Let's talk about BT

[Intr4ns1t]

So, in light of the discussion going on in another thread, I thought I would start a thread for everyone to express what they think about this big ball of hobby that is called torrenting. I'll post some questions, but I'm not asking for a list of answers, more your thoughts on the way the bigger circle of society revolving around trackers looks to you. The questions are just there as an idea of what focus I'd like to see this discussion center around.

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

I don't know if this is just too general a subject for discussion here, but I'd really like to get a wide view of what people think about this thing we do, and would only ask that people keep it about BT and stay civil.

[KushBlow]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

I don't know if this is just too general a subject for discussion here, but I'd really like to get a wide view of what people think about this thing we do, and would only ask that people keep it about BT and stay civil.

Nice thread mate. Due to the long lineup at the store I will take the liberty to answer your inquiries.

I use BT to download, interact with people that are fun to be around, and act intelligent.

The ideal tracker for me is a tracker that has everything essential - speed, content, etc. - along with no stress regarding checking your ratio and stats every 5 seconds, and with a great community that varies in personalities.

Yes the tracker I'm on fulfills all my needs.

It differs for every person. I think the general rule is if you're less active on trackers because of other trackers it's too much. For me 2-5 is ideal.

Not sure about the 'politics' and morals of BT, after all I treat it as a hobby, not a government. I just follow the rules and try to have fun while doing so.

Thanks for killing 10 minutes of the wal-mart lineup, good sir.

[kallieb]

hmm.. that's quite the list.

1. I use BT daily. I have no cable, haven't been to the cinema in years, refuse to pay for a movie rental - and I love film. So yes, if it weren't for the fact that I love watching a good film, or TV series, or what have you, I probably would not torrent.

2. An ideal tracker is one where: You get help when you need it. Staff and members interact and you share laughs and ideas about film and other oddities of life. Requests are filled. Thanks to uploads are granted, and the content of the site is unique to the interests of the user. often this results in users expanding out to other dedicated trackers for other interests: tv sites, MMA sites, e-books and such.

3 Volume of trackers is in relation to use I suppose. Why does one need with 10 0-day sites??? Particularly if the content is pretty much the same. After a bit of trial and error, I would think it makes sense to close off one's account to those trackers that aren't meeting your needs and stick with the ones that do. Over time, i've developed an approach of using smaller, dedicated trackers depending upon need. For example, I have a wii tracker that I recently signed up to for games - as all I have is a wii and its perfect for me :) I won't be a heavy user as I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I know that when I want to grab a wii torrent I know where to go. The few other sites I have are for music, TV, and movies/apps. That's about it. There is no number to great or to small. What matters is that it is used. Sitting on an account that you don't use at all is rather stupid imho.

4. Politics of BT.. hmm.. I'm guessing part of this comes from how sites are run. If so, my thoughts on that are I am not a site owner, and part of belonging to a site is respecting the rules. If the rules aren't working for an individual user than make suggestions on site. If your suggestions are tossed, try to work with it still, if it still doesn't work - move on. It's their house, they set the rules. There are enough sites out there where everyone can find something that works for them. As far as the politics out there, I think the obsession with having the bigger e-penis is a bit ridiculous, and more evident in those users who either haven't progressed and matured in finding a niche in the sites out there, or don't want to because they like the ego-stroking that comes with bragging. There's loads of asshats out there who care not for the site they belong to, but only care to brag about what site they belong to. Those type are just bottom feeders and n00bs. They're everywhere in life, why not in BT land. oh well.. :)

5. Morales.. Not to many, but consideration and respect are two. First off, you respect the rules of the tracker. Non-negotiable. Reasons said above already - it's their house, you don't like it, i guess you'll eventually have to go elsewhere. Other rules: Say thanks to those who share, offer help when you can, fill a request if you're able, don't bail on a seed if you're the last one, and check in on teh site regularly enough to at least demonstrate that you're not taking up space on the tracker for ego - but that you actually want to be there.

That's it off the top of my head . Should be an interesting convo. Let the talks begin :)

[Intr4ns1t]

trackers because of other trackers it's too much. For me 2-5 is ideal.

Not sure about the 'politics' and morals of BT, after all I treat it as a hobby, not a government. I just follow the rules and try to have fun while doing so.

Thanks for killing 10 minutes of the wal-mart, good sir.

Not a problem :P


As far as politics, they are aren't exclusive to government. And we exhibit moral decisions in everything we do that involves other people. So I guess I should ask if your personal morals extend to torrenting, and how do they translate to BT for you?


4. Politics of BT.. hmm.. I'm guessing part of this comes from how sites are run. If so, my thoughts on that are I am not a site owner, and part of belonging to a site is respecting the rules. If the rules aren't working for an individual user than make suggestions on site. If your suggestions are tossed, try to work with it still, if it still doesn't work - move on. It's their house, they set the rules. There are enough sites out there where everyone can find something that works for them. As far as the politics out there, I think the obsession with having the bigger e-penis is a bit ridiculous, and more evident in those users who either haven't progressed and matured in finding a niche in the sites out there, or don't want to because they like the ego-stroking that comes with bragging. There's loads of asshats out there who care not for the site they belong to, but only care to brag about what site they belong to. Those type are just bottom feeders and n00bs. They're everywhere in life, why not in BT land. oh well..


I'm talking about the greater BT community and how people interact with each other on focus sites like FST, TPS, TR, IC, CFS, all the "invite sections" on individual trackers, and anywhere that large numbers of active torrenters interact. Often times our actions and opinions follow us from site to site, as there is a bigger community out there, and we are answerable to it if we ever get involved in the social aspect of torrenting. http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../images/smilies/smile.gif

[mrnobody]

By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are

steal w/o getting caught :whistling

[Duckater]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

I don't know if this is just too general a subject for discussion here, but I'd really like to get a wide view of what people think about this thing we do, and would only ask that people keep it about BT and stay civil.


Use bitorrent regularly and down load films, tv shows, music and other things that I think of interest from time to time. I also go on some sites just for the community and chat and very rarely download from them, these tend to be lasser known trackers with sign ups open most the time as I find them more suited to me.

I really dont think one site is totally ideal as I like chatting/interacting with different people that are now friends that are not all on the same site.

I am on probabale to many trackers but the majority of those fall into the lesser known/smaller tracker section and mostly used to chat.

Well my views on BT and its politics might upset a few people but here goes BT to means sharing and that means knowledge and helping people not just the files, I also disagree with sites that have rules stating you cannot upload there files else whereat the end of the day they may pay for axx and servers but that is paid for in most part by donations, some sites are reported to actually make a profit, and the people who upload else where are possible donating as a thank you. I can honestly say I have no problems if some uploads stuff on there site if they have got it from GTi.

The other side of politics in BT is how people behave in places such as here I think there are too many people that think an e-penis is more important than there real lives. People come here to promote their sites and a lot of them get bashed by people who have not even had the good manners to even look at the sites, in fact some one actually said in the other thread that smaller 0day sites should all close and I am betting he has not visited many of the smaller sites where 95% + of there uploads are scene releases. I am on several of those called sites and admit I have no real need to torrent scene stuff but really enjoy the communities on them and the fact the staff are generally very helpful (there of course exceptsions to this).

[Intr4ns1t]

By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are

steal w/o getting caught :whistling

Points for succinctness :happy:


I think there are too many people that think an e-penis is more important than there real lives.

Doesn't that carry over the entire online world though? It's all in the translation to this focal point instead of whatever other hobby or interest that community is centered around. Or is it really different in BT compared to say, the online MMA community which has alot of shared members through different discussion boards. Or a videogame modding community and all the things that would come from that. Call it a sign of the times I guess.

It could be any thing really, but that drive for status is pretty universal I think. I guess with the fact that there is a commodity involved, namely all that shit we steal w/o getting caught, it gets a heightened sense of passion from those involved.

[Duckater]

steal w/o getting caught :whistling

Points for succinctness :happy:


I think there are too many people that think an e-penis is more important than there real lives.

Doesn't that carry over the entire online world though? It's all in the translation to this focal point instead of whatever other hobby or interest that community is centered around. Or is it really different in BT compared to say, the online MMA community which has alot of shared members through different discussion boards. Or a videogame modding community and all the things that would come from that. Call it a sign of the times I guess.

It could be any thing really, but that drive for status is pretty universal I think. I guess with the fact that there is a commodity involved, namely all that shit we steal w/o getting caught, it gets a heightened sense of passion from those involved.

Not so sure about ones you mentioned but I ran chat rooms on msn for 5 yrs before they closed them and a few people on there tried to act as tho they where special due to having chat rooms above othr peoples but that was the minority most of the other people running them where not so elitist and members of the rooms did not proclaim to be better than others due to fact they could get into rooms near the top.
I have spoke with quiet a few owners/staff of torrent sites and being 100% honest weather they on a 1337 site or a low level site they are, in the majority, level headed descent people. When it comes to some of members of 1337 sites they seem to brag about it and that gets to me as they are no more special for getting on the 1337 sites to the people who are on low level or even sites that have not been mentioned here.

I have been on several of the sites that are considered 1337, and I was on them before I even joined here and found out they where 1337, and it did not alter my attitude towards those sites against the ones who aint considered 1337. I do feel that it is places that rate the sites and the members of those sites that cause the issues not the owners/staff.

I think the owners/staff of any site deservers respect if they act in a decent manner and conduct them selves right on other trackers and places like here.

The real geniouses to me are the people that write the codes that are used in the torrent world as with out them where would we be :)

[1000possibleclaws]

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?




A tracker with lots of good quality music that I like, and yes I got something like that as pretty much my first ever tracker. It's awesome-ness was what got me into checking out other private trackers.

[nemrac]

So, in light of the discussion going on in another thread, I thought I would start a thread for everyone to express what they think about this big ball of hobby that is called torrenting. I'll post some questions, but I'm not asking for a list of answers, more your thoughts on the way the bigger circle of society revolving around trackers looks to you. The questions are just there as an idea of what focus I'd like to see this discussion center around.

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

I don't know if this is just too general a subject for discussion here, but I'd really like to get a wide view of what people think about this thing we do, and would only ask that people keep it about BT and stay civil.

Intr4ns1t, very interesting thread. I'll try to answer some of your questions as I ramble on with some thoughts.

To begin, a lot of people call Bit Torrenting a hobby. That's fine, but i think that's just a crutch or a safety blanket people use to comfort themselves from the truth that they are breaking the law. Most people here do it, but i don't believe that saying it's a 'hobby' makes it any less wrong. I hear the 'hobby' description a lot in satellite pirating circles. People buy hardware and program it to get free HBO or pron and justify it as a 'hobby'. If that gets you through the day - great, but it's not a 'hobby' you're just stealing. I know I probably will get flamed, but it's the truth. BT is a great way to get what you want. I use BT almost exclusively. It's convenient, somewhat anonymous and generally viewed as a safer way to get anything and everything.

There are tons of trackers out there. Some better then others. Generally, I seem to be able to find mainstream apps, movies and TV on all of them. You can go on the main torrent page of the big 'l33t' trackers and find almost identical listings. Example - Entourage airs Sunday nights on HBO. A few hours later it's on ScL, PTN, FTN, etc... within minutes of each other. So do you really need 10, 20, 30 trackers? Maybe? Maybe Not. Most tracker forums are very similar too. The same discussions, topics, etc...

I belong to several trackers. Sometimes I find it hard to participate in all the different forums. Other times I have to share the downloading so that I am active at all of them. I download one thing from Tracker A, another thing from Tracker B and so forth even thou I could have got all of it from one place. It almost becomes a chore.

As for 'morals', some times it's funny to read some of the posts here. People calling others unethical or bad or traders or whatever as they hide behind their computers secretly 'getting' stuff via BT. It's like the murderer calling the rapist evil. We're all doing something wrong - we just try to justify it by saying the big record companies or movie studios are greedy evil people and it's our right to take what we want.

Just some thoughts....

[sear]

Nice thread mate.


Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

I started using BT just as a means to get media that's not available to me. Where I live it takes a long time for good things to come out. It's gotten better but when I started it wasn't uncommon for movies to be about a year behind the US pretty much the same for music while TV could take 2-3 years if it ever arrives at all. Once I learned about filesharing I started using Napster though that was at the end of its run and I quickly moved on to Kazza (gnutella) and when that turned to shit I started using BT.

I pretty much still use BT for those reasons though I like the community and interaction it entails that other forms of file sharing haven't offered me.


What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

The ideal tracker for me is one that has the content I want to download within a reasonable time frame at reasonable speeds without sacrificing what I see as the spirit of sharing. By that I mean I'm not interested in money making p2l p2i sites that spend thousands a month on their scene access and servers just to be a second or two faster than their competitors. Even worse are the few sites that are actually geared towards making money. That for me is completely evil and turns BT from sharing into stealing.

And yes my needs are filled quite nicely, but then again I've been around a while so I would expect them to be.


Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

IMO I'm on too many trackers. I've culled them down over the years and I have a few that I use regularly. The rest that I haven't abandoned I keep because of personal relationships.

Generally I think 5-6 trackers is about right. You'll want two 0-day in case one goes down then a few that are specialised to meet your particular needs. In my case I have a few music trackers. One that has everything and others that specialise in the type of music I like to listen to. On top of that you'll want a good user upload site for interesting different content and of course demonoid for all the rare stuff you can't find.

There is a tendency for people to become obsessed with getting on as many trackers as they can. Members always think the next tracker could have that upload the others don't and when you first get on the BT scene you'll find that you quickly have 20-30.

Now most people will look at this and say to themselves well they actually all have the same stuff and I don't really need all these sites to fulfill my needs and start letting them go inactive. Others however get caught up in level chasing and treat them like Pokemon cards for collecting and trading.

I actually see it as a kind of sickness and it's done a lot of harm to the BT world. People never end up giving back to the communities they're members of and just do the bare minimum. It's actually quite sad because there are some good friendships to be had and it can be quite satisfying to focus your efforts and see a positive result.

There's also the tendency to allow this hobby to interfere with RL. If you can't find that balance then get out now. Nothing on torrents is worth sacrificing a second of real life for.


What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Now this is a massive question. I'm going to try not to go into a long rant on the politics of BT, but it's a doozy.

The worst part of BT is the ugly side of the politics and the egos. Too many times I've seen people's character assassinated and the massive shit storms that ensue can I admit be fun to watch but are sickening to be a part of. I guess it comes down to a large group of people interacting. Once that happens you're bound to have some ugly politics because lets face it the world is full of people with low scruples or who are just downright vindictive.

Part of the problem as I see it is the age and maturity level of members of the community. As the age of BT users has gotten younger and it's become the dominant form of file sharing the politics have become much harsher and there's a tendency to gang up on people much like in high school. Personally I try to stay out of it, but that's not always possible for whatever reason.


Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

Yes I think there is personal ethos and morals to be adhered too as part of this community. It's important that people (particularly site staff) treat everyone with respect and as a fellow human. It's too easy to start writing people off because you're in a position of power or even just because you're sitting behind a computer.

For me it's all about treating people as I want to be treated, but I guess that attitude is important for all aspects of life not just this online hobby. When it comes to getting along in the BT world remember sharing is caring ;)

Thanks again for the good topic mate it's been quite some time since I've been inspired to actually write a post on this board that's more than one line or isn't because someone made me angry.

[Albo Da Kid]

Intr4ns1t, thanks for opening such a thread.. After all the innactivity and unproductive threads that have been going here lately, this is what was missing

I don't have time atm to reply or read everyone's opinion but I'm definitely going to drop by later and throw in a few paraghraphs of my history with bt

[Funkin']

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

I use it to illegally download any copyrighted material that I want.

I don't use bittorrent as much as I once did since I've kind of moved on to other methods of file sharing. But I still download from a tracker usually once or twice a week.

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

My ideal tracker is one that would have every single file that I, personally, would ever be interested in. Combined with nice and understanding staff, and without having to worry about ratio requirements.

And no. There's not one single tracker that exists(not even Demonoid) that has every single file that I would ever want. I do belong to a tracker or two that have some of THE nicest and most understanding staff that you could ever want, along with basically no heavy ratio requirements. But no tracker will ever have all the content that I'm interested in.

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

Yes. I am on more than enough of trackers. I personally think a handful of trackers is all a person needs to belong to. One tracker, maybe two, for each type of content that you are interested in is more than enough. These people that belong to ten, twenty, or more trackers are, well...obviously collecting. There's no need to be a member at that many sites.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

"Bt politics" interest me none. I just do my thing and try to stay within the rules of each tracker I belong to(whether I agree with them or not).

By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

I think kallieb said it best with consideration and respect.

Nice thread.

[Intr4ns1t]

To begin, a lot of people call Bit Torrenting a hobby. That's fine, but i think that's just a crutch or a safety blanket people use to comfort themselves from the truth that they are breaking the law.


This point is part of why I included the "moral" question, as all of it is based on the fact that we are unequivocally stealing. There is an accompanying excitement when you start stealing better, faster, longer higher quality, so it's really no surprise that people get worked up I guess. The question becomes what lengths would you go to sate a desire for rebelliousness and the rush that comes from it. But that's kind of veering toward human psychology and prolly left out of this thread for now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t
What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Now this is a massive question. I'm going to try not to go into a long rant on the politics of BT, but it's a doozy.

The worst part of BT is the ugly side of the politics and the egos. Too many times I've seen people's character assassinated and the massive shit storms that ensue can I admit be fun to watch but are sickening to be a part of. I guess it comes down to a large group of people interacting. Once that happens you're bound to have some ugly politics because lets face it the world is full of people with low scruples or who are just downright vindictive.

Part of the problem as I see it is the age and maturity level of members of the community. As the age of BT users has gotten younger and it's become the dominant form of file sharing the politics have become much harsher and there's a tendency to gang up on people much like in high school. Personally I try to stay out of it, but that's not always possible for whatever reason.


First off, awesome post sear, and yeah the politics is a doozy indeed :P As I see it, politics is natural. It's the execution that leaves something to be desired and I fully agree that the boom of BT has dramaticly lowered the mean age of torrenters, and hell even staffers for that matter. Not to disparage any younger members, but with age often comes the experience to know how to respond in different circumstances.

So how to temper that lack of experience? I personally try to be at least a moderate role model ( not trying to sound self righteous, really) for newer members of the BT world in the hopes that it'll sink in and help raise the quality of everyones interactions. I know there are a few folks that inhabit this section here and other forums as well, that do try to be a betterment to the bt community, and they are often the people that have been around for a good bit of time. Now, I'm no perfect example by any stretch of the imagination, but I try, and that is important to me. Most likely it's the sole reason I still enjoy this "hobby".


IMO I'm on too many trackers. I've culled them down over the years and I have a few that I use regularly. The rest that I haven't abandoned I keep because of personal relationships.

Generally I think 5-6 trackers is about right. You'll want two 0-day in case one goes down then a few that are specialised to meet your particular needs. In my case I have a few music trackers. One that has everything and others that specialise in the type of music I like to listen to. On top of that you'll want a good user upload site for interesting different content and of course demonoid for all the rare stuff you can't find.

There is a tendency for people to become obsessed with getting on as many trackers as they can. Members always think the next tracker could have that upload the others don't and when you first get on the BT scene you'll find that you quickly have 20-30.

Now most people will look at this and say to themselves well they actually all have the same stuff and I don't really need all these sites to fulfill my needs and start letting them go inactive. Others however get caught up in level chasing and treat them like Pokemon cards for collecting and trading.

I actually see it as a kind of sickness and it's done a lot of harm to the BT world. People never end up giving back to the communities they're members of and just do the bare minimum. It's actually quite sad because there are some good friendships to be had and it can be quite satisfying to focus your efforts and see a positive result.

There's also the tendency to allow this hobby to interfere with RL. If you can't find that balance then get out now. Nothing on torrents is worth sacrificing a second of real life for.

It's a huge leap from mininova to any of the myriad of private trackers that exist now and that search can be a very consuming one. I'm glad you point out the obsession factor that has to play some sort of role in how things happen especially when people get very passionate about that search.

Honesty with ourselves in how much is too much is hard to achieve when we get our eyes on a prize, and if that prize is as vaporous as the "best tracker in the world" we can maybe never know if we found that perfect place. I guess you know it when you see it.

That last bit you wrote makes me wonder where the line lays between interference and accessorization. I mean, as time progresses, life in a good portion of the world is fast becoming intrinsicly tied to the internet, and real life is intertwining with it like vines intermingling on a trellis. Makes me wonder...


What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

My ideal tracker is one that would have every single file that I, personally, would ever be interested in. Combined with nice and understanding staff, and without having to worry about ratio requirements.

And no. There's not one single tracker that exists(not even Demonoid) that has every single file that I would ever want. I do belong to a tracker or two that have some of THE nicest and most understanding staff that you could ever want, along with basically no heavy ratio requirements. But no tracker will ever have all the content that I'm interested in.

I like your answer as I think it's an honest one and a demonstration of the fact that no tracker is perfect. There will always be something, even if we don't know what it is at the time we ask ourselves that question, that any site is lacking. How picky we are determines when we feel we've got what we want?

[sear]

So how to temper that lack of experience? I personally try to be at least a moderate role model ( not trying to sound self righteous, really) for newer members of the BT world in the hopes that it'll sink in and help raise the quality of everyones interactions. I know there are a few folks that inhabit this section here and other forums as well, that do try to be a betterment to the bt community, and they are often the people that have been around for a good bit of time. Now, I'm no perfect example by any stretch of the imagination, but I try, and that is important to me. Most likely it's the sole reason I still enjoy this "hobby".

Indeed there are some people in BT that have an amazing amount of knowledge and experience, whether it be technical personal or both. I know some of the people that I've looked up to (and still do) have taught me some really valuable lessons that I've transported to my real life.

Leading by example is all we can do to try and raise the bar.


That last bit you wrote makes me wonder where the line lays between interference and accessorization. I mean, as time progresses, life in a good portion of the world is fast becoming intrinsicly tied to the internet, and real life is intertwining with it like vines intermingling on a trellis. Makes me wonder...

I often think about this too I think as time goes on the lines will become more and more blurred. It's an interesting new world we're forging for ourselves here.

Realistically though it can become a problem for many people (myself included). I guess it's a personal thing but for me when I'm spending more time online then I am hanging out with my family or going to parties and pubs and just generally socializing then that's how I know I need to take a step back.

[Eargasm]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?
I'm an absolute media hog, and I can occasionally get stuck in a collecting mode where I try to collect media and sites and everything. I just hoard data. Then I reach a point where I ask myself what the benefit of that is in relation to time spent - then I take a break from the acquisition... but not from downloading media. I can't get enough of that.


What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?
The thing I love about bit torrent is that it's never about one tracker. It's the hydra, baby. Yes, I have pretty much what I need in all my trackers though.

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?
Too many trackers is when you spend more time logging into each tracker and trying to get invites than you do perusing the contents and actually using the buggers. I've done this before when I was using something like 47 trackers on a weekly basis.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?
As far as I know, bit torrent is not illegal. So doesn't affect me.

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.
The morals are share, leech, and spread the joy. Pretty simple.

[Glitterstep]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?


Initially i started off with Emule for my music!!..But then the best part about BT trackers like TT,Elek and TR are the Forums....maybe i don't post much out there,but its really fun reading those posts/comments which users post on every EP release!!
....Alos use BT for movies....but main priority would be Music,coz i got into "Torrenting mainly for EDM"..



What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

An Ideal tracker for ME would be a tracker with a good content of EDM.
Yup!!More than satisfied to be a member of those sites



Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

Trackers which gets me what i need,are basically enough for me!!...

Too many trackers in the sense people being a member on it and not using it all..a file on elek gets snatched only like 20 times,when there are more than 5000 members out there...most of them are either collectors and traders...its really frustrating to see a good release getting snatched only 20 times....



What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

..Have no idea about this at all!!

[ovisan]

Nice read sear.

Nothing on torrents is worth sacrificing a second of real life for. I agree but a passion it's still s passion and for some of us this is all that we have for now. All of us like to hide between masks, we like to create/re-create an image about ourselves the way we would like us to be. This is way we spend ages posting in forums, chatting in irc channels and so on. It's the need of identity and I think that when you gain more and more BT friends gives you a dose of self esteem, that, sooner or later, will help us in real life too.

Now to quickly go thought Intr4ns1t's questions I will tell you that I use BT only because I still can't afford to pay 20 quid for a film I 'll stop watching after the first 10 minutes or for a game that will end up in the atic the next week.
My ideal tracker...it's a toght one, hmm... I used to really like file**st.org because they were only uploading filles that I wanted, that's for oday and it's forums were friendly and active. Now, like most of today's BT users i like P*N because I ve realised I don't need any of the 0day stuff and I love to discover new-old films I ve never seen before. Thanks Intr4ns1t. And to answer your question the ideal tracker for me would be a union between demoniod, P*N and old fil**ist.org.
I was a member of way to many treackers imo. It hurt when I was deleting trackers from my bookmarks and others were begging for an invite here on fst for their "dream" tracker. Now I only use one 0day tracker, one music tracker, 2 films trackers and demonoid but not as often. I had enought of all them ratio problems, silly new staffers on new trackers... in one word BT drama. Now I like to chill out on safe trackers, posting among friends, really enjoy a forum and a tracker. "and what do you think is too many trackers?" what does that supose to mean ?:P
We should never forghet that what we're doing its illegal and one day it may cost us. Most of us respect BT rules which I dont consider too harsh but it's silly to think that we'll all do it, its just like asking a murderer not to steal.
The "morals" of BT... Do we all agree with Robin Hood and his actions? I bet anyone reading this is so BT (illegal filesharing) its a win against multi billion corporations who don't even have the decency to give us back a bit of quallity we paid for.

Scuse My French
Tara

[Intr4ns1t]

Thanks for all the input folks, I do love a good discussion :)



I agree but a passion it's still s passion and for some of us this is all that we have for now. All of us like to hide between masks, we like to create/re-create an image about ourselves the way we would like us to be. This is way we spend ages posting in forums, chatting in irc channels and so on. It's the need of identity and I think that when you gain more and more BT friends gives you a dose of self esteem, that, sooner or later, will help us in real life too.

I think that's a very good observation. Especially when talking about the newer discoverers of the community side of bit torrent, and the likelihood that they are younger, still looking for their real "self". Voices carry far in this type of communication, and to find your own voice in the midst can really help hone your ability to socialize in real life. I have to say though, that it's an insightful person that sees that end in the things they do and say at trackers and forums.

The worth is in the reward of kudos when you help someone who needs it, or being treated according to what you give, not what you look like. Cumulative respect is a great ego boost, but it's easy to overvalue that respect when you get it too quickly, resulting in e-peen syndrome.

[Benjamin]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.


I use bittorent to download free stuff, obviously. I also feel more organized having everything on my computer.

My ideal tracker would have a lot of seeders/leechers, all the content I need, great speeds, and members with torrent experience. Maybe if you took ScT and added the content and members of 3-4 of my other sites, then you would have the perfect tracker.

I am on more than enough trackers, I don't even know how I ended up with so many. I remember about 3 years ago I was only on torrent damage downloading my ass off, I was so happy. But over the years you get offered sites that promise something different, then when you join them you realize you won't use any of the content at all.

I don't get involved in politics (e-drama), I just chill.

First of all torrenting is stealing, whether you sugar coat it or not, and therefore you can't really say there are morals in BT. There's being smart, and being stupid.

[sez]

Nice discourse you have going on here :)


Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?





On those rare instants that i'll be on a BT client i'll probably be leeching 0-day material.0-day because its what interests me and its what led me to torrents in the first place plus as of recently,it tends to collect more points if am to re-share on warez by upping to a one click host such as rapidshare.


What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?





As you can see,my bar isn't set as high so any good general tracker is more than ideal for me,in which case there exists a plethora although fast pres are a necessity especially when am of the intention to share on RS.This coupled with forum activity that actually interests me puts S*C as my camelot and chalisto as the guy who brought it to me for which am thankful of him.


What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?





I've seen a couple of people say that the politics isn't of any significance to them.In which case i'll assume that its upto personal interpretation coz in as far as I know,a people who aren't interested in their politics are a people who either don't care or aren't as connected with their community as they are supposed to be.Sort of like young people with elections and yes it does affect how I torrent.


Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.





Fact is what we do is illegal but its not necessarily a 'crime'.Even the RIAA knows this.Alot of us probably use pot as much as its proscribed yet we still make good people in our societies.So this notion that a code of conduct is fallacious given that piracy is considered to be outside the law(law that is always subject to change and interpretation)is just wrong.

As to what the ethos entail,its pretty much common sense given that the polarity between wrong and right is crystal.
Though i'll put more emphasis on respect as is in being a two way traffic.It works in maximum security lock-ups with murderers and rapists so I don't see why it shouldn't with mere illegal file sharers.

One more thing,if you have the money it really doesn't hurt to buy.$0.99 is not that expensive to pay for music.

But just my opinion.

[onlinetragedy]

I use bittorrent because im too cheap to actually buy all the stuff i want. Besudes this is much more convenient.

S*T is prolly the best for me(tv shows, movies, some games). S*C is basically interchangeable with it except S*T gets some soccer games for me once in a while. For a bigtime action movies ill head over to hdbits for a proper high qual user rip. For most music i use what. BCG, KG, TT and bitme round out my other needs.

I'm lookin for one or two more trackers that have eluded me for some time.

I really don't care what politicians say I don't trust any of em.

Morals of BT? Keep seeding for a couple weeks and don't hide some malware in your ups.

BT will live on forever. Distributed file sharing systems cannot be stopped. It might have to evolve but the idea will be the same. (Such as using http prot)


Love all my torrenters! ;D

[mrnobody]

Fact is what we do is illegal but its not necessarily a 'crime'.

the very definition of 'crime' comes from the notion of breaking a law. So yeas, doing something illegal is a crime.


Even the RIAA knows this.

sure they do. But there isn't a prison to hold 1/2 a billion or so file-sharers, or is there?

[Swepsycho]

So, in light of the discussion going on in another thread, I thought I would start a thread for everyone to express what they think about this big ball of hobby that is called torrenting. I'll post some questions, but I'm not asking for a list of answers, more your thoughts on the way the bigger circle of society revolving around trackers looks to you. The questions are just there as an idea of what focus I'd like to see this discussion center around.
OK


Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?
safe filesharing....very high degree i need many movies games music etc... :)


What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?
safe tracker...not many know it exist...very hard to fbi and organisitions to find...am not member in tracker with fills the requeirements... i hope one day i can be :(


Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?
no...u can never have to many....


What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?
yes politic can be hard sometime...


Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.
be good member have good moral.. ;)


I don't know if this is just too general a subject for discussion here, but I'd really like to get a wide view of what people think about this thing we do, and would only ask that people keep it about BT and stay civil.
law people dont like what we do....but old news lol... :happy:

[ca_aok]

RE: the above, BT is one of the most unsafe forms of filesharing since everyone in every swarm can see your IP address, and all of your personal data is stored in giant databases on sites that the feds have most certainly infiltrated ;)

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?
Started with torrents because limewire had too many fakes/viruses/etc and terrible quality. Also, my cousin was on OinK and I was dying to have that much music at my disposal.

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?
Content-wise it's What, and yes I'm a member there :) Community-wise it's probably somewhere I shouldn't mention.

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?
I feel like I'm on too many, especially 0-days. I'm active on maybe 9 of my trackers and download occasionally from a few more.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?
Having been directly invovled in the BT world's politics, I'd say it does shape what I do. However, I feel like a ton of people have this ridiculous sense of entitlement being members of certain sites, and need to learn to stfu and get back to sharing files among themselves, which is the entire point of BT. However, the politics are sort of like a train wreck, and it's great fun to watch it all play out when you aren't involved in the particular matter.

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.
This really depends on what your goals are in the BT world, and the site in question. I've found that if you simply be yourself, good things will come to you. Talking to people in IRC and helping out with the site you're on is a good way to get noticed for VIP there/invites to harder-to-get-into sites/etc. Most of my "rare" sites that some people here seem to idolize were simply spontaneously offered to me in IRC, I didn't expect them or ask for them. In most cases I didn't even know they were members of that given site. There's no need to e-dick suck, though some members here seem to believe any time you aren't acting like a total asshole towards everyone else you're kissing their asses.

Deviated a bit there. For the ethos in general, I see filesharing as a try-before-i-buy type thing. I have ~300 CDs and a few LPs in my collection. The vast majority of these albums are from artists and genres that I never would have discovered without What and other music torrent sites. This collection is much larger than that of everyone else I know my age, including those who don't fileshare. So the record labels have profited handsomely from my filesharing habits, and I think they need to wake up and smell the free advertising. When Wolverine was leaked early, the studios thought it would be a disaster for ticket sales. Instead, it was one of the best selling movies of the summer.

[IdolEyes787]

There's also the tendency to allow this hobby to interfere with RL. If you can't find that balance then get out now. Nothing on torrents is worth sacrificing a second of real life for.



People always make that distinction and therein lies a lot of the problems.There is only one life this is just another aspect of it .
Act accordingly.

Bt wise I could live without everything and not feel the least deprived - 'pecially the politics.

[sez]

the very definition of 'crime' comes from the notion of breaking a law. So yeas, doing something illegal is a crime.

Ok maybe I fumbled up the words a little and lost you in translation(though i did put crime in quotes).What I meant to say was that piracy isn't as much of an illegality as to the point where we need to check our own self decency before we engage in a dialogue about ethos as regard the BT community as a whole.

If you are disagreeing then its you trying to equate speeding to bank robbery since in as far as you are concerned a crime is a crime.See what I mean?

[The_Martinator]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

I don't know if this is just too general a subject for discussion here, but I'd really like to get a wide view of what people think about this thing we do, and would only ask that people keep it about BT and stay civil.

To me BT was a means to an end at first. Those were the times when I only used open signups trackers as I thought noone would invite me anywhere without knowing me in RL.

A tracker where you dont' have toworry about your ratio when downloading (doesn't mean no ratio, there are other ways), helpfull staff, a chill out community enviroment. I'm a member at a couple trackers like this. However there's one thing I'd like to see but I don't think it'l ever happen for obvious reasons: a 0day tracker where all the files are unrared. I just hate it when stuff takes up twice the amount of space on my HDD. Maybe that's just me.

I'm a member at enough trackers, maybe at a tad to many general ones, so I'm planning to do selection at some point. But as far as specialized trackers go, you can't have too many, imo. No tracker is perfect content-wise.

The politics as you call them are really a PITA of FST. Fact is most people on invite boards are nice, too nice for some people's liking. Having have spent over a year at a couple such boards I can say most people are genuine in that. Of course some are faking just to get invites, but they show their true colors eventually. FST is a discussion forum, so there's nothing wrong with flaming trackers here (according to the staff here). In my experience the trackers' staffs will listen to your complaints if you present some arguments and you still remain ''normal'' (saying BMTV sucks coz they have a bad header and they banned me isn't really gonna cut it). The more arguments, the better. By normal I mean the approach, which is more important on teh interwebz than most know. After all, there's no way of knowing that you're an 18 year old blonde with huge knockerz on the net (even with pics one can't be a 100%).

As for morals, I like to think there is ''Honor amongst thieves.'' here. TBH, I'm torrenting only because everything is way too expensive and even with the recession that's not gonna change. No matter what the music artists say, for instance, I still won't think of myself as stealing money from them, but from some fat people in suits in a record company who earn way too much compared to what they do as it was. So I really don't consider myself a criminal and even if I did a set of moral rules is vital if we are going to survive (as a BT community) and should be above any laws.

C'mon when you're walking down the street it's not that you don't start killing people because you know it's against the law. It's because you know it's ''wrong''.

[IdolEyes787]

The politics as you call them are really a PITA of FST.

I like pita ,true story, although I try to avoid carbs with a high glycemic index as much as possible.

[Intr4ns1t]

I want to make a comment about the illegality of torrenting. It has been a running theme that BT is illegal, and I need to point out that this is a patently wrong assumption. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the act of torrenting is not illegal anywhere. It's what you choose to share that makes it illegal.

Quite a few things get shared perfectly legally by people using the BT protocol, and the underlying belief that the act itself is against the law is misleading. I personally know, in real life, several bands who have chosen to use torrnets to get there music out there as it's far cheaper to put your album on a tracker than pay for a bunch of albums and trying to hustle them on street corners or your local pub. Linux has been released via the torrenting protocol for years.

Granted, the VAST majority of files we share are infringing on a copyright of some sort, but the act does not.


This really depends on what your goals are in the BT world, and the site in question. I've found that if you simply be yourself, good things will come to you. Talking to people in IRC and helping out with the site you're on is a good way to get noticed for VIP there/invites to harder-to-get-into sites/etc. Most of my "rare" sites that some people here seem to idolize were simply spontaneously offered to me in IRC, I didn't expect them or ask for them. In most cases I didn't even know they were members of that given site. There's no need to e-dick suck, though some members here seem to believe any time you aren't acting like a total asshole towards everyone else you're kissing their asses.

I fully agree with this as it parallels my own experiences and I know it to be truth. Hell, I've even passed on offers of a couple of those "dream" trackers as I just don't have the time or energy to be a part of another site that invariably contains many of the same members that I will talk to at several of the other sites I'm on. The observation of that fact in the past is what really cemented the whole idea of a "greater bt community" in my mind tbh, and I know many people use that factor to help advance their knowledge and influence.

I also have seen that last statement in action many times, and it irks me every time I see it.





There's also the tendency to allow this hobby to interfere with RL. If you can't find that balance then get out now. Nothing on torrents is worth sacrificing a second of real life for. People always make that distinction and therein lies a lot of the problems.There is only one life this is just another aspect of it .
Act accordingly.

Well said. :) As was alluded to earlier, the line between rl and the internet is fast becoming blurred, so people have to realize, there isn't the well defined separation that used to exist between the two. It's fast becoming necessary to be the same person in both worlds, for good or bad.




The politics as you call them are really a PITA of FST. Fact is most people on invite boards are nice, too nice for some people's liking. Having have spent over a year at a couple such boards I can say most people are genuine in that. Of course some are faking just to get invites, but they show their true colors eventually. FST is a discussion forum, so there's nothing wrong with flaming trackers here (according to the staff here). In my experience the trackers' staffs will listen to your complaints if you present some arguments and you still remain ''normal'' (saying BMTV sucks coz they have a bad header and they banned me isn't really gonna cut it). The more arguments, the better. By normal I mean the approach, which is more important on teh interwebz than most know. After all, there's no way of knowing that you're an 18 year old blonde with huge knockerz on the net (even with pics one can't be a 100%).

I like this. I like it because it makes clear what should happen to better the bigger community I see around me. For all it's pains, those discussions, heated as they can be, help draw the lines of what entails the "universal rule" of BT, and how we deal with people that don't follow those rules. As technology advances, the rules must change, and as accessibility increases, the rules must change. The only way to reach a common set of rules, is to hash them out in as large a common interest group as possible.

About the people being nice part, isn't that just human nature? We almost universally get taught to be nice to the people around us till given reason not to. It's the people that require a reason to be nice to others before doing so that create the most problems imho, and ther is a HUGE difference between being nice and sucking up.

In my staffing experience, I have found that, as time progresses, it gets harder to make that distinction. In the staff frame of mind, it's our job to be paranoid. With that job comes an inherent level of distrust of people you don't know, and to try to determine if a user is trully just being friendly rather than seeking something beyond just conversation can be a task indeed. I think that often the effort to try to make that decision is secondary to the effort to keep the site that staff member is on in running order.

A complication of that decision process comes in the form the range of languages spoken in this field.

[respawn40]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

I first started using P2P when I was in elementary school, so that I could fill up the "Juice Box" (a pretty lame media player) that I had gotten for my birthday. To accomplish this, I used Limewire. Then a couple years later, in high school, a friend of mine told me that it was possible to download video games from past systems, and so he pointed me to a Rapidshare board whose main focus was video games. While at that board, I noticed that on occasion people would post a "torrent" file for large files (which would be promptly removed by the staff). I decided to investigate farther as to what this "torrent" was. That led me to ThePirateBay, where I happily grabbed computer programs and entire discographies (OK, only one discography). I had never been able to download entire albums like that in the blink of an eye before. Having found a new way to get music, I ditched Limewire. Eventually, I got a virus that devastated my computer, so I looked to alternate places to get files from, and stumbled upon this website. Eventually I was then invited to some great private trackers.

So as I so wordily said in the above paragraph, I use bittorrent for several different reasons: one, to get media for free (I don't care too much about the speed that I get it at, since there is always something else I can do in the meantime); two, to get media safely (no viruses); three, to discuss and talk about that media with other people who more often than not, share many of my interests; and four, to expose myself to music, games, movies, and experiences that I would not have otherwise been able to experience if it were not for filesharing. I've also got to know some pretty cool people in the process.

I've never really considered myself as a heavy, hardcore downloader. I hear about these people who download hundreds, if not a thousand, gigabytes a month, and just don't see how they manage it. I already feel like I have too much media to enjoy after only taking a year and a half to fill a small 500GB HD. Another reason that I use bittorrent as my main source of obtaining files is because it makes me feel good to know that I'm helping other people get files when I seed. I'm not really doing a whole lot to the files sitting on my computer (besides enjoying some of them), so why not share them and make someone's day? So I guess that I use bittorrent to a great degree...

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

The ideal tracker for me is a place that I can get files without having all these requirements shoved down my throat, a place where the staff are friendly and personable, a place where the other members there share my interests and are willing to discuss them, a place where I "feel" safe, and a place where I can experience new things. An example of my second and fifth ideals can be something that just happened today. I got an announcement from a staff member, telling everyone to spam another staff member's inbox with messages about anything and everything. The staff member then goes on to say that if a certain number are received, good things will happen. I've never experienced something like this before, especially coming from staff. I decided to participate by giving him my math homework and asking him to do it. :P

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

I am very comfortable with the number of trackers that I have right now. I must confess though that I belong to a number of trackers, but only because they all fill some sort of specific niche. I belong to two 0-day trackers, three music trackers, two general movie trackers, a rare/b-movie tracker, a modern video games tracker, a retro video games tracker, a mobile tracker, an applications tracker, a retro TV tracker, and a few general trackers (including Demonoid). It is my opinion that the more specialized a tracker is, the more they care about that particular thing, and the better experience I will have (discussions, files). I do think though that I could perhaps downsize, although I unfortunately am not in the habit of making use of "Request" sections. I also like to have a tracker to "fall back on", in case something were to happen to another tracker. Out of these trackers, I only "participate" (do things besides just download and seed) in five to six.

I honestly don't think that there is a "maximum" limit of trackers that one should belong to. Everyone has their own reasons for belonging to certain trackers, and I'm fine with that.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

I try not to get involved with politics and all the BT drama. However, I can say that I often see people attack one another, and bring up past mistakes as a weapon against them. I've also noticed that a lot of staff out there pay attention to how one behaves at other places, and act accordingly. A recent example of this is when a member who was invited to a particular tracker by another member of that tracker was soon after disabled by staff there, based on what the staff had observed of that invitee at other places. It sure enforced the sense that "the online BT community is global now". You have to be mindful of yourself at all times, or things may not happen as you wish them to.

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

I think that there are a few things that every good torrenter should do. One of these things should be to have a willingness to share. Whether this means uploading torrents, seeding them for a long time, or re-seeding torrents when requested, you're contributing to the entire community. This is "peer-to-peer", not "server-to-peer"; it takes a group effort to help other people obtain files. I also believe that one should respect any tracker wishes, and follow the rules. It's their site, and so they have the right to run it however they wish. If someone doesn't like it, then they can leave.

That's all that came to mind :happy:

[KushBlow]

LOL @ math homework spam nice one :lol:.

[respawn40]

LOL @ math homework spam nice one :lol:.

I was actually very generous, choosing to only give him the "challenge" problem of the set. I could have spammed all ten or so of them...

EDIT: And I really hope he does it, because there's no chance in hell of it getting done by me :lol:

[Intr4ns1t]

I try not to get involved with politics and all the BT drama. However, I can say that I often see people attack one another, and bring up past mistakes as a weapon against them. I've also noticed that a lot of staff out there pay attention to how one behaves at other places, and act accordingly. A recent example of this is when a member who was invited to a particular tracker by another member of that tracker was soon after disabled by staff there, based on what the staff had observed of that invitee at other places. It sure enforced the sense that "the online BT community is global now". You have to be mindful of yourself at all times, or things may not happen as you wish them to.

So, is that a good thing or a bad thing? I mean, it's a given that word will travel, but that could lead to a serious diminishing of real unabashed honesty. If we spend all our time thinking about the ramifications of a sentence or an opinion we spend less time actually expressing what we really think. There are exceptions to that rule, but they are the result of the that accumulated respect that gives those words weight where an unknown user won't have that liberty with the words he uses.

Then you have to take into account multiple nicks and all the words those different nicks post. A lot of folks use multiple nicks to host those masks of personality that were mentioned by ovisan. Not everyone ofc, as many people now active were taught, at the forums they learned about this world from, to hide their forum identity from the trackers they join to keep their inviter and themselves safe.

In all honesty, I really think the need for such practices is outdated and unneccessary, but I harbor no animosity toward all invite forums, with the caveat that the ones I like are sites that actively try to lead new members in the right direction. Not all tracker staff feel the same way I do about those forums.

[Bad-Day]

More than 10 years have gone by!!!
Its 2009 almost 2010!!! I can´t really remember when all this started, i remember a small group off friends and i, used to share all kinds off shit in the irc, undernet if im not mistaken, after that naspter come up!!! Until one day, a friend off mine, invited me to a crazy place, that worked like a tracker, we had 2 or 3 fake pages, whit some crazy funky tricks, it was easy to forget how to find the login page :D :D
Knowadays, if i was a collector or whatever, i could say, i had reached heaven, :mellow:, whatever it means, but to be honest, the only place i can call home its a forum, it doesn't even have torrents! But its related.
If i could, i would getter my old friends and return to the past, we all knew each other very well, and basicly we only filled each other requests...
Our forums were more active than a thread made by albo about skittles or cn. :dry:
I don´t use all my trackers, but i have them, because off the inumerous irc´s i connect, because in all off them i know this and that guy.
I could go on and on, talking about the past, i miss it, i really do, its getting colder and colder, has time goes by, trackers, are losing the initial feeling, to much politics, associations, flaming, hunting, scamming and money is envolved, from seedbox´s to strange donations, ( who can forget funfile?? or supertorrents ?? )
Anyway, i know many off the dudes who run the trackers, that you all talk about, everyday, and i must say, none off them, was able to make a small private, united family.
Whit growth comes, all the problems, and the absence. I would throw it all away in exchange for my old group.

Basicly i have grown up, in this last 10 years or more, and i can´t find a place for me, for the ones, who just wanna be left alone.

[brento]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

I use it because it's cheaper than RS, and I can find more rare content than on Usenet. I also enjoy the sense of community that comes with a torrent site.

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

Karagarga and Cinematik. Rare/offbeat films + DVDR format = my heaven :D

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

When it comes to movies, I could always use more trackers. Otherwise, I'm set.

If somebody only downloads scene content, then 1-3 trackers should be plenty. But if your really into collecting offbeat and rare music/movies/games etc. like me, then I don't think you should follow the idea that you only need a few trackers. I'm a member at SDBits, Tehconnection, KG, S-C, Cinematik, THC, PTN Sparvar, iTS, goem, and a heck of a lot more. It probably sounds like I'm a collector, but if I were not a member at so many of these trackers than my DVD-R collection would be significantly smaller, because so many of my movies were only available at only one place.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Not 100% what you mean... :\ Do you mean the whole tracker levels thing? If so, I think it's extremely silly that people seek hard to find trackers (many of which are simply 0-day trackers anyway), rather than trackers that actually provide content that they want.

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

Too tired to answer, lol :P

[Intr4ns1t]

I don´t use all my trackers, but i have them, because off the inumerous irc´s i connect, because in all off them i know this and that guy.
I could go on and on, talking about the past, i miss it, i really do, its getting colder and colder, has time goes by, trackers, are losing the initial feeling, to much politics, associations, flaming, hunting, scamming and money is envolved, from seedbox´s to strange donations, ( who can forget funfile?? or supertorrents ?? )
Anyway, i know many off the dudes who run the trackers, that you all talk about, everyday, and i must say, none off them, was able to make a small private, united family.
Whit growth comes, all the problems, and the absence. I would throw it all away in exchange for my old group.


So, what stops you from doing something like that again? Or even getting back together with those folks that you used to share with? I mean, you are talking about what many sites shoot for on an idealistic level, but is it just a matter of size more than anything?

I will say that it can be dangerous to covet the past, as you surely will end up disappointed in the long run because with experience comes perspective. When we are younger, we often don't realize how good we have it until we don't, and by then it's almost exclusively too late. "You can't go home again" and all that jazz.



What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

Not 100% what you mean... :\ Do you mean the whole tracker levels thing? If so, I think it's extremely silly that people seek hard to find trackers (many of which are simply 0-day trackers anyway), rather than trackers that actually provide content that they want.

I mean the way the way people interact outside the insulation of there personal "favorite" community. I suppose that levels fall under that, but really don't mean much in terms of the question. I want to know what you think about the bigger community and how the "players" set the tone for everyone else in the way they treat both each other and the people that would like to be or already are members of their sites.

Like, do you bite your tongue in discussions because you worry that your words with follow you elsewhere? Do you treat people differently than you would if you thought that what you said in one place stayed in that one place?

[Bad-Day]

This has become an industry, from ISP´s advertising 100mb lines to seedbox sellers, the all p2p thing has evolved, into a business.

In a tracker whit more than 20.000 members only 100 use the irc, that gives a generall picture, off how things are.

Instead off the local blockbuster, we have sct or whatever.

I don´t have what it takes to make my dream tracker, lack off skills, time, ..... ,......, but there are some projects rising lately, from ppl that share my taste :) thats the ones that get my entire attention.

I admire, all the work they guys at sct scc, blablabla do, but it, specially for a noob, who never knew how things work in the old days. for an old timer** this is just a blockbuster.

anyway...

Instead off albo who makes a thread to mock skittles, probably they refused him too, :shifty:, i just give ideas, and help on the gathering off new members that i like to have near me, and that i can trust 100%.

But, to be honest, its easier for me to ask you, what is it all about?
Why do trackers chase activity by raising the number off members ? Why do members leave ? Why do you guys like to run a library, instead off a sharing place ? What feeds the morons like albo and cabalo, when they come out off the gutter to mock this and that tracker ?

To many parasites, criticizing.



Can u show me proof, that the spirit still exists?

[Intr4ns1t]

So, what stops you from doing something like that again? Or even getting back together with those folks that you used to share with? I mean, you are talking about what many sites shoot for on an idealistic level, but is it just a matter of size more than anything?

I will say that it can be dangerous to covet the past, as you surely will end up disappointed in the long run because with experience comes perspective. When we are younger, we often don't realize how good we have it until we don't, and by then it's almost exclusively too late. "You can't go home again" and all that jazz.

I don´t have what it takes, to make it happen, i admit it. thats why i just give ideas, instead off criticizing.

Instead off albo who makes a thread to mock skittles, probably they refused him too, :shifty:, i just give ideas, and help on the gathering off new members that i like to have near me, and that i can trust 100%.

On topic: Its easier for me to ask you, what is it all about?
Why do trackers keep growing up ? Why do members leave ? Why do you guys like to run a library, instead off a sharing place ? What feeds the morons like albo and cabalo, when they come out off the gutter to mock this and that tracker ?

To many parasites, criticizing.

Basically this has become an industry, involving millions, a huge money making machine, from ISP, who advertise 100mb lines, to seedboxes sellers, and so on....

Can u show me proof, that the spirit still exists?

Regarding Albo and Cabalo, don't work under the assumption that they are the only guys who ever bait people or flame or take issue with trackers. For good or bad, they post what they think, and that is to be respected imho. I know not a whole lot of people may agree with me on that one, but w/e, I give props to anyone that has the balls to stick by their opinions and not be swayed by the majority. This thread is not about them though.

How they have been treated, and how others who bucked in the face of popular opinion are treated is valid though. That goes to the politics and morals part of this thread. As was stated a couple pages ago, there is a definite tendency toward witchhunts in this world( BT) and the whole "global ban" idea is an evidence of that. To suffer a global ban for something like an opinion or attitude is kind of ridiculous.

If you go back through old threads about trackers when they were first opening up, almost universally, the poster of the thread and usually the trackers too, get flamed to high heaven. It happens. I think thats a good portion of the reason that most trackers try to distance themselves from FST. Well, that and trading, but trading is a whole other issue.

That flaming will obviously create animosity on the part of trackers, who can blame em, but the truth is, it's not FST doing the flaming, it's the posters in those threads, and to think otherwise is self-deluded. That begs the question, why is that "trial by fire" so common?


As far as your questions, some trackers stay at a fairly stable number of members for a long time, and as the bad members get purged, there is room for new members, so they get new members. People leave because they don't have the amount of time to invest that many trackers ask and/or require, or they just don't care about the community side and want files as simply as possible. Regarding the library question, I'm not sure how you want me to answer that. I would say that the increasing number of files is a demonstration of that sharing. A torrent that stays seeded for a year + is still seeded because of that sharing spirit. Finally, it's certainly no secret that people behind the veil of anonymity that is the computer feel less reserved about expressing what they think. Your own wording of that question is a criticism itself, only of individuals, not trackers.

For proof of that spirit still existing, I would only point to every staffer at every tracker that doesn't make a profit and smile. ;)

[The_Martinator]

The politics as you call them are really a PITA of FST.

I like pita ,true story, although I try to avoid carbs with a high glycemic index as much as possible.

Uhm, PITA stands for pain in the ass. I guess you're a n00b at these things... or you were joking. I can never tell, tbh. :lol:

Intr4ns1t, yeah, I agree about the being nice part. The way you were raised has a big part in it. But again, there's the problem of internet, you don't know who my parents are...

PS: Great thread!

PPS: About Albo and Cabalo: Constructive criticism is something that betters trackers. But the criticism that those two present is not constructive, neither is it argumented, but what bothers me the most is their approach (I'm repeating myself, I know :P). You hear a lot that at sites like TPS you have to suck dick and are not allowed to criticise sites. Not true. But if you do it the same way as those two do it here, expect to be banned. Fast.

[IdolEyes787]

Uhm, PITA stands for pain in the ass. I guess you're a n00b at these things... or you were joking. I can never tell, tbh. :lol:
I'm only serious about things that need to be taken seriously if that's any help.




PPS: About Albo and Cabalo: Constructive criticism is something that betters trackers. But the criticism that those two present is not constructive, neither is it argumented, but what bothers me the most is their approach (I'm repeating myself, I know :P). You hear a lot that at sites like TPS you have to suck dick and are not allowed to criticize sites. Not true. But if you do it the same way as those two do it here, expect to be banned. Fast.

I'm of an entirely different mindset on this because primarily a. they are only words b. they are only words directed at an inanimate object( a bt tracker ) which has no feelings and therefore is immune to harm c. there are more than one side to every argument and by seeing other ones you begin to reason instead of just follow.

@ Bad-Day since you have now more or less confirmed what was , at least to me, apparent from the outset that there is a lot more to you than first met the eye , I just wonder if you consider your presence here as aiding or mocking .And if mocking then aren't you as much of the problem as those like Albo who you disdain?

[The_Martinator]

I'm of an entirely different mindset on this because primarily a. they are only words b. they are only words directed at an inanimate object( a bt tracker ) which has no feelings and therefore is immune to harm c. there are more than one side to every argument and by seeing other ones you begin to reason instead of just follow.


A tracker has no feelings, but people who work hard to keep the tracker going and constantly improving do.

I said that it's good you see both sides of an argument. Still asking to remain civilised while expressing yourself is not too much, don't you think?

I've seen you say your mind about trackers and I know you do it in a totally different way than Albo for instance (even when you're basically saying the site sucks).

[Yoann64]

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?My brother used Audiogalaxy, Napster, Edonkey, TribalWeb (now GigaTribe) at home ...i moved to BT because i was tired to have fake files with eMule.


What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements? I don't think that the ideal tracker can exist ... i prefer a "specialized tracker", as WhatCD, BCG, Goem...( i know that Stoi love these words :p ), where i can easily find what i'm looking for.


Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?I always find stuffs which i need, then yes, i can tell that i'm on enough trackers.I'm on no 1337 tracker, and i don't feel the need, because i can't see what they can bring to me and what i can bring to them.Some of you are going to tell me "Community" (or something like that)...i'm on specialized forums for that, and i'm already member of a great community (i'm sorry to tell you that it's not here).
What also bothers me is that most trackers forums are filled with the same people who post the same topics, and even putting the best of intentions I find this boring.


What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?I try to find the way to not be a sheep...and not be a rebel at the same time.
As Funkin'said:
"Bt politics" interest me none. I just do my thing and try to stay within the rules of each tracker I belong to(whether I agree with them or not)


Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.I think that kallieb is right.

Say thanks to those who share, offer help when you can, fill a request if you're able, don't bail on a seed if you're the last one, and check in on teh site regularly enough to at least demonstrate that you're not taking up space on the tracker for ego - but that you actually want to be there.

But nowadays people are more and more individualistic, the BT allows to avoid it a little, the BT=Sharing: but not only files, we exchange everything: the knowledge, the utopias, the visions, the discoveries, the informations etc....
I find hallucinating that people through the BT, the forums, or the web are capable of speaking to strangers, while most part of them are incapable to do it IRL. You can call it " the magic of the internet " if you want.
(I don't know how is your country, but here, when you say "Hello" to somebody, he has reflex to touch (or hide) its moneybag, or to lower eyes!)

PS: It's funny that all the threads at one time or another, end up talking about Albo or Cabalo

[sez]

Intr4ns1t, yeah, I agree about the being nice part. The way you were raised has a big part in it. But again, there's the problem of internet, you don't know who my parents are...

PS: Great thread!

PPS: About Albo and Cabalo: Constructive criticism is something that betters trackers. But the criticism that those two present is not constructive, neither is it argumented, but what bothers me the most is their approach (I'm repeating myself, I know :P). You hear a lot that at sites like TPS you have to suck dick and are not allowed to criticise sites. Not true. But if you do it the same way as those two do it here, expect to be banned. Fast.

for some strange reason whenever I read any of your post it always sounds like you've been sent by TPS or something.

And about the being nice part,it doesn't take half a brain to figure who's being nice coz they are nice and who's being nice coz they want something but still refuse to admit it(what kinda idiots do they think we imiz).For starters just dig through your post history here and those other places then compare it with that of dawn-6 or lisabritpop or the guy dishing polish tracker invites or the guy who got banned by what for doing a giveaway here and eventually getting re-enabled(jincandoit was his nick) then see whether your 'niceness' doesn't warrant cabalo's distaste.

Being nice is good but i think it goes hand in hand with honesty.I'd rather an IRC stranger who chats me up coz he knows am on tracker X and may potentially have invites than someone who is being nice with me over pm or pretends to share similar interests with me only to stop upon realisation that I don't got shit for him but then continues to deny that they were/are nice only coz of the invites<---and that's what sucks even harder.

Its probably nothing but you really gotta give it to those who hold fort knox invites <insert the most relevant reasons here :lol: >

anyways this is a good thread that probably doesn't deserve such rants but like n00bz0r once pointed out,it doesn't make sense for y'all to turn every thread into an albo/cabalo affair.

[Bad-Day]

anyways this is a good thread that probably doesn't deserve such rants but like n00bz0r once pointed out,it doesn't make sense for y'all to turn every thread into an albo/cabalo affair.

:lol: Strange phenomenon.

@Idoleyes show me the money, i can´t see anything from here, unfortunately. ( ps give me pm´s privileges please! )

[The_Martinator]

Intr4ns1t, yeah, I agree about the being nice part. The way you were raised has a big part in it. But again, there's the problem of internet, you don't know who my parents are...

PS: Great thread!

PPS: About Albo and Cabalo: Constructive criticism is something that betters trackers. But the criticism that those two present is not constructive, neither is it argumented, but what bothers me the most is their approach (I'm repeating myself, I know :P). You hear a lot that at sites like TPS you have to suck dick and are not allowed to criticise sites. Not true. But if you do it the same way as those two do it here, expect to be banned. Fast.

for some strange reason whenever I read any of your post it always sounds like you've been sent by TPS or something.

And about the being nice part,it doesn't take half a brain to figure who's being nice coz they are nice and who's being nice coz they want something but still refuse to admit it(what kinda idiots do they think we imiz).For starters just dig through your post history here and those other places then compare it with that of dawn-6 or lisabritpop or the guy dishing polish tracker invites or the guy who got banned by what for doing a giveaway here and eventually getting re-enabled(jincandoit was his nick) then see whether your 'niceness' doesn't warrant cabalo's distaste.

Being nice is good but i think it goes hand in hand with honesty.I'd rather an IRC stranger who chats me up coz he knows am on tracker X and may potentially have invites than someone who is being nice with me over pm or pretends to share similar interests with me only to stop upon realisation that I don't got shit for him but then continues to deny that they were/are nice only coz of the invites<---and that's what sucks even harder.

Its probably nothing but you really gotta give it to those who hold fort knox invites <insert the most relevant reasons here :lol: >

anyways this is a good thread that probably doesn't deserve such rants but like n00bz0r once pointed out,it doesn't make sense for y'all to turn every thread into an albo/cabalo affair.

I was not sent by TPS, but I am a big fan of them and have been there from the start. They don't thank me for posting here, nor do I get any ''other prizes''. I'm just speaking my mind.

About being honest, I am, and even then some people don't like it when I admit that one of the reasons for me signing up here was to learn more about FTN and then eventually maybe get there. I got there with no thanks to FST, btw. And yes a member at TPS invited me, but I wasn't really looking for an invite at the time, nor was it my dream to get there. I can't objectively say it hasn't affected my liking towards TPS, though. Subjectively I can.

PS: Cabalo hates me because he forced me to take sides in one of the many arguments he had with trackers' staffs and I didn't choose his side. That's all there is to it. I didn't beg him for anything and got rejected (if that's what you're thinking).

I did ask him for advice on occasion and not all of which I got was good.I really have to stop talking about this e drama loverz, so if anyone has any more questions, I just cleared my inbox.

[IdolEyes787]

@Idoleyes show me the money, i can´t see anything from here, unfortunately. ( ps give me pm´s privileges please! )

I don't have that kind of power all I can do is make hot women yearn and strong men cry.:idunno:

[Bad-Day]

@Idoleyes show me the money, i can´t see anything from here, unfortunately. ( ps give me pm´s privileges please! )

I don't have that kind of power all I can do is make hot women cry and strong men yearn.:idunno:

:lol: :lol:


:cry:

[IdolEyes787]

I'm disabling you at TPS for that .:dry:

[Bad-Day]

Mwahahahahah I´m not @ TPS mwahahaha


I went there, but it sucks, i only use IC somethimes, its nice.

[IdolEyes787]

Hey U what's IC Sounds ghey.

Sorry for the off toepick but as noted I can't pm you.

Actually a good topic and no disrespect to the OP .
I'd add something intelligent but if already used up my quota for the day.

[Bad-Day]

Sorry Intransit :( hes still asleep...

Idoleyes this no pm rule for 30 days is really shitty.

U dunno what is IC ? its a forum. Nothing like tr or tps or cfs, ppl dont beg for nothing... or suck...

Anyway....

Back on topic boys and girls

@leech i dont think so, but im not all that active so...

[leech]

Invite Central
It's like all the rest of those forums.

[Benjamin]

I'm of an entirely different mindset on this because primarily a. they are only words b. they are only words directed at an inanimate object( a bt tracker ) which has no feelings and therefore is immune to harm c. there are more than one side to every argument and by seeing other ones you begin to reason instead of just follow.

Exactly, people should have the right to speak their mind, I mean if you have a strong feeling about something you should be able to express it. As long as you're not trolling I don't see the problem.

[Duckater]

I'm of an entirely different mindset on this because primarily a. they are only words b. they are only words directed at an inanimate object( a bt tracker ) which has no feelings and therefore is immune to harm c. there are more than one side to every argument and by seeing other ones you begin to reason instead of just follow.

Exactly, people should have the right to speak their mind, I mean if you have a strong feeling about something you should be able to express it. As long as you're not trolling I don't see the problem.

This is all fine untill some says and has a go about things/sites they have never checked out therefore have no real facts about it to make judgements on them.

A bt tracker may be inanimate but the owners who put time and effort into them running them are not so they do have a right to take offence at people who say things about the tracker with out even having the manners to check it 1st.

[The_Martinator]

Did anyone say that people shouldn't be able to speak their minds?

Do you always say the first thing that pops up in your mind in RL? I usually don't.

[Duckater]

I dont usually :)
I also do not comment on people or things I know nothing about, which I bring to my online stuff as well.
I am of the view if you are going to comment about some thing at least have the manners to check it out 1st

[cap87]

Did anyone say that people shouldn't be able to speak their minds?

Do you always say the first thing that pops up in your mind in RL? I usually don't.

True. Doesn't matter if it is online or in real life, sometimes it's good but usually that makes you look like an idiot (this makes me remember of a certain House episode lol)

P.S: Bad-day is 100% right about IC, nothing like the other forums, doesn't matter what anyone says. :)

P.S.2: Bad-day <3 :whistling

[Intr4ns1t]

Well, I won't lie, I was fairly certain that Albo and Cabalo were going to come up in this thread, but I want to point out one thing. Neither of them posted a single thing that was expressing an opinion or in fact of any substance in this thread nor did either of them flame anyone or anything. And yet, they still show up as a subject matter. What gives?

On the subject of criticism of sites, from my experience, that criticism, if it has any single thread of validity, can only serve to help the sites it's about. Hell, alot of the focuses I have had with my site have derived specifically from threads that were bashing us. Doesn't matter what the tone of the post is, if its content is valid, it's valid.

Yes it can hurt, especially if you put heart mind and soul into your project, BUT, in mind of what duckater said, much of the criticism posted some places are made by people that don't know what they are talking about, and that makes it hard to take them all seriously.


Exactly, people should have the right to speak their mind, I mean if you have a strong feeling about something you should be able to express it. As long as you're not trolling I don't see the problem.

What constitutes trolling then? Make no mistake, I agree with your statement, but what is the difference between critique and flame? The problem lies in the fact that we all define those two things differently, so one mans criticism is another mans slap in the face.

[Duckater]

On the subject of criticism of sites, from my experience, that criticism, if it has any single thread of validity, can only serve to help the sites it's about. Hell, alot of the focuses I have had with my site have derived specifically from threads that were bashing us. Doesn't matter what the tone of the post is, if its content is valid, it's valid.

Yes it can hurt, especially if you put heart mind and soul into your project, BUT, in mind of what duckater said, much of the criticism posted some places are made by people that don't know what they are talking about, and that makes it hard to take them all seriously.


Exactly, people should have the right to speak their mind, I mean if you have a strong feeling about something you should be able to express it. As long as you're not trolling I don't see the problem.

What constitutes trolling then? Make no mistake, I agree with your statement, but what is the difference between critique and flame? The problem lies in the fact that we all define those two things differently, so one mans criticism is another mans slap in the face.

KNow what you mean about comments on own site, I do not consider noting things said by people who do not even bother to at least have a look at the iste first and will tell them they have no real knowledge about some thing they have not viewed for themselves.

To me trolling is covered by the above making remarks about things they have not checked out for them selves. Other form of trolling is usally by banned members of sites that want to make the site they are banned from look bad and to be fair it is more than likely happen when the ban is justified, i.e they have not followed sites rules.

[IdolEyes787]

You create an opinion based on experience as Duckater says and the same holds true about people.
If I edited ever stupid thing that came out of people's virtual mouths how could anyone tell who was a fool and who wasn't?

[Duckater]

You create an opinion based on experience as Duckater says and the same holds true about people.
If I edited ever stupid thing that came out of people's virtual mouths how could anyone tell who was a fool and who wasn't?

Thats easy to answer, you would be the fool for wasting so much time :P :P

Sorry could not resist ;)

[cap87]

Criticizing and flaming are 2 separate things. Nothing is reason to flame someone, even if that person is flaming you. There's constructive criticism, you can say "your site sucks" or "I think your site needs to improve, x and x are not good on your site and you could improve it doing x or x". You picked sites criticism but the same goes for members flaming each other. There's no reason to be "the bad guy". Sure, it's fun flaming, but it takes you nowhere.

What i believe is that sometimes there is a certain confusion between mocking and flaming, not criticizing :P

[IdolEyes787]

You create an opinion based on experience as Duckater says and the same holds true about people.
If I edited ever stupid thing that came out of people's virtual mouths how could anyone tell who was a fool and who wasn't?

Thats easy to answer, you would be the fool for wasting so much time :P :P

Sorry could not resist ;)

NP I'm a fool for a lot of reasons.

[Sonnentier]

All I can say is, don't take all this bt stuff too seriously. It's just sending files from one to another. There are many people that feel they are mighty in "bt world" (maybe they need to compensate something), but you do not need to support this. I don't see why you would need to - In the end they are just small illegal groups, receiving content from somewhere else and isolating that and themselves from the outside world.

[Benjamin]

.
What constitutes trolling then? Make no mistake, I agree with your statement, but what is the difference between critique and flame? The problem lies in the fact that we all define those two things differently, so one mans criticism is another mans slap in the face.

If you watch someone's posts over time you will know if they are for real or not. Flame should be taken lightly I mean this is the internet, and respect to you for going through those bash threads and taking something from it.

I found in this torrent community there's a lot more serious business people who can't tolerate flame from people like somebody has personally insulted them. People like that are no fun, and they feed the real trolls who only exist because they take everything so seriously.

[Intr4ns1t]

All I can say is, don't take all this bt stuff too seriously. It's just sending files from one to another. There are many people that feel they are mighty in "bt world" (maybe they need to compensate something), but you do not need to support this. I don't see why you would need to - In the end they are just small illegal groups, receiving content from somewhere else and isolating that and themselves from the outside world.

See, I think it's moved past being just a bunch of small groups sharing files in isolation. Don't most trackers have a power user forum dedicated to invites to other trackers? To me that signifies a desire on the part of those trackers to deisolate themselves. It's an example of cross site cooperation and trust, and a good sign that we are part of a bigger culture than just the individual sites we belong to.

Many sites share info on bad users as well as good users, and for good or bad, that is a sure sign that the people running those sites are of the same belief. We are all taking a risk by providing the service we do, and care and seriousness are called for when risk is at hand.

[Rart]

Haven't been around much but can't miss the opportunity to post in a thread thats actually on topic for the most part ;)

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

I use it to steal files :happy:. I don't want to pay 30-40 bucks for just a season of a TV show I might not like in the first place. My opinions on games tend to be drastically different from review sites such as IGN and as such I almost never know whether I'm really going to like a game (IE I hated Oblivion but loved Prototype, both of which seemed to get quite contrasting reviews).
And if a game is done well enough, I always end up buying it to play the multiplayer to the full extent that it's available. My single player attention span is mediocre at best, but I love MP as I'm pretty competetive and a major sore loser. So basically I use BT for games and TV shows, and not really too much else as I don't really listen to music very much. I have DLed a couple apps like WinRAR so I don't have to click that goddamn popup every time :whistling.

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

I think it's a site that's easy to seed or has a good bonus system to make up for that. What's the point of downloading files if you have to constantly worry about whether it will kill your ratio? Takes the fun out of it :dabs:. And yes, I feel like I'm a member of a couple sites that fufill that :).

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

I really feel like I am on enough trackers right now. I use to join the new trackers on blogs to check them out and see what's new, but once you've seen a couple of them you've seen them all. New 0day sites that really don't bring anything interesting to the table aren't needed at all, and I've learned to be rather skeptical of new trackers. I have what I need already so why join others? I'm set. I think too many trackers is too the point where you log on to the site for a second every day from your bookmarks just to avoid pruning. If thats all your doing, you probably already have another tracker that fills that niche and don't need another one.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

I really despise of BT politics and I think I've expressed my opinions of it in quite a few threads here. People get wrapped up in this world of "leetness" and awsomeness from owning/being on a secret tracker, and people from this forum constantly throw punches about past mistakes. We also get threads like "zomg pedros spending donation money!!!111" and random scene notices "warning" tracker owners to stop leeching their files and "hacking" personal files from people like the ST admin just to show they can. We're just here to share and discuss files, not find how who has a bigger epenis :ermm:.

Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

I think the only real ethos needed is not randomly attacking members to the point where its degenerating, or attacking their "l33tness". Random, unrelated insults are unnecessary. If you have a valid on topic point about another person and can express it well, so be it. That's whats great about this forum, no one will ban you for having a negative opinion of almost ANYTHING. But it gets to a point when short, offtopic remarks about other members that really annoy me.

On another note, as I kinda think I saw a while back Idoleyes raised a good point in another thread. We should'nt use the word "steal" when talking about sites stealing other sites releases and stuff. It is kind of hypocritical.

Good thread by the way, got me thinking :).

Edit: I just noticed, I tend to use a lot of smilies in my posts o.0

[Bad-Day]

I had no idea, they share good info about the users...... That comes has a surprise to me.

"We should'nt use the word "steal" when talking about sites stealing other sites releases and stuff. It is kind of hypocritical."

So true!

[sear]

Yes of course they do.

If sites have an agreement to share info (and this usually comes down to personal relationships between staffers) they may come to you and say look I'm thinking something about this member I know he's on your site so what's he been like on your tracker...or can you confirm this is the same guy I want to invite him or promote him or whatever. Though most information sharing is about bad members.

[MadIrish]

Really good thread this, some interesting and well thought out responses




Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?


After using a bit of the old napster at uni I had some time away from the net, when I got back online at home a few years ago I managed to pretty much bypass fasttrack and gneutella and arrived straight at BT (apart from Soulseek). I've always been into music, films and games but had got exceeding frustrated that all my old (bought) vhs & casette tapes were becoming obselete, so I set about replacing them initially, and then expanding my collections. There's been points over the years that downloading has become almost an obsession, trying to get everything I could ever possibly want to watch/listen to/play etc, but these days I'm much more selective and prefer to pick up rare or interesting things and help keep them alive for others who'll enjoy them as I do.



What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that fills those requirements?

I was very lucky in many ways that my first introduction to private trackers was by a real life friend, to a site that I much later discovered was much coveted by many (for all the wrong reasons). Over time, through open signups or randomly offered invites I gained access to a lot of other great sites, but for ages I considered that first site to be the ideal tracker for me. It felt personal, like I was sharing with a small group of real people round the globe rather than just faceless masses, and I met some great people there through random convo's started over a torrent comment or an upload etc.

I'm not sure I still feel the same though. Things change, it started to feel like a lot of new people on that site were there for the wrong reasons, or maybe I've just gained more perspective or become more cynical. I still use that site, and like it, but I would no longer call it ideal. Nor would I call any other site that either, some are more or less ideal for a particular niche content, but all have their up and downsides. Content is the main thing for me, "community" is a much over-used word where torrent sites are concerned, I'm not a big one for irc and most of their forums are pretty naff so I'm rarely that bothered with them (I run a football related forum anyway which takes up most of my chatting time on the net), however its always nice to find sites where members go out of their way to help others out, and that happens on most of my favourites.



Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

Definitely enough, I think I've signed up for like 1 or 2 new sites in the last year or so, certainly no more than that. I think "too many" depends on what sort of thing you tend to share, I certainly don't think anyone needs more than a small handful of 0-day sites and always laugh when I see people trying to get into some l33t site when they obviously have access to many others with exactly the same content. I've always liked to spread my downloading / seeding of certain things around a bit so I do maintain active accounts on probably around a dozen sites, of which say a couple are music related, a couple gaming, several for old and new films, a couple of larger 0-days and then one or two smaller trackers. I've had several prunes of my bookmarks in the not so distant past, and probably will have another again soon.



What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

I just try to keep out of all that as much as possible. A lot has changed in BT over the years, I could go on forever about silly levels lists, the proliferation of seedboxes & pointless account "buffering", trading and anti-trading, inter-site disputes, speed whores, money making, back stabbing and "stealing", but I won't as this post is well long enough already, and none of it really effects me massively. I definitely preferred things the way they used to be, or perhaps that was just the way I perceived them, but what can you do? Ultimately the main purpose of BT for me has always been and will always be to share files, everything else is coincidental.



Do you think there is an ethos necessary when interacting, and if so, what does it consist of? By this I mean what do you think the "morals" of BT are, if you think there should be.

Lol, honour among thieves and all that? I think everyone has their own standards, personally I'm usually quite respectful of people in real life and see no need to change that on the interwebs. I respect every site I'm on's rules, and understand that I'm a guest there, they call the shots and if I don't like it I can simply leave and go elsewhere. I believe in seeding because I want to, not because I'm told to. I wish more people felt the same but i'm not going to lose sleep when they don't, there's much more important things in the world. :happy:

[Intr4ns1t]

got me thinking :).

That's all I wanted was to make people actually think about this thing instead of the usual read and react that is normal on forums.

It occurred to me just now, that I haven't answered my own questions. :O

/me grits his teeth and starts his answers

Why do you use bit torrent, and why to the degree that you use it?

Well, at the outset, I had one goal with computers, namely to find mixed martial arts fights. I spent lots of money on MMA dvds before I started torrenting, and was limited to two organizations, Pride and UFC. A friend of mine offered me a free laptop because he thought it kind of ridiculous that a 30+ year old man didn't have any experience with computers.

Up to that point I was a serious technophobe, and was quite sure that I would use it for a week, then move on to some other interest. Well, obviously I was wrong ;) I found a torrent on mininova that belonged to MMAtracker, and that put me on the hunt for how to join that place as at the time, they were closed for signups. And so the hunt began.

I perused several forums at that point trying to figure out how to find a way into MMAtracker, and was entranced by the atmosphere. Many of us may not see the forest for the trees in this world, but there is a lot of passion in BT, and that passion made me curious. Why did all these people feel so strongly about what they were doing?

That led me to private forums. My first was DarksideRG, and holy shit did that blow my mind. Thousands of people talking about a whole realm of things I had no clue about. I joined a site that was just starting out that advertised that fact at said forum, and within a week was a staffer there.

Once that happened, I really started to see alot of invite forums with the goal of advertising that site :gasp: As I spent more time talking to the members of a couple of those forums, I realized what a huge knowledge base was available to me to learn how to use that laptop. I was hooked at that point as I have an unending thirst for knowledge, and was regularly getting that thirst sated. Now, it should be noted that that initial site failed miserably, but it was a good experience for me in that I learned what doesn't work. ;)

The point now is to try to have some sort of impact. That's all. Not in an "epeen" sort of way, I don't really give a shit if people online like me or not, I just want to have the opportunity to change peoples way of thinking on anything. even if it's not to my personal view, I only want people to think about the world around them, and I have an opportunity to do so in BT. I also have an affinity for the mindset of what we do, namely get shit for free. :naughty:

What do you feel is the ideal tracker for you, and are you a member of a site that suits those needs?

Three things would be required for a tracker to be ideal to me.

1. All the content that I regularly seek.
2. Like minded individuals involved
3. Staff that care about their users happiness

Because my tastes are so varied and specific, no I'm not a member of one tracker that fits those parameters, but I do have a combination of trackers that all together do fit those desires. Number 2 is easy, it's just a matter of taking the time to find those individuals in any group. Number three is the tough one, but there are plenty of sites out there that have the end user in mind.

Do you feel you are on enough trackers, and what do you think is too many trackers?

I am on more trackers that I need to be sure. But, as a staffer, I think that I am required to be on some sites for more than files, especially in light of the belief I hold that there is a bigger community involved. On one hand it has to be a detriment to some of those sites, but on the other, who am I to say I won't have something valid to add at some point?

I don't mean to make it sound like i am a member of 5 million trackers, as I'm not. But were I a normal user, I'd certainly have fewer sites. I grab files from all the sites I am a member of, and I seed the files I grab for as long as I can, so I don't feel too bad about not snatching 100gb a week on some sites.

I think the definition of too many is really up to the individual, but I will echo a common answer in this thread that if you are just logging in to 50 trackers once a week to make sure you don't get pruned, you most certainly have too many trackers. I see no need for 50 trackers for anyone tbh, and the folks that have that many or more trackers are wasting not only the trackers time and resources, but their own as well.

What do you see the politics of BT entailing, and does it affect your actions in this field?

I am going to make a serious effort to be as brief as possible in this question as I could probably expound on it for days :P

First off, there is a definitive mob rule in BT and it has been a evident to me from the start. The biggest problem with that is the fact that there is no common agreed upon set of behavioural guidelines for new people to use to lead them in this field. Only the current vaporous and ill defined whims of the mob.

As bt has exploded, that problem has gotten worse and worse and tbh, I don't think there can be a resolution of it. A need has risen for new ways to approach how to keep sites active, and with that need, so grows the confusion about what is required of you, the end user, to be considered active.

This has led to a very wide difference in that definition on the part of staffers and the core members of those sites. Which in turn leads to a lot of disagreements about what is the common law in BT. Just by virtue of the nature of what we do, logic would state that a free hand is implicit, but it's not. We are expected to be respectful of the members who compose that core of sites, but can suffer extreme repercussions if we deviate from that respect, especially if we dabble in the bigger community.

It's created a need to learn, on our own usually, what is acceptable and what is not, but this field holds little in the way of forgiveness, and that is hard to swallow for me. So yes, my actions are affected by that, and I often times find myself biting my tongue on a plethora of subjects for simple self preservation of me and my site. I'm not trying to imply that I hold excessively different views from the majority on lots of subjects, just that I feel a need to curtail full and unfettered discussion because I just don't have the time to explain myself 20 different ways to 20 different people.

Do you feel there is a ethos neccessary when interacting, and if so, what does it entail?

Bluntly speaking, I think yes, and I use the rules I practice when dealing with people in real life, tranlsated to BT. Be nice till given a reason not to be nice, be understanding when understanding is called for, sharing knowledge with those who possess less of it than I do, and excercising caution when caution is called for. Pretty simple really, but that pretty much covers almost any situation, real life or internet, that we might come across.


Hope this makes a bit clearer where I personally stand on these subjects I have so avidly heard other peoples thoughts on and thanks to everyone for taking this thread seriously. It's very cool to hear all of your folks' thoughts andd I hope some people read this thread and learn a little bit about what makes BT tick. :)

[BrianH]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

[Intr4ns1t]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

Well, first off, the only thing I ever traded in my life was baseball cards when I was a teenager, and secondly, all that was beaten into the ground more than a year ago, but thank you for the well spoken and greatly enlightening post about how you view bit torrent.

[DonkeyPacker]

Well, first off, the only thing I ever traded in my life was baseball cards when I was a teenager, and secondly, all that was beaten into the ground more than a year ago, but thank you for the well spoken and greatly enlightening post about how you view bit torrent.
Fuck baseball I traded Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. I think I might still have my Reptile deck even...

[MadIrish]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

Or maybe this thread's not about that. Seriously though :ermm:




First off, there is a definitive mob rule in BT and it has been a evident to me from the start. The biggest problem with that is the fact that there is no common agreed upon set of behavioural guidelines for new people to use to lead them in this field. Only the current vaporous and ill defined whims of the mob.

As bt has exploded, that problem has gotten worse and worse and tbh, I don't think there can be a resolution of it. A need has risen for new ways to approach how to keep sites active, and with that need, so grows the confusion about what is required of you, the end user, to be considered active.

This has led to a very wide difference in that definition on the part of staffers and the core members of those sites. Which in turn leads to a lot of disagreements about what is the common law in BT. Just by virtue of the nature of what we do, logic would state that a free hand is implicit, but it's not. We are expected to be respectful of the members who compose that core of sites, but can suffer extreme repercussions if we deviate from that respect, especially if we dabble in the bigger community.

It's created a need to learn, on our own usually, what is acceptable and what is not, but this field holds little in the way of forgiveness, and that is hard to swallow for me.

Some interesting points in there (and in the rest of your post but I'll stick to that bit for now). I think you're mostly right about the mob rule thing, that the problem is indeed getting worse and that it is indeed hard to see any resolution to it. I do think though that its easy to forget, when active on forums like this one or the countless other invite/BT related sites that no doubt exist, or as someone involved in running or staffing a tracker, that a lot of members on sites don't necessarily participate in, or even have a great awareness of, a lot of the issues surrounding BT. I know I breezed along in blissful ignorance of a lot of the politics for ages, simply downloading and seeding things I liked, maintaining decent ratios despite my then 25kb/s upload, and only ever really having positive interactions with other members or staff. Its only when you really look into things a bit deeper, which many people may never do, that you find what you assumed to be univerally held behavioural codes, based on nothing greater than common sense and courtesy, are not so universal after all.

My first proper exposure to that was probably a thread on here I found linked through my old fav. sites' forum. That site was (and is) focused on privacy, I never thought anyone else would have an issue with that until I read some of the vitriol, deliberately destructive attacks on the way it was run etc. I found that quite shocking, not because most of it was nonsense, but because I couldn't at the time imagine why people would want to behave like that about a small community of people just sharing with each other.

Since that time I've become a lot more aware of the nuances involved in the wider BT "community", and on the internet in general, and aware that there's a lot of people out there who are only really capable of thinking about themselves, who would far rather tear something down than become involved in it constructively. Those people also tend to shout the loudest, making their numbers perhaps seem much greater than they actually are, and their influence perhaps makes it much harder for those new to the "community" to establish what acceptable modes of behaviour are, and what point there is in sticking to those anyway. Which in turn makes it harder for those established people to discern between someone who simply doesn't know, and someone who does and is choosing to pay no attention regardless. Its a vicious cycle really, to which I unfortunately doubt there is any tangible or achievable solution.

[sear]

Those people also tend to shout the loudest, making their numbers perhaps seem much greater than they actually are, and their influence perhaps makes it much harder for those new to the "community" to establish what acceptable modes of behaviour are, and what point there is in sticking to those anyway. Which in turn makes it harder for those established people to discern between someone who simply doesn't know, and someone who does and is choosing to pay no attention regardless. Its a vicious cycle really, to which I unfortunately doubt there is any tangible or achievable solution.

I like this. It made me think a bit which is nice :P

They do shout the loudest and most of my time ends up being spent dealing with people like this which I have to say makes me a little jaded. In the end though there's two reasons I do what I do with BT, the silent majority that you mentioned...and the good active members. At least for me the real diehards that love their site make it all worthwhile. They're what keeps me going instead of saying fuck it and downloading from FTP or another source.

I think the main problem with the private BT community is that it's been overrun by the types that you mentioned that love to complain the loudest and make a big sting whether that's complaining or vilifying someone. This can make the 'politics' of the whole scene rather ugly at times. Then there's also the collectors who just join up to be part of 'the site' whatever site that maybe I think they piss me off the most but if I start rambling about that I'll be here all afternoon and I want to go watch the new house ;)

I'd also be interested to hear what people have to say about the 'big' egos of the BT world if anyone has something to say. By this I don't meant he big ego of your everyday 1337 user with all the private sites (yes that sounds lame but hopefully you'll know what I mean) but the actual players of BT. Does this lessen your enjoyment of trackers or do most people not even take it in? I guess maybe it's the position I'm in but I see a lot of this so I'm wondering does the average BT community member even think about these guys?

[Intr4ns1t]

They do shout the loudest and most of my time ends up being spent dealing with people like this which I have to say makes me a little jaded. In the end though there's two reasons I do what I do with BT, the silent majority that you mentioned...and the good active members. At least for me the real diehards that love their site make it all worthwhile. They're what keeps me going instead of saying fuck it and downloading from FTP or another source.

I think the main problem with the private BT community is that it's been overrun by the types that you mentioned that love to complain the loudest and make a big sting whether that's complaining or vilifying someone. This can make the 'politics' of the whole scene rather ugly at times. Then there's also the collectors who just join up to be part of 'the site' whatever site that maybe I think they piss me off the most but if I start rambling about that I'll be here all afternoon and I want to go watch the new house ;)

I'd also be interested to hear what people have to say about the 'big' egos of the BT world if anyone has something to say. By this I don't meant he big ego of your everyday 1337 user with all the private sites (yes that sounds lame but hopefully you'll know what I mean) but the actual players of BT. Does this lessen your enjoyment of trackers or do most people not even take it in? I guess maybe it's the position I'm in but I see a lot of this so I'm wondering does the average BT community member even think about these guys?

I won't lie, I was/am absolutely fascinated by the sociology of it all. Probably should have put it in my reasons I use BT to the degree I do in fact.:P

It's intriguing to watch how the words of someone with that cumulative respect I keep referring to can have a profound impact on the greater world of BT. Just the idea you are talking about is funny in it's own right, in that those of us who are entrenched in the bigger community all know the names you are referring to even if we've never shared a word with them. Sometimes you can almost hear the hushed defference to those folks in peoples "voice" when they talk about those players.


Some interesting points in there (and in the rest of your post but I'll stick to that bit for now). I think you're mostly right about the mob rule thing, that the problem is indeed getting worse and that it is indeed hard to see any resolution to it. I do think though that its easy to forget, when active on forums like this one or the countless other invite/BT related sites that no doubt exist, or as someone involved in running or staffing a tracker, that a lot of members on sites don't necessarily participate in, or even have a great awareness of, a lot of the issues surrounding BT.

And yet, they are still held to those standards despite that fact. That's why I see it as such a big issue in this current era of BT history. Now, granted, there can't really even be a universal and well defined set of guidelines, because of the fact that the community is spread out over many sites that are each run under a different set of internal guidelines, with a mind for the overall good of the society. But, at some point, most people that stick with private trackers do learn at least the bare essentials. The rest, well they either move on, or they are forced on.

Doesn't really seem fair, but as is the mantra when faced with the immutable voice of staff saying "you fucked up, gtfo", Their tracker, their rules. There are no democracies in private sites, be they BT or anything else on the web.

[DeadCell]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

Get your facts straight before you post retarded comments you know nothing about.

Intr4ns1t, epic thread.

[n00bz0r]

u forgot to mention u are an ex trader and how ptn was started by a group of traders

duh.. retards like ya make FST 'out Fucking STanding'.. :frusty:
refrain from posting if ya have no idea what you are on about..

Tranny.. I have got to agree wid DeadCell..this is one EPIC thread.. imma post me answers asap! :P

[Bad-Day]

1337 doesn´t exist.

@sear


Do ppl really enjoy the trackers they belong to ?

I too wonder .... what do ppl enjoy the most in certain trackers... if the friends, the content or .... just forums...

I still think that , we have stagnated.... always the same faces everywhere... It wasn´t always like this, but whit the increase off security, its seams the only ones who can xxx or xxxx are the guys who don´t really need it.... i.e we have too much to offer, and no one to enjoy it.... ( that´s what i think )

[sear]

You're probably right mate about too much to offer and no one to enjoy it. But yes people do enjoy the trackers they belong to. Every site has their diehards and you can see the enjoyment they get out of it easily. I'd also say that the vast majority of members that you never see and just download are also enjoying it well at least enjoying having access to free media.

[BrianH]

Get your facts straight before you post retarded comments you know nothing about.




duh.. retards like ya make FST 'out Fucking STanding'.. :frusty:
refrain from posting if ya have no idea what you are on about..


the truth hurts



You're probably right mate about too much to offer and no one to enjoy it. But yes people do enjoy the trackers they belong to. Every site has their diehards and you can see the enjoyment they get out of it easily. I'd also say that the vast majority of members that you never see and just download are also enjoying it well at least enjoying having access to free media.

you're right sear.... but imo ppl who create places such as fsc with an awful tracker and a forum slower than dialup on a t1 connection ...dont give us torrenters much to enjoy except that it is ranked 9 on a traders level list

[Intr4ns1t]

You raise a great point Bad-Day. Market saturation I guess. Perhaps the boom in the number of trackers doesn't parallel the boom in torrenters and it's thinned the available bandwidth out to all trackers. It is an observable fact that many trackers have gotten proactive in the search for active members what with the rise in the number of interview channels on irc for a number of trackers, and the idea of "recruiters"

Trackers want more members, but they also want safer members and it's created a sort of forced socialization, in that it's fast becoming a prerequisite to have a demonstrable community activity level on the trackers people already have. That activity is a commodity in the trust equation. But there are only so many active folks for now and barring turning people into torrenters that otherwise wouldn't is not really an option.

@ BrianH or whoever you normally are, do you need a hug man?

[Bad-Day]

I guess so Sear.


But still i wonder where are all those thousands, hundreds, etc... off users that RIAA talks about... How is it possible, that the major trackers, ( well established ) seam to be having an hard time, getting new members that want to leech ?

Are people still using emule ? Dcc ? Or have they all run away to Usenet or rapid share forums ?

I guess..... maybe.... were not that many...

wow i have to edit this didint saw your post there Intr4ns1t :) morning buddie.

BrianH , respect.... But when u say, fsc blablabla level9, you relly sound like a frustrated collector, dude....... why the fuck did u need to talk about levels in this thread ? make your own post ( i think i know u you are :) ) and bitch about it....... dont ruin this one. please do not reply in here either, go fuck a squirl or a cow.

[DeadCell]

lol Brian, your cute. Can I hire you to cheer me up for those rainy day's?

[sear]

you're right sear.... but imo ppl who create places such as fsc with an awful tracker and a forum slower than dialup on a t1 connection ...dont give us torrenters much to enjoy except that it is ranked 9 on a traders level list

Wow you're a real gem. I'm truly hurt.

@Bad-Day, they're using public trackers I guess or giants like TL that's all the average user really wants is huge swarms.

[Yoann64]

@Bad-Day, they're using public trackers I guess or giants like TL that's all the average user really wants is huge swarms.
Why the "average" user ?

[Intr4ns1t]

@Bad-Day, they're using public trackers I guess or giants like TL that's all the average user really wants is huge swarms.
Why the "average" user ?

I would say that he's right myself. Of the millions(?) using bit torrent, only a small percentage of them are aware that there is a community that feeds that media mill. Most people just want files with as little effort as possible, and the monster swarms make it easier to follow the rules.

[Bad-Day]

Average user, has someone who doesn't feel the need to get involved .. thats just wants to download the stuff and nothing else.

But from what i have seen, on ppl i meet here and there,....... some off them have no idea trackers, have forums, or that there are trackers were people help each other, and become friends....

That´s why i said, i liked it better in the old days, we were friends, helping each other... and we were cool like hell :)

This space between users and the tracker, is mostly a problem cause by the giant trackers like Tl , they do a fantastic job, but they are not a community.... i.e Who ever said tl has a good forum or this or that ?

[Yoann64]

Average user, has someone who doesn't feel the need to get involved .. thats just wants to download the stuff and nothing else.

But from what i have seen, on ppl i meet here and there,....... some off them have no idea trackers, have forums, or that there are trackers were people help each other, and become friends....

That´s why i said, i liked it better in the old days, we were friends, helping each other... and we were cool like hell :)

This space between users and the tracker, is mostly a problem cause by the giant trackers like Tl , they do a fantastic job, but they are not a community.... i.e Who ever said tl has a good forum or this or that ?


I would say that he's right myself. Of the millions(?) using bit torrent, only a small percentage of them are aware that there is a community that feeds that media mill. Most people just want files with as little effort as possible, and the monster swarms make it easier to follow the rules.
Ok i understand better the used of "the average user".
Just a question. Do you think it is easy to integrate a community established some years ago ?
(As in real life when you join a group of friends who have common experiences)

[Bad-Day]

You edited your post :D

Do you think it is easy to integrate a community established some years ago ?
(As in real life when you join a group of friends who have common experiences)

It is up to you, entirely.

I have arrived every single tracker late, they where all already well established... and i never had any problems metting people or making friends... specially @ E i meet great guys over there who teched me so much.... ( joined less than a year a go ) altough i found it funny that it was easier to make friends whit the staff than normal users, maybe because most off the guys in the irc are kids, and the staff is usually the only ones whit more than 18years.
/me thinks this could explain why i never got along whit anyone at ftn ... :S

[sear]

I just meant that most people that use BT to download aren't interested in or know about the other aspects of trackers that some people like. If you are joe blow torrenter then pretty much all you want is to download at the fastest speed possible which means big swarms, or $1000 GB seedboxes.

[Intr4ns1t]

(As in real life when you join a group of friends who have common experiences)

That's one of the cool things about Private BT, generally once you have established yourself you do share a common experience. That of figuring out how to establish yourself. It's no small task, and having the desire to do so puts you at the advantage of knowing more that those "average" users. I'm not trying to say that it makes it efortless to fit into a community, but it does put you on common ground with the other members who have travelled that route.

[Bad-Day]

Or do it like me, just spam the irc´s someone will find it funny..... and in no time you will have new friends :D


Intransit i couldn't have said it better.

Ps: IdolEyes787 is ghey. ( Saw it on the news channel )

[IdolEyes787]

(As in real life when you join a group of friends who have common experiences)

That's one of the cool things about Private BT, generally once you have established yourself you do share a common experience. That of figuring out how to establish yourself. It's no small task, and having the desire to do so puts you at the advantage of knowing more that those "average" users. I'm not trying to say that it makes it efortless to fit into a community, but it does put you on common ground with the other members who have travelled that route.

Unfortunately fitting at a lot of places means having the same limited scope of appreciation as their increasing younger user base.


@ Pride -Day then whoever Idoleyes is I wish him luck in his relationships.

[Intr4ns1t]

Unfortunately fitting at a lot of places means having the same limited scope of appreciation as their increasing younger user base.

Fair enough. So does that add a need for mentorship to the unaware masses of youthful members? Or do the "senior" members have no obligation beyond just enjoying their insular communities?

[IdolEyes787]

I tell them that Heroes sucks if that's any help?

[Bad-Day]

Its different , becoming a members on lots off places, in a year, or to become a member at lots off places in 5 years...

ouch* That hurt.

[IdolEyes787]

Seriously you cannot teach anything to someone who has no desire to learn.

[Intr4ns1t]

Seriously you cannot teach anything to someone who has no desire to learn.

You'll get no argument from me on that one ;)

[bas1c]

I BT because it's an addiction. Same with stats and getting to those uber ranks. It's not even about the content anymore for me, unless it's a music tracker.

[Intr4ns1t]

I BT because it's an addiction. Same with stats and getting to those uber ranks. It's not even about the content anymore for me, unless it's a music tracker.

Well, I think you should be applauded for being honest. You actually are bringing up something that probably should be addressed if we are really talking about all aspects of BT. I am positive that there are quite a few folks that also find themselves unable to stop, much like gambling, the feeling of elation at achieving some transient goal driving them well past sane usage levels.

I mean, I'm sure most of us have at least heard reference to internet addiction, so it can only be worse in BT as there is a semi tangible reward to it, in the speed you get your files, or the esteem of the trackers you gain entry to, or the selection you have to choose from. It's easy for someone to say "use moderation" but there is always the crutch of community there to help us convince ourselves that it's a valid use of time.

I wish you luck in dealing with your addiction bas1c, and only wish I could tell you something to make it easier to unplug, other than just saying "you should unplug" but there's not really much else to say.

[bas1c]

I BT because it's an addiction. Same with stats and getting to those uber ranks. It's not even about the content anymore for me, unless it's a music tracker.

Well, I think you should be applauded for being honest. You actually are bringing up something that probably should be addressed if we are really talking about all aspects of BT. I am positive that there are quite a few folks that also find themselves unable to stop, much like gambling, the feeling of elation at achieving some transient goal driving them well past sane usage levels.

I mean, I'm sure most of us have at least heard reference to internet addiction, so it can only be worse in BT as there is a semi tangible reward to it, in the speed you get your files, or the esteem of the trackers you gain entry to, or the selection you have to choose from. It's easy for someone to say "use moderation" but there is always the crutch of community there to help us convince ourselves that it's a valid use of time.

I wish you luck in dealing with your addiction bas1c, and only wish I could tell you something to make it easier to unplug, other than just saying "you should unplug" but there's not really much else to say.

Well I'm not THAT far gone. RSS, a good filter, and a box definitely gives you peace of mind. But it's definitely fun to log in to see your percentages/stats everyday.

I see where you are getting at though. Maybe it falls under addiction, but at least in my case, I think it's more about exceeding and trying to be the best at whatever I may be doing. That drive that always makes me want to be on top. Once I get to that transient goal of mine I'll be 'done' and move onto the next thing.

Now onto [my] addiction problems: gambling and alcohol. I have no explanation for those other than that I have an addictive personality and like to let go every once in awhile.

[Yoann64]

Seriously you cannot teach anything to someone who has no desire to learn.

You'll get no argument from me on that one ;)
There is no bad students, but only bad teachers ! Nowadays,maybe the major problem of the BT is the education of "the average member". BT looks like a "McDonald", where the people come, take what they want, and go ! You just have to look at how many people pushed the "thanks button" or let a comment for the uploader in all the trackers where you're on, and to compare it with the "snatched list"

[BrianH]

U dunno what is IC ? its a forum. Nothing like tr or tps or cfs, ppl dont beg for nothing... or suck...


lmfao minute i joined that shitty forum all these scrubs kept tellin me how we were all family and then some indian guy kept messaging me telling me how he dreams to join sites

left that place in the dust


I BT because it's an addiction. Same with stats and getting to those uber ranks. It's not even about the content anymore for me, unless it's a music tracker.

how is bt an addiction u just download and go afk ...

[Intr4ns1t]

There is no bad students, but only bad teachers !

A student by definition has a desire to learn. If someone does not wish to learn, they are no student. I would love to hear some ideas on how to teach those "average" users though. You can't force someone to read the rules let alone any primer on the commonly accepted "rules" while ignoring the fact that there is no commonly accepted "rules". Most folks that use bit torrent get their exposure from sites like Mininova, Isohunt, TPB and Demonoid at first, so things like ratios and seedtime requirements are foreign to most of them. It's not till they get sick of fakes and infections that they start to seek out more trustworthy sources of media. Then they have to relearn how to torrent, if they care to change their habits.

[sear]

There was a great tutorial on oink on being a good member of private trackers. I read it when I was first starting out and it taught me a lot, it was funny too. I'd love to know if anyone has seen it hosted someplace else.

[sez]

There was a great tutorial on oink on being a good member of private trackers.

whats your idea of a good member on a torrent site then?coz in my thinking,you can't put a bar on it and say that this is the exemplar for everyone else to look upon.
On the site you patently staff on for example,community comes first or so i've heard and from that I can draw forum activity and IRC being key for anyone to be considered an ideal member.My question then begs,how do you think you are fairing as of this scenario?(90% participation being an A, anything below an F).

To draw a queer parallel,TL(as being a for files tracker)will prune this 10% who aren't using the tracker as its meant to be.It would be informative to know whether you live upto the brand and do actually indeed do something about your bad users as well.

[Yoann64]

There is no bad students, but only bad teachers !

A student by definition has a desire to learn. If someone does not wish to learn, they are no student. I would love to hear some ideas on how to teach those "average" users though. You can't force someone to read the rules let alone any primer on the commonly accepted "rules" while ignoring the fact that there is no commonly accepted "rules". Most folks that use bit torrent get their exposure from sites like Mininova, Isohunt, TPB and Demonoid at first, so things like ratios and seedtime requirements are foreign to most of them. It's not till they get sick of fakes and infections that they start to seek out more trustworthy sources of media. Then they have to relearn how to torrent, if they care to change their habits.
"There is no bad students, but only bad teachers" is from
There are no bad students, only bad teachers. The child who understands why he was asked to provide such intellectual effort, manual or physical, the child understands that he will use in his life everyday (What is reading, writing, calculation?), that child will be involved in learning and related problems such as discipline diminishes accordingly. For this it is necessary - always ahead of school work - to discuss, argue, to treat children as individuals in their own right and provide the best possible conditions to develop their critical sense.(sorry, I'm not sure of the translation)
For example, the word "Students" may be replaced by "new users" and the word "teachers" by "staff" or "former users".

[sear]

There was a great tutorial on oink on being a good member of private trackers.

whats your idea of a good member on a torrent site then?coz in my thinking,you can't put a bar on it and say that this is the exemplar for everyone else to look upon.
On the site you patently staff on for example,community comes first or so i've heard and from that I can draw forum activity and IRC being key for anyone to be considered an ideal member.My question then begs,how do you think you are fairing as of this scenario?(90% participation being an A, anything below an F).

To draw a queer parallel,TL(as being a for files tracker)will prune this 10% who aren't using the tracker as its meant to be.It would be informative to know whether you live upto the brand and do actually indeed do something about your bad users as well.

Well the tute I was talking about was more about explaining how ratios work and why it's important to give back what you take, basic stuff like that.

To answer your question I agree with you. I think there is no 'one' ideal type of member. Everybody does what they can. Some just download and help that way. Others seed till it bleeds and keep torrents alive. Some people might bring their fast pipes while others participate in the forums and IRC while some just live in the IRC and you never see them on the site hardly at all.

Every 'good' member just does what comes natural to them really and take part in the way they feel like. Just because someone doesn't want to take part in the forums doesn't make them a bad member lol it is a tracker after all. Conversely you could be the most well known member in the forums and IRC and if you piss all over the tracker by not sharing back what you take then you're still going to have a problem.

As for fsc well I guess we have a reputation for being 'community' based because we're small only about 1800 members and we like to encourage a community spirit in our forums and we actually believe in the moto sharing is caring. For us it's about sharing files and talking to people who share common interests or even just bring something interesting to the table. We do it for the love of it not the money or the ego or the fucking 1337 of it.

Above all though the site was founded on a policy of respect, so yes we've fostered a community but that doesn't mean you're a bad member if you don't want to participate in the forums and IRC we don't think about it like that at all. TBH I'd say only 20-30 percent of our members are active in the forums and even less on the IRC but our goal isn't to make sure every member is active in the community side. All we want is to provide a small, secure and private place for friends and friend of friends to share and if they wish they can have a chat about whatever they like.

As to your other point do we punish bad users, yes we do all the time. Though we actually try to work with people and give them a chance to step up before slamming the ban hammer down and no member is ever going to be punished for not taking part in the community side lol. We did prune a bunch of inactive members a while ago but that was people who hadn't logged on and they could all have their accounts back if they wanted.

[Frias]

This thread is not that different from cabalo's or albo's, you can take out the flames and the fun (just cause they are not organized) in those threads and they're pretty much like this one. Is the fact of being more organized or that i posted reason to make it epic? More pages?

I use BT cause trackers have forum.php :happy:
Ofc i use it to download stuff be it legal or not, since movies, TV, music, whatever, and also games for my homemates (the only game i like is NFS and i prefer to download the stuff they want rather than invite them to somewhere where they can get the stuff fast :ermm:). First cause TV shows air in PT 2 years after airing in US or UK and most part don't even air, second cause i prefer to download than to pay for it (with some exceptions ofc). ;)

If any site fullfills my needs? well, if not i just try google (be it cause i can't find it anywhere be it cause it's being too slow and i may get some RS links for the same content :yup:

I'm happy with the trackers i'm a member/user of. As i sayd if i can't find it i just try google of ask to one of my friends (thought that usually are them the ones who ask me :dabs: )

Politicts affect me just for the exclusive torrents but well, i just respect the rule (i'm happy that at least i can download that there).

Morals of BT? Keep the security in mind, respect the rules (even the stupid ones) and use common sense.

I like seedwhores :thumbsup: (the people that is seeding when i download the torrent :yup: :cheers: :yahoo: ) but i just don't give a damn shit to the ratiowhores (the people that download the torrent when it comes out just cause it's in the <imput category name here> and so it probably has more than <imput number of GBs here>) :nono:

<imput ramdon smile string here to spam the thread>

[Yoann64]

To answer your question I agree with you. I think there is no 'one' ideal type of member. Everybody does what they can. Some just download and help that way. Others seed till it bleeds and keep torrents alive. Some people might bring their fast pipes while others participate in the forums and IRC while some just live in the IRC and you never see them on the site hardly at all.

Every 'good' member just does what comes natural to them really and take part in the way they feel like. Just because someone doesn't want to take part in the forums doesn't make them a bad member lol it is a tracker after all.
You reassure me because I was beginning to think that I was really a bad member. :P

[Bad-Day]

To answer your question I agree with you. I think there is no 'one' ideal type of member. Everybody does what they can. Some just download and help that way. Others seed till it bleeds and keep torrents alive. Some people might bring their fast pipes while others participate in the forums and IRC while some just live in the IRC and you never see them on the site hardly at all.

Every 'good' member just does what comes natural to them really and take part in the way they feel like. Just because someone doesn't want to take part in the forums doesn't make them a bad member lol it is a tracker after all.


:yup:

[Intr4ns1t]

This thread is not that different from cabalo's or albo's, you can take out the flames and the fun (just cause they are not organized) in those threads and they're pretty much like this one. Is the fact of being more organized or that i posted reason to make it epic? More pages?


Word per post ratio maybe? :P

[killercam101]

Are we all having fun yet?

http://23.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kq52d8suci1qz6z0no1_500.png

[kallieb]

This thread is not that different from cabalo's or albo's, you can take out the flames and the fun (just cause they are not organized) in those threads and they're pretty much like this one. Is the fact of being more organized or that i posted reason to make it epic? More pages?

The difference in this thread, as opposed to one's started by those named and others, is that the intent here is on debate, exploration and invitation to anyone wanting a good convo - see where it goes so to speak - rather than some veiled and cynical means to poke fun, flame, or pursue an agenda.

It's been an interesting read so far. Thanks to the op for opening it up :)

[Swepsycho]

Are we all having fun yet?

http://23.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kq52d8suci1qz6z0no1_500.png
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA never make when i see u..... i see u.... fst is filesharing.....no pictureforum....

[Intr4ns1t]

This thread is not that different from cabalo's or albo's, you can take out the flames and the fun (just cause they are not organized) in those threads and they're pretty much like this one. Is the fact of being more organized or that i posted reason to make it epic? More pages?

The difference in this thread, as opposed to one's started by those named and others, is that the intent here is on debate, exploration and invitation to anyone wanting a good convo - see where it goes so to speak - rather than some veiled and cynical means to poke fun, flame, or pursue an agenda.

It's been an interesting read so far. Thanks to the op for opening it up :)

It may sound like bullshit, but I really do get alot of happiness from this game, and really only want the best for all involved. The more input the better, and yes I have made great efforts to try to keep this thread interactive. It's always a joy to see people, who have the experience that newbs don't, explain how they see things. It can only serve to better the quality of user that all trackers get and that makes everyones experience more positive.

[The_Martinator]

The difference in this thread, as opposed to one's started by those named and others, is that the intent here is on debate, exploration and invitation to anyone wanting a good convo - see where it goes so to speak - rather than some veiled and cynical means to poke fun, flame, or pursue an agenda.

It's been an interesting read so far. Thanks to the op for opening it up :)

It may sound like bullshit, but I really do get alot of happiness from this game, and really only want the best for all involved. The more input the better, and yes I have made great efforts to try to keep this thread interactive. It's always a joy to see people, who have the experience that newbs don't, explain how they see things. It can only serve to better the quality of user that all trackers get and that makes everyones experience more positive.

I'd just like to add that I wouldn't mind newbs respond to this thread. No so that I can bash them, but with the intention to see how they see things. Maybe by knowing that the staffers can see which aspects of BT need to be further emphasized...

Or maybe it's just me.

[Yoann64]

I'd just like to add that I wouldn't mind newbs respond to this thread. No so that I can bash them, but with the intention to see how they see things. Maybe by knowing that the staffers can see which aspects of BT need to be further emphasized...

Or maybe it's just me.
Is not it a bit presumptuous ? I personally always feel "Newbs" because I always find something new to learn.

[Intr4ns1t]

I'd just like to add that I wouldn't mind newbs respond to this thread. No so that I can bash them, but with the intention to see how they see things. Maybe by knowing that the staffers can see which aspects of BT need to be further emphasized...

Or maybe it's just me.

I would love that myself, especially some questions. As I said in my original post, I'm not just looking for a list of answers to the questions I asked, but anyones real thoughts on what we do as well. I don't believe it's presumptuous to assume a level of experience greater than the average bear, as those that have given well thought out answers have imo demonstrated that they at least pay attention to some of the less obvious factors that make this world go round.

[Duckater]

To be honest n00bs answers would interest me on this thread as some real good points have been made. But what a n00b see's about torenting may be completely diff to people who have posted so far :)
It would also be interesting to find out what sorts of trackers people started off in and what bought them to FSt and if they have changed there views on torrenting since joining here, or simular sites.
Yeah I know a lot to ask for :lol:

[dvdasacd]

This is such a nice topic! It's one we all think about often, I think :) (well who's "we" that I refer to here? I'd say, more your average long-time/experienced torrenter/staffer - not to rule out noobs from sharing their thoughts here :)). The BT world is a many varied place, full of people from all around the world and with many interesting and varied characters in it. Some people are "in it" for very different reasons to other people - some reasons better than others (to reduce a whole slimey bucket of issues into a mild, cool five words).

I tend to write massive essays in discussion threads of this nature but given the already big posts preceding me I feel at home writing this post :).

Ethics of private torrenting is always a topic I love chatting about with some close friends and colleagues. I feel in this world it's something you can always refine within yourself. It's more like wisdom, in this bt world, it's applied common sense and being aware of how our communities work and acting in a way that is harmonious to them - and at the same time, *not* acting in ways that harm them. So it's far more than just obeying what's written on rules.php - ethics extends to this larger idea of the well-being of the *tracker community* and being a responsible member of it. I'm feeling a bit enlightened zen yoda-like writing these strange peaceful guidelines of torrenting monkdom, but it's how I feel. :)

Depending on the offence that someone commits, there should be appropriate action taken or negative regard shown towards that person, but one thing I've learnt, is that some people might take super staunch views on a particular issue but you don't see it as important as they do - you have to respect each other and not hassle another if they dont take as strong a stance on something as you do.

But as an example: when I see people expose urls/info of communities who expressly don't want that, that's something that's negative for that tracker and the tracker community (even if just due to the disrespect); and therefore negative regard/action should be shown/taken towards that person.

As for politics: I have a thick skin, am easy going and not easily offended, and don't like to offend, so if I found myself in the midst of some e-drama which somehow I got involved in, it wouldn't really be too stressful an experience or a huge problem for me, - just annoying, frustrating and sometimes unfortunate what happens and how people get rifts with each other.

But the whole politics of bt world is genuinely interesting and even fun to both watch and sometimes be involved in. Politics is not just the fighting side of it - but politics is also about building alliances, making friends, strengthening the larger bt (and even file sharing) community.

So what do I hate? Well, it irritates me sometimes to see people get so easily offended at things. When people have offended, insulted, shouted rude things at me, I have never lashed back at them or insulted them back - it's not my personality anyway. Having said that, I have very strong (often stubborn) views and principles on many things, and some people I have a strong dislike for in the bt world. And sometimes I just get sick of seeing dramas happen between people - sometimes I just want to say to them (and I do) - "It's the fricking internet! Loosen up and have fun - and forgive each other anda forget, for cow's sake!" And we must never forget, BT should remain a (fun, illegal :P) hobby, NOT anything more than that (not a job, not your life, not a business/livelihood, not a stressful consuming pursuit, not an ego trip) - and if only people would not get so caught up in things there would be a lot more peace around here, other forums, and the staffing circles.

So all in all I'm not one who gets too political (and I guess vocal) - I'll just leave that to my colleagues (if I can) hahah ;) :P <3

And, err, that's about it. :naughty:

[The_Martinator]

I'd just like to add that I wouldn't mind newbs respond to this thread. No so that I can bash them, but with the intention to see how they see things. Maybe by knowing that the staffers can see which aspects of BT need to be further emphasized...

Or maybe it's just me.
Is not it a bit presumptuous ? I personally always feel "Newbs" because I always find something new to learn.

Of course it's relative. I learn new stuff regarding BT a lot of the time too. I was talking about people who are new to BT, not those who know little about it.

[Intr4ns1t]

But the whole politics of bt world is genuinely interesting and even fun to both watch and sometimes be involved in. Politics is not just the fighting side of it - but politics is also about building alliances, making friends, strengthening the larger bt (and even file sharing) community.

That is a very important point you just raised, and one I am a firm believer in. It's easy to get lulled into an insular attitude about your personal favorite communities, and ignore the bigger implications of both the fighting and the cooperation. Problems arise when one voice gets too much influence, but that voice changes from person to person and group to group and the ever changing flow of these politics is indeed fascinating. Especially in light of the fact that there are so many different people from different cultures interacting on a, for the most part, level playing field.


Intr4nsed1t: Sorry I didn't see that post yesterday, but the front page of the index was being lambasted with frivolity, so I lost this thread to the shady crevasses of the back pages of the board :P