Are some people just defective?

[megabyteme]

A lot of the "old timers" around here have gotten skeptical about people who have "made mistakes" in the past and the ability of those people to start acting like "good" members of the community.

In other threads, I have tried to defend these people and the possibility of redemption (at least in terms of this community). I am still not ready to abandon people who have made mistakes, I probably never will. If I can help someone be a better member of the community, then I will certainly do my best. All I need is some shred of proof that they are truly making an effort. I don't even expect great results- if my efforts were to help, say, 1 in 5 people I think it would be worth the effort. Maybe I am a nOOb, an idealist, or maybe just a fool...:)

Anyway, I would not be here if I did not believe I could ultimately do some good. I like this community, its people and its rewards. Other than an insatiable desire for thought-provoking conversation and good friends, my needs have been met. Seriously- I grab True Blood every Sunday. It was available on 3 of my trackers at the same time! About an hour later, the HD version was available. Most other media is distributed in the same manner.

There seems to be an element in every group, community, city, country, etc., however, that cannot, to save their lives, just be an honest, respectable member of that group. Sometimes I understand why the cynics are the way they are.:angry:

So what is it with these people who have been banned from every tracker that they have ever been on, who get involved in trading, cannot follow a single rule of a site or show simple respect/appreciation to someone who helped them? Is there some kind of social defect? Do they not know how to be part of a community? I might be able to understand if we were sharing finite, tangible resources, but what we have here is infinitely reproducible. There will never be a shortage of any kind!

And really...of all the communities one could join, the requirements here are very, very minimal...seed back what you take...don't trade...don't cheat the tracker (how stupid is that one?)...don't spam or flame...respect the mods. There really isn't that much more. Those are the basics- how about the "advanced" stuff? make some posts that don't involve requests...help your fellow members with their questions...read the news section and make some comments...don't lie or deceive someone who is trying to help you!!!

Like I said, I am not ready to give up. Actually, my post have resulted in some very nice PM's. Ultimately, that type of response has made my efforts worthwhile. And I will never know if I have helped new members be more responsible from the start.

I would just like to know what is at the core of the people who just don't understand community. This is the ultimate in a "giving" group- the rewards outweigh the costs exponentially. Someone who is "connected" in this community literally has access to all forms of digital media, past, present, and future. Is it asking so much for these people to follow the minuscule rules of conduct around here?

And, please, don't get me wrong- I do not feel like Atlas. I have only been here a few months and I know that I will never do as much for this community as some of the "old timers" have. This is a great community and it would not be nearly as good without those members. Mostly, I am just looking for some insight that people have gained over the years as they have seen nOObs, scammers, liars, cheats, etc. and hundreds, if not thousands, of good members come and go.

End of (mild) rant. :frusty: :D

MBM

[Rart]

Autism imo.

Honestly though, I believe it has all and everything to do with levels. Levels, levels, and more levels. That WTAW thread should seriously be removed.

I believe with a little bit of effort on sites such as demonoid or IPT, you can work your way up to TL. Great speeds and content, incredibly easy to seed. For the average user, you will never need more content than whats there. Maybe if you are particularly interested in certain content, you could find a niche tracker such as bmtv, bcg, whatever to fit your interest. But when people see WTAW threads and drool over sites such as UK-T, FTN, FTWR which they will probably never ever get in their lifetime, they turn to trading.

Trading results from being unable to access their "leet" and "rare" sites. Threads like WTAW overhype and glorify rare trackers, even when they may have less content and worse speeds than more common ones. In response, these leet sites cut off invites even more to combat traders and collectors, just exacerbating the problem even more.

As for cheaters, some people are just lazy. But it also has to do with this craze to get into higher trackers, where 99% of the users have seedboxes, and they don't know how to seed after coming off demonoid with a 500 ratio. What do they do then to download from their favorite rare tracker? Cheat =/

PS: It is very disheartening to spend a good couple of minutes thinking and typing out a post, only to submit it and see its only a fraction of the size of your massive post :(

[Rart]

I'm just voicing my opinion. If you think I'm wrong, explain why.

[Rart]

Im glad you've contributed well to this thread.

[ca_aok]

This coming from the moron who only wants trackers that are level 10. You're the exact sort of problematic user he discusses, a cheater, trader, and level seeker.

Once someone has traded, it's curtains for them as far as I'm concerned. They've already demonstrated they have no respect for tracker accounts or rules and only want invites so they can get ahead in the "levels".

Honestly, the high level trackers aren't anything worth drooling over. They're smaller communities, that's the only advantage. IRC channels where you can actually get to know people and small (if generally inactive) forums. There's always less content than a place like TL. These trackers are tailored for a specific sort of user, and if you haven't been invited then you aren't that sort of user.

My best advice to those of you who insist of level seeking is get active in IRC, as this is really the place where you meet folks that can help you. Forums are too stagnated and there's very little informal discussion going on, but obviously forum activity doesn't hurt. Torrent comments are also a good thing. Basically you get active and people will slowly reward you. Every single one of these "high level" sites was offered to me out of the blue, I never directly asked anyone for an invite. So yes, it does happen like that. However I know for a fact it's my IRC activity that got me into these sites because my inviters are all folks I'm friendly with in IRC.

[curtanwoo]

Honestly, the high level trackers aren't anything worth drooling over.

This is very true. If you're mostly about content (i.e. downloading juarez) you don't have much to gain from a high level tracker.

I got into one that's considered pretty "high level" around here. What I realized was that it was hard as hell to keep a ratio, and they had less content available with less seeders and uploaded longer time after pre than my usual trackers. I couldn't find out how to remove my account so I simply removed the bookmark. I guess my account was removed automatically due to inactivity; I wouldn't bother checking.

High level only means hard to get into. Hard to get into in many cases also means less users. Less users means less content and less seeders.

I tend to aim for the middle ground. Many private trackers are great and do have content which I can't find anywhere else. These trackers aren't that hard to get into. So why the hell would I trade and risk my accounts? It doesn't make sense UNLESS you only do it for some other benefit besides actually using the account. Ergo they do it just to get a bigger epeen.

A bit off topic, but to answer OP: Yeah, they are douches and kids. Just ignore them and/or laugh at them. As much as I respect your anti-cynical stance, you also need to take into account that this is the internet. People might change due to peer pressure in real life and even then it's hard. On the internet we don't even have peer pressure, but instead we only type text messages to each other. I simply don't think it's worth thinking that much about. Just accept some people are like that and move on to more important stuff.

/curtanwoo

[KushBlow]

The answer is simple. We as humans are animals. We compete with one another. Would you rather get that average Mustang that has more km/h & horsepower and more widely available spare parts, or that Bentley that you rarely see, which relies on shock value?

That might have been a bad analogy, I'll stop now.

[IdolEyes787]

Greed isn't governed by any biological imperatives.

As for being skeptical, one can be a skeptic without resorting to
cynicism .
A cynic refuses to believe , a skeptic merely asks " show me"

[NippleCake]

one word:

lol

[IdolEyes787]

That's not a word.

[KushBlow]

Greed isn't governed by any biological imperatives.

They rhyme with juice.

[megabyteme]

I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful responses! I really wasn't sure how people would take my post. I do think that greed, envy, sloth, (hey I've heard these mentioned somewhere before) all play into the human condition IRL and online. It makes sense that these characteristics would show themselves more readily with the anonymity afforded here.

I look forward to discussing this further, but I have just literally rolled out of bed (and yes, I did drink a decent amount of Smirnoff's Red (80 proof)before making my post last night. :D

[Rart]

After idoleyes swept through it now looks like I had a long conversation with myself... XD

[megabyteme]

I thought you might have just been thinking out loud. :lol: It's OK, we all talk to ourselves now and then. Just don't start arguing! :D

[Yoann64]

The answer is simple. We as humans are animals
In BT, you can find all the human nature, the good side, the dark side ...

More i'm in torrenting, more i think this is as in my office, there is :
the good, the bad, the ass-kisser, the "I don't care", the asshole, the noob etc...
Some friends said : " This is internet, not RL", but these 2 worlds are not far.
Internet has some advantages, you can be who you want, and when you're fed up => shut down.

@OP : I hope that you don't do something for the other people's opinion or to prove something to the others, i hope that you do it because you want to do it !!
If you want to help someone, don't ask, and do it ...It's your choice !

[IdolEyes787]

After idoleyes swept through it now looks like I had a long conversation with myself... XD

Don't look at me you're obviously delusional .:angel_not

[QPD]

People can change!
People can do mistakes !
People deserve the second chance!

People are not trustfull !!!

[megabyteme]

*speaks quietly to IdolEyes* I know, I just didn't want to startle him. You know how unpredictable they can be... just back away slowly and don't make eye contact...:ohmy:


@OP : I hope that you don't do something for the other people's opinion or to prove something to the others, i hope that you do it because you want to do it !!
If you want to help someone, don't ask, and do it ...It's your choice !

I hope I didn't come across as "trying to please anyone". I posted this thread because I like to learn (blah, blah, talks about being a graduate student once again) and I believe that some of the "old timers" have more experience spotting "the defective":D than I do.

The only person I ask permission from is my wife. Not out of fear- out of respect. I guess I seek the opinions and wisdom from those who have "been around" for the same reason.

IdolEyes made some great points regarding the difference between cynicism and skepticism. The differences are ultimately huge, but the view often falls on a very fine line. My current difficulty comes from the fact that I am trying to look for reasons to help people instead of weighing the "evidence" honestly. The opposite would be the cynic who refuses to believe that anyone has the ability to change.

I am not a populist or a demagogue (thanks, cinephilia :P) I have my own voice and use it (arguably too much). I do, however, feel that there is still more for me to learn. Asking questions is, IMO, far better than learning from avoidable errors of judgment. I may never see eye-to-eye with guys like cinephilia (actually is there anyone else like cinephilia?), but there is definitely a place for his views. The guy is REALLY good at finding scumbags!:yup:

[TP635]

Make a tracker;
invite all those ex-cheaters and traders only as members
report in a year's time here.
It may work
There is no need to talk, just do it.

[th0r]

A lot of the "old timers" around here have gotten skepticallike whom? i haven't seen an old timers around here in months

[The_Martinator]

A lot of the "old timers" around here have gotten skepticallike whom? i haven't seen an old timers around here in months

For the OP old timer might mean something else than to you. He prolly doesn't realise that this site is 7 years old afaik.

Anyway to the problem at hand. IMO a large percentage of traders do it because of the language barrier. For some people learning and improving their language skills is hard. For me it's easy and fun, but I've helped people with such problems in my country and most of you here can't imagine the amounts of effort they put into improving it.

stoi once mantioned that people from Egypt for example are used to haggle for everything. That might be a factor also.

As for cheating, a lot of people I know in RL that are torrenters consider it something natural. :dabs:

[megabyteme]

Yeah, from my nOOb eyes everyone with over 4 stars is an "old timer". :P

I am mainly referring to the 15 or so people who seem to stand out and and have been around. Was there a mass exodus at some point or have people moved on gradually?

I have heard Egypt mentioned specifically as a problem. TBy banned the country. They just got tired of cheaters. One of the mods speculated that it might be a cultural difference. He was quite certain he did not want them back.

My original post explains how I see things. I am still struggling with my question the same way I have difficulties understanding why people won't work hard for a better life, stop excessive drugs/alcohol, or generally give up on life.

I have another discussion going on this site and the people posting there seem to feel that file-sharing is a form of theft. Perhaps it is this underlying thought that makes people disrespect the community and perhaps attracts some of its less than desirable "characters".

I disagree. I look at this a a community that has stepped outside of Capitalism. No one is rich or poor. There is nothing cool or exotic about a $10k copy of Maya or the latest UFC. Value comes from how people use the tools. Do they discuss the shows in forums? Do they actually know how to use that copy of Maya? Can they help someone else with a problem? There is no scarcity. No need for hoarding, greed, cheating. Why do that to a community where everything is free?

[NA_Magus]

Yeah, from my nOOb eyes everyone with over 4 stars is an "old timer". :P

I am mainly referring to the 15 or so people who seem to stand out and and have been around. Was there a mass exodus at some point or have people moved on gradually?

4 stars worth of posts only takes weeks to accomplish from what I've seen. :P
(and me, years.)

---

A lot of the trading and dishonesty strongly correlates with cultural backgrounds. Of the people I know IRL, they don't care much for seeding but don't cheat. They just don't care about any of the torrent ethics and affairds, nor do they really have to.

[n00bz0r]

ppl like me sure are defective.. :wink:
anyway, megabyteme gratz for ya know what! ;)

[IdolEyes787]

And well deserved I might add.

[n00bz0r]

yea.. guess i gotta agree.. :wink:
he was bound to get noticed wid those essays and philosophically inclined posts :lol:

[Nemrod]

And well deserved I might add.


I Agree. :)

[That1Guy]

Indeed, welcome megabyteme. Dont know you, but you seem to be able to put thought into your posts, which is always needed to fill in the gaps between the spam threads (official or otherwise) :P

[n00bz0r]

Indeed, welcome megabyteme. Dont know you, but you seem to be able to put thought into your posts, which is always needed to fill in the gaps between the spam threads (official or otherwise) :P

yea.. that comes in handy when ya have a lot too say and you don't chat on IRCs.. :lol:

[megabyteme]

Thanks guys! I appear to be in VERY good company! :D

[That1Guy]

yea.. that comes in handy when ya have a lot too say and you don't chat on IRCs.. :lol:

/me wonders who you are now....PM me in the irc to tell me (that is, if you know who I am :O )

[DV8type]

Was there a mass exodus at some point or have people moved on gradually?

A refreshing conversation. welcome

i think for the most part, the veterans of fst got tired of the same old site1 vs site2 and generally useless threads that now appear at fst. Sadly its own popularity has hurt fst and has relegated it to a shadow of its former self. This is pretty much the place where trading started, the torrent rankings started and the "anti-trading" started. now we have to deal w/ countless spam threads about outdated superficial topics such as, "which is better...."
While there have always been those types of threads, i think most of the vets got tired of them and just stopped posting. And instead of the void being filled w/ intellectual people who want to contribute it has been filled w/ "me 1st" users who's mentality has been how to get a quick buck.
tbh, its a problem in the whole torrent community not just fst. Sadly as it has become easier to create trackers, it has also attracted the type who are just out for themselves, those that ask themselves "how can i con my way into...." instead of saying "i should try and help with...." which is the real foundation of torrents and p2p, sharing is caring.

[megabyteme]

Thanks for the history and warm welcome, DV8type!

This is a community. Perhaps this forum has "slumped" from its glory days. But communities have pulled together IRL and turned things around. It is up to this community and its leaders to make changes and decide what kind of community we want to have.

The fact that this is where "anti-trading" started shows that people here have succeeded in making the BT community stronger. Perhaps we need to ask ourselves "what is possible?" I have a strong sense that a lot of people do not take the time to think about what this community represents. If we cannot join together, we will be thinking about "the glory days" when it was possible to get together in a forum like this.

The bottom line: we chose what we find acceptable in our real world neighborhoods. Why should it be any different here? If it is acceptable to walk past sleeping bums, abandoned buildings, broken down cars, and garbage spread around then that is the type of community we deserve. If we choose to clean up the trash, chase off the bums, have the cars towed and the buildings demolished then we have a foundation to have a nice place we can call home.

We need to not only get rid of the "trash", but we also need to mentor those who have a desire to make things better. We also need to change our mindset. There seems to be a self-destructive mindset that what we are doing (file-sharing)is wrong. I believe it is this line of thinking that weakens us. How can we build a stronger community if we, deep down- or sometimes right on the surface, believe that our cause is destructive or wrong?

This is the first-ever thriving community that does not base itself on a monetary system. It should be NO surprise that corporations despise us! We are philosophically opposed to the systems that are in place. Those institutions will do ANYTHING to maintain that control. We have seen it. Look at the worldwide campaign to change (and force) smaller countries to protect industries that are not their own.

If we scatter and do not find ways to strengthen our community, we will be crushed. All of the wonderful things that we can do online will be replaced with the corporate control and lack of freedoms.

And, yes, I realize that I am coming across as an idealist. People can throw bombs at this post and its ideas all day if they really want to. I do, however, hope that it will spark some discussion about "what could be". Really, if there ever existed a community where idealism SHOULD be considered a possibility, IT IS HERE!

[sez]

the veterans of fst got tired of the same old site1 vs site2 and generally useless threads that now appear at fst. Sadly its own popularity has hurt fst and has relegated it to a shadow of its former self.
Dunno how you take difference in opinion but digging through the archives here,i'd say that things are pretty much the same as they were back then only that in your days staffers from trackers actively participated in these so called useless threads.

This is pretty much the place where trading started, the torrent rankings started and the "anti-trading" started.
Good point you make but also its important to point out that guns don't kill people but rather the people behind the gun that kill people<--pulled that straight out of a DMX movie.

My point being that fst doesn't have a life of its own(like say demonoid :lol:)obviously those trade threads ought to have been typed up by people before they appeared on this board,and in our case the master scribes were these old skulers that so shun this place these days.Now its one thing for them to avoid this place altogether,could be cause of the guilt but its another when they shun this place and go on to spread shit about fst over a mess that they are almost solely responsible for.Economists will tell you that demand begets supply and in no way would there have been a WTAW thread or a trade forum if those holier than thou old skulers hadn't asked for them.
The way i see it,FST provided a platform for people to talk about file sharing but as to how its turned out,its those that came before us that take the greatest responsibility,good or bad.
As to how things remain unchanged,i hate to be the only one who seems to understand how complex this board is.

[sear]

I agree with DV8, one of the main problems from my point of view was that many people tried to change FST but FST showed an unwillingness to change. For many this quickly turned to cynicism about this forum so they left.

Another problem was that 'ant-trading' quickly got appropriated as a way to get into trackers and lost all meaning. For me anyone that claims to be an anti-trader is suspect. Actions speak louder than words and if you actually walk the walk there's very little need to talk the talk.

[megabyteme]

Actions speak louder than words and if you actually walk the walk there's very little need to talk the talk.

This reminds me of the couples I have seen out on first dates. You can see the guy wearing clothes that don't suit his style, his posture is forced, and he is really concentrating on all of the things he knows he is supposed to do- holding the door, napkin in his lap, etc. He is memorable because he is so unnatural in everything he does.

It's fun, yet painful to watch. :shifty:

[KushBlow]

I agree with DV8, one of the main problems from my point of view was that many people tried to change FST but FST showed an unwillingness to change. For many this quickly turned to cynicism about this forum so they left.

Another problem was that 'ant-trading' quickly got appropriated as a way to get into trackers and lost all meaning. For me anyone that claims to be an anti-trader is suspect. Actions speak louder than words and if you actually walk the walk there's very little need to talk the talk.

Just like in real life, you never know who someone really is or where he/she has been unless you find out or he tells you.

[megabyteme]

Just like in real life, you never know who someone really is or where he/she has been unless you find out or he tells you.

Time reveals who people really are. It would sure be nice to know ahead of time, wouldn't it.:D

[integral]

I don't think most of the people aforementioned are necessarily defective, but I also won't argue that there are bad seeds here; believe me, I've had personal experiences.

What people posting here should take into mind is exactly how people end up here. It's not like someone just all of a sudden opens their browser, and are all of a sudden presented with FST without ever having been here before.

Most people wind up here from a search engine, therefore you have to consider the keywords they typed in to wind up here. Or, if they wound up here from a post on some other site they frequent, you have to take into consideration the context of that forum or post. And you can generally assume those keywords/contexts summarize the mentality of people who wind up here.

So, if someone ended up here searching for "free torrentleech invites", or from a torrentleech thread on their favorite gaming forum, do you think they're going to be in the mindset for being a productive member of the community and learning the ropes? I sure don't.

People in general want everything quick. They're not going to want to make a name for themselves, contribute to conversations, or anything like that. They just want the invites, and they want them fast. Sure, the 30 day rule helps, but as I mentioned before, people are just in a rush, and they already have that preexisting mindset they had the minute they typed those keywords into Google. And of course, without delving too far into the morality argument, I don't think people searching for private trackers are going to be too keen on following rules based on not trading or economizing invites/accounts.

In my opinion the most anyone can do to help is to politely remind newer users of the rules that most trackers follow, and to guide them in the right direction; giving them a be-a-productive-member-of-the-community-and-get-invites flowchart won't help at all and it cheapens the entire aspect of any community.

As for people who traded in the past, they just have to deal with that stigma. If they truly become productive members here and on other trackers, and stop trading, then their past trading won't matter as much. Attacking people who call them traders isn't productive at all.

[stoi]

To, me its a hell of a lot of different things. now i am not having a go at FST here, I am not like a lot of staff thathate this place, even though i have gone off it a lot recently, i still dont hate it.

1: The news section is just recycled news from other sites, yes it is informative, but if this site was so "good" surely they could get news exclusives where other sites would take from here.

2: Staff of trackers are treat like crap, we are the enemy, if we say white, the staff of here say black (now i can understand this, but their point blank refusal to even accept an olive branch or even listen sometimes gets on my wick), I would even go as far to say that traders are respcted more, but meh, will shut up there are skizo will have a go at me again for going on and on about the same thing.

3: Members that sign up here, are usually noobs to the private tracker world, if they had most of the trackers, they wont need this place, so the 1st thing they see is the reviews thread (guests can view that which knarks a lot of tracker staff off as well), then after 30 days the fabled (and yes it is fabled, its been coppied on that many sites, they want to see the proper version) of the WTAW thread, and as the do not know anything different, they end up trading.

You see it all the time from noobs, have demonoid, want (lvl 1-3 tracker here) and thats it, they are already on that slippery slope before you can stop them. Just because they do not know any better for the most part.

4: Members want something now, fast broadband, fast food, fast pre times, they are not prepared to wait and work for it anymore. I remember when this was the Klite forum, it even had its own IRC back then (which is where i actually discovered torrents believe it or not) and members for the most part just used to be a lot more nicer, we would help each other out, post K-Lite and Emule links to stuff we ripped ourselves and were seeding, i even had my own FTP with about 10 members from here in it, and my first 5 staff on BCG were members from here. It just seemed back then a lot more friendlier atmosphere and as we all had crap connections, speed was not everything.

I actually left here before the BT forums came about, as i had my own site and was just to busy to frequent here, i also ditched kazaa and emule and most of my friends from here, were staff on my site anyway, so it was pointless, I only came back here because when BCG went down for a week or so, a member Emailed me and said there was a thread on here with members wondering what was going on, tried to sign up and stoi was already taken, thought hmmm, pretty unique name which git stole it lol but tried a few of my old passwords and 1 worked, did not realise this was the K-lite forums for another 3-4 months after that though. (so i cant say if the BT forums in all their glory (gieaways and trades) made it worse or if it was just time and changing attitudes)).

tbh i think the whole internet is changing for the worse, its all ME ME ME and NOW NOW NOW from the vast majority, and communication and helping others has for the most part just gone out the window, which is a shame.

[NA_Magus]

Also, don't believe too strongly that most of the old members are gone. I get the feeling they're still here but under different aliases/IP addresses.

[IdolEyes787]

Staff of trackers are treat like crap, we are the enemy, if we say white, the staff of here say black (now i can understand this, but their point blank refusal to even accept an olive branch or even listen sometimes gets on my wick,


I know where that is coming form but please don't generalize about the staff here.

And as for the idea of old members creating new identities , what would be the point?
I think the truth has already been said that rereading the same stuff over and over becomes pretty tedious after a while and so they drifted away.Perfectly understandable.
Seems some still lurk , probably curious to see if any of their old friends are still around but that's about the extent of their involvement here.

[stoi]

well its the upper staff obviously, you have not got a lot of say at all, we seen that with detale who tried and failed miserably. (and i do mean that in a good way to you mods, if it sounded bad it was not meant to be)

but on the flip side, if 1 tracker staff is a bastard, the whole tracker gets bad rep off the OP that is complaining on here, and nothing is done about that...

[IdolEyes787]

Noted .
I've posted on many a thread that that kind of talk shouldn't be taken seriously ( especially by people who create accounts specifically to do that sort of thing ) but I'll try to do better in the future .

[ca_aok]

Most people wind up here from a search engine, therefore you have to consider the keywords they typed in to wind up here. Or, if they wound up here from a post on some other site they frequent, you have to take into consideration the context of that forum or post. And you can generally assume those keywords/contexts summarize the mentality of people who wind up here.
This is a very good point. This is how I showed up here a year and a half ago, and if I hadn't been turned onto the right path by some members here I probably would've started trading or begging.


2: Staff of trackers are treat like crap, we are the enemy, if we say white, the staff of here say black (now i can understand this, but their point blank refusal to even accept an olive branch or even listen sometimes gets on my wick), I would even go as far to say that traders are respcted more, but meh, will shut up there are skizo will have a go at me again for going on and on about the same thing.
This is never going to change. The staff here allow blatant disregard of core tracker rules to take place. What confuses me about the staff here is that they're willing to remove some posts (often dealing with secret trackers) from the regular BT talk, but they're unwilling to put a stop to the trading which has blemished this community's image forever. The staff here will always be bitter towards the hatred displayed towards FST on various other torrent forums and torrent trackers, and tracker staff will always be bitter about what goes on at FST.

Really, there are a few types of members here. There are a few "old guard" type folks that already have the trackers they need and treat this as a place for discussion or for giving out their unneeded invites. There are some new folks that also seem to get involved right off the bat, but I'd question some of their motives as many of them no doubt believe that post count = more invites for them. Then there are the noobs that show up here, make a few posts, and start begging for stuff on day 30. There's the trader scum that this place is judged by, and there are the tracker staff here to provide support and catch the traders. There are, of course, average members that give away invites and hope to receive them in return while participating in the site in general, but these seem to be few and far between. This all leads to a rather dysfunctional site dynamic and doesn't really promote quality posting.

Which leads me to why I still read these forums (or the main reason). I view many threads created here as a source of entertainment, as threads (like those idiotic ones about TTC last week) are a spectacle that are chuckled about both here and elsewhere.

[stoi]

Thinking about it a bit more as well, there are other reasons.

There just is not the quantity of filesharing programs any more.

K-lite is dead
Emule-Edonkey may as well be
Win-MX is dead (or last i heard it was)
Users own FTPs are dead, you dont get many FTPs with 30KBs upload anymore lol if you want an FTP its on a server and you have to pay for it, and the ones that have them they are not going to advertise on here.
IRC as a filesharing medium is not as big anymore (it probably is but you dont here about it so much these days).

All that is left is.

Bittorrent
Rapidshare
Newsgroups.

Now, most of the top list, never had forums, or things to discuss the releases etc, so members used to do that here. 2 of the bottom list, Bittorrent and Rapidshare, have their own forums/comments, so members can discuss things there instead of here. and with newsgroups, there are plenty other search engines to use than here (not that they dont do a good job here, but its in the forum, if they had a seperate search index it may be better).

Yes, you can discuss things here that you cant discuss on the above, but not a lot, and the same things being discussed over and over again gets boring.

Yes, the staff say that its not just about bittorrent, ok its not, but if a noob goes into the lounge, they dont even chew them up, they swallow them whole, i have been here since 2003 and have over 3,000 posts, and i wont even go into the lounge lol

There just is not a lot to talk about on here anymore, whereas before when it was K-lite (like i mentioned in a previous post) we used to tell members what we were ripping, and when it would be done, and then give them the link and they used to be the first to grab it (just like uploading torrents i suppose it was addictive, but now that is discussed on torrent forums and not here) so it felt a lot more involved than it does now, all they really have on here now is NZBs which i have grabbed i think 3 from here in 6 years.

People move on, sites move on, you have to go with the times, and FST`s way of doing that, to get members into the forum, was to have the bittorrent section with the giveaways and trades, if they never had that, i very much doubt many would join, and even less would stay.

To me the personality has been stripped from this place, some members still think this is the place to be, and this is better than tracker forums, but sorry i just cant see that at all, its just not like it used to be to me, and if anything, the bittorrent giveaways and trades has made this a worse place, because most of the helpful members have left (either because of it, or for their own reasons) and they have replaced them with members that just want everything now, and cant be arsed to work for it (which is another reason old members may have left). (which does not make for a good lasting community i am afraid).

anyway enough of my rambling, going to bed now as its 05:30am.

[IdolEyes787]

This is never going to change. The staff here allow blatant disregard of core tracker rules to take place. What confuses me about the staff here is that they're willing to remove some posts (often dealing with secret trackers) from the regular BT talk, but they're unwilling to put a stop to the trading which has blemished this community's image forever. The staff here will always be bitter towards the hatred displayed towards FST on various other torrent forums and torrent trackers, and tracker staff will always be bitter about what goes on at FST.

I highly doubt that FST is to blame people's lackings because ( however much you wish it)morality isn't something effected by creating rules.
By your line of reasoning then the trackers themselves would be mostly to blame for trading since they allow people invites and the free will to do with them what they want.

As for "the staff " being bitter ,not to my knowledge .
I do harbor a bit of resentment though over the fact how some people (such as apparently yourself) seem to have the ability know the hearts and minds ( :dabs: reduced to quoting Lydon Johnson) of others while I do not.

View FST as Gommorah if you wish but that's far from the truth and I think that ( all acknowledgments to current fashion aside ) we both know that.


Really, there are a few types of members here.

I think that there are as many types of members here as there are people.

[Zip]

The staff here allow blatant disregard of core tracker rules to take place. What confuses me about the staff here is that they're willing to remove some posts (often dealing with secret trackers) from the regular BT talk, but they're unwilling to put a stop to the trading which has blemished this community's image forever.
Which part of the staff are you talking about? Let's take BT mods as an example. It's not their fault the wtaw thread or the trading section exist.

They only do their job which is moderating and making sure the rules are followed.

Deleting selected posts has simply something to do with the rules (spam for instance is very usual is so called secret tracker discussions). ;)

[sear]

Let's take BT mods as an example. It's not their fault the wtaw thread or the trading section exist.

They only do their job which is moderating and making sure the rules are followed.

Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?

[stoi]

I think they stopped that.

but as to zips post, T.S.O.L was WTAW for ages before he even got mod on here, he pmed me with that tidbit of info quite a while ago, now though he is staff here, and everyone knows it was him (not by me though, this is the first time i have told anyone).

So no its not their fault as they were probably not even members when they sprung up, and if they do fight it, they get told they are siding with us and make a choice. So they cant do anything about it anyway, but they are not all as innocent as they seem.

[n00bz0r]

Let's take BT mods as an example. It's not their fault the wtaw thread or the trading section exist.

They only do their job which is moderating and making sure the rules are followed.

Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?

spare him.. for the philosophy of 'ignorance is bliss' has a true believer :happy:

[sear]

I think they stopped that

Fair enough I didn't know that.

p.s. I wasn't trying to bitch about you guys I actually like the BT mods on a personal level.

[realityhd]

I'm defective. :(

[Swift]

shouldn't this thread be in the lounge section ?

[Zip]

Let's take BT mods as an example. It's not their fault the wtaw thread or the trading section exist.

They only do their job which is moderating and making sure the rules are followed.

Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?
That simply used to be a part of their job, or one of their tasks.


spare him.. for the philosophy of 'ignorance is bliss' has a true believer :happy:
I may be ignorant, but not as much as you are.

[n00bz0r]

Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?
That simply used to be a part of their job, or one of their tasks.


spare him.. for the philosophy of 'ignorance is bliss' has a true believer :happy:
I may be ignorant, but not as much as you are.

Don't flatter yourself :dry:

[sear]

Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?
That simply used to be a part of their job, or one of their tasks.

How does that make it ok or not supporting trading? I can't really be arsed arguing about it as it doesn't exist any more but saying it's simply part of the job is a cop out.

[respawn40]

I actually have a bit more faith in this site, as I've noticed that there have been a few recent members who (from what I can tell) are outstanding! :)

[sez]

I've stumbled upon quite good number of interesting reads by some kat called settindice(still looking for his twitter:P) and if anything they've just gone to reinforce my view that fst somehow appears to be an easier target for people to pick on.

If guys are being honest when pulling these guilt by association quick ones,then this jpeg among other things is supposed to be one hell of an oxymoron.
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1521/photovcd.jpg
but apparently it isn't and the interesting part is that as much as he is moding this invite trading forum,its generally accepted that his character shall always transcend his work and that he is basically just doing his job.As to why the same can't be generally assumed here i really don't know,maybe good godfathers would do :P.

I feel like going hard on TL but I won't coz am not sure of the facts yet but i think it would make me wet if the jibberish on TL turns out to be who i think it is coz apparently they came up with this policy of banning mods from sites that have anything to do with invite trading regardless of their positions on the issue.They did a big launch on fst a while back,fireworks and what nots,somebody from TL got banned then somebody from fst got banned from TL,what a way to run a tracker,heh?
/me zips coz from here onwards it would be just shit talk.

[stoi]

Ok I am not at liberty to say anything about that guy ^^

but i can assure you there is a lot more to it than him running an invite site. even though that does not help.

[That1Guy]

If that is the site I think it is, then I dont think they allow trading.

Unless I misunderstood your comment...

[IdolEyes787]

Is it just me or is anyone else bothered by the fact that people here seem to have lost the ability to speak plainly?

I mean ( probably the first and last time Meat Loaf will ever be quoted on this forum) "you whisper when I want you to shout"
Or maybe it's just all over my head? If is is then that would hardly be surprising.


IdolEyes hates secrecy ( even if there is sometimes a need for it).IdolEyes would have made a very bad mod spy.

As for someone from FST being banned from TL no longer true .And the person from TL that was banned could come back anytime that he wants but he chooses not to for various reasons noneof which being hard feelings

[stoi]

If that reply was for me?

then

1: He is not a member of BCG, what he done/has done/is doing was on another tracker

2: I dont like it when someone that does not know the whole story, bashes a tracker for banning a member, and then sticks up for the member in question (which is what i garnered from the post by sez) but i may have misread his intentions.

3: what the person in that pic is accused of is a global ban offence.

4: If i told you what he had done, on here or anywhere else for that matter, i would have abused the trust other staff on other sites have for me, so that is why no info will come from my lips, if others want to have a say, then so be it.

[IdolEyes787]

It wasn't really directed at anyone.Just a general drop a line in the pond so who bits.
Btw I don't want or expect anyone to betray anything .Ever .Even if there seems a good reason for it.Two wrongs and all the bullshit.I just said I don't like secrecy that's all .

Also btw I don't intentional ever say anything to bother you. Unfortunately sometimes it just happens .

Also also btw this has nothing to do with you being associated with anything .You could kick me off BC tomorrow and I would still have the same high opinion of you.
(Go ahead and go it if you like and then we can prove the point)

[Skiz]

A lot of the "old timers" around here have gotten skeptical about people who have "made mistakes" in the past and the ability of those people to start acting like "good" members of the community.

In other threads, I have tried to defend these people and the possibility of redemption (at least in terms of this community). I am still not ready to abandon people who have made mistakes, I probably never will. If I can help someone be a better member of the community, then I will certainly do my best. All I need is some shred of proof that they are truly making an effort. I don't even expect great results- if my efforts were to help, say, 1 in 5 people I think it would be worth the effort. Maybe I am a nOOb, an idealist, or maybe just a fool...:)

Anyway, I would not be here if I did not believe I could ultimately do some good. I like this community, its people and its rewards. Other than an insatiable desire for thought-provoking conversation and good friends, my needs have been met. Seriously- I grab True Blood every Sunday. It was available on 3 of my trackers at the same time! About an hour later, the HD version was available. Most other media is distributed in the same manner.

There seems to be an element in every group, community, city, country, etc., however, that cannot, to save their lives, just be an honest, respectable member of that group. Sometimes I understand why the cynics are the way they are.:angry:

So what is it with these people who have been banned from every tracker that they have ever been on, who get involved in trading, cannot follow a single rule of a site or show simple respect/appreciation to someone who helped them? Is there some kind of social defect? Do they not know how to be part of a community? I might be able to understand if we were sharing finite, tangible resources, but what we have here is infinitely reproducible. There will never be a shortage of any kind!

And really...of all the communities one could join, the requirements here are very, very minimal...seed back what you take...don't trade...don't cheat the tracker (how stupid is that one?)...don't spam or flame...respect the mods. There really isn't that much more. Those are the basics- how about the "advanced" stuff? make some posts that don't involve requests...help your fellow members with their questions...read the news section and make some comments...don't lie or deceive someone who is trying to help you!!!

Like I said, I am not ready to give up. Actually, my post have resulted in some very nice PM's. Ultimately, that type of response has made my efforts worthwhile. And I will never know if I have helped new members be more responsible from the start.

I would just like to know what is at the core of the people who just don't understand community. This is the ultimate in a "giving" group- the rewards outweigh the costs exponentially. Someone who is "connected" in this community literally has access to all forms of digital media, past, present, and future. Is it asking so much for these people to follow the minuscule rules of conduct around here?

And, please, don't get me wrong- I do not feel like Atlas. I have only been here a few months and I know that I will never do as much for this community as some of the "old timers" have. This is a great community and it would not be nearly as good without those members. Mostly, I am just looking for some insight that people have gained over the years as they have seen nOObs, scammers, liars, cheats, etc. and hundreds, if not thousands, of good members come and go.

End of (mild) rant. :frusty: :D

MBM

I read about 4 lines of that and felt like vomiting at the repetitive use of the word "community" in reference to FST. I read no further. :dabs:

[stoi]

hmm why the animosity (or thats what i am picking up, maybe to harsh a word though, but is is 5am here so cant think of another term for it) i was just trying to explain my post from before.

and why would i ban you?, yes you donate but thats not the reason i wont ban you, i have no reason to at all, apart from you mod here, but when Detale was getting global banned i actually made him an account, so i dont work the same way as some other trackers do.

I do wish you used our community more though, great tracker stats, but comments and forum posts are non existent lol

I am just confused on where your last 2 sentences spanned from.

[IdolEyes787]

I'm trying to be nice .:(
And I'm genuinely embarrassed that I don't participate at BCG .
Really it's caused by a combination of not having anything topic related to say that I haven't already said someplace before and also finding it intimidating to start at the bottom without knowing anyone again.

I mean I kind of know you and look at mess I've made of it here .
Imagine what would happen if I was loosed upon a bunch of strangers.
Carnage at the very least.

Btw there are only 3 sites that I give money to anymore and it's totally based on how I feel about their administration. I couldn't care less if they had fish instead of files .

[stoi]

yes i know you were trying to be nice, i just could not get my head around how you were bothering me (like i said, animosity was probably the wrong word to use), or egging me on to ban you.

it just did not make any sense to me lol

[1000possibleclaws]

I think they stopped that.

but as to zips post, T.S.O.L was WTAW for ages before he even got mod on here, he pmed me with that tidbit of info quite a while ago, now though he is staff here, and everyone knows it was him (not by me though, this is the first time i have told anyone).

So no its not their fault as they were probably not even members when they sprung up, and if they do fight it, they get told they are siding with us and make a choice. So they cant do anything about it anyway, but they are not all as innocent as they seem.

Me innocent? Come on now:rolleyes:. But.. without making excuses, a certain staff member at one of the friendliest trackers around used to manage that thread as well. Whatever negative stigma the thread carries has not rubbed off on him; he's a great guy and that speaks loudest. I don't find anyone in particular judges me based on that anymore. And it's still just part of the job, every once in a while.

(Just spent an hour catching up on this thread/getting distracted by other things. Seems the topic has drifted but the first couple pages were very interesting and a great read, something rarer for me these days. Since it's off topic I won't change it back but I saw your post and felt I could elaborate a little on it)

[orfik]

I really get tired of seeing this moral indignation from people happily engaging in criminal activity every day. Let me get this straight: You're fine with the theft and distribution of copyrighted material, but the thought of someone breaking the tracker rules disgusts you? You're frustrated because you're a hypocrite, so the world will never make sense to you.

If you follow the rules because you like the tracker and enjoy the community, fine. If you do it out of ethical motivation, you're a fool. And if you think anyone should do the same, you're delusional.

[pone44]

Kind of a hypocrite yourself as you do the same thing , a member of trackers, RS.

Being invited to a site and asked to follow that sites rules is respecting the site, staff and the person who invited you.



I really get tired of seeing this moral indignation from people happily engaging in criminal activity every day. Let me get this straight: You're fine with the theft and distribution of copyrighted material, but the thought of someone breaking the tracker rules disgusts you? You're frustrated because you're a hypocrite, so the world will never make sense to you.

If you follow the rules because you like the tracker and enjoy the community, fine. If you do it out of ethical motivation, you're a fool. And if you think anyone should do the same, you're delusional.

[stoi]

So on the flip side of that argument then.

because you break the law by pirating, you think that murder and rape are fine, its only a law after all, and as you break 1 you may as well break the lot, right?

and us tracker owners have nothing to do with creating music, games, movies etc, but i am sure if we did, we would give the stuff we done away. and this is about someone breaking the rules on things we have created, its not like if you dont pay you cant download, its breaking very simple rules, and just just etiquet.

so no i/we am/are not a hypocrite.

[IdolEyes787]

You don't seem to understand that the fundamental difference is that you signed on the dotted line with a tracker and gave your word saying that you will will not do such and such.
With copyright infringement I don't ever remember making such a promise.

Btw ethics and Law are two entirely different things. Some Laws are unethical and some ethics are unlawful.
To say that you are ethical simply by choosing to obey every Law the makes you either delusional or just fool.

[charliebitme]

This with socially acceptance/moral/ethics and laws reminds me of two swedish artists in an interview about illegal filesharing. They compared illegal filesharing to bestialty by saying something like "bestiality,fucking with animals, is legal but not socially accepted. Illegal filesharing is illegal but socially accepted".
It was banned from TV,lol:D

[pone44]

You don't seem to understand that the fundamental difference is that you signed on the dotted line with a tracker and gave your word saying that you will will not do such and such.
With copyright infringement I don't ever remember making such a promise.
:lol: Good point.

Everyone has broke a law or two even if they did not mean to.


This with socially acceptance/moral/ethics and laws reminds me of two swedish artists in an interview about illegal filesharing. They compared illegal filesharing to bestialty by saying something like "bestiality,fucking with animals, is legal but not socially accepted. Illegal filesharing is illegal but socially accepted".
It was banned from TV,lol:D

Btw
bestiality is disgusting to me. Could not compare that to downloading TV shows, movies , things that are legal to film in the 1st place. My 2 cents at least.

And yes some people are defective. Every watch the news? :P

[1000possibleclaws]

Private trackers are just a means of getting warez fast and early while ensuring quality. The rules are there to make sure this system works. If you find a rule that do nothing to help keep the system running clean then yes it's probably unnecessary and go ahead and break it. But as long as they are rules you might get caught, piss off someone, and get booted. Or maybe they'll realize it's a useless rule. But from what I've seen rules for the most part make sense (keep ratio, etc..) are are there solely to keep the system in place running smoothly.

Most rules are not hypocritical, but practical.

[orfik]

You don't seem to understand that the fundamental difference is that you signed on the dotted line with a tracker and gave your word saying that you will will not do such and such.
With copyright infringement I don't ever remember making such a promise.

Btw ethics and Law are two entirely different things. Some Laws are unethical and some ethics are unlawful.
To say that you are ethical simply by choosing to obey every Law the makes you either delusional or just fool.

I didn't sign anything when I joined any tracker. Do you think a click-box is equivalent to a signature? Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.

Please don't say such stupid things. Depending on what country you live in, you may have made such a promise. Take me: As a citizen of the US, I am explicitly bound by certain federal, state and international laws. There's no dotted line to sign -- you're born into these contracts. Have you ever purchased copyrighted material? Did you read the agreement printed on the packaging? There's your "promise" again, and you agree to it by paying.

Ah..I'm a hypocrite? How is that? I'm aware of the laws affecting what I do, and I break them. And then I can't help but laugh when the people breaking them with me fall into the same ridiculous pattern as the RIAA and MPAA. Your rules don't mean anything. Enjoy your free music, software, books, games and movies, you moral crusaders.

[pone44]

When you buy something online you click or type to make the purchase. Basically that is your digital signature.
Your right on the fact that ethics and law are not the same thing. far from. What is your point about a contract with a tracker? You sign up and follow the rules or get the boot. What is your point?



I didn't sign anything when I joined any tracker. Do you think a click-box is equivalent to a signature? Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.

[IdolEyes787]

Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.



I thought the whole point of your post was to do with ethics .The fact that they " can't hold you to it" has remarkably little to do with those .

Also you seem to be presuming that I'm not of the opinion that what we do is stealing .I'm well aware of that fact but if I thought for a minute that what I was doing was really harming anyone I would stop.

See that another instance of the difference between ethics and Laws.
Ethics allow choice Laws do not.

I don't know why you seem unable to wrap your head around the difference between the two?

Btw I live in Canada where at the present it still isn't against the Law to fileshare so everything you are saying is moot anyway.

[orfik]

Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.



I thought the whole point of your post was to do with ethics .The fact that they " can't hold you to it" has remarkably little to do with those .

Also you seem to be presuming that I'm not of the opinion that what we do is stealing .I'm well aware of that fact but if I thought for a minute that what I was doing was really harming anyone I would stop.

See that another instance of the difference between ethics and Laws.
Ethics allow choice Laws do not.

I don't know why you seem unable to wrap your head around the difference between the two?

Btw I live in Canada where at the present it still isn't against the Law to fileshare so everything you are saying is moot anyway.

It does concern ethics. So, filesharing is legal in Canada. Well, guess what, so is cheating bittorrent trackers, trading accounts, and selling accounts. So it becomes an ethical decision, no? Then tell me why you feel someone should obey the agreement they make with a tracker, and not the agreement they make with the software and games manufacturers or the MPAA and RIAA?

If your answer is something ignorant like "because you'll get booted if you don't", then why make threads whining about it? Justice will be served.

[realityhd]

I didn't sign anything when I joined any tracker. Do you think a click-box is equivalent to a signature? Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.



My monitor is covered in ink from signing for my online purchases, so forgive me if I read that wrong, but 1) there is a contract, with the torrents given in consideration of your acceptance of the rules, 2) or there is no consideration and therefore no contract, 3) or perhaps consideration is an antiquated concept so it does not matter, 4) maybe there is a contract, but it is unenforceable because it is contrary to law, and any judge would leave you both in pari delicto, 5) but there is one thing for certain, clicking is acceptance of the terms and conditions on a torrent site just as they are on an ecommerce site.

[pone44]

:ermm:


Justice will be served.
?

[orfik]

I didn't sign anything when I joined any tracker. Do you think a click-box is equivalent to a signature? Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.



My monitor is covered in ink from signing for my online purchases, so forgive me if I read that wrong, but 1) there is a contract, with the torrents given in consideration of your acceptance of the rules, 2) or there is no consideration and therefore no contract, 3) or perhaps consideration is an antiquated concept so it does not matter, 4) maybe there is a contract, but it is unenforceable because it is contrary to law, and any judge would leave you both in pari delicto, 5) but there is one thing for certain, clicking is acceptance of the terms and conditions on a torrent site just as they are on an ecommerce site.

That sort of ignorant thinking really makes my head hurt..

[IdolEyes787]

It does concern ethics. So, filesharing is legal in Canada. Well, guess what, so is cheating bittorrent trackers, trading accounts, and selling accounts. So it becomes an ethical decision, no? Then tell me why you feel someone should obey the agreement they make with a tracker, and not the agreement they make with the software and games manufacturers or the MPAA and RIAA?

If your answer is something ignorant like "because you'll get booted if you don't", then why make threads whining about it? Justice will be served.

My answer is something ignorant like " because I'd like my word to actually mean something"

Argue all you want about legalities but I never willing gave me word to any entertainment corporation.
To illustrate the difference : you order me not to hit you and I still do .Would that ethically be same thing as me promising not to hit you and then doing it?

Or maybe it all just comes down to you being comfortable with lying while I am not.

Btw you've already called me stupid and ignorant want to add retarded for the trifecta and really demonstrate your class?

[orfik]

Congratulations. Enjoy your petty moral high-ground. You're stupid because you expect other criminals to accept your self-indulgent contradictions. You never willingly gave your word...grow up. Would you sell this garbage to a jury?

[pone44]

Who are you to judge? Would you sell your useless posts to a jury? Going by what you wrote in some other posts are a criminal yourself. As you do participate in filesharing. Or are you just a hypocrite?


Congratulations. Enjoy your petty moral high-ground. You're stupid because you expect other criminals to accept your self-indulgent contradictions. You never willingly gave your word...grow up. Would you sell this garbage to a jury?

[IdolEyes787]

Congratulations. Enjoy your petty moral high-ground. You're stupid because you expect other criminals to accept your self-indulgent contradictions. You never willingly gave your word...grow up. Would you sell this garbage to a jury?


I will thank you :) and I will sleep the sleep of the righteous:01:



Petty moral high ground :lol: . I wish I was smart enough to say something like that .Wait let me try ,how about "unimportant essential" or " fertility barren ".:lol:.

[megabyteme]

Thanks, orfik! You, more than anyone, have answered my thread title. Very well, I might add.

[ahmet]

I agree.

[NippleCake]

I agree.

Yep, me too. :mellow:








:ermm:

[l33tpirata13]

Autism imo.

Honestly though, I believe it has all and everything to do with levels. Levels, levels, and more levels. That WTAW thread should seriously be removed.

I believe with a little bit of effort on sites such as demonoid or IPT, you can work your way up to TL. Great speeds and content, incredibly easy to seed. For the average user, you will never need more content than whats there. Maybe if you are particularly interested in certain content, you could find a niche tracker such as bmtv, bcg, whatever to fit your interest. But when people see WTAW threads and drool over sites such as UK-T, FTN, FTWR which they will probably never ever get in their lifetime, they turn to trading.

Trading results from being unable to access their "leet" and "rare" sites. Threads like WTAW overhype and glorify rare trackers, even when they may have less content and worse speeds than more common ones. In response, these leet sites cut off invites even more to combat traders and collectors, just exacerbating the problem even more.

As for cheaters, some people are just lazy. But it also has to do with this craze to get into higher trackers, where 99% of the users have seedboxes, and they don't know how to seed after coming off demonoid with a 500 ratio. What do they do then to download from their favorite rare tracker? Cheat =/

PS: It is very disheartening to spend a good couple of minutes thinking and typing out a post, only to submit it and see its only a fraction of the size of your massive post :(

i honestly dont care what you have to say after you "ASSume" autism has a role in being a "defective" person on this forum. Thats ignorant. you're ignorant for even thinkin that was an "ok" joke (if that was a pathetic attempt at a laugh).