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SonsOfLiberty
08-09-2009, 02:47 AM
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/picture.php?albumid=25&pictureid=2114

Microsoft has a problem on its hands. Or more precisely one problem with three seemingly contradictory components:


1. Windows XP is too good for its own good.
2. It needs to die for the company's sake.
3. It won't die because nothing else -- not even Windows 7 -- currently approaches it.

We're closing in on eight years since XP first hit the market and began the long process of making us finally forget we ever used Windows 95, 98, and Windows Me. By anyone's standards, it's been one of Microsoft's most visibly successful products. It still runs on some 60% of all PCs years after it was supposed to have been retired as a front-line offering. It's sold around 800 million copies since its initial release. And if piracy is the sincerest form of flattery, hundreds of millions more illegal copies are in use across the globe. In an age where icons are in desperately short supply, this is as iconic a product as it gets.

The problem with XP is this: The longer it sticks around and continues to tug at the heartstrings of end-users and corporate IT decision-makers alike, the bigger a drag it becomes on Microsoft's bottom line. For a company accustomed to earning triple-digit revenue from every OS it sells, Microsoft can't be pleased with the paltry $30 or so it makes from each retail sale of XP. Although Microsoft obviously recognizes that $300 netbooks and $400-to-$500 mainstream laptops mean the good old days of high margin OS sales are over, it still wants us to add Windows 7 to our wish list to continue to drive its Windows revenue stream, albeit at a reduced rate.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, buyers don't seem to have latched on to the need to upgrade. If it ain't broke, the saying goes, don't fix it. And XP ain't broke by a longshot, so cost-sensitive consumer and enterprise buyers don't have much incentive to make the jump just yet. Like Vista before it, they'll get a new OS when they buy new hardware or refresh their client environments. But as long as they're either filing for unemployment benefits or laying off workers, new hardware won't be their top priority. Even if they're still gainfully employed, upgrading will take a back seat to keeping their heads above water.

Increasingly, a marginally more capable new technology platform is seen as a want and not a need. As good as Windows 7 seems to be, Microsoft needs to convince the rest of the world that it offers more than a marginally better value proposition for recession-weary buyers.

Microsoft's value proposition for Vista -- more features, more capability -- was hatched when market conditions were significantly more positive than they are now. The message has fallen largely flat in an era when consumers are increasingly questioning whether bigger really is better. The positioning of Windows 7 as a leaner and meaner alternative that plays just as nicely with low-end netbooks as it does full-on workstations is designed to make us forget about the company's missteps in positioning Vista as the heir apparent. But in doing so, Microsoft has prompted a growing realization that it already has such a lean-and-mean, all-things-to-all-people product, and it's called Windows XP.

XP is a good enough operating system that despite early deservedly rave reviews of Windows 7 (and positive comments from Betanews), many friends and colleagues with whom I associate are quietly ignoring Windows 7, and hoping to stick with XP for as long as their current hardware holds out. If the Windows franchise has had a backbone through the somewhat stomach churning Vista era, XP has been it. It's not a product that will go quietly into the night.

Despite XP's position at the center of Microsoft's OS universe, though, it isn't immune to long-term reality. At some point, every OS fades from the landscape. Just last week, the ancient Compaq Contura 486-based laptop with the glorious trackball that I had been using as an occasional note-taking machine finally bit the dust, and the era of DOS 6 and Windows 3.1 came to an end for me. As ancient as this OS platform was, it just worked, and it fit the relatively simple needs that surrounded its continued, if dusty, existence.

Is XP Microsoft's saviour?

Windows XP isn't nearly so dusty, so it's infinitely more capable than my admittedly Pre-Cambrian Windows 3.1-based machine of existing on its own in a home or office setting in the absence of anything newer. It connects to the Internet, corporate network resources, and a large enough cross-section of PCs and peripherals. With a bit of administrative oversight to ensure all the latest patches, fixes, and updates are applied, it's relatively secure, too. And unlike most versions of Vista, XP runs nicely on all that older hardware still hanging around because recession-challenged end-users and IT shops believe they're too budget-challenged to replace it.

It's also given Microsoft critical momentum in the hardware industry's sole bright spot: netbooks. Microsoft may not enjoy sitting in the cheap seats, but XP's stopgap save in this market kept the Windows brand visible -- and relevant -- until Microsoft could come up with a longer term solution. If anything, someone owes XP a thank you.

We're barely a couple of months away from general availability for Windows 7. Even then, it'll take months before we know how successful it is. Microsoft's betting the company on this new OS because it has no choice. If it can't keep folks buying new versions of Windows, it'll need to find a new business to replace it, and fast. But the overwhelming success of its legacy XP brand, coupled with the market's newfound focus on frugality and sensibility, could derail this plan before it even gets off the ground.

The value proposition for Windows 7 needs to be compelling enough to get the legions of Windows XP users convinced that good enough is no longer good enough. That's easier said than done, and given XP's cockroach-like survival skills, it's anybody's guess as to whether Microsoft will be able to pull it off.

Windows XP SP3 runs browsers 13% faster than Windows 7 RTM

In a set of comprehensive Windows Web browser performance tests conducted by Betanews on August 7 -- our first test of browsers running on the final Windows 7 RTM Build 7600 distributed by Microsoft yesterday -- the five major families of browsers tended to run 13% faster on Windows XP Service Pack 3 than on Windows 7, and 29% faster than on Windows Vista Service Pack 2.

That reflects a decline in the speed gap between XP and Win7 of about 1%, from tests conducted comparing XP-based browsers to those running on Windows 7 Release Candidate Build 7100. Some browsers are faster in Windows 7 RTM, although Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2 ran just a tick slower.

Our latest complete round of tests shows Google Chrome 3 continuing to make phenomenal gains with each iteration, with developer channel build 196.2 posting another record Betanews index score of 18.96 in XP, and 16.09 in Win7. In other words, on the XP platform, Chrome 3 performs with the relative horsepower of about 19 Internet Explorer 7 browsers running on Vista SP2. There's good reason to believe Google wants Chrome 3 to run particularly well on the older XP platform, which has enjoyed a huge resurgence as a result of installations on netbooks where Vista would either under-perform or not even fit. Apple's Safari 4 build 530.19 is the next best performer on XP with a 16.16 score.

There are a handful of trends worth pointing out in this latest round:

* Apple Safari is also concentrating on XP, with a big performance gap between its XP score (16.16) and its Windows 7 score (12.58). On Vista, Safari 4 scores a 11.77.

* Opera 10 Beta 2 build 1691 is a speed leader in one and only one heat: page load times. For some reason, with Windows 7, Opera 10 blazes past the others, scoring 4.29 relative to IE7 on Vista on the rendering portion of our test suite, which counts toward 25% of the overall score. Safari 4 is second fastest on Win7 with 4.09, followed by Chrome 3 at 3.86. On Vista, the gap is closer with Opera 10 scoring 3.66 on the rendering test, versus 3.29 on Safari 4 and 3.23 on Chrome 3. But in the same test, Opera 10 crashes and burns on XP, scoring only 2.60 versus 4.33 and 4.46, respectively.

* Firefox may yet rival Chrome and Opera in the page rendering department, as speed gains that at one time were planned for version 3.5.1 now appear to be slated for version 3.6, whose development track has now been code-named "Namoroka." Were the latest preview build of the 3.6 alpha not loaded with error correction code -- if it performed as well in error tracking as does the current "Shiretoko" beta of 3.5.3 -- the 3.6 alpha would post Firefox's first solid index score over 10.0 on the Windows XP platform; as it stands, the 3.6 score is now 9.55 on XP versus 9.94 for the stable 3.5.2, and 9.96 for the beta of 3.5.2.

* The speed gap between Windows 7 and Vista is 17.1%, with Internet Explorer 8 scoring a 2.23 in Win7, reflecting a speed jump that's right in line with our geometrical mean. If you're running IE7 on Vista now, you should see 223% better performance from your browser when you upgrade to IE8 on Win7.

:source: Source: The OS That Just Won't Die (http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows-XP-forever-The-OS-that-just-wont-die/1249582039) | Windows XP Browser Tests (http://www.betanews.com/article/Windows-XP-SP3-runs-browsers-13-faster-than-Windows-7-RTM/1249687071)

megabyteme
08-09-2009, 03:25 AM
Very interesting articles, SOL. Thanks!

For me, Windows 7 falls in the category that more and more types of media are: I look forward to trying it, but I am not interested in it enough to buy it.

I do not have the same problems with software companies that I have with the recording and movie industries, but I don't place enough value on an OS to pay (much) for it. I cannot even say that I would place a higher value on it if I could not dl a free copy. For me, it is not an issue of availability- it is one of limited need or desire.

I think the article is right on. Regardless of money being tighter, we are getting to a point where our needs have been met. I find that to be a bit refreshing after the past couple of decades where things became obsolete so quickly.

iLOVENZB
08-09-2009, 05:52 AM
Well Microsoft's marketing has paid off since the XP days, now nobody want to convert.

I do believe Vista's had a huge impact for people not converting. Also hardware requirements (although not as bad as Vista) might be an issue for some.

Rart
08-09-2009, 07:13 PM
I have seen windows 7 work on all kinds of systems, its much easier on the system resources. But I think vista has left too much of a bad image for some.

SonsOfLiberty
08-09-2009, 07:15 PM
I didn't use Vista, so no bad taste in my mouth, 7 runs smooth as a baby's butt, but XP, from all the tests still out performs 7, yeah 7 might be faster/look pretty, but like the article says, XP still dominates.

tesco
08-09-2009, 07:17 PM
I didn't use Vista, so no bad taste in my mouth, 7 runs smooth as a baby's butt, but XP, from all the tests still out performs 7, yeah 7 might be faster/look pretty, but like the article says, XP still dominates.
ya and 98se outperforms XP... :P
People were saying that for years after XP was released. Finally they adopted XP.

SonsOfLiberty
08-09-2009, 07:26 PM
Yeah I know, but I "still" don't think XP is going anywhere, hell they add XP to the Windows 7 Ultimate via VM, so something must be good enuff for Windows 7 to have to OS's :lol:

colbert
08-10-2009, 12:18 AM
Good article on XP. I couldn't agree more.

Sporkk
08-10-2009, 02:17 AM
Is it possible to keep writing drivers for xp? I mean eventually if we want to use the full potential of new hardware we will have to upgrade.
I never had any problems with vista but after paying over 200 dollars (for one pc) for the full version I think I have donated enough money to microsoft.
Its still windows. Looks a little different, and seems to all run about the same speed to me. I think the issues are with the inner guts being compatible with new hardware if we stay with xp.

rippinitup4fun
08-10-2009, 03:17 AM
Is it possible to keep writing drivers for xp? I mean eventually if we want to use the full potential of new hardware we will have to upgrade.
I never had any problems with vista but after paying over 200 dollars (for one pc) for the full version I think I have donated enough money to microsoft.
Its still windows. Looks a little different, and seems to all run about the same speed to me. I think the issues are with the inner guts being compatible with new hardware if we stay with xp.

That is the Jist of it. Eventually any Windows user will have to make the switch due to hardware and eventually Software compatibility.

Whether Die hard Xp users like it or not eventually they will have to change. I am one of those, I guess, users. When it comes to fixing others PC/Laptops. I always put XP on it and highly disagree/reccomend against using Vista. I have also ran #7 myself and have put it onto a few laptops per request and find it is simply a tuned version of Vista. Not to take away from it, it runs great even on older laptops that just could not handle Vista requirements. I just think they should have changed the general GUI look to help take away from the Vista appearance/Vista mishap/This is Vista 2.0 feel that it has. Just my 2 cents worth. :yup:

Ludvig
08-10-2009, 06:13 AM
Thanks for pointing out this excellent article,SOL !

dozeren
08-10-2009, 06:39 AM
In a year or 2 hard drives will eventually hit more than 2TB exceed the capacity and affect millions of 32bit XP users. :cry: But hey :w00t: fortunately one way of coping this (xp fans will be delighted to know) is to use x64 XP with GPT support which can allow them to surpass the terabytes mark up to the petabytes. XP fans will have reasons to rejoice once again. :w00t: Thanks again m$ for your wonderful plethora editions of XP :lol:

jowell
08-10-2009, 06:56 AM
4me XP's truly forever :yup:
its 100% test compatibility whether hardware or sofware.:P

xes
08-10-2009, 08:13 AM
i always use the operating system the computer was configured for. windows 7 is said to be a good release, but i don't have the incentive to buy a new os when my current ones work fine for my needs. if i do pick up a new pc in the future, then i will most likely configure it to run windows 7.

megabyteme
08-10-2009, 09:30 AM
I never had any problems with vista but after paying over 200 dollars (for one pc) for the full version I think I have donated enough money to microsoft.

I feel the same way. During XP's lifetime, I have built several (10+) computers and always made the purchaser (friends and family) buy an OEM copy of XP. I don't remember ever exceeding $115 (later down to about $90ish)but that is a lot of money going to one company for the same product. I cannot think of anything else- that is not a consumable, that I purchased so many times.

All in all, I kinda feel like an uncommissioned sales rep for M$. This "pirate" has been pretty generous IMO.

$SnoopDo2G$
08-11-2009, 04:05 AM
XP all the way... Microshit gonna regret this move to stop the SP packs for XP... lol

That's the way i got my XP legit: " after finish workin', i found an old ass comp layin' near the front door of where i was workin', then i looked at it closely and found a nice little thingy on the side :D

it was similar to this:

http://i1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/354/750/76/X08.jpg


then i grabbed it and tried to download a legit version of XP then install it and type that serial, i was so happy that it worked :D

SonsOfLiberty
08-11-2009, 05:03 AM
Easier way, take USB Flash Drive, load "Magic Jelly Bean Key Finder on it", and now go to your "local" Public Library, go to computer, load the USB Flash Drive, find key..guess what? You know have a Windows XP Pro VLK key...groovy huh? And since it's a "government" VLK key, it will NEVER EVER be blacklisted :lol: Killer :) Or you can do this at your local "court house" or "government" buildings or any other type of corporation that uses XP, because "most" likely it will be a VLK Corporate/Server/Pro Key :) HAVE FUN Now :lol:

Hairbautt
08-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Well, I made the switch.

You conservative bastards.

:lol:

Ludvig
08-11-2009, 04:21 PM
Windows 7 (Final OEM) vs. Windows Vista VGA Performance:

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/2869/windows_7_final_oem_vs_windows_vista_vga_performance/index.html

tesco
08-11-2009, 07:41 PM
Easier way, take USB Flash Drive, load "Magic Jelly Bean Key Finder on it", and now go to your "local" Public Library, go to computer, load the USB Flash Drive, find key..guess what? You know have a Windows XP Pro VLK key...groovy huh? And since it's a "government" VLK key, it will NEVER EVER be blacklisted :lol: Killer :) Or you can do this at your local "court house" or "government" buildings or any other type of corporation that uses XP, because "most" likely it will be a VLK Corporate/Server/Pro Key :) HAVE FUN Now :lol:
In school all of the PCs (dells) had the product key on the side, similar to what $SnoopDo2G$ posted.
I just wrote the number down and took it home and used it to install XP Pro Corp. :P

SonsOfLiberty
08-11-2009, 10:17 PM
Yeah some of those do to, you can do it any PC retailer too, the ones they have out for show and to test :)

saulin
08-12-2009, 03:22 AM
Well, Windows 7 looks a lot like Vista and well right now I'm using Vista because I plan to game now and all new games are DX10 and Windows XP only support DX9 officially. Now once a lot of games start using DX11; I will probably move to Windows 7 or once the performance in games is the same for both Vista and Windows 7. Of course when that happens I will also need a new video card haha.

Windows XP flies with 4GB of RAM. Vista runs alright but I find XP much faster. I love XP, the only reason I switched was because I wanted to play new games in DX10.

Appzalien
08-12-2009, 02:28 PM
I've tried Vista and I "are you sure you want to type that letter?" didn't "are you sure you want to type that word?" like it. But I also tried Win7 and found it a jumble compaired to XP or Vista when it come to finding your way around. OH, sure I've read about people who love the new pinning of stuff or the jump function and libraries but I never got that far cause I was looking for stuff I could recognize. Add/Remove programs for instance or a classic view button to get it back.

To me the big MS mistake was to base the newest OS on a loser. I figure if they created a flashy GUI based exactly on XP's interface, added the new faster file system and its kernal, along with directx 11 and even maybe some aero stuff and created XP2 they would be in a much better position now than what they did to themselves with Win7. Even if it meant taking 2 or 3 years before they could release it. Stealing more GUI stuff from Apple is not going to wisk them off into the future, and change for change sake just ticks people off.

Moksu
08-12-2009, 02:33 PM
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=22006
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5101

few links among many what shows windows 7 is also faster than xp!

iLOVENZB
08-13-2009, 08:29 AM
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=22006
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5101

few links among many what shows windows 7 is also faster than xp!

Nice, but hardware requirements are much higher (obviously) than XP, so having a cheap, lightweight Windows-based server isn't possible.

NETVIRUS
08-15-2009, 06:56 PM
For me the best XP is Windows XP 4ever

Tom0102
08-15-2009, 08:19 PM
I agree with tesco. Pretty much everyone hated XP when it came out. I love Vista but you really have to have a beast of a machine to run it properly so hopefully Win 7 will do the job properly this time

mbucari1
08-16-2009, 06:23 AM
to me, XP vs. Vista is like Hand screwdriver vs. electric screwdriver. The hand screwdriver can unscrew the same screws as the electric screwdriver, but the electric screwdriver is faster and easier. I don't care about benchmarks. I KNOW that 7 performs better on my $400 laptop that I bought a year ago than Xp, and it performs better on my 3 year old PC than XP does.

Ludvig
08-17-2009, 07:16 AM
to me, XP vs. Vista is like Hand screwdriver vs. electric screwdriver. The hand screwdriver can unscrew the same screws as the electric screwdriver, but the electric screwdriver is faster and easier. I don't care about benchmarks. I KNOW that 7 performs better on my $400 laptop that I bought a year ago than Xp, and it performs better on my 3 year old PC than XP does.
:pinch:

Come on,mbucari,don't be so provocative ! How does it perform better is the right question and will you answer it rationally ? Please ? With Vista and 7,we are experiencing for the first time a regression compared to the previous OS generation.We all read about the "Vista relaoaded" craze,so three years later,we were expecting everything that Vista should've been (Understand:errr,Vista the way it should've been from the start) but no.

mbucari1
08-17-2009, 08:23 AM
to me, XP vs. Vista is like Hand screwdriver vs. electric screwdriver. The hand screwdriver can unscrew the same screws as the electric screwdriver, but the electric screwdriver is faster and easier. I don't care about benchmarks. I KNOW that 7 performs better on my $400 laptop that I bought a year ago than Xp, and it performs better on my 3 year old PC than XP does.
:pinch:

Come on,mbucari,don't be so provocative ! How does it perform better is the right question and will you answer it rationally ? Please ? With Vista and 7,we are experiencing for the first time a regression compared to the previous OS generation.We all read about the "Vista relaoaded" craze,so three years later,we were expecting everything that Vista should've been (Understand:errr,Vista the way it should've been from the start) but no.
I don't know what Vista "Should have been", but I know what I experienced with all 3. I was just as excited as the next person when vista came out. I didn't install until the RTM, and used it exclusively for almost 6 months. My experience was positive in some respects. Most notably, it handled unresponsive programs MUCH better than XP, the UI froze MUCH less than XP and I received fewer BSOD's than with Xp on the same hardware. Points against it were it's high cpu USE. Vista would idle around 10% load and this noticeably effected performance while using the machine. It "rotted" much more quickly than XP. In the 6 months I used it, I felt I needed to reinstall 3 times to fix the extraneous errors and get a speed boost. It might have been 3rd party software instead of winrot, but I'm not in the habbit of installing every piece of software that catches my eye. Oh, and navigation is explorer was VERY user unfriendly.

Enter Windows 7. After my less than pleasurable experience with vista, I went back to XP and had been there until may of this year. I decided I've give windows 7 a chance based on a recommendation made by clocker. I immediately noticed the same benefits that vista had over XP, and quickly noticed that idle cpu use hovered around 1% (on the same cpu). Explorer had been improved over vista and ever over XP imo. Day to day operation was and is smoother and I haven't noticed any performance decrease running other applications. There is the occasional compatablity problem, but that's to be expected. Now, as far as winrot goes I have been stunned. I'm currently running build 7264 which I installed when it was released (don't remember when that was) and am not too much of a hurry to upgrade (cuz I don't want to buy a ned optical drive which I broke).

Yes, vista was slow. I'd rather use XP than vista and did for 2 years, but now I'd rather use 7. Like I said, show me all the benchmarks you want. Prove to me that 7 averages 20% slower than XP all around. In my hands it feels faster.

Cabalo
08-17-2009, 01:18 PM
nice to see so many people here who never saw a DX10 game in their whole life.
Stick with XP and DX9, and let the ones with powerful hardware evolve.
heck, you should even stick with MS-DOS, it's way faster and less resource demanding than XP. Microsoft's biggest problem is having to deal with user's ignorance.
And their ignorance is bliss.

tesco
08-17-2009, 11:20 PM
:pinch:

Come on,mbucari,don't be so provocative ! How does it perform better is the right question and will you answer it rationally ? Please ? With Vista and 7,we are experiencing for the first time a regression compared to the previous OS generation.We all read about the "Vista relaoaded" craze,so three years later,we were expecting everything that Vista should've been (Understand:errr,Vista the way it should've been from the start) but no.
I don't know what Vista "Should have been", but I know what I experienced with all 3. I was just as excited as the next person when vista came out. I didn't install until the RTM, and used it exclusively for almost 6 months. My experience was positive in some respects. Most notably, it handled unresponsive programs MUCH better than XP, the UI froze MUCH less than XP and I received fewer BSOD's than with Xp on the same hardware. Points against it were it's high cpu USE. Vista would idle around 10% load and this noticeably effected performance while using the machine. It "rotted" much more quickly than XP. In the 6 months I used it, I felt I needed to reinstall 3 times to fix the extraneous errors and get a speed boost. It might have been 3rd party software instead of winrot, but I'm not in the habbit of installing every piece of software that catches my eye. Oh, and navigation is explorer was VERY user unfriendly.

Enter Windows 7. After my less than pleasurable experience with vista, I went back to XP and had been there until may of this year. I decided I've give windows 7 a chance based on a recommendation made by clocker. I immediately noticed the same benefits that vista had over XP, and quickly noticed that idle cpu use hovered around 1% (on the same cpu). Explorer had been improved over vista and ever over XP imo. Day to day operation was and is smoother and I haven't noticed any performance decrease running other applications. There is the occasional compatablity problem, but that's to be expected. Now, as far as winrot goes I have been stunned. I'm currently running build 7264 which I installed when it was released (don't remember when that was) and am not too much of a hurry to upgrade (cuz I don't want to buy a ned optical drive which I broke).

Yes, vista was slow. I'd rather use XP than vista and did for 2 years, but now I'd rather use 7. Like I said, show me all the benchmarks you want. Prove to me that 7 averages 20% slower than XP all around. In my hands it feels faster.
It's wierd that you saw a 10% cpu load at idle with vista, and also wierd that you see a 1% cpu load in win7.
I see a 0% load in all 3 OSes with this pc or my old one.:huh:

mbucari1
08-18-2009, 01:37 AM
It's wierd that you saw a 10% cpu load at idle with vista, and also wierd that you see a 1% cpu load in win7.
I see a 0% load in all 3 OSes with this pc or my old one.:huh:
I don't know what to tell you there. Vista always idled high. 7 hops back and forth between 0 and 1 at idle, but vista's was always restless.

golden_3y3
08-23-2009, 07:46 AM
I`ll use XP until it doesn't support the games I want to play

Zeus12
08-23-2009, 01:02 PM
I totally agree. Iīve been running xp since it came out and donīt plan on changing it.
Besides, if the program runs fine why even care. Isnīt the O.S. supposed to be transparent and let the software do the work?