Why do traders cheat?

[spark]

Isn't being a trader bad enough?
It's a fact that most of the traders cheat in order to get invites/buffers so they can trade them..

so odd and sad :cry:

[bgh520]

what cheat ?

[db_la_23]

they cheat becoz they r jobless people

[Detale]

What fact are you quoting that most traders cheat? There is only an opinion on this not and study done, no stats on it. It's a little defamatory really. Without proof, I mean real proof to say that most traders are cheaters really isn't responsible.

[binocular]

No trader trades without fraud.:whistling:

[Villalltheway]

What fact are you quoting that most traders cheat? There is only an opinion on this not and study done, no stats on it. It's a little defamatory really. Without proof, I mean real proof to say that most traders are cheaters really isn't responsible.

Got to agree what proof do u have, or are u just assuming this statement.

[spark]

prove me wrong and name a single cheater who does not trade

[Night0wl]

prove me wrong and name a single cheater who does not trade

Well shouldn't it be "why do cheaters trade?" then?

[spark]

prove me wrong and name a single cheater who does not trade

Well shouldn't it be "why do cheaters trade?" then?

cheaters and traders are two sides of the same coin

[puckface]

prove me wrong and name a single cheater who does not trade

Isnt it why do traders cheat? Now Im all confused.

traders=cheater does not equal cheater=trader

if it does please point out some proof to your statement

[peat moss]

Because they can .

[Dr_Green_Thumb]

I used to trade back in the day and I have never cheated but I think if you talk to any BT admin or FLS they will tell you that traders and cheaters go hand in hand.

[Something Else]

Scum. Sub-human scum. :no:

[Sanka113]

Yeah the whole "most traders probably cheat" theory is pretty listless unless you've got hard facts. Now, most cheaters probably cheat so that they can trade their large buffered accounts for more trade bait. While trading puts a person's account at risk cheating is even more of a risk. Most traders probably want to keep their accounts around so they have invites to trade.

[Detale]

prove me wrong and name a single cheater who does not trade
I don't have to prove you wrong this is your statement to defend :). As others have noted Maybe cheaters trade but traders don't necessarily cheat. I traded when I first started out and have never cheated or lied about it.





Well shouldn't it be "why do cheaters trade?" then?

cheaters and traders are two sides of the same coin
No they're not. Cheaters are intentionally doing something dishonest. Traders, while most I believe know full well what they are doing, some are simply misguided and don't know any better. Not to mention if they are trading invites from trackers that don't care if they are traded then they are breaking no rules anywhere. The subject which I have debated on a bizillion times already is waay too vast and has too many points on both sides for you to simply say traders and cheaters are the same. It simply isn't true dude.

[sheriff 01]

My question to anyone here is why would anyone even give a rats ass if a trader cheats anyway. The fact that it bothers some people
only means that the trader-cheater has had victory over you because he has made you upset. Just let it all go and ignore the trader-cheaters
as best as you can and focus more on positive things and enjoy life.

[stitched]

all cheaters might trade but all traders dont cheat....
ur statement is like A knows B ,B knows C , so A knows C...which is not true, they teach this in highschool maths and u want proof for that ,
i have read a lot of accusation about traders being this....traders being that....but this is first of its kind. i am pretty sure even some of the anti-traders would disagree u on this or may be not but it doesnt matter.

i am a trader i am there in quiet a few torrent sites and i havent cheated,unless u prove that every single one of the traders have cheated u should refrain form making such a generalization. i guess without topics like this there wouldnt be much fun in fst... it always ends in stale mate

[Skiz]

I don't have to prove you wrong this is your statement to defend :).

Exactly.

This is a popular tactic amongst religious zealots and conspiracy theorists. Some people are open to any possibility, and honestly examine all evidence in a rational manner to come to a conclusion, followed by a moral evaluation. Others start with a desire for a specific moral evaluation, and then work backwards assembling any fact that supports them, and dismissing any fact that does not.

It's an illusion of coherence and little more. :dabs:

[jasperr]

you guys talk about proof.... what proof would you consider to be anywheres remotely accurate... Detale mentioned about studies... that would be an interesting one to follow... BUt, then again how many people would participate and be truthful while doing it? ..O.o

[Detale]

Exactly my point! There is no way you could survey anywhere near the entire populous of the trader community of the world. This is why its an absurd thing to say as you could never have valid or accurate proof. ;)

[jasperr]

you wouldn't need to survey the whole population........ just a small number and then calculate a percentage based off that... isn't that how they do any other survey... ??
However i'll have to agree with Detale, it still wouldn't be feasible nor would it be accepted ......... it still would be interesting though

[albcoe]

What fact are you quoting that most traders cheat? There is only an opinion on this not and study done, no stats on it. It's a little defamatory really. Without proof, I mean real proof to say that most traders are cheaters really isn't responsible.
Agree

[Skiz]

you wouldn't need to survey the whole population........ just a small number and then calculate a percentage based off that... isn't that how they do any other survey... ??
However i'll have to agree with Detale, it still wouldn't be feasible nor would it be accepted ......... it still would be interesting though

That wouldn't even be accurate. There are several countries (no need to mention them and risk offending someone) which are renowned for having slow Internet speeds. Those countries will naturally have a higher percentage of users who are willing to cheat. It would have to be a global survey or none at all, but again, it's an impossibility.

[crimsonhaze]

Isn't being a trader bad enough?
It's a fact that most of the traders cheat in order to get invites/buffers so they can trade them..

so odd and sad :cry:

Why do traders cheat? Well, why do pirates cheat the entertainment industry?

You'll notice a particular rule every torrent site has to prevent them from facing prosecution: "You must have legal rights to the file you are uploading." Videos on youtube get taken down, but not on trackers.

Guess what, we're all cheaters, and thus, are scum to the entertainment industry. The cheaters YOU'RE referring to are the bastard child of piracy.

[hoodeh]

Why do traders cheat? :huh:
Well first off that's a question that can't be answered correctly, as it is not well put.
I think what you're trying to say is
"Why do SOME traders cheat?"
or, depending on the percentage of traders that cheat,
"Why do MOST traders cheat?"

Well there isn't much of an opinion to have about cheating. It's just wrong. It's bad and of course it pisses us all off, like the guy that robs a bank when you're working your ass off like everybody else.
I guess there will always be people braking the rules. That's just how it goes. I think sherif 01 has a good opinion about that matter. It's best to just ignore the cheaters, I mean make sure they can't cheat but also not let it get to you in a negative way. Some things we just can't change, only improve.

Trading however is a whole different matter. I personnaly think it's wrong because it has this selfish thing to it. Like "I won't give you anything unless you give me something aswell". That's just not what file sharing is about.

[Skiz]

Isn't being a trader bad enough?
It's a fact that most of the traders cheat in order to get invites/buffers so they can trade them..

so odd and sad :cry:

Why do traders cheat? Well, why do pirates cheat the entertainment industry?

You'll notice a particular rule every torrent site has to prevent them from facing prosecution: "You must have legal rights to the file you are uploading." Videos on youtube get taken down, but not on trackers.

Guess what, we're all cheaters, and thus, are scum to the entertainment industry. The cheaters YOU'RE referring to are the bastard child of piracy.

If you knew what she was referring to, why not simply answer the question at hand then? :dabs:

[spark]

If you knew what she was referring to, why not simply answer the question at hand then? :dabs:

would u marry me?

[basilhaydens]

I'm a trader who doesn't cheat. Hell, I even have multiple accounts in many places, but I've never committed anything fraudulent and I've never cheated on my ratio.

[crimsonhaze]

If you knew what she was referring to, why not simply answer the question at hand then? :dabs:

Part of the package is what I meant. Entertainment industry comes with pirates which comes with cheaters. You can't build a city without prisons or cemetaries, just like trackers without warnings and bans.

[dinko]

cheaters and traders are two sides of the same coin

how can ?

person A - doing some apps to skip script & fool tracker somehow to gain big ratio .......a cheater with biggg e-penis

person B - gets collect invites from friends,staff or by any other way & sell it to gain cash ...... a trader with big cash .


so for person B - it's not necessary to cheat always , may be to get invite he/she offered inviter seed box or may be helped some way & got confidence .

while person A - it's just to get enlargement operation to satisfy his/her ego , he don't gain any cash advance it that person B can gain .

:rolleyes:

[mrnobody]

all traders don't cheat (cheat as in ratio cheating) but they do cheat entire bt community by trading accounts, misusing buffers, holding dupe accounts, inviting random trade partners who likely is a bad apple (ratio cheater, invite seller, hit and runner, and a trader at least).




traders=cheater does not equal cheater=trader


but you're saying they are already equal "=" :P



traders => cheaters =/ cheater => trader

[puckface]

all traders don't cheat (cheat as in ratio cheating) but they do cheat entire bt community by trading accounts, misusing buffers, holding dupe accounts, inviting random trade partners who likely is a bad apple (ratio cheater, invite seller, hit and runner, and a trader at least).




traders=cheater does not equal cheater=trader


but you're saying they are already equal "=" :P

traders => cheaters =/ cheater => trader



=/ is the same as does not equal.... thats what I wrote. Also, I do not a see a difference between a trader and a person who gives invites away at will.



I'm a trader who doesn't cheat. Hell, I even have multiple accounts in many places, but I've never committed anything fraudulent and I've never cheated on my ratio.

Edited by D

what a nice boy you are.... now if that doesnt merit a warning or a ban, I dont know what does. Hell I got an infraction for calling someone a bigot.

[john pal]

calm down people because otherwise this thread will be shutdown. in the world we have bad people, good people and people who does not give a sh*t to that. And they exist everywhere in every place. Is not an exclusive of a category. Deal with it by being a better person and try to convince others in a reasonable conversation. But try this on people that are avaiable to listen otherwise leave them talking to the wall.

[That1Guy]

all cheaters might trade but all traders dont cheat....
ur statement is like A knows B ,B knows C , so A knows C...which is not true, they teach this in highschool maths

hehe, thats what I thought of, only I think i learned it in a philosophy class or something.

That being said, Im sure a lot of traders do cheat......I just always figured it was the fastest way for these jackasses to buffer their accounts to trade them.

Also, ppl that think they can trade themselves to the top, are IMO being lazy, not putting in the time, or bandwidth or whatever to get his/her goals. Why would these people stop cutting corners there?

[105802]

I'm a trader who doesn't cheat. Hell, I even have multiple accounts in many places, but I've never committed anything fraudulent and I've never cheated on my ratio.

Edited by D

what a nice boy you are.... now if that doesnt merit a warning or a ban, I dont know what does. Hell I got an infraction for calling someone a bigot.

2 point infraction for flaming someone who has blatant disregard for any trackers rules

i dont understand why he doesnt get banned but i get burnt with a 2 point infraction

lammeeeee

[Detale]

you wouldn't need to survey the whole population........ just a small number and then calculate a percentage based off that... isn't that how they do any other survey... ??
However i'll have to agree with Detale, it still wouldn't be feasible nor would it be accepted ......... it still would be interesting though

Yes this is the way it's done now, they take a small group and survey them but this is why all statistics are irrelevant and bullshit. Without surveying at very least a majority of the parties involved it makes no sense.

Lets say I survey 10 people here at FST and it so happens that 8 of them are from Canada then the stat would say that 80% of our members were Canadians and this is absurdly inaccurate see ;)-Penn and Teller Bullshit-








Edited by D

what a nice boy you are.... now if that doesnt merit a warning or a ban, I dont know what does. Hell I got an infraction for calling someone a bigot.

2 point infraction for flaming someone who has blatant disregard for any trackers rules

i dont understand why he doesnt get banned but i get burnt with a 2 point infraction

lammeeeee
Rule 14 - Mod/Admin Decisions Decisions of the Administrators or Moderators ARE NOT up for public discussion or questioning and any such discussion or questioning will not be tolerated. Complaints concerning moderators or their actions may be discussed with that moderator or brought to the attention of an administrator by means of a Private Message (PM) or create a thread in the Report Section.

If you do this again you will get another infraction, Thanks

[mrnobody]

all traders don't cheat (cheat as in ratio cheating) but they do cheat entire bt community by trading accounts, misusing buffers, holding dupe accounts, inviting random trade partners who likely is a bad apple (ratio cheater, invite seller, hit and runner, and a trader at least).



but you're saying they are already equal "=" :P

traders => cheaters =/ cheater => trader



=/ is the same as does not equal.... thats what I wrote. Also, I do not a see a difference between a trader and a person who gives invites away at will.

i was not comparing =/ with does not equal :blink:

what i was saying was more in the line of...

traders equals "=" cheaters IS same as cheaters equals "=" traders

vs.

traders implies "=>" cheaters IS NOT same as cheaters imples "=>" traders

oh well.

[ghurka]

Much as I dislike the way trading has evolved and grown out of proportion I'd be surprised if nowadays that many of them cheat given the easy access to seedboxes. Several years ago unless you lived in a Scandinavian country you had shit upload speeds so yes some of the traders had to cheat to get invites and buffer their accounts.

So far most of those posting in this thread haven't been traders. I'd like to hear what our most prolific traders have to say about this.

[puckface]

=/ is the same as does not equal.... thats what I wrote. Also, I do not a see a difference between a trader and a person who gives invites away at will.

i was not comparing =/ with does not equal :blink:

what i was saying was more in the line of...

traders equals "=" cheaters IS same as cheaters equals "=" traders

vs.

traders implies "=>" cheaters IS NOT same as cheaters imples "=>" traders

oh well.

miscommunication, now i got it

[danio]

Yes this is the way it's done now, they take a small group and survey them but this is why all statistics are irrelevant and bullshit. Without surveying at very least a majority of the parties involved it makes no sense.

Lets say I survey 10 people here at FST and it so happens that 8 of them are from Canada then the stat would say that 80% of our members were Canadians and this is absurdly inaccurate see ;)-Penn and Teller Bullshit-


Nah, the way statistics work is that a survey has a % of significance depending on the number of respontents there are, and how they are selected.. if you would survey 10 people on FST, the results would have a very low statistical significance. unless you survey everyone, you can never say for sure (100%).. but with a good sample, you might be able to draw a conclusion that might vary lets say +-2.5% of the real value.

[Detale]

Ok and what percent is considered a "good sample"?

[bumrocks]

I think that more people who do not trade attempt to cheat as opposed to those who trade and cheat. Naturally that would be the case since less people trade to begin with. Being that I am neither a trader or cheater I can only guess at what the percentages could be. If I had to guess, I would expect that experienced traders and ones with high "level" accounts don't even think about or consider cheating. Too much to lose. Vice versa, the noob low level trader would be more apt to consider it since they either don't know any better or don't care/can replace tracker easy enough. The latter could easily hold true for a non-trader cheater as well.

Personally, what I do know about ratio cheating is that it is extremely easy to catch. With and without a script. Cheaters are very low on the IQ pole than. You are straight up dumb to attempt it imo.

Therefore, I wish all or most traders were cheaters...Unfortunately, there are a number of "successful" traders and so few successful cheaters. Shit, who knows! Maybe there are successful cheaters but I have never heard those stories.

[danio]

Ok and what percent is considered a "good sample"?

i'm not sure how you calculate the % of certainty so exactly how you should pick a sample on FST, i cannot say :)

but i think somewhere around 95% certainty would be considered good in many cases.. but it depends on how important it is to be precise.

[105802]

Yes this is the way it's done now, they take a small group and survey them but this is why all statistics are irrelevant and bullshit. Without surveying at very least a majority of the parties involved it makes no sense.

Lets say I survey 10 people here at FST and it so happens that 8 of them are from Canada then the stat would say that 80% of our members were Canadians and this is absurdly inaccurate see ;)-Penn and Teller Bullshit-








Edited by D

what a nice boy you are.... now if that doesnt merit a warning or a ban, I dont know what does. Hell I got an infraction for calling someone a bigot.

2 point infraction for flaming someone who has blatant disregard for any trackers rules

i dont understand why he doesnt get banned but i get burnt with a 2 point infraction

lammeeeee
Rule 14 - Mod/Admin Decisions Decisions of the Administrators or Moderators ARE NOT up for public discussion or questioning and any such discussion or questioning will not be tolerated. Complaints concerning moderators or their actions may be discussed with that moderator or brought to the attention of an administrator by means of a Private Message (PM) or create a thread in the Report Section.

If you do this again you will get another infraction, Thanks

like i said in the PM , first time ive ever seen a rule enforced in this place

bravo for doing it to the wrong person though , theres a multi tracker account holding trader there whos off scot free

[puckface]

^ Only problem being... trading isnt against the rules here.

[benficao]

why does water come down from the sky?
why can´t chickens fly?
What came first? The egg or the chicken?

[puckface]

What came first? The egg or the chicken?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/5019682.stm

[Unstable1]

I really disagree with the OP that all traders cheat. I traded a few invites when I first started out but I've never cheated ratio and I never would.

[IdolEyes787]

Ok and what percent is considered a "good sample"?

i'm not sure how you calculate the % of certainty so exactly how you should pick a sample on FST, i cannot say :)

but i think somewhere around 95% certainty would be considered good in many cases.. but it depends on how important it is to be precise.

As part of a Math degree I took statics in school.

As the size of the population increases the sample need for accuracy decreases.In other words if you have a small number of members you would have to poll almost all to get an accurate answer.Conversely for a great number of members you only need a very small number(for the population of the U.S. only something like 1200 as long as it's random)

I did a quick figuring and if FST has 50000 members for +/-5% 380 for 95% confidence. 655 for 99%(nothing is 100%)

[danio]

As part of a Math degree I took statics in school.

As the size of the population increases the sample need for accuracy decreases.In other words if you have a small number of members you would have to poll almost all to get an accurate answer.Conversely for a great number of members you only need a very small number(for the population of the U.S. only something like 1200 as long as it's random)

I did a quick figuring and if FST has 50000 members for +/-5% 380 for 95% confidence. 655 for 99%(nothing is 100%)

damn.. i've taken a statistics course myself, but i can't remember how to calculate the sample size for a certain % confidence interval :S.