Does tracker list whether a peer is seed/leech?

[NYTReader]

When a peer contacts a tracker to get a subset of the peers in the swarm, my understanding is that the tracker basically just returns a list of IP addresses (according to http://wiki.theory.org/BitTorrentSpecification#Tracker_Response).

Is it possible to get the tracker to also tell me whether each of those peers is a seed or leech? My understanding the seed/leech status is only learned from direct contact with another peer, but was wondering if it could also be learned from the tracker.

[stoi]

Not sure exactly what you mean, so i may sound like a complete noob here.

but surely the tracker already does this, because we have seeders and leechers, if your client sends a complete announce to the tracker, you move from the leechers list to the seeders list.

[RedRansom]

Tracker can see your client ip adress if that what you mean...

[tutipute]

stoi and RedRansom I think you both got the question wrong... :)

From what i know, you are right! The result does not contain any annotation whether each peer is a seeder or a leecher, it only contains information on how to establish a connection with the peer (i.e: ip, peer id, port).

Whether it is possible or not, yes, it is possible to modify the tracker's response (That's the easy part...) but you will need to make sure that the client will know how to read the modified result. Basically it means that standard clients will (probably) not be able to send requests to your tracker and receive responses from your tracker since standard clients only support the standard BT protocol...

If you want to design your own security and validation mechanisms then it is possible but you will have to have your own client, mod or plug-in to support it on the other hand...

I hope that helps!

[Col. Skillz]

well on some sites you can see the seeds/leechers, their speed, their username, total upd, total dl'd

so im sure they can, if thats what you mean

[stoi]

i am still confused lol

The client sends a complete announce to the tracker, it also sends a stop announce to the tracker when you stop the torrent, that is why if you just close your client, or a PC crash, the tracker still sees you as seeding for ever if the tracker does not auto flush your username.

If it never had the complete announce, the tracker would just see everyone as a big list of peers.

the tracker sends you a list of peers to connect to, the client sends % done, complete or not, speed ul/dl, (or at least how much you have done since the last announce), so the tracker then works out the speed, and whether you stopped the torrent or not.

[tutipute]

i am still confused lol

The client sends a complete announce to the tracker, it also sends a stop announce to the tracker when you stop the torrent, that is why if you just close your client, or a PC crash, the tracker still sees you as seeding for ever if the tracker does not auto flush your username.

If it never had the complete announce, the tracker would just see everyone as a big list of peers.

the tracker sends you a list of peers to connect to, the client sends % done, complete or not, speed ul/dl, (or at least how much you have done since the last announce), so the tracker then works out the speed, and whether you stopped the torrent or not.
This is not about what the tracker can tell about a peer (which is what you are referring to...) but about what a peer can know about other peers from the tracker's response... A peer "learns" about other peers from the tracker's response and he was wondering whether this response already includes the information (seeder/leecher) regarding other peers and whether the response can be enhanced in case it doesn't. :happy:

[stoi]

but in his client he will have seeds and leechers, so how does it matter which way its done, its done one way or the other and he has that already.

that is what is confusing me, its done already.

[tutipute]

but in his client he will have seeds and leechers, so how does it matter which way its done, its done one way or the other and he has that already.

that is what is confusing me, its done already.
Well, i don't know what exactly he wants to do... But you definitely have a point! :P

There are two things i can think off the top of my head:

1. As a peer, it might give you a "head start". True that you have the information already but it is retrieved from other peers and not directly from the tracker.

2. You might want to cross check information that was reported to the tracker and information that a client can obtain as a peer. This can help you to detect ratio cheaters, in case you want to, but you will have to modify the client quite intensively...

NYTReader, do you want to help me out here? ;)

[yayyyyyy]

When a peer contacts a tracker to get a subset of the peers in the swarm, my understanding is that the tracker basically just returns a list of IP addresses (according to http://wiki.theory.org/BitTorrentSpecification#Tracker_Response).

Is it possible to get the tracker to also tell me whether each of those peers is a seed or leech? My understanding the seed/leech status is only learned from direct contact with another peer, but was wondering if it could also be learned from the tracker.

NO, you have to contact the client to know if it's a leecher or a seeder!
(entraptment?)


what's the point with such a question? if you work for things like baytsp, mediasentry and so on I'll give you an additional hint:
even if you knew that a certain IP was a seeder while doing the handshake you might find out it's actually a leecher... that's called SUPERSEEDING.

have fun hunting ppl :)

@tutipute he is OBVIOULSY making a research paper..
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-file-sharing-8/t-non-english-release-sites-like-vcdquality-releaselog-310475#post2949650
yeah sure....

help him poor kid :)

[RedRansom]

Then he want to know if he can get peers ip adress without connecting to tracker?
I think this is impossible for private trackers cuz all torrents creating by uploaders which checking "private torrent" option at their client than this makes this file only for the tracker member than this makes DHT pointless but for public tracker DHT is optional and usually on but still you need to connect to tracker by your client and i want to say if someone could have ip adress without connect to tracker this cant imaginable and this will damage the private torrenting and bittorrent wold ;)

[tutipute]

When a peer contacts a tracker to get a subset of the peers in the swarm, my understanding is that the tracker basically just returns a list of IP addresses (according to http://wiki.theory.org/BitTorrentSpecification#Tracker_Response).

Is it possible to get the tracker to also tell me whether each of those peers is a seed or leech? My understanding the seed/leech status is only learned from direct contact with another peer, but was wondering if it could also be learned from the tracker.
... have fun hunting ppl :)

@tutipute he is OBVIOULSY making a research paper..
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-file-sharing-8/t-non-english-release-sites-like-vcdquality-releaselog-310475#post2949650
yeah sure....

help him poor kid :)
LOL! Shoot him a b***e invite then...:P

[NYTReader]

Hi everyone:

Thanks for the quick replies (I forgot how quick this board is so sorry for taking a few hours to get back!).

First let me say no way am I working for an interdiction or monitoring company hired by any content owner. I am just trying to understand the BT protocol a bit better for some of my own research.

Sorry my original posting was a bit cryptic. I am not interested in coding up a new tracker but rather want to know if there was a way as a peer to get the tracker to let me know leech/seed status of the IP's I am given. I think the consensus is that there is not.

Just out of curiosity does anyone know why this is so? The added overhead would be pretty small (an extra bit I imagine). I doubt this was for legal reasons given the history of BT (plus I think it does not matter whether you are seed/leech: as long as you are allowing others to upload from you, the content guys will go after you, at least here in the US).

Thanks again for all of the responses.

[tutipute]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know why this is so? The added overhead would be pretty small (an extra bit I imagine).
There many questions that can be asked regarding the BT protocol. Many software developers have already altered the protocol to fit far more complex sharing/community based Software. Yet, the question that should be asked is why are you so into this specific feature? ;)

[yayyyyyy]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know why this is so? The added overhead would be pretty small (an extra bit I imagine). I doubt this was for legal reasons given the history of BT (plus I think it does not matter whether you are seed/leech: as long as you are allowing others to upload from you, the content guys will go after you, at least here in the US).

Thanks again for all of the responses.

when you DEVELOP something the question you have to ask yourself is: "is this thing usefull?"

if all the developers would live with the question: "why isn't this thing usefull? we would have a shitload of UNFINISHED PROJECTS loaded with tons of crap that nobody will ever use...

how would be torrent protocol benefit from such an information??? what's the point???
Trackers are there only to let you know that someone is involved in a certain torrent hash, all the rest MUST and IS DONE client side... I see no benefit at all having such an additional information coming from the tracker...

btw, most current tracker implementations can be "exploited" in a way opposite to what I think you want to do (I'm still convinced you are involved into antipiracy and all that crap):
if you report yourself as a seeder (complete flag sent) to the tracker, the tracker WILL NOT give you ip addresses of other seeders... you will get only leechers ips...

on very small swarms you can do 2 announces:
first one as seeder, second one as peer... then compare the resulting ips.... and you are done... the ones missing in the second announce are seeders :)

but that works only on very little swarms (20 total peers?) and might still be incorrect if some client is "not connectable" as those will be never reported to you ;)

happy hunting :)

[NYTReader]

Thanks again for the replies. I understand the point about not wanting to burden the tracker; that makes sense.

And my apologies again if my posts are on a suspicious topic: it really is just academic curiosity on my end.

[tutipute]

Thanks again for the replies. I understand the point about not wanting to burden the tracker; that makes sense.

And my apologies again if my posts are on a suspicious topic: it really is just academic curiosity on my end.
Well, we are all waiting for the research link once its done... ;)
http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/042406/inside-the-riaa.gif

[NYTReader]

Funny: I like the older one too,
http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/02/communism.jpg

[yayyyyyy]

And my apologies again if my posts are on a suspicious topic: it really is just academic curiosity on my end.

wish to see such research result published here... it's passed a year since you started researching about the timing needed to get a dubbed release published, gotta be a very big research :lol: