Anyone else totally FED UP of seedbox users?

[Trippin']

Rant time...

Where I live the best upload speed available to me is basic ADSL, which puts out data at about 45KB/s. My ISP also throttles bittorrent traffic at peak times, so I am unable to leech or seed between 6pm and 11pm.

Back when I first started using private trackers (not that long ago), some time in 2007, I had absolutely no problems. I could download movies, tv shows, whatever and seed them back fine. At that time my max upload was even less... around 35KB/s! I could even download a full 360 game and seed it for just a few hours a day and eventually, after 2 or 3 weeks, it would be seeded to a ratio of 1.

Since people started using seedboxes though, it's just been impossible for me to seed things. Most of the leechers are gone within a few hours and they are completely gone within a couple of days. Even when there are leechers available, all the seedboxes in the swarm mean that I don't even get the opportuntity to seed to them. I tried a seedbox myself for a few months and it made seeding things so easy but after a while I simply couldn't afford it.

Obviously a certain number of seedboxes is a good idea, especially for uploaders to get an initial copy out there, but I seriously think they are ruining the private tracker experience. I know retention helps a bit but I really havn't got the hard drive space to keep seeding absolutely everything that I download for months.

I would like to get an idea of what other FST users think of this, especially people in a similar situation to me (using a shite UK ADSL line).

[xJohnxSmithx]

I only get 50k ul and i love the all the seedboxes. I love getting my stuff fast. You could look into some different trackers which are easier to seed back to (ipt, tl etc) or some fl trackers (f*n, g*t etc).
cheers

[sez]

I couldn't agree with you more,
there are alot of rich kids who are doing BT simply to annoy their parents.

[johhn]

first of all, switch your isp to BE if you happen to be in its good service zone. it gives you better upload speed of 150k/s. dont even think about virgin media's new 'fantastic 50Mb fibre optic broadband'' it's just bollocks, you dont get better upload speed than BE Pro and it's just a matter of time b4 they start a new traffic management.
secondly, keep away from public trackers as well as private tracker like TL which has been infiltrated by anti-piracy groups. you dont want to receive letters from Davenport Lyons or ACS:Law.
a seedbox might give you extra safety and aid to buffer your trackers.some trackers do not require you seedback everything to 1:1 by its rules so you might find it easier on some different trackers. you can also start using those non-ratio trackers so you dont really have to worry about low seeding speed.
as for using a seedbox, you dont really have to keep a seedbox forever if you find it too expensive under the bloody recession, rent a good box and work it hard on your buffers for one month then you can sit back to enjoy for many months after.

[susiserken]

It does make seeding harder for the regular joe using a ADSL connection, but i dont see seebox users going away anytime soon. i also struggled abit on some trackers some years ago, dont really notice it after i upgraded to a fiber optics connection tho.

[IdolEyes787]

I have a seedbox and still agree with the OP.
Having to jump on every torrent that interests me within the first 10 seconds of it being upped isn't my idea of fun ( or how I want to spend my time for that matter).

[Skiz]

Agreed... even though I don't use Bittorrent I understand your frustration.

I was just looking back at a similar thread I started a couple years ago:


I just uploaded a torrent which has gotten a lot of quick leechers. I saw that 20+ members jumped on in the first 5-10 minutes, so I should get a good amount of upload, right? Wrong.

Current stats:

27 seeders
6 leechers
1.146 ratio

:dry:

[IdolEyes787]

first of all, switch your isp to BE if you happen to be in its good service zone. it gives you better upload speed of 150k/s. dont even think about virgin media's new 'fantastic 50Mb fibre optic broadband'' it's just bollocks, you dont get better upload speed than BE Pro and it's just a matter of time b4 they start a new traffic management.
secondly, keep away from public trackers as well as private tracker like TL which has been infiltrated by anti-piracy groups. you dont want to receive letters from Davenport Lyons or ACS:Law.
a seedbox might give you extra safety and aid to buffer your trackers.some trackers do not require you seedback everything to 1:1 by its rules so you might find it easier on some different trackers. you can also start using those non-ratio trackers so you dont really have to worry about low seeding speed.
as for using a seedbox, you dont really have to keep a seedbox forever if you find it too expensive under the bloody recession, rent a good box and work it hard on your buffers for one month then you can sit back to enjoy for many months after.

Short sighted.What you are saying is like "if you are frightened because everyone is carrying a gun then your best option is to carry one also."

The real source of the problem is that while speeds have increased the thinking of the people running trackers hasn't adapted to reflect that change.
With wide variance in what members have available to them steps should be taken to make torrenting a positive experience accessible to, if not all ,then most at least.

[hotshot6473]

That usually happens when you are the initial seeder. Everybody else will get a majority of the upload because you are simply putting out the data and is there job to spread it rapidly to their fellow peers

[stoi]

The real source of the problem is that while speeds have increased the thinking of the people running trackers hasn't adapted to reflect that change.

some have

[drew]

I'm fed up but not FED UP. But I've got 20/5 fios and a giganews subscription to help.

[Trippin']

The real source of the problem is that while speeds have increased the thinking of the people running trackers hasn't adapted to reflect that change.some have
Yep your tracker is currently the only one that doesn't make me hesitate before starting a download. ;)

EDIT: For those telling me to get a faster connection... I can't. Fastest available here is ADSL 8192/448 which is what I have.

[IdolEyes787]

The real source of the problem is that while speeds have increased the thinking of the people running trackers hasn't adapted to reflect that change.some have

Thought of you and FSC,that makes two .;)Any others?

My personal opinion is that trackers basically list ratio stats (and have userclasses ) to bend people's arms into being more active than they might otherwise be.What would happen if the only stats shown were total download( so people could still get an idea of activity) and whether you had a positive or negative ratio?

[stoi]

What about the freeleech trackers.

and on BCG everyone should have a positive global ratio (actual ratio not so much).

But this is why we are working on the acheivement table for us, its something a little bit different, its just taken an age to code the classes into it.

there are 2 major factors though, epenis and P2L.

Most members like having the top rank, and a huge buffer so they dont have to worry (this doesnt work on BCG but on most trackers it does)

then you have P2L the more seedboxes there are, the more members struggle to keep a ratio, = the more members that pay for upload to stay on the site.

Obviously with that one you can have to many seedboxes, but even then, even if everyone on the tracker has a seedbox, there will still be some that cant keep a 1:1 ratio.

Seedboxes are both good and bad, on BCG i am like tripping, i can download anything i like without having to worry, and its not even a staff perk, every member can. but if i did join a global ratio tracker, i would be scared shitless to download anything, hence why i am not a member of anywhere else.

PS: I dont use a seedbox

[DV8type]

Well i think the bigger picture is the mentality that seedboxes have created which has been detrimental to trackers in general. While i do appreciate seedboxes as some use them responsibly, they have become so prolific that on many sites you need one to stay on. The mentality of instant gratification is now prevalent throughout torrents, examples of which are the lack of retention on many sites, the widespread acceptance of P2L/I, the preference of Free Leech on trackers as mandatory, the lack of appreciation for uploaders, the general "Me 1st" mentality which was not so wide spread before cheap servers.

The funny thing is i get requests for invites where the 1st thing they mention is the fact that they have 2-5 seedboxes, and it actually turns me off to inviting them as i think a good torrent user has other interest besides torrents and having that many seedboxes is a bit obsessive and speaks to there mentality. Sadly most seedbox owners tend to think that the answer is throwing money around, instead of actually taking the time to make friends and help build a community. I am glad i am part of a community which does not emphasize that aspect of torrenting.

What i dont understand is the fact that they seem to think they get the rls faster, which is somewhat true unless your actually going to WATCH the rls you downloaded, cuz then its actually seen at about the same time w/ or w/out the seedbox, since most still have to DL to there home via ftp

[ovisan]

I also share yre frustration mate. i was wit Virgin(max 45 kbps up speed), now I m wit Orange(got it free wit my mobile phone contract- max 40kbps) and I can say that both are pants. I m gutted, I cant surf the web while seeding, I have to borrow cds from my mate to keep a decent ratio on what.cd, and I got ratio 1 only after a cople of weex of seeding a xVid film on most of the trackers. At least Orange doesnt throttle the speeds at peak hours.
A few advices, if I may: get on the right trackers, expecially the ones where you shouldn't care about ratios. Also trackers wit seedeng rules(max 3:1) are allrite or the ones with seeding bonuses, just buy upload. I also sugest that you should have more than 4-5 trackers on yre bookmarks, cause keeping more than that will then be impossible. I also borrow my mates seedboxes when I m in trouble. BETHERE seems to be torrent-friendly althought I never tryed it. I ve also heard rumors that you can chip your ruter and ger 1Mb upload on Virgin. You may wanna google that.

As you can see you are not the only one fed up wit his isp and those with super ratios. I for instance cant see how a ratio of 10 and loads of trafic on yre seedbox could help you and the others around you. BT is about sharing between people not sharing beetween seedboxes. I had to stop using SCT for this reason...

Tara

[Cabalo]

The real source of the problem is that while speeds have increased the thinking of the people running trackers hasn't adapted to reflect that change.some have
yes, some do.
but those, just like you, are a dying breed in the BT world.

[tippertime]

well if you have a slow connection...the best thing to do is just get a seedbox for a month or two get a pretty nice buffer and don't worry about it anymore...because its only going to get harder as time goes on...

[brightsid]

You are member to some fine trackers tippertime as I can understand from your sign
Except bcg and ScT that I'm not member in all the others what do you need the big buffer?
I'm with an average home connection and I really thank all the seedbox owners for downloading fast what I want, but I can't understand the need of buffering your account .

[Trippin']

well if you have a slow connection...the best thing to do is just get a seedbox for a month or two get a pretty nice buffer and don't worry about it anymore...because its only going to get harder as time goes on...
What so seed my ass off for a couple of months so that I can just hit and run on everything after that? Not really the solution I am looking for. :lol:

[1000possibleclaws]

I couldn't agree with you more,
there are alot of rich kids who are doing BT simply to annoy their parents.

Most seedbox users I know aren't "kids". Torrenting is normal for kids, it's not rebellious in any way.

[ovisan]

You are member to some fine trackers tippertime as I can understand from your sign
Except bcg and ScT that I'm not member in all the others what do you need the big buffer?
I'm with an average home connection and I really thank all the seedbox owners for downloading fast what I want, but I can't understand the need of buffering your account .

We were not talking about buffering our accounts but keeping a decent ratio maty. Cause downloading wit 1.2Mbps and then uploading with max 10kbps(peak) aint grate at all

[brightsid]

Well with a 10kbs up connection probably I would have a problem in downloading what I want also :P . But I was talking about huge buffers I notice around

[Cokeman]

This is right up there with the stupidest thing ive ever heard.
In those trackers where pre times and speeds are in demand i dont thing its going to work.

If any tracker im in and decides do limite uploads ill start to delete or just let it die period.

[sez]

What so seed my ass off for a couple of months so that I can just hit and run on everything after that? Not really the solution I am looking for.

Actually that's the only viable solution for you atm.Plus you don't necessarily have to hit and run(though nothing is off the table once the system has you off the radar :P)You can choose to leave your torrents on the client for upto at least the minimum seed time,that way whether they upload or not you would have at least done your part and you wont have to worry about losing your account due to low ratio unlike now(in essence you will have a ratioless tracker at least for a while if you aren't the heavy leecher type :yes: )
hope you get the solution you are seeking though.You do got brainz no doubt ;)


Most seedbox users I know aren't "kids". Torrenting is normal for kids, it's not rebellious in any way.

That's outta context T.S.O.L<-and just curious is that "the sons of liberty"?
and by kids i didn't mean babies,if you read it as a metaphor it woulda made alot more sense.


Most seedbox users I know aren't "kids". Torrenting is normal for kids, it's not rebellious in any way.

That's outta context T.S.O.L<-and just curious is that "the sons of liberty"?
and by kids i didn't mean babies,if you read it as a metaphor it woulda made alot more sense.

[ovisan]

If any tracker im in and decides do limite uploads ill start to delete or just let it die period.

Ya neva...

I bet yre one of there gheezas staring at the screen waiting for the latest torrent to come out o maximize yre seedbox speed... Do ya actually get to watch/listen/play/read the things you download/seed?? I bet not

I agree that seedboxes are all about speed but if there are 5-6 seeders per torrent you will easily get a decent download speed even is none of them uses a seedbox.

Anyway this is one of them who was first chicken or the egg threads. One thing is clear: seedbox owners make it harder for the rest of us to seed 1:1.

[1000possibleclaws]

Naw it's not sons of liberty, thats our news poster :P and I wasn't referring to babies either. Most ppl I know that use seedboxes are adults with jobs.

[105802]

get a seedbox
buffer your account
profit ?!!?

[IdolEyes787]

What about the freeleech trackers.




My only bone of contention is that requirements for higher user classes are still based on upload.
Any idiot with a seedbox can make the highest userclass and still contribute next to nothing to the site(speaking from experience).
If you are going by such stats why not make progression dependent on download instead( as long as you are >1 of course).That at least takes away the advantage of speed over activity.

[1000possibleclaws]

Well they ARE spending their money to help others, so the rest don't have to all reach 1:1. I'm happy with them getting their "superhero" rank while I don't spend a cent and get my content fast and without a requirement to seed all the way back. Win-win.

[ovisan]

What about the freeleech trackers.




All no ratio trakers I m a member of still request a 1:1 ratio per torrent or, off course, 2-3 days total seeding time. And again we go back where we started, hard to seed 1:1.

A while ago I got in to bitseduce. I ve downloaded/seeded a couple of books an audiobook and a few other things. After 3 days my ratio was something like 0.0XX. Gutted. Asked a friend for help he offered my his sb, i ve only seeded one torrent (less than a gig, I dont know what it was, who cares?!?1?) and uploaded about 30 GB in a couple of days. Now my ratio was 15 something. And of course I ve quit seeding those other torrents, I couldnt see the point in doing it. Now I m asking: all you seedbox owners are doing the same? I hope not cause this is not the best way to help a tracker... not in my eyes anyway.

Cheers

[IdolEyes787]

Well they ARE spending their money to help others, so the rest don't have to all reach 1:1. I'm happy with them getting their "superhero" rank while I don't spend a cent and get my content fast and without a requirement to seed all the way back. Win-win.

I don't seem to be wearing the rose coloured glasses as you TrueSounds because I don't perceive the average seedbox owner as owning one in an effort to help others.

[pikapo0]

lol @ rich ppl trying to piss off there parents

but yea real men dont use seedboxes :)

[SonsOfLiberty]

If you pay for torrents, then why not just pay for Newsgroups, stuff pre's sometimes earlier than torrents and sometimes a few minutes later (depeding on the tracker....example, GhostBusters The Video Game pre'd and then it got released on Usenet less than 5 mintues later.), your downloads will be twice as fast (if not maxed out) and best of all you don't have to upload (seed).

[1000possibleclaws]

Well they ARE spending their money to help others, so the rest don't have to all reach 1:1. I'm happy with them getting their "superhero" rank while I don't spend a cent and get my content fast and without a requirement to seed all the way back. Win-win.

I don't seem to be wearing the rose coloured glasses as you TrueSounds because I don't perceive the average seedbox owner as owning one in an effort to help others.

It's true, I bet tons of ppl abuse it and download anything with big filesizes on the no ratio trackers, and then dump them when the initial leechers die off for the next big torrent. They do this just to get l33t ranks. I just don't look at someone with a huge upload count and see them as any better than a regular user. Maybe just eliminating classes like BCG did is the next step in progression. I don't know though, I mean FTN just introduced some crazy high req for those new ranks. It's really not a big deal to me at the end of the day. Doesn't affect me at all.

[Cokeman]

If any tracker im in and decides do limite uploads ill start to delete or just let it die period.

Ya neva...

I bet yre one of there gheezas staring at the screen waiting for the latest torrent to come out o maximize yre seedbox speed... Do ya actually get to watch/listen/play/read the things you download/seed?? I bet not

I agree that seedboxes are all about speed but if there are 5-6 seeders per torrent you will easily get a decent download speed even is none of them uses a seedbox.

Anyway this is one of them who was first chicken or the egg threads. One thing is clear: seedbox owners make it harder for the rest of us to seed 1:1.

Dont DL music, games or books.

Just movies and tv series, unless im asked to get some.
Now of what i DL i watch about 75%, the rest i store it.

I only wait for torrents when tv season is up...

[stoi]

What about the freeleech trackers.




My only bone of contention is that requirements for higher user classes are still based on upload.
Any idiot with a seedbox can make the highest userclass and still contribute next to nothing to the site(speaking from experience).
If you are going by such stats why not make progression dependent on download instead( as long as you are >1 of course).That at least takes away the advantage of speed over activity.

The problem is with basing it on download, someone may just download 1 huge pack, or 10 360 games, or 1000 NDS games. what i am trying to say is, just because someone has downloaded 60 gig it may just be 1 torrent, or it could be 10, or it could be 1000 torrents.

so download doesnt really take into activity either, even though it is a bit better than just upload, but its not the ideal solution imho. but then i dont know what is lol

[camicio]

The real source of the problem is that while speeds have increased the thinking of the people running trackers hasn't adapted to reflect that change.


This.

A 10 mbps connection is introduced in the tracker which can upload as much as 10-40 normal users, and things become worse. Whose fault do you think it is?
Can it ever hurt having a seedbox seed on public trackers?

[Funkin']

If you pay for torrents, then why not just pay for Newsgroups, stuff pre's sometimes earlier than torrents and sometimes a few minutes later (depeding on the tracker....example, GhostBusters The Video Game pre'd and then it got released on Usenet less than 5 mintues later.), your downloads will be twice as fast (if not maxed out) and best of all you don't have to upload (seed).

I'm guessing because there's no e-penis involved with newsgroups, and that must be a huge turn off to a lot of bittorrent users. These types would rather pay twice the money or more to rent a server and get soopa 1337 ratios on their tracker accounts.

[The_Martinator]

Seedboxes help and do not help the BT community. Fact.

firstly, I agree with the OP. Giving away invites at other forums and occasionally here, I get profile links/ratio proofs you wouldn't believe. Just how many people are there at TL with more than 1TL uploaded?!
I've seen a lot of 15-17 or so year olds, with 2-3 seedboxes going at it at TL. It seems to be some sort of magical path to the harder toget trackers. You buy 2 seedboxes, you beg for a TL invite, you buffer up your newly required account and then start begging for harder to get sites. Maybe if you don't get there quick enough you start trading....
Of course we all know what seedboxes do for a normal user (me). It's harder to seed (but only on a few sites it's impossible to keep a ratio without one), thus you're actually afraid of downloading stuff. And that's very far away from the spirit of file sharing. Also, seeding to someone, who's obviously using a seedbox just doesn't feel right to me.

The good side of seedboxes, however, is the speed you get. I don't have to pay anything to get a TV pack from ScT/SCC at full speed. The best thing is that these packs are freeleech and that they're well seeded allmost without exeptions. I tend to miss a lot of great TV shows so this is where I really benefit from seedboxes, again without paying a dime. This I appreciate.

To the people applying for FSC / molesting the staff, lol: do some research. I know very little about the site, but from what I've gathered here (and I haven't been asking about FSC, it just comes up during discussions) FSC is community driven. The fact that you have 5 seedboxes and are willing to donate may be OK, but don't expect them to invite you just because of that. You'll get there if your personality, etc. ( tbh, I don't know what they're looking for in a member, I'm speculating) is the right one.

to conclude, reading is a virtue. :lol:

[jars]

I'm very appreciative of torrenters that rent seedboxes as it means I get what I want faster. They're still sharing after all. I'm quite happy to seed as much as I can for as long as I can with my mediocre upload speed in my role of sharing.

[Disme]

Seedboxes FTW ... they get my connection maxed out time and time again.

And the ones without seedboxes should learn what torrents to download and which not. If everybody knew what to download there wouldn't be such topics like this.

[Mugur]

I guess many people are happy when they can download at full speed, but when they have to make a little effort and seed, they suddenly become FED UP.

[stoi]

Seedboxes FTW ... they get my connection maxed out time and time again.

And the ones without seedboxes should learn what torrents to download and which not. If everybody knew what to download there wouldn't be such topics like this.

Surley you download what you want to download, and not what you dont want.

Which is 1/2 the problem with seedboxes, they download just for the sake of the buffer, they probably never watch/play/listen to half the stuff.

[IdolEyes787]

Seedboxes FTW ... they get my connection maxed out time and time again.

And the ones without seedboxes should learn what torrents to download and which not. If everybody knew what to download there wouldn't be such topics like this.

I don't agree with that at all.If a person is a member at a site they should be able to download any file that they choose without resorting to games .
So many people spend too much time and effort downloading garbage that they have no genuine interest in just to maintain ratio,

And I am not talking about certain trackers like ScT that you go in with your eyes wide open .I am talking about the run of the mill ones that seem to be getting harder to seed at everyday.

Or maybe I'm just a socialist at heart and I believe that everyone should be more or less equal.( I readying for the inevitable "but I pay a lot for a speedbox so why should I carry on my back those people who are too poor or cheap to do the same". Only answer would be because no one is forcing you to have a seedbox and looking out for the interests of others is always the right thing to do )

[The_Martinator]

You've been answered better than I could have answered you, Disme.

Just one thing to add, I didn't take you for a Rank hunter. Guess I was wrong.

[Disme]

Seedboxes FTW ... they get my connection maxed out time and time again.

And the ones without seedboxes should learn what torrents to download and which not. If everybody knew what to download there wouldn't be such topics like this.

I don't agree with that at all.If a person is a member at a site they should be able to download any file that they choose without resorting to games .
So many people spend too much time and effort downloading garbage that they have no genuine interest in just to maintain ratio,

And I am not talking about certain trackers like ScT that you go in with your eyes wide open .I am talking about the run of the mill ones that seem to be getting harder to seed at everyday.

Or maybe I'm just a socialist at heart and I believe that everyone should be more or less equal.( I readying for the inevitable "but I pay a lot for a speedbox so why should I carry on my back those people who are too poor or cheap to do the same". Only answer would be because no one is forcing you to have a seedbox and looking out for the interests of others is always the right thing to do )

Maybe you are right, but I've always adopted the principle that I don't download the things I know I cannot get a decent ratio on. Or I try to build some kind of buffer for a long time with my home connection and than I go ahead and download what I want and let it seed for as long as I can (which is basically ages).

I tend to be rather pragmatic with the seedbox issue ... I just got used to it during the many years I've been sharing files.
I do understand it can be frustrating for people that have never kniwn anything but free downloads, but I grew up in a time where people actually had to buy the things (music/games/appz/movies/etc) they wanted and that makes me humble when seeing what is available for free these days.

People with seedboxes may make it harder for others without seedboxes to download and seed, but I do think many people take the right to download way to 'for granted'.

It's just like in real life ... not everyone is able to build a huge house or drive a Ferrari (cliché, I know) ... in a nutshell ... life sometimes sucks, virtual life included.


You've been answered better than I could have answered you, Disme.

Just one thing to add, I didn't take you for a Rank hunter. Guess I was wrong.

I might have given you the wrong impression, but I did mean I like seedboxes because they max out my download-speed, not my upload-speed :).
It's upload that is required to obtain rank on a tracker, not download.

I'm on a limited connection, meaning I can download/upload a certain amount/per month). Over the years I have gotten bigger and bigger quota and as we speak I have 200GB/month (download and upload), but there was a time where I had 15 GB download and 1,5 upload.

That is one of the reasons I am not really concerned with the seedbox issue, I've always had to be carefull what files to get and which not.

I consider my biggest power the fact I can seed something for years if I want, and i have done and still do at present.

[The_Martinator]

Ah, now I get it. Where I live there is no limits on how much you can upload/download. Just lousy speeds, lol (at least in my area).

[Hombre]

i'm going to rent my 1st box next week. i heard that with a good box you can even send 10TB in one single month. it's a lot. off course it makes it harder for other users, but i spend 30€ and i dont have to worry about ratio for years! it's a great deal, much better than donate to sites to not be banned because my ratio is too low. seedbox is great deal if u know how use it.

[stoi]

i'm going to rent my 1st box next week. i heard that with a good box you can even send 10TB in one single month. it's a lot. off course it makes it harder for other users, but i spend 30€ and i dont have to worry about ratio for years! it's a great deal, much better than donate to sites to not be banned because my ratio is too low. seedbox is great deal if u know how use it.

Thats no good if everyone gets a seedbox and no one donates and the tracker goes down.

and your buffer goes down the pan with it.

[Hombre]

i'm going to rent my 1st box next week. i heard that with a good box you can even send 10TB in one single month. it's a lot. off course it makes it harder for other users, but i spend 30€ and i dont have to worry about ratio for years! it's a great deal, much better than donate to sites to not be banned because my ratio is too low. seedbox is great deal if u know how use it.

Thats no good if everyone gets a seedbox and no one donates and the tracker goes down.

and your buffer goes down the pan with it.

but u see a good reason to donate to a site instead buy SB and live from it? in the eyes of the user it is a much better deal. it cant be compared. or u prefer sites that they only give u invites if u give them money? and then they come brag about how private they are and exclusive. it's all liars. they do it for the money. i prefer to give my money to a company that rents me a server. it's a matter of choice.

[1000possibleclaws]

Seedboxes FTW ... they get my connection maxed out time and time again.

And the ones without seedboxes should learn what torrents to download and which not. If everybody knew what to download there wouldn't be such topics like this.

Huh? Shouldn't they just download what they want to watch.. :unsure: Not too hard to 'learn' that, it would hopefully come naturally.

edit: didn't catch up with the thread, see this was already mentioned.

[stoi]

Thats no good if everyone gets a seedbox and no one donates and the tracker goes down.

and your buffer goes down the pan with it.

but u see a good reason to donate to a site instead buy SB and live from it? in the eyes of the user it is a much better deal. it cant be compared. or u prefer sites that they only give u invites if u give them money? and then they come brag about how private they are and exclusive. it's all liars. they do it for the money. i prefer to give my money to a company that rents me a server. it's a matter of choice.

hmm who said anything about invites, or gigs for $$. (i am not getting into P2L or P4I in this thread)

My point was, if everyone got a seedbox, and never donated to another site ever again, there would be no sites for you to use your precious seedboxes on, and all that money you spent on a seedbox, would be wasted, as if the sites go, then your precious buffer goes with it, and in turn no sites to use your seedbox on.

[IdolEyes787]

Thats no good if everyone gets a seedbox and no one donates and the tracker goes down.

and your buffer goes down the pan with it.

but u see a good reason to donate to a site instead buy SB and live from it? in the eyes of the user it is a much better deal. it cant be compared. or u prefer sites that they only give u invites if u give them money? and then they come brag about how private they are and exclusive. it's all liars. they do it for the money. i prefer to give my money to a company that rents me a server. it's a matter of choice.

Point is that without the site you will just be left with a very fast connection to surf the internet with.

Oops slow off the mark again.:pinch:

[shipwreck]

It really boils down to how balanced a tracker is, what precautions (e.g. a proper bonus system) the admins have implemented to prevent the negative side effects of seedboxes from becoming overwhelming, and hurting the site and community as a consequence. Or to put it differently: You should never be forced to download stuff you don't want just to keep a good / acceptable ratio. If that is the case, something is wrong with the design / balance of the tracker.

Or just get rid of this whole ratio system altogether, which actually has has been the trend for a lot of the newer trackers recently.

[cinephilia]

Or just get rid of this whole ratio system altogether, which actually has has been the trend for a lot of the newer trackers recently.
except that the ratio system is actually the last rampart to prompt users to keep torrents seeding for a long time. if you get rid of it, there's no doubt that the retention will be seriously affected.

[sez]

Actually you all kinda missed what hombre meant to say.He didn't say he won't donate to a tracker.He leaves open the option of donating to keep the site alive but what he refuses is extortion and bribery i.e he'd rather eat dirt than pay so as to maintain his account on a tracker because he'd be banned if he doesn't.

He prefers working himself out of a mess just like everyone else only that he is choosing to do it with a little help from OVH.Hombre is e-honest and the fact that he is talking about pushing 10TB in 30 days with €30 only(impossible if you ask me)that makes hombre e-hardworking :yes: :yes:

[Cokeman]

People are never happy.
At 1st speeds were low and took forever to get a pack.
Then came fast conections and SB. Everyone was happy for awhile.
Npw they bitch because some overseed. Who cares what they seed. Just keep the torrent alive for a few days longer.

Someone mentioned about spending on SB rather then hlping out trackers:
Thats a good point, but why download and not go buy it at the store?

If you have bad conections then you should be in p2p.
My sb is 20euros. If you cant afford it then get another hobby

[stoi]

I almost feel sorry for him, after all seeding with a seedbox is so strenous and hard isnt it. (sarcasm btw)

[cinephilia]

My sb is 20euros. If you cant afford it then get another hobby
precisely, torrenting is not a fuckin hobby..

[shipwreck]

Or just get rid of this whole ratio system altogether, which actually has has been the trend for a lot of the newer trackers recently.
except that the ratio system is actually the last rampart to prompt users to keep torrents seeding for a long time. if you get rid of it, there's no doubt that the retention will be seriously affected.

Long term seeding is not really encouraged by a ratio system, because it takes too much time, and 'success' is not even guaranteed (maybe nobody is interested in the stuff you seed). A bonus system, in addition to a ratio system or not (there are non-ratio sites that have a bonus system) is the much better way to encourage users to keep torrents alive over a long period of time.

[cinephilia]

i do agree that a bonus system is the best way to encourage long term seeding but once again, ratio system is still a safeguard. i often noticed the more a tracker is hard to seed on, the more its members tends to seed torrents longer (especially those with slow connections). it works like a charm for trackers like KG, what.cd or waffles anyway.

[IdolEyes787]

I readying for the inevitable "but I pay for a speedbox so why should I carry on my back those people who are too poor or cheap to do the same".




If you have bad conections then you should be in p2p.
My sb is 20euros. If you cant afford it then get another hobby

Told you.:whistling


it's a lot. off course it makes it harder for other users, but i spend 30€ and i dont have to worry



Actually you all kinda missed what hombre meant to say.He didn't say he won't donate to a tracker.He leaves open the option of donating to keep the site alive but what he refuses is extortion and bribery i.e he'd rather eat dirt than pay so as to maintain his account on a tracker because he'd be banned if he doesn't.

He prefers working himself out of a mess just like everyone else only that he is choosing to do it with a little help from OVH.Hombre is e-honest and the fact that he is talking about pushing 10TB in 30 days with €30 only(impossible if you ask me)that makes hombre e-hardworking :yes: :yes: Sorry stopped paying attention after that part( not really it's like artistic license like )and just want to add that's really e-nnoying.

[1000possibleclaws]

except that the ratio system is actually the last rampart to prompt users to keep torrents seeding for a long time. if you get rid of it, there's no doubt that the retention will be seriously affected.

Long term seeding is not really encouraged by a ratio system, because it takes too much time, and 'success' is not even guaranteed (maybe nobody is interested in the stuff you seed). A bonus system, in addition to a ratio system or not (there are non-ratio sites that have a bonus system) is the much better way to encourage users to keep torrents alive over a long period of time.

Can you back that up? Whatcd doesn't have a bonus system, but it's got seeders. Same with bitmetv, and ScT, and TT. I think you just like bonus systems and are trying to justify them by making absurd statements.

It might be ok when it's balanced and rewards small amounts of upload while files are generally large (KG) or if it's a 0day tracker where the extra upload can be made up from the uploaders seedboxes. However I don't think your statement has very much truth in it.

[cinephilia]

not to mention that a bonus system would be totally useless without a ratio system (except maybe for karma points whores).

[shipwreck]

Can you back that up? Whatcd doesn't have a bonus system, but it's got seeders. Same with bitmetv, and ScT, and TT. I think you just like bonus systems and are trying to justify them by making absurd statements.

It might be ok when it's balanced and rewards small amounts of upload while files are generally large (KG) or if it's a 0day tracker where the extra upload can be made up from the uploaders seedboxes. However I don't think your statement has very much truth in it.[/quote]

What.cd got seeders because it strongly encourages uploading of your own stuff. Without your own uploads, it's very difficult to maintain a good ratio there, unless you have a seedbox and leech tons of stuff you don't really want / need (like many users do there). What.cd therefore is not exactly the best example you could have brought up in this respect.
And it's no 'proof' for the effectiveness of the ratio system either - people who keep seeding stuff for months, or years even, likely would do so without a ratio system also (particularly on specialised trackers like TT, with a lot of 'enthusiasts' willing to share).

Bonus systems, which not only reward upload speed (-> seedbox users), but seeding time, are to the benefit of all users. It's not about what I 'like' or not, I can handle bonus-free ratio trackers just fine, thank you. It's about what is logically to the benefit of all, and you have yet to provide a valid argument why a bonus system is not beneficial.



not to mention that a bonus system would be totally useless without a ratio system (except maybe for karma points whores).

Sorry, but that is nonsense. You can reward users with invites, for example, and other benefits. There are non-ratio sites that do exactly that.

[1000possibleclaws]

Well you didn't back up your post. All you did was take apart my examples with your assumptions yet offering no concrete reasons, proofs, or examples. I can only lol at what you're saying.

BTW I make tons more upload at seeding snatched torrents on what than by uploading my own. I upload purely for the sake of sharing, it's ridiculous to upload purely for ratio. Just keep a bunch of torrents you snatched seeding. Assuming they aren't too niche you WILL get upload because what.cd gets tons of traffic.

[TP635]

What may have a fairly long retention, but on closer look one will see that there are tons of 1 seeder-torrents(the original uploader). And only a sb owner (with a good ratio) will want to dl such torrent. So, long retention by itself is of little use, if members fear to download old files.
This is the reason I like ptp bonus system; it take into account the number of files you seed and factored in the size of the files and add an extra point for file below 5 seeders. This encorage people downloading underseeded torrents.

I don't need sb to get good ratio in tracker with bonus system, and bonus system is not relevent to people with sb.

[t3rr1ble]

Nah they help the overall speed of the sites.
Who wants to wait days/hours for a download,trackers lose members that away as the members can go to public no ratio trackers and get the files in that amount of time.
I just get fed up with the whole epenor thing>"I seeded @38MB/s see screenshots in my profile" yadda yadda yadda
Well who gives a flying **** unless you uploaded it originally 20 seconds after pre :P

[The_Martinator]

Guys, a bonus system is very usefull, but it can also be abused, by users limiting their upload speed. Again that's where the community aspect (sharing is caring) kick in.

why do people seed at BMTV, What, etc. for a longer time? Simple, because they're afraid of their ratio. Honestly, Im glad I used a seedbox there. But my buffer at BMTV is allmost all used out.

[codec]

Imho a ratio system is bad anyway.
Why? Because there is always someone left over.
Let's simplify the whole torrent thing, just 1 seeder and 1 leecher.
You see, the leecher will download but will not able to seed it back.
Imagine the whole now on a today's tracker.
The one with faster upload speed will get more requests of course,
while the one with slower will get lesser
and the last in the chain will never get one anyway.
I don't blame the seedboxes, they keep the speed on valuable level(at least for the new torrents),
more the ratio system itself. There should be another system to evaluate a user.
Upload shouldn't be the only thing but a part of it.

[manu1991]

There's no point in blaming seedbox users , Internet speeds will get faster , people in Japan/Korea have access to 100 meg connections , how would that be diff from a seedbox

[TP635]

Guys, a bonus system is very usefull, but it can also be abused, by users limiting their upload speed. Again that's where the community aspect (sharing is caring) kick in.

why do people seed at BMTV, What, etc. for a longer time? Simple, because they're afraid of their ratio. Honestly, Im glad I used a seedbox there. But my buffer at BMTV is allmost all used out.

It is true that bonus system can be abused, and had been abused. But no one like to point a finger to sb user for ridiculously over-seeding as an abuser.

[The_Martinator]

Guys, a bonus system is very usefull, but it can also be abused, by users limiting their upload speed. Again that's where the community aspect (sharing is caring) kick in.

why do people seed at BMTV, What, etc. for a longer time? Simple, because they're afraid of their ratio. Honestly, Im glad I used a seedbox there. But my buffer at BMTV is allmost all used out.

It is true that bonus system can be abused, and had been abused. But no one like to point a finger to sb user for ridiculously over-seeding as an abuser.

They did and still do it at Pedro's in spite of the rules changes.

[cinephilia]

What.cd got seeders because it strongly encourages uploading of your own stuff. Without your own uploads, it's very difficult to maintain a good ratio there, unless you have a seedbox and leech tons of stuff you don't really want / need (like many users do there). What.cd therefore is not exactly the best example you could have brought up in this respect.
you mean What.cd got stuff because it strongly encourages uploading.
uploads have nothing to do with seeding time and most of the time, uploaders are not even part of the last seeders.
trust me, after uploading their own torrents, the most used way by what.cd members to maintain a positive ratio is to keep torrents seeding 'forever' (and it works).


not to mention that a bonus system would be totally useless without a ratio system (except maybe for karma points whores).

Sorry, but that is nonsense. You can reward users with invites, for example, and other benefits. There are non-ratio sites that do exactly that.
lol, do you seriously think that the major part of the members of a tracker would be willing to seed torrents for a long period only to get invites and useless prices like custom titles or VIP status for x months ?

[iLOVENZB]

My upload speed ranges from 256kbps to 512kbps and I currently have a ratio of 3.281 on a tracker.

The trick is to grab FL torrents or download form Usenet and 'help' seed.

[Mugur]

So, basically, we want to:


maximize download speeds -> seedboxes FTW!
maximize retention -> everybody seeed!
minimize the frustration of people who cannot grab what they want -> the hell with the seedboxes? No!

There must be found other ways to achieve this third goal. It is quite obvious that the global ratio system is a major obstacle for it, so let's get rid of it. But how do we motivate the people in order to achieve goals 1 and 2 then?
One way is to reintroduce the ratio system, but for each torrent this time. The whole idea of sharing is to give back at least as much as you got, anyway. But imposing 1:1 ratio for each torrent would make things a lot worse than now. So, two separated concepts must be introduced: real ratio and recorded ratio. The real ratio would be the one we know, download / upload, while recorded ratio = real ratio + seed time bonus, where seed time bonus would be something like 0.05/h.
People who continue seeding after their real ratio is 1 should receive bonuses which can be used for things like: making requests and reseed requests, reduce the seed time required on other torrents that they don't have the possibility to seed(this must be made quite impractical in terms of bonus needed for a torrent to be leeched freely, as we must not forget goal number 2), receive invites, custom titles, access to special areas in the forums etc.
Advantages:


we generally achieve goal number 3 because noone should fear to download what they want anymore, as in the worst case scenario they'll just have to seed the torrent for 200 hours and that's all
everyone will be interested to upload as much as possible, so they can remove the torrent sooner or get some bonus to spend on different things. (and yes, i do think that if it would be the only way to get invites at FTN for example, there would be a lot of guys there seeding like crazy in order to get their precious e-penis enlargement tool)

Of course, donating should be rewarded with some gigs of free download, so people don't forget about this important thing and the guys that want usenet like service can be pleased.

[Six66Mike]

My biggest beef with seedbox users are RSS downloaders. They rarely, if ever, use what they download aside from ratio buffer, garbage quality is further expanded without anyone reporting bad uploads, and it's just pointless. The point of downloading for me has always been to get what you want. Never to build a ratio, but because it's something you want. They rarely seed very long, a week at best. The what.cd upload contests were a fine example where you'd literally see 50 seedbox users grab this stuff and a week or so later there's under a dozen seeds left. Not to mention downloading something with 35+ snatches only to find out it was a piss weak rip. RSS blows, I hate it, I'll never use it.

People moaning about bad upload speeds can still have a solid buffer on sites. I had well over 100gb buffer on what.cd with my home ADSL because I uploaded & kept torrents alive. i got over 2TB up on bmtv over 2 years simply from seeding on a 1mbps upload connection 24/7, I never stopped unless the torrent died or got too crowded.

I use a seedbox now because I can't afford to stay on a high quota, and torrent has far more overhead than FTP. I leech what I want to my box then FTP it home. I'm moving to a new ISP next month that count uploads, and that rules out going back to seeding from home. But atleast then I'll have 200GB for the same price I currently pay for a lousy 40GB so I can now leech my seedbox even more.

For me it's not about ratio building, it never has been. It's always been a way to download what I want before it gets deleted so I can bring it home down the road.

So I'm not sick of seedboxes. I'm sick of how a lot of people (mis)use them.

[TP635]

So I'm not sick of seedboxes. I'm sick of how a lot of people (mis)use them.

I seconded that

[johhn]

So, two separated concepts must be introduced: real ratio and recorded ratio. The real ratio would be the one we know, download / upload, while recorded ratio = real ratio + seed time bonus, where seed time bonus would be something like 0.05/h.
People who continue seeding after their real ratio is 1 should receive bonuses which can be used for things like: making requests and reseed requests, reduce the seed time required on other torrents that they don't have the possibility to seed(this must be made quite impractical in terms of bonus needed for a torrent to be leeched freely, as we must not forget goal number 2), receive invites, custom titles, access to special areas in the forums etc.

good idea but wouldnt this mean that every tracker should be like fsc but unfortunately,as far as I know., even fsc doesnt have that much fun to offer.
not trying to be negtive here but a few years from now on, we might not be using torrent any more. who knows. so for the moment I'd rather face the reality that sb is dominating the private tracker world so I'd either go with the flow or find 'elsewhere peaceful'.

[iLOVENZB]

not trying to be negtive here but a few years from now on, we might not be using torrent any more. who knows. so for the moment I'd rather face the reality that sb is dominating the private tracker world so I'd either go with the flow or find 'elsewhere peaceful'.

Why do you see seedboxes as a bad thing? If you don't like seedboxes stick to public trackers?

Seedboxes offer speed (to the leecher) and flexibility (to the seeder).

I don't use a seed box and I know how hard it is to compete with seedbox users and users in Sweden :P

This is one of the main 'cons' with p2p so that's why FTP's are better in so many ways (Security, Speed).

If you can't beat 'em join 'em!