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human_pet
09-26-2003, 11:58 AM
My beleif in Him is that He is one,that he is the Most merciful AND Just,He has power of everthing,what He does is by His will,He is/was not begotten nor had He beget,He neither slumbers nor can He tires,He is eternal ,He is the first and the Last,overall he is Perfect:)

Oh yeah,my religion is Islam,so that makes me a muslim;)

Peace/Salam,may God give us guidance forever

Billy_Dean
09-26-2003, 12:37 PM
So what are you doing stealing files on a P2P network? Does your god know and approve of it?


:)

human_pet
09-26-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Billy_Dean@26 September 2003 - 12:37
So what are you doing stealing files on a P2P network?  Does your god know and approve of it?


:)
I did'nt say i was a sinless man :P And i don't think God whould aprove of it,duh of couse He knows :rolleyes: anyways,I don't think of it as stealing,i like to think of it more as sharing files,

Billy_Dean
09-27-2003, 11:27 AM
That sounds like a cool god, what other crimes does he let you commit?


:)

human_pet
09-27-2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Billy_Dean@27 September 2003 - 11:27
That sounds like a cool god, what other crimes does he let you commit?


:)
He said in the Koran"We will not change a nation unless they change themselve",You see God gives us freewill as a test,I don't think i've done very good at that test though,oh yeah btw this freewill is only to an extent,He willed that mankind has freewill unlike most of His creations,that's why we are the Khalifa/Leader on Earth as stated in the Koran"And We will create Khalifa(man/human) on Earth"

Oh yeah,there's sound hadith "Mankind are sinners and the best of the sinnners are those who repent"

Billy_Dean
09-27-2003, 12:36 PM
I'm sorry, I'm trying to think of something serious to say here, but I can't. maybe I'll just leave it alone.


:)

human_pet
09-27-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Billy_Dean@27 September 2003 - 12:36
I'm sorry, I'm trying to think of something serious to say here, but I can't. maybe I'll just leave it alone.


:)
Oh,ok feel free to post when you're serius...

BILLY-THE-FISH
09-27-2003, 01:56 PM
GOD lives in my Pants!!!!!
:lol: :D :lol:

ilw
09-27-2003, 03:34 PM
lol i like the way god follows the rules we make up ourselves, I don't remember a bit in the bible which says
thou shalt not infringe on copyright
just cos its against the law doesn't mean that its against god's law.

J'Pol
09-27-2003, 10:05 PM
ilw

It has been explained to me as a matter for one's own conscience, many years ago and in relation to everything, not just file sharing.

If you look honestly at your conscience and consider what you are doing and can honestly say that you do not believe it is stealing, then it is not. However if you honestly think that it is stealing and you continue to do it then you are stealing the files.

This is obviously an ethical argument as opposed to a legal one. The issue of mens rea is important in the legal argument, but is different from this one. Mens rea is knowing that the thing you are doing is against the law (it is not a consideration on whether you think it should be or not).

razorsharp013
09-27-2003, 10:29 PM
Raised as a Catholic, went to Catholic school for 10 years and to church on Sundays. Since, (12 years later), I've grown to out-grow it in a way and frankly am very irritated with what all religion, especially Christianity has become. Modern Christianity today is nothing more than a t-shirt, a bumper sticker or Jesus fish on the back of a car. A justification for murder, or a good reason to say I'm better than you because....... It's disgusting really. While I still and likely always will believe in God, it's more of a personal spirituality. I don't care to give a deity a name or trait, sex or race. I think that one thing that most modern societies and sciences have failed to realize is that faith - not necessarily religion - has always been the one true constant in the course of our history as a society of people. Whether it be ancient Egyptians, Romans, Muslims or whatever, faith in something greater than what we know and are has always been there. It has to be, as humans we need to believe that there is someone who can has some sort of control of our lives when we do not, to be a supreme judge of all men so that we may justify our life choices and condemn those of others. That this life isn't all there is and all of our pain and suffereing along the journey shall be rewarded at the end.
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

ilw
09-27-2003, 10:41 PM
I'm not sure exactly what you're sayingJP, are you saying that to a certain extent you will be judged by the man upstairs based on your conscience, or just pointing out the fact i was hiding, what my conscience tells me is a minor crime, behind legal terms? :huh:
I was just pointing out that Billy's thinking that god would agree with the western legal system was an assumption, perhaps god has a very different take on file sharing, perhaps he disagrees with the whole idea of information/data being worth something.

As an agnostic and strongly suspecting that there is no god, I couldn't give a monkeys really, I'm far more worried about getting kicked off the uni network for using too much bandwidth :ph34r:

Edit: typo

SodiumChloride
09-27-2003, 10:50 PM
Learned this in Humanities class...

Gods were created based on, of all things, the weather of the region. If the weather was good, the god of the people was an optimistic god, like the gods of Egypt. The Nile regularly flooded and gave people good farmland, and the weather was generally calm. The Egyptian gods were nice gods, and no one was sent to "hell" or anything.

Egypt is by the equator, so its seasons were mild compared to the Mesopotamian seasons.

The hebrew god is a pessimistic god. The hebrews came from mesopotamia, where there was a giant flood that wiped out whole cities (Noah's ark) and weather was unpredictable and wild. Therefore the Jews imagined that their god was pessimistic and must be obeyed or else terrible things will happen!!

When the Egyptians did their worship, good things continued to happen, but when mesopotamians worshipped their gods, most of the time good things happened but sometimes terrible things happened, because of the harsher seasons. That's how religions were created :)

SodiumChloride
09-27-2003, 10:57 PM
If you look at the Jewish god, he's always punishing people for doing the damndest of things. Look at the story of Job. He got all his things taken away from him, including his family, because satan challenged God to do it. Job was a good, faithful man who got screwed by God because he was a human being and all human beings have some sin in them.

Also, god says that if someone screws up, their children up to 4 generations will suffer. What kind of an asshole god punishes the CHILDREN of the person who sinned? If my great great grandfather killed someone, I get to be punished.

This is indicative of the fact that the hebrew god is a pessimistic god... (scroll up)

edit: religion is a crock of shit, but God, if there is a god, is good.

J'Pol
09-27-2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by ilw@27 September 2003 - 23:41
I'm not sure exactly what you're sayingJP, are you saying that to a certain extent you will be judged by the man upstairs based on your conscience, or just pointing out the fact i was hiding, what my conscience tells me is a minor crime, behind legal terms? :huh: 
I was just pointing out that Billy's thinking that god would agree with the western legal system was an assumption, perhaps god has a very different take on file sharing, perhaps he disagrees with the whole idea of information/data being worth something.

As an agnostic and strongly suspecting that there is no god, I couldn't give a monkeys really, I'm far more worried about getting kicked off the uni network for using too much bandwidth :ph34r:

Edit: typo
If you took my post in any way as a pop at you my apologies, it was not my intention.

What I am saying is that to a large extent one is judged by God (accepting your agnosticism) on the basis of your conscience. If you genuinely believe after having examined your conscience that file sharing is not stealing, then it is not. If however you believe that it is wrong and continue to do it, then you are stealing.

I merely mentioned the law thing to ensure that I was not giving the impression that the law viewed things in the same way. In order to commit a lot of crimes you must have mens rea (see above) however that is not a personal, ethical judgment. It is simply knowing that your actions are against the law, whether you believe it is a just law or not.

So it is perfectly possible to break the law (copyright violation for example) without that being ethically wrong.

hobbes
09-27-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by SodiumChloride@27 September 2003 - 23:57

edit: religion is a crock of shit, but God, if there is a god, is good.
On what do you base this observation? Life is hard even for those who are successful. Why would a "good" God create such misery for the majority?

Even if you feel like bailing out and saying that we bring misery upon ourselves, what evidence is there that he is good. I would say that God created this Earth and humans to watch us like some pathetic Soap Opera. After all, what else does he has to do?

SodiumChloride
09-27-2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@27 September 2003 - 16:18
I would say that God created this Earth and humans to watch us like some pathetic Soap Opera. After all, what else does he has to do?
If god lives forever, that must be pretty boring, so he has to do something to keep entertained :D

What i meant by saying religion is bad is that the people who believe in something with enough vigor tend to look down upon those who do not believe. Fundimentalists especially distrust other religions, and they respond with violence.

If god created everything, shouldn't it be okay for people to just worship whatever they choose? Like the sun? George Carlin does that, and he's a funny guy B)

J'Pol
09-27-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by SodiumChloride+28 September 2003 - 00:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SodiumChloride @ 28 September 2003 - 00:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@27 September 2003 - 16:18
I would say that God created this Earth and humans to watch us like some pathetic Soap Opera.&nbsp; After all, what else does he has to do?
If god lives forever, that must be pretty boring, so he has to do something to keep entertained :D

What i meant by saying religion is bad is that the people who believe in something with enough vigor tend to look down upon those who do not believe. Fundimentalists especially distrust other religions, and they respond with violence.

If god created everything, shouldn&#39;t it be okay for people to just worship whatever they choose? Like the sun? George Carlin does that, and he&#39;s a funny guy B) [/b][/quote]
Theology from a chemistry student, that&#39;s all we need.

hobbes
09-27-2003, 11:31 PM
File sharing is wrong, no matter how you justify it.

If I spend 300 million to create a movie, people should not be allowed to transfer a single copy freely amongst each other and leave me without recompensation.

If I am an independent adventure game company who releases a terrific game, why should people be able to play it for free as I file for bankrupcy?

What we are doing is morally and legally wrong, let us drop the pretense. Lie to yourselves if you can, but I cannot.

I find the convenience and variety of files available to be too good to pass up. P2P or any sort of internet distribution is the inevitable future and companies should learn to work with it rather than disrupt it.

Just like Blockbuster is allowed to rent any movie from any studio, similar franchises should be allowed online so that we can continue with the convenience and also reward those who have made the effort to create something enjoyable.

I will gladly switch over to a legit pay service, but at the moment this entity does not exist, and I continue to live in sin.

hobbes
09-27-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by hobbes+28 September 2003 - 00:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes &#064; 28 September 2003 - 00:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-SodiumChloride@27 September 2003 - 23:57

but God, if there is a god, is good.
On what do you base this observation? Life is hard even for those who are successful. Why would a "good" God create such misery for the majority?

Even if you feel like bailing out and saying that we bring misery upon ourselves, what evidence is there that he is good. I would say that God created this Earth and humans to watch us like some pathetic Soap Opera. After all, what else does he has to do?[/b][/quote]
Sorry NaCl,

Let me refine your quote some more.

What evidence is there that he is "good"? Just as likely, he is an indifferent creator.

J'Pol
09-27-2003, 11:37 PM
I apologise in advance for this :

Recompensation - is that a word.

Can a company file for bankruptcy, I thought that was an individual.

However I am from the UK so words may mean different things to you than they do to me..

Seriously tho&#39; I agree that file sharing is legally wrong, that is an absolute and not open to debate. However I remain of the opinion that the ethical issue is not as black and white as you paint it.

SodiumChloride
09-27-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@27 September 2003 - 16:34
Sorry NaCl,

Let me refine your quote some more.

What evidence is there that he is "good"? Just as likely, he is an indifferent creator.
Well, I am agnostic so i was just playing around with Godly philosophy.

But I DO believe that if there is a God, we should choose our own way of worshipping it, because the curent ways of worship have been distorted by translating bibles into different languages and by hidden agendas of ancient priests.

And JPaul, yes I am a chem student, and I believe that the holy trinity is the proton, the neutron, and the electron :D If God exists, then atoms are the essense of god&#39;s creative powers, and the sub-subatomic particles (muons, gluons, quarks, whatever) are the god&#39;s true laws manifested into physical reality.

human_pet
09-28-2003, 12:03 AM
Anyone here a jew?I&#39;d like to hear your opinion,and btw christianity is not the only religion,if christianity is not right for you then go search for another religion lah,If religion is bull and if you&#39;re saying that one only must have faith in God,are you saying that God sent us down without any guidance?And then He punishes us for what we don&#39;t know,if that is true ,then God does&#39;nt sound Just now does He?For that can&#39;t be true as God is Perfect in All ways

Peace :) May We find Him in our hearts

SodiumChloride
09-28-2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by human_pet@27 September 2003 - 17:03
If religion is bull and if you&#39;re saying that one only must have faith in God,are you saying that God sent us down without any guidance?
Of course we have guidance. The wisdom lies in the religious texts. However, leaders sometimes bend the rules and make it sound like God is on their side (muslim extremists, fundamentalists, etc...). The religious texts are ONLY a source of wisdom. A set of rules to follow to lead a good and healthy life.

Why can&#39;t the jews eat pork? Because when the bible was concieved, the methods of preservation were almost nil. Sure, they put salt on the meat, but they didnt have refrigeration or modern preservatives, and they didnt know how hot to cook the meat to kill all the bad stuff. Therefore "god" told the people not to eat pork. Nowadays pork is much safer, but it still can be deadly if not prepared right (in 3rd world countries for example). Jews not being allowed to eat pork is in the bible because abstaining from pork consumption was good wisdom back then.

hobbes
09-28-2003, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by JPaul@28 September 2003 - 00:37
I apologise in advance for this :

Recompensation - is that a word.

Can a company file for bankruptcy, I thought that was an individual.

However I am from the UK so words may mean different things to you than they do to me..

Seriously tho&#39;* I agree that file sharing is legally wrong, that is an absolute and not open to debate. However I remain of the opinion that the ethical issue is not as black and white as you paint it.
Tactics, JP? God doesn&#39;t like tactics.

Why are you entitled to movies, music, and games at no expense while those who create them, in hopes of making a living, get no compensation.

Hard work without compensation, leads to decompensation (see definition 2 below), for which the treatment is recompensation- was that too difficult?

Back on track, I think it IS that simple.

ilw
09-28-2003, 01:38 AM
you know recompensation and decompensation are both words :blink:

decompensation.

Medicine. Failure of the heart to maintain adequate blood circulation, marked by labored breathing, engorged blood vessels, and edema.
Psychology. The inability to maintain defense mechanisms in response to stress, resulting in personality disturbance or psychological imbalance.


recompensation

1. Recompense. [Obs.]
2. (Scots Law) Used to denote a case where a set-off pleaded by the defendant is met by a set-off pleaded by the plaintiff.


JPaul I can&#39;t believe you missed the scottish law one :rolleyes:

bigboab
09-28-2003, 01:45 AM
I dont think he will reply ILW if you have proved him in error&#33; I&#39;m Just trying to start something. :P

hobbes
09-28-2003, 08:56 AM
@ Human Pet,

Although I do not believe in your religion, I think your posts indicate that a true person of Islam is about peace and love, which is all we can hope for any individual.

I am an agnostic.

J'Pol
09-28-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by bigboab@28 September 2003 - 02:45
I dont think he will reply ILW if you have proved him in error&#33; I&#39;m Just trying to start something. :P
What error old bean, I merely asked if recompensation was a word. The chap has pointed out that recompense is a word, so it seems to follow naturaly that recompensation would also be one. My knowledge of the language is not sufficiently developed to confirm the position either way, however for the purposes of the discussion it is easier to just accept it and move on. Some people tchh.

Hobbes - an agnostic. I had you marked down as an atheist, flippin heck it shows just how little we know each other.

human_pet
09-28-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@28 September 2003 - 08:56
@ Human Pet,

Although I do not believe in your religion, I think your posts indicate that a true person of Islam is about peace and love, which is all we can hope for any individual.

I am an agnostic.
and justice too,one can&#39;t have peace without justice ;) btw still waiting for a jew to reply here want to know about their religion from their point of view...

Salam/peace :)

bigboab
09-28-2003, 02:33 PM
Lets put Hobbes(with his permission) in the middle JP and call him a freethinker like myself.

Mr. Mulder
09-28-2003, 02:41 PM
I don&#39;t believe in any kind of God or Religion, I think the whole idea of an all knowing creator of life is absolutely ridiculous :huh:

thewizeard
09-28-2003, 02:44 PM
On a slightly lighter note, for those who are not sure Check your religion... (http://www.emode.com/tests/religion/authorize/signin.jsp?url=/tests/religion/index.jsp)

bigboab
09-28-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by __eric__@28 September 2003 - 14:41
I don&#39;t believe in any kind of God or Religion, I think the whole idea of an all knowing creator of life is absolutely ridiculous :huh:
[QUOTE]

There are a few creators of life(parents) in this Forum. Yes and one or two of them think that they are all knowing. So I think you better reconsider your views. :)

Snee
09-28-2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by __eric__@28 September 2003 - 15:41
I don&#39;t believe in any kind of God or Religion, I think the whole idea of an all knowing creator of life is absolutely ridiculous :huh:
I&#39;m an agnostic and all, so the best I could do is to supply a couple of theories on the existence or unexistence of a deity.

however, to say that the idea of a knowing god is ridiculous, is only proof that your mind is as rigid on this question as those who would claim that there is a god purely based on belief :P

We can&#39;t know right now.

Edit: I spelled "god" wrong&#33; :lol:

bigboab
09-28-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by SnnY+28 September 2003 - 14:51--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SnnY &#064; 28 September 2003 - 14:51)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-__eric__@28 September 2003 - 15:41
I don&#39;t believe in any kind of God or Religion, I think the whole idea of an all knowing creator of life is absolutely ridiculous :huh:
I&#39;m an agnostic and all, so the best I could do is to supply a couple of theories on the existence or unexistence of a deity.

however, to say that the idea of a knowing god is ridiculous, is only proof that your mind is as rigid on this question as those who would claim that there is a god purely based on belief :P

We can&#39;t know right now.

Edit: I spelled "god" wrong&#33; :lol:[/b][/quote]
[QUOTE]


It was originally good anyway. If that was the spelling mistake you made I am going to start charging psychic consulting fees. :rolleyes:

lynx
09-28-2003, 03:04 PM
I think the best quote I heard was something along the lines:

"So God created the Universe, Sun, Earth, Man etc? Why? Was he bored?"

Mr. Mulder
09-28-2003, 03:18 PM
If God&#39;s so smart, How come he only made one Britney Spears :lol: :lol: :lol:

thewizeard
09-28-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by __eric__@28 September 2003 - 16:18
If God&#39;s so smart, How come he only made one Britney Spears :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thinking along your lines then I have to point out that everyone makes mistakes...after all he created you as well....

Snee
09-28-2003, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by bigboab+28 September 2003 - 15:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bigboab @ 28 September 2003 - 15:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by SnnY@28 September 2003 - 14:51
<!--QuoteBegin-__eric__@28 September 2003 - 15:41
I don&#39;t believe in any kind of God or Religion, I think the whole idea of an all knowing creator of life is absolutely ridiculous :huh:
I&#39;m an agnostic and all, so the best I could do is to supply a couple of theories on the existence or unexistence of a deity.

however, to say that the idea of a knowing god is ridiculous, is only proof that your mind is as rigid on this question as those who would claim that there is a god purely based on belief :P

We can&#39;t know right now.

Edit: I spelled "god" wrong&#33; :lol:




It was originally good anyway. If that was the spelling mistake you made I am going to start charging psychic consulting fees. :rolleyes: [/b]
start charging :P , it wasn&#39;t what I intended and thus I saw it as spelled wrong

J'Pol
09-28-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by nigel123@28 September 2003 - 15:44
On a slightly lighter note, for those who are not sure Check your religion... (http://www.emode.com/tests/religion/authorize/signin.jsp?url=/tests/religion/index.jsp)
There are three adverts down the left hand side of the page. All promoting Judaism, one wonders if there is an agenda - is the test entirely objective.

Snee
09-28-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by JPaul+28 September 2003 - 17:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JPaul @ 28 September 2003 - 17:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nigel123@28 September 2003 - 15:44
On a slightly lighter note, for those who are not sure&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Check your religion... (http://www.emode.com/tests/religion/authorize/signin.jsp?url=/tests/religion/index.jsp)
There are three adverts down the left hand side of the page. All promoting Judaism, one wonders if there is an agenda - is the test entirely objective. [/b][/quote]
As ratfaced has informed me, judaism is one of few religions not looking to convert you.

So I don&#39;t think that&#39;s what they are after anyhow if that is the case.

thewizeard
09-28-2003, 04:10 PM
I just clicked twice on it and every time the adds change. Only one about Judaism for me&#33;

edit: ...Humm, I clicked again..and now there are two.

Mr. Mulder
09-28-2003, 04:10 PM
Thinking along your lines then I have to point out that everyone makes mistakes...after all he created you as well....


Saucer of milk, table two :)

Billy_Dean
09-28-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by JPaul+29 September 2003 - 01:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JPaul @ 29 September 2003 - 01:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nigel123@28 September 2003 - 15:44
On a slightly lighter note, for those who are not sure&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Check your religion... (http://www.emode.com/tests/religion/authorize/signin.jsp?url=/tests/religion/index.jsp)
There are three adverts down the left hand side of the page. All promoting Judaism, one wonders if there is an agenda - is the test entirely objective. [/b][/quote]
This site is just another money making con, everyone gets a good reading, and is then encouraged to spend some money.

This is what they said about me ...


Rikk, your religious beliefs have the most in common with Unitarian Universalism

What sets Unitarian Universalism apart from other religions is their view on religious tolerance.


:)

thewizeard
09-28-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by __eric__@28 September 2003 - 17:10

Thinking along your lines then I have to point out that everyone makes mistakes...after all he created you as well....


Saucer of milk, table two :)
Don&#39;t understand that. Another mistake he created me&#33; :lol:

J'Pol
09-28-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by nigel123+28 September 2003 - 17:15--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 28 September 2003 - 17:15)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-__eric__@28 September 2003 - 17:10

Thinking along your lines then I have to point out that everyone makes mistakes...after all he created you as well....


Saucer of milk, table two :)
Don&#39;t understand that. Another mistake he created me&#33; :lol:[/b][/quote]
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/dante/944/cats/kitten7.gif

thewizeard
10-01-2003, 10:02 AM
Hello Human pet, please do&#33;


(nigel123 @ 1 October 2003 - 08:47)
QUOTE (CocoColaNut824 @ 1 October 2003 - 09:27)
But it&#39;s not God&#39;s mistake.... it&#39;s OURS...&nbsp; God does not predict our fate.&nbsp; Or is in control of our fate so it can&#39;t be God&#39;s "mistake".&nbsp; Robin Williams once put it in a way you may understand in one of his stand up comedian shows.. He put it in a
pretending, funny way as if he was God...&nbsp; "I gave you a beautiful world... and you ?&#@<&#39;ed&nbsp; it all up&#33;"&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We and only we are responsible for our own actions.&nbsp;


If I create something, then I am responsible for it. God would/should have &#39;seen&#39; what his creation was going to do right from the very beginning. Letting it happen and knowing that it would happen, would make Him responsible.Therefore God could not possibly be the Creator. As I said earlier giving people &#39;free-wil&#39; is only shifting the responsibility from the Creator to mankind.

This is the reason why I believe that this creation has got nothing to do with God whatsoever. In fact it would be an insult to God to suggest that he created something so imperfect....

But there you go, billions of people, all with their own beliefs&#33;


I would have gladly reply to your post (accordingly to my religion&#39;s view of God) but since this topic is about Christianity,I&#39;ll give the christians to debate you on your claims...

human_pet
10-01-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by nigel123@1 October 2003 - 10:02
Hello Human pet, please do&#33;


(nigel123 @ 1 October 2003 - 08:47)
QUOTE (CocoColaNut824 @ 1 October 2003 - 09:27)
But it&#39;s not God&#39;s mistake.... it&#39;s OURS...* God does not predict our fate.* Or is in control of our fate so it can&#39;t be God&#39;s "mistake".* Robin Williams once put it in a way you may understand in one of his stand up comedian shows.. He put it in a
pretending, funny way as if he was God...* "I gave you a beautiful world... and you ?&#@<&#39;ed* it all up&#33;"* * * We and only we are responsible for our own actions.*


If I create something, then I am responsible for it. God would/should have &#39;seen&#39; what his creation was going to do right from the very beginning. Letting it happen and knowing that it would happen, would make Him responsible.Therefore God could not possibly be the Creator. As I said earlier giving people &#39;free-wil&#39; is only shifting the responsibility from the Creator to mankind.

This is the reason why I believe that this creation has got nothing to do with God whatsoever. In fact it would be an insult to God to suggest that he created something so imperfect....

But there you go, billions of people, all with their own beliefs&#33;


I would have gladly reply to your post (accordingly to my religion&#39;s view of God) but since this topic is about Christianity,I&#39;ll give the christians to debate you on your claims...
First let us ask the question of why God created us,the answer is to test us for that is why He creates Paradise and Hell,if God were to be responsible for our actions ,why should He create the Hell and Heaven or in any case the Judement Day?The thing is,God is not unjust(i don&#39;t know if this is the right word :P),He does&#39;nt send us down here with free-will without any guidance and then judge us for the things we did not have any responsibility on,and this is where religion comes in,He orders us to do good and refrain from doing bad ,but it is up to us to choose to follow his Commands or to ignore it,this world is not ever-lasting one day,.it too will be history,for our true place will be on either Paradise or Hell,

thewizeard
10-01-2003, 12:38 PM
Still a bit of a strange thing to do. First create some imperfect beings. Then provide temptations and tests at every turn. He, being God, would be able to see the ultimate outcome of his creation. Just a Godly game? Something to do out of boredom? It just does not add up to me.

Now if this creation is the result of a devilish plan from Satan or some other Creator(other than God), then it might possibly all begin to make some sense.

In my eyes God would have to be perfect. Being perfect, to create something that is imperfect is for me a contradiction. So still I feel that this is not a creation by God, Allah or Ishvara or whatever name one prefers to use.

OK human-pet, thanks for your view.

human_pet
10-01-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by nigel123@1 October 2003 - 12:38
Still a bit of a strange thing to do. First create some imperfect beings. Then provide temptations and tests at every turn. He, being God, would be able to see the ultimate outcome of his creation. Just a Godly game? Something to do out of boredom? It just does not add up to me.

Now if this creation is the result of a devilish plan from Satan or some other Creator(other than God), then it might possibly all begin to make some sense.

In my eyes God would have to be perfect. Being perfect, to create something that is imperfect is for me a contradiction. So still I feel that this is not a creation by God, Allah or Ishvara or whatever name one prefers to use.

OK human-pet, thanks for your view.
Oh ok,atleast i know that i tried,ok lah i respect your view....

Salam/peace

ilw
10-01-2003, 01:51 PM
I think it only really works if free will is just that, ie something that cannot be predetermined, ie god cannot know what you are going to do. Which obviously grates with the omniscient thing

loz
10-01-2003, 03:54 PM
loz, your belief system is best suited to religions that value open mindedness



How do we know? While you were taking this test, we compared your religious beliefs against 10 of the world&#39;s most common religions. Your score shows that you share core beliefs with religions that encourage you to find your own spiritual path.

You are attracted to a religion that tolerates mixed beliefs about the existence of God and upholds the idea that there is something to be learned from every religion. You are open to a wide variety of religious and spiritual ideas. You are attracted to spiritual groups that are composed of typically open-minded and intellectual people who actively engage in individual exploration of many different spiritual truths.

There&#39;s my results & I am an athiest :)

PLUR