Health Care in Singapore

[j2k4]

Interesting...

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/12/23/the-singapore-alternative/

[clocker]

Interesting in what way?

I thought your whole mantra was that government is inherently incapable of running anything properly and the private sector was the only entity configured to provide efficient service.

Wouldn't Singapore be considered "socialist" and therefore, automatically evil/bad?

[devilsadvocate]

that health “reform” that gives people more health insurance will only raise health care costs. Insurance itself is the problem. When people don't spend their own money, they don't care what health care costs.
I wonder what the statistics are for people who pass away from illnesses that are treatable if caught early enough due to not going to the doctor because they were worried about what it might cost.

Catastrophic health issues aside, could you please explain just how people who go to the doctor are not spending their "own money" when the average premium for a single person is $4,800+/- and a family is $13,500+/-. The vast majority of people don't spend anywhere near that amount.

Surely the insurance companies care how much things cost or they wouldn't negotiate the prices to 1/4-1/5 the price an individual would have to pay.

Personally I don't know anyone that goes to the doctor on a whim.

[j2k4]

Interesting in what way?

HSAs demonstrated as a way of controlling costs is interesting, I think...one of the methodologies/strategies our congress utterly rejects, without basis and out-of-hand.

Kind of like tort reform and interstate insurance shopping as methods that would be helpful but are never considered.

Of course, if you'd like to defend these types of propensities, the kind that are aimed to defeat any sort of self-determinative ability being ascribed to the "insured"?

I seem to remember your rejecting private individual control over savings accounts intended to augment Social Security as well, preferring instead to put it all in the hands of the G, right?

[bigboab]

Since Thatcher/Blair took this country down the road of Private Finance Initiative and complete privatisation this country has gone down the tubes;

You have as much chance of catching a disease in the hospital as anywhere else. The hospitals are not being cleaned properly.

More prisoners are escaping or not being taken to court on time because the company concerned forgot.

Soldiers are going to war ill equiped.

From having one reasonably efficient Rail service we now have countless inefficient rail services who will only purchase the profit making routes. same applies to the buses.

Profit before performance. You can't sack a firm who gave you a back hander to get the contract in the first place or am I being too cynical.:(

[devilsadvocate]

@bigboab

You're British yes?

When all your gas, electric and water was privatized did your bills go down?

[bigboab]

@bigboab

You're British yes?

When all your gas, electric and water was privatized did your bills go down?

Yes I'm British.

As to your other comment that should be posted in the funny section. Electricity actually went up 37% last year. Water in Scotland has not been privatised yet.

[devilsadvocate]

Yes I'm British.

As to your other comment that should be posted in the funny section. Electricity actually went up 37% last year. Water in Scotland has not been privatised yet.


Thanks for the quick answer, I asked because I'm one that like to take all things into account, not just the things that support my own personal preferences.

What were the price increases like while the utilities were nationalized. Water would probably be the fairest comparison as the others depend on the cost of fuel.

[bigboab]

Yes I'm British.

As to your other comment that should be posted in the funny section. Electricity actually went up 37% last year. Water in Scotland has not been privatised yet.


Thanks for the quick answer, I asked because I'm one that like to take all things into account, not just the things that support my own personal preferences.

What were the price increases like while the utilities were nationalized. Water would probably be the fairest comparison as the others depend on the cost of fuel.
During nationalisation prices had to have Government approval and were generally in line with cost of living.

[j2k4]

During nationalisation prices...were generally in line with cost of living.

What on earth does that mean, Bob?

[bigboab]

During nationalisation prices...were generally in line with cost of living.

What on earth does that mean, Bob?

It is just a statement sometimes used to indicate the inflation rate.:)

[j2k4]

Well, I suspect we're tripping over a situation where something means one thing in one place, and something totally different in another.

Privatization can be implemented in ways that will insure it doesn't work correctly, it surely can, and most often when rich bastards and their political patrons are involved.

[devilsadvocate]

@bigboab

Sorry to ask again, what I'm trying to find out is if British consumers were better off financially before or after the utilities were privatized. Allowing for inflation are you paying more or less in real terms in the free market than in the nationalized market. Did privatization and the promised competition bring prices down at all or did they just go to whatever price could be squeezed out of a captive audience?

In reality did privatization bring any competition at all or just a private monopoly?
There is a point to this. I'm a free market guy, but I have misgivings as to if the free market offers the best solution when it comes to things for which we have no choice. For example we need water, it's not a choice, so as consumers we don't have have the bargaining power of saying "i'm not paying that, I'd rather go without".


@j2k4

I have an observation about your new red quote.


“It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication AND a government bureaucracy to administer it.” - Thomas SowellWith the debate going on almost (not entirely, because I did note your posts) to a man those that object to any kind of government health program (except don't touch their Medicare) have defended private insurance. One particular argument has been that a public option is an unfair competitor because it wouldn't have to make a profit and would destroy the insurance industry.
I admit I haven't read all of Sowells' opinions, like all ideologues I find the required omissions of sided arguments leave them wanting, but I don't remember him ever saying " “It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication AND a PRIVATE bureaucracy that needs to cover cost and make a profit to administer it.”

I note you have objected to private insurance, or at least I think you have as mosts of your posts never state a clear position.

[clocker]

Privatization can be implemented in ways that will insure it doesn't work correctly, it surely can, and most often when rich bastards and their political patrons are involved.
Which is pretty much every where and every time.

[bigboab]

@bigboab

Sorry to ask again, what I'm trying to find out is if British consumers were better off financially before or after the utilities were privatized. Allowing for inflation are you paying more or less in real terms in the free market than in the nationalized market. Did privatization and the promised competition bring prices down at all or did they just go to whatever price could be squeezed out of a captive audience?

In reality did privatization bring any competition at all or just a private monopoly?
There is a point to this. I'm a free market guy, but I have misgivings as to if the free market offers the best solution when it comes to things for which we have no choice. For example we need water, it's not a choice, so as consumers we don't have have the bargaining power of saying "i'm not paying that, I'd rather go without".


@j2k4

I have an observation about your new red quote.


“It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication AND a government bureaucracy to administer it.” - Thomas SowellWith the debate going on almost (not entirely, because I did note your posts) to a man those that object to any kind of government health program (except don't touch their Medicare) have defended private insurance. One particular argument has been that a public option is an unfair competitor because it wouldn't have to make a profit and would destroy the insurance industry.
I admit I haven't read all of Sowells' opinions, like all ideologues I find the required omissions of sided arguments leave them wanting, but I don't remember him ever saying " “It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication AND a PRIVATE bureaucracy that needs to cover cost and make a profit to administer it.”

I note you have objected to private insurance, or at least I think you have as mosts of your posts never state a clear position.

Yes we were better of financially and a million times better of, service wise.

One of the biggest complaints about nationalised industries was that we were paying for some companies to run at a loss. Utilities should all be nationalised we have enough on our plate without private companise holding a dagger at our throats.

Some of the Private Finance Initiatives in this country have a clause written into their contracts that the Government will pay for upgrading and losses. If that is privatisation I am going to go into business.:(

I think some of the lyrics from Hank Snows' 'The hobo's last ride' sums up privatisation(Capitalism);


I knew that fever had you, Jack

And that doctor just wouldn't come

He was too busy treatin' the wealthy folks

To doctor a worn out bum;