Freedom In The Usa

[nikita69]

As a person who lives in the USA, do you believe that you have FREEDOM as described in the Bill of Rights? Yes I do
No I don't
Yes I believe they do (Non US person)
No I don't believe so (Non US person)
None of the above
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people

[nikita69]

Opinions anyone?

[razorsharp013]

@Nikita
Have you ever sat down and read the 'Patriot Act'?

[titey]

Sorry.... I'm not a registered voter. :P

[J'Pol]

Patriots Act (http://personalinfomediary.com/USAPATRIOTACT_Text.htm)

[Snee]

It does seem as things aren't the way they ought to be in the US.

Can't do better than that, sorry nik, no firsthand experience.

:P I could post a pic of Peta Wilson wearing only boots and a chair, but I don't think it would contribute to the discussion.

[bigboab]

Aves have the only bill of rights that cannot be rescinded.

[titey]

Originally posted by SnnY@27 September 2003 - 14:23
:P I could post a pic of Peta Wilson wearing only boots and a chair, but I don't think it would contribute to the discussion.
:unsure: Pardon my ignorance.... but how does one wear a chair?

[razorsharp013]

Originally posted by JPaul@27 September 2003 - 15:21
Patriots Act (http://personalinfomediary.com/USAPATRIOTACT_Text.htm)
Thanks JP.
Here's another: http://www.bordc.org/

[Snee]

Aves=Birds :blink:

@razor: I haven't been able to see your avatar for a couple of hours, is it missing?

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

:P Fuck the Bill of Rights. :P

:D All I know is I still would not want to be in any other Countrie then where I am now. :D

[nikita69]

Originally posted by razorsharp013@28 September 2003 - 02:17
@Nikita
Have you ever sat down and read the 'Patriot Act'?
yes I have. :)

[bigboab]

Originally posted by titey+27 September 2003 - 20:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (titey @ 27 September 2003 - 20:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SnnY@27 September 2003 - 14:23
:P I could post a pic of Peta Wilson wearing only boots and a chair, but I don&#39;t think it would contribute to the discussion.
:unsure: Pardon my ignorance.... but how does one wear a chair? [/b][/quote]
[QUOTE]

Duly pardoned. :P

Is it not possible to wear a seat like a chairman. :P

[ilw]

Pardon my ignorance.... but how does one wear a chair?

http://www.beachcomber.com/Gadget/Outdoor/Bechair/Graphics/poster.jpg
hope that helps

[Rappy]

we get some freedoms but not everything the government seems to screw us over someway still following the bill or rights needs to be modified

[razorsharp013]

Originally posted by nikita69+27 September 2003 - 15:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nikita69 &#064; 27 September 2003 - 15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-razorsharp013@28 September 2003 - 02:17
@Nikita
Have you ever sat down and read the &#39;Patriot Act&#39;?
yes I have. :) [/b][/quote]
So then what are your observations and opinions?
Obviously, I voted no btw.

edit: To anyone who lives in the US and votes yes, I highly suggest you check out those links JPaul and I posted on the previous page.

[bigboab]

My turn for being ignorant. Who is Peta Wilson?

[razorsharp013]

Originally posted by SnnY@27 September 2003 - 15:27
Aves=Birds :blink:

@razor: I haven&#39;t been able to see your avatar for a couple of hours, is it missing?
Funny, it&#39;s ok on my end. Been ok all day.

[titey]

Originally posted by ilw@27 September 2003 - 14:30

Pardon my ignorance.... but how does one wear a chair?

http://www.beachcomber.com/Gadget/Outdoor/Bechair/Graphics/poster.jpg
hope that helps
:D Much obliged, ilw&#33;

[Snee]

@razor: Yep it&#39;s back here too, must have been something funky at my end.

@bigboab: the woman that used to be in Nikita&#39;s sig, at least I think that&#39;s her name.

Edit: @titey: She&#39;s more like sitting in it to be honest, poetic license etc.

[bigboab]

Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@27 September 2003 - 20:27
:P Fuck the Bill of Rights. :P

:D All I know is I still would not want to be in any other Countrie then where I am now. :D
[QUOTE]
I haven&#39;t laughed so many since I was a children at grammar school. :P

[titey]

Originally posted by bigboab@27 September 2003 - 14:32
My turn for being ignorant.
:P Oh.... are we taking turns now?How congenial&#33; http://www.piczonline.com/client/titey/happy.gif

[bigboab]

Originally posted by titey+27 September 2003 - 20:37--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (titey &#064; 27 September 2003 - 20:37)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-bigboab@27 September 2003 - 14:32
My turn for being ignorant.
:P Oh.... are we taking turns now?How congenial&#33; http://www.piczonline.com/client/titey/happy.gif
[/b][/quote]
[QUOTE]

I think in my case Titey it is congenital. :P :P :P

[nikita69]

razorsharp013, my observation/opinion is NO, the Bill of Rights has been and will continue to be tested to how far can they go from eliminating as much as they can (American Law Makers). but, i&#39;ll leave it to everyone to post their cast and for the one&#39;s who do not live in the US, u can still cast "(Non US person)". Also, the intention of this post is by no means to compare it to other countries, just in the USA. :)

[razorsharp013]

Originally posted by nikita69@27 September 2003 - 15:45
razorsharp013, my observation/opinion is NO, the Bill of Rights has been and will continue to be tested to how far can they go from eliminating as much as they can (American Law Makers). but, i&#39;ll leave it to everyone to post their cast and for the one&#39;s who do not live in the US, u can still cast "(Non US person)". Also, the intention of this post is by no means to compare it to other countries, just in the USA. :)
Well said Nikita. Though in my paranoid mind I fear our own government&#39;s - seemingly almost disdain for our constitutional rights, (as flawed as they may sometimes now be), runs even deeper than that.
I now stand aside for others.

[nikita69]

wow, only 16 voted&#33; :)

[razorsharp013]

Kind of sad isn&#39;t it?

[(>Zero Cool<)]

Originally posted by razorsharp013@28 September 2003 - 02:35
Kind of sad isn&#39;t it?
more like kind of 2 30 in the morning on this side of the pond not a lot of peeps up, and fewer sober ones. However I would have figured more of the folks from your side would have had an opinion, maybe that is where one of the problems lies, but that is another arguement for another time. :)

[nikita69]

well, maybe this will help.
The American way of life is based on fairness, justice and liberty for all. All of these virtues are at risk, not just from killers who would massacre innocent civilians, but from the federal government&#39;s rush to place security before liberty. In a world in which the president can simply sign orders creating military tribunals which bypass all constitutional and legal protections, the US Constitution and Bill of Rights are on trial.

[razorsharp013]

Anyone interested in the US governments rape of our civil liberties should read the following:

Bill of Rights Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

US Patriot Act Revision 203: Amends Foriegn Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) by eliminating the need for the FBI to show "probable cause" before conducting secret searches or surveillance to obtain evidence of a crime.

US Patriot Act Revision 213: Authority for delaying notice of the execution of a warrant (AKA "sneak and peak"): Permits the government to search your home with no one present and to delay notification indefinitely. Court may authorize delayed notification "if cthe court finds reasonable cause to believe that providing immediate notification...may have adverse result.

US Patriot Act Revision 411: Definitions relating to terrorism: Allows Secretary of State to designate ANY foreign OR domestic group that has engaged in a violent activity a "terrorist organization."

Amendment V: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...

US Patriot Act Revision: President Bush&#39;s Order Designating "Enemy Combatant": Allows commitee of attorney general, defense secretary, and CIA director to label citizens and noncitizens as "enemy combatants", placing them in military custody, holding them indefinitley, interrogating them, and denying themcommunication with outsiders or judicial review.

Those were just 3 small examples of what the ironicly named Patriot Act has done to the basic freedoms and liberties that this country was fouded upon.

For more info on this, go here:

USPA (http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism_militias/20011031_eff_usa_patriot_analysis.php)
and www.infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com)

And remember dissent is patriotic.

[Busyman]

I&#39;m with Capricorn.
I wouldn&#39;t want to be in any other country.
The pros outweigh the cons.
Alot of the advantages that we have that are defintely being tested, other countries don&#39;t have to begin with.
Our freedom is also our downfall in regards to crime, punishment, and the judicial system.
For instance, suspected terrorist Zaccarias Moussoui would probably be dead by now in most countries. but here, because our judicial system is based on protecting the innocent, we have a long drawn out legal process.

[Legends]

Here is what cracks me up in the area I live (in the US of course).

The amount of people who bitch about the freedoms being taken from them while they smoke a joint and drink a beer and download lots of things from the internet.

Hey, nobody is saying that the Bush Administration is "all that" or anything, just that hey we as Americans have maybe had it even a little too good and untill the lifestyle I and others lead starts changing, I must surmise that perhaps a lot of this type of duscussion is simply conjecture.

Lemme put it another way: A lot of people in my country just LOVE to bitch about something.

[Billy_Dean]

It has always struck me as odd that the US should stick so rigidly to a constitution that is over 200 years old, and drawn up in a time that was so much different to now. I believe constitutions should be rewritten every 100 years. If ever the US needed a new one, they surely do now&#33;


:)

[razorsharp013]

Originally posted by Legends@28 September 2003 - 01:57
A lot of people in my country just LOVE to bitch about something.
And that&#39;s one of the things that make this country great. We have the right to do so without fear of being labled a &#39;terrorist&#39; by our own elected officials and government. ...Well, at least not yet.

*sarcasm attached*

[nikita69]

I see an empire on the move, and Democracy is its sly new war cry. Democracy, home-delivered to your doorstep by daisy cutters.

[razorsharp013]

......Daisy cutters, and old glory. Just ask the now &#39;free&#39; citizens of the new empire...um um democracy...in Iraq.

[Rappy]

i agree the consitution should be rewritten every 50 years mabe but who shall rewrite it bush damn we would be screwed