Why are trades allowed here?

[crimsoncrow]

Tried searching the forums for the answer, but I didn't find one. When I first joined FST, I was relatively new to the private tracker world. I saw that there was a trade section here and just assumed that trading was the norm and even encouraged.

Imagine my confusion when I started reading users' posts decrying traders. I since learned of the significant tracker safety issues involved in trading, and suddenly the disdain for trading made incredible sense.

Which brings me to my question: Why does there continue to be a trade section here? When virtually every private tracker loathes the idea? And when new users to FST might think nothing of the practice and even hurt their chances at getting into trackers they might be interested in?

[danio]

i guess cause there is still a majority, or atleast a great deal of the userbase here are traders.

[Polarbear]

Why does there continue to be a trade section here? When virtually every private tracker loathes the idea?

because the majority of members came and will come here to trade and get invites to bittorrent sites.

the trade and invite section are fst's main attraction. you wouldn't shut down the most popular rollercoaster in an amusment park, would you?

p.s. in before the lock :P

[Albo Da Kid]

Because Fst would loose a lot of it's userbase if they didn't allow trading. It would also hurt the Bt section and as a result we the whole Fst would turn out like the Lounge.

[IdolEyes787]

because the majority of members came and will come here to trade and get invites to bittorrent sites.

p.s. in before the lock :P

Trading and getting invites are two entirely different things.
Certainly there are people who come here specifically to trade but conversely I doubt that anyone who isn't intent on that already learns that practice here.
Giveaways are another matter. Anyone who has been around long enough knows that it isn't the thing to do but I don't vilify noobs with no other options for looking for a way to get on better trackers.

p.s. you are tempting fate.:ohmy:

Albo there's discussion of having a second lounge that isn't so ....cliquish

[chec]

i wanna answer this queation with another question.if this elite sites opens signups periodicly who can trade.And in this elite trackers i dont know exact persantage, nearly half is good traders.there was one uk-t topic find and see there traders persantage who is in uk-t

[danio]

i wanna answer this queation with another question.if this elite sites opens signups periodicly who can trade.And in this elite trackers i dont know exact persantage, nearly half is good traders.there was one uk-t topic find and see there traders persantage who is in uk-t

um.. i don't really understand what you're asking here. but what do you mean by "good traders"? cause in the trackers' point of view, there are none.

why should trackers that don't want to have open signups have it? if they want to recruit new members by careful selection within their circles, then so be it. the fact that there are a lot of curious people that want to join these trackers who don't know any other way than trading doesn't justify shit. the trackers have no obligations at all in this matter. besides, this doesn't have much to do with the topic anyways.

EDIT: to Albo Da Kid > that sums it up pretty good. however, there are atleast one more aspect that i can think of. take uk-t for example. the reason why they are so closed up is mainly cause of the legal threat.. some trackers want to be restrictive with who they let in in order to maintain their sense of security (false or not)..

[Albo Da Kid]

Just think about it like this.. If everybody was a good member and seeded everything they leached and took care of their accounts(and didn't trade/signup for another account as soon as their ratio hit 0.4), there would be no rarity trackers like Ftn. Ftn is one of the biggest attractions to noobish traders because they look at it as ratio free and they don't have to seed anything.
The bad seeds are what make trackers keep their rarity level up because they only want the good dedicated members in, and that sparks up envines in most because they want to be a part of everything.

What I'd like to say to a few anti-traders who don't know shit about why trading is bad is this: "If you want to help out the BT situation worry about leaching and seeding and not so mmuch on trader hunting. If we were all good members(seeders) there would be no lust for high level trackers right now"

[Polarbear]

Certainly there are people who come here specifically to trade but conversely I doubt that anyone who isn't intent on that already learns that practice here.


what? you gotta be kiddin' me.

if there's one place somebody will learn it, it's here. fst is mainly responsible for all the level thinking and considering invites/accounts as a commodity.

[Albo Da Kid]

Certainly there are people who come here specifically to trade but conversely I doubt that anyone who isn't intent on that already learns that practice here.


what? you gotta be kiddin' me.

fst is mainly responsible for all the level thinking and considering invites/accounts as a commodity.
Yesss. The WTAW thread for example is responsible for a lot of fuckups in the BT community.

[JPaul]

Because Fst would loose a lot of it's userbase if they didn't allow trading. It would also hurt the Bt section and as a result we the whole Fst would turn out like the Lounge.

Don't talk shite, this was a disparate and varied forum long before BT trading was allowed here. The lounge was the lounge and it allowed people to spam if they wanted, meaning that everywhere else tended to stay on topic. So people who wanted to have serious discussions on a variety of topics did just that.

The lounge was made the way it was for that very reason, it was a conscious decision taken by the staff and members and it worked. There's no reason to suggest that it would change without the BT section. Indeed I would argue that the only place outside of the lounge (spam section) where spam occurs is the BT section, with people posting shite to get invites to private trackers.

[IdolEyes787]

Certainly there are people who come here specifically to trade but conversely I doubt that anyone who isn't intent on that already learns that practice here.


what? you gotta be kiddin' me.

if there's one place somebody will learn it, it's here. fst is mainly responsible for all the level thinking and considering invites/accounts as a commodity.

People learn to trade here hardly.They either have that predilection in them or they don't.
Maybe my naivety iis showing again but there is considerably more naysaying here (at least on the surface,and that's all a noob would see)than enabling.

[chec]

Ofcourse to become unique and elite they should act like that.chosing carefully,giving invites to trusted memebers.

Just i mean geting them is like a dream, if you dont know anybody,if you dont have some friend there, without trading entering is imposible.By the way im not supporting traders.lookig from their side.

Everybody wants to have ferrari,you can extend examples

I dont know i can explain myself or not with my 50 worded english



i wanna answer this queation with another question.if this elite sites opens signups periodicly who can trade.And in this elite trackers i dont know exact persantage, nearly half is good traders.there was one uk-t topic find and see there traders persantage who is in uk-t

um.. i don't really understand what you're asking here. but what do you mean by "good traders"? cause in the trackers' point of view, there are none.

why should trackers that don't want to have open signups have it? if they want to recruit new members by careful selection within their circles, then so be it. the fact that there are a lot of curious people that want to join these trackers who don't know any other way than trading doesn't justify shit. the trackers have no obligations at all in this matter. besides, this doesn't have much to do with the topic anyways.

EDIT: to Albo Da Kid > that sums it up pretty good. however, there are atleast one more aspect that i can think of. take uk-t for example. the reason why they are so closed up is mainly cause of the legal threat.. some trackers want to be restrictive with who they let in in order to maintain their sense of security (false or not)..

[Albo Da Kid]

this was a disparate and varied forum long before BT trading was allowed here

Yes and that was before there were 60000+ members. Try and take out the main attraction(trading section) and see what will happen to your "disparate" forum with this many active members. This whole place would turn into a mess including the Bt section. (Maybe the Lounge wont since it's already a dump.)
The main topics would become these kind "Why is ...... such a Cawk" or "My hairy nipples" etc... The Bt part of the forum would loose a lot of value. If you happen to think otherwise give it a try and take out the trading section for a few months.


The lounge was made the way it was for that very reason, it was a conscious decision taken by the staff and members and it worked. There's no reason to suggest that it would change without the BT section.
I didn't say the Lounge was going to change. I said the whole Bt section would become like the Lounge. Matter fact the whole forum.

[Villalltheway]

Because Fst would loose a lot of it's userbase if they didn't allow trading. It would also hurt the Bt section and as a result we the whole Fst would turn out like the Lounge.

Don't talk shite, this was a disparate and varied forum long before BT trading was allowed here. The lounge was the lounge and it allowed people to spam if they wanted, meaning that everywhere else tended to stay on topic. So people who wanted to have serious discussions on a variety of topics did just that.

The lounge was made the way it was for that very reason, it was a conscious decision taken by the staff and members and it worked. There's no reason to suggest that it would change without the BT section. Indeed I would argue that the only place outside of the lounge (spam section) where spam occurs is the BT section, with people posting shite to get invites to private trackers.

U got to be kidding me without the bt section this site would have next to no members, u talk about the lounge would not change ofcourse it would not because there are only a handful of people who use it regulary and they are all the members like with over 5000 posts, and anyone under that threshhold u wont even acknowledged there, so yea u right in a sence because only the same 10 people who use the lounge would continue using it and anyone new who would ever post in there would just get froozen out. So great this site would just be dominated by 10 or so members without the bt section.

[IdolEyes787]

U got to be kidding me without the bt section this site would have next to no members, u talk about the lounge would not change ofcourse it would not because there are only a handful of people who use it regulary and they are all the members like with over 5000 posts, and anyone under that threshhold u wont even acknowledged there, so yea u right in a sence because only the same 10 people who use the lounge would continue using it and anyone new who would ever post in there would just get froozen out. So great this site would just be dominated by 10 or so members without the bt section.

This is not a defense of the lounge but how many sites aren't like that?
If people don't know you most places do they even give you the time of day?

I thought not.

[kallieb]

This is not a defense of the lounge but how many sites aren't like that?
If people don't know you most places do they even give you the time of day?

I thought not.

Some site ofc are terribly cliquish - i grant you that; but I do have to say in my personal experience there are just as many other sites who do make it a point to be very welcoming to all members - new and long-standing. And "new" can be new to torrenting in general and not just new to the site.

my two cents....

[puckface]

Albo there's discussion of having a second lounge that isn't so ....cliquish

They will just take that one over too.

[Artemis]

If everybody was a good member and seeded everything they leached and took care of their accounts(and didn't trade/signup for another account as soon as their ratio hit 0.4), there would be no rarity trackers like Ftn. Ftn is one of the biggest attractions to noobish traders because they look at it as ratio free and they don't have to seed anything.

Not true the frenzy for FtN was stronger long before the tracker became the first to put in place a ratioless policy in fact the userlimit was originally set at 4,000 not 6,000 members and the existing staff were extremely strict on new invitees for a long time with no invites for over 6 months. Trading levels are based on the rarity of the tracker nothing more, by becoming a member of a tracker with a small limited membership that is hard to join people think they have achieved something and are somehow 'elite' or 'special'. Many of those who have these memberships only have them for the trophy value barely keeping the membership ticking over, but rarity in no way is tied into ratio, none of the other 'rare' trackers offer no ratio but they are still highly sought simply because invitations are hard to obtain.


What I'd like to say to a few anti-traders who don't know shit about why trading is bad is this: "If you want to help out the BT situation worry about leaching and seeding and not so mmuch on trader hunting. If we were all good members(seeders) there would be no lust for high level trackers right now"

Now this doesn't make much sense at all. You can define those who are against trading as 1 staff, those whose trackers are directly affected by trading and who do not wish their trackers accounts to be handed around like baseball cards to many anonymous people over & over since accounts are often retraded many times, and 2 those members of trackers who object to trading because they have issues with trading and the other problems it brings (scamming & invite selling), or simply because the members actually care for the trackers and like the staff do not wish to have random anonymous members in the community.
In no way would a good ratio alter trading in any material way whatsoever, that is ludicrous to suggest. As stated before trading is simply based on rarity, so many I have seen over the years go flat out, trade their way to their 'dream tracker' because it is rare and then post how disappointed they are.


Yesss. The WTAW thread for example is responsible for a lot of fuckups in the BT community.

Now this makes sense, WTAW was originally created here on FST by a long since departed member sidney a big trader back in the day, and it is this thread which has been quoted on so many other trade / invite forums making tracker memberships a commodity. If you glance through the posts within the WTAW thread here they are all posts made mainly by traders debating the relative value of various trackers at various times relating to how difficult it is to become a member.

If you look at it this way, trading itself seems rather pathetic and pointless since it's ultimate aim is just to join trackers simply because they have few invites or a small userbase.Kind of a sad way to spend your time if you ask me..........

[Albo Da Kid]

Not true the frenzy for FtN was stronger long before the tracker became the first to put in place a ratioless policy in fact the userlimit was originally set at 4,000 not 6,000 members and the existing staff were extremely strict on new invitees for a long time with no invites for over 6 months. Trading levels are based on the rarity of the tracker nothing more, by becoming a member of a tracker with a small limited membership that is hard to join people think they have achieved something and are somehow 'elite' or 'special'. Many of those who have these memberships only have them for the trophy value barely keeping the membership ticking over, but rarity in no way is tied into ratio, none of the other 'rare' trackers offer no ratio but they are still highly sought simply because invitations are hard to obtain.
When Ftn first started you think the staffers went ahead and said" lets only have a userbase of 4'000 so we can be one of the rarest trackers"? No, they choose that number because they wanted hand picked dedicated users who would would help create a ratio free community with blazing speeds. If the other trackers weren't so neglected there would be no use for a new ratio-free tracker which offered the same content.
After the success of Ftn had, the rumors started knocking on the ears of the hungry and unhappy users. I myself thought Ftn was the ultimate topsite alike tracker that had everything that I couldn't find elsewhere. I saw it level 9 on the WTAW thread and I thought the higher the level the better it was. I'm sure that's how most started trading. Rarity played a big part on it from that point on but at the time the amount of noobs was far larger than the collecting knowledged bunch.
Today it's true that the number 1 collecting/trading reason is rarity. But all this crap could have been stopped if everyone 3 years back dedicated their time into trackers like TL/Kararga/Oink etc.. Those three could have been the 3 ultimate trackers and there wouldn't be much curiosity dedicated to the new ratio-free rare trackers.

What I was basically saying is that these crappy 0day hyped up trackers wouldn't be getting this much attention today if trackers like TL/scc/Kg had more content and better speeds 2-3 years ago. That could have been achieved by the dedication of the majority of the members. But unfortunately these communities lacked efficency which led it's members seeking for other better and faster trackers and The WTAW thread ofcourse tricked many into thinking that the higher leevel, the better the tracker was.

Edit. Im off to bed. I'll check out every1ns Pov tom when I have a little more energy

[Detale]

Well this thread took off eh. OK well the fact is trades are allowed here because this is a File sharing forum with a BT trade section.

Personally I would like to get rid of the trade section altogether but the majority of members here want it. I have had a few polls in my time that prove it. people always call this section the "main attraction" but I have seen no proof of this at all. The way i see it We'd see far less bullshit arond here if it were to go. Thats just my personal opinion.



if there's one place somebody will learn it, it's here. fst is mainly responsible for all the level thinking and considering invites/accounts as a commodity.

Again the trading blame of the entire world falls on FST. We teach traders now?? Jesus now thats not only silly its irresponsable to say. There are FAR worse sites out there public and private that allow any site not onlt to be traded but to be bought and sold. Sure some people including myself first coming to FST may think that trading is the norm. I have said many times that is what I thought at first, but guess what? Someone told me it wasn't and that was that. Some people will get it and some wont.By now there are enough threads that people can see to know it is frowned upon and the consequences could be severe if they decide to ignore the warnings

Actually I keep forgetting to mention this publicly but I do want someone (preferably an open ex trader) to make a well worded, yet understandable thread on the dangers of trading and what it could cost you. Not in a threatening manner mind you, but just something for the no0bs to read and to help educate them a bit. More or less a disclaimer on what could happen if you choose to trade instead of make friends and doing things the better way. If someone does this please PM it to me first for approval.

To blame the WTAW thread I think is also bit silly. It's just a thread. A guideline as to what the members think about each site and how the rank up against each other. It's just peoples opinions and not some kind of BT Bible. I know the argument so please don't preach it to me. "It makes the traders want a site because it's rare" I know, I know. I just don't feel like its that big a deal guys. Seriously now c'mon. There are far worse issues around here other than a silly thread that isn't meant to be taken literally, it's only supposed to be used as a reference. Serious business? No.



Don't talk shite, this was a disparate and varied forum long before BT trading was allowed here. The lounge was the lounge and it allowed people to spam if they wanted, meaning that everywhere else tended to stay on topic. So people who wanted to have serious discussions on a variety of topics did just that.

The lounge was made the way it was for that very reason, it was a conscious decision taken by the staff and members and it worked. There's no reason to suggest that it would change without the BT section. Indeed I would argue that the only place outside of the lounge (spam section) where spam occurs is the BT section, with people posting shite to get invites to private trackers.

Blah blah blah. Who left your cage open? Go back to your hole loungie :P

[silvertec]

New members to the BT scene find this place and then follow the example of others and start trading.
Its up to all of us to set a standard and how private trackers and Bt forums act
Currently they think it ok to trade and then they get banned from good sites mainly because its the first thing they learned.
So stop the trade section set a standard that new members can learn from that will produce the next generation of good Bt members.

FST can stay on their current path and be loathed and hated by private trackers or they can change their current ways and direct new members to a more enjoyable BT experience.

Just my 2cents....

[Funkin']

Who cares...

[Artemis]

To blame the WTAW thread I think is also bit silly. It's just a thread. A guideline as to what the members think about each site and how the rank up against each other. It's just peoples opinions and not some kind of BT Bible. I know the argument so please don't preach it to me. "It makes the traders want a site because it's rare" I know, I know. I just don't feel like its that big a deal guys. Seriously now c'mon. There are far worse issues around here other than a silly thread that isn't meant to be taken literally, it's only supposed to be used as a reference. Serious business? No.

Oh but it is serious business, and complete with hilarious fights about the various levels being fought by 'factions' of traders. The WTAW thread is a bible and is quoted in its entirity on many other forums that trade invites and/or accounts. Within days of the TTC 'review' and its unveiling as a topsite many foreign language forums were abuzz with info about it. This one thread does affect so many peoples opinions, just look at the discussions on trade section whenever a n00b trader gets it wrong and all the others descend on him saying you'll never get this tracker for that one its level is too low. It is the WTAW thread which started the thinking in levels, it is influential in the thinking of so many and being off-hand about it's affect on the community in no way alters that effect.
It absolutely is the WTAW thread which drives this nutty little stockmarket that is the trade section and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

[Detale]

Oh but it is serious business, and complete with hilarious fights about the various levels being fought by 'factions' of traders. The WTAW thread is a bible and is quoted in its entirity on many other forums that trade invites and/or accounts. Within days of the TTC 'review' and its unveiling as a topsite many foreign language forums were abuzz with info about it. This one thread does affect so many peoples opinions, just look at the discussions on trade section whenever a n00b trader gets it wrong and all the others descend on him saying you'll never get this tracker for that one its level is too low. It is the WTAW thread which started the thinking in levels, it is influential in the thinking of so many and being off-hand about it's affect on the community in no way alters that effect.
It absolutely is the WTAW thread which drives this nutty little stockmarket that is the trade section and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

I think this is one of your finest posts man. I agree that it does impact things sure, but I also think that it's the people and not the thread who make it the "stock market" that it sometimes comes to. It's the users in this generation that take it all serious. I believe the thinking in levels was always there in some circles. It's just supposed to be a reference point not an actual rating. Blame the people, not the site for taking it so seriously.

I think that BT in general has gone way downhill from when I came up. Personally I blame the seasoned people for not teaching the no0bs on the proper way of things instead leaving them to their own devices and their own means of getting in. You know how it is, people come to FST use it for all they can and then move on and forget where they came from. Even if FST stopped trading here there would be trading still in many other places. If there were no demand then there would be no need for a supply ;). Teach the people and the site will change. I'm going to have a public poll again to see where the majority of the users want amke sure you vote ;)

[The_Martinator]

First of all, nice thread.

I can't speak for myself, cause I joined other invite forums before I joined FST (I always thought FST had nothing to do with invites). When I was joining them I saw anti trading posts everywhere, threads dedicated to the subject and whole trading sections of forums being deleted. This was in July 2008. Therefore I can't say if I would have traded if I came here first. I like to think that I wouldn't, that I'd have read the posts in all sections first (at the time I was a big forum lurker, not the spammer I am now, lol).

Still, some interesting info here. I actually asked myself this question a few times since I joined here. What I gathered from your responses is that if there was no trade section here, there would be far less members. So what you're saying is, you rather have a lot of bad users than a few good ones? The fact remains FST has influence in the BT world. If you start banning traders, some will find another site eventually, but I think most won't. The result: some sites will be rare, be most of them will be judgeg on other grounds.

Why I hate trading? Because I'm influenced by traders' opinions every day. I don't know if FTN is worth going after when you have a bunch of other trackers. I do know it's rare...

[sez]

Reading through am kind of inclined to think that people who traded when they were n00bs then stopped aren't really to blame..here you have two active sections the giveaway and the trading section..on one you see bombs getting dropped regularly and on the other not so often,the competition and the slamming of people's request on the giveaway section not withstanding,these people wind up seeing their only chances of getting into these 'elite' sites(thanks to the WTAW sticky ) better lie in trading and so they fall prey...but then on the other side of the argument these people had 30 days of which they were not allowed to talk but rather listen..had they taken their time to read through the two forums,am sure the 'please,i didnt know i was a noob' story lines wont really be there...that aside what happened to collective responsibility?its kinda interesting seeing admins taking sides on this..if i were a trader i would even be scared of trading lol...at least get rid of the WTAW thread if the trade section seems too difficult to do away with at least for the sake of n00bs..

[Snee]

this was a disparate and varied forum long before BT trading was allowed here

Yes and that was before there were 60000+ members.
No.

[stoi]

Actually when this was the K-Lite forum, this was a lot better place, and it had more than 60,000 members (i think it was 5 years ago or so lol).

From my POV I enjoyed it a lot more back then, than i do now.

as for the WTAW my argument has always been.

If someone wants to trade a lvl 4 for a lvl 9 and another person wants to trade a lvl 9 for a lvl 4 then why stop them (obvioulsy trading itself is wrong, but why should a thread stop both parties from doing it, surely its up to them, but they just get laughed at if they try) when arguably the lvl 4 will be a better "tracker" than the lvl 9.

I still dont understand it lol

[Snee]

Actually when this was the K-Lite forum, this was a lot better place, and it had more than 60,000 members (i think it was 5 years ago or so lol).
Yeah. And yes, it was a lot better.

[Shalafi]

reading through am kind of inclined to think that people who traded when they were n00bs then stopped aren't really to blame..here you have two active sections the giveaway and the trading section..on one you see bombs getting dropped regularly and on the other not so often,the competition and the slamming of people's request on the giveaway section not withstanding,these people wind up seeing their only chances of getting into these 'elite' sites(thanks to the wtaw sticky ) better lie in trading and so they fall prey...but then on the other side of the argument these people had 30 days of which they were not allowed to talk but rather listen..had they taken their time to read through the two forums,am sure the 'please,i didnt know i was a noob' story lines wont really be there...that aside what happened to collective responsibility?its kinda interesting seeing admins taking sides on this..if i were a trader i would even be scared of trading lol...at least get rid of the wtaw thread if the trade section seems too difficult to do away with at least for the sake of n00bs..

+1.000.000

[stitched]

Oh but it is serious business, and complete with hilarious fights about the various levels being fought by 'factions' of traders. The WTAW thread is a bible and is quoted in its entirity on many other forums that trade invites and/or accounts. Within days of the TTC 'review' and its unveiling as a topsite many foreign language forums were abuzz with info about it. This one thread does affect so many peoples opinions, just look at the discussions on trade section whenever a n00b trader gets it wrong and all the others descend on him saying you'll never get this tracker for that one its level is too low. It is the WTAW thread which started the thinking in levels, it is influential in the thinking of so many and being off-hand about it's affect on the community in no way alters that effect.
It absolutely is the WTAW thread which drives this nutty little stockmarket that is the trade section and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
hey WTAW thread is a bible for traders as much as it is for anti-traders.....if u ask me anti-traders consider it more of a bible... have u see the amount of giveaways/trades made for lower levels and no one really bothers....as soon as some one starts making a higher level giveaway/trade every one of those anti-traders are involved in the thread saying how bad it is to trade something of a higer level...

do u really think its fair for some one to ask for NO PROOF if its a GOEM,DEMONOID,IPTORRENT giveaway
and u need all the proof in the world and u need to know that person better he should make all the very usefull ,no-so-funny spam if its a HIGER LEVEL giveaway.....i would love to see it the other way round...then i would belive that oh yeah WTAW thread doesnt really mean anything for anti-traders......
if not anything atleast traders are consistent in what they do unlike anti-traders...
traders trade level 1- level 10
anti traders worry only about Level 3 ••••••••••
The sites from this level and up are harder to get into.
onwards......

if some one wants proof u can look up for it in the trade/giveaway section


..how very convinient of these anti-traders to blame all these short comings on traders ...so that they can potray themselves as the saviour of this bit torrent wordl......its very easy to point out others mistake rather then trying to make yourself a better person....

thats just the way i see it... l might be wrong

[IdolEyes787]

hey WTAW thread is a bible for traders as much as it is for
do u really think its fair for some one to ask for NO PROOF if its a GOEM,DEMONOID,IPTORRENT giveaway
and u need all the proof in the world and u need to know that person better he should make all the very usefull ,no-so-funny spam if its a HIGER LEVEL giveaway.....



I've often wondered about that myself ,how a seemly otherwise reasonable person can suddenly toss out all their stated beliefs about security just because a tracker doesn't meet their definition of l33tness.

I guess they can argue that no one would cheat to get a low level tracker but that's simply not the case .
The only time that I was ever cheated was when I gave away a Demonoid code and their administration emailed me telling me that the individual that I had invited had a dupe account.:pinch:

And Shalafi there is a difference between having an opinion and acting on it.
If you can find someone who trades who feels that I haven't treated them fairly(besides yourself obviously) ask them to post here, I would very much like to see it.

[Artemis]

hey WTAW thread is a bible for traders as much as it is for anti-traders.....if u ask me anti-traders consider it more of a bible... have u see the amount of giveaways/trades made for lower levels and no one really bothers....as soon as some one starts making a higher level giveaway/trade every one of those anti-traders are involved in the thread saying how bad it is to trade something of a higer level...

do u really think its fair for some one to ask for NO PROOF if its a GOEM,DEMONOID,IPTORRENT giveaway
and u need all the proof in the world and u need to know that person better he should make all the very usefull ,no-so-funny spam if its a HIGER LEVEL giveaway.....i would love to see it the other way round...then i would belive that oh yeah WTAW thread doesnt really mean anything for anti-traders......
if not anything atleast traders are consistent in what they do unlike anti-traders...
traders trade level 1- level 10
anti traders worry only about Level 3 ••••••••••
The sites from this level and up are harder to get into.
onwards......

if some one wants proof u can look up for it in the trade/giveaway section


..how very convinient of these anti-traders to blame all these short comings on traders ...so that they can potray themselves as the saviour of this bit torrent wordl......its very easy to point out others mistake rather then trying to make yourself a better person....

thats just the way i see it... l might be wrong

Anyone who labels themselves an anti-trader is an idiot and usually has a hidden agenda anyway. As we have seen in the last few months there have been many traders maintaining multiple a/c's as anti-traders (or hot swedish teenage girls ). Anyone who believes a tracker is better because it is more rare is sad mistaken, so anyone who follows the WTAW thread as a bible whether they are traders or not simply do not have a clue.

I personally think giving away invites randomly for btrep is almost as bad as trading. If people actually spent the time getting to know others and then inviting e-friends that they have gotten to know and like over a period of time then they show that they are caring for the private sites that they are members of. Just disposing of a/c's or invites via giveaway or trading shows at the very least disrespect for the sites which you wish to be a member of.

Also in reverse stitched there have been many threads of 'I will give up trading if someone invites me to FtN' , so it seems that people pick and choose which sites to respect the rules of based on how rare they are.
It is this chasing of trackers based on the level of rarity that I find rather stupid myself, or the feeding frenzy which surrounds the latest trendy tracker to be seen at.
It seems to be far less about being apart of the bt community and far more about the collection of private tracker memberships that you have, the more 'prestigous' collection making you somehow more elite ?

[abosamer]

Because Fst would loose a lot of it's userbase if they didn't allow trading. It would also hurt the Bt section and as a result we the whole Fst would turn out like the Lounge.

Don't talk shite, this was a disparate and varied forum long before BT trading was allowed here. The lounge was the lounge and it allowed people to spam if they wanted, meaning that everywhere else tended to stay on topic. So people who wanted to have serious discussions on a variety of topics did just that.

The lounge was made the way it was for that very reason, it was a conscious decision taken by the staff and members and it worked. There's no reason to suggest that it would change without the BT section. Indeed I would argue that the only place outside of the lounge (spam section) where spam occurs is the BT section, with people posting shite to get invites to private trackers.


I didn't ever enter the lounge cause i don't understand anything they write , everything there is almost nonsense , and that's my opinion and while other pple like it so I won't give my opinion about getting rid of that section .

And why I post this reply is , that the onlt place where i can find solution to my problem with PCs and any thing related to PCs , is FST :yup: .

So FST is a great place with BT trade section and without it :D

[The_Martinator]

Oh but it is serious business, and complete with hilarious fights about the various levels being fought by 'factions' of traders. The WTAW thread is a bible and is quoted in its entirity on many other forums that trade invites and/or accounts. Within days of the TTC 'review' and its unveiling as a topsite many foreign language forums were abuzz with info about it. This one thread does affect so many peoples opinions, just look at the discussions on trade section whenever a n00b trader gets it wrong and all the others descend on him saying you'll never get this tracker for that one its level is too low. It is the WTAW thread which started the thinking in levels, it is influential in the thinking of so many and being off-hand about it's affect on the community in no way alters that effect.
It absolutely is the WTAW thread which drives this nutty little stockmarket that is the trade section and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
hey WTAW thread is a bible for traders as much as it is for anti-traders.....if u ask me anti-traders consider it more of a bible... have u see the amount of giveaways/trades made for lower levels and no one really bothers....as soon as some one starts making a higher level giveaway/trade every one of those anti-traders are involved in the thread saying how bad it is to trade something of a higer level...

do u really think its fair for some one to ask for NO PROOF if its a GOEM,DEMONOID,IPTORRENT giveaway
and u need all the proof in the world and u need to know that person better he should make all the very usefull ,no-so-funny spam if its a HIGER LEVEL giveaway.....i would love to see it the other way round...then i would belive that oh yeah WTAW thread doesnt really mean anything for anti-traders......
if not anything atleast traders are consistent in what they do unlike anti-traders...
traders trade level 1- level 10
anti traders worry only about Level 3 ••••••••••
The sites from this level and up are harder to get into.
onwards......

if some one wants proof u can look up for it in the trade/giveaway section


..how very convinient of these anti-traders to blame all these short comings on traders ...so that they can potray themselves as the saviour of this bit torrent wordl......its very easy to point out others mistake rather then trying to make yourself a better person....

thats just the way i see it... l might be wrong

I think what you're refering to are collectors. these people enter invite forums and try to be nice, choosing the long but more sure way. Some are really good at it. they give away invites and receive invites. finally they get to a point where all they're missing to complete their collection is the ''F** trackers''. Oh and maybe some T* and r*vo*t ones (I might have missed a few). The fact is that these people don't actually use stuff they download (some get seedboxes to impress other people with their l33t ratios). No harm in that, at least I get stuff at a faster speed.
Then comes the critical moment. they want FTN or whatever and they're tired of waiting 8it's been months, lol). So they start trading or giving away accounts (which is the same in a tracker's point of view). At the worst case, they give up on getting their ''dream tracker'' and start selling invites/accs.
What's interesting about them is that they give away invites without any rules, they just need the rep.

I know what I'm talking about as I've seen some do it. they think I'm not gonna get it here, I'll go somewhere else.

[Albo Da Kid]

We need Ovisan here to give us his well formulated POV. He seems to know so much about why tradeing/traders are allowed here.

[CaliPirate]

I'm glad to see they're allowed somewhere

[bentomans]

i believe that traders(without money) is always better than some fake people that make GA .

[harshytkage]

lol...i remember that being one of my first questions here on Fst...i seemingly misspelled(like i misspelled this) traders as "tarders", which went on to become a joke..aand thus my Title!
;)

[CaliPirate]

lol...i remember that being one of my first questions here on Fst...i seemingly misspelled(like i misspelled this) traders as "tarders", which went on to become a joke..aand thus my Title!
;)

lol...I'm bad at spelling...i feel your pain

[harshytkage]

actually it was more of a typo, not that i'm excellent at spelling 'nuf said ;)

[Submission]

i wanna answer this queation with another question.if this elite sites opens signups periodicly who can trade.And in this elite trackers i dont know exact persantage, nearly half is good traders.there was one uk-t topic find and see there traders persantage who is in uk-t

um.. i don't really understand what you're asking here. but what do you mean by "good traders"? cause in the trackers' point of view, there are none.

why should trackers that don't want to have open signups have it? if they want to recruit new members by careful selection within their circles, then so be it. the fact that there are a lot of curious people that want to join these trackers who don't know any other way than trading doesn't justify shit. the trackers have no obligations at all in this matter. besides, this doesn't have much to do with the topic anyways.

EDIT: to Albo Da Kid > that sums it up pretty good. however, there are atleast one more aspect that i can think of. take uk-t for example. the reason why they are so closed up is mainly cause of the legal threat.. some trackers want to be restrictive with who they let in in order to maintain their sense of security (false or not)..

Trading makes a site better. People who dont want their account, instead of just wasting space trade it away to someone who does want it and becomes an active member.

If trading stops, trackers are not going be easier to get. It will get exponentially harder.

[Mano]

because trade is the best

[sear]

Trading makes a site better. People who dont want their account, instead of just wasting space trade it away to someone who does want it and becomes an active member.

That's the biggest load of bullshit ever spouted on this forum and honestly that's quite an achievement.

Traders almost never become active members because they're too worried about being caught out. Though I know there are exceptions to this...in my experience the only time traders become active is when their actually invited. Secondly if they don't want the account they should ASK STAFF TO DISABLE THEM.

By trading an account you're stealing a spot from someone who actually deserves it. No one has a right to a join any tracker they wish. I'm sorry if you don't have a friend to invite you but that's the only honourable way of getting in. Most trackers people are trading for want to remain small. That means not everyone can have them.

Honestly you're not missing anything anyway. All trackers have the same content. The only reason you'd enjoy one place more than another is that you know people there...which would mean you'd have an invite...which would mean you wouldn't have to trade. So really if you have to trade for it you're very unlikely to enjoy any of the smaller trackers. They have less peers and less torrents.

There's too much of a pokemon...got to have them all mentality at work here. It may be because the average age of torrenters is getting progressively lower, but it seems awfully childish to me.

And a final word of warning...if you get caught your IP will get tied up with that account...and who's to say they weren't a cheater or invite seller or worse thereby tarnishing your name. Even if you're not a hard core trader your details will then get handed around to other site staffers and bam...all in one hit you lose 6...7...8 or more trackers and find yourself black listed

[/end rant] who gives a fuck anyway, it's not like anyone is listening.

[Swanky]

Trading makes a site better. People who dont want their account, instead of just wasting space trade it away to someone who does want it and becomes an active member.

That's the biggest load of bullshit ever spouted on this forum and honestly that's quite an achievement.

Traders almost never become active members because they're too worried about being caught out. Though I know there are exceptions to this...in my experience the only time traders become active is when their actually invited. Secondly if they don't want the account they should ASK STAFF TO DISABLE THEM.

By trading an account you're stealing a spot from someone who actually deserves it. No one has a right to a join any tracker they wish. I'm sorry if you don't have a friend to invite you but that's the only honourable way of getting in. Most trackers people are trading for want to remain small. That means not everyone can have them.

Honestly you're not missing anything anyway. All trackers have the same content. The only reason you'd enjoy one place more than another is that you know people there...which would mean you'd have an invite...which would mean you wouldn't have to trade. So really if you have to trade for it you're very unlikely to enjoy any of the smaller trackers. They have less peers and less torrents.

There's too much of a pokemon...got to have them all mentality at work here. It may be because the average age of torrenters is getting progressively lower, but it seems awfully childish to me.

And a final word of warning...if you get caught your IP will get tied up with that account...and who's to say they weren't a cheater or invite seller or worse thereby tarnishing your name. Even if you're not a hard core trader your details will then get handed around to other site staffers and bam...all in one hit you lose 6...7...8 or more trackers and find yourself black listed

[/end rant] who gives a fuck anyway, it's not like anyone is listening.

Typical generic anti-trader tyrade. :rolleyes:.

[sear]

Typical generic trader justification.

I'm not an anti-trader and I couldn't care less whether you believe me or not. For some reason Submissions post pissed me off. Maybe it's the hours wasted tracking people who break the rules down. Either way if you don't like it put me on ignore.

[Submission]

That's the biggest load of bullshit ever spouted on this forum and honestly that's quite an achievement.


the usual wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Traders almost never become active members because they're too worried about being caught out. Though I know there are exceptions to this...in my experience the only time traders become active is when their actually invited. Secondly if they don't want the account they should ASK STAFF TO DISABLE THEM.


I've invited people and alot dont bother using their account. I haven't seen a difference between accounts and invites. Some people use their accounts some dont.



By trading an account you're stealing a spot from someone who actually deserves it. No one has a right to a join any tracker they wish. I'm sorry if you don't have a friend to invite you but that's the only honourable way of getting in. Most trackers people are trading for want to remain small. That means not everyone can have them.


And when you trade accounts, your size doesn't change. IN FACT you lose the people who do not want to be there and replace them with people who want to be there.

As for who's deserving, thats debateable. Your worth on a tracker is not based on who gives it to you its what you do with the account, BOTTOM LINE.



Honestly you're not missing anything anyway. All trackers have the same content. The only reason you'd enjoy one place more than another is that you know people there...which would mean you'd have an invite...which would mean you wouldn't have to trade. So really if you have to trade for it you're very unlikely to enjoy any of the smaller trackers. They have less peers and less torrents.


People trade all types of trackers not just small. I dont know what your ranting about here but you dont have any legitimate point.



And a final word of warning...if you get caught your IP will get tied up with that account...and who's to say they weren't a cheater or invite seller or worse thereby tarnishing your name. Even if you're not a hard core trader your details will then get handed around to other site staffers and bam...all in one hit you lose 6...7...8 or more trackers and find yourself black listed


This is all the more reason why anti-traders, people who do not want to trade should be banned from the trading section. If they do not want to trade then they dont lose anything, at the same time you preserve a large section of this forum.

More so anti-traders become a danger to the trading community by ratting out people because of whatever personal reasons they have.

Once you get rid of trading FST becomes a whinefest of "gimme this" "gimme that" and guess what trading goes somewhere else.

So if the admins here know whats good for this place they wont even entertain the thought. Frankly I dont even know why detale is given special privileges when he's a danger to the site. And even though Detale desperately tries to maintain a view of neutrality he is an anti-trader and has explicitly stated before that he hates traders.

You ban trading at FST, it'll go somewhere else.

You can deny this simple fact all you want it wont change a thing.

[Vinceftw]

i guess trades are allowed here bc fst gets more attention that way--> more income
one could argue that every post written with the topic of trading in it is a waste of time as traders dont read or understand it anyways. nor do they want to.

[sear]

You ban trading at FST, it'll go somewhere else.

You can deny this simple fact all you want it wont change a thing.

I never tried to deny this. In fact is true trading will never stop. I couldn't care less if FST wants to keep the trading section or not. As for blocking people who don't want to trade from the trading section I'd like to see you enforce it.

Do you honestly think staff are going to come here and declare they don't want to trade thereby cutting off their access...lol. Even 'private' trading forums haven't been able to keep staff out. Just like staff can't keep out all traders it's just an endless circle.

Really this argument is pointless...and responding to the rest of your points is a waste of my time. You will never change your mind, I'll never change mine so who cares. I won't be posting in this thread again.

I would point out that this is why I and plenty of other older members never post here any more...the traders combined with the insincere invite begging alongside the endless repetition of topics makes it a very unattractive read.