Ethnicity in the BT world

[stopher54]

You know, something has always bothered me. Having spent an entire year immersed in this community, as well as spending some time moderating and running my own site, there is one thing I cannot put my finger on. It seems as if non-English speaking members of the community are more prone to trading, scamming, and ratio cheating.

Now, that is a broad statement, so let me refine it a bit. When I say non-English speakers, I mean people who may speak enough English to get by, but it clearly isn't their first language. Countries such as Israel, Egypt, Estonia, Romania, and several other middle eastern or eastern European countries are prime examples of this. Many of these countries have been IP banned from trackers altogether because of this generalization, so its an interesting thing to look at.

Is it because people from these areas of the world are more likely to leave morals at the door when on the internet? Or have we just gotten a bad group of people from these countries (and no others)? Also, is it just a coincidence, or is there also a lot of cyber crime in these areas in general (phishing, scamming, spyware, spam)? Perhaps it is a little deeper than that, but I'd like to know what you guys think.

[harshytkage]

Actually, i think it's their inablility to understang english itself and not heeding when someone tells them that trading's bad, I have no qualms since effectively English is my first language(i learnt my mother tongue After english, grew up in scotland XD), and i have no doubt i'm right, taking all my friends as an example i've seen frustratingly low levels of their ability to converse in english for even the simplest things,.

As for the Cyber Crime stuff, believe me it's just a case of some "evolved" people in a group of ignorant Neanderthals(technology know how wise). People here are just easier to take advantage of...
So that was the indian side of the story(i think)
P.S.- a guy i know just asked me if i had the "Pentium 5" yet, talk about living in the past...
P.P.S.- People here don't know what a GPU is, since most of em are on onboard(they don't know what that is either...)

Hope i cleared it up a bit for you!

[stoi]

I think part of the problem, and i do not mean any disrepect to anyone, but in some cultures, it is rude not to haggle when you buy something, so they bring that into the torrent world with them.

Trading = Haggling for the best site
Cheating = Haggling for the best ratio (not really i suppose, but i cant see many sysops asking,)

"OK, Where do you want the cut off point to be"
"0.1",
"nah, how about 0.8",
"0.5",
"0.7 take it or leave it".

I do think most understand exactly what it going on, surely Cheating is wrong full stop, wherever in the world you are, and trading, surely someone has said something on their local forums that trading is bad (not that most take any notice, but then thats my point)

[The_Martinator]

I agree with stoi on this one, especially when considering some African countries. I wouldn't say that for Romania, etc. There it's more of a language barrier issue, like harshy said, but it's not what the OP asked, right?

Or it could be just the mentality that nothing is free (capitalism will do that to you :()

[Polarbear]

When you take a closer look you'll see that countries from where the most online fraud originate are also IP range banned on many trackers.

These countries are indeed all non english speaking.

On the other hand amongst countries where the least internet fraud originate are many non english ones as well.

So it's not really a matter of english being your first language.

In fact when you compare the "good" and "bad" countries you'll see, that the social and economic differences are more significant.

The top ten cheating nations all have a lower income, lower level of education and often an undemocratic or unstable political system. Eastern european and islamic countries for instance are always in the fraud stats top ten.

The good ones are all countries with a high per capita income, democratic governments and a western orientated culture and society.

[ricky01]

yes sure its a culture thing, just look at the news any ways, people like madoff and stanford running ponzi schemes from continent of africa, cheating people to the tune of billions, look at firms like AIG( AFRICAN INSURANCE GROUP) in a socialist economy of africa , wasted away billions without any fear since they knew they will get 150 billion dollars in state help for free. if only this companies where in free and capitalist economy of usa and all other english speaking countries, what example they set for their culture, cheating and getting everything for free!! damm this socalist countries!!

[TP635]

Please note that there are only 5 English speaking countries in this world; USA Canada, GB, Aus. NZ. So the chance of cheat coming from 'others' is statistically more.

[1000possibleclaws]

Please note that there are only 5 English speaking countries in this world; USA Canada, GB, Aus. NZ. So the chance of cheat coming from 'others' is statistically more.

Just off the top of my head you forgot about S Africa, Singapore, and Jamaica.


There are tons of officially English speaking countries, although I guess alot of them are pretty small/ are third world : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_English_is_an_official_language

[TP635]

Please note that there are only 5 English speaking countries in this world; USA Canada, GB, Aus. NZ. So the chance of cheat coming from 'others' is statistically more.

Just off the top of my head you forgot about S Africa, Singapore, and Jamaica.


There are tons of officially English speaking countries, although I guess alot of them are pretty small/ are third world : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_English_is_an_official_language

I know what you mean, most Commonwealth countries have English as one of its Official language. That does not make English the mother tongue of the people.

[sez]

i think part of the problem, and i do not mean any disrepect to anyone, but in some cultures, it is rude not to haggle when you buy something
:d:d:d:d

[IdolEyes787]

I think part of the problem, and i do not mean any disrepect to anyone, but in some cultures, it is rude not to haggle when you buy something, so they bring that into the torrent world with them.

Trading = Haggling for the best site
Cheating = Haggling for the best ratio (not really i suppose, but i cant see many sysops asking,)

"OK, Where do you want the cut off point to be"
"0.1",
"nah, how about 0.8",
"0.5",
"0.7 take it or leave it".

I do think most understand exactly what it going on, surely Cheating is wrong full stop, wherever in the world you are, and trading, surely someone has said something on their local forums that trading is bad (not that most take any notice, but then thats my point)

I always thought that it was cultural more than anything.Certainly nothing to do with language .
The problem becomes even harder to solve then because is you are trying to enforce your morality on people that just don't see things the same way as you do.(Tell a gypsy that it is wrong to steal or an Afghan that woman are equal and see how much understanding you get )
Unfortunatelyno amount of arguing is going to change someone's actions if they are operating from the premise that what they are doing is rightfully how it's suppose to be done.

[mrnobody]

It seems as if non-English speaking members of the community are more prone to trading, scamming, and ratio cheating.

It also seems that all blacks like chicken, all asians are good in maths, and all whites party but needless to say that is false.

Seriously, since whey did language, a mere mean of communication, effect on how people behave? I speak 3 different intl. languages, and half a dozen dialects (no kidding) and from what I notice they are pretty much the same. They all seem to have similar grammar , sentence structure, and stuff like. So i have no clue how it could have an impact on how people behave on the interwebz.


Countries such as Israel, Egypt, Estonia, Romania, and several other middle eastern or eastern European countries are prime examples of this.

Majority of the filesharing traffic comes from countries such as US, UK, and several other eastern countries and because filesharing is illegal in those countries i conclude they are all immoral, menthol law breakers lolwhat.


Is it because people from these areas of the world are more likely to leave morals at the door when on the internet?

What exactly is so called "morals"? Who defines it? So called "English speaking people" or "non-English speaking people"? Girls wearing miniskirts is porlly not immoral to you but there are severals that see it as one. Like wise, gay relationship, cousin marriage, untouchability and castism is prolly immoral to you but there is a whole world to whom it is not immoral.

Similarly who gets to define trading is moral or immoral? The "English speaking" tracker i suppose.

No offense like, but all i see in your post is this (http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/according-to-americans.jpg).


When you take a closer look you'll see that countries from where the most online fraud originate

i'm not so sure but that would be Chinease? Same Chinease that are vast minority in NASA and have a fair share of doctors in States.



I always thought that it was cultural more than anything.Certainly nothing to do with language .
The problem becomes even harder to solve then because is you are trying to enforce your morality on people that just don't see things the same way as you do.(Tell a gypsy that it is wrong to steal or an Afghan that woman are equal and see how much understanding you get )
Unfortunatelyno amount of arguing is going to change someone's actions if they are operating from the premise that what they are doing is rightfully how it's suppose to be done.

what she said.

[ovisan]

Good post squirr3l mate.
Its quite funny saying that non-English speakers are more prone to trading/cheating, its like saying that all English speakers are fat bastards.
I have loads to add to this thread but its a bit late and I got to wake early in the morning, so I m off to bed for now.

And btw, OP, I m pretty sure you own a very bad tracker :)
laters

[sez]

what morals are you talking about?have you thought of the fact that piracy too is a vice,did you know that in some circles we are put together on the same boat as scammers and phishers?AnYWHO....

Crash.(2004).DVDRip.XviD-SUM
http://i39.tinypic.com/2jdfjeq.jpg

~~~~~~I N F O M A T I O N ~~~~~~~


REL.DATE.: 2005. 08.19

DVD.DATE.: XXXX. XX.XX

GENRE....: Drama / Crime / Mystery

VIDEO....: XviD @ 747 Kbps

AUDIO....: MP3 VBR @ 105 Kbps

VIDEO RES: 2.35 :1 @ 576 x240

LANGUAGE.: English

SUBTITLE.: English

RUNTIME..: 113 Mins

RATING...: 8.6 /10(11 , 052 votes)

SIZE.....: CD1 50 x15 MB

URL... http://www.imdb. com/title/tt0375679
nfo:http://tinypaste.com/pre.php?id=17d2d
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http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6268/post2042.jpg
"Crash" has no conclusion. The conclusion is to equate it to life. There will never be a direct conclusion when it comes to issues of racism,discrimination,bigotry or whatever you wanna call it.

This movie is really interesting as it focuses on the lives of different characters and each character links to one another in some way.
The main theme is that of racism but extends to other forms of prejudice.

A few characters in the movie, like Sandra Bullock's and Matt Dillon's are racist. They do not trust Black people or Latinos.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/882/004cshsandrabullock001.jpg
Sandra Bullock and her husband, played by Brendan Fraser get robbed by 2 black men. She gets angry and believes that her all along fear for black people was indeed justified after all.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4681/004cshmichaelpena001.jpg
She then also gets adamant that his husband change the locks in their house for the second time come morning after new ones just got placed because the previous locks were fixed by a Latino man a race she has her own reservations for.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6442/004cshterrencehoward001.jpghttp://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7798/crashfree4.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2383/004cshthandienewton003.jpg
Matt Dillon's cop character pulls over terrence howard(profiles him) then molests his wife infront of him because he was angry at another black woman who denied his father the required operation for his prostate problem. But if you look at it,Matt Dillon had always been very rude to that lady and had often angered her with his racist remarks. However later on, Matt Dillon ends up saving the very same black woman that he molested in that car crash.
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7631/004cshthandienewton008.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/318/004cshmattdillon014.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5707/004cshthandienewton011.jpg
The lady molested by Matt Dillon of course gets angry with her husband for not standing up for her.Its one of the most embarrassing moments as terrence howard just stands there feeling powerless being as this cop mishandles his wife and i also remember asking myself what would i have done if i were him and i honestly don't know.I mean this cop is a racist and he has a gun.Him he chose to keep on apologizing for whatever reasons and you really felt sorry for him.Anyways its one of those moments that weak tear ducts should keep away from.

Another part of the movie worth remembering was when Terence Howard tells Ludacris (stole Sandra Bullock's car) that he embarrassed all black men by his activities. "You embarrassed me. You embarrassed yourself."
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8079/crash06.jpg
What one black man does, indirectly makes other people stereotype other black men:racism...but sadly it happens.Like when some white suburban women cling to their purses whenever they pass by black men(there is a very funny scene about this by the way involving luda and larenz tate,its right before they hijack sandra's ride).
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/80/004cshludacris001.jpg

Another part was when Ryan Phillippe shot another black man. He was convinced (because of stereotype again) that that guy was pulling out a gun, when in fact, he was just pulling out a jesus piece if I'm not mistaken.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1497/004cshryanphillippe009.jpg

and there were a whole host of other similar scenarios if you can get teh flick but i think you get the point.

[stopher54]

Squirr3l -

I should make a distinction here. My main point and emphasis was on the fact that there are a larger number of traders and scammers coming from that region of the world than anywhere else. All of your arguments are very off-topic, but I'll digress and give them credence.



Majority of the filesharing traffic comes from countries such as US, UK, and several other eastern countries and because filesharing is illegal in those countries i conclude they are all immoral, menthol law breakers lolwhat.
Thats true, but reread the topic. I only say that there are a large number of traders, scammers, etc coming out of these regions.



What exactly is so called "morals"? Who defines it? So called "English speaking people" or "non-English speaking people"? Girls wearing miniskirts is porlly not immoral to you but there are severals that see it as one. Like wise, gay relationship, cousin marriage, untouchability and castism is prolly immoral to you but there is a whole world to whom it is not immoral.

Similarly who gets to define trading is moral or immoral? The "English speaking" tracker i suppose.
Thats just semantics. You never address what this topic is about.



i'm not so sure but that would be Chinease? Same Chinease that are vast minority in NASA and have a fair share of doctors in States.
The Chinese and Russians are indeed big cyber-crime wise, but a lot of the lower level crime (spam, web vandalism, hacking for fame) come from the countries I mentioned.



what she said.
She is supporting my viewpoint by saying its a cultural thing.


And Ovisan, lets keep this discussion on-topic. I did not mean to offend anyone if I did.

And sez, I have seen Crash many times. And you're making the same point as Squirr3l, which is irrelevant to this topic. By "morals", I'm speaking relative to the BT world, where many people take the "moral" high ground by not trading/scamming/ratio cheating.

[sear]

@sez, that's a sad fucking movie...way to bring me down :(

EDIT:

on topic I've always been of the view that a lot of cheaters come from these countries because they have shittier internet connections which makes surviving on private trackers that much harder though I'm sure that's not the only reason. It also has a lot to do with their local net scene. A while back Israelis got a reputation for cheating because a lot of their torrent boards had lots of cheaters on them telling everyone how good it is. When you're new to torrenting it's easy to get sidetracked into cheating/trading/scamming as you don't see the importance of doing the right thing. I'm just guessing but I think peer influence would have a bit to do with it.

[TP635]

a lot of cheaters come from these countries because they have shittier internet connections which makes surviving on private trackers that much harder

+1
The temptation to cheat is greater when you have a 20 kbs upload speed.

[n00bz0r]

a lot of cheaters come from these countries because they have shittier internet connections which makes surviving on private trackers that much harder

+1
The temptation to cheat is greater when you have a 20 kbs upload speed.

i have had speeds worse than that.. :yup:
and have a ratio better than most guys wid megabit connections on trackers like what.cd, which have complex cheat detection algos..
anyway, getting back on topic..
diversity has led to creation of huge libraries abd repositories of rare content on tracker like what and waffles, which survive on user contributed uploads.

bbiab to continue wid this post.. :happy:

[D-U-D-E]

I agree with sear, most of the cheaters arise from these countries as their net speeds are very low and the trackers pressurises to maintain the ratio 1:1 (except very few trackers who dont have ratio, but very hard to get in there), as a result they resort to cheating cause they want to survive along with the guys who have stable and good connection and even when they ask any help from the guys who have a seedbox(do not mean all are same) to buffer and so maintain some ratio , their request(they request as their financial status wont be as good as other countries to afford for a vps spending $$, they hardly have enough money saved after paying all the bills) get denied many times as many people think "why should i help them, he hasnt done anything to me?"(not to be rude, but ill make my point, they might even think that those people are inferior to me) and finally they dont have any choice either to get disabled on the tracker or use some means to survive , all prefer to survive rather than dying in real life too so they resort to other means which can keep them alive on trackers.

Trading:
I dont have any comments on this, as this part of the BT is lame, it happens all cause of the levels made by us and all want those "high level" trackers just cause of their reputation, if they dont get it their way, they go to the "darkside" and try to get in especially the newbs as they will be in a hurry to get in that and this asap and "kick ass"
My final conclusion is that cheating might be from the countries he mentioned cause of the net problems, but traders and scammers are equal in all countries irrespective of the language they speak

PS:Even i have a bad connection , but i was lucky enough to get into ratioless trackers without any difficulty and have good friends who helped me a lot, patience is the virtue :)

[Cabalo]

I'm just guessing but I think peer influence would have a bit to do with it.
That's true, combined with some specific country/zones tendences.
as someone said, certain cultures are prone to bartering, haggling, trading, etc. it's even a way of life.
I've been to a couple of those countries, and the "trade" is a ritual, it goes even with tea. It's fantastic, in a PoV of a western european like i am.
so, it's very natural it has a splash effect on everything, and that includes the interwebz business.
That's why you will find certain countries mentioned above, like Egypt, Israel, KSA, etc with a lot of traders. It's in their blood, and you can't take the culture out of the individual.

then comes the cheating sub-culture.
subverting the institutionalized rules and gaining some kind of advantage is always something the human nature procures.
And when to this scenario you add the human laziness and the lack of conditions to easily achieve a decent standing in a tracker, ratio wise, then certain conditions are met for a new cheater to be born.
Actually, last time i read, the biggest cheating community was german. So it kinda defeats some of the arguments i employed above, but emphasizes one of them: the human laziness.

Luckily here in one year time, the installation of optic fibre will be finished, and many users will migrate to the 100/10, 50/4 and 30/3 dowload/upload plans, together with current ADSL and cable connections with 1mb or 2mb up, making life easier on the users.
we can't complain around here :noes:

[mrnobody]

Countries such as Israel, Egypt, Estonia, Romania, and several other middle eastern or eastern European countries are prime examples of this.


Majority of the filesharing traffic comes from countries such as US, UK, and several other eastern countries and because filesharing is illegal in those countries i conclude they are all immoral, menthol law breakers lolwhat.


Thats true.

i was merely trying to mimic statement of yours. It's hilarious that you agree all americans are immoral, menthol lawbreakers though :glag:



She is supporting my viewpoint by saying its a cultural thing.

ory?
How come you never mentioned 'culture' in your opening post. You were too busy detailing how English language is superior to others or something.

[D-U-D-E]

lol owned!

[stopher54]

She is supporting my viewpoint by saying its a cultural thing.

ory?
How come you never mentioned 'culture' in your opening post. You were too busy detailing how English language is superior to others or something.
That is how you interpreted it, but not what I meant.

The topic title is "Ethnicity in the BT world", not "Language in the BT world". I meant non-English speaking people to mean people that live in non-Western cultures.

Haha, the issue on whether or not piracy is immoral is for another topic. Americans aren't any better than anyone else when it comes to that, but once again, off-topic.

[IdolEyes787]

ory?
How come you never mentioned 'culture' in your opening post. You were too busy detailing how English language is superior to others or something.
That is how you interpreted it, but not what I meant.

The topic title is "Ethnicity in the BT world", not "Language in the BT world". I meant non-English speaking people to mean people that live in non-Western cultures.


That fact was obvious to me stopher . Speaking the language and understanding the nuances are two different things.

[sez]

I really don't understand what your intentions were with this thread maybe that's why i responded as i did + your responses being all over the place makes me think you already lost the purpose.anyways a while back there was an almost similar thread
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-are-you-afraid-take-chances-people-349211/page7
^^and that's where i drew my pov about your thread.

But like cabalo said,ratio cheating is widely understood to have come from germany,xxxxxxx,the forum that avails all these modded torrent clients that you hear about is in germany and am sure alot of germans use it,so its not a culture issue unless you wanna say its immigrants that occupy and run that site.And for what its worth,the scene(where stuff on your torrent site comes from)is largely made up of people from these non-english speaking countries and i think just by virtue of that you owe em a little more respect than mass generalization.
Finally,i keep telling people that BT is broadly made up of bad users(and that's the majority) and if you want stats to back that up,just imagine what could push a tracker to an extent that it decides to disable invites completely to anyone(HDbits) and then how successful this policy has proven to be in dealing with the issue of traders and sellers,now i won't say that the populace of this tracker is comprised of bad users but sometimes you gotta wonder as to how correct this assumption has proven to be.

[Villalltheway]

crap thread maybe because majority of the world 1st language is not English.

[susiserken]

Romanians are not only scums online they are also scum in real life!

[Louie]

Romanians are not only scums online they are also scum in real life!


Elektronik.ro is awesome for that the have awesome discography packs wich are also on free leech.

:blink:

[IdolEyes787]

Actually its funny that a thread that is basically about intolerance degenerates into ethnic slurs.





Well not funny exactly.

[sear]

:rolleyes: Typical bloody American trying to bring racism into everything. Can't a man denigrate the culture of another man in a completely non homosexual way without being accused of being racist?

I just don't know what the world is coming to these days /me shakes head

p.s. this thread is a piece of shite

[sez]

:rolleyes: Typical bloody American trying to bring racism into everything. Can't a man denigrate the culture of another man in a completely non homosexual way without being accused of being racist?

I just don't know what the world is coming to these days /me shakes head

p.s. this thread is a piece of shite

Its ok,i also don't like the idea of men making out with other men,i recall how grossed out i was when i saw this episode of brothers and sisters....even though they were acting it was still gross..but i hear we are supposed to hate the act not the fagism.In iran they get hanged and i think that's more than enough torture so i try to embrace them.You should too :).

[IdolEyes787]

You watched Brothers and Sisters?:glag:



:ghey:

[sez]

You watched Brothers and Sisters?:glag:



:ghey:

he stopped after S01E02..got too fagedy so..but its a nice fam drama if you can stand it,i know a good number of people who can't wait for season 4 including you i suspect
:lookaroun

[sear]

:rolleyes:

[TheFoX]

Please note that there are only 5 English speaking countries in this world; USA Canada, GB, Aus. NZ. So the chance of cheat coming from 'others' is statistically more.

Ironic that GB should be listed third, considering that this is where the language originated from. I should also point out that the other countries use English under license.

I should also point out that in many parts of the US, the language has been basterdised so much that it is hardly recogniseable as English any more, often sounding more like French or Spanish, which is also used under license.

(It's amazing that language isn't governed by Copyright Law. The RIAA would have a field day suing people)

[sez]

Please note that there are only 5 English speaking countries in this world; USA Canada, GB, Aus. NZ. So the chance of cheat coming from 'others' is statistically more.

Ironic that GB should be listed third, considering that this is where the language originated from. I should also point out that the other countries use English under license.

I should also point out that in many parts of the US, the language has been basterdised so much that it is hardly recogniseable as English any more, often sounding more like French or Spanish, which is also used under license.

(It's amazing that language isn't governed by Copyright Law. The RIAA would have a field day suing people)

lulz english is german :P
http://chacha.com/question/where-did-the-english-language-come-from

[patiesmiz]

It also seems that all blacks like chicken, all asians are good in maths, and all whites party but needless to say that is false.

Seriously, since whey did language, a mere mean of communication, effect on how people behave? I speak 3 different intl. languages, and half a dozen dialects (no kidding) and from what I notice they are pretty much the same. They all seem to have similar grammar , sentence structure, and stuff like. So i have no clue how it could have an impact on how people behave on the interwebz.


Countries such as Israel, Egypt, Estonia, Romania, and several other middle eastern or eastern European countries are prime examples of this.

Majority of the filesharing traffic comes from countries such as US, UK, and several other eastern countries and because filesharing is illegal in those countries i conclude they are all immoral, menthol law breakers lolwhat.


Is it because people from these areas of the world are more likely to leave morals at the door when on the internet?

What exactly is so called "morals"? Who defines it? So called "English speaking people" or "non-English speaking people"? Girls wearing miniskirts is porlly not immoral to you but there are severals that see it as one. Like wise, gay relationship, cousin marriage, untouchability and castism is prolly immoral to you but there is a whole world to whom it is not immoral.

Similarly who gets to define trading is moral or immoral? The "English speaking" tracker i suppose.

No offense like, but all i see in your post is this (http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/according-to-americans.jpg).


"I couldn't agree more

[buggyfresh]

Please note that there are only 5 English speaking countries in this world; USA Canada, GB, Aus. NZ. So the chance of cheat coming from 'others' is statistically more.

?! :blink: lmao

Anyway i agree a bit with what Polar Bear said earlier - the trend of cheating in certain non-english speaking countries tht is seen in BT world has mostlyto do with the fact that the users in these countries like Brasil, Romania, Egypt etc have a higher number of impoverished, lower-income folk (vs the not-banned countries), who most importantly have internet access. There are plenty other low-income groups/countries eg Sudan Haiti etc but the folk there have more serious issues than finding a PC and cheating to download movies nightly. The cheaters we know in cyberspace are so used to hustling in real life they carry it into cyberspace. I still don't really support country-banning myself though as good ppl suffer.

[QPD]

You know, something has always bothered me. Having spent an entire year immersed in this community, as well as spending some time moderating and running my own site, there is one thing I cannot put my finger on. It seems as if non-English speaking members of the community are more prone to trading, scamming, and ratio cheating.

Now, that is a broad statement, so let me refine it a bit. When I say non-English speakers, I mean people who may speak enough English to get by, but it clearly isn't their first language. Countries such as Israel, Egypt, Estonia, Romania, and several other middle eastern or eastern European countries are prime examples of this. Many of these countries have been IP banned from trackers altogether because of this generalization, so its an interesting thing to look at.

Is it because people from these areas of the world are more likely to leave morals at the door when on the internet? Or have we just gotten a bad group of people from these countries (and no others)? Also, is it just a coincidence, or is there also a lot of cyber crime in these areas in general (phishing, scamming, spyware, spam)? Perhaps it is a little deeper than that, but I'd like to know what you guys think.

First of all I want to congratulate you for starting this topic,I can easily realise that you are sincere in finding a more accurate answer(even if it is impossible to analyse and summarise everything in a single quote)
This is not the first time I respond to a such question,this time I feel that somebody might even hear me.

"Is it because people from these areas of the world are more likely to leave morals at the door when on the internet?"

Usually people see the internet like Alice saw her Wondeland.They clame to be something they are not ( but they would like to be) .People lie on the internet no mather what language they speak.

"Or have we just gotten a bad group of people from these countries (and no others)?"
Speaking about Romania I can tell you that the majority people are poor.We are smart , and fast learning but cheating is like a disease.I was disappointed many times about my fellow romanians,but It was not my decision to be born here,instead it is my decision to be as good as I can be every day,and there are a lot of people like me here.Remember that if you don;t give us any chance..we won;t have any chance.Sooner or later we will rise the standards also, but it is easyer with some help from you guys.

I met scum people in civilised countries who are not worthy enough to even untie my laces.I've been in a lot of countries.Bad and good are everywhere,but remember my words: It's easyer to be bad in a good country than beeing good in a bad country.You should help those who try to be good instead of slaughtering them with the others-that of course would require sacrifices form you,but what would you care about anything else but your own well?

One more thing.I don;'t belive it's about barging: I was in Nepal a few months ago.Very poor country, where bargain is a national hobby, yet they do not steal,even form strangers.My sony vaio laptop was unatended for days and nobody took it.


Romanians are not only scums online they are also scum in real life!

Did you meet all the romanians?Gipsyes are not romanians-remember that!!!
I am a romanian and I bet you did't reach the knowledge i did.And i have more than perfect references.Be wise and do not blame an entire country otherwhise you are nto better than Hitler,or Pol Pot.It was not my call to be born here.I try to be as moral as a man can be everyday.It's a struggle in my society where everything is corrupt.Do you think you can do it better???I invite you over here.Then you can blame.


Sorry for my english...

[stoi]

One more thing.I don;'t belive it's about barging: I was in Nepal a few months ago.Very poor country, where bargain is a national hobby, yet they do not steal,even form strangers.My sony vaio laptop was unatended for days and nobody took it.

What i meant was with the bartering side, was the trading that goes on.

its part and parcel of getting something in some cultures.

buy something, it says 10 on the label, you say 4, owner says 8 you say 6 he says done.

its basically the same with trading for trackers. as in the same metality goes into it.

it had nothing to do with stealing or cheating. thats just basically they hate seeding back and want everything for nothing, so cheat to get it.

bottom line is though, every country trades and cheats, you just tend to see more of it from the countries that have been banned on trackers, whether thats because of culture, or the fact they are just not very good at it and get caught more is another thing.

[Floydian]

It also seems that all blacks like chicken, all asians are good in maths, and all whites party but needless to say that is false.

Seriously, since whey did language, a mere mean of communication, effect on how people behave? I speak 3 different intl. languages, and half a dozen dialects (no kidding) and from what I notice they are pretty much the same. They all seem to have similar grammar , sentence structure, and stuff like. So i have no clue how it could have an impact on how people behave on the interwebz.



Majority of the filesharing traffic comes from countries such as US, UK, and several other eastern countries and because filesharing is illegal in those countries i conclude they are all immoral, menthol law breakers lolwhat.


Is it because people from these areas of the world are more likely to leave morals at the door when on the internet?

What exactly is so called "morals"? Who defines it? So called "English speaking people" or "non-English speaking people"? Girls wearing miniskirts is porlly not immoral to you but there are severals that see it as one. Like wise, gay relationship, cousin marriage, untouchability and castism is prolly immoral to you but there is a whole world to whom it is not immoral.

Similarly who gets to define trading is moral or immoral? The "English speaking" tracker i suppose.

No offense like, but all i see in your post is this (http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/according-to-americans.jpg).


"I couldn't agree more
+1

I live in Brazil. My country is banned in a few pvt trackers (TorrentBytes, Scenesound...) because they say there are too many cheaters here, and I agree.

The problem is, getting a good internet connection here is VERY expensive. Just so you know, our minimum wage is about 220usd. My adsl is 4mbit/400k, it costs about 80usd/month, and I share it with my brother and my sister (each one of us has a pc). Can you imagine how hard it is to mantain a good ratio using this speed and sharing with 3 people? So, to solve the problem, I start using seedboxes.

That's why there are so many cheaters in Brazil. People usually download fast and upload at very low speed rates, so they cheat to maintain the ratio. It has absolutely nothing to do with non english speaking countries.

About the bargaining issue in some countries, I can't even remotely think that has anything to do with the "problem"...

[TP635]

It also seems that all blacks like chicken, all asians are good in maths, and all whites party but needless to say that is false.

Seriously, since whey did language, a mere mean of communication, effect on how people behave? I speak 3 different intl. languages, and half a dozen dialects (no kidding) and from what I notice they are pretty much the same. They all seem to have similar grammar , sentence structure, and stuff like. So i have no clue how it could have an impact on how people behave on the interwebz.



Majority of the filesharing traffic comes from countries such as US, UK, and several other eastern countries and because filesharing is illegal in those countries i conclude they are all immoral, menthol law breakers lolwhat.



What exactly is so called "morals"? Who defines it? So called "English speaking people" or "non-English speaking people"? Girls wearing miniskirts is porlly not immoral to you but there are severals that see it as one. Like wise, gay relationship, cousin marriage, untouchability and castism is prolly immoral to you but there is a whole world to whom it is not immoral.

Similarly who gets to define trading is moral or immoral? The "English speaking" tracker i suppose.

No offense like, but all i see in your post is this (http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/according-to-americans.jpg).


"I couldn't agree more
+1

I live in Brazil. My country is banned in a few pvt trackers (TorrentBytes, Scenesound...) because they say there are too many cheaters here, and I agree.

The problem is, getting a good internet connection here is VERY expensive. Just so you know, our minimum wage is about 220usd. My adsl is 4mbit/400k, it costs about 80usd/month, and I share it with my brother and my sister (each one of us has a pc). Can you imagine how hard it is to mantain a good ratio using this speed and sharing with 3 people? So, to solve the problem, I start using seedboxes.

That's why there are so many cheaters in Brazil. People usually download fast and upload at very low speed rates, so they cheat to maintain the ratio. It has absolutely nothing to do with non english speaking countries.

About the bargaining issue in some countries, I can't even remotely think that has anything to do with the "problem"...

Linking low bandwidth to cheat is not necessarily true. In my country a 4mb/400kb line does not even exist for home connection. I use a 520kb/250kb pack and can still have good ratio in tracker that have NO FRELEECH or seeding bonus. Having said that, I prefer trackers that have seeding bonus and I just seed until my PS burn off.

I think the answer to why a large group of people from a particular country cheat, is more complex than just slow line or bargaining 'culture' or language problem or even all of the above reasons. And I do not know the answer.

[manu1991]

Maybe because in these countries using public trackers is commonplace , since there isnt any RIAA/MPAA lurking , so after using public trackers for so long , they expect the same from private trackers (only leeching) . In countries like the US/UK etc. , people have been forced to migrate to private trackers for a long time and hence maybe are better adjusted to private tracker rules

P.S. - Ok , this sounds a bit stupid :P

[patiesmiz]

Maybe because in these countries using public trackers is commonplace , since there isnt any RIAA/MPAA lurking , so after using public trackers for so long , they expect the same from private trackers (only leeching) .


That could be a reason. To share copyrighted stuff for personal use is a totally legal activity in my country (Spain) but, on the other hand, private Spanish sites have a very high ratio requirements and ratio cheaters are not tolerated, plus never heard of any private tracker where Spain is banned.
But most ppl here use public trackers where there are no punishment for having a low ratio.
We usually use public trackers here and most ppl, after joining private sites, tend to get disapointed because of the ratio rules and because public trackers have much more content, torrents are much more active and old torrents last much longer, plain and simple.

Honestly, I don't have any idea about why there are more cheaters on some countries, and dunno if that is like that or not since can't figure out how that can be contabilized.

Personally I have heard of cheaters from many countries, the USA and the UK included. And I guess that the reason is that to be or not to be a cheater -in general terms- has nothing to do with the nationality.