Barack Hussein Obama - 44th US President

[Busyman]

Barack Obama, a 47-year-old first-term senator from Illinois, shattered more than 200 years of history Tuesday night by winning election as the first African-American president of the United States.

A crowd of nearly a quarter-million jammed Grant Park and the surrounding area in Chicago, where Obama addressed the nation for the first time as its president-elect at midnight ET. Hundreds of thousands more — Mayor Richard Daley said he would not be surprised if a million Chicagoans jammed the streets — watched on a large television screen outside the park.

“If there is anyone out there who doubts that America is a place where anything is possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer,” Obama declared.

270 electoral were needed to win
McCain - 173
Obama - 364

ass whippin'

States of note that Obama won:

Virginia
Indiana
Florida
Ohio
North Carolina
Pennsylvania

McCain basically won the entire midwest and "the south" (besides Florida).
---------------------------------------

I was lucky when I voted. I went in the morning and saw the line was long as hell so I went on to work. I went later around 3pm and walked straight up to the voting booth (after ID check). No line whatsoever.

Basically Obama galvanized people from all walks of life and people that don't normally vote.

I do hope that people hold Obama to some high standards and not give him a pass. Be skeptical and critical, folks. He's our President and not a celebrity.

[Barbarossa]

Thanks bawa. It's a good job you're here to keep us all informed... :mellow:

[clocker]

McCain basically won the entire midwest and "the south" (besides Florida).

Obama took both Colorado and New Mexico, two states which had been reliably Republican for decades.
That is rather significant.

[Busyman]

Thanks bawa. It's a good job you're here to keep us all informed... :mellow:

Your welcome, j2k4. :mellow:

[Busyman]

McCain basically won the entire midwest and "the south" (besides Florida).

Obama took both Colorado and New Mexico, two states which had been reliably Republican for decades.
That is rather significant.

True. I didn't forget them.

I remembered Virginia (close to me), Florida, and Ohio mainly due to their electoral count.

[j2k4]

All hail B.O.

Sorry, I mean B.H.O. :dabs:

[MaxOverlord]

Barack Obama, a 47-year-old first-term senator from Illinois, shattered more than 200 years of history Tuesday night by winning election as the first African-American president of the United States.

A crowd of nearly a quarter-million jammed Grant Park and the surrounding area in Chicago, where Obama addressed the nation for the first time as its president-elect at midnight ET. Hundreds of thousands more — Mayor Richard Daley said he would not be surprised if a million Chicagoans jammed the streets — watched on a large television screen outside the park.

“If there is anyone out there who doubts that America is a place where anything is possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer,” Obama declared. 270 electoral were needed to win
McCain - 173
Obama - 364

ass whippin'

States of note that Obama won:

Virginia
Indiana
Florida
Ohio
North Carolina
Pennsylvania

McCain basically won the entire midwest and "the south" (besides Florida).
---------------------------------------

I was lucky when I voted. I went in the morning and saw the line was long as hell so I went on to work. I went later around 3pm and walked straight up to the voting booth (after ID check). No line whatsoever.

Basically Obama galvanized people from all walks of life and people that don't normally vote.

I do hope that people hold Obama to some high standards and not give him a pass. Be skeptical and critical, folks. He's our President and not a celebrity.


Don't you find it just a bit queer that you had to mention that Obama is not a celebrity?

Just a thought.

[bornwithnoname]

Welcome to the Abomination I mean Obamanation.

[MaxOverlord]

Welcome to the Abomination I mean Obamanation.

What's the Abomination? I can't wait for you to tell me because I am extremely curious as to your point of view.

Is Obama an Abomination?

I'll grant you the clever play on words..if it be clever at all.

I'm curious tho.....what or which part is the Abomination?

[fotografic]

Blimey..heres me thinking he's the most famous Irishman.....Barak O'Bama..see http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EADUQWKoVek

[Busyman]

270 electoral were needed to win
McCain - 173
Obama - 364

ass whippin'

States of note that Obama won:

Virginia
Indiana
Florida
Ohio
North Carolina
Pennsylvania

McCain basically won the entire midwest and "the south" (besides Florida).
---------------------------------------

I was lucky when I voted. I went in the morning and saw the line was long as hell so I went on to work. I went later around 3pm and walked straight up to the voting booth (after ID check). No line whatsoever.

Basically Obama galvanized people from all walks of life and people that don't normally vote.

I do hope that people hold Obama to some high standards and not give him a pass. Be skeptical and critical, folks. He's our President and not a celebrity.


Don't you find it just a bit queer that you had to mention that Obama is not a celebrity?

Just a thought.

No. He actually is since the media made him so.

However at the same time, I want people to hold him accountable like any other President. When get all wide-eyed as they are in love or some shit, the person they are wide-eyed for can do no wrong.

Mind you he has been handed a lot of shit on his plate but if he fucks up royally, I don't want people coming in here giving outlandish excuses.

[j2k4]

Don't you find it just a bit queer that you had to mention that Obama is not a celebrity?

Just a thought.

No. He actually is since the media made him so.

However at the same time, I want people to hold him accountable like any other President. When get all wide-eyed as they are in love or some shit, the person they are wide-eyed for can do no wrong.

Mind you he has been handed a lot of shit on his plate but if he fucks up royally, I don't want people coming in here giving outlandish excuses.

Mind, your definition of "fucking-up royally" is historically pretty narrow when it comes to democrats.

In any case why should you care who offers up whichever excuse for him?

[MaxOverlord]

Don't you find it just a bit queer that you had to mention that Obama is not a celebrity?

Just a thought.

No. He actually is since the media made him so.

However at the same time, I want people to hold him accountable like any other President. When get all wide-eyed as they are in love or some shit, the person they are wide-eyed for can do no wrong.

Mind you he has been handed a lot of shit on his plate but if he fucks up royally, I don't want people coming in here giving outlandish excuses.

So Obama is a celebrity. What was it? His gettin' down on the Ellen Degeneres show? Or was it the Greek columns with the audio saturated with reverb to make him sound SO BIG and COMMANDING?

And tell my why we wouldn't hold him accountable like any other POTUS.

Do you know something I don't know about Pres.Elect.Obama?

Is it because hes a Black Man, Busyman? Is that what it is? Let's cut the bullshit here.

He could be 2ft tall and green for all I give a shit...it's his thought patterns and his choice of words and his policy outlook that I'm concerned with.....

Then again I'm a Conservative so anything I say is racist anyways.

:censored::censored:

[clocker]

Here's (http://www.236.com/video/2008/get_your_war_on_new_world_orde_10121.php) what Busy knows...

[weenden]

yeah lets start the name calling aint that right guns

[bornwithnoname]

Welcome to the Abomination I mean Obamanation.

What's the Abomination? I can't wait for you to tell me because I am extremely curious as to your point of view.

Is Obama an Abomination?

I'll grant you the clever play on words..if it be clever at all.

I'm curious tho.....what or which part is the Abomination?

O'bama is not an abomination. He is a man with some extremely different political views than mine. He is well educated and well spoken and had he been more conservative I might have voted for him. But as it is now I think he will take the country places I don't it to go..

[clocker]

Yeah, "conservatism"- at least as practiced by Republicans- has worked out sooo well, hasn't it?

[j2k4]

Here's (http://www.236.com/video/2008/get_your_war_on_new_world_orde_10121.php) what Busy knows...

What you said. :huh:

[bornwithnoname]

Yeah, "conservatism"- at least a practiced by Republicans- has worked out sooo well, hasn't it?


Let's not confuse G.W. with conservatives or Republicans. He should be tried for crimes against humanity.

[clocker]

Yeah, "conservatism"- at least a practiced by Republicans- has worked out sooo well, hasn't it?


Let's not confuse G.W. with conservatives or Republicans. He should be tried for crimes against humanity.
Let's not confuse- or more accurately, forget- that conservatives AND Republicans put Bush in office and then reelected him in 2004.
Let's not forget that conservatives AND Republicans tried to foist off Bush-lite- i.e., John McCain- again in 2008.

How about conservatives and Republicans man up and take some responsibility for the state of the Union?

[devilsadvocate]

Yeah, "conservatism"- at least a practiced by Republicans- has worked out sooo well, hasn't it?


Let's not confuse G.W. with conservatives or Republicans. He should be tried for crimes against humanity.

GW is both a conservative and a republican, unpopularity or failure in office doesn't disqualify him from the label.

[Detale]

I'm a Republican and I can't say I completely hate Obama, I almost voted for him. I think it's an amazing time to be alive. What I do not like is the Electoral vote and popular vote discrepancies.

Final EV total: 349-160; Popular vote: 52%-47%

Now I am not saying Obama didn't win, but the numbers seem way off here. What I do think happened is the Democratic party representatives did not represent their constituents correctly the PV was pretty close unlike the landslide victory in the EV. I think that because the Dem's control the majority of the house they pretty much bullied their way in. This is not true democracy at work. The original idea of electoral votes as I'm sure you all know was done because the majority of people were uneducated and trusted their elected officials to do the right thing for them, which was OK at the time. Times have changed and I think they should put the power back directly into the peoples hands.

[clocker]

You are aware that GWB won both elections with even thinner percentages of the popular vote (in fact, he lost the popular vote in 2000)?
I assume you've been upset about that for the past eight years, right?

BTW, your explanation behind the theory of the Electoral College is bizarre to say the least.
Might want to wiki it.

[pentomato]

I'm a Republican and I can't say I completely hate Obama, I almost voted for him. I think it's an amazing time to be alive. What I do not like is the Electoral vote and popular vote discrepancies.

Final EV total: 349-160; Popular vote: 52%-47%

Now I am not saying Obama didn't win, but the numbers seem way off here. What I do think happened is the Democratic party representatives did not represent their constituents correctly the PV was pretty close unlike the landslide victory in the EV. I think that because the Dem's control the majority of the house they pretty much bullied their way in. This is not true democracy at work. The original idea of electoral votes as I'm sure you all know was done because the majority of people were uneducated and trusted their elected officials to do the right thing for them, which was OK at the time. Times have changed and I think they should put the power back directly into the peoples hands.

You are wrong, the electoral college started because in those times we didn't have television, internet, cars or any way to know everything in less than two minutes, so a few electoral votes and carrying them to a main place by horse was the only way.
I agree with you, the electoral college should be abolished, then again, Bush would never have been president and Mccain either.

[pentomato]

You are aware that GWB won both elections with even thinner percentages of the popular vote (in fact, he lost the popular vote in 2000)?
I assume you've been upset about that for the past eight years, right?

BTW, your explanation behind the theory of the Electoral College is bizarre to say the least.
Might want to wiki it.
Bush never won any election, the supreme court elected him and eight years later the country is bankrupt. nice very nice

[pentomato]

Let's not confuse G.W. with conservatives or Republicans. He should be tried for crimes against humanity.

GW is both a conservative and a republican, unpopularity or failure in office doesn't disqualify him from the label.
Bush doesn't know what he is, he is just a retard...

[pentomato]

What's the Abomination? I can't wait for you to tell me because I am extremely curious as to your point of view.

Is Obama an Abomination?

I'll grant you the clever play on words..if it be clever at all.

I'm curious tho.....what or which part is the Abomination?

O'bama is not an abomination. He is a man with some extremely different political views than mine. He is well educated and well spoken and had he been more conservative I might have voted for him. But as it is now I think he will take the country places I don't it to go..

You mean, Obama is going to take the country out of bankrupcy right where Bush brought it?
The way I see it, republicans the so called pro family, anti big goberment, well, well the country has never been seeing a biger goberment, and the republican family values of anti gay and anti corruption and the majority of republicans are gay and corrupt, thank god I am not a republican I would be ashame at this very moment.

[clocker]

"The majority of Republicans are gay and corrupt"?

Where do you get this shit?

[Detale]

Alright the electoral college thing I read somewhere i guess it's a point of view. I am not the biggest fan of Bush( I did vote for him twice) but C'mon now he is not to blame for everything that every went wrong in the country during his term. The economy is in NO WAY his fault. This is the fault of greedy lenders and corporate greed in general. People always call him dumb but they said the same of Reagan and now we realize that his "Reaganomics" actually worked and in conjunction of the DotCom boom made Clinton seem to the ignorant like he was the best pres ever because times were good. Clinton did nothing for us. He was a great public speaker surely, but so are used car salesmen. He stepped in shit and rode the wave like everyone else. I feel bad for Obama as the nation will be fucked for prob another 5-10 years but it's no ones fault just the rise and fall of our economy. I saw a financial analyst on TV the other day who made some sense. He showed that even though we are all in a panic and the the market is falling ATM we are still way above where we were before the dotcom boom and people just need to stop panicing. I think he had a good point but I myself lost around $30K from my pension so it's scary but what exactly do you think Obama is going to do about this? Print more money? So we can be like the Chinese where a pack of gum costs $200,000

[pentomato]

"The majority of Republicans are gay and corrupt"?

Where do you get this shit?
Just reading the news, one was arrested in a public bathroom in a airport, another one was sending sexual emails to male interns, and many more I just don't write those down.
So many were accused of taking money for favors, the last one, the one from Alaska. Google it, you will find out.

[pentomato]

Alright the electoral college thing I read somewhere i guess it's a point of view. I am not the biggest fan of Bush( I did vote for him twice) but C'mon now he is not to blame for everything that every went wrong in the country during his term. The economy is in NO WAY his fault. This is the fault of greedy lenders and corporate greed in general. People always call him dumb but they said the same of Reagan and now we realize that his "Reaganomics" actually worked and in conjunction of the DotCom boom made Clinton seem to the ignorant like he was the best pres ever because times were good. Clinton did nothing for us. He was a great public speaker surely, but so are used car salesmen. He stepped in shit and rode the wave like everyone else. I feel bad for Obama as the nation will be fucked for prob another 5-10 years but it's no ones fault just the rise and fall of our economy. I saw a financial analyst on TV the other day who made some sense. He showed that even though we are all in a panic and the the market is falling ATM we are still way above where we were before the dotcom boom and people just need to stop panicing. I think he had a good point but I myself lost around $30K from my pension so it's scary but what exactly do you think Obama is going to do about this? Print more money? So we can be like the Chinese where a pack of gum costs $200,000

So everything good that happened in this country after Reagan was his miracle touch?
Reagan lowered the taxes from the rich and the middle class started going to hell, paying more and more of the burden, more and more of the middle class desapaired and homelessness become a thing of his presidence.
He sold drugs in america to finance the contras in Nicaragua, sold weapons to Iran an enemy of the United States, you can say all you want that it was Oliver North and maybe it was, but if the president doesn't know what's going on in the country, then he didn't deserve to be president.

[clocker]

Google it, you will find out.
I'll get right on that.
Meanwhile, how about you look up the definition of "majority".

[pentomato]

Google it, you will find out.
I'll get right on that.
Meanwhile, how about you look up the definition of "majority".
Ok not the majority but many. Is that better?

[devilsadvocate]

Bush doesn't know what he is, he is just a retard...

never mind

[Detale]

Alright the electoral college thing I read somewhere i guess it's a point of view. I am not the biggest fan of Bush( I did vote for him twice) but C'mon now he is not to blame for everything that every went wrong in the country during his term. The economy is in NO WAY his fault. This is the fault of greedy lenders and corporate greed in general. People always call him dumb but they said the same of Reagan and now we realize that his "Reaganomics" actually worked and in conjunction of the DotCom boom made Clinton seem to the ignorant like he was the best pres ever because times were good. Clinton did nothing for us. He was a great public speaker surely, but so are used car salesmen. He stepped in shit and rode the wave like everyone else. I feel bad for Obama as the nation will be fucked for prob another 5-10 years but it's no ones fault just the rise and fall of our economy. I saw a financial analyst on TV the other day who made some sense. He showed that even though we are all in a panic and the the market is falling ATM we are still way above where we were before the dotcom boom and people just need to stop panicing. I think he had a good point but I myself lost around $30K from my pension so it's scary but what exactly do you think Obama is going to do about this? Print more money? So we can be like the Chinese where a pack of gum costs $200,000

So everything good that happened in this country after Reagan was his miracle touch?
Reagan lowered the taxes from the rich and the middle class started going to hell, paying more and more of the burden, more and more of the middle class desapaired and homelessness become a thing of his presidence.
He sold drugs in america to finance the contras in Nicaragua, sold weapons to Iran an enemy of the United States, you can say all you want that it was Oliver North and maybe it was, but if the president doesn't know what's going on in the country, then he didn't deserve to be president.

No no you misunderstand. No single man could have a miracle touch to think otherwise would be ignorant. What a president does for us with his time is usually not seen while he is still in office. It takes years and years for the general public to reap any benefits set in motion by the commander in chief.

I'm saying that it has become popular to "Bush Bash" and it's not fair. With all the things he is blamed for he cannot possibly be responsible for all of them. So how are we supposed to know which he is actually responsible for if any? I cannot wait to see how this new guy is going to deal with the troubled times ahead and how they will critique him. Although with the majority of media outlets being as liberal as they are, I would think excuses are going to be coming aplenty. Just like when President Clinton LIED UNDER OATH. Sure the majority forgave him and loads of people love him, but the fact is he lied under oath. A serious crime unless you're him I guess. I imagine some will say "If you cheated on your wife would you admit it?" my short answer is i am not the president.

[pentomato]

So everything good that happened in this country after Reagan was his miracle touch?
Reagan lowered the taxes from the rich and the middle class started going to hell, paying more and more of the burden, more and more of the middle class desapaired and homelessness become a thing of his presidence.
He sold drugs in america to finance the contras in Nicaragua, sold weapons to Iran an enemy of the United States, you can say all you want that it was Oliver North and maybe it was, but if the president doesn't know what's going on in the country, then he didn't deserve to be president.

No no you misunderstand. No single man could have a miracle touch to think otherwise would be ignorant. What a president does for us with his time is usually not seen while he is still in office. It takes years and years for the general public to reap any benefits set in motion by the commander in chief.

I'm saying that it has become popular to "Bush Bash" and it's not fair. With all the things he is blamed for he cannot possibly be responsible for all of them. So how are we supposed to know which he is actually responsible for if any? I cannot wait to see how this new guy is going to deal with the troubled times ahead and how they will critique him. Although with the majority of media outlets being as liberal as they are, I would think excuses are going to be coming aplenty. Just like when President Clinton LIED UNDER OATH. Sure the majority forgave him and loads of people love him, but the fact is he lied under oath. A serious crime unless you're him I guess. I imagine some will say "If you cheated on your wife would you admit it?" my short answer is i am not the president.

Clinton had sex, he was relax the country was doing great, I don't care if the president has sex in the oval office or in the Lincoln room, I could care less, but Bush lied to the world about Iraq, he sent houndreds of thousands of kids to fight and die for nothing and he is still lying, and we didn't win any wars and we never will, the middle east is another vietnan.
Bush cut taxes for the rich and the middle class has to pay more, trillions of dollars for the wars, there is not money for education at home, tax brakes for corporations that take jobs overseas, that is unamerican.
He is bankrupting the country, the chinese, saudi arabia, Venezuela are buying our debt, we own them trillions, we can't pay. Do you want more stuff for the things bush has done?
Again if you or the president have sex with anyone, I could care less, at least Clinton didn't send kids to die for a lie.

[clocker]

What a president does for us with his time is usually not seen while he is still in office. It takes years and years for the general public to reap any benefits set in motion by the commander in chief.
Maybe it does take "years and years" to become aware of the benefits brought to us by the Bush administration (I personally don't see any but I'm being generous this morning) but it sure didn't take long to see the downside, did it?


I'm saying that it has become popular to "Bush Bash" and it's not fair. With all the things he is blamed for he cannot possibly be responsible for all of them. So how are we supposed to know which he is actually responsible for if any?
What do you mean "if any"?
The man (self-described as "The Decider") was President for eight years, if we can't hold him responsible for the state of the union then what's the point of having a President at all?
During one of the most tumultuous eras in American history, Bush has set a record for vacation days, beating the former record of Ronald Reagan...apparently Republicans venerate their Presidents in direct proportion to their absence.
Point being, if the head of the company you work for drove said company into bankruptcy, laid you off and did it all while on vacation, would you be so kindly predisposed towards him?

with the majority of media outlets being as liberal as they are, I would think excuses are going to be coming aplenty.
Ah, the old "liberal media bias" excuse.
Talk radio is overwhelmingly conservative- assuming you consider Limbaugh and O'Reilly to be "conservative" instead of bloviating assclowns.

We'll see if "what you think" comes to pass, excuse-wise.

[Detale]

Ahhh, ok guys I'm not really taking a side here, I'm just saying things aren't as simple as you are trying to make them seem. "Oh bush did this" "Oh bush is a moron" These things are easy to say from our point of view. Do you guys honestly think that we have all the information? Do you think we know more than the President does? So without all the facts how can we say he is making bad descisions? I'm sure we can all agree that things go on in our country without the general population knowing about it. Without all the facts how can anyone make an informed descision?

Again as you said Pent, you didn't car because times were good. Just because you didn't care doesn't mean that nothing was wrong. The man lied, he broke the Law. As far as I know Bush hasn't broken any laws. He didn't lie he was misinformed, should he have gotten a better source of info, Sure.

@ Clocker
"if any", sorry didin't mean to write that :idunno: But as far as vacation days go, dude you know as well as I that the president is never really on vacation. He doesn't even have any time off. If something happens at 4AM he gets woken up. So the whole vacation day thing is moot really.

I'll give you this, for some reason I never think of radio outlets, Good one. I'm not sure on the statistics but I would bet that generally more people watch TV then listen to political radio shows. Again don't get me wrong I'm not a Limbaugh guy nor an O'Riley man. Truth be told I did used to watch O'Riley and I did like him when he first started getting big. He did used to let the other side speak and I enjoyed both views, I did. Then he changed I guess things got to his head and he talks over the guest and gets nasty with them and thats not something I like at all. So I don't watch anymore.

We can have different views without getting nasts and resorting to name calling. I mean this is not only on the Republican side either. Hoyer pretty much said when Bush was reelected that the Dem majority would block ANY and ALL bills he would try and pass. This is counterproductive to our country also.

My whole point here is that things aren't as simple as "I'm right and you're wrong" no matter what side you're on. Debating facts doesn't mean anything because we are all basing out opinions on what we are told/read/hear which is mostly all bullshit anyway.

[clocker]

D., your theory gives a free pass to every politician for every/anything they do- the "I'm privy to info you're not" is a universal Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card.
This would have to extend to your cited example of Hoyer, BTW...he knows stuff you don't, so you can't call him out either.

Certainly, given the Bush predilection for spreading false/misleading info, I can see why you would think that everything we are "told/read/hear is mostly bullshit" but guess what?- time was when the public wasn't lied to and talked down to.
Maybe that time will return.
I for one certainly hope so.

[j2k4]

Meanwhile, on the news front:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454536,00.html

Maybe Barry ought to give him a ring and negotiate a non-rancorous working relationship, and maybe exchange hummus recipes. :whistling

[clocker]

Or maybe "Barry" will capture/kill-the-fuck out of him, which is what he says he's going to do.
Ya know, since GWB didn't get around to it.

[devilsadvocate]

Certainly, given the Bush predilection for spreading false/misleading info, I can see why you would think that everything we are "told/read/hear is mostly bullshit" but guess what?- time was when the public wasn't lied to and talked down to.
Maybe that time will return.
I for one certainly hope so.

Perhaps we are just talking levels here but I'm not so sure I can agree that there was a time when we weren't lied to or talked down to.
I think past administrations were certainly less obvious and perhaps had the benefit of not having youtube broadcasting every gotcha moment to such wide audiences.

[j2k4]

Or maybe "Barry" will capture/kill-the-fuck out of him, which is what he says he's going to do.
Ya know, since GWB didn't get around to it.

Yeah - kill him until he dies from it.

No, Barry would be obligated (until the terms of, "I'm not Bush - Hope - Change") to 1: turn him over to the ICC, as Gitmo will be closed, or 2: Bring him stateside and ensconce him in luxury to await trial - a speedy one, into the bargain, with a team of high-priced (and tax-payer funded) lawyers led by Ramsey Clark, and televised around the world, from a courtroom hosting the entire U.N. Human Rights Counsel and a complement of ACLU lawyers to provide oversight and legal commentary.

My guess, anyhoo. :whistling

[Detale]

D., your theory gives a free pass to every politician for every/anything they do- the "I'm privy to info you're not" is a universal Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card.
This would have to extend to your cited example of Hoyer, BTW...he knows stuff you don't, so you can't call him out either.

Certainly, given the Bush predilection for spreading false/misleading info, I can see why you would think that everything we are "told/read/hear is mostly bullshit" but guess what?- time was when the public wasn't lied to and talked down to.
Maybe that time will return.
I for one certainly hope so.

Maybe it is an excuse but that's a major problem in politics. Of course I do mean to a degree, What degree? Who knows man. Again it's just a theory.
As far as Hoyer I saw him say it on the TV :)

Dude you are one of the smartest and decent guys I know on the interwebs. So I ask this in all honesty When the hell was the American public not lied to or kept in the dark??

[clocker]

Two (semi) recent Presidents who I feel were more honest with the public than usual would be Eisenhower and Carter.

[Detale]

Oh shit man, your age is showing :P

[clocker]

It's not like I try to hide it.

[j2k4]

Two (semi) recent Presidents who I feel were more honest with the public than usual would be Eisenhower and Carter.


I'm curious.

Which of the two would you say practiced honesty/open-ness to greater benefit?

Also:

Would Carter be your favorite of the two?

[DannyGnXz]

Honesty, didn't work very well in Carter's benefit as he was not elected for a second term.

[Detale]

Two (semi) recent Presidents who I feel were more honest with the public than usual would be Eisenhower and Carter.

Another thing bro, "more honest" does not mean honest. We could say Bill Clinton was more honest than Oliver North meanwhile they were both full of shit.

[j2k4]

Two (semi) recent Presidents who I feel were more honest with the public than usual would be Eisenhower and Carter.

Another thing bro, "more honest" does not mean honest. We could say Bill Clinton was more honest than Oliver North meanwhile they were both full of shit.

Damned inconvenient for the Clintonites that you noticed.

What's really cool about it is someone (anyone?) will be along shortly to inform you that you are full-of-shit, thereby demonstrating their peculiar partisan-style tolerance.

Among liberals, I think it's known as, "separation of goose and gander". :whistling

[Detale]

You lost me. Something thats pretty easy to do. :huh:

[j2k4]

It's really quite simple.

Clinton was a democrat.

North was just a criminal - a republican criminal.

What is good for the goose (Clinton) is not good for the gander (North).

In other words, things that reflect poorly on republicans are resume enhancers for democrats.

See?

[clocker]

You lost me. Something thats pretty easy to do. :huh:



In other words, things that reflect poorly on republicans are resume enhancers for democrats.

See?
Just so.
Selling weapons to Iran=prevaricating about a blow job.

You see D., Republicans frequently equate arms deals to rogue states with sex.
It's kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" sorta thang.

Didn't really work out too well for them so now they just molest Senate pages and frequent public restrooms.
Jury is still out on whether or not this is an improvement.

[j2k4]

In other words, things that reflect poorly on republicans are resume enhancers for democrats.

See?
Just so.
Selling weapons to Iran=prevaricating about a blow job.

You see D., Republicans frequently equate arms deals to rogue states with sex.
It's kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" sorta thang.

Didn't really work out too well for them so now they just molest Senate pages and frequent public restrooms.
Jury is still out on whether or not this is an improvement.

You miss my point.

Liberals and their media (everything but talk radio, truth) don't judge democrat trespass as being nearly on par with that of republicans.

That's just a fact.

Even now, Clinton's peccadilloes are all but forgotten.

We may soon be revisiting those of his administration, however, as it is reconstituted under Barry-O.

[pentomato]

Just so.
Selling weapons to Iran=prevaricating about a blow job.

You see D., Republicans frequently equate arms deals to rogue states with sex.
It's kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" sorta thang.

Didn't really work out too well for them so now they just molest Senate pages and frequent public restrooms.
Jury is still out on whether or not this is an improvement.

You miss my point.

Liberals and their media (everything but talk radio, truth) don't judge democrat trespass as being nearly on par with that of republicans.

That's just a fact.

Even now, Clinton's peccadilloes are all but forgotten.

We may soon be revisiting those of his administration, however, as it is reconstituted under Barry-O.

You are the one missing the point, it seems to me that republicans are all about knowing what everybody does in bed, when most of them have affairs in their youthfull years (Henry Hide) and he was in his 40's, Newt the Grinch lied under oath in his divorce I believe and the next speaker of the house another lier, he had to resign. They wanted Clinton to resign and they were doing it theirselves.
I could care less if Clinton used a cigar with Monica, I could care less if he had an affair, that's between him and his wife period, get over it.
Clinton never betrayed the country, your beloved Ronal Regan did, and if you tell me he didn't know about Iran contras, well he had to be dumber than Bush.

[clocker]

You miss my point.


No, I didn't...I don't agree with your point, which is not the same thing.