Attention FST (Staff and Users)

[TrueBusiness]

Hi.

I feel it is time that FST has had a real thread full of honest questions and clear answers. I will look at both sides of this recurring issue and hope to address it once and for all, which seems rather unlikely. For years (literally), lack of coherent communication has hindered an enjoyable process that was once "merely sharing files." The online drama, funny enough, is rather a immature evolution from what we truly wanted.

From the threads I have seen, it seems as if the FST staff and tracker staff are pitted against each other in a perpetual quandary and battle. Being somewhat in this kind of situation for quite a while, I feel it is really essential for both sides to stop the miscommunication.

Bittorrent, in its core sense, is to share files. No doubt since it's appearance in 2001, and its widespread use starting in 2004, it has escalated to much more than that. While it had been mostly used as a method for friends online to share files at first, we have developed into a hypocritical online network full of liars and backstabbers. Since their commencement, trackers are now exhibited in a "What Trackers Are Worth" thread, apparently largely catered to "traders." This is no doubt a violation of site rules, sites of which many FST staff are on.

Now, I ask you, why? Traders, in reality, rarely use the trackers they trade. Ironically, they use the the trackers they have successfully traded as "trophy trackers," trackers that represent nothing but its face value as a name. Now rather than actually use the site, they again trade accounts and invites for what they deem as a "higher level tracker," a number superficially branded based on rarity to represent a tracker.

Traders, in real life, are normal human beings like you and me. Online, however, they can have ten or even twenty alternate identities. We have all heard of trader hunters. Their essential goal is to rid of these users from trackers, mostly for one reason. Traders compromise site security, just as the reviews in the WTAW thread do. While FST staff seems to value their members' security and deem it their admirable quality, it is a paradoxical action when they do not seem to realize trackers are doing the same. What most of us is illegal, yet they condone the fact that traders should be helped in their desires to achieve the delusional goal of attaining a "tracker." Is there some hidden motive behind this? I leave this to FST staff to ponder, whether or not they decide to announce it publicly. Don't tell me it's to satiate the needs of traders. If FST really cared about them, they would advise them with a thread of the detrimental qualities of trading and lead them in the right direction instead of condoning these actions.

On another note, allow me to make an example with history that pretty much sums up the e-drama that has been going on for quite a while now.

After World War II, America again deemed the Soviet Union as its main rival. While an ally in the second World War, the Soviet Union was angry that America had arrived so late in the war. The USSR, during the whole course of the war until D-Day, thought the US had viewed them as rivals, and allowed the Soviets to "bleed" and exterminate the Nazis AND the Communists for the convenience of Americans. This, however is untrue, as FDR had been slowly pushing America out of its isolationist status. After the war, Truman, now the President, announced his plan for a Truman Doctrine or, as it was widely known, containment. The plan was to keep Communism from spreading and for the USSR to give up the countries it had obtained during the war. The Soviet Union said no, and America thought that they had planned to spread Communism across the world. What they did not realize is that Russia had lost 20 million soldiers in the war until D-Day, and invaded THREE times since Napoleon last invaded the country. The "Iron Curtain" (countries the USSR obtained in the war) was to act as a buffer zone from future invasions, while Truman believed it was the start of the spread of Communism. Thus, the Cold War began.

Please excuse my language, but this stupid shit ran on for decades, an arms race that lasted caused of disillusioned retards who never communicated. Both sides were CLEARLY apprehensive of each other, but always assumed the other side was making a move.

If you haven't realized yet, this analogy fits rather perfectly in our Bittorrent world. Tracker staff, being Soviet Russia, are apprehensive of invasions from bad users. They closed their doors, and people started characterizing them as being "1337." FST staff, being America, keep a staunch position on keeping their traders and reviews, sadly not admitting the fact that trackers are having their security ruined by these users. No matter the experience of a tracker staff, they are there to protect their site, regardless of they seeming immaturity.

On the other hand, tracker staff are so ruthless in their catching traders that people start thinking they're crazy. It's a dog eat dog world to them, and they will do anything to protect their site rather than protect YOU. It may not be entirely understandable to everyone, but they are more secretive about their trackers and members, as they are so conspicuously doing something more wrong than hosting a public site about file sharing. Some tracker staff are truly immature; it's a pity. The situations at hand is the amount of traders FST hosts and the paranoia of staff to protect their sites.

I have typed enough to prove my point. Most of you probably did not read it entirely due to your lack of wanting to read long paragraphs, but I strongly suggest we take a clear approach to this right now rather than go on for months with meaningless topic. You may accuse me of having no life, but I will say, that if you have any opinion concerning this, that you partake in this thread with some explanations that will elucidate this situation.

This topic may not change anything. So be it. However, I strongly hope we will change the attitude of both sides, both of whom are very protective of their stances, largely due to dearth of cooperation between both camps.

I will probably return to this thread and reply again, with a much shorter post to address the short attention span of the majority of bittorrent users.

With that, bye for now and good luck.

[respawn40]

Woo, that was quite the read! It's 1 in the morning, so I'm not much for...um...thinking, at the moment; but I do agree that there's a very large amount of e-Drama that could be avoided if bittorrent discussion sites could just cooperate with bittorrent trackers.

By the way, I only know of a few people who use such big words in such long posts, and have been affected recently by this immaturity that you speak of. You're definitely not new here. :lol:

[Artemis]

I will probably return to this thread and reply again, with a much shorter post to address the short attention span of the majority of bittorrent users.

With that, bye for now and good luck.

KThxBai :blink:

[LeBronJames]

I don't understand why everyone looks at FST as the source of all evil in the universe. People want to trade. They trade all over the place. FST gives users a safe place to trade. The users want it, so FST gives it to them. To hate FST for allowing trading is natural, but if you really want to fix the problem, then you shouldn't be going after FST. You should be trying to teach new users and old users alike on how to go about the private tracker world. People see the rarity ranking lvl system that is everywhere and they see it as a game to get to lvl10 with tracker invites serving as the trading cards. Some trackers make it really hard to get into their tracker and people want it, so people who aren't in are naturally going to be calling them "1337" ... especially if the tracker seems to have closed its doors to high class users as most of the "upper level trackers" have. Blame the trackers here.

So you say you've asked all these clear questions and you really want to get a lot out of this thread, but maybe instead of pointing fingers and blaiming FST as is so trendy nowadays, the trackers need to take some of the onus on themselves to try and teach users about the right way to go about getting invites.... if they even know themselves. People don't want to sit around tracker IRCs for days on end trying to network, so they are going to turn to trading unless there is a better solution

[BlackKnight]

wow I have no problems in reading such a long post like this (actually I enjoy it, thanks to a friend of mine ;)). I don't know if I understand all your points but what I feel is that you are a little bit on the traders' side.

I have some thoughts on this things, I've changed a lot in my point of view in a few days. I always love all of my accounts so I never agree with trading things but I agree with you that staff from trackers are somehow making this war become worse. They close their door, and I'm not even sure if they care about the quality of the members but they are creating groups of elitists. Many ppl want to make friends with those elitists to join trackers they want. I know a member want join all ftn, fsc, f***, ukt and he admitted that all forums are the same content with the same faces, he just wanted to join them because those are spam-able places. So he ignored TT and E****. (he was successful with ftn and fsc).

I wonder if it's the true meaning of sharing? the true meaning of making friends? and do staff know about that kind of thing? It's pure collecting, no more no less. But it seems staff from trackers put more effort in the war between traders than those kind of ppl. It makes me fed up with anyone who keeps saying that they need to have friends to join those trackers. Traders are even better if I consider that they just go straight not suck other cocks to get what they want!

Well, in the end, I maybe totally wrong still...

[That1Guy]

First off, Thank you for the history lesson. Interesting read.

I personally have felt the same way about this subject for a while now. I disagree with trading and have since I read the rules that said not to. Not that I follow every "rule" given to me (smoker). but if I choose to join something, and sign something saying I will follow rules (or click "I accept" buttons), I honor my word.

I guess it is probably easier for those with good people skills, that type decent English and maybe have a decent internet connection to acquire some sites the "allowed" way. So maybe if the circumstances were different I would have traded. (not that I dont slaughter the English language daily :P)

That being said, I dont waste my time trying to hunt down traders, But do not feel sorry for them what so ever when something goes wrong.

Edit: 420 posts w00t, I may never post again :P

[Cabalo]

With the recent moves from some trackers' staffers against FST staff and active members (even those actively anti traders), i see no reason as why should FST make any changes when there isn't the slightest will of staffers to discuss this reasonably.
when i mean staffers, i mean sysops, not the small fishes.

i do know and talk to some sysops time to time, and it's a pity FST can't make some kind of agreement with them, as they are reasonable and good people, and have proven such in different occasions. but not all are like those, and that's why their sites stand in the crowd.

the biggest problem doesn't stand in FST's hands. it stands in the childish behaviour of some kids that dream to be important behind a keyboard.
Being egocentric and thinking the universe of the internet information highway would shortcut and go around their site, is purely utopic.

[TrueBusiness]

I don't understand why everyone looks at FST as the source of all evil in the universe. People want to trade. They trade all over the place. FST gives users a safe place to trade. The users want it, so FST gives it to them. To hate FST for allowing trading is natural, but if you really want to fix the problem, then you shouldn't be going after FST. You should be trying to teach new users and old users alike on how to go about the private tracker world. People see the rarity ranking lvl system that is everywhere and they see it as a game to get to lvl10 with tracker invites serving as the trading cards. Some trackers make it really hard to get into their tracker and people want it, so people who aren't in are naturally going to be calling them "1337" ... especially if the tracker seems to have closed its doors to high class users as most of the "upper level trackers" have. Blame the trackers here.

So you say you've asked all these clear questions and you really want to get a lot out of this thread, but maybe instead of pointing fingers and blaiming FST as is so trendy nowadays, the trackers need to take some of the onus on themselves to try and teach users about the right way to go about getting invites.... if they even know themselves. People don't want to sit around tracker IRCs for days on end trying to network, so they are going to turn to trading unless there is a better solution

I did not say that FST was completely at fault. The main issue here is that both sides are lacking in communication. Both are being very aggresive in terms of the stances they are putting up.

They are sitting across from a table and the table just keeps elongating.

[1000possibleclaws]

Hi.

I strongly hope we will change the attitude of both sides, both of whom are very protective of their stances, largely due to dearth of cooperation between both camps.


I communicate with a fair bit of tracker staff. :huh:

I agree that alot of bs happens with no preceding attempt at communication as a resolver. However, in these extreme cases I doubt communication can solve these problems. I think that both party's ideals clash so much that in such a case no compromise could ever be met that would please both sides. This is in large why we decided to get rid of a comm rep status for staff (difficulty and stressors of compromise + staff who genuinely want to participate will do so regardless of the pretty stars).

With this being said, the drama you guys see is just the tip of the iceberg of what is happening. Communication, understanding, and maturity is why this s*** is relatively isolated.

[Artemis]

One major reason for FST being regarded as the 'source of all evil' is the WTAW thread, this was created by an FST member Sydney. Before this trackers had not been rated, and no matter what anyone else says it is a rarity rating showing how difficult it is to get into trackers. Now because of this thread we have a whole virtual stockmarket, with common comments in threads of you can't get that for that tracker it is too low level. I mean seriously it is the mentality that is wrong.

Since the removal of the comm rep status from most tracker staff (with a few exceptions) the large percentage of trackers have hardened their attitude to FST. Staff here say that the system was unmanageable and I actually understand both sides of the argument but that does not change the fact that this has caused a major rift. Are there any tracker staff who run giveaways any more ? Do you see Brandon or Vidde post at all ?
FST is here to protect its own rules and the users of the forum, in doing that they break every rule that the trackers ask of members, so why be surprised that sites like FST anger the trackers ? FST angers them the most simply because it is the largest and is very high on the google site list.

FST has no intention of changing, why should they? it works for them, and the torrent sites themselves are only one area of interest in the filesharing area. The NZB's also generate interest and the lounge generates almost as much traffic as the bt section (strange that) but the dissertation about everyone sitting down calmly and working it all out is a very naive point of view.

Now we come to trading itself *sigh* this is the subject which gets everyones arms up in the air. Simply thanks to the WTAW thread and the implied levels of rarity that are generated we end with collectors. These are people who trade to get into a tracker that is rare just to have it, they need to hide from staff because they have traded so never post or talk in irc and only log on to keep the a/c alive, so basically they are about as much use to tracker staff as an extra nipple. There are those that trade to get the a/c's that they want and then are good even great users (honorable mention goes to puckface here) but most sadly just want the tracker bookmark.......

I have mentioned before the underside of trading as well, since we have this implied 'value' from the WTAW thread we have invite sellers, these are people who trade multiple a/c's/ invites simply to sell them off, so it is little wonder that tracker staff dislike these practices.

The aims of the bt trackers and the aims of the FST forum are different they have always been different but there is no likelihood that this is going to change, so the idea that what FST promotes is going to be 'accepted' by the bt trackers is minimal.

[bilkenter]

One major reason for FST being regarded as the 'source of all evil' is the WTAW thread, this was created by an FST member Sydney. Before this trackers had not been rated, and no matter what anyone else says it is a rarity rating showing how difficult it is to get into trackers. Now because of this thread we have a whole virtual stockmarket, with common comments in threads of you can't get that for that tracker it is too low level. I mean seriously it is the mentality that is wrong.

Since the removal of the comm rep status from most tracker staff (with a few exceptions) the large percentage of trackers have hardened their attitude to FST. Staff here say that the system was unmanageable and I actually understand both sides of the argument but that does not change the fact that this has caused a major rift. Are there any tracker staff who run giveaways any more ? Do you see Brandon or Vidde post at all ?
FST is here to protect its own rules and the users of the forum, in doing that they break every rule that the trackers ask of members, so why be surprised that sites like FST anger the trackers ? FST angers them the most simply because it is the largest and is very high on the google site list.

FST has no intention of changing, why should they? it works for them, and the torrent sites themselves are only one area of interest in the filesharing area. The NZB's also generate interest and the lounge generates almost as much traffic as the bt section (strange that) but the dissertation about everyone sitting down calmly and working it all out is a very naive point of view.

Now we come to trading itself *sigh* this is the subject which gets everyones arms up in the air. Simply thanks to the WTAW thread and the implied levels of rarity that are generated we end with collectors. These are people who trade to get into a tracker that is rare just to have it, they need to hide from staff because they have traded so never post or talk in irc and only log on to keep the a/c alive, so basically they are about as much use to tracker staff as an extra nipple. There are those that trade to get the a/c's that they want and then are good even great users (honorable mention goes to puckface here) but most sadly just want the tracker bookmark.......

I have mentioned before the underside of trading as well, since we have this implied 'value' from the WTAW thread we have invite sellers, these are people who trade multiple a/c's/ invites simply to sell them off, so it is little wonder that tracker staff dislike these practices.

The aims of the bt trackers and the aims of the FST forum are different they have always been different but there is no likelihood that this is going to change, so the idea that what FST promotes is going to be 'accepted' by the bt trackers is minimal.

First, you cant actually believe what certain people on certain forums are saying about this recent tl ban, seriously, i have never seen such an attitude. Anyway, you are right about the difference of interests. Regarding WTAW thread, i believe we shall get rid of it too, i mean i needed a nice metal site for my needs, i searched a lil bit on threads and run into one that talks about metal music torrents, and i asked the guy about an invite(my first time asking someone for an invite) I didnt even look at the level it has, i just said i need a site that i can keep a good ratio with some freeleeches et cetera, anyway the point is we shall get rid of WTAW thread because it both generates hatred for fst and causes people to make their decisions on levels not needs. I know getting rid off that thread wont solve anything, yet it is a good start.

[Old_Swift_acct]

First of all why did you made this username ? why are you affraid

[IdolEyes787]

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/225346/2/Give_Your_Two_Cents_Worth.jpg


No doubt my naivety, but all the cheaters and traders already on the sites.FST is perhaps an enabler but hardly the cause of the problem.
As was the said the problem is systemic and FST is just a convenient scapegoat .

Sorry to get off topic but anyone seen that Tom Cruise war movie?

And yes I agree with swift .It is hard to put any trust in someone that begins with subterfuge.

[Something Else]

Get rid off FST. Everyone's happy. :smilie4:

[sexten]

With the recent moves from some trackers' staffers against FST staff and active members (even those actively anti traders), i see no reason as why should FST make any changes when there isn't the slightest will of staffers to discuss this reasonably.
when i mean staffers, i mean sysops, not the small fishes.

i do know and talk to some sysops time to time, and it's a pity FST can't make some kind of agreement with them, as they are reasonable and good people, and have proven such in different occasions. but not all are like those, and that's why their sites stand in the crowd.

the biggest problem doesn't stand in FST's hands. it stands in the childish behaviour of some kids that dream to be important behind a keyboard.
Being egocentric and thinking the universe of the internet information highway would shortcut and go around their site, is purely utopic.


I find this post quite ironic, as I've tried to make out a deal with FST several times, but guess who is being ignored? Fine by me, but then you can't complain when you get banned for trading in here (no we don't ban people for just being a member/staffer).

I've made a deal with about every "trader forum" of some size that I know of, FST is the only forum refusing to make a deal. So the problem is not at "our" end, it is at "your" end.

[The Flying Cow]

All this has been discussed many times before.

Get the trackers you want, work with them, and move on.

The traders will always be here, but you really need to be terribly bored to have the time to rant in their direction, or even see and care about what they're up to. It's been proven pointless time and time again.


anyone seen that Tom Cruise war movie?

It's definitely worth it Idol. Very impressive picture. TBH I was surprised, seeing as Tinkertown tends to edit history and say it like it wasn't. Valkyrie is not the case.

[mrnobody]

i refuse to reply to a thread created by a dupe account :-\

eh i just did

[bilkenter]

With the recent moves from some trackers' staffers against FST staff and active members (even those actively anti traders), i see no reason as why should FST make any changes when there isn't the slightest will of staffers to discuss this reasonably.
when i mean staffers, i mean sysops, not the small fishes.

i do know and talk to some sysops time to time, and it's a pity FST can't make some kind of agreement with them, as they are reasonable and good people, and have proven such in different occasions. but not all are like those, and that's why their sites stand in the crowd.

the biggest problem doesn't stand in FST's hands. it stands in the childish behaviour of some kids that dream to be important behind a keyboard.
Being egocentric and thinking the universe of the internet information highway would shortcut and go around their site, is purely utopic.


I find this post quite ironic, as I've tried to make out a deal with FST several times, but guess who is being ignored? Fine by me, but then you can't complain when you get banned for trading in here (no we don't ban people for just being a member/staffer).

I've made a deal with about every "trader forum" of some size that I know of, FST is the only forum refusing to make a deal. So the problem is not at "our" end, it is at "your" end.
FST should stick to what they are doing, maybe they can get rid of WTAW or whatever threat that is, they can get rid off it, but they shall always allow people to state what they think, if that is not allowed here, then it is no different than being under a dictatorship. Also banning traders, giving their ips, names et cetera wont solve anything, they will get organized in another place do whatever they want. You cant stop traders or cheaters not unless you start thinking of their reasons to do so. Why does someone trade? ask yourself this, then we might reduce the number of traders in this torrenting. It is really funny for someone who doesnt trade or such to defend others rights, why should i care? i shouldnt but i do it is really fun.

[sexten]

FST should stick to what they are doing, maybe they can get rid of WTAW or whatever threat that is, they can get rid off it, but they shall always allow people to state what they think, if that is not allowed here, then it is no different than being under a dictatorship. Also banning traders, giving their ips, names et cetera wont solve anything, they will get organized in another place do whatever they want. You cant stop traders or cheaters not unless you start thinking of their reasons to do so. Why does someone trade? ask yourself this, then we might reduce the number of traders in this torrenting. It is really funny for someone who doesnt trade or such to defend others rights, why should i care? i shouldnt but i do it is really fun.

This got nothing to do about freedom of speach, of course everyone should be able to say what they like.
And you say we can't stop traders or cheaters, does that mean we should stop fighting them?

Do you honestly think a tracker would be better or even equally good if trading and cheating was allowed? Have you ever managed a tracker? Have you ever seen a "trader tree" and what kind of users it usually consists of? Do you know what would happen with the ratio economics and seed times if everyone cheated? Because I do, and I can assure you it would be the least successful tracker of all times. If you want trading and cheating to be allowed, use a public tracker and stay way from private trackers who got rules against stuff like that.

All in all the ENDLESS work tracker staff put down in catching cheaters, traders and sellers is for YOUR good so I REALLY don't understand why you are fighting this. The only users who do NOT benefit of this is... cheaters, traders and sellers.

[Polarbear]

This got nothing to do about freedom of speach, of course everyone should be able to say what they like.
And you say we can't stop traders or cheaters, does that mean we should stop fighting them?

Do you honestly think a tracker would be better or even equally good if trading and cheating was allowed? Have you ever managed a tracker? Have you ever seen a "trader tree" and what kind of users it usually consists of? Do you know what would happen with the ratio economics and seed times if everyone cheated? Because I do, and I can assure you it would be the least successful tracker of all times. If you want trading and cheating to be allowed, use a public tracker and stay way from private trackers who got rules against stuff like that.

All in all the ENDLESS work tracker staff put down in catching cheaters, traders and sellers is for YOUR good so I REALLY don't understand why you are fighting this. The only users who do NOT benefit of this is... cheaters, traders and sellers.

1. Please don't take bilkenter seriously.

2. Good post!

[The Flying Cow]

After World War II, America again deemed the Soviet Union as its main rival. While an ally in the second World War, the Soviet Union was angry that America had arrived so late in the war. The USSR, during the whole course of the war until D-Day, thought the US had viewed them as rivals, and allowed the Soviets to "bleed" and exterminate the Nazis AND the Communists for the convenience of Americans. This, however is untrue, as FDR had been slowly pushing America out of its isolationist status. After the war, Truman, now the President, announced his plan for a Truman Doctrine or, as it was widely known, containment. The plan was to keep Communism from spreading and for the USSR to give up the countries it had obtained during the war. The Soviet Union said no, and America thought that they had planned to spread Communism across the world. What they did not realize is that Russia had lost 20 million soldiers in the war until D-Day, and invaded THREE times since Napoleon last invaded the country. The "Iron Curtain" (countries the USSR obtained in the war) was to act as a buffer zone from future invasions, while Truman believed it was the start of the spread of Communism. Thus, the Cold War began.

Please excuse my language, but this stupid shit ran on for decades, an arms race that lasted caused of disillusioned retards who never communicated. Both sides were CLEARLY apprehensive of each other, but always assumed the other side was making a move.

I think you take an overly simplistic and swift look at what was a much more complex issue. Certainly you can talk about the casualties suffered by the Soviet Union in WW2 but you're leaving a lot out of the picture.

The USSR had a lot of casualties in WW2 because it had bad management of troops, insufficient arms supplies, incapacity to efficiently transport ammunition and supplies to its war fronts (there was, it must not be forgotten, only one, slow and archaic train line in place then), etc; in short, a chaotic situation was in place there. (And have you forgotten the Nazi-Soviet Pact? How could the Americans not view the Soviets as suspicious or two-sided? And how can you excuse the spread and subsequent domination of a great many independent nations surrounding Russia following the war as a justifiable "buffer" against further invasion? It was blatant conquest and assimilation, to make the USSR the foremost big power - be under no illusions.) The simple reason for the fact that soldiers fought barefoot, sometimes with 1 rifle for every 5, is that Communism, though representing what has been hailed as an "innovation, improvement" on the autocratic system in place there, was in fact a completely failed endeavor and served only to ruin Russia and tarnish it's past and long-lost greatness.

Let's be clear here. Many of the Russian Bolsheviks thought that because the 1917 events constituted Russia's bourgeois revolution, they would have to wait a long time before they were followed by the proletarian revolution that was their ultimate goal. It was Lenin and Trotsky who argued that unlike previous bourgeois revolutions, the Russian Revolution could be given a permanency which would enable it to lead on immediately to the dictatorship of the proletariat. Just like the Oliver Cromwell and Napoleon Bonaparte takeovers, the Russian variant ended in military dictatorship throughout the USSR's history. Things were in a rush thrown into their final make-up, one that substituted poor, albeit free, serfs working the land, to a generalized situation of serfs having no impetus to work whatsoever, and throwing themselves ever-increasingly to drink and debauchery.

The Cold War was not an American fetish. The Communist threat was a reality. In an age of ideologies as was the 20th century, Marx and Engels' ideals were spreading at a fast pace. People thought a denial of all of their past and the beginning in a clean slate could really work to relieve them of their problems.

The US should be thanked for acting as it did (even if, to our eyes, the McCarthy anti-Communist years do appear a tad excessive). But surely giving away secrets of the nuclear bomb to the Soviets is considered treason? Surely we are not to take that instance as "American Fascism"? I mean, come on!

We often forget we have the benefit of historical hindsight now, but before the Berlin Wall and Iron Curtain fell, the West did believe the USSR was a threat (it would later be discovered the USSR was a joke, Stalin and his cronies relying solely on copying foreign technology to try to produce something of their own, what have been termed "soddy refrigerators" by one historian.)

Anyway, extrapolating these complex events to a ridiculous and comparatively insignificant quibble amongst BT users seems a tad pretentious, truth be told.

[Albo Da Kid]

OP, you're giving this too much importance. It's simple if you look at it. Most of the every-day bittorrent users are guys who don't get much attention in the everyday life. Now tbh as pointless and boring as the BT is, these users need something to keep it fresh so they invent these new mashups just to get some kind of self setisfaction, cook up something big and hope for guys like you to waste time and write about it. This is a place where everyone is tangling themselves up. That's what happens if you focus your attention more on the drama than the "tracker part itself".
Oh perfect example. For example the Tit guys(no offense) are one of the most dedicated e-drama, trader catching , authority seekers out there and only and I mean only if they dedicated more time on the tracker itself instead, Tit wouldn't suck so much.(im not saying this to diss tit or anything like that, but the truth and the matter is that tit could have been just like the old Tit if you guys didn't waste so much time being somebody else's sheep.)
Op what you also might not know is that a lot of tracker staffers have double personalities.They act as if they care for their tracker like a mother cares for a child, and at the other end they're behind dupe accounts selling invites and trading. Not long ago a bunch of tracker staffers got exposed for being big time traders/sellers themselves. Now imagine how many of them profit behind your backs and feed you righteous bullshit at the same time.

Let me ask you a question. If you were a bored, lonely guy with nothing going on except for a staffer position and everyone around you was/felt the same way. Where would you direct your frustration at?? .....Let me give you a hint. Find the easiest target to point the finger at. A place where everyone seems to focus their attention in sounds like a good spot. Now try to test your userbase's loyalty by sending them in there like sheeps and you stay back and laugh your ass off at the mashup that you've just started. After all it makes you feel important and it takes your mind off the miserable everyday thoughts.
These bored beings pick Fst to clash with, since the Fst mods always put up a good argument and they reply to criticisms. Sometimes I think Skizo is the only one doing it right. He doesn't give a fuck about what any of the two time fuckheads have to say and he feeds them even more material so they can direct their pathetic little hatred at.
Detale(ex-mod) tried to bring Fst and the Tracker staffers together once and the only thing he got in return were insults, a headache + a lost 6 year friendship.

Fuck this loser shit, let the lowlifes deal with it.

Ps. the "Trading= Security breach" excuse is just a pretext which was formed when anti-traders were confronted by the reasonable ones that Traders don't hurt the tracker more than collectors do. Basically they responded by sayin "At least collectors aren't a security issue"...LOL like a riaaa agent wouldn't take time and befriend someone to get into a tracker.

[IdolEyes787]

Sorry to get off topic but anyone seen that Tom Cruise war movie?



Maybe if I wrote it in braille it would help.

[bilkenter]

FST should stick to what they are doing, maybe they can get rid of WTAW or whatever threat that is, they can get rid off it, but they shall always allow people to state what they think, if that is not allowed here, then it is no different than being under a dictatorship. Also banning traders, giving their ips, names et cetera wont solve anything, they will get organized in another place do whatever they want. You cant stop traders or cheaters not unless you start thinking of their reasons to do so. Why does someone trade? ask yourself this, then we might reduce the number of traders in this torrenting. It is really funny for someone who doesnt trade or such to defend others rights, why should i care? i shouldnt but i do it is really fun.

This got nothing to do about freedom of speach, of course everyone should be able to say what they like.
And you say we can't stop traders or cheaters, does that mean we should stop fighting them?

Do you honestly think a tracker would be better or even equally good if trading and cheating was allowed? Have you ever managed a tracker? Have you ever seen a "trader tree" and what kind of users it usually consists of? Do you know what would happen with the ratio economics and seed times if everyone cheated? Because I do, and I can assure you it would be the least successful tracker of all times. If you want trading and cheating to be allowed, use a public tracker and stay way from private trackers who got rules against stuff like that.

It has something to do with freedom of speech. How? The firm attitude you guyz have just pushes traders into underground thereby leading them to suppress what they believe or wanna say. This is why, what you guyz are doing is against the freedom of speech. You will be surprised to see what kinda people are in fs... or ft..., i am not saying they are bad guyz, actually some are really my best friend. All i am saying they are traders and they are in, being a trader or having got that position via trade doesnt make them awful, what matters is afterwards, is he keeping a good ratio? is he active on irc? is he trying to contribute something to the community et cetera? Therefore, i believe there is a need for significant change that will adapt those traders into this system and ban is not the way to go. I am not saying that you shall stop fighting, all i am saying you shall use different means rather than the pure ban on traders as only mechanism of fighting against traders. Also yeah i do believe if trade was allowed, trackers would be a better place. Because that would lead people to be themselves and be more active on the forums thereby leading them to be a part of that community. Also rather than making scapegoats outta traders, you shall blame the system for it. We have certain sites that gives invites only in a year making it valuable. If a site is harder to get into, it is desired by most, since some sites are too closed, making them invaluable, thereby leading people to trader. If that wasnt that hard to get into, just a few trance talk and you are in, or just a few movie talk and you are in bla bla. That way, people would seek what they need, not what is valuable. I could talk about it for quite a lot, anyway this is what i believe

[The Flying Cow]

...


Sorry to get off topic but anyone seen that Tom Cruise war movie?

Maybe if I wrote it in braille it would help.



anyone seen that Tom Cruise war movie?

It's definitely worth it Idol. Very impressive picture. TBH I was surprised, seeing as Tinkertown tends to edit history and say it like it wasn't. Valkyrie is not the case.


Most of the every-day bittorrent users are guys who don't get much attention in the everyday life. Now tbh as pointless and boring as the BT is, these users need something to keep it fresh so they invent these new mashups just to get some kind of self setisfaction, cook up something big and hope for guys like you to waste time and write about it.

:lol:

[CaptanAmerica]

/me is confuzed

[dakat]

Sadly its about changing attitudes. Traders think they have a right to something even if they haven't earned the right to have the item they desire. Personally I am on more sites than I need. And on most of the desired sites. I have done this in less than two years time by networking not trading. If you want something its all the more sweeter when you have gotten it the right way rather than cheating and stealing to get there.

Its like the prize that as children we desired the most and most of our families made us save for by doing extra chores and doing stuff for neighbors to earn that extra dollar. All the more sweeter once we realize we have enough saved to get what we wanted.

And if the analogy is that they have nothing better to do than to sit there are trade then why don't they take the time to network and get something no strings attached

[bilkenter]

this topic is a loser from the beginning, who cares about traders and non traders? i am neutral, i have awesome trader friends, i dont suppose it is against rules to befriend a trader right? if so, do write so in your rules, anyway they are just really awesome i luv them end of story, at least they are honest about who you are and dont follow trackers with blind faith... geez talked too much, dont care dont wanna care.

[Polarbear]

traders are n00bs because they're still looking for invites to bittorrent sites.

[The_Martinator]

Well, I haven't been her for a long time, but I did know about FST's rep before joining and it wasn't good back then.
I honestly don't think the trade section will ever be erased, or the WTAW thread for that matter. I'm not here for that, I'm here to chat and discuss BT. It is funny sometimes to read the posts in that section. Some people don't know (or act as) simple English.

[IdolEyes787]

Some people don't know (or act as) simple English.

Simple English

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/images/useravatar/avatar158265_18.gif


Plain English


http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/celeb/top_100/judi_dench.jpg



English muffin

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2-7AdSkZA7I/RoE_WPVtpgI/AAAAAAAAHWI/0vm_VpC0d5c/s400/kate_beckinsale_55.jpg

[The_Martinator]

Lol, I guess I gotta brush up on that kinda stuff.

[deadalive1]

And you say we can't stop traders or cheaters, does that mean we should stop fighting them?

Do you honestly think a tracker would be better or even equally good if trading and cheating was allowed? Have you ever managed a tracker? Have you ever seen a "trader tree" and what kind of users it usually consists of? Do you know what would happen with the ratio economics and seed times if everyone cheated? Because I do, and I can assure you it would be the least successful tracker of all times. If you want trading and cheating to be allowed, use a public tracker and stay way from private trackers who got rules against stuff like that.

All in all the ENDLESS work tracker staff put down in catching cheaters, traders and sellers is for YOUR good so I REALLY don't understand why you are fighting this. The only users who do NOT benefit of this is... cheaters, traders and sellers.

Being staff myself this post is 100% accurate. Most traders (not all, after all there are always exceptions to any given rule) don't think about that at all. They are generally a selfish lot, the "me first" attitude tends to be the mantra of most of them.

A lot of them say it isn't about any sort of level, but look in the trade section and see for yourself, hell there's one now titled want lvl 8,9,10.

Why not instead of trading make some friends (the right way, not the trading way) and if you are a quality human being you wouldn't even have to ask for ANY trackers. Good people search out other good people and can see qualities that they think could add something to a particular tracker/forum/IRC..

It seems that people who trade can't/don't want to take the time and make friends (it's too slow for them apparently) and just want what they want when they want it (proving the "me first" selfish attitude).

Undoubtedly some trader will respond with some bullshit about how trading doesn't do any harm to any site and that they are well within their rights to trade. That is utter bullshit in and of itself. Just about EVERY single tracker out there has 1 hard and fast rule...NO ACCOUNT TRADING,SELLING..NO INVITE TRADING OR SELLING. <-- what part of that is not understandable?

Traders who say they use and respect trackers they have traded for conveniently forget they violated another trackers rule to get into the one they wanted. So apparently it is ok to violate 1 site to gain access to another (until of course something better comes along and then that site they wanted NOW becomes a means to gain entrance to somewhere else and therefore violate THAT trackers rules to get into another).

The fact that FST has a trade section and openly supports it (yes, you are supporting it by keeping it alive, whether you want to admit it or not) is a direct slap in the face to Admins, staffers and the quality users of any tracker.

[bilkenter]

And you say we can't stop traders or cheaters, does that mean we should stop fighting them?

Do you honestly think a tracker would be better or even equally good if trading and cheating was allowed? Have you ever managed a tracker? Have you ever seen a "trader tree" and what kind of users it usually consists of? Do you know what would happen with the ratio economics and seed times if everyone cheated? Because I do, and I can assure you it would be the least successful tracker of all times. If you want trading and cheating to be allowed, use a public tracker and stay way from private trackers who got rules against stuff like that.

All in all the ENDLESS work tracker staff put down in catching cheaters, traders and sellers is for YOUR good so I REALLY don't understand why you are fighting this. The only users who do NOT benefit of this is... cheaters, traders and sellers.

Being staff myself this post is 100% accurate. Most traders (not all, after all there are always exceptions to any given rule) don't think about that at all. They are generally a selfish lot, the "me first" attitude tends to be the mantra of most of them.

A lot of them say it isn't about any sort of level, but look in the trade section and see for yourself, hell there's one now titled want lvl 8,9,10.

Why not instead of trading make some friends (the right way, not the trading way) and if you are a quality human being you wouldn't even have to ask for ANY trackers. Good people search out other good people and can see qualities that they think could add something to a particular tracker/forum/IRC..

It seems that people who trade can't/don't want to take the time and make friends (it's too slow for them apparently) and just want what they want when they want it (proving the "me first" selfish attitude).

Undoubtedly some trader will respond with some bullshit about how trading doesn't do any harm to any site and that they are well within their rights to trade. That is utter bullshit in and of itself. Just about EVERY single tracker out there has 1 hard and fast rule...NO ACCOUNT TRADING,SELLING..NO INVITE TRADING OR SELLING. <-- what part of that is not understandable?

Traders who say they use and respect trackers they have traded for conveniently forget they violated another trackers rule to get into the one they wanted. So apparently it is ok to violate 1 site to gain access to another (until of course something better comes along and then that site they wanted NOW becomes a means to gain entrance to somewhere else and therefore violate THAT trackers rules to get into another).

The fact that FST has a trade section and openly supports it (yes, you are supporting it by keeping it alive, whether you want to admit it or not) is a direct slap in the face to Admins, staffers and the quality users of any tracker.

THANK YOU hearing that meant a lot, someone who actually understood us! for the other parts, just have one thing to say, if they were to come to a staff and say, hey my friend, Lets take into account a metal music specialized site,

i am in luv with metal music that your site can provide, My favourite bands are those, and i have these files at my disposal et cetera, i am really interested in getting to know metal music luvers and share what i have with them. You dont have to invite me now or anything, but i would really luv to be in your site, and i think i can contribute it in my own war, may be active on irc, post some of my own staff, try to be a good member as much as i can be. You dont have to get me in now, just get to know me my(as an example) music style et cetera, if you think i am worth having as a member, then please consider my application to join the site, i am willing to be in that site.

now i havent written quite a nice presentation i know it, imagine that someone with interest in metal music pmed a metal music staff about it. Would he give him an invite?BTW i am not saying he has to, all i am saying is that there is no such a place for the people with same interests to talk and invite each other especially for a dedicated tracker, if that is the case, where do you expect them to get it? friends? Not everyone is as demanding as others. One might not have the courage to ask for an invite from someone because that would be seen as a friendship based on invite. Or one might not like to post requests because some others might ridicule them for what they requested.Anyway quite a complex issue.

sorry not a very good post... but still hopefully you got the main idea, thank you for the previous words really. It meant a lot.

[TrueBusiness]

First of all, I want to say The Flying Cow's assessment of the Cold War is correct. There was of course a Communist threat, and the Rosenbergs and the Venona files clearly proved that. I took an overly simplistic view (as you said) of this, as no one is really interested in a history lesson and to exemplify one point. What I aimed to do was mention the lack of communication, which you must admit, was a major issue in this. You are correct though; it's a more complicated issue and linking this is bittorrent was rather a bad move. Truman was a very brusque character, and had FDR been President (who was on friendly terms with Stalin, mind you), perhaps much of this could have been avoided.

Regarding the majority of the posts in this thread, I am NOT scapegoating FST. I am, however, wondering about some of the things that make FST what it is. T.S.O.L. mentioned that communication will not help anymore. Sure, talking to tracker staff is one thing, but providing the actions behind it is another.

It is an obvious reason, but the reason FST is a scapegoat for most of these matters is the trader forum. I, of course, am biased for those who wish to remove it. I do not understand the mentality of traders because 1) it's actually harder to get traders and 2) they DO breach site security, and as sexton noted, have pretty bad invitees.

@bilkenter, the point isn't about free speech. I am all for that. I mentioned in my original post that instead of having a trading section, members could guide these traders along instead of bashing them. I understand what you mean bilkenter. There is a sudden urge to join sites, and trading just seems the quickest way to do it. Is getting banned eventually really worth it though? It's harder to get into trackers by trading than by actually progressing.

@Albo Da Kid. You say that I give this too much importance. From the posts I have seen you made, I can safely say that YOU are pretty much entrenched in the drama that this forum provides. I KNOW FST staff are intelligent. It is obvious from the posts that they make. I am not pointing fingers at them saying they are doing everything wrong. I am just wondering about their motives in keeping some of the forums that this contains.

FST is not completely at fault. Tracker staff have seemingly gone too far in some cases in protecting their sites, some situations I am well aware of. As Artemis said, the WTAW and trader forums bring much attention to trackers who just don't want it, and in turn, brings in cheaters and traders who are not really good characters. I know that FST has had a notorious stance among trackers as being extremely defiant and taking a hard stance in keeping reviews up, etc. From a thread I have seen, Bittorrent has now transcended the simple Internet identity. People are at risk of their personal identity. This, in my opinion, is getting extremely out of hand for something that is already not particularly safe doing already. For the reviews: sure, free speech, but again, I have never understood revealing sites that clearly are risking themselves from the very beginning for the enjoyment of others.

[bilkenter]

First of all, I want to say The Flying Cow's assessment of the Cold War is correct. There was of course a Communist threat, and the Rosenbergs and the Venona files clearly proved that. I took an overly simplistic view (as you said) of this, as no one is really interested in a history lesson and to exemplify one point. What I aimed to do was mention the lack of communication, which you must admit, was a major issue in this. You are correct though; it's a more complicated issue and linking this is bittorrent was rather a bad move. Truman was a very brusque character, and had FDR been President (who was on friendly terms with Stalin, mind you), perhaps much of this could have been avoided.

Regarding the majority of the posts in this thread, I am NOT scapegoating FST. I am, however, wondering about some of the things that make FST what it is. T.S.O.L. mentioned that communication will not help anymore. Sure, talking to tracker staff is one thing, but providing the actions behind it is another.

It is an obvious reason, but the reason FST is a scapegoat for most of these matters is the trader forum. I, of course, am biased for those who wish to remove it. I do not understand the mentality of traders because 1) it's actually harder to get traders and 2) they DO breach site security, and as sexton noted, have pretty bad invitees.

@bilkenter, the point isn't about free speech. I am all for that. I mentioned in my original post that instead of having a trading section, members could guide these traders along instead of bashing them. I understand what you mean bilkenter. There is a sudden urge to join sites, and trading just seems the quickest way to do it. Is getting banned eventually really worth it though? It's harder to get into trackers by trading than by actually progressing.

@Albo Da Kid. You say that I give this too much importance. From the posts I have seen you made, I can safely say that YOU are pretty much entrenched in the drama that this forum provides. I KNOW FST staff are intelligent. It is obvious from the posts that they make. I am not pointing fingers at them saying they are doing everything wrong. I am just wondering about their motives in keeping some of the forums that this contains.

FST is not completely at fault. Tracker staff have seemingly gone too far in some cases in protecting their sites, some situations I am well aware of. As Artemis said, the WTAW and trader forums bring much attention to trackers who just don't want it, and in turn, brings in cheaters and traders who are not really good characters. I know that FST has had a notorious stance among trackers as being extremely defiant and taking a hard stance in keeping reviews up, etc. From a thread I have seen, Bittorrent has now transcended the simple Internet identity. People are at risk of their personal identity. This, in my opinion, is getting extremely out of hand for something that is already not particularly safe doing already. For the reviews: sure, free speech, but again, I have never understood revealing sites that clearly are risking themselves from the very beginning for the enjoyment of others.
Honestly, if i knew that some staff are willing to listen those traders and try to get to know them and not generalize the fact that all traders are bad selfish and a security breach bla bla, i would definitely try to help them keep their site secure. I would encourage my trader friends to give up what they were doing and ask what they need really. This is why i am saying, dont ban them, try reasoning with them. Honestly, i do it for some trackers like bcg(banned) scc(banned) revtt tdc , i dont want to see any traders or someone that is detrimental to the site either because that would be like the cutting the branch that you are sitting on. But not all traders are the same. I luv the staff there, they are mature really, stoi is open to reason like scc or others. This is the reason why i dont wanna see anyone harmful to the site no more than you do. But Trading shouldnt be a sin, the sin must be what they do afterwards (only leeching?, causing site problems et cetera)

[sez]

First of all the war on terror is in pakistan,iraq has always been the wrong frontier...i'll explain.there are sites that are dedicated to trading and yes there is this one that is solely for selling of invites,so if its safety that worries u,be rest assured u are fighting a myth.if they want u they will have u with or without fst.

Secondly,I don't understand why you blame society for you having birthed,adopted and raising your kids into prostitutes and pedophiles yet you are the parent...
These traders/sellers are your beloved donors.you made them with this policy of give me money i give you invites,so its really immature and hypocritical for anyone to lay full blame on one party here(please challenge that to see how ignorant u are)....

Hypothetically speaking,its only the scene that can end all this level bs(they stop this release racing for a while)...maybe then we could have bt as it used to be,community,spirit and genuine filesharing(who here remembers the demonoid forums of old?)and even today,their fora are still miles ahead of some of these so called elite trackers...

I don't know,how many trackers today can survive by just having the community part alive...
Also what happened to open sign ups,i mean seriously,i recall bitme having a /signup.php every so often(and this argument of MPAA will signup is pure bullshit as again thanks to *************s they will buy their way in,if they want in)and i also tend to believe that people who care whether sites are open are genuine BT users..(just look at the trackers open for signups sticky)so in essence whether u want to acknowledge it or not,its you who made these traders and sellers..whether its by making access impossible or this money for invites policy...it all comes down to the tracker,ScL is as good as any of those trackers,yet you barely hear them complain or pick fights all over the net coz of traders/sellers...just take a look at bribery and you will see the corelation with this trader/seller e-drama.

[1000possibleclaws]

For the reviews: sure, free speech, but again, I have never understood revealing sites that clearly are risking themselves from the very beginning for the enjoyment of others.

I have always seen them as a way of countering the value put on trackers by the the WTAW thread. People can see from the reviews what a tracker is like without having to get an invite/account.

[Skiz]

From the threads I have seen, it seems as if the FST staff and tracker staff are pitted against each other in a perpetual quandary and battle. Being somewhat in this kind of situation for quite a while, I feel it is really essential for both sides to stop the miscommunication.

That's where you're dead wrong. We (mods) don't really care about any of this stuff nearly as much as you guys and the staffers. We don't get worked up enough about any of this to bother with the name calling and whatnot.

I can assure you that the "battle" they are fighting is completely one sided; no one is fighting back with the petty games and pseudo-attacks. We aren't pushing back at all for that matter. We've got our backs turned and are enjoying our own site as usual. They can have the drama.

[niceguy4]

Hi.

I feel it is time that FST has had a real thread full of honest questions and clear answers. I will look at both sides of this recurring issue and hope to address it once and for all, which seems rather unlikely. For years (literally), lack of coherent communication has hindered an enjoyable process that was once "merely sharing files." The online drama, funny enough, is rather a immature evolution from what we truly wanted.

From the threads I have seen, it seems as if the FST staff and tracker staff are pitted against each other in a perpetual quandary and battle. Being somewhat in this kind of situation for quite a while, I feel it is really essential for both sides to stop the miscommunication.

Bittorrent, in its core sense, is to share files. No doubt since it's appearance in 2001, and its widespread use starting in 2004, it has escalated to much more than that. While it had been mostly used as a method for friends online to share files at first, we have developed into a hypocritical online network full of liars and backstabbers. Since their commencement, trackers are now exhibited in a "What Trackers Are Worth" thread, apparently largely catered to "traders." This is no doubt a violation of site rules, sites of which many FST staff are on.

Now, I ask you, why? Traders, in reality, rarely use the trackers they trade. Ironically, they use the the trackers they have successfully traded as "trophy trackers," trackers that represent nothing but its face value as a name. Now rather than actually use the site, they again trade accounts and invites for what they deem as a "higher level tracker," a number superficially branded based on rarity to represent a tracker.

Traders, in real life, are normal human beings like you and me. Online, however, they can have ten or even twenty alternate identities. We have all heard of trader hunters. Their essential goal is to rid of these users from trackers, mostly for one reason. Traders compromise site security, just as the reviews in the WTAW thread do. While FST staff seems to value their members' security and deem it their admirable quality, it is a paradoxical action when they do not seem to realize trackers are doing the same. What most of us is illegal, yet they condone the fact that traders should be helped in their desires to achieve the delusional goal of attaining a "tracker." Is there some hidden motive behind this? I leave this to FST staff to ponder, whether or not they decide to announce it publicly. Don't tell me it's to satiate the needs of traders. If FST really cared about them, they would advise them with a thread of the detrimental qualities of trading and lead them in the right direction instead of condoning these actions.

On another note, allow me to make an example with history that pretty much sums up the e-drama that has been going on for quite a while now.

After World War II, America again deemed the Soviet Union as its main rival. While an ally in the second World War, the Soviet Union was angry that America had arrived so late in the war. The USSR, during the whole course of the war until D-Day, thought the US had viewed them as rivals, and allowed the Soviets to "bleed" and exterminate the Nazis AND the Communists for the convenience of Americans. This, however is untrue, as FDR had been slowly pushing America out of its isolationist status. After the war, Truman, now the President, announced his plan for a Truman Doctrine or, as it was widely known, containment. The plan was to keep Communism from spreading and for the USSR to give up the countries it had obtained during the war. The Soviet Union said no, and America thought that they had planned to spread Communism across the world. What they did not realize is that Russia had lost 20 million soldiers in the war until D-Day, and invaded THREE times since Napoleon last invaded the country. The "Iron Curtain" (countries the USSR obtained in the war) was to act as a buffer zone from future invasions, while Truman believed it was the start of the spread of Communism. Thus, the Cold War began.

Please excuse my language, but this stupid shit ran on for decades, an arms race that lasted caused of disillusioned retards who never communicated. Both sides were CLEARLY apprehensive of each other, but always assumed the other side was making a move.

If you haven't realized yet, this analogy fits rather perfectly in our Bittorrent world. Tracker staff, being Soviet Russia, are apprehensive of invasions from bad users. They closed their doors, and people started characterizing them as being "1337." FST staff, being America, keep a staunch position on keeping their traders and reviews, sadly not admitting the fact that trackers are having their security ruined by these users. No matter the experience of a tracker staff, they are there to protect their site, regardless of they seeming immaturity.

On the other hand, tracker staff are so ruthless in their catching traders that people start thinking they're crazy. It's a dog eat dog world to them, and they will do anything to protect their site rather than protect YOU. It may not be entirely understandable to everyone, but they are more secretive about their trackers and members, as they are so conspicuously doing something more wrong than hosting a public site about file sharing. Some tracker staff are truly immature; it's a pity. The situations at hand is the amount of traders FST hosts and the paranoia of staff to protect their sites.

I have typed enough to prove my point. Most of you probably did not read it entirely due to your lack of wanting to read long paragraphs, but I strongly suggest we take a clear approach to this right now rather than go on for months with meaningless topic. You may accuse me of having no life, but I will say, that if you have any opinion concerning this, that you partake in this thread with some explanations that will elucidate this situation.

This topic may not change anything. So be it. However, I strongly hope we will change the attitude of both sides, both of whom are very protective of their stances, largely due to dearth of cooperation between both camps.

I will probably return to this thread and reply again, with a much shorter post to address the short attention span of the majority of bittorrent users.

With that, bye for now and good luck.

dam... i will never get back the 2 minutes i wasted to read this post.... nor the beer.... i hate my life :(

[TrueBusiness]

Example:

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-fst-junk-place-thanks-one-and-only-skizoooo-344095

[Bone.W.Machine]

Example:

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-fst-junk-place-thanks-one-and-only-skizoooo-344095This is an example of what? :unsure:

[Skiz]

Example:

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-fst-junk-place-thanks-one-and-only-skizoooo-344095This is an example of what? :unsure:

Did you even bother to read the first post?

[Bone.W.Machine]

This is an example of what? :unsure:

Did you even bother to read the first post?What do you think? Just look at it... no way I'm reading all that. :blink:

[dakat]

From the threads I have seen, it seems as if the FST staff and tracker staff are pitted against each other in a perpetual quandary and battle. Being somewhat in this kind of situation for quite a while, I feel it is really essential for both sides to stop the miscommunication.

That's where you're dead wrong. We (mods) don't really care about any of this stuff nearly as much as you guys and the staffers. We don't get worked up enough about any of this to bother with the name calling and whatnot.

I can assure you that the "battle" they are fighting is completely one sided; no one is fighting back with the petty games and pseudo-attacks. We aren't pushing back at all for that matter. We've got our backs turned and are enjoying our own site as usual. They can have the drama.


See thats where FST is going wrong they could careless about what tracker rules are as long as they can do their thing. Forget about trackers wishes, Protect the old line and not have a new way of thinking. We have seen how that's going

[FaithNoMore]

Just about EVERY single tracker out there has 1 hard and fast rule...NO ACCOUNT TRADING,SELLING..NO INVITE TRADING OR SELLING. <-- what part of that is not understandable?

I don't understand this part:

TTi - http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1442/tti.jpg
TranceRoute - http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2185/42028284.jpg

[bilkenter]

Just about EVERY single tracker out there has 1 hard and fast rule...NO ACCOUNT TRADING,SELLING..NO INVITE TRADING OR SELLING. <-- what part of that is not understandable?

I don't understand this part:

TTi - http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1442/tti.jpg
TranceRoute - http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2185/42028284.jpg
I knew it too but didnt occur to me at the time, nice one

[TrueBusiness]

@FaithNoMore and bilkenter, he said "just about," therefore not enveloping every single tracker out there.

@T.S.O.L, your statement would be somewhat flawed, unless people followed the BT news everyday. I don't see how the current reviews distinguish one tracker from another, especially with every tracker having the same screenshots.

Say the Black Rabbit tracker review and the FTN review. Both are very similar in terms of the screenshots. What differentiates both trackers can be only described in text. Why bother with the pictures? From a first glance, I would be more interested in BR, not FTN.

Can someone elucidate why Detale was banned? A previous poster mentioned that it was because he was trying to bring tracker staff and FST staff together... Intersting.

[Disme]

Way to much reading ... always the same discussions ... pointless and not nearly enough pictures to gain my intrest. It's like reading an encyclopedia over and over again.
At least Fun T. Clapz made an effort to lift this thread to the level it's supposed to be ... fun and games.

[Skiz]

Can someone elucidate why Detale was banned? A previous poster mentioned that it was because he was trying to bring tracker staff and FST staff together... Intersting.

What the heck is interesting about it? Banned from where?

On a side note, we don't care anything about being "together". We run our site; they run theirs.

[NinjaX]

.....
Can someone elucidate why Detale was banned? A previous poster mentioned that it was because he was trying to bring tracker staff and FST staff together... Intersting.

He wasnt banned, just demoted from hes status as a BT-section Moderator.

[IdolEyes787]

Just to make it clear.It was his decision.

[The Flying Cow]

Just to make it clear.It was his decision.

Did you like Valkyrie?

[Old_Swift_acct]

Just to make it clear.It was his decision.

Did you like Valkyrie?

proper release ?

[Albo Da Kid]

He wasn't banned.. This is just a plot to lure one of his enemies into a trap by making it look like Detale is furious at the Fst staff... and wants to expose personal info about skizoo aswell lmaooo

(melvinmewo is probably shitting bricks after reading this)

[IdolEyes787]

Just to make it clear.It was his decision.

Did you like Valkyrie?


With another actor in the lead role it would have been better.

Aside from the fact the Mr Cruise was speaking a entirely different dialect than everyone else,he just brings too much baggage to a role that required a bit of believability.

Aside from that I would say not a bad film though it is hard to make a great one where people go in already knowing the ending.
(If you want to see an assassination movie that overcomes that obvious sticking point check out The Day of the Jackal...the original not the garbage remake with Bruce Willis.... although I did enjoy Jack Black getting his arm blown off:shifty:)

[Artemis]

(If you want to see an assassination movie that overcomes that obvious sticking point check out The Day of the Jackal...the original not the garbage remake with Bruce Willis.... although I did enjoy Jack Black getting his arm blown off:shifty:)

By a 14.5mm Cannon no less, truly gruesome...........

[bumrocks]

traders are n00bs because they're still looking for invites to bittorrent sites.

Nice simplistic way to look at it...Couldn't agree more! In my BT experience I would have to agree that alot if not most are impatient users who try and trade and often trade badly. Very few are actually hard to catch. Unfortunately, there is a steady of influx of them and it just rehashes the cycle when they do get caught and banned cause now they want the site even worse...All over again...

[Patriot foreve]

(melvinmewo is probably shitting bricks after reading this)

i miss melvin and his pink pants jokes ,there was some nice drama threads back in the days

[TrueBusiness]

so uhh IdolEyes787... Would your posts be considered spam? Ironic, as a mod, that you introduce a completely random topic completely unrelated to this thread.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-warning-spam-infractions-make-comeback-328238

...

Perhaps this thread has served its point already.

[Disme]

traders are n00bs because they're still looking for invites to bittorrent sites.

I do wonder what you think about people that hang around on IRC and tracker-forums for 24 hours a day and you see them popping up in every place related to BT in about 1 month time.

I'm against trading, but I have found out that the hardest to get trackers are all populated with the same people. I guess these people are n00bs too, because they're still looking for invites to bittorrent sites. Not as obvious as a trader or a real newbie does, but still they are.
They hardly ever decline an invite when presented and keep chasing the ones that aren't in the're portfolio yet.

[Bone.W.Machine]

traders are n00bs because they're still looking for invites to bittorrent sites.

I do wonder what you think about people that hang around on IRC and tracker-forums for 24 hours a day and you see them popping up in every place related to BT in about 1 month time.

I'm against trading, but I have found out that the hardest to get trackers are all populated with the same people. I guess these people are n00bs too, because they're still looking for invites to bittorrent sites. Not as obvious as a trader or a real newbie does, but still they are.
They hardly ever decline an invite when presented and keep chasing the ones that aren't in the're portfolio yet.Good point there, Disme.
I see the same faces no matter where I go, and I've also received multiple pms asking about invites from persons that collects.
And even though I deny them an invite I will see them on the tracker they asked about in a day or two anyways. :P


so uhh IdolEyes787... Would your posts be considered spam? Ironic, as a mod, that you introduce a completely random topic completely unrelated to this thread.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-warning-spam-infractions-make-comeback-328238

...

Perhaps this thread has served its point already.
What would this place be without spam? Boring if you ask me.
IdolEyes is doing a great job here. :king:

[benficao]

If they, spend that much time, effort, and are nice guys, who really like to know ppl, make friends, help out in anyway, development, supporting, Etc,

Thats not a bad thing at all.

I know some of them, and mostly, theyre great ppl, who really like to get envolved, in trackers.

Thats a good thing, i think, since at least everyone knows them, they dont have notting to hide.

Maybe a closed group off ppl, but notting much. (ps: not all of them are collectors, simple curiosity, or instead, off playing games, etc, they prefer to spend their time on the irc, whille in their job hours, or something)

[IdolEyes787]

so uhh IdolEyes787... Would your posts be considered spam? Ironic, as a mod, that you introduce a completely random topic completely unrelated to this thread.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-warning-spam-infractions-make-comeback-328238

...

Perhaps this thread has served its point already.

I only believe something is spam if it's sole purpose is to harmful,either against the thread or against another person posting in it.Even then it will have to be an extreme case before I will penalize anyone for it. cough cough Bone

I don't see discussion or joking as spam .In case you hadn't noticed rl conversation has a tendency to wander off topic. I think the technical term is being friendly but I am not really that smart so I could be wrong.

Besides if you truly want to know the post wasn't really about the movie Valkyrie at all it was an inside joke about my feelings about certain policies here at FST and therefore actually on topic :O.

[danio]

Good point there, Disme.
I see the same faces no matter where I go, and I've also received multiple pms asking about invites from persons that collects.
And even though I deny them an invite I will see them on the tracker they asked about in a day or two anyways. :P

Does this mean that you are everywhere yourself? :D (j/k btw, because i already know that you are) :stuart:

[Bone.W.Machine]

Good point there, Disme.
I see the same faces no matter where I go, and I've also received multiple pms asking about invites from persons that collects.
And even though I deny them an invite I will see them on the tracker they asked about in a day or two anyways. :P

Does this mean that you are everywhere yourself? :D (j/k btw, because i already know that you are) :stuart:
No, I'm not everywhere, but I used to be at many places. :lol:

[danio]

I do wonder what you think about people that hang around on IRC and tracker-forums for 24 hours a day and you see them popping up in every place related to BT in about 1 month time.

I'm against trading, but I have found out that the hardest to get trackers are all populated with the same people. I guess these people are n00bs too, because they're still looking for invites to bittorrent sites. Not as obvious as a trader or a real newbie does, but still they are.
They hardly ever decline an invite when presented and keep chasing the ones that aren't in the're portfolio yet.

Tell me Disme, how do you know all this unless you are a member of the very same trackers yourself?

This goes out to every elitist on this board who judge people they see on the forums and irc channels of these smaller trackers for being collectors, saying "no matter where i go there's always the same people talking in the forums". How do you know this? Think about that for a second. Don't be too quick to judge others because you might be just as much of a collector yourself.

Disme, i apologize if i misinterpreted your post and quoted you unfairly.

[The Flying Cow]

Ultimately the trackers you join should really be just an image of what you steal from the web.

Being in a tracker without, even if sporadically, stopping by there to get something, is just pointless.

Being in trackers and bragging about it is the saddest of all though.

[Intr4ns1t]

[start novel]

My question in the whole collector issue, is where is the line between someone who is in a bunch of sites for e-penis, versus someone who is in a bunch of sites for politics, or even for the bigger community that drives the private tracker world. 2 of the 3 I don't see a problem with tbh, and don't know why anyone would. As long as interaction is occurring, and files are moving, those latter 2 cases are perfectly legitimate to me.

It's generally those members that are part of the bigger BT community that keep sites online, either through possessing and using a seedbox, or facilitating cross-site communication, not to mention, they are generally the members that actually donate to the trackers they love which is the most neccessary factor in ANY tracker staying online.

As far as politics, well... politics are a part of BT and will be as long as there is any social aspect to this field. The truth is, if you get heavily involved in any site that makes community a focus, and partake of the private bt world outside just one site, it's hard not to be at least a little curious about the sites that get talked about elsewhere. With so many sites out there, how could you not?

Truth is, trackers are easily equated with the baseball card craze of the 80's and 90's. As their popularity grew, the relative value of those cards grew at an astronomical rate until there were lots of cards worth thousands of dollars out there, which only served to drive that inflation even harder and faster. They then started to stop being about the game that they were a representation of, and started being about money alone. Rarity was a primary determination of worth, and if the parallel inferred by that isn't obvious, then I recommend spectacles.

Anyone who was a collector had a copy of Beckett's Baseball Card Price guide (=WTAW) to keep from getting robbed at the local card shows, and the really devout collectors subscribed to Becketts monthly periodical showing up to date changes in the worth of cards based on performance, popularity, rarity and quality. hmmm...

Frankly, the question really should be, how did trackers become a commodity? FST didn't do that, no matter how many people like think so. The WTAW thread may perpetuate the commodity aspect, but they didn't start that fire burning. I, personally, think that the commodity aspect is the biggest problem in private trackers and the communities that surround and support them.

I really wish I knew how that could be removed, but barring going public like mininova or isohunt, it's almost unavoidable, so you deal with it as staff. I know that the thing I hate most in my user base in inactivity, not traders. I don't actually hate traders as human beings, because that is just absurd. That may sound silly, especially considering our stance on traders, but to consider someone a lesser form of life or something to that effect because they are a trader is just ridiculous to me.

The main problem in trading, is that it's taking the "tracker" out of trackers. It stops being about torrents, and starts being about a wholly different thing than collecting files. That "thing" is incongruous with the goal of the sites themselves, and that's what makes it so dangerous. It makes security measures ineffective via removing the care for security. In fact, it has become about countering those very security measures, and that is very dangerous indeed.

Even if only 1 out of 1000 traders is a truly dangerous person to give access to ip's of your member base, that is still a defeat of the understood goal of private trackers, namely to protect those ip's.

[end novel]

I'm sure most folks will consider this post "tldr", but that is how I view things from my experience.

[Disme]

I do wonder what you think about people that hang around on IRC and tracker-forums for 24 hours a day and you see them popping up in every place related to BT in about 1 month time.

I'm against trading, but I have found out that the hardest to get trackers are all populated with the same people. I guess these people are n00bs too, because they're still looking for invites to bittorrent sites. Not as obvious as a trader or a real newbie does, but still they are.
They hardly ever decline an invite when presented and keep chasing the ones that aren't in the're portfolio yet.

Tell me Disme, how do you know all this unless you are a member of the very same trackers yourself?

This goes out to every elitist on this board who judge people they see on the forums and irc channels of these smaller trackers for being collectors, saying "no matter where i go there's always the same people talking in the forums". How do you know this? Think about that for a second. Don't be too quick to judge others because you might be just as much of a collector yourself.

Disme, i apologize if i misinterpreted your post and quoted you unfairly.

I am indeed part of a fair share of trackers, but I know I could be in a whole lot more if I adopted another strategy. The strategy I described earlier. Being omnipresent for a while in IRC and tracker communities to get to know people and go on an invite-scavenge. And when getting to know people a litlle better starting to sollicitate for invites to places that aren't on their memberships-list yet.

That's not my modus-operandi. I tend to get to know people better and if they like me and think I could be an asset to the places they already reside and I don't they will offer me an invite, but I will not sollicitate for that myself in any way. I also decline a lot of offers, since some dedicated trackers just don't appeal to me, no matter what 'level' or 'rarity'.

I'm targetting people that tend to be everywhere and are rather active when arriving in a new place, but the moment they get a new spot on an even rarer tracker you can see their activity decline and shift to that new place, until they shift to yet another new tracker.

In the end they are omnipresent, but they stop contributing to all those places they are members. Off course not all people are like that and I know a whole lot of guys that are everywhere and remain active (I guess they have a lot of spare time :))

My reply was directed towards PB's statements on traders being n00bs because they were still chasing invites. If this is a correct assumption, not only traders are n00bs ... the other non-traders I was just describing would be n00bs too because they are also chasing invites trough other methods.

[Skiz]

so uhh IdolEyes787... Would your posts be considered spam? Ironic, as a mod, that you introduce a completely random topic completely unrelated to this thread.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-warning-spam-infractions-make-comeback-328238

...

Perhaps this thread has served its point already.

You're all over the place there. What post are you talking about?

[The Flying Cow]

That's not my modus-operandi. I tend to get to know people better and if they like me and think I could be an asset to the places they already reside and I don't they will offer me an invite, but I will not sollicitate for that myself in any way.

Come on Disme drop the patronizing tone already. We've all seen you beg Feeling for an ScT invite, with a drawing done by your daughter no less. Don't tell me you started knowing Feeling better before that. The guy's a prick. You just wanted in.

Everyone here's done their share of efforts to get accepted places.

It shouldn't be a motive for embarrassment; quite the contrary, it shows how selective and in the end difficult the entry process can be, as it should. Some places are not for everyone.



I'm targetting people that tend to be everywhere and are rather active when arriving in a new place, but the moment they get a new spot on an even rarer tracker you can see their activity decline and shift to that new place, until they shift to yet another new tracker.

In the end they are omnipresent, but they stop contributing to all those places they are members.

You're making generalizations based on what charts and graphs? How are you certain of this 'trend'?

We all go through a curve of more activity towards the beginning of our experience in a good new tracker, and steady decline as the novelty wears off. Another factor that needs to be equated is free time and the real world.

Not everyone can surf trackers daily or even weekly, due to work.



My reply was directed towards PB's statements on traders being n00bs because they were still chasing invites. If this is a correct assumption, not only traders are n00bs ... the other non-traders I was just describing would be n00bs too because they are also chasing invites trough other methods.

Nobody's a newbie. PB was teasing bilkenter. There's nothing wrong with wanting into the more exclusive trackers, and that shouldn't be bashed.

Again you speak as if you didn't try to get your trackers somehow. Ultimately if it was through IRC or PM's or REQs or Lucky Draws or Competitions or GA's or whatever is irrelevant.

It is how you treat the tracker that matters. You don't need to be active 24-7 to deserve respect or to be immune to criticism. People are active according to the time they have available, and that is laid out on a person-to-person basis.

Leave tracker-chasers alone. At the end of the day the trackers need activity and interest in them, or they'll just wilt and die.

[Disme]

Come on Disme drop the patronizing tone already. We've all seen you beg Feeling for an ScT invite, with a drawing done by your daughter no less. Don't tell me you started knowing Feeling better before that. The guy's a prick. You just wanted in.

So now I beg because I participated in a giveaway started by the owner of a private tracker. I don't know but I don't see any harm in that. Not to the tracker, not to FST not to anybody in fact, except maybe you because it ain't the first time you replied to me about it. You were just the Shaman back than. Nothing has changed for me since than so I maybe you should read my previous answer to your statement about me participating in GA's.



I'm targetting people that tend to be everywhere and are rather active when arriving in a new place, but the moment they get a new spot on an even rarer tracker you can see their activity decline and shift to that new place, until they shift to yet another new tracker.

In the end they are omnipresent, but they stop contributing to all those places they are members.

You're making generalizations based on what charts and graphs? How are you certain of this 'trend'?

We all go through a curve of more activity towards the beginning of our experience in a good new tracker, and steady decline as the novelty wears off. Another factor that needs to be equated is free time and the real world.

Not everyone can surf trackers daily or even weekly, due to work.

As I said I've been around long enough to see it for myself, i don't need charts or graphics backing me up.
And if you don't have time to visit somewhere weekly you shouldn't join :rolleyes:


Leave tracker-chasers alone.
No can do ... :P

[tutipute]

I don't know if its a common phrasing but its quite a common saying where i come from:
"Even the most beautiful girl has some guy who is tired of f*!*%^$ her..."

It definitely doesn't say it all, but it says some. There is a thrill of joining a new place of which you have your share of expectations. Whether these expectations are justified is a different issue. It can either be a new Job, a new Neighborhood, a new GF. At the end of the day, as humans, we all get used to to everything, even if we once thought it was the best, and start looking for new "adventures".

So what makes the difference between one person and another, two (major) things:
1. The path we took to get to the new "location" and the way we wrap things up before we "move".
2. The desire for new experiences, our interests and how long that interest lasts.

Obviously, the 2nd of the two cannot be judged, everyone agree its subjective, there is no right and wrong... I am a strong believer in the path! Though views and interpretations are subjective they are constitute the core part of how we select our friends. Dissing others for their interpretations and views is not something i view in a positive way. Making enemies has never been useful for anyone...

On another note, i've got to know Disme here and from everything i know i can say that we share just about the same views. Whether its good or bad, again, its subjective. Yet, i am glad to have him as a friend.

EDIT:I apologize if my first "quote" sound sexist, i did not intend to insult anyone i just thought it might a good illustration to the point i am trying to make...

[Cabalo]

I don't know if its a common phrasing but its quite a common saying where i come from:
"Even the most beautiful girl has some guy who is tired of f*!*%^$ her..."
:thumbsup: mate, that was the sentence of the day! goes straight into my daily quotes ;)

[The Flying Cow]

That's a quote from the film Hitch I believe.


So now I beg because I participated in a giveaway started by the owner of a private tracker. I don't know but I don't see any harm in that. Not to the tracker, not to FST not to anybody in fact, except maybe you because it ain't the first time you replied to me about it. You were just the Shaman back than. Nothing has changed for me since than so I maybe you should read my previous answer to your statement about me participating in GA's.

I didn't say it was harmful to anyone or anything, did I?

I was merely remarking on your condescending tone towards people who are everywhere on the IRC active so they can get their next invite.

Forms of entering private trackers are varied and as long as you end up there the correct way are all valid.

I was also underlining that participating in a draw like Feeling's doesn't confer with your opining about "getting to know" the tracker people.

I bet if I ask Feeling who you are he won't know.

[KFlint]

I don't know if its a common phrasing but its quite a common saying where i come from:
"Even the most beautiful girl has some guy who is tired of f*!*%^$ her..."

i heard this one on Nip Tuck recently :lol:

[tutipute]

I don't know if its a common phrasing but its quite a common saying where i come from:
"Even the most beautiful girl has some guy who is tired of f*!*%^$ her..."

i heard this one on Nip Tuck recently :lol:
I honestly don't know where it came from but i can definitely tell you i heard back when those guys were still in med. school... :happy: