration is sufficient to avoid blame, even while fraud is rampant.

Reminds me of our current situation with the banks, et al, and Wall Street.

Clocker-

Republican "efforts" to disenfranchise dem voters are, by and large, anecdotal liberal lore, nothing more.

Bush won Florida; even the dems who continued to count the votes after the court refused to sanction them admitted it about eight months later.

If disenfranchisement had been an issue of any substance whatsoever it is safe to assume the dems would have several republican scalps on permanent display.

Fact.

[clocker]

Why do you assume I'm referring to the 2000 election?
Nothing anecdotal about Repub efforts in Michigan- LAST MONTH!- to disqualify voters based on foreclosure lists.
Nothing anecdotal about Virginia Repubs sending flyers to Virginia Tech students telling them if they vote they may lose their scholarships, dependent status or insurance coverage.
Oh, that was last month also.

Nothing anecdotal or "lorish" about either example.

[devilsadvocate]

So, then.

Saying you are serious about fraudulent registration is sufficient to avoid blame, even while fraud is rampant.




While disturbing hardly rampant. The Nevada office had something like 7-800 canvassers and reported 33 themselves. Of the 33 they reported information for only 15 was subpoenaed and if you dig into the story it seems the problem was employment fraud, along the lines of being paid to deliver leaflets and instead dumping them in a ditch, except these people were making up names and addresses which is a tad more serious.

Hopefully the investigation will be swift and any guilty people punished.

I know you want to make political mischief with this and suggest that ACORN officials were complicit in the fraudulent canvasser's actions and by default the democratic party because they do only register democrats after all:whistling, but much like Palin's troopergate investigation, the pointing finger doesn't equal guilt.

Had they not reported the issues to the relevant authority and fired the offenders then perhaps your case would be stronger. If however the investigation uncovers wrongdoing on their part then screw them.

I've already laid blame with their applicant processing. Other than that they appear to be at the same mercy from the behavior of employees as any other employer.

[j2k4]

So, then.

Saying you are serious about fraudulent registration is sufficient to avoid blame, even while fraud is rampant.




While disturbing hardly rampant. The Nevada office had something like 7-800 canvassers and reported 33 themselves. Of the 33 they reported information for only 15 was subpoenaed and if you dig into the story it seems the problem was employment fraud, along the lines of being paid to deliver leaflets and instead dumping them in a ditch, except these people were making up names and addresses which is a tad more serious.

Hopefully the investigation will be swift and any guilty people punished.

I know you want to make political mischief with this and suggest that ACORN officials were complicit in the fraudulent canvasser's actions and by default the democratic party because they do only register democrats after all:whistling, but much like Palin's troopergate investigation, the pointing finger doesn't equal guilt.

Had they not reported the issues to the relevant authority and fired the offenders then perhaps your case would be stronger. If however the investigation uncovers wrongdoing on their part then screw them.

I've already laid blame with their applicant processing. Other than that they appear to be at the same mercy from the behavior of employees as any other employer.

That's rich.

I take note of political mischief, and you accuse me of political mischief for doing so.

An old and revered liberal tactic.

[j2k4]

Why do you assume I'm referring to the 2000 election?
Nothing anecdotal about Repub efforts in Michigan- LAST MONTH!- to disqualify voters based on foreclosure lists.
Nothing anecdotal about Virginia Repubs sending flyers to Virginia Tech students telling them if they vote they may lose their scholarships, dependent status or insurance coverage.
Oh, that was last month also.

Nothing anecdotal or "lorish" about either example.

Links, please. :)

[clocker]

http://michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote

http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/stopping-students-from-voting/

(Sorry, not on my PC ATM and this one is acting wonky re:links).

[devilsadvocate]

That's rich.

I take note of political mischief, and you accuse me of political mischief for doing so.

An old and revered liberal tactic.

I submit for evidence your original post.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/p-this-surprising-story-post2995750/postcount1 (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../p-this-surprising-story-post2995750/postcount1)

[devilsadvocate]

I'm more worried about this

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/us/politics/09voting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

I absolutely oppose anyone not entitled to vote from casting a vote. But removing even one eligible vote is unacceptable.

[j2k4]

http://michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote

http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/stopping-students-from-voting/

(Sorry, not on my PC ATM and this one is acting wonky re:links).

I'll be back for more, later, but in response to your Michigan Messenger link, how about this?

http://migop.blogs.com/blog/2008/09/liberal-blog-re.html

And this?

http://www.outsidelansing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=283

There's much, much more...

[devilsadvocate]

Probably better to post a link from a non partisan source

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/are_the_republicans_really_trying_to_keep.html

[j2k4]

Would it be partisan of me to point out that the investigation in Nevada has been instigated by the Democrat Attorney General, whom, I will add, is demonstrating a forthrightness and integrity seldom witnessed in such matters. :whistling

[devilsadvocate]

Would it be partisan of me to point out that the investigation in Nevada has been instigated by the Democrat Attorney General, whom, I will add, is demonstrating a forthrightness and integrity seldom witnessed in such matters. :whistling

Wasn't that in the original story?

What's your point?

I would argue that he is a little on the late side given that ACORN had reported and supplied evidence some time ago.


I posted the factcheck link because it removes any accusation of bias.

[j2k4]

Would it be partisan of me to point out that the investigation in Nevada has been instigated by the Democrat Attorney General, whom, I will add, is demonstrating a forthrightness and integrity seldom witnessed in such matters. :whistling

Wasn't that in the original story?

What's your point?

I would argue that he is a little on the late side given that ACORN had reported and supplied evidence some time ago.

The fact of party affiliation has bearing on the question of bias, I think you are bound to agree(though perhaps not, considering it's you).

BTW-

The AG is a she, not a he.

[devilsadvocate]

Okay I was talking about non partisan reporting of facts in the story as being more reliable when it came to the foreclosed home list story. It appears you jumped back and are talking about partisan led investigations. BTW as it stands ACORN is not accused of any wrongdoing, they are investigating the canvassers.

But I'm still wondering where you are going with the partisan thing when it's a democrat Ag investigating what you call a democrat orginisation.


I think the AG may be engaging in a bit of grandstanding with the raid method. Considering ACORN was not only cooperating, they were the ones pushing for an investigation, I can't see any reason why they couldn't have just asked for access to the records.

[j2k4]

Okay I was talking about non partisan reporting of facts in the story as being more reliable when it came to the foreclosed home list story. It appears you jumped back and are talking about partisan led investigations. BTW as it stands ACORN is not accused of any wrongdoing, they are investigating the canvassers.

I am participating in a thread in the fashion I please; if you wish to direct the flow of a thread, start one of your own, or keep up.

I mentioned the Nevada/dem AG, factoid because I find it interesting - am I to ask permission before doing so?

BTW-

How do you divorce the actions of ACORN's canvassers from ACORN proper?


But I'm still wondering where you are going with the partisan thing when it's a democrat Ag investigating what you call a democrat orginisation.

Individual integrity allows this dem AG to investigate ACORN, the dem organization.

It's just that easy.


I think the AG may be engaging in a bit of grandstanding with the raid method. Considering ACORN was not only cooperating, they were the ones pushing for an investigation, I can't see any reason why they couldn't have just asked for access to the records.

ACORN is being investigated in a number of states.

Asking to be investigated in one state is not a "blanket" arrangement.

BTW-

If a court disallows some/all of ACORN's registrations for suspicion of fraud, would you call that disenfranchisement?

If so, tell me why.

[devilsadvocate]

I am participating in a thread in the fashion I please; if you wish to direct the flow of a thread, start one of your own, or keep up.
Order forgive following for me, woman like conversation it's with yesterdays up brings subject the having a a who from conversation context without discussion in today
I mentioned the Nevada/dem AG, factoid because I find it interesting - am I to ask permission before doing so?
All you had to do is say that, no you don't have to ask but do I have to ask if I wish to ask a question about it?
BTW-

How do you divorce the actions of ACORN's canvassers from ACORN proper?
I thought I had already answered that


I've already laid blame with their applicant processing. Other than that they appear to be at the same mercy from the behavior of employees as any other employer
But I'm still wondering where you are going with the partisan thing when it's a democrat Ag investigating what you call a democrat orginisation.


Individual integrity allows this dem AG to investigate ACORN, the dem organization.

It's just that easy.
I'm not asking about integrity of the AG, the question came from you asking if it would be partisan of you to point out the AG is a democrat.

I think the AG may be engaging in a bit of grandstanding with the raid method. Considering ACORN was not only cooperating, they were the ones pushing for an investigation, I can't see any reason why they couldn't have just asked for access to the records.

ACORN is being investigated in a number of states.

Asking to be investigated in one state is not a "blanket" arrangement.
Thus far I've only been posting about the original article, at this time I have no information about any other investigations. I will point out again that being investigated doesn't mean anything wrong was actually done. There are many investigations going on.
BTW-

If a court disallows some/all of ACORN's registrations for suspicion of fraud, would you call that disenfranchisement?

If so, tell me why.
First off I wouldn't be happy about a court arbitrarily disallowing registrations no matter who collected them. County elections departments should be verifying registrations, not a judge en mass.

In answer

If a court disallows all then yes, the investigation is into a tiny problem compared to the bulk of the work.

If a court disallows even one eligible citizen from voting then yes. It may just be a single disenfranchisement but it still counts

If it only disqualifies phony registrations and the ruling allows for any eligible voter lumped in wrongly to have their vote counted then no.

Do you think this close to the election all the registrations should be disqualified by a court?

[j2k4]

I am participating in a thread in the fashion I please; if you wish to direct the flow of a thread, start one of your own, or keep up.
Order forgive following for me, woman like conversation it's with yesterdays up brings subject the having a a who from conversation context without discussion in today
I mentioned the Nevada/dem AG, factoid because I find it interesting - am I to ask permission before doing so?
All you had to do is say that, no you don't have to ask but do I have to ask if I wish to ask a question about it?
BTW-

How do you divorce the actions of ACORN's canvassers from ACORN proper?
I thought I had already answered that

But I'm still wondering where you are going with the partisan thing when it's a democrat Ag investigating what you call a democrat orginisation.


Individual integrity allows this dem AG to investigate ACORN, the dem organization.

It's just that easy.
I'm not asking about integrity of the AG, the question came from you asking if it would be partisan of you to point out the AG is a democrat.

I think the AG may be engaging in a bit of grandstanding with the raid method. Considering ACORN was not only cooperating, they were the ones pushing for an investigation, I can't see any reason why they couldn't have just asked for access to the records.

ACORN is being investigated in a number of states.

Asking to be investigated in one state is not a "blanket" arrangement.
Thus far I've only been posting about the original article, at this time I have no information about any other investigations. I will point out again that being investigated doesn't mean anything wrong was actually done. There are many investigations going on.
BTW-

If a court disallows some/all of ACORN's registrations for suspicion of fraud, would you call that disenfranchisement?

If so, tell me why.
First off I wouldn't be happy about a court arbitrarily disallowing registrations no matter who collected them. County elections departments should be verifying registrations, not a judge en mass.

In answer

If a court disallows all then yes, the investigation is into a tiny problem compared to the bulk of the work.

If a court disallows even one eligible citizen from voting then yes. It may just be a single disenfranchisement but it still counts

If it only disqualifies phony registrations and the ruling allows for any eligible voter lumped in wrongly to have their vote counted then no.

Do you think this close to the election all the registrations should be disqualified by a court?

Problem is, we're up against it, time-wise, which I think was part of ACORN's strategy.

Do you think it better to allow several thousand bogus registrations rather than disallow a single one?

Sure seems that way.

[devilsadvocate]

Problem is, we're up against it, time-wise, which I think was part of ACORN's strategy.

This is just a conspiracy 911 truther, the commies are coming, the democrats are going to take your gun away, give it to an illegal alien and shoot your bible with it type theory.

This isn't a political statement , it's a not buying into a paranoid unsubstantiated talking point conspiracy theory statement.




Do you think it better to allow several thousand bogus registrations rather than disallow a single one?

Sure seems that way.
I don't think any bogus registrations should be allowed. I don't think eligible registrations should be disallowed. County election departments should be verifying registrations.



Please answer my question with an answer, I was good enough to answer yours.
Do you think this close to the election all the registrations collected by ACORN should be disqualified by a court?

BTW. It appears most states have laws requiring voter registration groups to hand in ALL registration forms collected, even if the group suspects or knows it's a fake.

[j2k4]

Do you think it better to allow several thousand bogus registrations rather than disallow a single one?

I don't think any bogus registrations should be allowed. I don't think eligible registrations should be disallowed. County election departments should be verifying registrations.

And if those to whom you charge with the task of verification beg off on account of time constraints?


Please answer my question with an answer, I was good enough to answer yours.
Do you think this close to the election all the registrations collected by ACORN should be disqualified by a court?

BTW. It appears most states have laws requiring voter registration groups to hand in ALL registration forms collected, even if the group suspects or knows it's a fake.

That last bears on my question.

Do you count some, or all?

Let's say you have 50,000 registrations to verify, and time to do only half of them...what's your solution?

[devilsadvocate]

And if those to whom you charge with the task of verification beg off on account of time constraints?

It's not me charging them with this task, that is their task. If they find themselves overwhelmed then they need to find a solution so the can cope.

Remember that the apparent problem is canvassers returning phony registrations, so it's registration fraud NOT voter fraud. The is no evidence that anyone has voted using a fraudulently registered name. Heck even in the court cases where the voter ID laws were challenged the states couldn't offer any evidence of voter fraud.





Please answer my question with an answer, I was good enough to answer yours.
Do you think this close to the election all the registrations collected by ACORN should be disqualified by a court?

BTW. It appears most states have laws requiring voter registration groups to hand in ALL registration forms collected, even if the group suspects or knows it's a fake.

That last bears on my question.

Do you count some, or all?

Let's say you have 50,000 registrations to verify, and time to do only half of them...what's your solution?
Why won't you answer a simple question?
Do you think this close to the election all the registrations collected by ACORN should be disqualified by a court?

[j2k4]

It's not me charging them with this task, that is their task. If they find themselves overwhelmed then they need to find a solution so the can cope.

Remember that the apparent problem is canvassers returning phony registrations, so it's registration fraud NOT voter fraud. The is no evidence that anyone has voted using a fraudulently registered name. Heck even in the court cases where the voter ID laws were challenged the states couldn't offer any evidence of voter fraud.





Please answer my question with an answer, I was good enough to answer yours.
Do you think this close to the election all the registrations collected by ACORN should be disqualified by a court?

BTW. It appears most states have laws requiring voter registration groups to hand in ALL registration forms collected, even if the group suspects or knows it's a fake.

That last bears on my question.

Do you count some, or all?

Let's say you have 50,000 registrations to verify, and time to do only half of them...what's your solution?
Why won't you answer a simple question?
Do you think this close to the election all the registrations collected by ACORN should be disqualified by a court?

Only duly verified registrants should be allowed to vote.

The registrations (however many that may be) that cannot be verified due to time constraints should be shit-canned.

Period.

There's your answer.

What's YOUR answer?

[devilsadvocate]

Only duly verified registrants should be allowed to vote.

The registrations (however many that may be) that cannot be verified due to time constraints should be shit-canned.

Period.

There's your answer.

So your answer is no the courts should not reject all registrations from ACORN?

You are however for disenfranchising people who are eligible to vote and had their registration applications in before the deadline. Sorry but I see this time constraint bullshit as an excuse for not doing their job, not a reason they couldn't.

This isn't about party. This is about ensuring that every eligible voter that played by the rules and got their registration, no matter if they did it themselves or via a registration drive, in on time not only gets to vote but their vote is counted.



What's YOUR answer?

I've already given it http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/p-this-surprising-story-post2997845/postcount19

[j2k4]

So your answer is no the courts should not reject all registrations from ACORN?

You are however for disenfranchising people who are eligible to vote and had their registration applications in before the deadline. Sorry but I see this time constraint bullshit as an excuse for not doing their job, not a reason they couldn't.

This isn't about party. This is about ensuring that every eligible voter that played by the rules and got their registration, no matter if they did it themselves or via a registration drive, in on time not only gets to vote but their vote is counted.

Sorry, that doesn't cut it.

Fraudulent registrations tainting legitimate ones might best be regarded (this time around, anyway) as a lesson learned, or perhaps ACORN should have a republican arm to cheat right along with the democrat one.

Better yet, abolish the whole thing; why should the government function as a default arm of the DNC?

You are sanctioning cheating, but that figures, you being a lib, and all.



What's YOUR answer?

I've already given it http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/p-this-surprising-story-post2997845/postcount19

You cannot separate an agency from the actions of it's functionaries, as, absent the functionaries, the agency doesn't exist.

In any case, situations such as these are usually dealt with by way of exclusion, and additional penalties are often levied.

With regard to ACORN, the only asset they have is their funding, which should be eliminated.

BTW-

Don't bother anymore with your "answer the question" crap; it doesn't wash.

[clocker]

I think the biggest difference between the ACORN situation and traditional forms of Republican favored voter fraud is that the ACORN mess doesn't result in any extra votes- you can register a person multiple times (which is the assertion here) but they can still only cast one ballot.
Alternatively, you can register a fictitious character like Mickey Mouse (who, ironically, would probably vote Republican), but he's not going to show up to vote, so, in effect, you have swollen registration lists but no extra votes.

Much more insidious- and effective- is to lower the number of cast ballots by refusing to allow real people to vote, by hook or by crook.
Targeting groups most like to vote for the opposition and refusing them the ballot- or attempting to scare them away- doesn't help your side, rather, the goal is to hurt the opposition.

[devilsadvocate]

So then. Me saying the County elections departments should do their job and stop making excuses (this means weeding out fraudulent registrations and clearing eligible ones) so ALL eligible voters that met the deadline get to vote means I sanction cheating.

Well that's just dandy.

[j2k4]

I think the biggest difference between the ACORN situation and traditional forms of Republican favored voter fraud is that the ACORN mess doesn't result in any extra votes- you can register a person multiple times (which is the assertion here) but they can still only cast one ballot.
Alternatively, you can register a fictitious character like Mickey Mouse (who, ironically, would probably vote Republican), but he's not going to show up to vote, so, in effect, you have swollen registration lists but no extra votes.

Wrong.

Multiple applications fit perfectly the oft-repeated scenario wherein the Dems fill busses with these newly discovered "voters" and feed them coffee, soda, and pastries while driving them from precinct to precinct to vote in every one, because the system cannot root out fraudulent votes that late in the game.

The next stop is the Supreme Court, where the cry is "DISENFRANCHISEMENT!"

That's it, in a nutshell.

That Obama hails from the city that (as has been thoroughly demonstrated and documented) put JFK in the White House through the cunning use of the "dead" vote should not be lost on those who are paying proper attention.

[j2k4]

So then. Me saying the County elections departments should do their job and stop making excuses (this means weeding out fraudulent registrations and clearing eligible ones) so ALL eligible voters that met the deadline get to vote means I sanction cheating.

Well that's just dandy.

The way you're saying it?

Absolutely.

BTW-

I notice you didn't phrase that as a question.

You're learning.

[clocker]

That Obama hails from the city that (as has been thoroughly demonstrated and documented) put JFK in the White House through the cunning use of the "dead" vote should not be lost on those who are paying proper attention.
I see, so now simply hailing from Chicago is proof enough of complicity for you, eh?
The tarring brush has grown so wide and heavy that even your Bunyonesque shoulders must tire lifting it.

BTW, Alaska is becoming famous for Republican corruption...indeed, isn't Ted Stevens in a bit of trouble right now?
Palin supported Stevens and consorted with him freely, ergo Palin is corrupt and ethically comprimised.

Gee, I see the attraction of your methods...it's so easy.

[Busyman]

I think the biggest difference between the ACORN situation and traditional forms of Republican favored voter fraud is that the ACORN mess doesn't result in any extra votes- you can register a person multiple times (which is the assertion here) but they can still only cast one ballot.
Alternatively, you can register a fictitious character like Mickey Mouse (who, ironically, would probably vote Republican), but he's not going to show up to vote, so, in effect, you have swollen registration lists but no extra votes.

Wrong.

Multiple applications fit perfectly the oft-repeated scenario wherein the Dems fill busses with these newly discovered "voters" and feed them coffee, soda, and pastries while driving them from precinct to precinct to vote in every one, because the system cannot root out fraudulent votes that late in the game.

The next stop is the Supreme Court, where the cry is "DISENFRANCHISEMENT!"

That's it, in a nutshell.

That Obama hails from the city that (as has been thoroughly demonstrated and documented) put JFK in the White House through the cunning use of the "dead" vote should not be lost on those who are paying proper attention.

Uh huh and what does that really have to do with Obama?

[clocker]

Wrong.

Multiple applications fit perfectly the oft-repeated scenario wherein the Dems fill busses with these newly discovered "voters" and feed them coffee, soda, and pastries while driving them from precinct to precinct to vote in every one, because the system cannot root out fraudulent votes that late in the game.

The next stop is the Supreme Court, where the cry is "DISENFRANCHISEMENT!"

That's it, in a nutshell.

That Obama hails from the city that (as has been thoroughly demonstrated and documented) put JFK in the White House through the cunning use of the "dead" vote should not be lost on those who are paying proper attention.
Gee, too bad the Republicans aren't smart enough to do this...it sounds so easy.
Although, given the collapse of Wall Street and the mortgage industry, there should be plenty of able bodied and idle- not to mention well dressed- Masters of the Universe available, willing and eager to work for doughnuts and coffee.

Oops, seems like the Dems have chartered all the busses.
You'll have to use Mercedes and Lexus sedans.

[j2k4]

Wrong.

Multiple applications fit perfectly the oft-repeated scenario wherein the Dems fill busses with these newly discovered "voters" and feed them coffee, soda, and pastries while driving them from precinct to precinct to vote in every one, because the system cannot root out fraudulent votes that late in the game.

The next stop is the Supreme Court, where the cry is "DISENFRANCHISEMENT!"

That's it, in a nutshell.

That Obama hails from the city that (as has been thoroughly demonstrated and documented) put JFK in the White House through the cunning use of the "dead" vote should not be lost on those who are paying proper attention.

Uh huh and what does that really have to do with Obama?

What does what really have to do with Obama?

ACORN?

Disenfranchisement?

Chicago?

JFK?

[clocker]

Wasn't Obama on the grassy knoll?

[Busyman]

Uh huh and what does that really have to do with Obama?

What does what really have to do with Obama?

ACORN?

Disenfranchisement?

Chicago?

JFK?

You know, all the part after, you....you know, mentioned Obama.

So Obama is tarred cuz he's outta Chi-town now? Puh-leaze....

[Busyman]

Wasn't Obama on the grassy knoll?

Oh so that's what j2 was referring to.

Obama was the second shooter using a magic bullet when he was 2 years old.

He probably did the deed and jumped back into his stroller.

Six years later he then went on to plan bombings with the Ayers Gang.

[clocker]

And now he drives buses full of dead people, reanimated just to vote against McCain.

They all volunteered, BTW.

[j2k4]

Quickly, both of you:

Did Bush win Florida in 2000 or not?

Simple question.

[Busyman]

Quickly, both of you:

Did Bush win Florida in 2000 or not?

Simple question.

Yes. That's why we call him a 2-term President and stuff.

Also the Denver Broncos won the game against the San Diego Chargers this year, Julio Caesar Chavez won the fight against Meldrick Taylor, and Marion Jones won 3 gold medals and 2 bronze in 2000.

[Busyman]

And now he drives buses full of dead people, reanimated just to vote against McCain.

They all volunteered, BTW.

:lol:


Obama, The Zombie Registrar

[j2k4]

[QUOTE=j2k4;3000825]Quickly, both of you:

Did Bush win Florida in 2000 or not?

Simple question.


Yes.

:yup:


That's why we call him a 2-term President and stuff.

:huh:

He won his second term in 2000?


Also the Denver Broncos won the game against the San Diego Chargers this year, Julio Caesar Chavez won the fight against Meldrick Taylor, and Marion Jones won 3 gold medals and 2 bronze in 2000.

Gee whiz, even the partisan dems who finished counting the votes in Florida said he won.

I guess you're not of the ovine persuasion after all. :whistling

[clocker]

Did Bush win Florida in 2000 or not?


I'm predicting that within twenty years or so the Repubs will find a way to claim that Bush was actually a Democrat and his eight year reign of suckage will somehow be our fault.

[j2k4]

Did Bush win Florida in 2000 or not?


I'm predicting that within twenty years or so the Repubs will find a way to claim that Bush was actually a Democrat and his eight year reign of suckage will somehow be our fault.

That's just mad talk.

BTW-

ACORN trouble in 13 states and counting...:whistling

[Busyman]

[QUOTE=Busyman;3000880]Yes.

:yup:


That's why we call him a 2-term President and stuff.

:huh:

He won his second term in 2000?


Also the Denver Broncos won the game against the San Diego Chargers this year, Julio Caesar Chavez won the fight against Meldrick Taylor, and Marion Jones won 3 gold medals and 2 bronze in 2000.

Gee whiz, even the partisan dems who finished counting the votes in Florida said he won.

I guess you're not of the ovine persuasion after all. :whistling
I don't get where you are going with this.

He did win.he's in his second term now.count backwards.i have the faith in you.

Where's the cunfuzshen?

[Busyman]

Did Bush win Florida in 2000 or not?


I'm predicting that within twenty years or so the Repubs will find a way to claim that Bush was actually a Democrat and his eight year reign of suckage will somehow be our fault.

Did you notice this shit from the Republicans popping up from time to time...

"The Democrats have been in power for the last 2 years. Now look at the shit we are in."

:glag:

[j2k4]

I'm predicting that within twenty years or so the Repubs will find a way to claim that Bush was actually a Democrat and his eight year reign of suckage will somehow be our fault.

Did you notice this shit from the Republicans popping up from time to time...

"The Democrats have been in power for the last 2 years. Now look at the shit we are in."

:glag:

It true, though, isn't it?

The dems take back congress in '06, and gas shoots out of sight.

Coincidence?

I think not.

If you can prove otherwise, feel free.

[j2k4]

:yup:

[QUOTE=Busyman;3000880]That's why we call him a 2-term President and stuff.

:huh:

He won his second term in 2000?


Also the Denver Broncos won the game against the San Diego Chargers this year, Julio Caesar Chavez won the fight against Meldrick Taylor, and Marion Jones won 3 gold medals and 2 bronze in 2000.

Gee whiz, even the partisan dems who finished counting the votes in Florida said he won.

I guess you're not of the ovine persuasion after all. :whistling
I don't get where you are going with this.

He did win.he's in his second term now.count backwards.i have the faith in you.

Where's the cunfuzshen?

No confusion at all, just another of your semantic cluster-fucks.

"Bush won in 2000; that's why we call him a two-term President". :wacko:

[clocker]

The Democrats are responsible for the price of oil?

Jeez, how did you find out?
Someone told you about our secret gas stations and gave you the password, huh?
Crap.

Next thing you know you'll uncover our responsibility for the Holocaust and the Crucifixion and the cat will be totally out of the bag.
Two thousand years of secret world domination gone to hell.

Now I'll have to get a real job.

[j2k4]

The Democrats are responsible for the price of oil?

Jeez, how did you find out?
Someone told you about our secret gas stations and gave you the password, huh?
Crap.

Next thing you know you'll uncover our responsibility for the Holocaust and the Crucifixion and the cat will be totally out of the bag.
Two thousand years of secret world domination gone to hell.

Now I'll have to get a real job.\

Well, if adopt your strategy, we can say anything we want - like anything any of you have had to say about ACORN so far. :whistling

[Busyman]

Did you notice this shit from the Republicans popping up from time to time...

"The Democrats have been in power for the last 2 years. Now look at the shit we are in."

:glag:

It true, though, isn't it?

The dems take back congress in '06, and gas shoots out of sight.

Coincidence?

I think not.

If you can prove otherwise, feel free.

Wow!

:glag:

[Busyman]

:huh:

He won his second term in 2000?


Also the Denver Broncos won the game against the San Diego Chargers this year, Julio Caesar Chavez won the fight against Meldrick Taylor, and Marion Jones won 3 gold medals and 2 bronze in 2000.

Gee whiz, even the partisan dems who finished counting the votes in Florida said he won.

I guess you're not of the ovine persuasion after all. :whistling
I don't get where you are going with this.

He did win.he's in his second term now.count backwards.i have the faith in you.

Where's the cunfuzshen?

No confusion at all, just another of your semantic cluster-fucks.

"Bush won in 2000; that's why we call him a two-term President". :wacko:

If he didn't win then.....we wouldn't call him a 2-term President....now.

Argue dumbass semantics all you want.

You are the one asking dumb questions.

"Did Bush win?"

"Nah, man. Al Gore won and that's why he was President. Bush then beat him in 2004."

:wacko:

[Busyman]

The Democrats are responsible for the price of oil?

Jeez, how did you find out?
Someone told you about our secret gas stations and gave you the password, huh?
Crap.

Next thing you know you'll uncover our responsibility for the Holocaust and the Crucifixion and the cat will be totally out of the bag.
Two thousand years of secret world domination gone to hell.

Now I'll have to get a real job.\

Well, if adopt your strategy, we can say anything we want - like anything any of you have had to say about ACORN so far. :whistling

You mean when
Obama, The Zombie Registrar went around loading up his double-decker to help disenfranchised dead folk have a say in how the country is run by exercising their illegal right to vote?

Nah, we don't say anything we want.....

[clocker]

Well, if adopt your strategy, we can say anything we want - like anything any of you have had to say about ACORN so far. :whistling
I haven't said a word about ACORN so far, and probably won't.

Rove was an excellent teacher.

[devilsadvocate]

Bit of a read, sorry, but it sorts out the hype.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/acorn_accusations.html



ACORN Accusations
October 18, 2008
McCain makes exaggerated claims of "voter fraud." Obama soft-pedals his connections.
Summary
The McCain-Palin campaign accuses ACORN, a community activist group that operates nationwide, of perpetrating "massive voter fraud." It says Obama has “long and deep” ties to the group. We find both claims to be exaggerated. But we also find Obama has understated the extent of his work with the group.



Neither ACORN nor its employees have been found guilty of, or even charged with, casting fraudulent votes. What a McCain-Palin Web ad calls "voter fraud" is actually voter registration fraud. Several ACORN canvassers have been found guilty of faking registration forms and others are being investigated. But the evidence that has surfaced so far shows they faked forms to get paid for work they didn’t do, not to stuff ballot boxes.


Obama’s path has intersected with ACORN on several occasions – more often than he allowed in the final debate.


Analysis
We've received scores of e-mails asking us about Obama's connection to the community activist group Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now, or ACORN. A McCain-Palin ad released on the Web accuses Obama of having ties to the organization, which it says engages in "intimidation tactics," "massive voter fraud" and "pressuring banks to issue risky loans."


Destroying Democracy?


The McCain ad accuses ACORN of "massive voter fraud." In the final presidential debate (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_3.html), John McCain added that ACORN "is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy." Sounds scary, but is it true?


McCain-Palin Web Ad: "ACORN"
http://www.factcheck.org/demos/factcheck/imagefiles/Image/2008_10_17_ACORN/acornthumb.jpg (http://cdn.factcheck.org/video/McCain_ACORN_ad.wmv)


McCain: I'm John McCain and I approve this message.

Announcer: Who is Barack Obama? A man with "a political baptism performed at warp speed." Vast ambition. After college, he moved to Chicago. Became a community organizer. There, Obama met Madeleine Talbot, part of the Chicago branch of ACORN. He was so impressive that he was asked to train the ACORN staff.

What did ACORN in Chicago engage in? Bullying banks. Intimidation tactics. Disruption of business. ACORN forced banks to issue risky home loans. The same types of loans that caused the financial crisis we're in today.

No wonder Obama's campaign is trying to distance him from the group, saying, "Barack Obama Never Organized with ACORN." But Obama's ties to ACORN run long and deep. He taught classes for ACORN. They even endorsed him for President.

But now ACORN is in trouble.

Reporter: There are at least 11 investigations across the country involving thousands of potentially fraudulent ACORN forms.

Announcer: Massive voter fraud. And the Obama campaign paid more than $800,000 to an ACORN front for get out the vote efforts.

Pressuring banks to issue risky loans. Nationwide voter fraud. Barack Obama. Bad judgment. Blind ambition. Too risky for America.
There's no evidence of any such democracy-destroying fraud. Here's what is true: In recent years, ACORN employees have been investigated multiple times for voter registration fraud. ACORN workers have been convicted of submitting false voter registration forms in Colorado Springs in 2005, Kansas City, Mo., in 2006 (http://www.kmbc.com/politics/10214492/detail.html) and King County, Wash., in 2007. ACORN's Las Vegas office was raided (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/07/acorn_nevada_offices_raided.html) by a state criminal investigator on Oct. 7, 2008. ACORN workers are also the subjects of ongoing investigations in Wisconsin, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana. The Indiana investigation started (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/acorn.fraud.claims/index.html) in early October and may involve thousands of fraudulent registration forms.

On Oct. 16 The Associated Press quoted two "senior law enforcement" officials as saying that the FBI is investigating (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hSQRQM34d7S1eOAiEdP7GAxlwf_QD93RUCH80) ACORN seeking "any evidence of a coordinated national scam." The following day the Obama campaign's lawyer, Robert Bauer, sent a seven-page letter (http://rawstory.com/images/other/ObamaJusticeletter.pdf) to the attorney general claiming that federal law enforcement officials were being improperly used to help McCain by suppressing the vote through "unsupported, spurious allegations of vote fraud." He asked that the investigation be transferred to the special prosecutor investigating the U.S. attorney firing scandal. The McCain campaign issued a statement (http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/news/PressReleases/ac134c53-debb-4dd5-8c9a-472597eadd12.htm) in which spokesman Ben Porritt called Bauer's letter "outrageous" and "absurd" and a "heavy handed tactic of attempting to criminalize political discourse."

But so far ACORN itself has not been officially charged with any fraud. Aside from the heated charges and counter-charges, no evidence has yet surfaced to show that the ACORN employees who submitted fraudulent registration forms intended to pave the way for illegal voting. Rather, they were trying to get paid by ACORN for doing no work. Dan Satterberg, the Republican prosecuting attorney in King County, Wash., where the largest ACORN case to date was prosecuted, said (http://www.metrokc.gov/proatty/news/2007/Voter%20Registration%20Statement.htm) that the indicted ACORN employees were shirking responsibility, not plotting election fraud.

Satterberg: [A] joint federal and state investigation has determined that this
scheme was not intended to permit illegal voting.

Instead, the defendants cheated their employer, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (or ACORN), to get paid for work they did not actually perform. ACORN's lax oversight of their own voter registration drive permitted this to happen. ... It was hardly a sophisticated plan: The defendants simply realized that making up names was easier than actually canvassing the streets looking for unregistered voters. ...

appears that the employees of ACORN were not performing the work that they were being paid for, and to some extent, ACORN is a victim of employee theft.
The $8-an-hour employees were charged with providing false information on voter registration forms, and in one case with making a false statement to a public official. Five of the seven who were charged pleaded guilty (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/349896_voterfraud04.html). ACORN was fined for exercising insufficient oversight, but it was not charged with masterminding any kind of deliberate fraud.

ACORN pays canvassers by the hour, not by the form, but it does ask them to meet certain registration goals. In ACORN's Las Vegas office, one employee who admitted to submitting fraudulent registrations said that she did so because she found ACORN's requirement of 20 registrations per day to be too steep to meet, according to an affidavit by a Nevada state criminal investigator. Local news reports at the time also said that some of the ACORN offices under investigation paid bonuses for each registration, or a higher hourly rate to those who brought in more applications. ACORN's deputy political director, Kevin Whelan, denies that this is ACORN policy.


What ACORN Says


In its defense, ACORN says that only a few of its 13,000 paid canvassers turned in any faked forms. "[T]here are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer," the group said in an Oct. 10 statement (http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=22383&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=12340&cHash=ef14f35f55) on its Web site. "Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift."

ACORN also says it cannot simply discard suspicious forms on its own, but is required by law in most states to submit to local election officials all the forms its canvassers bring in. ACORN's Whelan told us that its own legal counsel strongly advises that the group do the same in states that don't explicitly require it, because "only election officials are legally able to determine the validity of a voter registration application." But ACORN says (http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=22383&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=12340&cHash=ef14f35f55) that it first flags all suspicious registrations. Staffers call the phone numbers written on completed registration forms to make sure they're valid and also take note of incomplete or duplicate forms. The group says that it alerts election officials to forms that look fishy when it sends them in.

However, it's not clear whether or not those procedures were followed in Nevada prior to a highly publicized raid (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/07/acorn-vegas-office-raided-voter-fraud-investigation/) by state officials on Oct. 7. According to an affidavit (http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/ACORNAffidavit.pdf) by Colin Hayes, a criminal investigator for the secretary of state's office, a probe began July 2 after the county registrar reported receiving a number of suspicious registration forms from ACORN. Hayes did not state whether or not those suspicious forms had been flagged by ACORN before being turned in. Later, during a July 18 meeting, ACORN's lawyer told local and state officials that the group had identified a number of suspicious registrations and "would be willing to provide such information" for further investigation. On Aug. 7, at the request of the county registrar, ACORN supplied copies of documents related to 33 ACORN workers who had been fired for "suspicious" voter registration activities.

Investigator Hayes followed up, confirmed that many registrations were faked, and found a former ACORN worker who confessed to faking most of her forms. After obtaining a warrant based on the affidavit, state officials seized records and computers. Secretary of State Ross Miller was quoted as saying the faked forms included names from the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.

While ACORN says that such raids are part of "a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression," it is worth noting that in this case, Secretary of State Miller is a Democrat.

Whelan told us that ACORN's national management staff trains local directors and travels extensively to supervise offices, but the 2007 Washington state prosecution makes it clear that quality control is lacking in at least some outposts. Prosecutor Satterberg wrote: "We believe that ACORN’s internal quality control procedures were not just deficient but entirely non-existent when it came to the latter stages of their operation in Tacoma." He fined the group $25,000 for failing to exercise sufficient oversight.

How Common Is Fraud?


Election fraud does exist, but hasn't been shown to be widespread. The [I]New York Times reported (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html) in 2007 that a five-year crackdown on such fraud by the Bush administration's Justice Department had produced 70 convictions at the federal level, including 40 campaign workers or government workers convicted of vote-buying, intimidation or ballot forgery, and 23 cases of multiple voting or voting by ineligible voters. But the Times described these as unconnected incidents and said the Justice Department had turned up no evidence of "any organized effort to skew federal elections."

Bush administration officials have pushed hard to find such evidence, too hard in one case, according to an investigation by the Department of Justice's internal watchdogs, the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) and Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR). Their report into the firing of nine United States attorneys concluded that the "real reason" for the firing of New Mexico's U.S. Attorney David Iglesias was "complaints about Iglesias’s handling of voter fraud and public corruption matters." The complaints included gripes by state Republican Party officials who believed that widespread fraud by Democrats had prevented George Bush from winning the state in the 2000 presidential election. Iglesias launched a task force that worked with the FBI but found that "there was insufficient evidence in any of the cases the Task Force reviewed to support criminal prosecution by the [U.S. Attorney's Office] or state authorities," according to the report of the OIG and OPR. These included cases involving ACORN workers. Republicans charged that Iglesias was showing insufficient rigor in prosecuting the cases.


ACORN and the Housing Crisis


The McCain ad says that ACORN in Chicago engaged in "bullying banks. Intimidation tactics. Disruption of business" and "forced banks to issue risky home loans." In support of these statements, the McCain campaign cites conservative opinion pieces, including a column by Mona Charen (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Mzk4MmVkNzA1NGQ2NGRkZjQ2YjNmYjdlODZkMmQ4N2I=) posted by the National Review Online, titled "Guilty Party: ACORN, Obama and the Mortgage Mess."


It is true that ACORN has led demonstrations on a number of issues nationwide – predatory lending, immigration reform, neighborhood violence, utilities shut-offs, minimum wage increases. Sometimes the group's tactics are confrontational, veering into civil disobedience. For instance, in the late 1980s, ACORN activists in a number of cities, including Chicago, seized abandoned houses and encouraged "squatting" by homeless people, in an attempt to force local governments to salvage abandoned properties and convert them into low-income housing. The targets of ACORN's protests sometimes describe the activists as intractable or even aggressive. Other ACORN protests are less confrontational; Sen. McCain himself spoke (http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/a_lifetime_ago_sen_john.php) at an ACORN rally on illegal immigration in 2006.

It stretches the facts, however, to say that ACORN "forced" banks to make risky loans, though it has certainly applied pressure on banks to make loans to minority and low-income borrowers. ACORN also has worked directly with banks in a joint effort to increase such lending. In Chicago these efforts date back at least to 1992, after a report by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston showed (http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/wp/wp1992/wp92_7.htm) that minorities in that city were two to three times as likely to be denied mortgage loans as white applicants, and that high-income minorities were more likely to be turned down than low-income whites. Chicago ACORN then started a mortgage assistance program, in cooperation with five local banks, to help minority and low-income borrowers get mortgage loans.

The mortgages that ACORN worked out with the banks did have lower underwriting standards than were customary. They allowed a higher percentage of a family's income to go to debt repayment, and counted rent and utility payments, not just credit card payments, as evidence of ability to pay back a loan. The loans were also more forgiving of past credit problems, as long as the recipient was making a proven effort to address them. But ACORN provided loan deals only to people who went through counseling on budget and credit issues. In 1992, First Nationwide Bank Vice President Neal Halleran told the Chicago Tribune: "Transaction by transaction, [loans from the ACORN program] would appear to be performing no worse than our portfolio overall." According to the Tribune, First Nationwide had contacted ACORN to initiate the lending program.

Obama: Burying ACORNs


The ad says that "Obama's ties to ACORN run long and deep" – that he "taught classes" for the group, paid a "front" $800,000 for get-out-the-vote efforts, and was endorsed by ACORN for president. That last one's true – ACORN's political action committee did offer an Obama endorsement (http://72.14.235.104/custom?q=cache:JJeDHUcwhY4J:https://www.acorn.org/index.php%3Fid%3D8539%26tx_ttnews%255Bpointer%255D%3D4%26tx_ttnews%255Btt_news%255D%3D21759%26tx_ttnews%255BbackPid%255D%3D8538%26cHash%3Dff99d11068+obama&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=google-coop). It's also true that Obama has worked with the group in the past. In 1995, Obama helped represent (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/02/20/obama_got_start_in_civil_rights_practice/) ACORN in a successful lawsuit to require the state of Illinois to offer "motor voter" registration at DMV offices. Obama has said (http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/third-presidential-debate.html) that this is his only association with ACORN, but that's not the case – he has had other, though less direct, interactions with the organization. After law school, Obama directed (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/service/) a Chicago registration drive for Project Vote, which works closely with ACORN. And when Obama was on the board of directors of the Woods Fund (http://www.woodsfund.org/about/mission), the foundation gave grants of $75,000 in 2001 (http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org//990pf_pdf_archive/363/363917968/363917968_200112_990PF.pdf) and $70,000 in 2002 (http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org//990pf_pdf_archive/363/363917968/363917968_200212_990PF.pdf) to ACORN's Chicago office. The McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee cite (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-04-2008/0004897846&EDATE=) an additional grant of $45,000 in 2000. The Woods Fund has not responded to our calls about their 2000 grants.

The Obama campaign also paid (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/acorn.fraud.claims/index.html) Citizens Services Inc., a group affiliated with ACORN, more than $800,000 for get-out-the-vote (not voter registration) efforts during the primary election. The nature of CSI's services was initially misrepresented (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/election/s_584284.html) on the Obama campaign's disclosures to the Federal Election Commission, which the campaign describes as an oversight. The Obama campaign says it has not been involved with ACORN during the general election.

As for "teaching classes" for the group, the McCain campaign cites a March 2008 Newsday article, which says that ACORN organizer Madeleine Talbot "initially considered Obama a competitor" when both were working to get asbestos insulation removed from a Chicago housing project, but that "she became so impressed with his work that she invited him to help train her staff." Newsday does not say whether Obama accepted the invitation. An article (http://www.socialpolicy.org/index.php?id=838) by Chicago alderman Toni Foulkes says that "we [ACORN] have invited Obama to our leadership training sessions to run the session on power every year" between 1992 and 2004, when the article was written. The Obama campaign says that Obama participated in two, one-hour trainings in a volunteer capacity. Foulkes could not be reached for comment.

Neither ACORN's Chicago office nor CSI has been accused of voter registration irregularities.
–by Jess Henig, with Ronald Lampard
If Walmart was to report one of it's employees to the cops for shoplifting Walmart wouldn't be complicit in the theft, yet that is the case trying to be made against ACORN for political gain.