Question on PC temperatures!

[stoi]

OK my PC keeps crashing, BSOD, now i dont think its the temperatures, but more of a problem with Vista and my GFX card.

But I have 4 gig ram, so dont want to go back to XP (even though i do have it installed as a dual boot on another drive) and i have heard that XP 64bit is worse than Vista 64bit.

So my Specs and Temperatures. (nothing has been OC, or changed, and this is now, at idle all I am doing is typing this)

Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BWA Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower.

QX6700 Kentsfield
This is running at 66 63 62 62 at idle according to real temp

Asus P5N32 - SLI Premium Wifi edition
52c according to PC probe

BFG Geforce 8800 GTX 768meg ram

running at 72c according to expertool

4 gig ddr2 ram

650watt PSU (no idea on make though)

3 sata HDDs, 320gig (XP on), 400 gig (Vista on), 1TB (backup drive)

1 external Seagate Freeagent 750gig usb

(and i am still running out of space lol)

Vista Ultimate 64 bit

So i am just wondering if those temps are the norm, or if something is desperately wrong here and i need to sort it out ASAP.

I bought this pre-built, but I am considering building my own next year, just cant afford it yet.

cheers

[Disme]

Your GFX-card must certainly be able to handle 72°c ... some of them go up till 90-95° without problems.

I guess it could be your PSU that is to weak for your box.

[Cabalo]

your QX temps are kinda high.

how long have you installed it? did they use thermal paste correctly?

cuz 62C is a LOT for idle on those chips.
probably a problem on the contact between the cooler and the cpu, imo.

other than that, it can be the classical: do u have the latest mobo and gfx drivers installed ?

i use Vista64 daily and it's rock stable.

[Josh]

ur mobo temp seems very high as well is it well ventilated

[apextwin146]

Have u installed any Fans (90 or 120 mm) ones?

[stoi]

As i said i have not installed any fans apart from what it came with.

Front, side window. back.

I have just gave it a good clean out, and the temps are now a bit lower

56 54 52 53 for the CPU

67 for the GPU

45 for the Mobo.

The dust behind the dust grill on the front fan was silly, so hopefully that helps.

But the problem i am having with the BSOD is a well known one, well loads of people seem to be having it

nvlddmkm-sys

keeps BSOD my PC when i play a game, or watch a movie

http://www.driverheaven.net/vista-nvidia-display-drivers/152790-how-solve-nvlddmkm-sys.html

as you can see, so i am not alone in that.

I have just noticed that there is a new Nvidia driver in my windows updates, so i may install that in a minute.

[clocker]

Your temps are about twice as high as they should be.
Whether or not a new video driver solves your BSOD issue, you should look into why this might be.

[Bobbius5000]

The GPU temp is fine, it's the CPU temp you should be concerned about, that's pretty damn high.

Don't install new graphics drivers via windows update! Download the latest ones from nvidias website :)

[clocker]

The GPU temp is fine, it's the CPU temp you should be concerned about, that's pretty damn high.


I would disagree- about the GPU.

I recently converted back to aircooling from water and the CPU idles in the mid-twenty degree range and the GPU in the mid thirties (8800GT, overclocked).
Admittedly, I'm using an aftermarket Zalman cooler on the card but even so, I don't think the stock coolers are that bad, are they?

[Detale]

My EVGA 8800 idles around 50-something almost always (well, she did RIP). Stoi, is it possible for you to check and make sure your CPU cooler is making contact with the chip? Can you take off the cooler and check the thermal paste to make sure it's getting squished? What about a fresh install of the OS? Then you can start anew and check one thing at a time to see whats up.

[anoneemuse]

first things first ... this is what i will do in XP , i hope its not much different in vista

go to , my computer - properties - advanced -startup and recovery settings - uncheck automatically restart ..

then go to start - run - Eventvwr.msc .. check your system and application event log

then google the event id's with red triangle ..


(someone translate those into vista)

[Bobbius5000]

The GPU temp is fine, it's the CPU temp you should be concerned about, that's pretty damn high.


I would disagree- about the GPU.

I recently converted back to aircooling from water and the CPU idles in the mid-twenty degree range and the GPU in the mid thirties (8800GT, overclocked).
Admittedly, I'm using an aftermarket Zalman cooler on the card but even so, I don't think the stock coolers are that bad, are they?


GPU's can handle much higher temps than CPU's, I seem to recall that certain graphics chips could go over 90 degrees centigrade before they died, but I know that the limit for my AM2 6000+ the "die" temp is in the the mid 60's. Although with my watercooling system i've never seen my CPU go over 40 degrees centigrade at max load, overclocked, in a warm room ;)

Stock cooling depends what brand of card you get, how big your case is, how well ventilated said case is, and what other components are close. I know one of my old air CPU coolers dissipated the warm air all around it (Good idea in theory - but it always ran hot), with my GPU right next to it. as a result, my old 6600GT used to run pretty hot as it was having warm air blown onto it all the time. (Ahhh, back in the day...) I always got BSODded and never understood why (Until I researched it... much like you're doing now stoi) I re-arranged all my wires in the case so air could flow better, changed my CPU cooler and added some extra fans on the front and back. Then it worked fine.

Edit: In regards to thermal paste, you have to be very careful when you're doing this stuff. Make sure no contaminents get in, like dust.
One of the main things peple do wrong is put TOO MUCH thermal paste on - this ends up doing more bad then good. You only need a very small amount; the heatsink should be pressed very firmly up against the CPU and the paste will dissipate out to fill in all the cracks.
If you've messed this up, you can clear it off with a special solvent or alcohol (dont start pouring vodka on it - not that kind of alcohol :P) to gently clean it, then put a fresh coat on.

[clocker]

GPU's can handle much higher temps than CPU's, I seem to recall that certain graphics chips could go over 90 degrees centigrade before they died...
I am aware of that but his GPU is apparently idling at 72° (or 67°, depending on which post you go by), which leaves very little headroom when the card is actually working.

His CPU idle temps also strike me as excessive- especially if the chip is running stock speed (which he hasn't mentioned), the combination would lead me to suspect something is horribly wrong with the case airflow.

Stoi...what happens if you remove the sidepanels and run the case open?

[stoi]

OK everything is at stock lvls, i even had to remove the Battery from the Mobo last night as my PC just kept turning itself off before it even got to windows.

my CPU is running at 2.66mhz which is stock.

According to PC Probe 2 my temps are

CPU 47
Mobo 43

According to realtemp it is

55 52 50 51

Distance to TJ max is (whatever that is)

31 32 35 34

and according to EXPERtool my GPU is

65 with fixed 100% fan speed.

as for doing anything intricate with this, like check the cooling and thermal paste, I have never done anything like that in my life lol.

and again i am not really doing anything, a few windows explorer windows open and my browser to type this.

but i have read that the GPU is Normal.

I may try the open case next, but i have read that can cause more harm than good if you have a front fan, which i do. but i have got the front door open (not the inside front door though) so all the air it can get it is getting.

[clocker]

Pull the sidepanels.

Chance are your front fan is doing nothing.

[stoi]

OK just taken the side panel off (the window/fan panel) about 10 minutes ago. temps are now

According to PC Probe 2 my temps are

CPU 39
Mobo 37

According to realtemp it is

46 45 43 43

Distance to TJ max is (whatever that is)

38 40 42 42

and according to EXPERtool my GPU is

58 with fixed 100% fan speed.

and the front fan, if i put my hand to the side (so to where the panel should be) i can feel the air, if i put my hand behind the 3 hdds (so where is should be blasting it) there is hardley any air at all.

I doubt its the hdds that are blocking the air as its supposed to hold 5 (but i can only fit 3 with my gfx card) but it does seem it is those that are causing a problem (but i could be wrong lol)

[clocker]

OK, now you're getting somewhere.
The next step is to run the PC for a while and see if the BSODs stop.

With the exception of the CM Stacker (the original, not all the gawdawful variants that followed), I've never seen a case that came stock with decent aircooling.
The front fan might be doing an OK job cooling the harddrives (Everest would tell you that) but is clearly failing to bring in enough air to reach beyond the drive cage.

Unfortunately, improving the situation takes the willingness to cut the case, lots of trial and error and/or replacing the case altogether.
Alternatively, you can just run with the sidepanel(s) off.

Naturally, all this is predicated on the assumption that heat was the root cause of your problem to begin with...something we have yet to confirm.

[stoi]

Well touch wood, since i updated my driver last night, i have not had a crash (mind you i have not really done anything apart from watch 1 film), but like i said previously, a hell of a lot of people were/are getting that BSOD so I do not think it was the heat that was causing that.

but obviously if i can get the temps down anyway, it cant hurt.

[Detale]

You should try, if you have time, to get the temps down anyway homie

[stoi]

well i have all the time in the world, its just the skills and knowhow (and cash if it needs it) that im lacking a lot off lol

[clocker]

Well, good luck.

[Detale]

With the exception of the CM Stacker (the original, not all the gawdawful variants that followed), I've never seen a case that came stock with decent aircooling.

Antec 900 FTW!!

@Stoi did you remove the cpu cooler to see if it's making contact with the Chip??

[stoi]

With the exception of the CM Stacker (the original, not all the gawdawful variants that followed), I've never seen a case that came stock with decent aircooling.

Antec 900 FTW!!

@Stoi did you remove the cpu cooler to see if it's making contact with the Chip??

I have never touched that part of it, and dont really want to tbh, anything i touch seems to blow up lol and i have never done anything like that before, so putting off for as long as i can (after i get a new pc preferably lol)

[Josh]

Glad to hear things seem to be getting better stoi

[Detale]

Antec 900 FTW!!

@Stoi did you remove the cpu cooler to see if it's making contact with the Chip??

I have never touched that part of it, and dont really want to tbh, anything i touch seems to blow up lol and i have never done anything like that before, so putting off for as long as i can (after i get a new pc preferably lol)

Build you own man!!! we can coach you it's easy as pie bro.

[stoi]

Well i was planning to, but tbh, the parts I was looking at, are very very expensive, may as well just keep this as it plays everything fine (when it doesnt BSOD that is).

I am not going to pay £800-£1300 for 1 CPU thats for sure, or £400 for a mobo. which tbh are not "that" much better than this.

[Detale]

No they're not, you have some orsum HW there man, Shirley. I mis read your post I thought you said you were getting a new PC, you certainly don't need one for a while. Maybe just do a re-install that usually fixes all the small headaches for me :)

[stoi]

Well it does look like resetting the mobo or the new gfx driver worked for the BSOD not 1 crash in 72 hours, usually its 5 a day at least. so hopefully i wont need to reinstall.

I just need to play a game for a couple of hours, and that will tell me for sure.

as for a new PC, I may just add onto this one.

I have got 8gig of OCZ Reaper X HPC PC26400 ram (4* 2 gig sticks) just sitting here, but i cant install it as it wont fit into my mobo, i need the next mobo up so it will fit, the huge heatsinks on them is the problem.

So what i may do it, Buy a case, I am looking at these cases

Thermaltake Armour VA8003BWS Black Full Tower Windowed Case
Antec 1200 Twelve Hundred Full Tower Case
Coolermaster HAF 932 Full Tower Case - High Air Flow Design
Coolermaster Cosmos S Black
Lian Li PC-80B ArmorSuit Black Aluminium Full Tower Case - 12x 5.25\" Bays
Lian Li PC-X2000

A good PSU no idea which one.

A better Mobo to fit this ram

Keep the CPU

Keep the HDDs, but buy more depending on case i get.

and get another 8800GTX and SLI them

but it will be buy 1 thing every 2 months or so, so it will be xmas next year when it is finished at the earliest lol

[Cabalo]

just one thing, have u rose your PCI-E frequency from 100 to 101 ? many times it solves those compatibility problems.

one more thing that came to my mind: do you have the latest BIOS version installed in your mobo ?

[Detale]

The 1200 is also a good case, the antec 900 being my second favorite next to the Silverstone TJ07 , but do you really need a full atx tower? It's HUGE if you don't why not get the antec 900

[stoi]

Well.. maybe i am doing something wrong, but this case i have, tsunami dream, struggles to fit 1 8800GTX in with the HDDs i have, never mind 2.

Its just to long, the card that is, and no way i can fit another 2 hdds in where they are supposed to go, especially with the connections as well.

Thats why i like the X2000 as the HDDs go underneath, but then it only holds 6, so looking at the 80b which holds 12.

I only have 3 atm, but cant fit anymore in this case like i said, so had to buy an external. and i still need more space.

I go on downloading sprees on NG, lately all the NDS games, 150 PSP games +more a lot more i want to download, 400gig of HD Movies, 300gig of Wii games.

I just queue them all up in usenet, and let them download in a couple of days, i can just never be arsed to burn them off quick enough lol

so the main thing for me is more storage, i think even if i have 12TB of storage it would be full in a matter of weeks lol

and yes i have got the latest bios, but i have played a game, watched films, and no BSOD, so it looks like its fixed :)

[Detale]

I know what you mean in my Antec 900 space was tight between the GFX card and the HDD's but I used some right angle SATA cables.

Have you looked at the Silverstone TJ07? My recent purchase and I LOVE it (Thanks again Clocker)all aluminum TONS of fans and LOADS of space especially if you're not water cooling anything

http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-163-067-08.jpg
http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-163-067-07.jpg
6 drive bays down below and if need be you could use 5 out of the 6 up top(but you would need to get some 5 1/4" to 3 1/2" reducers)

I can honestly say this is the highest quality case I have owned to date and roomy?? You could park a Dodge in there ;)

[stoi]

well Ebuyer dont sell those, and on ebay.co.uk they are the same price in pounds as newegg has them in dollars lol



Thermaltake Xaser Vi VG400LBWS Water cooled PC case

I have just seen that though which looks promising.

no idea lol, its going to have to wait until after xmas anyway, kids come first or its a divorce lol so i had better hold off for a couple of months, prices may have dropped through the floor by then (hopefully)

[Detale]

I looked up the TT case and see many places selling it with a WC kit what are the specs on the WC kit you were looking at?

I did a quick search and came up with this place here
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1241.html
They have the TJ07 for:
Price: £189.79 £223.00 Inc VAT at 17.5%

Whatever the HELL that means but either price is way better than newegg223.00 EUR=282.710 USD

[stoi]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160256449880&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=160261832612&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m184&_trkparms=algo%3DDR%26its%3DS%252BI%252BSS%26itu%3DISS%252BUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D4

thats the one i seen

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160195365472&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=160256449880&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m184&_trkparms=algo%3DDR%26its%3DS%252BI%252BSS%26itu%3DISS%252BUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D4

but that one caught my eye as well.

suppose i am just dreaming atm lol i will probably end up either just staying with this one, or getting one that is not much better knowing me lol

[Detale]

Well do like me man, save the pennies or whatever you have left over from Xmas and then pounce when the wife isn't looking. God I hope she doesn't see this

[colombianino]

i would go with the TJ07. though your problem seems to be caused by overheat, you could try adding additional fans too.

ps: i wouldn't try anything flashy (with neon lights, etc) the Wi-Fi adapter's little blue light already bothers me enough to sleep. unless it doesn't bother you at all, but that being made all out of aluminum and having 4 fans already in the case is a plus.

[clocker]

Although I still believe that the TJ07 is a great case, it's total overkill for most systems due to it's size and expense.
If money is not a problem and you like the look, then by all means, go for it.
Otherwise, there are other options that can be just as- and arguably, even more- effective for a lot less money.

[Detale]

like....

[clocker]

Otherwise, there are other options that can be just as- and arguably, even more- effective for a lot less money.


like....
Depends on the hardware.
Everything depends on the hardware.

In general, we do things completely back-asswards during a build...and yes, this includes me.

Typically, everything gets ordered at once, assembled, up and running and then try to figure out how to cool it.
Throw an aftermarket cooler (or coolers) at it, maybe add a fan or two, maybe even hack the case to add more fans.

It would be more logical to assemble the hardware outside the case, run it and see what you actually have to deal with and then pick an appropriate enclosure and heatsinks.

Furthermore, just look at the TJ07...when was the last time you saw a running PC that needed seven slots for optical drives?
Used to be that it made sense to have a ROM and a burner- burners were expensive so you saved it for when you actually needed it and used the ROM for everything else.
Now that you can get a good burner for under $30, there's no point to this strategy...for most people, one optical drive is all that's necessary.
That leaves six open slots empty, a lot of wasted space.

Let's talk about cooling.
We'll ignore watercooling FTM since it's such a fringe market.
I see many cases these days with fans all over the place, a graphic example of "the more the merrier" theory of cooling.
"Case airflow" is the holy grail of aircooling.

Bah, humbug.
Do you know how many fans- and how powerful they have to be- to actually achieve those darling flow patterns that case makers like to illustrate with all those blue and red arrows?
A metric buttload, that's how many.

Here is one of the first cases I really got down and dirty with...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/sprocketback.jpg

Those fans are 120 x 38mm Comair Rotrons- each rated at 150cfm- and this pic only shows four of 'em...there were 2 more at the front and one more on the other side. They don't run off the PC's PSU either, they were 110v units that plug directly into the wall.
Now that case had some airflow.

It also sounded like a Sikorsky helicopter was in the room and would suck up and atomize a cat from 10' away.
All in all, not a terribly successful project.
Especially from the cat's (R.I.P.) viewpoint.

Here's what Thermaltake says about Stoi's case...

Thermaltake is a respected leader in computer thermal solutions technology. Thermaltake has increasingly enjoyed the adoption of its thermal strategies by OEM and ODM companies worldwide. Its engineers are masters of airflow analysis, material conductivity and efficiency design. Thermaltake's unwavering devotion to quality and customer satisfaction has earned its products the approval of computer enthusiasts everywhere.

PRODUCT FEATURES:

Highly efficient ventilation;
Mirror coating;
Dual USB 2.0, IEEE 1394 FireWire, Audio & Speaker ports;
Ultra light;
Lockable safety side-panel;
Retractable foot stand.

Now, compare that to what Stoi says about the "airflow"...

and the front fan, if i put my hand to the side (so to where the panel should be) i can feel the air, if i put my hand behind the 3 hdds (so where is should be blasting it) there is hardley any air at all.
Airflow, my ass.
That front fan is probably doing an OK job of cooling the hard drives but beyond that, it's useless.

So, what case do I recommend?
I don't...the whole point of this screed is to demonstrate that each PC is different and until you know what you're dealing with you can't really make an educated guess.

Took me while to get to the point, didn't it?

[stoi]

Well this is what i have now. (brackets are what i may upgrade to on a budget)

Tsunami Dream Case (not a clue)
PSU Sweex 650watt (1000 watt at least, could go higher, probably enermax)
P5N32-SLI Premium WI-FI Edition (budget next one up, striker extreme, non budget, not to sure).
Core 2 Extreme Q6700 2.66ghz kentsfield (probably just stick with this one)
4* 1 gig DDR2 PQI Corp memory Dual Channel
according to CPUZ it is.

Dram Frequency = 333.3mhz
FSB:DRAM = 4:5
CL = 5.0 clocks
tRCD = 5 clocks
tRP = 5 clocks
tRAS = 15 clocks
tRC = 20 clocks

(Upgrade to 4 * 2 gig OCZ Reaper X HPC DDR2 PC2 6400 4-4-3)

1 * BFG 8800GTX 758meg ram (upgrade to 2)

3 Sata HDDs, 1 * 400gig, 1 * 320 gig 1 * 1TB
(Upgrade to as many as i can)

So i think that is about it lol, not sure if it will help any or not though.

ah yeah, i wouldnt mind space for a Pioneer DVDrw and a Blu Ray Burner (the latter will be for the upgrade, i have the former already, but i do not need 5 or 7 or whatever)

[clocker]

OK, so what-if anything- are you asking now?

Apparently you got the BSOD problem under control, right?

[stoi]

Yeah BSOD is fine. I need more HDD space thpugh, and another gfx card, and may as well get a new Mobo to fit this Ram in I bought if i am going to do it anyway.

btw i had had the side door off since this thread virtuallt began.

CPU = 40-44c I do have FM2009 running though
Mobo = 37c
GPU = 60c

I suppose this has changed from a BSOD Overheating issue to whats the best case to get for storage lol

[clocker]

Personally, I've had to rethink my storage situation since I started collecting movies.

I've just about decided that the way to go is an external drive dock, like this. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817392022)

Basically, you now treat a hard drive like a DVD...pop it in and access.
No more opening the case, wiring in a drive, etc.
Seems like a very flexible way to deal with constantly expanding storage requirements.