Warning! Copy Controlled Cds On The Loose

[Jackco]

NEXT TIME YOU BUY A CD, REMEMBER TO ASK:
"Will this CD really play on my equipment?"
Why? Because the record manufacturers are secretly introducing new slightly modified CDs into the shops. Some of these corrupt CDs won't play on computers, PS2 and DVD machines, and others have lower quality sound and won't last as long as normal CDs. Not only that, but the new CDs make it impossible for people to copy CDs onto their computers and make MP3s.

The new CDs might play fine to start with, but underneath, the sounds have been subtly corrupted. Your CD player has to work much harder to play the music correctly, so after a few scratches, you'll have tracks going wrong MUCH SOONER than with normal CDs. In truth, these CDs are not as good quality as normal CDs.

DON'T LET THE MANUFACTURERS GET AWAY WITH THIS. They can only do this if we let them. REFUSE TO BUY A CD that has been altered in this way. They are doing this to try and stop illegal copying, but these CDs cause so many other problems that they should come with big red warning stickers and cost a fraction of the price.

How do I tell? There is no way to tell by looking at the CD itself, but corrupt CDs have already been found in the UK, and the manufacturers plan to release millions of them through all the normal outlets. YOU HAVE TO ASK. If Virgin or HMV or Tower can't give you a straight answer, get a written assurance from them saying that you can have your money back if the CD you're buying turns out to be one of these new subtly corrupted `copy-protected' CDs.

What can I do? If you have a CD which has gone wrong much sooner than you expected, then please TAKE IT BACK. We need to make it clear to the manufacturers that we are not going to let them charge us good money for sub-standard CDs that are in fact less useful than normal CDs. Eventually they hope that all CDs will be like this, and then they can sell us CD players that will make our lives even harder, stopping us doing all the things we'd like to do with our CDs.

Don't believe us? The BBC and the New Scientist have already featured several articles on this, as have some of the newspapers. For more information, check out this web page: http://ukcdr.org/issues/cd/

WHAT THE **** ARE THESE MANUFACTURERS TRYING TO DO?
These actions are part of a very disturbing trend that has started to emerge. It started with region locked DVDs. Next came the DMCA laws in the USA, and the up-coming EUCD laws in Europe, which make it illegal to tell someone else how to play a CD or DVD in a way the manufacturer didn't intend (such as in a different region, or on a computer they don't want you to use). You could go to jail for this. They want to stop the equivalent of multi-region DVD players FOREVER.

In actual fact, a Russian researcher is currently on trial in America for breaking the protection on electronic books. The software he helped to develop allows legitimate owners of eBooks to print them out or put them on another computer. For blind people it is the only way of accessing an eBook.

"But if I bought it, it's mine to do what I want with, isn't it?". Not according to the manufacturers. We are used to buying a CD or a DVD or a book and being able to play it on any CD/DVD player, or to read it on the bus, or lend it to friends, or sell it when we've finished with it. They want to take away all of these rights.

An eBook can't even be used when you upgrade your computer without asking special permission! What would you think if your new CD only worked on one CD player? That's crazy, isn't it? But that's the kind of thing they're trying to do.

WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT THIS PROBLEM?
The first thing is to keep asking questions. As mentioned above, try to get a written assurance from the record shop to say you can have a refund if your new CD turns out to be one of these new subtly modified `copy-protected' CDs. If you've already bought one of the CDs, and no-one told you clearly that it wasn't a full-quality CD, then you may be entitled to a refund by law. Don't let them get away with it!

If you feel strongly about these issues, please consider writing to your MP to show your concern about the situation with CDs and the up-coming EUCD laws. The EUCD (European Copyright Directive) is not law yet, and there is still a chance that it can be fixed. If you'd like more information, check out this web-site: http://ukcdr.org/

NOTE: This leaflet intentionally explains things simply in layman's terms. However, we are not exaggerating! If you want to check all this for yourself and get to understand the technical issues in depth, please follow the links on the web pages.



SAY NO :angry:

[bryanskrantz]

BAH, people can rip the tracks of the CD. metallica's one for example. my bro already ripped the tracks right off the CD

[Gre1]

Originally posted by bryanskrantz@21 September 2003 - 18:48
BAH, people can rip the tracks of the CD. metallica's one for example. my bro already ripped the tracks right off the CD
But if they can't be played in the comp I doubt u can rip them and plus that doesn't matter because noone really buys cd's anyway that's the so called reason the RIAA is trying to stop P2P sharing. Another thing this would be better off in Musicworld.

[bryanskrantz]

the whole CD's encrypted thats how it can't be played from the comp but if you have the right program then it is totally possible. if you can decrypt the Audio_TS and the Video_TS thing that's in there than I'm sure you can be able to play it on the comp. ;)

[internet.news]

you can find several crack tools to unprotect copyright protected cds, e.g.
the celine dion protection.

but the simple way to copy copyright protected cd is to record it on
normal cd player (not pc) from cd to tape. or over AUX on pc indirectly.

hehe...

and they could not stop me....


I will copy copy copy copycopy copy copy copycopy copycopy copy
copy copycopy copycopy copycopy copycopy copycopy copy
copy copycopy copycopy copycopy copy

an listen to music...

no - these are just my feeling...

thks...

[SodiumChloride]

All we need is someone with a good audio recording device and... abracadabra... bypassed copy protection.

[Gre1]

But who buys cd's really? I don't unless it's Eminem

[MagicNakor]

I think you'll find a lot of people still buy CDs. I'm pretty sure many of the older members still buy CDs (please note I'm meaning older chronologically, not registration date of this forum).

:ninja:

[Jibbler]

I still buy CDs. However, despite the ongoing methods of copy protection which are already being used, if it can be burned to disk, then it can be ripped. Any copy protection can be reverse engineered, don't let anyone tell you different.

However, if you are ready to test your skills, go buy the new A Perfect Circle CD, and see if you can copy it. Line In rips (as internet.news suggested) arent really ripping, nor are they even providing a digital copy. To actually crack the copy protection and decode the file from CDDA to mp3 is a challenge that 99% of users won't be able to get around. Don't believe me? Spend $12 and see for yourself. :huh:

[RealitY]

Can you not still just make image files of these CD's anyways...

[Wizzandabe]

I buy some CD's, These are my steps I take,
Go to the shop
Buy a CD
Bring it home
Rip it
Take it back
Say I want a refund, why?
...because I had one for my birthday.


Then thats it. All in the space of 30min. B)

[Barbarossa]

If it's possible to listen to it it's possible to copy it, copy-protection is annoying, but there are ways around it. It's just a case of having the right tools.

One of the ways included a black marker pen I seem to remember!! :lol:

I think the most outrageous thing is that the CD's are sub-standard and will wear out quicker, in which case, the most sensible thing to do is make a backup.

[RealitY]

There are already lawsuits around the world against this...
They will soon have warning labels...

[bryanskrantz]

I really don't think just making an image file is going to work. the only thing it does is it makes an image of what is already on the decrypted CD. perhaps Paddus disk juggler can do it?

[Gre1]

Originally posted by Jibbler@23 September 2003 - 04:03
I still buy CDs. However, despite the ongoing methods of copy protection which are already being used, if it can be burned to disk, then it can be ripped. Any copy protection can be reverse engineered, don't let anyone tell you different.

However, if you are ready to test your skills, go buy the new A Perfect Circle CD, and see if you can copy it. Line In rips (as internet.news suggested) arent really ripping, nor are they even providing a digital copy. To actually crack the copy protection and decode the file from CDDA to mp3 is a challenge that 99% of users won't be able to get around. Don't believe me? Spend $12 and see for yourself. :huh:
True. True.

[JayHova]

Originally posted by Jackco@21 September 2003 - 23:32
[QUOTE]NEXT TIME YOU BUY A CD, REMEMBER TO ASK:
"Will this CD really play on my equipment?"
Why? Because the record manufacturers are secretly introducing new slightly modified CDs into the shops. Some of these corrupt CDs won't play on computers, PS2 and DVD machines, and others have lower quality sound and won't last as long as normal CDs. Not only that, but the new CDs make it impossible for people to copy CDs onto their computers and make MP3s.

The new CDs might play fine to start with, but underneath, the sounds have been subtly corrupted. Your CD player has to work much harder to play the music correctly, so after a few scratches, you'll have tracks going wrong MUCH SOONER than with normal CDs. In truth, these CDs are not as good quality as normal CDs.


If this is really the thing they're planning to do I think even more people will start downloading the music from K-lite and less people will actually by cd's.
Except for those who know how to rip them :lol:

Why don't they just start with lowering the price of cd's?
That will probably do them more good than making lower-quality cd's!

[namzuf9]

Originally posted by Jibbler@23 September 2003 - 09:03
However, if you are ready to test your skills, go buy the new A Perfect Circle CD, and see if you can copy it. Line In rips (as internet.news suggested) arent really ripping, nor are they even providing a digital copy. To actually crack the copy protection and decode the file from CDDA to mp3 is a challenge that 99% of users won't be able to get around. Don't believe me? Spend $12 and see for yourself. :huh:
Spend $12, are you on their payroll or something? :D

In all seriousness though, how many of the "younger generation" actually bother buying CD's when its all avalible for free?
I myself do, knowing the true value of music, although I will d/l an album if I just want 1 or 2 tracks off of it. I also d/l a lot of rarer, older stuff (for example at the moment I&#39;m listening to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly, do you think my local music megastore could get that for me <_< )
Basically having a broadband connection and a knowledge of P2P has not changed my consumer habits but is it just a select few that feel the same.

As much as we hate them, the RIAA and their various conterparts have a right to try to protect their intrests and I dont get pissed off to hear of major record labels trying to add protection to their releases.

Lets put it another way. A website you built from the ground up takes of and gets thousands of hits a day. Someone comes along and copies it word for word and takes away some of your audience. How would you feel?

[fr600]

I think there aren&#39;t any cd that can&#39;t be played on the computer...

[JayHova]

Originally posted by fr600@23 September 2003 - 20:33
I think there aren&#39;t any cd that can&#39;t be played on the computer...
????? :huh:
All the cd&#39;s I got I can play on my comp without a problem on my cd-rom drive

[benn19uk]

There are CD&#39;s that can&#39;t be played on a PC, but that doesnt matter... Just play the Cd in a noraml Cd player, connect the headphone socket to the line-in on your soundcard and record the result... The quality will still be fine (practically perfect if you&#39;ve got optical ins and outs on the equipment) and the time it takes to record is going to be easy to predict... It&#39;ll be whatever the length of the track is...
Now go out, and find me a CD that you can&#39;t turn into MP3&#39;s that way... There aren&#39;t any, cause if they&#39;re were you wouldnt be able to play them anywhere...

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by fr600@23 September 2003 - 16:33
I think there aren&#39;t any cd that can&#39;t be played on the computer...
Let me help explain something I touched on before. These copy protections that are being described are already in effect. This is nothing new. Ill Nino - Confessions, APC-Thirteenth Step, and many more have copy protection. Let me explain how this works.

The format of a CD Player (hardware) has not changed since its inception. The laser must read the disk using the existing software that is already encoded into the machine. Simple enough? Basically, it means there are way of making the disks encrypted or "uncopyable", but these methods do not apply to simple CD players like you would find in your home.

However when a disk of any kind is put into your computer CD player, it is read differently. There is a data track on the disk that the computer streams before playing the music. This data track includes a command line which tells your computer that the disk is copyrighted. Within just a mere second, it can interpret this code, and protect the disk with file encryption software so that it cannot be copied. The "scene rips" that are being spread around the internet, are generally done by sophisticated groups of programers who actually "reverse engineer" the copy protection, decode the data digitally, and create mp3s for you. There are already over a dozen different types of copy protection. With enough time on your hands, you can find programs on the web that will allow you to "crack" the protection, but this makes it extremely difficult for the average user.

Has anyone learned anything here? :)

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by benn19uk@23 September 2003 - 16:55
There are CD&#39;s that can&#39;t be played on a PC, but that doesnt matter... Just play the Cd in a noraml Cd player, connect the headphone socket to the line-in on your soundcard and record the result... The quality will still be fine (practically perfect if you&#39;ve got optical ins and outs on the equipment) and the time it takes to record is going to be easy to predict... It&#39;ll be whatever the length of the track is...
Now go out, and find me a CD that you can&#39;t turn into MP3&#39;s that way...
As I mentioned earlier, this method does work, however you are not getting a digital quality CD rip. This is called a "line in" rip and it degrades the sound quality considerably. You might as well buy an audio tape and make an mp3 from that. :huh:

[butsiethesungo]

well that just ruffles my feathers. this is just another reason for me to not buy cds. anyone know any websites that have f*** the riaa and save kazaa merchandise, like shirts and stickers? :blink: looks like i may have to pull my old save napster shirts out of my closet. hehe. i plan to wear them when we talk about computer piracy in my criminal justice class. :P


the butsie

[Rappy]

i don&#39;t know if this is the same but a while back a copany tried to release copy protected cds and people found that if they take a marker and wrote on the edge of the cd it would copy i don&#39;t know if these are useing the same technology

[Gre1]

They have been releasing these cd&#39;s I just remembered that I think Eminem&#39;s last cd is I should put it in and see.

[RealitY]

Originally posted by bryanskrantz@23 September 2003 - 16:38
I really don&#39;t think just making an image file is going to work. the only thing it does is it makes an image of what is already on the decrypted CD.
Actually it does...
Drawback is a 700mb file...
:blink: :blink:

at the moment I&#39;m listening to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly
What about the Slayer version...

Anyway this old news...
Copyproof - April (http://news.com.com/2100-1027-995200.html)

[Switeck]

I heard about audio CD copy protection over 2 years ago and computer CD copyprotection a couple years before that.

Back in the &#39;early days&#39;, EZ CD creator would crash/burn a coaster of copyprotected games -- but Nero would burn a working copy without even a hint there was a problem...

Jibbler:
"However when a disk of any kind is put into your computer CD player, it is read differently. There is a data track on the disk that the computer streams before playing the music. This data track includes a command line which tells your computer that the disk is copyrighted. Within just a mere second, it can interpret this code, and protect the disk with file encryption software so that it cannot be copied. The "scene rips" that are being spread around the internet, are generally done by sophisticated groups of programers who actually "reverse engineer" the copy protection, decode the data digitally, and create mp3s for you. There are already over a dozen different types of copy protection. With enough time on your hands, you can find programs on the web that will allow you to "crack" the protection, but this makes it extremely difficult for the average user."

I have NEVER heard of a CD copyprotection scheme that works in that method, however that is similar to how DVD CSS works at the DVD drive&#39;s HARDWARE level.

Audio CD &#39;copyprotection&#39; usually consists of adding a data track with some/much unreadable/bad sections to it -- the computer CD-rom/burners try to get track info for all the tracks and have problems while audio cd players which only read audio tracks ignore the data track.

Another method is using the error correction schemes in players against them:
An audio cd player isn&#39;t looking for exact digital data, it just tries to read something and continues on if it encounters an error.
A computer CD-rom/burner on hitting an error tries to get a perfect digital copy and goes back to re-read that data section, even slowing down to 1x speed to do so -- on failure, it MAY continue or may not depending on specific brand-based behavior of error correction.

On PC game CDs there&#39;s even a &#39;stutter&#39; 1-0-1 bit combination that causes computer CD-rom/burners fits to create exact CD duplicates. Pioneer CD burners can do it, but SONY re-engineered (with firmware updates -- which prevent restoring to an older firmware) their older burners so they CAN&#39;T and makes all NEWER burners so they can&#39;t.

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by Switeck@25 September 2003 - 14:44
I have NEVER heard of a CD copyprotection scheme that works in that method, however that is similar to how DVD CSS works at the DVD drive&#39;s HARDWARE level.

Well, you better do some reading. The technology isn&#39;t new, however this article describes the first actual application of it for store bought CDs. Its called "Second Session" CD recording, and it allows a second data track to be written to the disk which only a computer can "see" and "interpret".

Yahoo news article describing new CD pressing technology (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&ncid=711&e=9&u=/usatoday/20030923/tc_usatoday/11865096) :huh: :huh:

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Jibbler+25 September 2003 - 15:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jibbler @ 25 September 2003 - 15:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Switeck@25 September 2003 - 14:44
I have NEVER heard of a CD copyprotection scheme that works in that method, however that is similar to how DVD CSS works at the DVD drive&#39;s HARDWARE level.

Well, you better do some reading. The technology isn&#39;t new, however this article describes the first actual application of it for store bought CDs. Its called "Second Session" CD recording, and it allows a second data track to be written to the disk which only a computer can "see" and "interpret".

Yahoo news article describing new CD pressing technology (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&ncid=711&e=9&u=/usatoday/20030923/tc_usatoday/11865096) :huh: :huh: [/b][/quote]
It doesn&#39;t do this:
"This data track includes a command line which tells your computer that the disk is copyrighted."

There is no &#39;command line&#39; at the CD-rom level or the basic hardware drivers level for CD-roms in Windows.

And in fact it&#39;s the AUDIO CD tracks that were &#39;unreadable&#39; on the PCs, the (main) data track was readable just fine.

Perhaps you&#39;re confusing this with Windows CD autoboot? ...which ANYONE who has any sense disables to prevent this shit.

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by Switeck@25 September 2003 - 16:59
It doesn&#39;t do this:
"This data track includes a command line which tells your computer that the disk is copyrighted."

There is no &#39;command line&#39; at the CD-rom level or the basic hardware drivers level for CD-roms in Windows.

And in fact it&#39;s the AUDIO CD tracks that were &#39;unreadable&#39; on the PCs, the (main) data track was readable just fine.

Perhaps you&#39;re confusing this with Windows CD autoboot? ...which ANYONE who has any sense disables to prevent this shit.
I was paraphrasing, or trying to explain the facts of the article. However, if you read it closely, you would have seen this: In CD players, the disc plays normally. When put into a Macintosh or Windows PC, the disc installs software to keep the music secure, and an interactive menu pops up with several links, including one to copy some or all of the Windows Media tracks to your hard drive.

It can&#39;t get much clearer than that. If you put the disk in, you cannot play it without first installing the software which allows the WMA version of the file to be read. Are you reading the same article that I am? Disabling the "autoboot" won&#39;t allow the disk to be copied. Some sort of command line or code had to be written for the disk to do that. :blink: :blink:

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Jibbler+25 September 2003 - 22:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jibbler &#064; 25 September 2003 - 22:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Switeck@25 September 2003 - 16:59
It doesn&#39;t do this:
"This data track includes a command line which tells your computer that the disk is copyrighted."

There is no &#39;command line&#39; at the CD-rom level or the basic hardware drivers level for CD-roms in Windows.

And in fact it&#39;s the AUDIO CD tracks that were &#39;unreadable&#39; on the PCs, the (main) data track was readable just fine.

Perhaps you&#39;re confusing this with Windows CD autoboot? ...which ANYONE who has any sense disables to prevent this shit.I was paraphrasing, or trying to explain the facts of the article. However, if you read it closely, you would have seen this: In CD players, the disc plays normally. When put into a Macintosh or Windows PC, the disc installs software to keep the music secure, and an interactive menu pops up with several links, including one to copy some or all of the Windows Media tracks to your hard drive.

It can&#39;t get much clearer than that. If you put the disk in, you cannot play it without first installing the software which allows the WMA version of the file to be read. Are you reading the same article that I am? Disabling the "autoboot" won&#39;t allow the disk to be copied. Some sort of command line or code had to be written for the disk to do that. :blink: :blink:[/b][/quote]Yes, that *IS* CD autoboot. And that can be disabled. It&#39;s sort of a &#39;command line&#39; but doesn&#39;t (to my knowledge...) contain more functionality than the ability to load and run 1 file on the CD when the CD is first put in the drive. The autoboot function itself contains nothing about copyrighted/preventing access to the CD. However, the exe (or whatever) file the autoboot tells Windows to launch may contain DRM support to make the WMA files work and/or act just like the &#39;regular&#39; CD copyprotection schemes (like SafeDisc 2).

It&#39;s true that disabling the "autoboot" won&#39;t let the data be copied in the proscribed manner they allow, but if all you&#39;re wanting to grab is the audio tracks then the &#39;protection&#39; method may not work. Also, if you can read the data track which contains the cd autoboot, you can manually launch the autoboot-ed program/s for the same results as you would get if you had autoboot enabled. (...except it&#39;s doing it at your request instead of EVERY time you put that CD in the drive.)

The files may be marked as &#39;protected by DRM&#39;, but the disk itself isn&#39;t. THEY say you cannot play the CD without first installing the software which allows the WMA files to be read, however the audio tracks are probably vulnerable to a bitwise copy attempt -- unless the CD is just covered with bad sectors.

It&#39;s only a matter of finding/using the appropriate existing hacking tool to make the audio tracks extractable -- then it becomes almost a trivial matter to burn them to a new CD.

It could be the case that only a Philips CD burner can read the audio tracks even with appropriate hacking tools due to the CD having many specially-placed bad sectors.

[james_bond_rulez]

Originally posted by Jackco@21 September 2003 - 23:32

NEXT TIME YOU BUY A CD, REMEMBER TO ASK:
"Will this CD really play on my equipment?"
Why? Because the record manufacturers are secretly introducing new slightly modified CDs into the shops. Some of these corrupt CDs won&#39;t play on computers, PS2 and DVD machines, and others have lower quality sound and won&#39;t last as long as normal CDs. Not only that, but the new CDs make it impossible for people to copy CDs onto their computers and make MP3s.

The new CDs might play fine to start with, but underneath, the sounds have been subtly corrupted. Your CD player has to work much harder to play the music correctly, so after a few scratches, you&#39;ll have tracks going wrong MUCH SOONER than with normal CDs. In truth, these CDs are not as good quality as normal CDs.

DON&#39;T LET THE MANUFACTURERS GET AWAY WITH THIS. They can only do this if we let them. REFUSE TO BUY A CD that has been altered in this way. They are doing this to try and stop illegal copying, but these CDs cause so many other problems that they should come with big red warning stickers and cost a fraction of the price.

How do I tell? There is no way to tell by looking at the CD itself, but corrupt CDs have already been found in the UK, and the manufacturers plan to release millions of them through all the normal outlets. YOU HAVE TO ASK. If Virgin or HMV or Tower can&#39;t give you a straight answer, get a written assurance from them saying that you can have your money back if the CD you&#39;re buying turns out to be one of these new subtly corrupted `copy-protected&#39; CDs.

What can I do? If you have a CD which has gone wrong much sooner than you expected, then please TAKE IT BACK. We need to make it clear to the manufacturers that we are not going to let them charge us good money for sub-standard CDs that are in fact less useful than normal CDs. Eventually they hope that all CDs will be like this, and then they can sell us CD players that will make our lives even harder, stopping us doing all the things we&#39;d like to do with our CDs.

Don&#39;t believe us? The BBC and the New Scientist have already featured several articles on this, as have some of the newspapers. For more information, check out this web page: http://ukcdr.org/issues/cd/

WHAT THE **** ARE THESE MANUFACTURERS TRYING TO DO?
These actions are part of a very disturbing trend that has started to emerge. It started with region locked DVDs. Next came the DMCA laws in the USA, and the up-coming EUCD laws in Europe, which make it illegal to tell someone else how to play a CD or DVD in a way the manufacturer didn&#39;t intend (such as in a different region, or on a computer they don&#39;t want you to use). You could go to jail for this. They want to stop the equivalent of multi-region DVD players FOREVER.

In actual fact, a Russian researcher is currently on trial in America for breaking the protection on electronic books. The software he helped to develop allows legitimate owners of eBooks to print them out or put them on another computer. For blind people it is the only way of accessing an eBook.

"But if I bought it, it&#39;s mine to do what I want with, isn&#39;t it?". Not according to the manufacturers. We are used to buying a CD or a DVD or a book and being able to play it on any CD/DVD player, or to read it on the bus, or lend it to friends, or sell it when we&#39;ve finished with it. They want to take away all of these rights.

An eBook can&#39;t even be used when you upgrade your computer without asking special permission&#33; What would you think if your new CD only worked on one CD player? That&#39;s crazy, isn&#39;t it? But that&#39;s the kind of thing they&#39;re trying to do.

WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT THIS PROBLEM?
The first thing is to keep asking questions. As mentioned above, try to get a written assurance from the record shop to say you can have a refund if your new CD turns out to be one of these new subtly modified `copy-protected&#39; CDs. If you&#39;ve already bought one of the CDs, and no-one told you clearly that it wasn&#39;t a full-quality CD, then you may be entitled to a refund by law. Don&#39;t let them get away with it&#33;

If you feel strongly about these issues, please consider writing to your MP to show your concern about the situation with CDs and the up-coming EUCD laws. The EUCD (European Copyright Directive) is not law yet, and there is still a chance that it can be fixed. If you&#39;d like more information, check out this web-site: http://ukcdr.org/

NOTE: This leaflet intentionally explains things simply in layman&#39;s terms. However, we are not exaggerating&#33; If you want to check all this for yourself and get to understand the technical issues in depth, please follow the links on the web pages.



SAY NO :angry:
geez let me think: when was the last time I bought a CD?

oh wait, I only buy blank CD&#39;s

:P

[Jibbler]

Either way Switeck, I see your point now. Though the article wasn&#39;t clear about the WMA files. I wonder what bitrate they are, 128, 192, or less maybe? And another thing... how is a WMA file going to play on an Apple? Its a propritory Windows format. :huh:

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Jibbler@26 September 2003 - 19:36
Either way Switeck, I see your point now. Though the article wasn&#39;t clear about the WMA files. I wonder what bitrate they are, 128, 192, or less maybe? And another thing... how is a WMA file going to play on an Apple? Its a propritory Windows format. :huh:
Apple may have its own proprietary format as well on the CD -- which makes me wonder just how much SPACE is used for the regular audio tracks and if it&#39;s an &#39;overburned&#39; CD which contains more than 703 MB.

If what they&#39;re doing doesn&#39;t piss off the remaining loyal customers, I don&#39;t know what will.

And the serious hackers/crackers/people who just want to listen to the CD in a high-quality format on their computer... they&#39;ll either rip the audio tracks themselves or download them off some p2p program.

[Phoenix_1]

Copy protection is bull, taking the image of a CD and then extracting the information will always work - and we&#39;ll probably not have to even go through that effort to rip &#39;em. When the ripping of CD images came about, all hope for copy protection was lost. End of story.

[Gre1]

I totally agree, but I think they will eventually do something that will be very hard to get by, we will get by but it will be hard.

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Gre1@27 September 2003 - 16:08
I totally agree, but I think they will eventually do something that will be very hard to get by, we will get by but it will be hard.
At that point, hackers and crackers will start doing it not because they like the music/game but because they like the CHALLENGE.

Also, it only takes 1 cracked copy lose on a GOOD p2p network (and unfortunately due to how easy it is to corrupt MP3s/movies/ISOs/EXEs/etc, Kazaa is NOT a good network...) and many people can reap the benefits of 1 person&#39;s hacking efforts.

[Gre1]

Yup, I know.

[bryanskrantz]

aint it great?&#33; hehe.

[Switeck]

See also this follow-up thread:
http://www.klboard.ath.cx/index.php?showtopic=73021

[nikita69]

Ok, if anyone knows for sure the name of the album with such protection, let me know what it is, I&#39;ll buy it today and provide u the HASH to share.

IF THERE IS ZERO THEN THERE IS 1. that simple. :)

btw switeck, that another method of protection being used and the Audio CD is also another.

[RealitY]

MediaMax is a second generation copy-prevention system, and SunnComm claims in the same press release [8] that it "provide[s] playability on any consumer&#39;s playback system without exceptions or limitations." Such perfect compatibility can only be achieved by leaving the standard CD audio portion of the disc unprotected, so MediaMax uses another method to block PC-based copying. Analysis of the Anthony Hamilton album shows that this method is special software loaded from the CD that interferes with copy attempts.

Windows has a feature called "autorun" that automatically starts programs from CDs when they are inserted into the computer. If a MediaMax-protected CD is placed in a PC that has autorun enabled, Windows runs a file called LaunchCD.exe located on the disc. This program provides access to the DRM-controlled encrypted content, but it also loads a special device driver into the system&#39;s memory. On Windows 2000/XP, this driver is called SbcpHid. The LaunchCD.exe program also presents an end user license agreement (EULA). If the user ever clicks Accept to agree to the terms of the license, the MediaMax driver is set to remains active even after the computer is rebooted. The driver examines each CD placed in the machine, and when it recognizes the protected title, it actively interferes with read operations on the audio content. Similar methods are used to protect the tracks on Windows 98/ME and Mac OSX systems.

This behavior can be verified by loading then disabling MediaMax according to the following instructions:

Start with a Windows 2000/XP system with empty CD drives.

Click the Start button and select Control Panel from the Start Menu.
Double-click on the System control panel icon.
Select the Hardware tab and click the Device Manager button.
Configure Device Manager by clicking "Show hidden devices" and "Devices by connection," both from the View menu.
Insert the Anthony Hamilton CD into the computer and allow the SunnComm software to start. If MediaMax has never been started before on the same computer, the SbcpHid driver should appear on the list for the first time. However, on some systems Windows needs to be rebooted before the driver becomes visible.
At this point you can attempt to copy tracks from the CD with applications like MusicMatch Jukebox or Windows Media Player. Copies made while the driver is active will sound badly garbled, as in this 9-second clip [10].

Next, follow these additional steps to disable MediaMax:

Select the SbcpHid driver from the Device Manager list and click "Properties" from the Action Menu.
Click the Driver tab and click the Stop button to disable the driver.
Set the Startup Type to "Disabled" using the dropdown list.

With the driver stopped, you can verify that the same applications copy every track successfully. Setting the Startup Type to disabled prevents MediaMax from restarting when the computer is rebooted. It will remain deactivated until LaunchCD.exe is allowed to run again.
MediaMax&#39;s protections are ineffective because the driver program can easily be disabled or, depending on the system configuration, it might never be installed to begin with. As a result, audio content is vulnerable to copying in nearly all deployed systems. SunnComm&#39;s press release may be technically correct--if their testers always ran the MediaMax application before trying to copy audio, they likely would see protection in every case. However, in practice the software often fails to start, and when it does start, users can manually suppress it. Here are some examples:

Computers running Linux or Mac OS 9 can&#39;t run the MediaMax software at all, so they can always copy the recording.
Many users disable the autorun feature [11] (autostart on Mac OS), so their systems will be able to copy the disc unless the user manually launches MediaMax.
Windows users who haven&#39;t disabled autorun can suspend it when they play a SunnComm-protected disc by holding down the shift key for a few seconds while inserting the CD. They can then copy the data normally. (This won&#39;t work if the driver is active because the user has accepted the SunnComm EULA or because MediaMax ran since the system booted. However, affected users can still copy the disc by manually disabling the driver using a procedure like the one above.)
In all these cases, the audio tracks are left unprotected.

These vulnerabilities will be difficult or impossible to repair. SunnComm&#39;s software can&#39;t take any corrective action if it isn&#39;t started, and all these flaws involve ways that it is prevented from running in the first place. To make matters worse, MediaMax, unlike earlier copy-prevention techniques, works entirely in software. This means a moderately skilled programmer could, in only a few minutes, write an application to watch for and unload the SbcpHid driver, neutralizing MediaMax&#39;s copy resistance while leaving all the disc&#39;s other features intact.

[Hobo King]

YOU DONT GET IT
The whole point is not that we can get by their protections or whatever the hell they use the whole point is that THEY ARE DOING IT AT ALL. If we dont start a montgomery bus boycott kinda thing we cant win against them, there are too many misinformed, ignorant, and afraid people (becuse of major media outlets practically lieing to people about the risks of downloading music) that even if every person that uses kazaa or kl++ (I saw estimates from 4 to 16 million) boycotts cd&#39;s the RIAA while still taking a big ass blow to the nuts still has over 250000000 customers...If we cant inform the people of the RIAA&#39;s scams against us like cd protection and regional dvd crap we are never gonna win... :o :o :o also i thought file sharing wasnt illegal in canada because of the writaable mediums tax...post againt me if im wrong

[Switeck]

Unfortunately, I *DO* get it, but don&#39;t have the health to go out stomping a lot of ground...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/28009.html
music industry to ALL of us: "All CDs will be protected and you are a filthy pirate"

"If you plan to continue protesting about future audio media releases with copy protection, forget it; copy protection is a reality, and within a matter of months more or less all audio media worldwide are copy protected. And this is a good thing for the music industry. In order to make this happen we will do anything within our power - whether you like it or not."

That was about 1 year ago.

Anyone still buying CDs from them is stupid IMO and slowly letting them destroy OUR future and theirs. (By the time these things are in public domain, there will be NO way to access them.)

[wormless]

Originally posted by Gre1@23 September 2003 - 07:12
But who buys cd&#39;s really? I don&#39;t unless it&#39;s Eminem
me if its rem&#33;

[YoRu]

The only real hard copy protection would be a virus (something with bios killing skills) on the audio disc.... ups. i only hope no RIAA member will read this....

[Jackco]

listen to me all you do right is to hold down that shift key before the CD-Copy Protection autoruns.

http://classic.winamp.com/news.jhtml;&#036...articleid=10082 (http://classic.winamp.com/news.jhtml;&#036;sessionid&#036;F3E2PIBONXVJO5YAAAARCZI?articleid=10082)

or get rid of it with a felt tip pen :)

http://www.winamp.com/news.jhtml?articleid=9242

[Jay]

Originally posted by Jackco@13 October 2003 - 00:38
listen to me all you do right is to hold down that shift key before the CD-Copy Protection autoruns.

http://classic.winamp.com/news.jhtml;&#036...articleid=10082 (http://classic.winamp.com/news.jhtml;&#036;sessionid&#036;F3E2PIBONXVJO5YAAAARCZI?articleid=10082)

or get rid of it with a felt tip pen :)

http://www.winamp.com/news.jhtml?articleid=9242
that is so fucking easy :-)

[Monkeee]

Originally posted by Jackco@12 October 2003 - 23:38
or get rid of it with a felt tip pen :)

http://www.winamp.com/news.jhtml?articleid=9242
wait lol so you have to draw on it to lose the protection&#33;?&#33;??&#33; :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Kevin Phoenix]

Geez&#33; Let me just bring this boiling debate to a crashing end&#33; It doesn&#39;t matter what types of measures those companies come up with. No matter how advanced they may be, there will always be hackers out there who will be able to defeat those measures and bring to the p2p networks the songs we enjoy and hope for. The RIAA is just digging their own grave&#33; They say copy protected CDs are here to stay? Well guess what? So is file sharing&#33; PERIOD&#33;

[pearljamricky]

theres always ways around that. I found one bad ass way that will probably always work. Just rip the track through the sound card. It has a higher chance of being fucked up because if theres a scratch and it skips... But thats why i take care of my cds...

[pearljamricky]

or you can always just hook the cd player into the input or microphone jack...

[echidna]

Originally posted by Jibbler+24 September 2003 - 07:16--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jibbler &#064; 24 September 2003 - 07:16)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-benn19uk@23 September 2003 - 16:55
There are CD&#39;s that can&#39;t be played on a PC, but that doesnt matter... Just play the Cd in a noraml Cd player, connect the headphone socket to the line-in on your soundcard and record the result... The quality will still be fine (practically perfect if you&#39;ve got optical ins and outs on the equipment) and the time it takes to record is going to be easy to predict... It&#39;ll be whatever the length of the track is...
Now go out, and find me a CD that you can&#39;t turn into MP3&#39;s that way...
As I mentioned earlier, this method does work, however you are not getting a digital quality CD rip. This is called a "line in" rip and it degrades the sound quality considerably. You might as well buy an audio tape and make an mp3 from that. :huh:[/b][/quote]
If the CD/stereo and sound card your using has optical digital line in/line out then this method of ripping does provide digital quality sound if you&#39;re using the optical digital lines.
Depending upon the equipment used degredation of the signal may be negligable even using analogue RCA lines, and tape is still an intrinsic part of proffesional audio engineering so i take exemption at any slight against it. Nirvanas first album &#39;Bleach&#39; was recorded on a casette tape 8 track and sold more copies that most of us will eat hot dinners.

I had found that ripping with iTunes on mac OSX defeats all of the copy protections i have met, i have though read that new copy controlled CDs are now OSX savvy, so it might not work as well with some new disks.
Lately i have been ripping with gRip (http://nostatic.org/grip/) on linux, apart from acquiring the lame (http://lame.sourceforge.net/) encoder this set up is the best thing since iTunes [i bet none of the record companies will protect CDs for linux anytime soon, if they even could]. It is included with most of the distributions of linux these days but you need to find encoders if you want to use mp3 [ogg vorbis (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/) encoders are included just not mp3]
It may seem extreme to install a second OS in order to rip CDs but It&#39;s free
It works without having to second guess the record companies or micro&#036;oft
It is better than any windows ripping app i&#39;ve ever seen, both in the simplicity of initial use and the depth of tweeking that you can utilise
So if you could be bothered i&#39;d highly recomend trying gRip (http://nostatic.org/grip/), i&#39;m glad i did.

[Adster]

this will never happen they can easier be sued

[echidna]

Originally posted by Adster@19 October 2003 - 17:52
this will never happen they can easier be sued
what? :blink:

[DarkReality]

Originally posted by Jibbler@23 September 2003 - 09:03
However, if you are ready to test your skills, go buy the new A Perfect Circle CD, and see if you can copy it. Line In rips (as internet.news suggested) arent really ripping, nor are they even providing a digital copy. To actually crack the copy protection and decode the file from CDDA to mp3 is a challenge that 99% of users won&#39;t be able to get around. Don&#39;t believe me? Spend &#036;12 and see for yourself. :huh:
Mine ripped fine using CDex. I hadn&#39;t listened to the mp3s yet because I really don&#39;t like the new APC. But I just opened "Weak and Powerless" in Winamp and the sound is impeccable. 192kb mp3. A little more oomph than 128kb mp3. ;)

Mer de Noms, however (APC&#39;s first album) is one of the best rock albums ever made, in my opinion.

[j4y3m]

All Had To Do Was Press Shift? :lol:

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by DarkReality+21 October 2003 - 05:34--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DarkReality @ 21 October 2003 - 05:34)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jibbler@23 September 2003 - 09:03
However, if you are ready to test your skills, go buy the new A Perfect Circle CD, and see if you can copy it.&nbsp; Line In rips (as internet.news suggested) arent really ripping, nor are they even providing a digital copy.&nbsp; To actually crack the copy protection and decode the file from CDDA to mp3 is a challenge that 99% of users won&#39;t be able to get around.&nbsp; Don&#39;t believe me?&nbsp; Spend &#036;12 and see for yourself. :huh:
Mine ripped fine using CDex. I hadn&#39;t listened to the mp3s yet because I really don&#39;t like the new APC. But I just opened "Weak and Powerless" in Winamp and the sound is impeccable. 192kb mp3. A little more oomph than 128kb mp3. ;)
[/b][/quote]
Describe your setup. I&#39;m interested in how you did it. :blink:

[Auburn_Tygaz]

Haven&#39;t bought I CD in since 2K. If I don&#39;t feel like d/l an entire I album I get the CD from someone I know who has it. I&#39;ll run Music Match Jukebox Plus, if I get paranoid that the CD will use MMJB in an attempt to notify the record company when I&#39;m ripping & obtaining the track listing, I simply d/c myself from the web, or if I wanna stay on, I just use my firewall to grant or deny the programs access to the web...same thing with Nero if I&#39;m ripping a VG, DVD, or software proggie. You get a cd that doesn&#39;t wanna cooperate, just get a handy-dandy Sharpie or felt tip. To this day, I&#39;ve NEVER had a problem getting the music, VG, etc. that I want. Simple as that, & hopefully my defiance can continue B)

[Brenya]

I buy some CD's, These are my steps I take,
Go to the shop
Buy a CD
Bring it home
Rip it
Take it back
Say I want a refund, why?
...because I had one for my birthday.Then thats it. All in the space of 30min. B)
Nice strategy. But that excuse is not full-proof. You can only say that if it's around your birthday. They could ask for your name and birthday..


Also, the store that sells the CD might be conscious of the fact that you can burn them onto your computer and hesitate in giving you a full refund in cash.
They will probably give you store credit, which I guess is alright at places like Walmart..


Originally posted by Jibbler@23 September 2003 - 04:03
However, if you are ready to test your skills, go buy the new A Perfect Circle CD, and see if you can copy it. A Perfect Circle rocks. FTW! :w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t:

This is my 69th post!:yup: :w00t::yahoo::thumbsup::clap::tease::hooray::king: