View Full Version : What.cd and Waffles ban Azureus and Deluge
As staff on this tracker, one of our responsibilities is policing the swarms and making sure that everyone plays fair. Another related responsibility is the management of the client whitelist, to ensure that new clients are added as they're deemed safe, and old clients are removed as they're deemed irrelevant/problematic. On Monday the 22nd, we will be performing a significant set of changes to the client whitelist.
Deluge will be removed from the whitelist. After performing an analysis on our swarms, we found that over 4088 downloads, deluge downloaded, on average, 15.4% more data than the size of the torrent. As it is hard enough for users to maintain ratios already, we feel that it is a bad idea to allow deluge to make this situation worse. This change affects 1.3% of our userbase.
More importantly, all versions of azureus/vuze will be removed from the whitelist. This move is being made in conjunction with our friends over at waffles.fm. Vuze users, see below for instructions on how to easily transfer the .torrent files from Vuze to any other client.
Vuze's twilight hour started approaching when they changed their name from Azureus and began to commercialize their already bloated client. Over the years, this caused its market share to shrink considerably in favour of uTorrent, rtorrent, and transmission. Its ease of modification by cheat client developers and habit of constantly reporting very low upload speeds when no one is downloading anything cause unnecessary headaches for the staff. Additionally, the notoriety of the vuze developers for disliking and refusing to cooperate with private tracker staff has only served to worsen the situation.
Vuze's market share has shrunken to 7.1% of our userbase. We are well aware that you 7.1% are still a lot of people - however, we feel that in the long run, you and the rest of the userbase will benefit if you change to a better client.
Our client recommendations are as follows:
Windows: uTorrent 2.x and uTorrent 1.8.x. There is a certain level of controversy surrounding the 'unfairness' of uTorrent 2.0's new protocol (uTP) in the private tracker community. Failing to find evidence of this unfairness ourselves, and seeing significant benefits to the adoption of uTP, we have decided to make uTorrent 2.0 our #1 recommended client - however, be aware that you may not be able to use this client on other trackers.
Mac: uTorrent Mac 0.9.x and Transmission 1.8.x. Both clients are excellent, and transmission has a very friendly and cooperative dev team. To create torrents, you can use the CreateTorrent dashboard widget or the mktorrent command line utility.
Linux: rtorrent 0.8.x, Transmission 1.8.x, KTorrent 3.x, and uTorrent in WINE. rtorrent is WhatMan's very fast personal favourite, and all hardcore linux users should be using it. There also exist numerous frontends for it, such as ntorrent, rutorrent and wTorrent, in case you aren't up to using the console like a man.
If you use deluge or vuze, we understand that this change may be inconvenient for you. We also understand that you may feel a great deal of rage right now, due to the loss of your traditional client which has no doubt treated you with loyalty for many years. However, we implore you to think of the long term benefits for the site and staff, and yourselves - you'll be surprised at what your system can do with the RAM that vuze isn't hogging anymore.
In order to make the transition easier, we have given all users the ability to download a zip file with all of their snatches - click [download] next to the 'Snatched' stat on your profile. This also means that all users now have access to the collector - a feature to download all torrents by an artist, in a collage, or in your bookmarks.
If you use Vuze, please follow these steps to export your client's .torrent files (and thanks to sonicsnare for kindly sharing this info!):
sonicsnare wrote:
Make a new folder, select all torrents, right-click or option-click->advanced->export->torrent
All your .torrent files are duplicated whether you had them or not.
We apologize for the short term inconvenience this will cause, and thank you for your cooperation.
Source: What.cd
Waffles and What.cd, over the course of several months, have discovered that Vuze and Deluge are primarily used by ratio cheaters. We are aware there's a handful of legitimate users, though, thus we are making this announcement. Effective Monday, both clients will be banned from both sites. You will not be banned from Waffles for using either program, but your ability to seed and leech will cease until you choose new torrent software.
For Windows, if for some reason you don't want µTorrent, we do allow the official BitTorrent client, along with the latest versions of BitComet and BitTornado. If you do choose µTorrent, we suggest using version 2.0 or later, to take advantage of uTP, which connects to peers faster, is home router friendly, and doesn't overload your system connections like other torrent clients. The downside to this is that outdated clients get lower priority when connections are made. We do suggest the authors of those clients add support for uTP to their clients.
On the Mac, we suggest Transmission or µTorrent Mac.
Finally, for linux, we suggest Transmission, rtorrent, or ktorrent.
We know that this will upset a few of you, but we must do what is best for the community as a whole.
Source: Waffles
Knowing the ins and outs of cheating myself, I can assure you banning Azureus won't deter cheating at all. I wasn't aware of Deluge misreporting download stats, but I'd assume the What.cd staff have talked to its developers rather than banning the client directly, which leads me to the following point:
Additionally, the notoriety of the vuze developers for disliking and refusing to cooperate with private tracker staff has only served to worsen the situation.
I'm not sure about that. Perhaps the Vuze team hasn't talked too much to What, but looking at the release changelogs and their wiki it is clear they have gone to some extent to make life easier to private tracker admins. One of their developers even registered on my board to discuss the excessive announcing issue when the tracker returns few peers, and fixed it in the stable release that followed.
However, as they have designed a whole tracker frontend (Gazelle) by themselves, it should be clear that the What.cd staff are experienced on the matter, which pleased me when I read this:
There is a certain level of controversy surrounding the 'unfairness' of uTorrent 2.0's new protocol (uTP) in the private tracker community. Failing to find evidence of this unfairness ourselves, and seeing significant benefits to the adoption of uTP, we have decided to make uTorrent 2.0 our #1 recommended client ...
Your thoughts?
ca_aok
02-18-2010, 05:12 PM
My primary thoughts are that the Az/Vuze ban was unwarranted and cheating was an excuse for them to finally do away with the queueing system which they so hate from those clients ;)
The Deluge ban is warranted from the statistics I've seen myself.
Either way it doesn't affect me since I use uTorrent and rtorrent; however, I won't be updating to 2.0 until the dust settles a bit.
Cabalo
02-18-2010, 05:19 PM
My primary thoughts are that the Az/Vuze ban was unwarranted and cheating was an excuse for them to finally do away with the queueing system which they so hate from those clients ;)
:yup:
My primary thoughts are that the Az/Vuze ban was unwarranted and cheating was an excuse for them to finally do away with the queueing system which they so hate from those clients ;)
Personally, I think the What and Waffles staff members are sensible enough not to fully ban a client just because its queue system makes seeding difficult at times. What.cd even has a mini-tutorial on how to "fix" those problems on their forums.
The Deluge ban is warranted from the statistics I've seen myself.
Can you post of PM me those stats? I'd be interested to check them out. :)
although I do not use azureus, I know it has a lot of great features!
brightsid
02-18-2010, 06:50 PM
Staff excuses used to be smarter. This is one is good for idiots. Never though I was going to let my accounts die
Never though I was going to let my accounts die
You're going to let your accounts at What and Waffles die? :blink:
I would certainly disagree with these client bans if I was a heavy Vuze or Deluge user, but I wouldn't deprive myself from the two best music trackers in the world...
brightsid
02-18-2010, 07:04 PM
Unless there is a really easy way to move the +1000 torrent from different trackers and HDDs I'm seeding (some of them are not always active but I start them from time to time),
yes
Tokeman
02-18-2010, 07:09 PM
How about moving the ones that still need to be seeded, rather then moving all of them, then just slowly add things back over time. Don't really see a need to have 1000+ torrents seeding, seems a bit overboard unless your the only seeder...
brightsid
02-18-2010, 07:25 PM
If there was a logical excuse then I would try to change my client. In the announcement there isn't.
Personally I don't believe that you using rtorrent in console will make me feel more man like they are saying
If there was a logical excuse then I would try to change my client. In the announcement there isn't.
The "excuse" they're giving is that a large chunk of the cheating they deal with comes from those two clients, and so they found themselves forced to ban them.
Personally I don't believe that you using rtorrent in console will make feel more man like they are saying
Heh, that's subjective, yes. :P
ca_aok
02-18-2010, 07:35 PM
Personally I don't believe that you using rtorrent in console will make feel more man like they are saying
I think that was meant as a joke bud :whistling
Funkin'
02-18-2010, 07:52 PM
The Deluge ban is warranted from the statistics I've seen myself.
I haven't seen them, and I've been using Deluge for the past couple years.
Kinda sucks, now I'm going to have to open a new client for one single tracker. I don't do a whole lot of downloading from What/Waffles. But this is still going to be an annoyance when I do decide to grab something.
brightsid
02-18-2010, 07:53 PM
My expression was a joke too not worse than the original. Anyway there is an immunity to inactivity rules for power user or above at what so I just keep an inactive account and if I want something I can't find anywhere else I'll use another client
Tv Controls you
02-18-2010, 08:03 PM
This was a very poor decision made by both trackers.
They ban two vastly used clients, just as a new questionable Utorrent 2.0 is released that not all trackers agree on.
Its obvious that a decision like this should have been made after all the issues with utorrent 2.0 were cleared.
Its very clear through the announcement made that waffles has a problem with azureus. I personally think they are offended that azureus doesn't care for them, and refuses to aid them.
Whatever the case may be I think it is their site and they can ban clients as they please. Although this should have been done at a later point in time.
In addition I find what.cd anouncment to be pathetic and insulting to all azureus and deluge users. They post so little reasoning and offer no help to azureus and deluge users.
They could care less if their members leave over the favorite BT client being banned.
ca_aok
02-18-2010, 08:09 PM
They certainly should have waited until uTorrent 2.0 was more universally accepted and proven before forcing people to make the switch. And they definitely should have waited for Transmission to get their acts together, though perhaps version 1.9 fixes some of the issues that have been plaguing the 1.8x series.
Knowing the ins and outs of cheating myself, I can assure you banning Azureus won't deter cheating at all.
Isn't this more about making it easier for the staff/scripts to distinguish cheaters from 'bad' clients, rather than banning the clients a cheater uses? :)
ExtraDry
02-18-2010, 08:45 PM
Utorrent has just got more powerful by this decision troubling times ahead when one client has this much power.
Means they can do what they want and you can do fuck all about it.
Champagne bottles have been open at UT
This doesn't affect me as I've been solely using utorrent as many other users, but it's a shame to see such a feature rich client (which is part of why it's more resource heavy I think) that was easily the #2 choice to be banned from a tracker. Eliminates a lot of choice that the user has in choosing a client of their preference.
And ExtraDry brings up a good point, if this has any sort of a domino effect it could mean bad things ahead for Azureus.
Tv Controls you
02-18-2010, 09:26 PM
This doesn't affect me as I've been solely using utorrent as many other users, but it's a shame to see such a feature rich client (which is part of why it's more resource heavy I think) that was easily the #2 choice to be banned from a tracker. Eliminates a lot of choice that the user has in choosing a client of their preference.
And ExtraDry brings up a good point, if this has any sort of a domino effect it could mean bad things ahead for Azureus.
The majority of Azureus use comes from public trackers, and I think the fact that they wouldn't comply with a large private tracker shows they don't care.
Its so convenient for new users to use Azureus because of their built in search options and easy queuing options. They profit off the searches done on the vuze network because its intergrated right in.
I can see clearly from a buisness aspect why they may not even want to be involved with private trackers, as it doesn't involve any of their own software/vuze network.
BitComet for instance has been blacklisted mostly everywhere but still runs with tons of supporters till this day.....
Vuze has 10x the BT client BitComet will ever have and will always be a leader in windows clients because of its simplicity and integration of all aspects of BT on the client software itself.
I also only use utorrent as I don't need any of the features offered in vuze and I prefer a more light BT client. So I don't really mind the ban, but as the old saying goes "don't put all your eggs in one basket".
Isn't this more about making it easier for the staff/scripts to distinguish cheaters from 'bad' clients, rather than banning the clients a cheater uses? :)
One of the reasons they gave for banning Vuze is the amount of cheating coming from users running a mod of it, when that mod can spoof many other BitTorrent clients.
kukushka
02-18-2010, 10:21 PM
Unless there is a really easy way to move the +1000 torrent from different trackers and HDDs I'm seeding (some of them are not always active but I start them from time to time),
yes
there is actually. in utorrent. collect all .torrents in one folder.
- point the default downloading folder to your first hdd's seeding place
- copy all .torrents to a watch folder
- rehash them
- kill all non-rehashed .torrents
- restore them to another folder
- point dl folder to your second folder with your stuff
- copy all non yet rehashed torrents to watch folder again
etc etc
Cabalo
02-18-2010, 10:46 PM
I moved to Vuze once utorrent "forced" the upgrade from 1.6.1 and it comes they were having callbacks and agreements with the MPAA.
I hate to think I'll have to use another client just for what.cd. It happened the same at PT and I ended up losing my account due to inactivity. :(
If what anon-sbi said is true (and obviously it is), Vuze's cheating mods can spoof any other clients. So, banning its "real" client won't solve a single bit the problem. It is just creating additional problems to the tracker.
It's a pity, as Vuze is hands down the most feature rich client of the torrent scene.
anon is not telling the whole truth.
He is talking about extreme mod but go peak into his site and you'll see them crying about losing shu mod.
He is talking about extreme mod but go peak into his site and you'll see them crying about losing shu mod.
You need an update :lol: In the end it wasn't true that Shu would stop coding new versions, and even if it had been that wouldn't have meant much ;)
Who mentioned coding a new version?
I meant you lost Vuze so you can't use shu mode anymore.
I meant you lost Vuze so you can't use shu mode anymore.
You must be stuck in 2008. Shu Mod is no more. :unsure:
Seems Mihai and his friends don't think like that.
Oh, so you've read SB-I's version of this thread. :lol:
The name stuck even though the mod no longer goes by it. Just like some people call the client "Azureus" even though it was renamed to "Vuze" a long time ago. :P
Anyways, people on sbi are not that cheerful :-)
Good luck though. You'll need it in future.
Anyways, people on sbi are not that cheerful :-)
I can't speak for the rest but I try to be easy-going myself. :P
Good luck though. You'll need it in future.
Oops, I'm so scared :O
dvdasacd
02-18-2010, 11:52 PM
Wow. A blow to the vuze community - which is small, but quite vocal at times, I have found :P. Some people are gonna protest and rage, for sure...
But no matter what other tracker admins think, this is potentially a huge change in the private torrent community, and the fact that the already small vuze sizebase will likely disintegrate into nothing, combined with the issues of vuze pointed out in the what.cd announcement, will probably mean in time vuze won't even be used or accepted at ANY major private tracker - except for maybe random ones here or there. But for any trackers connected to or similar to what.cd in some way - the scale of allow/ban for vuze has certainly been tipped suddenly one way - like in his week's Lost episode...
My first thoughts about it anyway...
Hmm upon second thought, maybe it won't make huge waves - as funkin said, he doesn't use w/w that much (I don't either), so occasionally opening a second client isn't too outrageous. But yeah let's see if there's some sort of domino effect over time...:unsure:
Oh and "This move is being made in conjunction with our friends over at waffles.fm." - Always nice to read a neighbourly remark like that ;)
Night0wl
02-19-2010, 12:46 AM
Oh well.. guess I can just log in once in a while, bookmark things and buy 24h free leech to download with uTorrent and then move the torrents to my music drive directly. After my points are gone, then I have like a 60GB buffer until I hit 0.5 and go on ratio watch.
Because no way in hell will I move my around 500, mainly sorted to folders, torrents over to some client, which will most likely be banned elsewhere.
And yeah I also believe it's uTorrent fanboys annoyed over the brilliant Azureus/Vuze queuing system.
I'm not on waffles but on What this was posted as a method of hopefully helping you export your torrents:
In order to make the transition easier, we have given all users the ability to download a zip file with all of their snatches - click [download] next to the 'Snatched' stat on your profile. This also means that all users now have access to the collector - a feature to download all torrents by an artist, in a collage, or in your bookmarks.
If you use Vuze, please follow these steps to export your client's .torrent files (and thanks to sonicsnare for kindly sharing this info!):
sonicsnare wrote:
Make a new folder, select all torrents, right-click or option-click->advanced->export->torrent
All your .torrent files are duplicated whether you had them or not.
Alternatively, you may click the [Download] link next to your 'Seeding:' statistic in your profile to download all .torrent files you are currently seeding.
We apologize for the short term inconvenience this will cause, and thank you for your cooperation.
Night0wl
02-19-2010, 01:13 AM
That is torrent files.. and in case I'm wrong and it's the actual files, then where would I move +1TB of files?
It's a fucking bad decision made by staff. They gave no good alternatives. They only have alternatives.
They only care about their torrents. How about they consider the vast amount of torrents from other sites, downloaded to other locations. It would take me hours upon hours to get everything seeding again in uTorrent or any other client. I work between 8 and 14 hours a day. No way am I going to spend my weekend serving their uTorrent God-complex.
All you would have to do is set Utorrent's download directory to where vuze downloads to.
Then put the .torrent files you downloaded from the link into Utorrent, and it'll automatically start seeding them. You don't need to move anything.
Funkin'
02-19-2010, 01:25 AM
so occasionally opening a second client isn't too outrageous.
It really isn't. Especially if a person only downloads an album or two here and there. And until it's actually been proven by others that Deluge reports to the tracker more than you have actually downloaded, then I'm going to stick with it. It's the client I'm happiest and most familiar with.
Night0wl
02-19-2010, 01:26 AM
All you would have to do is set Utorrent's download directory to where vuze downloads to.
Then put the .torrent files you downloaded from the link into Utorrent, and it'll automatically start seeding them. You don't need to move anything.
Ok I will spell it out for you. My files are all over the place. Music folders by date of download, music folders by music folder/Starting letter/artist/album, DVD folders, x264 folders, xvid folders, series folders, Hd folders, programs folders, documentary folders, ebook folders, upload folder etc. etc. spread out over three drives + laptop drive.
It would take ages.
Cabalo
02-19-2010, 01:46 AM
I'll be waiting for ca_aok's rutorrent setup guide.
I'm still very angry with this decision. It actually means no one can detect those Vuze mods if used correctly. It's a declaration of lost war.
They may say whatever they want, but this is the real interpretation.
I'm really angry with this decision and for potentially having influence on other site's decisions to ban Vuze too.
What a load of crap.
ca_aok
02-19-2010, 02:04 AM
I'll be waiting for ca_aok's rutorrent setup guide.
I'll be sure to stick it in the BT guides forum here when it's done :)
As for queueing, can someone explain to me why you feel it's necessary? People always seem to talk about this feature as if it's the best thing since sliced bread, whereas in reality I don't see how it's doing anything great for you or your ratio.
Cabalo
02-19-2010, 02:11 AM
I'll be waiting for ca_aok's rutorrent setup guide.
I'll be sure to stick it in the BT guides forum here when it's done :)
I thank you for that. Already tried to install it on ubuntu 9.10 a couple of times and always had some problems. Can't remember now, but I suppose they were related to permissions or sth like that.
ca_aok
02-19-2010, 04:41 AM
I just posted it now. I ran it on debian but *in theory* it should work fine for ubuntu. The only real differences would be the occasional package name and default install directories.
Cut-Copy-Paste
02-19-2010, 08:07 AM
Ok little oftopic but plz help
My frn few hrs ago invited me 2 what. a invite is in my mailbox (have not created acc)
the problem is I m using mainly uT 1.6.1 and Delgu (where uT161 is not allowed :dry:) And NOT WILLING 2 CHANGE or UPGRADE.
So can any one tell me if what allows uT 1.6.1
dvdasacd
02-19-2010, 08:27 AM
I'm really angry with this decision and for potentially having influence on other site's decisions to ban Vuze too.I can definitely understand that. Putting aside whether you agree with them or not, it may well influence other sites to almost blindly (or not so blindly, but just as readily) follow suit.
As for queueing, can someone explain to me why you feel it's necessary? People always seem to talk about this feature as if it's the best thing since sliced bread, whereas in reality I don't see how it's doing anything great for you or your ratio.
Yeah I would love to hear a proponent of queued seeding shed light on it. From what I've heard so far, it DOES sound brilliant and all, in that you can effectively "seed" (or to put it better, "share" or "make available") more torrents at the same time, while keeping your connection unclogged and manageable.
OR am I wrong in that? when you're "seeding" a torrent (in utorrent) but not actually connected to other peers, maybe it doesn't actually "clog up" your connection? If not, I see no use for queued seeding when you can simply run the much lighter utorrent and actively seed the same amount of torrents.
brightsid
02-19-2010, 09:44 AM
Unless there is a really easy way to move the +1000 torrent from different trackers and HDDs I'm seeding (some of them are not always active but I start them from time to time),
yes
there is actually. in utorrent. collect all .torrents in one folder.
- point the default downloading folder to your first hdd's seeding place
- copy all .torrents to a watch folder
- rehash them
- kill all non-rehashed .torrents
- restore them to another folder
- point dl folder to your second folder with your stuff
- copy all non yet rehashed torrents to watch folder again
etc etc
Thanks for the suggestion m8 but I'm talking about 6 HDDs with sharing material all of them organized with the same structure something like
-scene
--movies
---xvid
---x264
---dvd
---bd
--music
---mp3
---flac
--apps
--games
--elearning
--tvseries
---a
----season 1
-----ep1
-----ep2
.
.
.
-nonscene
--movies
---xvid
---x264
---dvd
---bd
--music
---mp3
---flac
--apps
--games
--elearning
--tvseries
---a
----season 1
-----ep1
-----ep2
.
.
.
-temp
I share the same things in DC so it has to be organized. A lot of the nonscene are also renamed in order to catalogue them to my media center. I'm not going to spent a week changing all these just because staff think that 2 GB of memory is something I can't afford
That was another bad joke :whistling
So can any one tell me if what allows uT 1.6.1
That being that last version without any BitTorrent Inc. "influence", they do.
1.6.1 One of the best! except form anon's 1.7.7 remastered edition!
I never modded 1.6.1 or 1.7.7. I started with 1.9, mostly to make it emulate 1.8 after discovering the wonderful uTP and how it magically speeded my downloads up.
Polarbear
02-20-2010, 03:34 AM
Your thoughts?
You wanna know my thoughts?
It's fucking cheaters like YOU who use modified Azureus versions who are responsible for this.
Thousands of honest and good Azureus users like myself have to suffer now, because you and your cheating friends in your shitty forum ruin it for all.
There used to be a time when known cheaters were banned from FST. Nowadays they can happily spam the forum.
You are a plague for the private tracker scene. You're not only a cheater yourself but also teach people how to do it.
I can't use my favourite client on the best music trackers now because cheaters like YOU exploit open source software.
buggyfresh
02-20-2010, 03:38 AM
All you would have to do is set Utorrent's download directory to where vuze downloads to.
Then put the .torrent files you downloaded from the link into uTorrent, and it'll automatically start seeding them. You don't need to move anything.
What he said - not sure what the hoopla is about switching clients and moving directories. Why would you move them? utorrent (at least on windows) has the option to set download location er torrent.. of course if you have 1000 torrents you'll have to do it manually for each but I've done it before for 700+ (when my windows crashed, purging the utorrent .dat files - back up EVERYTHING on windows lol). Of course i have tried utoorent for mac and it sucks - rtorrent is good though if cumbersome with cmd lines. And there is always rutorrent GUI...
Personally i use utorrent 1.8.5 but I'm not upgrading to v2.0 for a while, until all the dust settles. Waffles.fm seem intent on pushing it and what.cd too with this uTP, but i am very wary of any protocol that preferentially connects to one client over another. that in itself will create a one-company market if allowed to happen. No client should be whitelisted that behaves like that imo as it thus puts other clients at a disadvantage even if it is only "for a little while" in a swarm. I don't know but it would be best if this uTP thingamajig could be and is mandated to be turned off on private trackers - use it on demonoid!
What he said - not sure what the hoopla is about switching clients and moving directories.
Well apparently for the few that have their files organized across categorized folders, spanning many hard drives, etc. etc. it could be a giant pain in the ass for them.
I'm not trying to defend what what and waffles did (I disagree with it the client prohibiting as well) anyone who had so many categorized folders or had files scattered across multiple hard drives had it coming. They already spent the huge amount of effort required for such organization/redirecting of download directories in their clients and should've been aware of the risk/rewards of doing such a thing, in my opinion.
You're not only a cheater yourself but also teach people how to do it.
If he in anyway promotes cheating at FST, or if you feel any of his other posts strongly encouraged people to do so, you can report it if you wish.
Although personally as long as he doesn't purposefully promote such things his posts often provide alternative views/insights you don't normally see. And that's what forums are all about, right?
lysine
02-20-2010, 04:05 AM
i am very wary of any protocol that preferentially connects to one client over another. that in itself will create a one-company market if allowed to happen. No client should be whitelisted that behaves like that imo as it thus puts other clients at a disadvantage even if it is only "for a little while" in a swarm.
I still haven't seen anyone come with any proof (real and reproduceable) that shows uTP enabled clients prefering one over the other. all of that hoopla started on bitmetv and they still haven't showed any proof of thier statements. as the news announcement on what.cd states:
Windows: uTorrent 2.x and uTorrent 1.8.x. There is a certain level of controversy surrounding the 'unfairness' of uTorrent 2.0's new protocol (uTP) in the private tracker community. Failing to find evidence of this unfairness ourselves, and seeing significant benefits to the adoption of uTP, we have decided to make uTorrent 2.0 our #1 recommended client - however, be aware that you may not be able to use this client on other trackers.
I don't know but it would be best if this uTP thingamajig could be and is mandated to be turned off on private trackers - use it on demonoid!
since it was first implemented, it's always been possible to disable it. in the advanced options of utorrent, set the bt.transp_disposition to 5. that completely disables all of the uTP stuff in the client.
buggyfresh
02-20-2010, 04:36 AM
I still haven't seen anyone come with any proof (real and reproduceable) that shows uTP enabled clients prefering one over the other. all of that hoopla started on bitmetv and they still haven't showed any proof of thier statements. as the news announcement on what.cd states:
Windows: uTorrent 2.x and uTorrent 1.8.x. There is a certain level of controversy surrounding the 'unfairness' of uTorrent 2.0's new protocol (uTP) in the private tracker community. Failing to find evidence of this unfairness ourselves, and seeing significant benefits to the adoption of uTP, we have decided to make uTorrent 2.0 our #1 recommended client - however, be aware that you may not be able to use this client on other trackers.
I don't know but it would be best if this uTP thingamajig could be and is mandated to be turned off on private trackers - use it on demonoid!
since it was first implemented, it's always been possible to disable it. in the advanced options of utorrent, set the bt.transp_disposition to 5. that completely disables all of the uTP stuff in the client.
yea well i'm going on what has been said at various sites as are most ppl. And i think if the first statement is correct then like msot private trackers require DHT to be turned off, the same should be implemented for uTP IF it does behave in that manner. I use DHT when going public hunting and it would be the same for that new protocol.
brightsid
02-20-2010, 08:47 AM
Well apparently for the few that have their files organized across categorized folders, spanning many hard drives, etc. etc. it could be a giant pain in the ass for them.
I'm not trying to defend what what and waffles did (I disagree with it the client prohibiting as well) anyone who had so many categorized folders or had files scattered across multiple hard drives had it coming. They already spent the huge amount of effort required for such organization/redirecting of download directories in their clients and should've been aware of the risk/rewards of doing such a thing, in my opinion.
I don't get it am I doing something wrong categorizing my shares in different folders and drives and seeding them for ever? And we are not talking about 0day stuff but for music, movies collection. And it's really easy to do it with a good client like vuze is. I guess it's not l33t enough for them and encourage their user to have 1 drive and 1 dir for all the sharing files. Preferably in a seedbox. They are promoting the use of a client that no other site think is safe with many reported connection problems.
A stat about the number of files not seeded anymore in the trackers a month after their decision would be interesting. If the other trackers don't follow
You wanna know my thoughts?
It's fucking cheaters like YOU who use modified Azureus versions who are responsible for this.
Thousands of honest and good Azureus users like myself have to suffer now, because you and your cheating friends in your shitty forum ruin it for all.
There used to be a time when known cheaters were banned from FST. Nowadays they can happily spam the forum.
You are a plague for the private tracker scene. You're not only a cheater yourself but also teach people how to do it.
I can't use my favourite client on the best music trackers now because cheaters like YOU exploit open source software.
well said, though i think your being a little too nice
bittorrent relies on sharing, without it, there would be no bittorrent, period. retards like above are the scum that stopped me posting here over the past year or 2. FST has a bad name because of its policy to allow traders, but even worse now, cheaters.
shit sticks, and it stinks.
Morpheus
02-20-2010, 02:21 PM
I'm facing some cognitive dissonance. Someone help me resolve it.
[W]e found that over 4088 downloads, deluge downloaded, on average, 15.4% more data than the size of the torrent.
Deluge are primarily used by ratio cheaters
soulreaper
02-20-2010, 02:27 PM
You wanna know my thoughts?
It's fucking cheaters like YOU who use modified Azureus versions who are responsible for this.
Thousands of honest and good Azureus users like myself have to suffer now, because you and your cheating friends in your shitty forum ruin it for all.
There used to be a time when known cheaters were banned from FST. Nowadays they can happily spam the forum.
You are a plague for the private tracker scene. You're not only a cheater yourself but also teach people how to do it.
I can't use my favourite client on the best music trackers now because cheaters like YOU exploit open source software.well said, though i think your being a little too nice
bittorrent relies on sharing, without it, there would be no bittorrent, period. retards like above are the scum that stopped me posting here over the past year or 2. FST has a bad name because of its policy to allow traders, but even worse now, cheaters.
shit sticks, and it stinks.
The way I see it , anon has been nothing short of resourceful(technically) and also helped a lot of members here. I don't recall seeing any posts of his which encouraged fsters to cheat. As far as I'm concerned he can do what he likes in his private/professional life as long as it causes no harm to fsters. Heck I don't even know the guy, just judging from his posts.
More power to you anon,keep posting mate.:)
I love the way FST doesn't judge its members by their reputation on a particular torrent site or another forum. I feel privileged and proud to be a part of FST because of the unbiased treatment meted out to members. People would never express their views openly without fear if it wasn't for the free spirited nature of FST.
IdolEyes787
02-20-2010, 03:05 PM
You wanna know my thoughts?
It's fucking cheaters like YOU who use modified Azureus versions who are responsible for this.
Thousands of honest and good Azureus users like myself have to suffer now, because you and your cheating friends in your shitty forum ruin it for all.
There used to be a time when known cheaters were banned from FST. Nowadays they can happily spam the forum.
You are a plague for the private tracker scene. You're not only a cheater yourself but also teach people how to do it.
I can't use my favourite client on the best music trackers now because cheaters like YOU exploit open source software.well said, though i think your being a little too nice
bittorrent relies on sharing, without it, there would be no bittorrent, period. retards like above are the scum that stopped me posting here over the past year or 2. FST has a bad name because of its policy to allow traders, but even worse now, cheaters.
shit sticks, and it stinks.
Maybe it's just the liberal in me but I have personally always felt that the best way to solve problems and resolve our differences is through dialogue .
well said, though i think your being a little too nice
bittorrent relies on sharing, without it, there would be no bittorrent, period. retards like above are the scum that stopped me posting here over the past year or 2. FST has a bad name because of its policy to allow traders, but even worse now, cheaters.
shit sticks, and it stinks.
The way I see it , anon has been nothing short of resourceful(technically) and also helped a lot of members here. I don't recall seeing any posts of his which encouraged fsters to cheat. As far as I'm concerned he can do what he likes in his private/professional life as long as it causes no harm to fsters. Heck I don't even know the guy, just judging from his posts.
More power to you anon,keep posting mate.:)
I love the way FST doesn't judge its members by their reputation on a particular torrent site or another forum. I feel privileged and proud to be a part of FST because of the unbiased treatment meted out to members. People would never express their views openly without fear if it wasn't for the free spirited nature of FST.
^^What he said .
My first knee-jerk reaction when anon-sbi started posting here was an immediate ban but seeing as little except making myopic people such as yourself feel better what purpose does that really serve?
A statement? I honestly I'd much rather make the statement that people are allowed a chance to give an opinion here and leave it up to the intelligence ( or lack thereof) of our members to determine for themselves what to make of that opinion.
As for the analogy here's another .Non-acceptable behavior like fungi require the dark to grow . Expose either to the light of day and they tend to wither.
Other than that all I will say is that anon knows what is and isn't permissible here and up to this point has lived up to his word and never promoted either his personal philosophy or his site at FST.
Now if that is not good enough for you you are welcome to again scurry off .
In the words of Eldridge Cleaver " If you are not part of the solution......."
filenetworks
02-20-2010, 03:41 PM
BitMeTV's response:
UPDATE
On another relevant note: We will NOT be banning Azureus/Vuze as some other sites have just done. :)
Quarterquack
02-20-2010, 04:22 PM
There is a certain level of controversy surrounding the 'unfairness' of uTorrent 2.0's new protocol (uTP) in the private tracker community. Failing to find evidence of this unfairness ourselves, and seeing significant benefits to the adoption of uTP, we have decided to make uTorrent 2.0 our #1 recommended client ...
Your thoughts?
uTorrent devs themselves have acknowledged there are problems associated with uTP and promised that they will be addressed in 2.0.1; this announcement was run by a uTorrent dev himself on a couple of private trackers I'm on.
I haven't seen them, and I've been using Deluge for the past couple years.
Depends on the size of torrents you are downloading. Deluge tends to misrepresent numbers when they get too large, in order to compensate for the fact that its peering and packet pick-ups is absolutely flawed. On large torrents the number misrepresentation can be as much as 20% of the torrent size, hardly ignorable. A month back a bug was found, and the devs were alerted and they said they would fix it, but I am yet to see it happen.
_______________________
As for the whole Anon-SBI being a cheater ordeal, I still think it's a problem that plagues society. This is a lot like Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged' where people are so concerned with usurping their superiors that they forget about people trying to usurp them. The same happens in the BT world. People are so concerned about cheating the economical system, that they forget about the people trying to cheat them. No matter what system is made, it will be cheated, and there will be more cheaters cheating the cheaters. The whole thing just goes on and on to invite more cheaters to the hive. Do people actually think there's no holes/problems with uTorrent? On the contrary. If someone wants to really cheat using uTorrent, I'm sure they will do it eventually.
EDIT: Being a uTorrent user myself, I'm not affected by most decisions, and yet I see the fact that uTorrent is gaining market share, at the least, unnerving. People are forgetting that it remains closed source, which means that when the time comes, corporate schemes can and will come into the picture in the way with which we interact with torrents, either through DRM or through other annoying features that none of us will be able to complain about, since at this rate, we're bringing it on ourselves.
It's fucking cheaters like YOU who use modified Azureus versions who are responsible for this.
I'm on a shaped line so I rarely, if almost never, use the Vuze mod nowadays. There are lots of other ways to do the same, anyway. Hell, Notepad, Telnet and a calculator are enough.
Thousands of honest and good Azureus users like myself have to suffer now, because you and your cheating friends in your shitty forum ruin it for all.
Once again, the Vuze mod can spoof other clients. This move causes us pretty much no problems, while the "real" Vuze users are affected. Perhaps you should rethink who's really preventing you from using your favorite client.
uTorrent devs themselves have acknowledged there are problems associated with uTP and promised that they will be addressed in 2.0.1; this announcement was run by a uTorrent dev himself on a couple of private trackers I'm on.
Thank you very much for this piece of info. Could you quote the announcement here?
Do people actually think there's no holes/problems with uTorrent? On the contrary. If someone wants to really cheat using uTorrent, I'm sure they will do it eventually.
uTorrent is quite moddeable despite being closed-source, but the possibilities aren't endless because of that same fact. It's possible for a watchful tracker admin to analyze the way the mods send announces and code a script that can detect them - as a matter of fact, several ones have done so already.
Other clients or even standalone tools that don't connect to the peers but pose as uTorrent as a different deal.
Quarterquack
02-20-2010, 06:41 PM
It works well for most people, but there are definitely cases where uTP performs poorly. We've already done some initial tweaks in the first 2.0.1 beta, but there's much more to do. It should perform better than 2.0 as-is, though, and have less overhead than 2.0 too.
:)
Thanks once again. Official words from a uTorrent developer mean a lot more to me than random proofless accusations of the client favoring itself. :)
cocegas
02-20-2010, 07:02 PM
For me utorrent is enough... looking topics like this looks like I am the only who is looking to download something, not worring about client or any conspiratory theory envolved as long i get good speed.
cap87
02-20-2010, 07:06 PM
The way i see it, there's a lot of hypocrisy in here. (regarding the whole anon-sbi story)
I mean, it's not even a second chance. You all know anon is involved in cheating activities in one way or another at the moment. Besides, if you gave him a "second chance", why not give a "second chance" to all the other cheaters? It would be fair that way... right? :huh:
And no, nice and intelligent posts do not define someone. Actions do.
I mean, it's not even a second chance. You all know anon is involved in cheating activities in one way or another at the moment. Besides, if you gave him a "second chance", why not give a "second chance" to all the other cheaters? It would be fair that way... right? :huh:
And no, nice and intelligent posts do not define someone. Actions do.
Who talked about a second chance here? It's not like FST is a tracker and I've been banned for cheating it in the past...
cocegas
02-20-2010, 07:18 PM
Ignorance is bliss? :P
its not ignorance, is that for many of here just fit the meme: "internet serious business".
Ppl takes this too serious, for me is just a way to get files. Before was FTP, emule, kazaa. In the future will be another one.
But no, today private tracker become money, every where is donate, double up, etc. Tracker with 3000 user with closed registrations... for what? For me private tracker is a ways to get higher speedy and fast content, but this is being twisted.
cap87
02-20-2010, 07:19 PM
I've put second chance between " for a reason.
The thing is, cheaters usually get banned around here. I'm just curious why some of them deserve special treatment.
Not that i care much anyways.
I've put second chance between " for a reason.
I guess I only read the sentence where you didn't. :unsure:
The thing is, cheaters usually get banned around here.
Looking at the dunce corner it'd appear most are DPed instead. As a matter of fact Cabalo disabled my privileges before I even got them, shortly after I made my first post. :lol:
cap87
02-20-2010, 07:30 PM
FST policies are worse that i thought then :pinch:
The_Martinator
02-20-2010, 09:53 PM
As far as opinions go, I have no problem with Anon being here (the more opinions the better and I have seen him help people). I remember that he used to be DPed and if it were up to me he still would be.
Why? He is a cheater and he does help other people cheat (not directly, but still). The way things are atm, he really doesn't need the cheating forum, he can handle all the questions through PMs here. I'm not saying that he does, but he could. I'm sure he's a nice guy IRL, but as far as BT goes I wouldn't trust him.
Just my 2 cents.
The way things are atm, he really doesn't need the cheating forum, he can handle all the questions through PMs here.
Helping FST users to cheat through PM? You must be wanting to be made fun of. :happy:
If someone asked me for specific cheating tips here, I'd report them. As you said, this isn't the cheating forum.
The_Martinator
02-20-2010, 10:19 PM
The way things are atm, he really doesn't need the cheating forum, he can handle all the questions through PMs here.
Helping FST users to cheat through PM? You must be wanting to be made fun of. :happy:
If someone asked me for specific cheating tips here, I'd report them. As you said, this isn't the cheating forum.
Oh, OK, I'll just take your word for it... :whistling
And I have to lol at the fact that you have a split internet personality; the anon at the cheating forum and the ultra moral one here. I guess everything is possible online.
And don't worry about making fun of me, I can take. Just ask your Idols, to them it's a habit. :lol:
Sorry for the delay, my proxy often pukes when submitting forms.
And I have to lol at the fact that you have a split internet personality; the anon at the cheating forum and the ultra moral one here. I guess everything is possible online.
How can you compare my would-be double personalities when you don't even know "the anon at the cheating forum"? One would think you can't compare things when you don't know one of them, but I guess everything is indeed possible online.
Just in case you care, I have written about legit seeding and given tips a lot of times there, too. Even once wrote a long post on how one of our users, who wanted to actually seed and even upload his own material to a specific tracker, could do so, instead of just cheating.Needless to say, due to the very nature of my forum, you won't find me speaking about why I cheat or "the spirit of P2P" as much as I do here, of course. Only when the topic springs up. Which obviously isn't as often.
And don't worry about making fun of me, I can take. Just ask your Idols, to them it's a habit. :lol:The fun has already begun - I'm laughing at how fast you're to make assumptions. :lol: Oh, and that was a nice word game :)
Cabalo
02-20-2010, 10:43 PM
And I have to lol at the fact that you have a split internet personality; the anon at the cheating forum and the ultra moral one here. I guess everything is possible online.
And don't worry about making fun of me, I can take. Just ask your Idols, to them it's a habit. :lol:
You seem to know really well how things are at his forum :whistling
How are the internet connections in slovenia?
IdolEyes787
02-20-2010, 10:59 PM
FST policies are worse that i thought then :pinch:
Did you even bother to read what I said or is it you are just so certain of everything that what other people have to say doesn't matter?
How about this show me one way that simply allowing anon to post has a negative effect on anyone and you can have your way and I will ban him.
kukushka
02-20-2010, 11:04 PM
oh, hijacked thread, nice :)
on the new topic i could say that cheaters themselves aren't the only guys to blame in what they're doing. the whole ratio system is screwed so it encourage cheating, seedbox buffering with hit'n'running and other strange things... but first of all, it is the way in which the announce between client and tracker works that make relatively comfort space for all this cheating business. how much real nasty cheating can be done when there is one seeder and one leecher except for fake announcing of the transfer to rise stats?... in perfect world imo, client has to report to server transferred amount for every peer, of course it would meant more cpu load for the tracker but i'm sure there could be some workarounds to make this work okay...
but first of all, it is the way in which the announce between client and tracker works that make relatively comfort space for all this cheating business. how much real nasty cheating can be done when there is one seeder and one leecher except for fake announcing of the transfer to rise stats?...
You don't need experience to avoid cheating on that kind of torrents, just common sense.
in perfect world imo, client has to report to server transferred amount for every peer, of course it would meant more cpu load for the tracker but i'm sure there could be some workarounds to make this work okay...
Not to mention the higher bandwidth usage. But what you're talking about is a subset of the "if no one is downloading, you can't be uploading" argument, something which is actually true but has yet to be taken to the form of anti-cheating scripts in a 100% effective way, which is impossible.
Anyway, I think that if you were a tracker admin and the amount of cheating on your site grew to such proportions, you should lower the river (i.e. check what's the real reason for it, and how you can fix that) instead of raising the bridge (coding every time tighter scripts).
Quarterquack
02-20-2010, 11:17 PM
How about this show me one way that simply allowing anon to post has a negative effect on anyone and you can have your way and I will ban him.
His custom title tempts users to go exploring. :dry:
In all seriousness, though, do not ban him. From what I've seen of him on here (wouldn't know anything about his personality down at SBI) he is a decent fellow. Wouldn't make much sense to ban a person based on his actions at another forum, when all he tries to share here is thoughts.
His custom title tempts users to go exploring. :dry:
Custom title or not, people that want to cheat can simply google their way to that info, as with pretty much anything else.
Tv Controls you
02-20-2010, 11:20 PM
How about this show me one way that simply allowing anon to post has a negative effect on anyone and you can have your way and I will ban him.
His custom title tempts users to go exploring. :dry:
In all seriousness, though, do not ban him. From what I've seen of him on here (wouldn't know anything about his personality down at SBI) he is a decent fellow. Wouldn't make much sense to ban a person based on his actions at another forum, when all he tries to share here is thoughts.
He is one of the most knowledgeable and active members on this board in the past month.
Also his knowledge in Bt client modification and coding that is used by BT clients is really helpful when topics such as this one come up.
Even the thought of banning such a golden member is absurd.
ca_aok
02-21-2010, 02:06 AM
The newest version of Deluge will be whitelisted, at least @ What.
-Global- [A9] Update regarding Deluge, effective monday, All versions of Deluge < 1.2.1 will be banned, but users will have the option to use the newly released version which fixes the overdownloading issue.
IdolEyes787
02-21-2010, 02:11 AM
His custom title tempts users to go exploring. :dry:
The ironic thing is I didn't have any clue that there was a cheating forum associated with the initials sbi until polarbear , the very person so stridently denouncing anon, made me aware of it in another thread.
So maybe I should ban polarbear?:idunno:
TP635
02-21-2010, 02:17 AM
PtP banned Azureus too.
Quarterquack
02-21-2010, 02:33 AM
His custom title tempts users to go exploring. :dry:
The ironic thing is I didn't have any clue that there was a cheating forum associated with the initials sbi until polarbear , the very person so stridently denouncing anon, made me aware of it in another thread.
So maybe I should ban polarbear?:idunno:
Haha, I didn't know until Anon himself said something along the lines of "Google my name, however it's not the kind of forum you'd want to be caught browsing". Didn't know that his initials meant anything, either.
You don't need experience to avoid cheating on that kind of torrents, just common sense.
in perfect world imo, client has to report to server transferred amount for every peer, of course it would meant more cpu load for the tracker but i'm sure there could be some workarounds to make this work okay...
Not to mention the higher bandwidth usage. But what you're talking about is a subset of the "if no one is downloading, you can't be uploading" argument, something which is actually true but has yet to be taken to the form of anti-cheating scripts in a 100% effective way, which is impossible.
Anyway, I think that if you were a tracker admin and the amount of cheating on your site grew to such proportions, you should lower the river (i.e. check what's the real reason for it, and how you can fix that) instead of raising the bridge (coding every time tighter scripts).
well not quite true
thats the point in what.cd banning the old version of deluge and azureus.
their cheat scripts match the downloaded amounts with uploaded amounts, and find discrepancies.
so if somebody cheats and reports upload that isn't evenly reported as download within the swarm, it will trigger alerts and the swarm will be investigated.
this is actually already done fairly efficiently on what, but deluges habit of over downloading, and azureus habit of reporting very low upload speeds when not seeding has been creating a large amount of false positives within this type of cheat detection.
there will always be factors that cause upload/download amounts to never match perfect, like a client crash before an announce, but thats where what.cd's scripts become so impressive. they detect uploading when the torrent file hasn't been snatched. they detect repetative incomplete downloads when the torrent file has been snatched. they also detect repetative missed announcements(stops, scrapes, client exits, torrent completed, etc.).
the banning of azureus isn't simply because its ease of cheat mods. dont you think the what staff know it has spoof mods that let it mascaraed as another client. the ban is more because of the low, false upload amounts being reported to the tracker, causing false positives in the cheat scripts.
it'll be interesting to see what methods you come up with next. personally i find it much easier to do what the majority of fair users do and do nothing, just leave my client open and let it seed. instead of spending hours upon hours trying to work my way round anti-cheat scripts, and creating new accounts after being banned.
ExtraDry
02-21-2010, 05:30 AM
anon-sbi isn't that bad of a guy shows peeps respect here seems to love these to help others out,
however he needs to one day realize when using cheats mods the only ones your hurting are the fellow members of that site,as your not seeding back to them.
If everyone did it guess what, no one would get any files or they get them very slowly.
Polarbear
02-21-2010, 06:06 AM
@John: The slow upload speeds when nobody's leeching is caused by a cheating mod as well.
That's why I'm so pissed. An unmodified version of Azureus works perfectly fine. It's the cheaters who ruin it for the rest.
indeed there is cheat mods that do this, the client itself also does though, which is probably the reasoning behind the cheat mods using such an unusual tactic to cheat.
without cheaters though, its certain that azureus would still be whitelisted. im massively in favour of open sourced software, its a shame that such software is so abused in this situation.
Polarbear
02-21-2010, 07:20 AM
without cheaters though, its certain that azureus would still be whitelisted. im massively in favour of open sourced software, its a shame that such software is so abused in this situation.
I shake your hand. :yup:
The_Martinator
02-21-2010, 09:12 AM
Sorry for the delay, my proxy often pukes when submitting forms.
How can you compare my would-be double personalities when you don't even know "the anon at the cheating forum"? One would think you can't compare things when you don't know one of them, but I guess everything is indeed possible online.
Just in case you care, I have written about legit seeding and given tips a lot of times there, too. Even once wrote a long post on how one of our users, who wanted to actually seed and even upload his own material to a specific tracker, could do so, instead of just cheating.Needless to say, due to the very nature of my forum, you won't find me speaking about why I cheat or "the spirit of P2P" as much as I do here, of course. Only when the topic springs up. Which obviously isn't as often.
Uhm, I didn't know that, that's true. But honestly if you're such a good guy, then why cheat in the first place? I'm sure that if you were just honest from the start (and maybe whine a little about your slow connection :lol:), you would have been helped so much by now that you would not even need to think about cheating any time soon.
I hate hypocrisy. Speaking of the true spirit of filesharing at one point and then ignoring it when it benefits you (no matter in how hard of a spot you are) is just that.
PS: I don't cheat, never have and I did have big problems at the very start with keeping a 1:1 ratio at my first tracker, RevoTT (mind you, no bonus system there). Cheating has very little to do with having a slow connection. If that were true, no Romanian would cheat.
PPS: The connections are not as good as in Portugal, Hugo. :naughty:
cinephilia
02-21-2010, 09:40 AM
well said, though i think your being a little too nice
bittorrent relies on sharing, without it, there would be no bittorrent, period. retards like above are the scum that stopped me posting here over the past year or 2. FST has a bad name because of its policy to allow traders, but even worse now, cheaters.
shit sticks, and it stinks.
The way I see it , anon has been nothing short of resourceful(technically) and also helped a lot of members here. I don't recall seeing any posts of his which encouraged fsters to cheat. As far as I'm concerned he can do what he likes in his private/professional life as long as it causes no harm to fsters. Heck I don't even know the guy, just judging from his posts.
More power to you anon,keep posting mate.:)
I love the way FST doesn't judge its members by their reputation on a particular torrent site or another forum. I feel privileged and proud to be a part of FST because of the unbiased treatment meted out to members. People would never express their views openly without fear if it wasn't for the free spirited nature of FST.
agreed.
you can't reduce anon-sbi to a insignificant cheater, his vision of torrenting and his attitude toward sharing have nothing to do with his 'legitimacy' of being a member here, not to mention that he has been very helpful and courteous with every members so far.
our protectors of the right morals should remember that fst is not a private tracker nor the BT police.
For me utorrent is enough... looking topics like this looks like I am the only who is looking to download something, not worring about client or any conspiratory theory envolved as long i get good speed.
same here.
i don't care about the client as long as i get my stuff.
Funkin'
02-21-2010, 10:52 AM
The newest version of Deluge will be whitelisted, at least @ What.
-Global- [A9] Update regarding Deluge, effective monday, All versions of Deluge < 1.2.1 will be banned, but users will have the option to use the newly released version which fixes the overdownloading issue.
This is good news. But honestly, I'm pretty happy with Transmission right now(rtorrent was a no go). I forgot how much I liked this tiny client. I switched to Deluge because of the superior interface. But now I'm kind of liking the minimalistic approach that Transmission goes for. The options I used on Deluge are available on Transmission. And like I said...it is extremely lightweight. Might just stick with it...
But it's good to know that if I want to switch back I'll be able to. The Deluge devs are definitely a great team.
Depends on the size of torrents you are downloading. Deluge tends to misrepresent numbers when they get too large, in order to compensate for the fact that its peering and packet pick-ups is absolutely flawed. On large torrents the number misrepresentation can be as much as 20% of the torrent size, hardly ignorable. A month back a bug was found, and the devs were alerted and they said they would fix it, but I am yet to see it happen.
I missed this. Thanks for the explanation ringhunter, you're the first person to give me. Probably 99% of my downloads through bittorrent is music. So I rarely find a file that's over 1GB in size. Most are anywhere from 200MB to 400MB. So maybe this is why I haven't seen any over downloading.
pinuk
02-21-2010, 05:27 PM
This is a shame and I hope that the banning of Vuze does not become commonplace. I've been using it for years and would seriously consider moving trackers if I was forced to use Utorrent. Not that I have anything against it in particular but I happen to be very happy with the Vuze client. Seems i'm in the minority here!
well not quite true
thats the point in what.cd banning the old version of deluge and azureus.
their cheat scripts match the downloaded amounts with uploaded amounts, and find discrepancies.
"If no one is downloading you can't be uploading" is a completely true statement, but in practice you can't take it to a 100% working script. There are things passing under the radar, and there will always be.
so if somebody cheats and reports upload that isn't evenly reported as download within the swarm, it will trigger alerts and the swarm will be investigated.
You know there's a problem with the alerts when people can do things like faking 10MB/s on torrents with next to no activity and get away with it... :ermm:
there will always be factors that cause upload/download amounts to never match perfect, like a client crash before an announce, but thats where what.cd's scripts become so impressive. ...
Agreed. What.cd is what we call an improvement star. I've been been using it since the days you could cheat 50GB in 1 minute and not even get noticed. Then that stopped working. And as time passed, so did other stuff. Now their anti-cheat detection is great, that's true. But not perfect, no site's is.
the banning of azureus isn't simply because its ease of cheat mods. dont you think the what staff know it has spoof mods that let it mascaraed as another client. the ban is more because of the low, false upload amounts being reported to the tracker, causing false positives in the cheat scripts.
So the official Azureus reports very slow upload speeds when the user isn't uploading anything? OK, that's a new one. Is there any proof? :unsure:
it'll be interesting to see what methods you come up with next.
We'll see what the future holds for us. :P
Uhm, I didn't know that, that's true. But honestly if you're such a good guy, then why cheat in the first place?
I feel like I'm talking to a wall :frusty:
I hate hypocrisy. Speaking of the true spirit of filesharing at one point and then ignoring it when it benefits you (no matter in how hard of a spot you are) is just that.
So doing exactly the same you do with the difference of faking the stats that get reported to the tracker (which when BitTorrent was created had absolutely no use other than purely statistical purposes, by the way) when I risk getting disabled for having a bad ratio is hypocrisy... mmm... yeah, well, maybe.
The_Martinator
02-21-2010, 05:45 PM
So doing exactly the same you do with the difference of faking the stats that get reported to the tracker (which when BitTorrent was created had absolutely no use other than purely statistical purposes, by the way) when I risk getting disabled for having a bad ratio is hypocrisy... mmm... yeah, well, maybe.
Of course you do exaclty the same as me. You prolly have hundreds of torrents seeding in your client atm and have been seeding them for months (not that I have hundreds seeding, but I am seeding over a 100 of them, some for more than half a year).
You know what I get my rush from as far as BT goes? Seeding something for so long that I'm the only seeder and then when someone decides to DL it, giving them all my speed (which would prolly still be shitty in your book since you hate iTS for their speeds amongst other things), but some people do appreciate that. Not that I want anything in return, but to me that's the spirit of filesharing.
I'm sure you find me pathetic, though. :01:
I'm sure you find me pathetic, though. :01:
I don't. Being the sole seeder for a torrent and taking responsability it's kept-alive feels kind of nice, actually.
Don't forget to enable super-seeding until someone else snatches a full copy. :happy:
kukushka
02-21-2010, 06:32 PM
oh, another thing about torrent clients and cheating. utorrent can easily make people cheat with dual announcing... when adding manually, it asks user if he wants to add a new tracker and blabla, but when torrent is added automatically from the watch folder - he could care less. i already caught myself once with dual reporting to what/waffles on active torrent, and when seeding about thousand of torrents at each of them, i found about .5% of torrents to be the same at both sites.... so utorrent just like other clients banned at those sites can help with submitting wrong stats
oh, another thing about torrent clients and cheating. utorrent can easily make people cheat with dual announcing...
The torrent's info_hash must be the same for that to happen. It isn't the best method... most of the time the "cheaters" caught using that are people that like in your case, added multiple private tracker URLs to the same torrent (manually or otherwise), and got banned on one of them for reporting upload/download activity it otherwise wasn't tracking.
kukushka
02-21-2010, 09:01 PM
oh, another thing about torrent clients and cheating. utorrent can easily make people cheat with dual announcing...
The torrent's info_hash must be the same for that to happen. It isn't the best method... most of the time the "cheaters" caught using that are people that like in your case, added multiple private tracker URLs to the same torrent (manually or otherwise), and got banned on one of them for reporting upload/download activity it otherwise wasn't tracking.
you're looking from different angle, i'm speaking about non-intentional violations of stats reporting, just like those +15/20% in deluge. one more time - when automatically adding .torrents if the same hash is found, utorrent just quietly add the next announce string to the torrent without giving any notice to user and placing him in potentially dangerous situation. rtorrent as example just says to gtfo
one more time - when automatically adding .torrents if the same hash is found, utorrent just quietly add the next announce string to the torrent without giving any notice to user and placing him in potentially dangerous situation.
Yes, we can agree on that.
Just to point out anon isn't 'just' a cheater. He codes cheating clients and mods/runs a cheating board. Comparing anon to the average cheater is like comparing The coders and sysops of a tracker with its members.
veritas
02-23-2010, 04:46 AM
yay deluge is unbanned at What! :)
The_Martinator
02-23-2010, 04:03 PM
Just to point out anon isn't 'just' a cheater. He codes cheating clients and mods/runs a cheating board. Comparing anon to the average cheater is like comparing The coders and sysops of a tracker with its members.
You're saying he's worse tha just a cheater or that he's better than most cheaters?
Just so I understand, I don't want to make any conclusions (but I do all the time :P).
Just to point out anon isn't 'just' a cheater. He codes cheating clients and mods/runs a cheating board. Comparing anon to the average cheater is like comparing The coders and sysops of a tracker with its members.
Yay, you revived my thread :hooray:
I'm saying he (and his kind) are a blight on the private tracker community.
Quarterquack
02-23-2010, 07:58 PM
I'm saying he (and his kind) are a blight on the private tracker community.
Would you rather some internal coder for internal private communities making all the cheats?
Sure, anon might be a cheater, but you have to have some respect for him not denying it, and constantly standing up for what he believes in.
Sorry if this sounds a bit weird, but cheaters usually want to reap the advantages of cheating, while also expecting the respect that comes with being an honored member. They make the decision to cheat, yet are unable to stick with their choices, so much that they deny it, and hope that they can still be looked upon as a decent, respectable member.
In that regard, Anon is sane. He fully understands what he's doing and is not afraid of admitting it, he understands that whatever the choice he makes, he cannot pick and choose the advantages/disadvantages that come with it.
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