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kirk64
09-06-2003, 09:42 PM
I'm new to Kazzaa and to P2P file sharing and I was concerned what one should do if one notices that some of the downloaded pornagraphic material consist of subjects that clearly look under 18 of age. Who should I report this too. I stopped downloading porn altogether since I'm scared that I will get in trouble, even though it is not my intention to download pornographic material consisting of underage subjects. :unsure:

klite_master
09-06-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by kirk64@6 September 2003 - 22:42
I stopped downloading porn altogether since I'm scared that I will get in trouble, even though it is not my intention to download pornographic material consisting of underage subjects. :unsure:
What's the problem then?

Why do you care so much about what others are watching?

Reminds me of those homophobes who hate gays, even though they present no threat to them.

Just a thought. B)

asmithz
09-06-2003, 10:16 PM
You cant do noting about it and most porn video try to make it seem like the girl is under 18 when they just turned 18. Also when you do see some of them it becuse two teens got together they made a porn video. They had a fight or he is an asshole and he put it on the net. Other then that your just looking for and thats why you found some there. Oh and also in some contries its not illegal to have sex with minors (witch i think is terrible) and film it.

javakel
09-06-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by klite_master+6 September 2003 - 16:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (klite_master @ 6 September 2003 - 16:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kirk64@6 September 2003 - 22:42
I stopped downloading porn altogether since I&#39;m scared that I will get in trouble, even though it is not my intention to download pornographic material consisting of underage subjects. :unsure:
What&#39;s the problem then?

Why do you care so much about what others are watching?

Reminds me of those homophobes who hate gays, even though they present no threat to them.

Just a thought. B) [/b][/quote]
Whoa...don&#39;t you think that&#39;s kinda a big leap from "gays" to someone who&#39;s making/viewing/distributing kiddie porn? Although I do admit that for some it might not be that much of a gulf, which is completely assinine...but that&#39;s another story.

Perhaps he feels a sense of personal responsibility. Being concerned about the possibility that someone is being "exploited" and unable to defend themselves isn&#39;t always a bad thing. The issue may not be that others are watching it, but rather that the ones being watched are unaware of it and wouldn&#39;t want to be watched.

But you know...I could be way off base here. <_<

asmithz
09-06-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by javakel+6 September 2003 - 15:21--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (javakel @ 6 September 2003 - 15:21)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by klite_master@6 September 2003 - 16:09
<!--QuoteBegin-kirk64@6 September 2003 - 22:42
I stopped downloading porn altogether since I&#39;m scared that I will get in trouble, even though it is not my intention to download pornographic material consisting of underage subjects. :unsure:
What&#39;s the problem then?

Why do you care so much about what others are watching?

Reminds me of those homophobes who hate gays, even though they present no threat to them.

Just a thought. B)
Whoa...don&#39;t you think that&#39;s kinda a big leap from "gays" to someone who&#39;s making/viewing/distributing kiddie porn? Although I do admit that for some it might not be that much of a gulf, which is completely assinine...but that&#39;s another story.

Perhaps he feels a sense of personal responsibility. Being concerned about the possibility that someone is being "exploited" and unable to defend themselves isn&#39;t always a bad thing. The issue may not be that others are watching it, but rather that the ones being watched are unaware of it and wouldn&#39;t want to be watched.

But you know...I could be way off base here. <_< [/b][/quote]
Yeah when i was younger i felt bad when i thoght the porn wasent right. LOL :D

stonecold1203
09-06-2003, 10:34 PM
You can&#39;t do anything.

If you report, they will ask "What were you doing searching for porn anyway :blink: "

So why go through the trouble?

Let the person who gives a crap, deal with it

MetroStars
09-06-2003, 10:40 PM
Porn is gud

just look 4 names like April Summers or Home Movie stuff like that...

loz
09-06-2003, 10:43 PM
I think it depends how young for most people, if they look 16 I wouldn&#39;t worry too much (probably are 18 anyway) as that is the legal age of consent in some countries. However if they are not even teenagers then yeh it&#39;s not right but not much you can do about it.

klite_master
09-06-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by javakel+6 September 2003 - 23:21--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (javakel &#064; 6 September 2003 - 23:21)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Whoa...don&#39;t you think that&#39;s kinda a big leap from "gays" to someone who&#39;s making/viewing/distributing kiddie porn?[/b]
I agree that making such thing is a big difference and is wrong, but I don&#39;t think watching it is wrong. You watch people getting killed on CNN and Hollywood movies every day, can "kiddie porn" really be more wrong than that?


Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
Although I do admit that for some it might not be that much of a gulf, which is completely assinine...but that&#39;s another story.
You mean "asinine, right? ;)


Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
Perhaps he feels a sense of personal responsibility.&nbsp; Being concerned about the possibility that someone is being "exploited" and unable to defend themselves isn&#39;t always a bad thing.
Oh my, what a hero. I wonder, since he really cares so much, whether he donates blood as well. ;)

Personally I think he just has a bunch of kiddie porn on his HDD himself, and now he&#39;s playing a smartass around here. It&#39;s also true that if you&#39;re not looking or downloading such stuff, you wouldn&#39;t know it exists. It&#39;s well hidden and censored from public, so you _really_ have to be looking for it to find it, and type just the right search phrases in Kazaa or any P2P software to come up with any positive results on the subject.


Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
The issue may not be that others are watching it, but rather that the ones being watched are unaware of it and wouldn&#39;t want to be watched.
Yes, that indeed is an issue. But the only way you can do anything about it, is if you know the person who&#39;s doing it in real life, so you can report him. But I doubt you&#39;d do that in that situation, since you&#39;d be too scared of what he&#39;d do to you when he comes back from jail. This is no sandbox. But of course, on the internet, every geek nowadays is a hero. :D


Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
But you know...I could be way off base here.&nbsp; <_<
You could be, but the real question is, for how much longer are you going to be? ;)

<!--QuoteBegin-Shad0w Hacker@6 September 2003 - 23:31
Yeah when i was younger i felt bad when i thoght the porn wasent right. LOL :D[/quote]
Nice sarcasm there. B)

Also, so there will be no misconceptions, girls are ready for sex from 13 and above. Below that they really are physically immature, but above that they might be only mentally immature, which is a big difference. :)

rastilin
09-07-2003, 01:52 AM
Nice to see a mature discussion on this subject, at least more mature than the last one.


It&#39;s well hidden and censored from public, so you _really_ have to be looking for it to find it, and type just the right search phrases in Kazaa or any P2P software to come up with any positive results on the subject.

I&#39;ll be willing to take you up on that, just type in porn on a search for image files and I bet that at least 1/3 of the stuff that comes up will be about children. Really it&#39;s not quite so hard to find the stuff. I just conducted a search on "porn" and of the 207 images that have come up so far a decent amount (30/40) are of child pornography.

DasScoot
09-07-2003, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by rastilin@7 September 2003 - 01:52
Nice to see a mature discussion on this subject, at least more mature than the last one.


It&#39;s well hidden and censored from public, so you _really_ have to be looking for it to find it, and type just the right search phrases in Kazaa or any P2P software to come up with any positive results on the subject.

I&#39;ll be willing to take you up on that, just type in porn on a search for image files and I bet that at least 1/3 of the stuff that comes up will be about children. Really it&#39;s not quite so hard to find the stuff. I just conducted a search on "porn" and of the 207 images that have come up so far a decent amount (30/40) are of child pornography.
But have you actually watched them? A majority of the stuff out there is mis-named to make it seem more uh, kinky? than it actually is. I mean, I&#39;ve downloaded some regular ole porn, and later seen the exact same file out there named &#39;13 year old incest&#39; or something like that. While it&#39;s not hard to find, it&#39;s not something you&#39;re really likely to download on accident.

Broken
09-07-2003, 03:23 AM
For the most part, unless it is really made clear in the title or description that it is underage porn you have no idea what you are downloading.

What should you do if I accidentally download child pornography or receive unsolicited child pornography via email?

The law requires you to destroy any child pornography in your possession and it is "strongly" suggested that you contact law enforcement officials. If you do not, destroy such material you can be prosecuted for possessing or receiving child pornography.

Although many people who trade child pornography are clandestine, some of it is out in the open or thinly veiled. If you come across it, you definitely should file a report, but you should not download, save or print any images. Don&#39;t forward images to anyone, including law enforcement. The mere possession or transmission of this type of material is against the law, and even if your motives are honorable, you could be in legal jeopardy if you store it or pass it along.

If you ACCIDENTLY download child porn it is not very likely that you will be in any kind of legal trouble. Destroy such material should you download it&#33; If you are a goodie-goodie and feel the need to report such material you may do so here http://antichildporn.org/reportcp.htm

Do to the volume of the problem, saddly, your report will most likely be in vain.


PORN IS GOOD&#33;

Stifler
09-07-2003, 03:41 AM
i think he is concerned that the FBI will kick in his door becasue he downloaded Porn, and not knowing it has underage ppl in it. i usually delete porn if it has anyone looking uder 16, some of that kiddie shit is just wrong. but yea, i dont think there is anything u can do about it...

javakel
09-07-2003, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by klite_master+6 September 2003 - 17:39--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (klite_master @ 6 September 2003 - 17:39)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
Whoa...don&#39;t you think that&#39;s kinda a big leap from "gays" to someone who&#39;s making/viewing/distributing kiddie porn?
I agree that making such thing is a big difference and is wrong, but I don&#39;t think watching it is wrong. You watch people getting killed on CNN and Hollywood movies every day, can "kiddie porn" really be more wrong than that?


Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
Although I do admit that for some it might not be that much of a gulf, which is completely assinine...but that&#39;s another story.
You mean "asinine, right? ;)


Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
Perhaps he feels a sense of personal responsibility.* Being concerned about the possibility that someone is being "exploited" and unable to defend themselves isn&#39;t always a bad thing.
Oh my, what a hero. I wonder, since he really cares so much, whether he donates blood as well. ;)

Personally I think he just has a bunch of kiddie porn on his HDD himself, and now he&#39;s playing a smartass around here. It&#39;s also true that if you&#39;re not looking or downloading such stuff, you wouldn&#39;t know it exists. It&#39;s well hidden and censored from public, so you _really_ have to be looking for it to find it, and type just the right search phrases in Kazaa or any P2P software to come up with any positive results on the subject.


Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
The issue may not be that others are watching it, but rather that the ones being watched are unaware of it and wouldn&#39;t want to be watched.
Yes, that indeed is an issue. But the only way you can do anything about it, is if you know the person who&#39;s doing it in real life, so you can report him. But I doubt you&#39;d do that in that situation, since you&#39;d be too scared of what he&#39;d do to you when he comes back from jail. This is no sandbox. But of course, on the internet, every geek nowadays is a hero. :D


Originally posted by javakel@6 September 2003 - 23:21
But you know...I could be way off base here.*&nbsp; <_<
You could be, but the real question is, for how much longer are you going to be? ;)

<!--QuoteBegin-Shad0w Hacker@6 September 2003 - 23:31
Yeah when i was younger i felt bad when i thoght the porn wasent right. LOL :D
Nice sarcasm there. B)

Also, so there will be no misconceptions, girls are ready for sex from 13 and above. Below that they really are physically immature, but above that they might be only mentally immature, which is a big difference. :) [/b][/quote]
;) LOL...okay...there seems to be a little difference in interpretation here. So this is just a lil&#39; disclaimer for my reply. I don&#39;t want anyone to get the wrong idea that I&#39;m "flaming" or becoming defensive or anything. Some see anyone questioning their ideas/comment/opinions/conclusions/philosophies as antagonistic in nature, but this is not always the case...at least not for myself. I&#39;m all for open dialogue..and the key word there is dialogue...not debate. They&#39;re really two different things, and I try hard not to confuse the two. :rolleyes:

Moving on. Umm...I don&#39;t see mention anywhere in my post of my own personal standpoint on this issue. I never made any declaration as to whether I thought viewing, producing, distributing, or any other such thing of that nature, was "wrong" or "right". I was merely acknowledging the fact that others may think and feel this way, and that Shadow Hacker could have been expressing his concern because he/she (could be a female...chicks watch porn too..hehehe) felt the same.

Also, I guess I saw the "hating gays" comment differently. Once again I wasn&#39;t making reference to it from any moral or ethical standpoint. The leap that I saw was the fact that kiddie porn (as a colloquial term adopted by many...which, I do admit, has a different connotation than "child pornography") is for the most part a federal offense in some places, the US of course being among them. And because of my lack of clarity in my initial address of this, I want to mention that yes, I do realize that homosexuality is too often seen as "wrong" and "criminal". My point is...in general (and not the use of the word general) child pornography is illegal without exception, and blatantly so. Granted, there may be small variances between different states and whatnot (sorry, yet again, I&#39;ll just clarify that I&#39;m primarily talking about the US, since I don&#39;t know much about the legality of it in other countries), such as the legal age of a minor, the age when even consensual sex between two people is judge statutory rape, etc. Homosexuality isn&#39;t illegal, at least in theory, in the US. And...again...I don&#39;t want to be pigeon-holed here. I know there are ways around that, and homosexuality is often villified and criminalized like other offenses. But this is more nefarious because it isn&#39;t blatant and executed through social controls that are more difficult to contest and evade than purely judicial means.

Additionally, I wasn&#39;t making any moral or ethical assessment of Shadow Hacker as a person, his post, or his personal beliefs and values. I have no idea if the scenarios I proposed were the reason for his question. I was just giving some possibilities...nothing more.

As for the comments on whether or not what he was seeing was indeed child pornography, or just a film made to appear as such for entertainment value and satisfy the consumer&#39;s demand for such, I don&#39;t disagree. It&#39;s a tricky issue, whether from a legal or ethical standpoint. Yet again I stress that this had nothing to do with my reply....merely a POSSIBILITY.

Oh yes, and in reference to the "for how much longer are you going to be" question...my automatic and sarcastic response is: that can only be determined by kirk64. Because...if you pay close attention to the context of the question that inspired the counter-question within my reply as a whole, I wasn&#39;t asking if I was off base about whether child pornography is wrong or should be, or if people who see it EITHER WAY are morally depraved or superior. It was in reference to the "well maybe he&#39;s asking for ____ reason". So, I was only saying that his motivation for posting his question could have been what I suggested, BUT...he could have had different reasons altogether.

SOOO....I wasn&#39;t trying to make any assumptions about anything...just theorizing. It&#39;s not my place to judge, because really, one should examine their own beliefs and values of such things. HOWEVER...the most important "message" and, indeed for the most part its entire intent, was that people should always consider other possibilities and acknowledge that other people may thing differently from us....but this should be followed by reflection on WHY they may see things the way they do. Everyone should be open-minded. But I do have to admit, it appears that everyone (at least those who have replied to this thread) is open-minded, which is encouraging.

Oh...before I forget...about the age of a girl being ready for sex and misconceptions:

There should be an addition to that....and the term "ready" should be used within a more specific context. If by ready you mean capable, well, then the term is lacking. THEORETICALLY....a girl could be CAPABLE, in the physical sense, to engage in sexual intercourse at a number of ages. Perhaps engage is the wrong term here though. I&#39;m not talking about whether or not a young girl would persue it or not...it has nothing to do with any type of personal motivation or anything. I just mean that her body could be ABLE to accomodate it. And hold on...wait...I know what some of you will argue...and I&#39;m just going to say that I&#39;m not addressing whether or not there would be any detrimental affects or anything else. I&#39;m just saying that it COULD happen. To put it more crudely, if someone really wanted to...they could get the job done...it&#39;s not impossible. Now any harm that could result...that&#39;s a different issue. If addressing it from a purely reproductive standpoint...viewing sex and reproduction as synonymous...then that can be younger than 13 too. And youger and younger as time passes. And...finally...the term "sex" is inherently problematic itself. What, exactly, constitutes as sex? After the whole Lewinsky and Clinton "thing", it&#39;s become quite clear that not everyone defines sex in the same way. And this is rightly so, because if you restrict it to mere penetration, and even more narrowly as vaginal penetration by the penis...well then you&#39;re just disenfranchising and ghettoizing people who are outside the boundaries of these narrow specifications. Now that gets into a whole other issue...actually a gamut of different issues with how sexuality, gender, etc. are viewed and how they change the meaning of other things that are said to be "natural", "biological", "factual", or a given. And I&#39;m SOO not going there. :D

javakel
09-07-2003, 04:42 AM
whoops...sorry...Shadow Hacker&#33; I wasn&#39;t paying attention...I didn&#39;t mean you, I meant the original poster kirk64. So so so sorry. :( I didn&#39;t intend to put words in your mouth...especially ones that definitely weren&#39;t your own. :o

balamm
09-07-2003, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by klite_master@7 September 2003 - 00:39

I agree that making such thing is a big difference and is wrong, but I don&#39;t think watching it is wrong. You watch people getting killed on CNN and Hollywood movies every day, can "kiddie porn" really be more wrong than that?



Also, so there will be no misconceptions, girls are ready for sex from 13 and above. Below that they really are physically immature, but above that they might be only mentally immature, which is a big difference. :)
Those are some very disturbing comments. I hope in the future you will keep them to yourself so as not to further offend members of this forum. We don&#39;t need another chalkmongoose episode right now thanks.

javakel
09-07-2003, 04:57 AM
Chalkmongoose??? Explain??? :blink:

balamm
09-07-2003, 05:24 AM
Do a search of that name and you will see the relationship.

DasScoot
09-07-2003, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by balamm+7 September 2003 - 04:50--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (balamm @ 7 September 2003 - 04:50)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-klite_master@7 September 2003 - 00:39

I agree that making such thing is a big difference and is wrong, but I don&#39;t think watching it is wrong. You watch people getting killed on CNN and Hollywood movies every day, can "kiddie porn" really be more wrong than that?



Also, so there will be no misconceptions, girls are ready for sex from 13 and above. Below that they really are physically immature, but above that they might be only mentally immature, which is a big difference. :)
Those are some very disturbing comments. I hope in the future you will keep them to yourself so as not to further offend members of this forum. We don&#39;t need another chalkmongoose episode right now thanks. [/b][/quote]
Except maybe for the part about watching it being ok (it encourages more to be made), he&#39;s not wrong. Girls used to be (and still are in some places) married off and started having kids at 13-14.

balamm
09-07-2003, 05:35 AM
yeah, to their cousins/brothers/uncles.

I think this thread has just become lounge worthy (or at least too offensive to remain where it is). Lets see what the senior members have to say.

Moved >>>>

DanB
09-07-2003, 09:20 AM
there&#39;s some pretty off-key comments out here&#33;&#33;

Celerystalksme
09-07-2003, 09:24 AM
there&#39;s to much writing...

where is the porn??

Billy_Dean
09-07-2003, 09:50 AM
Child porn is WRONG, full stop, black and white&#33;&#33; No grey areas&#33;

If you download it by mistake, and many people have, delete it&#33;

If there is a way to report it, DO SO.

Kite-Master, you talk like a prick&#33; It is NOT OK to watch it, EVER.

These kids are being exploited by adults. People like you only perpetuate the problem.

If this shit is ever going to be stamped out, we must ALL act against it, not "leave it to someone who gives a crap&#33;&#33;"

Quote: "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

DigitHAL9000
09-09-2003, 08:46 AM
I think personal behaviour about this topic depends on the sensibility each one&#39; s got about the question.
It happened to me to download files by an author named r@ygold, and these files where porn with surely underage and surely unwilling girls.
I stopped downloading as soon as I recognized this.
I surely would have adviced someone about that but as I can&#39; t recognize the origin of the files (in which country they were made), I thought it was wasting of time because the police in my country could not do anything about that.

More in general, I think we should not keep material in which people are forced to sex. Many scenes anyway try to let you think it&#39; s rape or the girls are underage, but it&#39; s fiction, and you can see it when they deepthroat these giant cocks they&#39; re not what you supposed them to be.
About underage porn, I think we should not care too much if girls look 15 or older, unless they don&#39; t show they&#39; re forced. I got this video (forza chiara da perugia) in which the girl is makin it with her boyfriend and she knows he&#39; s getting everything on camera so this should be everything allright.
Yes, I know he&#39; s been bastard, but that&#39; s the way things go sometime; if we search a bit we can find lot of material about people sharing files about ex girl/boyfriends, amateur porn, hidden cameras or web cams but in these files sex is made with consent so it&#39; s ok to me.

fugley
09-09-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by rastilin@7 September 2003 - 01:52
Nice to see a mature discussion on this subject, at least more mature than the last one.


It&#39;s well hidden and censored from public, so you _really_ have to be looking for it to find it, and type just the right search phrases in Kazaa or any P2P software to come up with any positive results on the subject.

I&#39;ll be willing to take you up on that, just type in porn on a search for image files and I bet that at least 1/3 of the stuff that comes up will be about children. Really it&#39;s not quite so hard to find the stuff. I just conducted a search on "porn" and of the 207 images that have come up so far a decent amount (30/40) are of child pornography.
I agree - I typed the title x-men&#33; Believe it or not I was only after the x-men movie nothing else&#33; Having a 2mb connection I often click to download a whole wadge of stuff so I can sort for fakes at a later time, and yes some nasty shit was caught up in my catch. I wasn&#39;t even looking for adult porn never mind the other type but I sure as shit got some&#33; - and deleted immediately by the way&#33; (us Focus Drivers arent into that kind of shit&#33;

I had another similar experience too&#33; So it really is possible to get it without wanting it.

Proper Bo
09-09-2003, 03:08 PM
so you finally got the urinal cake :D :lol:

fugley
09-09-2003, 03:25 PM
Yeah aint she nice??? Hello Mr Bo where the hell have you been?? :blink:

loz
09-09-2003, 03:38 PM
Is is true that nude porn is ok?
I read somewhere that the Brooke Shields naked photos of when she was 10 are legal & were sold off at some ridiculous price <_<
So does this mean it must be sex/ penatration to be illegal?