Is this a historic day?

[JPaul]

It's not that long ago that Marin Luther King spoke of his dream. That was a historic moment. Are we about to see the World taking a step towards the fulfilment of that dream. Where all men and women truly are born equal (I substituted created deliberately).

[Skweeky]

It is. Chavis has started to refer to morans with 'it' instead of 'she'.
A huge step :yes:

[JPaul]

It is. Chavis has started to refer to morans with 'it' instead of 'she'.
A huge step :yes:

:O

Chavis goes from misogyny to anti-anthropomorphism.

That's history, baby.

[Skweeky]

't Is a sign o' the times.

[chalice]

It is. Chavis has started to refer to morans with 'it' instead of 'she'.
A huge step :yes:

I did it to appease you cos I like you. I'm not comfortable with it.

Once you go into hospital, I'll lapse back. Guaranteed.

Once you're not with child, you're fair fucking game.

True story.

[Skweeky]

:no:

You could have let me believe i'd converted you for a little while longer.

[MCHeshPants420]

Why so late though? Some of us have work tomorrow (today now . . . ), surely it would make more sense to have this all wrapped up by 6pm?

[Proper Bo]

You'd have thunk so, like.

Those crazy foreigners and their silly customs. :rolleyes:

[DKre8ive1]

well McCain just gave his defeat speech so I guess this day will be a historic day.

[Skiz]

well McCain just gave his defeat speech so I guess this day will be a historic day.

Quite an emotional speech too.

He was incredibly gracious.

[colt45joe]

well McCain just gave his defeat speech so I guess this day will be a historic day.

Quite an emotional speech too.

He was incredibly gracious.

it was ridiculous when the crowd booed.

[MediaSlayer]

the mood here, jp, is jubilant. i'm pissed all to hail, and this is the first time, and the only time, that i can ever remember posting here pissed.

we are really excited, and hopeful to see what will become of this.

[brotherdoobie]

It's not that long ago that Marin Luther King spoke of his dream. That was a historic moment. Are we about to see the World taking a step towards the fulfilment of that dream. Where all men and women truly are born equal (I substituted created deliberately).

Indeed we are, JP.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/04/obama-victory-speech_n_141194.html



-bd :happy:

[Disme]

Maybe an historical day ... but Obama is faced with a country in ruins.

I'm really curious to see what he is going to change and how and at what cost.

[Skiz]

Maybe an historical day ... but Obama is faced with a country in ruins.

I'm really curious to see what he is going to change and how and at what cost.

Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:

[Skiz]

Quite an emotional speech too.

He was incredibly gracious.

it was ridiculous when the crowd booed.

It always happens. It isn't appropriate, but there are always a few of them. No biggie... just a bit of emotion and frustration.

[Skweeky]

Maybe an historical day ... but Obama is faced with a country in ruins.

I'm really curious to see what he is going to change and how and at what cost.

Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:


I guess you have to see it from a distance mate, ie, the other side of the Atlantic. :unsure:

[Disme]

Maybe an historical day ... but Obama is faced with a country in ruins.

I'm really curious to see what he is going to change and how and at what cost.

Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:

- The U.S. of A. is fighting in two devastating wars (Afghinistan and Iraq);
- The U.S. of A. has a huge dificit in it's states budget (due to those wars and other economic factors);
- The U.S. of A. is struggling with a huge banking crysis;
- The U.S. of A. is in an economic recession;
- The U.S. of A. has a social system that is failing;
- Consumer confidence is at an all-time low;
- Unemployment is skyhigh;
- 85% of it's inhabitants are under the impression it isn't going good at all with their nation;
- You're international relationships have been seriously deteriorating during the past 8 years.

I am no U.S. of A. hater or so. It's just the view of an objective bystander who observes from a distance (like Skweeky said).

That's why I said obama will have a very hard time to get the U.S. of A. back on track.

[Barbarossa]

I don't think America is any more in ruins than for example the UK, france or germany to be honest :dabs:

[Disme]

I don't think America is any more in ruins than for example the UK, france or germany to be honest :dabs:

That might be the case, but that wasn't what I said ... I didn't say only the U.S.A. is in ruins ... I said Obama will have a hard time getting the U.S. back on it's feet after the last 8 years.

[Skiz]

Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:

- The U.S. of A. is fighting in two devastating wars (Afghinistan and Iraq);

War is generally good for the economy. It creates jobs, expansion, etc. It certainly hasn't left us in "ruins". Quite the opposite.

- The U.S. of A. has a huge dificit in it's states budget (due to those wars and other economic factors);

We have been in the hole since the 1940's. Nothing new there.

- The U.S. of A. is struggling with a huge banking crysis;
- The U.S. of A. is in an economic recession;

Largely due to the housing market.

In short, this mess was created by the same groups who've created the recent spike in oil prices over here as well.

Parts of New England and southern California saw explosive growth in real estate, and that bubble eventually popped. The same cast of characters that created the housing mess, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, etc. are involved in this new oil bubble. When the housing market went south, they scrambled for a way to recover. They did so by investing in oil futures; only this time they are using federal bailout money to inflate the price of oil.

The way traders manipulate prices is surprisingly simple and goes beyond basic supply and demand. Demand isn't just made up of only real consumer demand but also demand created in the futures market. Hundreds of billions of dollars from hedge funds, pension funds, and other investments have been pouring into the futures market and this money has been creating an artificial demand which in turn is driving prices up. More specifically, they buy in European futures markets, which don't have the various limitations that U.S. markets do. That drives up U.S. prices where they may already have positions set by supply and demand. It’s market manipulation, pure and simple.

But remember, it's all linked to the housing market, and that is why banks are going belly up. As you see the housing market again taking a decline, you see oil prices dropping in unison.

When the housing market recovers, so shall the rest of our economy.

- The U.S. of A. has a social system that is failing;

How so? If there is anything that is thriving over here, it is our social systems. :dry:

- Consumer confidence is at an all-time low;

With relation to what? :unsure:

- Unemployment is skyhigh;

Current estimates are at 4.8%. Up, but a long shot from "sky high".

- 85% of it's inhabitants are under the impression it isn't going good at all with their nation;

I agree that our nation isn't where it should be as well. Who isn't? Anyone who is satisfied with the economic market right now is completely uninformed. But on the uphand, it isn't going to be our end-all. It's a recession. This isn't the first and it won't be the last. We'll get through it just like we always do.

- You're international relationships have been seriously deteriorating during the past 8 years.

The only deterioration we may have had in the past eight years is with countries that don't wish to have a working relationship with the US or it's allies in the first place. Many of our staunch allies have been fighting these battles right along side of us. What staunch ally of ours has reversed their stance with the US?

...

[Skiz]

Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:


I guess you have to see it from a distance mate, ie, the other side of the Atlantic. :unsure:

I would say an up close view is the better one.

[Skweeky]

I'm just saying that's the way it looks from over here. I'm not saying it's true or not. I don't live there.

[MCHeshPants420]

I'm happy Obama got elected but he does have quite the mess(es) to clear up thanks to an absolutely shite 8 years from Bush. Good luck to him (Obama not Bush obviously . . .).

[brotherdoobie]

- The U.S. of A. is fighting in two devastating wars (Afghinistan and Iraq);

War is generally good for the economy. It creates jobs, expansion, etc. It certainly hasn't left us in "ruins". Quite the opposite.

Bullshit. The extra money spent on war - is money that will not be spent elsewhere. War can be funded in a combination of three ways:

1. Increasing taxes
2. Decrease spending in other areas
3. Increasing the debt

- The U.S. of A. has a huge dificit in it's states budget (due to those wars and other economic factors);

We have been in the hole since the 1940's. Nothing new there.

The increase in total debt during Reagan’s two terms was larger than all the debt accumulated by all the presidents before him combined. Bush
Sr. and Jr. added to this debt by continuing to adhere to the principles of Reganomics, and trickle down theory, i.e., padding the pockets of the rich.

When Bill Clinton took office, the budget deficit was $290 billion. When he left, there was a budget surplus of more than $230 billion -- the greatest surplus in U.S. history. The Clinton administration paid down the national debt $216 billion in 2000.

- The U.S. of A. is struggling with a huge banking crysis;
- The U.S. of A. is in an economic recession;

Due to a combination of factors:

The Federal Reserve, Congress, real estate agents, The Clintion administration, mortgage brokers, Alan Greenspan, Wall Street firms, The Bush administration, and obscure accounting rules; such as mark to market.


Largely due to the housing market.

In short, this mess was created by the same groups who've created the recent spike in oil prices over here as well.

Parts of New England and southern California saw explosive growth in real estate, and that bubble eventually popped. The same cast of characters that created the housing mess, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, etc. are involved in this new oil bubble. When the housing market went south, they scrambled for a way to recover. They did so by investing in oil futures; only this time they are using federal bailout money to inflate the price of oil.

The way traders manipulate prices is surprisingly simple and goes beyond basic supply and demand. Demand isn't just made up of only real consumer demand but also demand created in the futures market. Hundreds of billions of dollars from hedge funds, pension funds, and other investments have been pouring into the futures market and this money has been creating an artificial demand which in turn is driving prices up. More specifically, they buy in European futures markets, which don't have the various limitations that U.S. markets do. That drives up U.S. prices where they may already have positions set by supply and demand. It’s market manipulation, pure and simple.

But remember, it's all linked to the housing market, and that is why banks are going belly up. As you see the housing market again taking a decline, you see oil prices dropping in unison.

When the housing market recovers, so shall the rest of our economy.


- The U.S. of A. has a social system that is failing;

How so? If there is anything that is thriving over here, it is our social systems. :dry:

- Consumer confidence is at an all-time low;

With relation to what? :unsure:

- Unemployment is skyhigh;

Current estimates are at 4.8%. Up, but a long shot from "sky high".

- 85% of it's inhabitants are under the impression it isn't going good at all with their nation;

I agree that our nation isn't where it should be as well. Who isn't? Anyone who is satisfied with the economic market right now is completely uninformed. But on the uphand, it isn't going to be our end-all. It's a recession. This isn't the first and it won't be the last. We'll get through it just like we always do.

- You're international relationships have been seriously deteriorating during the past 8 years.

The only deterioration we may have had in the past eight years is with countries that don't wish to have a working relationship with the US or it's allies in the first place. Many of our staunch allies have been fighting these battles right along side of us. What staunch ally of ours has reversed their stance with the US?

...




-bd

[pentomato]

Maybe an historical day ... but Obama is faced with a country in ruins.

I'm really curious to see what he is going to change and how and at what cost.

Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:
It isn't? what else do you need to see?
I forgot you are a republican and as mccain said, the american economy is strong, the majority of americans didn't think so lol

[pentomato]

it was ridiculous when the crowd booed.

It always happens. It isn't appropriate, but there are always a few of them. No biggie... just a bit of emotion and frustration.

It is very strange and sad that only happens in the republican side, just a thought

[pentomato]

Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:


I guess you have to see it from a distance mate, ie, the other side of the Atlantic. :unsure:

Nope, we don't have to go to the other side to see the great fuck up bush did to this great country, yes it is in ruins, we just need total anarchy for some to see it.

[pentomato]

I don't think America is any more in ruins than for example the UK, france or germany to be honest :dabs:

That might be the case, but that wasn't what I said ... I didn't say only the U.S.A. is in ruins ... I said Obama will have a hard time getting the U.S. back on it's feet after the last 8 years.

I agree the US is in ruins, but you guys in Europe and the rest of the world have it much worst

[Skweeky]

How do you figure that then? o_O

[JPaul]

How do you figure that then? o_O

I'm guessing no reason whatsoever.

[Skweeky]

Fair enough.

[j2k4]

Historic how?

First black president?

That can only happen once - with apologies to Bill Clinton.

I'd say that fits the bill.

Certain other "historics" will soon occur...I predict. :whistling

[Something Else]

Everything that happens is historic. Shirley

[Skweeky]

Bill was black?? Did he pull a Michael?

[Something Else]

Bill was black?? Did he pull a Michael?

Dirtiest post of the day. :O

[Skweeky]

:lol: :earl:

I am reading this from my bed and just had to explain to the husband why I burst out laughing!

[j2k4]

Everything that happens is historic. Shirley

Shirley not, and thank God for it.

[Skweeky]

't is only so when logged, as per definition.

[Something Else]

Logged by whom

[Skweeky]

By anyone. If there is no physical source, it can't be historic because no one would remember it. And if they would it would be a story, not a historical fact.

[JPaul]

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Historically significant. Will the future people look back and see it as historically significant. Another step on the road to equality.

A great man once said.

“It’s not the creed nor nationality that counts. It’s the man himself”

That surely extends to everything else, all born equal and so forth.

Are we there yet.

[chalice]

By anyone. If there is no physical source, it can't be historic because no one would remember it. And if they would it would be a story, not a historical fact.

That's mental.

Are you saying that Kennedy being assassinated isn't historic? It was caught on film so even when we're all dead, that fact will still exist in an historical sense for future generations.

[JPaul]

Facts are facts, to say they aren't in the absence of witnesses is kitchen sink zen.

[Skweeky]

Well yes, film counts as physical evidence, as would a written record of it. That's what I'm saying. In empirical research a historical event is something that has a physical record. The definition is a lot broader than that, but that's what it comes down to.

[j2k4]

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Historically significant. Will the future people look back and see it as historically significant. Another step on the road to equality.

A great man once said.

“It’s not the creed nor nationality that counts. It’s the man himself”

That surely extends to everything else, all born equal and so forth.

Are we there yet.

No, certainly not.

When we elect a minority and race doesn't merit a mention we will have "arrived".

Not one jot before.

[Skweeky]

Meaning that someone has to know about the event for it to be historical, otherwise how would we know about it?

Edit: This was meant as a post script for my own post, not Kev's.

[pentomato]

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Historically significant. Will the future people look back and see it as historically significant. Another step on the road to equality.

A great man once said.

“It’s not the creed nor nationality that counts. It’s the man himself”

That surely extends to everything else, all born equal and so forth.

Are we there yet.

No, certainly not.

When we elect a minority and race doesn't merit a mention we will have "arrived".

Not one jot before.
Oh but we are, people never saw Obama as a black man, americans saw and see him as a leader with hope, somebody that can makes us feel proud to be americans again, to be respected in the world again.
Obama didn't run as a black man, he did as new hope.

[IdolEyes787]

Of course no black person voted for him strictly on the basis of colour.:blink:

Just as no white person voted against him on the same basis.:(

The race card was always in the deck even if you didn't see it played.

[JPaul]

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Historically significant. Will the future people look back and see it as historically significant. Another step on the road to equality.

A great man once said.

“It’s not the creed nor nationality that counts. It’s the man himself”

That surely extends to everything else, all born equal and so forth.

Are we there yet.

No, certainly not.

When we elect a minority and race doesn't merit a mention we will have "arrived".

Not one jot before.

Still racists then.

Hopefully a step in the right direction tho'.

[JPaul]

For clarification of my last.

Colour is still an issue, just one that people can see past now.

[j2k4]

No, certainly not.

When we elect a minority and race doesn't merit a mention we will have "arrived".

Not one jot before.
Oh but we are, people never saw Obama as a black man, americans saw and see him as a leader with hope, somebody that can makes us feel proud to be americans again, to be respected in the world again.
Obama didn't run as a black man, he did as new hope.

Either you aren't actually from the U.S., or you are the most naive and intellectually bereft person on this continent.

I'm leaning toward the latter.


For clarification of my last.

Colour is still an issue, just one that people can see past now.

Yes, but I will go right out to the end of the limb to say racism, however it is perceived, is a bigger hang-up for blacks than whites, these days.

Whites compound the problem with their guilt.

It's pretty stupid, really.

[JPaul]

Yes, but I will go right out to the end of the limb to say racism, however it is perceived, is a bigger hang-up for blacks than whites, these days.

Whites compound the problem with their guilt.

It's pretty stupid, really.

Of course it's a "bigger hang-up for the blacks" they are primarily the victims and have been since they were enslaved. It's maybe the centuries of oppression they are reacting to. Wouldn't you agree.

I don't even want to begin to think what "Whites compound the problem with their guilt." means.

[j2k4]

Yes, but I will go right out to the end of the limb to say racism, however it is perceived, is a bigger hang-up for blacks than whites, these days.

Whites compound the problem with their guilt.

It's pretty stupid, really.

Of course it's a "bigger hang-up for the blacks" they are primarily the victims and have been since they were enslaved. It's maybe the centuries of oppression they are reacting to. Wouldn't you agree.

I don't even want to begin to think what "Whites compound the problem with their guilt." means.

For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites.

Whites, therefore (and I assume you can discern the relevance) need to let go the guilt that should have perished with their elders.

I understand the reluctance to forego historic beliefs, but for many it is an active aversion, not to be given up without a pound or two of flesh and/or reparations.

I don't believe "getting even" is an entitlement.

[JPaul]

Of course it's a "bigger hang-up for the blacks" they are primarily the victims and have been since they were enslaved. It's maybe the centuries of oppression they are reacting to. Wouldn't you agree.

I don't even want to begin to think what "Whites compound the problem with their guilt." means.

For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites.

Whites, therefore (and I assume you can discern the relevance) need to let go the guilt that should have perished with their elders.

I understand the reluctance to forego historic beliefs, but for many it is an active aversion, not to be given up without a pound or two of flesh and/or reparations.

I don't believe "getting even" is an entitlement.

That is one of the most appalling posts it has been my misfortune not to avoid reading.

What does it have to do with "old beliefs"

"For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites."

Tell that to the white southerners who are still (last few days) saying things like "To be honest I've never really seen the point in blacks".

[Skiz]

How do you figure that then? o_O

Read pentomato's recent posts in the Drawing Room. You'll see after that that ignoring her altogether the best option. I don't even bother reading her shite anymore. True story.

[Skiz]

Just finished reading the rest of the thread. When did the Lounge become serious bidness? :O

[j2k4]

For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites.

Whites, therefore (and I assume you can discern the relevance) need to let go the guilt that should have perished with their elders.

I understand the reluctance to forego historic beliefs, but for many it is an active aversion, not to be given up without a pound or two of flesh and/or reparations.

I don't believe "getting even" is an entitlement.

That is one of the most appalling posts it has been my misfortune not to avoid reading.

What does it have to do with "old beliefs"

"For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites."

Tell that to the white southerners who are still (last few days) saying things like "To be honest I've never really seen the point in blacks".

There is no end to anecdotal recollection, but for obvious reasons.

Think of the FACT of liberal plants in pointy white hats at republican rallies screaming that they wanted Obama's testicles on a platter.

I know you heard about this; I sure did.

Then think of a hostile media watching and reporting, but going no further, while law enforcement stands idly by.

Can you imagine this as reality with the media and the libs (and the conservatives as well) slavering to tear their hoods off before the cameras.

If these had been the genuine article, you'd have seen them (and their recognizable, identifiable faces) on camera, don't you think.

Most if not all of what you hear along those lines is fabrication, Jim.

If you want to see genuine southern racism, watch the Bill and Hill show.

They don't preach it, but they sure do practice it.

[j2k4]

Just finished reading the rest of the thread. When did the Lounge become serious bidness? :O

Don't ask me, Mr. Mod.

I just go with the flow. :whistling

[pentomato]

Oh but we are, people never saw Obama as a black man, americans saw and see him as a leader with hope, somebody that can makes us feel proud to be americans again, to be respected in the world again.
Obama didn't run as a black man, he did as new hope.

Either you aren't actually from the U.S., or you are the most naive and intellectually bereft person on this continent.

I'm leaning toward the latter.


For clarification of my last.

Colour is still an issue, just one that people can see past now.

Yes, but I will go right out to the end of the limb to say racism, however it is perceived, is a bigger hang-up for blacks than whites, these days.

Whites compound the problem with their guilt.

It's pretty stupid, really.

Let me see if I understand. So whites voted for Obama because they felt guilty? My ass they did, they voted for Obama because of his ideas and because he is not another boy from the Washington club.
Damn republicans, you just find any reason to justify crapm guess what? Obama is your president, like it or not deal with it.

[pentomato]

How do you figure that then? o_O

Read pentomato's recent posts in the Drawing Room. You'll see after that that ignoring her altogether the best option. I don't even bother reading her shite anymore. True story.

Do you feel like killing yourself? lol lol lol, usually that happens after a black man wins the elections and somebody reminds you of it.
Long life to Obama.

[pentomato]

How do you figure that then? o_O

Read pentomato's recent posts in the Drawing Room. You'll see after that that ignoring her altogether the best option. I don't even bother reading her shite anymore. True story.
Ignoring her? lol lol lol lol lol I must make a beautiful woman then, don't you wish you could have me?

[brotherdoobie]

Fuck off. You're giving us Obama supporters a bad name, lad.



-bd :dabs:

[Skweeky]

I guess I'll take Skizo's advice on this one.

Twice in one month him and I agree. :fear:

[clocker]

Think of the FACT of liberal plants in pointy white hats at republican rallies screaming that they wanted Obama's testicles on a platter.

I know you heard about this; I sure did.


What?
So the people booing Obama at McCain's concession speech were "liberal plants"?

Funny thing...at McCain's party- invitation only, hand-picked attendees- there is audible booing several times at the mention of Obama.
At Grant Park in Chicago, where a couple hundred thousand gathered by open invitation, there is dead silence during McCain's speech.

I guess all the liberal plants were rooted in Arizona that day.

[devilsadvocate]

It's not that long ago that Marin Luther King spoke of his dream. That was a historic moment. Are we about to see the World taking a step towards the fulfilment of that dream. Where all men and women truly are born equal (I substituted created deliberately).
I think race isn't an issue except for a rapidly dieing out fraction of society. As a first it is noteworthy in US history, but the true time when the racist America myth can be laid to rest would be when a black republican not only wins his party nomination but keeps turnout high enough to win those southern red states in the election.

Those states didn't vote against Obama because of his skin color. They did so because of political ideology.


That said I can't help but think it would be a lot like the black sheriff in the blazing saddles movie turning up in Rockridge, only to have everyone support him in fighting the evil commie liberal that the democratic party runs with.

[JPaul]

"...racist American myth...", you're having a laugh.

I'm not saying it's not much better than it was FFS I never thought I would see a black POTUS but it's no myth.

[anoneemuse]

this thread shouldnt have lived past the first day

[devilsadvocate]

I'm not suggesting that there is no racism in the US. You only have to listen to talk radio to see that. I'm not suggesting that it was a myth yesteryear in some states or that some clinging to that time aren't still walking.

I'm talking about the entire USA, Which if you take as a whole and not attribute the lowest fringe as the whole is no more racist than most of the rest of the world.

[JPaul]

You're having an even bigger laugh now.

What was the civil rights movement in the USA about then, if racism wasn't endemic.

[j2k4]

Think of the FACT of liberal plants in pointy white hats at republican rallies screaming that they wanted Obama's testicles on a platter.

I know you heard about this; I sure did.


What?
So the people booing Obama at McCain's concession speech were "liberal plants"?

Funny thing...at McCain's party- invitation only, hand-picked attendees- there is audible booing several times at the mention of Obama.
At Grant Park in Chicago, where a couple hundred thousand gathered by open invitation, there is dead silence during McCain's speech.

I guess all the liberal plants were rooted in Arizona that day.

"Dead silence during McCain's speech"?

The height of magnanimity, eh?

BTW - tell me why, this time around, the news is not rife with stories of republican vote-stealing, intimidation, and cheating.

Might I suggest that it didn't happen.

Here's another question:

Given the "inevitablity" of progressive liberalism, how is it that a gay marriage ban passed in California, put over the top, one hears, by the black vote?

[Skiz]

A few boo'ing hecklers says nothing about anything, except those few hecklers. It has nothing to do with the party or a single other person in attendance that night.

Sometimes losing isn't gracious, though John showed everyone it can be done impeccably.

[JPaul]

BTW - tell me why, this time around, the news is not rife with stories of republican vote-stealing, intimidation, and cheating.

Might I suggest that it didn't happen.



Which is why they didn't win this time. I suppose two in a row would have been pushing their luck.

[devilsadvocate]

You're having an even bigger laugh now.

What was the civil rights movement in the USA about then, if racism wasn't endemic.

If you look back at my first response you will see I wrote about the southern states. These sates are only part of a nation comprising of 50. There was segregation in the south, NOT the whole USA.

Tell me, do you have anti discrimination laws in your country? If you do, why?

[pentomato]

You're having an even bigger laugh now.

What was the civil rights movement in the USA about then, if racism wasn't endemic.

If you look back at my first response you will see I wrote about the southern states. These sates are only part of a nation comprising of 50. There was segregation in the south, NOT the whole USA.

Tell me, do you have anti discrimination laws in your country? If you do, why?

There was segregation in the everywhere in the United States, but europe is much worst when it comes to racism, here at least we can sue the hell out of everyone.

[pentomato]

What?
So the people booing Obama at McCain's concession speech were "liberal plants"?

Funny thing...at McCain's party- invitation only, hand-picked attendees- there is audible booing several times at the mention of Obama.
At Grant Park in Chicago, where a couple hundred thousand gathered by open invitation, there is dead silence during McCain's speech.

I guess all the liberal plants were rooted in Arizona that day.

"Dead silence during McCain's speech"?

The height of magnanimity, eh?

BTW - tell me why, this time around, the news is not rife with stories of republican vote-stealing, intimidation, and cheating.

Might I suggest that it didn't happen.

Here's another question:

Given the "inevitablity" of progressive liberalism, how is it that a gay marriage ban passed in California, put over the top, one hears, by the black vote?

Oh but there was stories of people not been register when they went to vote, Tim Robins an actor, houndreds more in New York, voting machines registering votes for Mccain when people voted for Obama.
This time THEY didn't steal the election because the press was all over the place, and people were watching this time.
You see this time even the poor didn't mind to wait for hours to vote, there was to much to loose and four more years of the same garbage, no way jose.

[Mississippi]

"...racist American myth...", you're having a laugh.

I'm not saying it's not much better than it was FFS I never thought I would see a black POTUS but it's no myth.


He's right.

[JPaul]

You're having an even bigger laugh now.

What was the civil rights movement in the USA about then, if racism wasn't endemic.

If you look back at my first response you will see I wrote about the southern states. These sates are only part of a nation comprising of 50. There was segregation in the south, NOT the whole USA.

Really, so everyone had equal rights elsewhere. No underclass other than in the southern states. Really.

Tell me, do you have anti discrimination laws in your country? If you do, why?

We have anti-discrimination laws, yes. They are there to make discrimination illegal, I think that's self evident.

We also have laws against murder, rape, theft and a whole raft of other things which we don't want to happen. That's kind of how it works. Again fairly self evident I would have thought.

[100%]

http://obama2008.s3.amazonaws.com/headlines.html

[JPaul]

Genious link

[j2k4]

BTW - tell me why, this time around, the news is not rife with stories of republican vote-stealing, intimidation, and cheating.

Might I suggest that it didn't happen.



Which is why they didn't win this time. I suppose two in a row would have been pushing their luck.

I will say this, in response to your response to my response to your response to my response to your thread topic:

Votes have been stolen right and left since time immemorial.

I am confident the left has taken their share over the last several election cycles, and though your view of our left is of a rosy hue, I will remind you that your own words have been immortalized (though perhaps cast away in the great postal debacle) here attesting to Auntie Beeb's infallibility, which virtue, you claimed, was owed to none other than your government's largesse.

Pretty silly, but you've stuck to it, or at least not bothered to depart from your naivete on the point.

Brilliant as you are.

I really mean that last, youngster. :)

[JPaul]

I have no view of your left whatsoever, none at all. As you are aware I know little of your political landscape and am less than inclined to find out.

I have done a bit of research into the structure of your administration as it interested me. I have also had a read of your Constitution, for the same reason. Juxtaposing your system of Government with our own, they really are very different. However the minutiae of the parties and their policies, nah not really interested. I suspect they are as blurred as our own nowadays. Diminishing political entropy probably.

As to "Auntie Beeb's infallibility, which virtue, you claimed, was owed to none other than your government's largesse.

Pretty silly, but you've stuck to it, or at least not bothered to depart from your naivete on the point."

I am genuinely at a loss as to what you are referring to. True Story.

[devilsadvocate]

If you look back at my first response you will see I wrote about the southern states. These sates are only part of a nation comprising of 50. There was segregation in the south, NOT the whole USA.

Really, so everyone had equal rights elsewhere. No underclass other than in the southern states. Really.

How far back do you want to go and has your country never had an underclass? What is the statute of limitations on that?
Tell me, do you have anti discrimination laws in your country? If you do, why?

We have anti-discrimination laws, yes. They are there to make discrimination illegal, I think that's self evident.

Have these laws always been in place? when did they become laws and why was there a need to have them in the first place?

We also have laws against murder, rape, theft and a whole raft of other things which we don't want to happen. That's kind of how it works. Again fairly self evident I would have thought.

America has racists within it just like any other nation, yours included. It also has non race prejudices, but to say that it's a racist nation is just wrong.

Whatever may have been in the past is not what is now.

[JPaul]

We have anti-discrimination laws, yes. They are there to make discrimination illegal, I think that's self evident.

Have these laws always been in place? when did they become laws and why was there a need to have them in the first place?

We also have laws against murder, rape, theft and a whole raft of other things which we don't want to happen. That's kind of how it works. Again fairly self evident I would have thought.

America has racists within it just like any other nation, yours included. It also has non race prejudices, but to say that it's a racist nation is just wrong.

Whatever may have been in the past is not what is now.

What the fuck are you talking about, when did I say America was a racist Country. It most certainly was in the past, there's no denying it.

However did you read what I said, that it was much better now and that was surely evidenced by a black man being elected POTUS. I even said later that never thought I would see it in my lifetime.

I started the thread contemplating just how far on the USA had come in such a relatively short time. The thread was a celebration of it's growth as a nation and acceptance of all it's citizens. Not there yet but going in the right direction.

[devilsadvocate]

I made a post


I'm not suggesting that there is no racism in the US. You only have to listen to talk radio to see that. I'm not suggesting that it was a myth yesteryear in some states or that some clinging to that time aren't still walking.

I'm talking about the entire USA, Which if you take as a whole and not attribute the lowest fringe as the whole is no more racist than most of the rest of the world.
and you replied

You're having an even bigger laugh now.

What was the civil rights movement in the USA about then, if racism wasn't endemic.

If my interpretation of this is not what you meant then your last has clarified and no harm.

[j2k4]

I have no view of your left whatsoever, none at all. As you are aware I know little of your political landscape and am less than inclined to find out.

I have done a bit of research into the structure of your administration as it interested me. I have also had a read of your Constitution, for the same reason. Juxtaposing your system of Government with our own, they really are very different. However the minutiae of the parties and their policies, nah not really interested. I suspect they are as blurred as our own nowadays. Diminishing political entropy probably.

As to "Auntie Beeb's infallibility, which virtue, you claimed, was owed to none other than your government's largesse.

Pretty silly, but you've stuck to it, or at least not bothered to depart from your naivete on the point."

I am genuinely at a loss as to what you are referring to. True Story.

It happened, trust me.

As I said, possibly gone in the post-flap.

The subject was an investigation of Tony's intent vis a vis some comment or whatall about the Beeb.

You were a voice in the chorus singing, "Auntie Beeb, she's a peach and would never, ever lie about anything at all, especially government influence, because she owes 'er boots to the government, you see.

Didn't make sense; still doesn't.

Anyhoo.

[JPaul]

I made a post


and you replied

You're having an even bigger laugh now.

What was the civil rights movement in the USA about then, if racism wasn't endemic.

If my interpretation of this is not what you meant then your last has clarified and no harm.

Do you understand that the word "was" refers to the past. That's how we indicate whether we are talking about the past, present or future. By using "was", "is" or "will be", it's kind of a convention we have.

[JPaul]

I have no view of your left whatsoever, none at all. As you are aware I know little of your political landscape and am less than inclined to find out.

I have done a bit of research into the structure of your administration as it interested me. I have also had a read of your Constitution, for the same reason. Juxtaposing your system of Government with our own, they really are very different. However the minutiae of the parties and their policies, nah not really interested. I suspect they are as blurred as our own nowadays. Diminishing political entropy probably.

As to "Auntie Beeb's infallibility, which virtue, you claimed, was owed to none other than your government's largesse.

Pretty silly, but you've stuck to it, or at least not bothered to depart from your naivete on the point."

I am genuinely at a loss as to what you are referring to. True Story.

It happened, trust me.

As I said, possibly gone in the post-flap.

The subject was an investigation of Tony's intent vis a vis some comment or whatall about the Beeb.

You were a voice in the chorus singing, "Auntie Beeb, she's a peach and would never, ever lie about anything at all, especially government influence, because she owes 'er boots to the government, you see.

Didn't make sense; still doesn't.

Anyhoo.

That sounds like a conversation in The Drawing Room, I don't remember it but it's unlikely to have happened anywhere else.

You do know I just made stuff up in there. You did know that, yes.

[thewizeard]

Me of course silly!

[thewizeard]

..a random test in synchronicity.. I wonder what Osama Bin Laden's answer to this election result will be... now back to the "other thread"

[devilsadvocate]

Do you understand that the word "was" refers to the past. That's how we indicate whether we are talking about the past, present or future. By using "was", "is" or "will be", it's kind of a convention we have.

right back at you


Originally Posted by devilsadvocate http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/images/buttons_fst/viewpost.gif (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-lounge-10/t-is-historic-day-319978-post3025182#post3025182)
I'm not suggesting that there is no racism in the US. You only have to listen to talk radio to see that. I'm not suggesting that it was a myth yesteryear in some states or that some clinging to that time aren't still walking.

[chalice]

I fucking love it when the Drawing Room seeps into the Lounge.

It's like when your estranged uncle, who has tasted the wonders of civilisation, walks onto your kitchen floor wot you've just pissed all over for a laugh.

[JPaul]

right back at you


Originally Posted by devilsadvocate http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/images/buttons_fst/viewpost.gif (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-lounge-10/t-is-historic-day-319978-post3025182#post3025182)
I'm not suggesting that there is no racism in the US. You only have to listen to talk radio to see that. I'm not suggesting that it was a myth yesteryear in some states or that some clinging to that time aren't still walking.

:lol:

You've just quoted yourself posting drivel and emboldened some of it. That's either genious or idiotic.

[j2k4]

It happened, trust me.

As I said, possibly gone in the post-flap.

The subject was an investigation of Tony's intent vis a vis some comment or whatall about the Beeb.

You were a voice in the chorus singing, "Auntie Beeb, she's a peach and would never, ever lie about anything at all, especially government influence, because she owes 'er boots to the government, you see.

Didn't make sense; still doesn't.

Anyhoo.

That sounds like a conversation in The Drawing Room, I don't remember it but it's unlikely to have happened anywhere else.

You do know I just made stuff up in there. You did know that, yes.

Indeed; I was reminding you of it. :whistling

[handyrandy]

Of course there is racism in the United States. But the ridiculous racists are of every color. Equalism is whats needed. I am glad that barack won, hes extremely intelligent, and his integrity is beyond contestation. I think he brings hope to the United States and i truly hope that he makes good on most of his campain promises. Impossible to appease everyone mind you, but anything is better than George W. or a decrepit old man (who probably wouldnt have lived through his presidency anyways) leaving the nuclear codes in a womans hands that thinks dinosaurs roamed the earth only 4000 years ago and her claim to foreign policy is i live 90 miles from russia. the fact she got as close as she had to that being an actual reality is kind of terrifying. Though most of Americans were more than unhappy with george w. 4 years ago and had black voters even showed a moderate turn out at the voting booths we would have started healing the economy back then. Barack deserved to win but not based on color, but on character and the issues that he plans to address. I think it is sad that alot of black voters , more than likely, turned out in such large numbers based purely on his color and not his great potential that he does possess.

[chalice]

Of course there is racism in the United States. But the ridiculous racists are of every color. Equalism is whats needed. I am glad that barack won, hes extremely intelligent, and his integrity is beyond contestation. I think he brings hope to the United States and i truly hope that he makes good on most of his campain promises. Impossible to appease everyone mind you, but anything is better than George W. or a decrepit old man (who probably wouldnt have lived through his presidency anyways) leaving the nuclear codes in a womans hands that thinks dinosaurs roamed the earth only 4000 years ago and her claim to foreign policy is i live 90 miles from russia. the fact she got as close as she had to that being an actual reality is kind of terrifying. Though most of Americans were more than unhappy with george w. 4 years ago and had black voters even showed a moderate turn out at the voting booths we would have started healing the economy back then. Barack deserved to win but not based on color, but on character and the issues that he plans to address. I think it is sad that alot of black voters , more than likely, turned out in such large numbers based purely on his color and not his great potential that he does possess.

I've got a cold sore on the inside of my nostril. True story.

What should I do about it? You seem like the person to ask.

[chalice]

For qualification, it's my left nostril.

I know that was your next question.

[handyrandy]

lol you have a cold sore on the inside of your left nostril? i would call your physician and demand oxycontins(80 mg's). That has to be uncomfortable

[chalice]

Thanks.

I tried headbutting several walls nose-first to no avail. I'm still not convinced though.

Do you think it has anything to do with the arrangement of my furniture cos I'll happily change that under your advice.

I'm desperate.

[JPaul]

Nasal herpes, you dirty, dirty bastard.

[JPaul]

Of course there is racism in the United States. But the ridiculous racists are of every color. Equalism is whats needed. I am glad that barack won, hes extremely intelligent, and his integrity is beyond contestation. I think he brings hope to the United States and i truly hope that he makes good on most of his campain promises. Impossible to appease everyone mind you, but anything is better than George W. or a decrepit old man (who probably wouldnt have lived through his presidency anyways) leaving the nuclear codes in a womans hands that thinks dinosaurs roamed the earth only 4000 years ago and her claim to foreign policy is i live 90 miles from russia. the fact she got as close as she had to that being an actual reality is kind of terrifying. Though most of Americans were more than unhappy with george w. 4 years ago and had black voters even showed a moderate turn out at the voting booths we would have started healing the economy back then. Barack deserved to win but not based on color, but on character and the issues that he plans to address. I think it is sad that alot of black voters , more than likely, turned out in such large numbers based purely on his color and not his great potential that he does possess.

You don't even know how racist you are, do you.

[chalice]

They were metaphorical herpes, actually.

I do have a nasal wart though. True story. It's not clearly visible but it fucking wrecks me that it's there. I think it comes from coming into contact with one of my son's digital warts. He likes to explore orifices. Fuck! That sounds so wrong.

I also have a cyst on my chest which burgeons with each miserable year. But I've mentioned before that it's a karmic cyst, so I deserve it.

Apart from all those deformities, I'm a pretty handsome kinda guy.

[JPaul]

They were metaphorical herpes, actually.

I do have a nasal wart though. True story. It's not clearly visible but it fucking wrecks me that it's there. I think it comes from coming into contact with one of my son's digital warts. He likes to explore orifices. Fuck! That sounds so wrong.

I also have a cyst on my chest which burgeons with each miserable year. But I've mentioned before that it's a karmic cyst, so I deserve it.

Apart from all those deformities, I'm a pretty handsome kinda guy.

Can't you get the nasal wart burned off, in the cold way.

[chalice]

They were metaphorical herpes, actually.

I do have a nasal wart though. True story. It's not clearly visible but it fucking wrecks me that it's there. I think it comes from coming into contact with one of my son's digital warts. He likes to explore orifices. Fuck! That sounds so wrong.

I also have a cyst on my chest which burgeons with each miserable year. But I've mentioned before that it's a karmic cyst, so I deserve it.

Apart from all those deformities, I'm a pretty handsome kinda guy.

Can't you get the nasal wart burned off, in the cold way.

Nope. Facial nerves are too sensitive for that. You have to have them surgically removed.

Warts are organisms. They have a life span. Most won't live past 5 years. The procedure is much like dentistry and less like surgery. the same aesthetics are applied, but if the doctor doesn't get the root, then you're fucked all over again and the bastard will re-emerge.

Which is what happened to me. So I'm waiting out the wart.

Good name for a poem that, now that I think about it, like.

[JPaul]

You must call your autobiography that - "Waiting Out The Wart".

[Busyman]

- The U.S. of A. is fighting in two devastating wars (Afghinistan and Iraq);

War is generally good for the economy. It creates jobs, expansion, etc. It certainly hasn't left us in "ruins". Quite the opposite.

It generally is good for the economy. It's shit all right now. It's definitely not good for us in general with lives lost and billions pissed away.

- The U.S. of A. has a huge dificit in it's states budget (due to those wars and other economic factors);

We have been in the hole since the 1940's. Nothing new there.

It's getting bigger....much bigger.

- The U.S. of A. is struggling with a huge banking crysis;
- The U.S. of A. is in an economic recession;

Largely due to the housing market.

In short, this mess was created by the same groups who've created the recent spike in oil prices over here as well.

Parts of New England and southern California saw explosive growth in real estate, and that bubble eventually popped. The same cast of characters that created the housing mess, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, etc. are involved in this new oil bubble. When the housing market went south, they scrambled for a way to recover. They did so by investing in oil futures; only this time they are using federal bailout money to inflate the price of oil.

The way traders manipulate prices is surprisingly simple and goes beyond basic supply and demand. Demand isn't just made up of only real consumer demand but also demand created in the futures market. Hundreds of billions of dollars from hedge funds, pension funds, and other investments have been pouring into the futures market and this money has been creating an artificial demand which in turn is driving prices up. More specifically, they buy in European futures markets, which don't have the various limitations that U.S. markets do. That drives up U.S. prices where they may already have positions set by supply and demand. It’s market manipulation, pure and simple.

But remember, it's all linked to the housing market, and that is why banks are going belly up. As you see the housing market again taking a decline, you see oil prices dropping in unison.

When the housing market recovers, so shall the rest of our economy.

The housing market was over-inflated anyway. Oil prices dropped because the stock market dropped. This is related to the housing market but housing market does not = oil market.

- The U.S. of A. has a social system that is failing;

How so? If there is anything that is thriving over here, it is our social systems. :dry:

- Consumer confidence is at an all-time low;

With relation to what? :unsure:

Read up on what the consumer confidence index is.

It is at an all time low.

- Unemployment is skyhigh;

Current estimates are at 4.8%. Up, but a long shot from "sky high".

Unemployment is at 6.5%

- 85% of it's inhabitants are under the impression it isn't going good at all with their nation;

I agree that our nation isn't where it should be as well. Who isn't? Anyone who is satisfied with the economic market right now is completely uninformed. But on the uphand, it isn't going to be our end-all. It's a recession. This isn't the first and it won't be the last. We'll get through it just like we always do.

- You're international relationships have been seriously deteriorating during the past 8 years.

The only deterioration we may have had in the past eight years is with countries that don't wish to have a working relationship with the US or it's allies in the first place. Many of our staunch allies have been fighting these battles right along side of us. What staunch ally of ours has reversed their stance with the US?

...

If you believe our relationships weren't strained you live in a hole. Do you think "no WMDs" helped our relationships?

[Busyman]

Of course no black person voted for him strictly on the basis of colour.:blink:

Just as no white person voted against him on the same basis.:(

The race card was always in the deck even if you didn't see it played.

Black Americans are predominantly Democrat. Maybe that was the basis.

When Jesse and Al ran, they didn't get far. Many blacks I know wouldn't vote for them.

Obama transcended race.

[Busyman]

Oh but we are, people never saw Obama as a black man, americans saw and see him as a leader with hope, somebody that can makes us feel proud to be americans again, to be respected in the world again.
Obama didn't run as a black man, he did as new hope.

Either you aren't actually from the U.S., or you are the most naive and intellectually bereft person on this continent.

I'm leaning toward the latter.


For clarification of my last.

Colour is still an issue, just one that people can see past now.

Yes, but I will go right out to the end of the limb to say racism, however it is perceived, is a bigger hang-up for blacks than whites, these days.

Whites compound the problem with their guilt.

It's pretty stupid, really.

Some compound the problem with their racism.

[Busyman]

Of course it's a "bigger hang-up for the blacks" they are primarily the victims and have been since they were enslaved. It's maybe the centuries of oppression they are reacting to. Wouldn't you agree.

I don't even want to begin to think what "Whites compound the problem with their guilt." means.

For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites.

Whites, therefore (and I assume you can discern the relevance) need to let go the guilt that should have perished with their elders.

I understand the reluctance to forego historic beliefs, but for many it is an active aversion, not to be given up without a pound or two of flesh and/or reparations.

I don't believe "getting even" is an entitlement.

There are plenty of white people that have no guilt and are racist.

Maybe we can start there and then those uppity black folk can stop getting all offended and stuff.

[Disme]

...

If you believe our relationships weren't strained you live in a hole. Do you think "no WMDs" helped our relationships?

Please elaborate cause I don't understand what you just said ... English ain't my mothertongue :cry:

[JPaul]

If you believe our relationships weren't strained you live in a hole. Do you think "no WMDs" helped our relationships?

Please elaborate cause I don't understand what you just said ... English ain't my mothertongue :cry:

He called you a cunt.

[Biggles]

Please elaborate cause I don't understand what you just said ... English ain't my mothertongue :cry:

He called you a cunt.

and a liker of Hasselhoff music


Is Jesse Jackson on-side with Obama now? He was going to eat his nuts or something a couple of months ago.

[j2k4]

Of course no black person voted for him strictly on the basis of colour.:blink:

Just as no white person voted against him on the same basis.:(

The race card was always in the deck even if you didn't see it played.

Black Americans are predominantly Democrat. Maybe that was the basis.

When Jesse and Al ran, they didn't get far. Many blacks I know wouldn't vote for them.

Obama transcended race.

He certainly did among black voters, didn't he. :whistling

I don't agree, btw.

How would you know if those (whites, say) whom are/were not racist (you know they exist, 'cuz you know me), and who didn't vote for Jesse or Al, but did vote for Obama.

Obama transcended nothing, he merely ran a campaign for which race never became a central issue, given the rich menu of other salient topics.

He ran a smart campaign; one for which I wouldn't have forecast success.

[JPaul]

He ran a smart campaign; one for which I wouldn't have forecast success.

Against McCain and Palin, resulting in pretty much a landslide victory.

Remind me never to ask you for advice on stock to buy.

[j2k4]

He ran a smart campaign; one for which I wouldn't have forecast success.

Against McCain and Palin, resulting in pretty much a landslide victory.

Remind me never to ask you for advice on stock to buy.

The result was more a function McCain's poor strategy than Obama's excellence.

Obama's vagueness didn't turn people off.

There was also the generational disconnect that precluded a proper appreciation of Obama's socialist/communist/Marxist statements by our youngsters.

We've got tons of people voting who were born after the Berlin Wall came down.

No idea (and certainly no impulse to develop one) about the Cold War, USSR, etc.

McCain and his surrogates wasted valuable time harping on that.

As to your asking for stock tips, I would never presume; besides which, you've got more money than you have a right to, already.

Send a cheque to HM R&C immediately, you Scot slacker. :whistling

[JPaul]

Against McCain and Palin, resulting in pretty much a landslide victory.

Remind me never to ask you for advice on stock to buy.

The result was more a function McCain's poor strategy than Obama's excellence.

Obama's vagueness didn't turn people off.

There was also the generational disconnect that precluded a proper appreciation of Obama's socialist/communist/Marxist statements by our youngsters.

We've got tons of people voting who were born after the Berlin Wall came down.

No idea (and certainly no impulse to develop one) about the Cold War, USSR, etc.

McCain and his surrogates wasted valuable time harping on that.



In spite of all of that you never foresaw an Obama win.

Spectacliar.

[Something Else]

Hoi. I was in Berlin when the wall came down. It was pushed!

[chalice]

Against McCain and Palin, resulting in pretty much a landslide victory.

Remind me never to ask you for advice on stock to buy.

The result was more a function McCain's poor strategy than Obama's excellence.

Obama's vagueness didn't turn people off.

There was also the generational disconnect that precluded a proper appreciation of Obama's socialist/communist/Marxist statements by our youngsters.

We've got tons of people voting who were born after the Berlin Wall came down.

No idea (and certainly no impulse to develop one) about the Cold War, USSR, etc.

McCain and his surrogates wasted valuable time harping on that.

As to your asking for stock tips, I would never presume; besides which, you've got more money than you have a right to, already.

Send a cheque to HM R&C immediately, you Scot slacker. :whistling

It's like a digital amputee clutching at lollipops.

[clocker]

The result was more a function McCain's poor strategy than Obama's excellence.

So any Democrat could have won?
McCain lost the election, Obama didn't win it.

Lovin the denial, Kev.
Repubs are scrambling to explain that this was McCain/Palin's fault, if only a better candidate was around, he- and it would be a "he" wouldn't it?- could have explained the righteousness of the Republican philosophy.

I would posit that McCain actually did better than anyone had a right to expect and American voters were just sick to death of the crap that recent Republican administrations have been shoving down our throats.

In other words, Obama would have beaten anybody your party put up.

[JPaul]

The result was more a function McCain's poor strategy than Obama's excellence.

So any Democrat could have won?
McCain lost the election, Obama didn't win it.

Lovin the denial, Kev.
Repubs are scrambling to explain that this was McCain/Palin's fault, if only a better candidate was around, he- and it would be a "he" wouldn't it?- could have explained the righteousness of the Republican philosophy.

I would posit that McCain actually did better than anyone had a right to expect and American voters were just sick to death of the crap that recent Republican administrations have been shoving down our throats.

In other words, Obama would have beaten anybody your party put up.

See that's okay, other than "American voters were just sick to death of the crap that recent Republican administrations have been shoving down our throats." which is just hideous.

[clocker]

See that's okay, other than "American voters were just sick to death of the crap that recent Republican administrations have been shoving down our throats." which is just hideous.
It's better when you can hear the accent.

[j2k4]

Dbl post.

[j2k4]

The result was more a function McCain's poor strategy than Obama's excellence.

So any Democrat could have won?
McCain lost the election, Obama didn't win it.

Lovin the denial, Kev.
Repubs are scrambling to explain that this was McCain/Palin's fault, if only a better candidate was around, he- and it would be a "he" wouldn't it?- could have explained the righteousness of the Republican philosophy.

I would posit that McCain actually did better than anyone had a right to expect and American voters were just sick to death of the crap that recent Republican administrations have been shoving down our throats.

In other words, Obama would have beaten anybody your party put up.

That last assumes Obama was unbeatable, period, which is just plain wrong.

McCain did do better than he should have done on the face of things, which indicates Obama'a vulnerability on many points - I would posit that had McCain played a better game, and let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally, he may even have won.

Suffice it to say that the fact Obama got a mere "solid victory" as opposed to a "landslide" over a candidate like McCain tells the truer story.

Bush beat Kerry by a few percentage points in '04, and you libs started with your "but that isn't a mandate" crap; must you be bitter in victory as well.

Fact is, if Obama was everything you think, he should've beaten McCain like Johnson beat Goldwater in '64.

EDIT-

It was Bush-hate and Obama'a tying McCain to Bush in every way he could (and there was not an appearance by Obama or his surrogates anywhere, anytime, when they failed make the connection) that won him the election.

Period.

[JPaul]

:lol:

He didn't win well enough so that's like a fail

FFS Kev, can you hear yourself.

[The Flying Cow]

I don't think he can. That's why he posts innit.

[clocker]

That last assumes Obama was unbeatable, period, which is just plain wrong.

McCain did do better than he should have done on the face of things, which indicates Obama'a vulnerability on many points - I would posit that had McCain played a better game, and let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally, he may even have won.
"Let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally"?
I have no idea what the statistics say but my impression of the McCain campaign was that it was unremittingly negative.
I can't recall any reasons to vote for McCain, just reasons not to vote for Obama. Between Palin's "pals around with terrorists" mantra and the ACORN nonsense I would say that the McCain camp was always aiming for Obama's eyes but they were such poor shots they kept hitting their own feet instead.

Suffice it to say that the fact Obama got a mere "solid victory" as opposed to a "landslide" over a candidate like McCain tells the truer story.
Bush beat Kerry by a few percentage points in '04, and you libs started with your "but that isn't a mandate" crap; must you be bitter in victory as well.
Interesting how the Repubs love the electoral college when it works for them and hate it when it doesn't.
With even thinner margins of the popular vote in 2000 and 2004 than this time, Repubs were happy to accept a "mandate" based on the electoral college votes and proceeded to unleash eight years of scorched earth neoconservatism.
Now however, Democrats are supposed to step lightly because Obama didn't win by enough votes to constitute a "landslide".
How convenient that would be for you should he follow that advice...in 2012 you'd get to say, "Look how ineffectual Obama was, he got nothing done".

Screw that...go big Obama.

Fact is, if Obama was everything you think, he should've beaten McCain like Johnson beat Goldwater in '64.

EDIT-

It was Bush-hate and Obama'a tying McCain to Bush in every way he could (and there was not an appearance by Obama or his surrogates anywhere, anytime, when they failed make the connection) that won him the election.

Period.
How hard do you think it was to tie McCain to Bush?
His record was pretty clear and who else was more of a "maverick"?
And why is it that Republicans refuse to take any responsibility for the "Bush-hate"?
You aided and abetted Bush for eight years and suddenly seem surprised to learn that his- and by extension, your- approach was reviled and hated.
Really, what did you expect?

[j2k4]

:lol:

He didn't win well enough so that's like a fail

FFS Kev, can you hear yourself.

Yes, I can.

It's called post-vote analysis.

You aren't familiar, I gather?

Would you regard yourself as uninformed as to the history of your football; never inclined to speak of events recently past.

Will you have anything to say about Calzaghe/Jones on Sunday should (God forbid) Joe lose?

Do you require that I generate an extended post congratulating Obama?

[j2k4]

That last assumes Obama was unbeatable, period, which is just plain wrong.

McCain did do better than he should have done on the face of things, which indicates Obama'a vulnerability on many points - I would posit that had McCain played a better game, and let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally, he may even have won.
"Let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally"?
I have no idea what the statistics say but my impression of the McCain campaign was that it was unremittingly negative.
I can't recall any reasons to vote for McCain, just reasons not to vote for Obama. Between Palin's "pals around with terrorists" mantra and the ACORN nonsense I would say that the McCain camp was always aiming for Obama's eyes but they were such poor shots they kept hitting their own feet instead.

Suffice it to say that the fact Obama got a mere "solid victory" as opposed to a "landslide" over a candidate like McCain tells the truer story.
Bush beat Kerry by a few percentage points in '04, and you libs started with your "but that isn't a mandate" crap; must you be bitter in victory as well.
Interesting how the Repubs love the electoral college when it works for them and hate it when it doesn't.
With even thinner margins of the popular vote in 2000 and 2004 than this time, Repubs were happy to accept a "mandate" based on the electoral college votes and proceeded to unleash eight years of scorched earth neoconservatism.
Now however, Democrats are supposed to step lightly because Obama didn't win by enough votes to constitute a "landslide".
How convenient that would be for you should he follow that advice...in 2012 you'd get to say, "Look how ineffectual Obama was, he got nothing done".

Screw that...go big Obama.

Fact is, if Obama was everything you think, he should've beaten McCain like Johnson beat Goldwater in '64.

EDIT-

It was Bush-hate and Obama'a tying McCain to Bush in every way he could (and there was not an appearance by Obama or his surrogates anywhere, anytime, when they failed make the connection) that won him the election.

Period.
How hard do you think it was to tie McCain to Bush?
His record was pretty clear and who else was more of a "maverick"?
And why is it that Republicans refuse to take any responsibility for the "Bush-hate"?
You aided and abetted Bush for eight years and suddenly seem surprised to learn that his- and by extension, your- approach was reviled and hated.
Really, what did you expect?

The fact you brought up the electoral college indicates your misapprehension.

I said Bush/Kerry, not Bush/Gore, so who is hung up on the electoral college.

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

I find tremendous irony in saying to you that while I spent considerable time criticizing him, you could never find favor with anything he did; your modus operandi would have been to find an "oil" motive behind his aid-to-Africa program.

In any case, we have a new program to watch, and I, unlike you, will not begin it by defaulting to fawning worship of the new "messiah".

He will do what he will do, and I will laud or criticize as I see fit.

I look forward to your first criticism of Obama, should it ever occur...though I am not holding my breath. :whistling

[pentomato]

:lol:

He didn't win well enough so that's like a fail

FFS Kev, can you hear yourself.

Yes, I can.

It's called post-vote analysis.

You aren't familiar, I gather?

Would you regard yourself as uninformed as to the history of your football; never inclined to speak of events recently past.

Will you have anything to say about Calzaghe/Jones on Sunday should (God forbid) Joe lose?

Do you require that I generate an extended post congratulating Obama?

Post-vote analysis? I see where you get your information, from the disfunctional republican ignorant Foxnews, lol lol lol and they call it fair a balance lol.

[pentomato]

How hard do you think it was to tie McCain to Bush?
His record was pretty clear and who else was more of a "maverick"?
And why is it that Republicans refuse to take any responsibility for the "Bush-hate"?
You aided and abetted Bush for eight years and suddenly seem surprised to learn that his- and by extension, your- approach was reviled and hated.
Really, what did you expect?

The fact you brought up the electoral college indicates your misapprehension.

I said Bush/Kerry, not Bush/Gore, so who is hung up on the electoral college.

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

I find tremendous irony in saying to you that while I spent considerable time criticizing him, you could never find favor with anything he did; your modus operandi would have been to find an "oil" motive behind his aid-to-Africa program.

In any case, we have a new program to watch, and I, unlike you, will not begin it by defaulting to fawning worship of the new "messiah".

He will do what he will do, and I will laud or criticize as I see fit.

I look forward to your first criticism of Obama, should it ever occur...though I am not holding my breath. :whistling

But there is nothing positive about Bush, nothing at all, from stealing two elections, to bankrupt the country, to do away with our personal freedoms, there is nothing positive about his presidence.
The guy is dumber than a plastic doll, he doesn't know right from wrong.
Obama is not amessiah, he is a regular inteligent man, that America hopes he will fix Bush's mess.

[clocker]

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

Ah, the Fox News "fair and balanced" strategy.
Your support of Bush was "qualified", my dislike was "knee-jerk hatred"...in essence- you're intellectual, I'm not.

[j2k4]

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

Ah, the Fox News "fair and balanced" strategy.
Your support of Bush was "qualified", my dislike was "knee-jerk hatred"...in essence- you're intellectual, I'm not.

Ah, I see Obama's been good for you already - that post was only knee-jerk.

[clocker]

Nice try.

[JPaul]

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

Ah, the Fox News "fair and balanced" strategy.
Your support of Bush was "qualified", my dislike was "knee-jerk hatred"...in essence- you're intellectual, I'm not.

He's got a point like.

[j2k4]

Hey, don't get me wrong, feel free to sing hosannas to the man if you like.

[JPaul]

See there's you with the emotive stuff again.

Just accept that some people in your country are pleased that someone with similar political views to them has been elected.

I think I can speak for the rest of the World when I say that if the choices for most powerful man in the World are Bush or Obama we'll give Obama a wee shot.

[JPaul]

When I say a wee shot I obviously amn't suggesting you kill another one of your leaders.

[j2k4]

See there's you with the emotive stuff again.

Just accept that some people in your country are pleased that someone with similar political views to them has been elected.

Though there isn't a man or woman amongst them who can claim to know the slightest about what those views are, I will assure you I do accept it; that's the way elections have worked, all my life.

Where is the caveat that says I have to like it.

Just for the record, the sum total of his policies is:

1. Change

2. Hope

3. More of the first two.

4. Talk to, and negotiate with, anyone at all

5. Invade Pakistan

6: Big dose of socialism/communism

7: Bankrupt the coal industry

8. Big bux to fight global warming

9: Confiscatory tax levels beginning at:

a: 250K

b: 200K

c: 150K

d: 120K

e: 42K

f: pick'em

There really wasn't anything else on the menu, that I could see.

Oh, and lest I forget-

10: Less Bush.


I think I can speak for the rest of the World when I say that if the choices for most powerful man in the World are Bush or Obama we'll give Obama a wee shot.

I wonder why you mentioned "Bush" rather than "McCain" as the choice to be made.

Curious...or perhaps not.


When I say a wee shot I obviously amn't suggesting you kill another one of your leaders.

Ah.

Good one.

Boothe, Czolgosz, Guiteau, Oswald, Sirhan, and Ray - all well-known conservatives.

EDIT-

Just for the record, none of you has a case of Bush-fatigue exceeding my own.

[JPaul]

I mentioned Bush because he's the current one. Tho' I do take your point that it was kind of a mental way of looking at it.

I think if the choices were McCain and Bush, McCain would be in by a landslide.

[JPaul]

EDIT-

Just for the record, none of you has a case of Bush-fatigue exceeding my own.

:naughty:

Still got it big man.

[clocker]

Just for the record, the sum total of his policies is:

1. Change

2. Hope

3. More of the first two.

4. Talk to, and negotiate with, anyone at all

5. Invade Pakistan

6: Big dose of socialism/communism

7: Bankrupt the coal industry

8. Big bux to fight global warming

9: Confiscatory tax levels beginning at:

a: 250K

b: 200K

c: 150K

d: 120K

e: 42K

f: pick'em

There really wasn't anything else on the menu, that I could see.

Oh, and lest I forget-

10: Less Bush.


Had you been willing to gather information anywhere else other than Fox News you might have been able to educate yourself more extensively.

Be that as it may though...what exactly were the cornerstones of McCain's platform?

-"I'm a maverick"

-"I was a prisoner of war"

-"Joe the plumber"

-"I'm so proud of Sarah Palin"

Did I miss any of the big ones?

[enoughfakefiles]

Had you been willing to gather information anywhere else other than Fox News you might have been able to educate yourself more extensively.

Be that as it may though...what exactly were the cornerstones of McCain's platform?

-"I'm a maverick"

-"I was a prisoner of war"

-"Joe the plumber"

-"I'm so proud of Sarah Palin"

Did I miss any of the big ones?

His arms don't look right :unsure:

[JPaul]

Just for the record, the sum total of his policies is:

1. Change

2. Hope

3. More of the first two.

4. Talk to, and negotiate with, anyone at all

5. Invade Pakistan

6: Big dose of socialism/communism

7: Bankrupt the coal industry

8. Big bux to fight global warming

9: Confiscatory tax levels beginning at:

a: 250K

b: 200K

c: 150K

d: 120K

e: 42K

f: pick'em

There really wasn't anything else on the menu, that I could see.

Oh, and lest I forget-

10: Less Bush.


Had you been willing to gather information anywhere else other than Fox News you might have been able to educate yourself more extensively.

Be that as it may though...what exactly were the cornerstones of McCain's platform?

-"I'm a maverick"

-"I was a prisoner of war"

-"Joe the plumber"

-"I'm so proud of Sarah Palin"

Did I miss any of the big ones?

Apparently he can't raise his arms above elbow level. So would be shite at Volleyball.

[clocker]

Apparently he can't raise his arms above elbow level. So would be shite at Volleyball.
True, that.
Then again, that's why we have an Army.

[Proper Bo]

a volleyball army?:O

[enoughfakefiles]

a volleyball army?:O

They'd probably win hands down :pinch:

[Biggles]

a volleyball army?:O

They'd probably win hands down :pinch:

That was the only option for McCain

[JPaul]

:coat:

[j2k4]

I mentioned Bush because he's the current one. Tho' I do take your point that it was kind of a mental way of looking at it.

I think if the choices were McCain and Bush, McCain would be in by a landslide.

Gee.

I thought I liked British humor.




Just for the record, the sum total of his policies is:

1. Change

2. Hope

3. More of the first two.

4. Talk to, and negotiate with, anyone at all

5. Invade Pakistan

6: Big dose of socialism/communism

7: Bankrupt the coal industry

8. Big bux to fight global warming

9: Confiscatory tax levels beginning at:

a: 250K

b: 200K

c: 150K

d: 120K

e: 42K

f: pick'em

There really wasn't anything else on the menu, that I could see.

Oh, and lest I forget-

10: Less Bush.


Had you been willing to gather information anywhere else other than Fox News you might have been able to educate yourself more extensively.

Be that as it may though...what exactly were the cornerstones of McCain's platform?

-"I'm a maverick"

-"I was a prisoner of war"

-"Joe the plumber"

-"I'm so proud of Sarah Palin"

Did I miss any of the big ones?




Apparently he can't raise his arms above elbow level. So would be shite at Volleyball.
True, that.
Then again, that's why we have an Army.

Here's one for you.

You are ignoring the effect of your method of consumption.

I watch Foxnews, BBC America, MSNBC, CNN, CNNHN, CNBC, and Bloomberg.

Regularly.

You catch all of your Foxnews watching Youtube videos.

What else you may or may not watch is of little consequence, but, judging from the number of mentions The Daily Show gets, I could probably peg that, too.

All that said, you've got a point - it's just that McCain has the street cred you complain Palin lacked, that Obama didn't need, and that Biden...well, then, there's Biden; nuff said.

McCain obviously thought he didn't need it against your upstart.

Just that simple. :whistling

[Biggles]

Gee.




Here's one for you.

You are ignoring the effect of your method of consumption.

I watch Foxnews, BBC America, MSNBC, CNN, CNNHN, CNBC, and Bloomberg.

Regularly.

You catch all of your Foxnews watching Youtube videos.

What else you may or may not watch is of little consequence, but, judging from the number of mentions The Daily Show gets, I could probably peg that, too.

All that said, you've got a point - it's just that McCain has the street cred you complain Palin lacked, that Obama didn't need, and that Biden...well, then, there's Biden; nuff said.

McCain obviously thought he didn't need it against your upstart.

Just that simple. :whistling


No, we get Fox, CNN, Bloomberg, Skynews, BBC, CNBC, EuroNews, Indian News (NDTV), Chinese News (CCTV9) - last three all English language - on Sky.

Of course the time difference means that I don't see the later Fox shows (CNN is geared for Europe) so it is 10.00ish here by the time Cavuto is watching the Wall Street bell ring. I did see Annie on his show the other night though.

We did have Al Jazeera for a while too

[clocker]

I would suggest that The Daily Show has more integrity than Fox since it at least admits it's a comedy show.
And it's not true I don't watch Fox at the source...I love to see Sean Hannity make an ass of himself in real time.

McCain squandered whatever "street cred" he may have accrued when he populated his campaign with the same sleazy operatives who smeared him 2000. Nothing says "I'm going to sell my soul to get elected" more clearly than hiring the same guys who claimed he had a black baby during the South Carolina campaign.
He built his own Swift boat, planted Palin on the prow, then proceeded to run it aground.
Boo-fucking-hoo.

Obama was smarter, more focused and tougher...that's why he won.
Just THAT simple.