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Spindulik
10-29-2003, 06:30 AM
Perhaps the times have changed since I was in second grade, reading "Spot and Jane" books, but I am a bit concerned on the material that is being taught to my daughter, who is currently in second grade.


For example, look at the picture below
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3nvj6/skool.jpg

Look at the numbers nine and four on the left. This what I was taught in school. The ones on the right (in the red box) is what is being taught in school these days. I am not saying that these numbers are wrong, but they do not fit in, with the rest of the alpha-numeric symbols that they are teaching in school.

The NINE and the FOUR have evloved in 30 years to a "digital" form. I can see why people use those numbers, because they see them on digital watches, calculators, cellphones, etc...

Now look at the J and the I on the left, in the picture. They have no serifs (the little fancy hat). People assume that the letter "J" exclusively uses the serif. This is false, unless you use the serif on ALL of the letters in the alphabet. As a matter of fact, the font on this web page is wrong. The I's and the J's have serifs, but the rest of the lettering here is sanserif. Very inconsistant.

Reputable publications and businesses will not display such inconsistancy. (Except for Pennsylvania license plates)


Here's another...
Today, my daughter had a math problem. But personally, I believe that it is not correct. Here is exactly what the homework displayed.

John read 5 more books than Cindi.
Cindi read 13 books.
How many books did John read? ___________

If John read 10 books, how many books did Cindi read? _________


We all know that the answer to the first part is 18 books. But the second question is tricky. If you look at the question, it is not clear enough to find the answer they want. My logical answer is 13. Why? Well it clearly says that Cindi read 13 books. You cannot dispute that. I can't help that John may have read 10 books instead. What do you think that the answer should be.

Here's another...
My daughter has to read two books for homework. She reads them to family members to improve her skills. I thought maybe she was reading the book wrong, but she wasn't. Whatever book this was, was not published with correct grammar. I am not an expert but here is an example...

John sat down in the chair. And his mother baked cookies.

Since when is it acceptable to use a the word And to start a sentence? The word "and' is a conjunction.

Here's another example...

The suit needs cleaned.

Wrong! The suit need to be cleaned.

I know that they are not teaching the kid grammar yet, but I don't think it is a good idea to have them read books that cannot use proper grammar.
------------------------

I may sound a bit too picky on these things, but I believe that it is very important to stress the little things such as this, in hopes that the next generation of people can communicate with eacher with clarity and minimal errors. Not like the K-Lite lounge where everyone uses the word noone, when they mean "no one", or your instead of you're.
Keikan
10-29-2003, 06:42 AM
You wanna know what they should learn?

More fractions :)
ScotchGuy
10-29-2003, 06:50 AM
Incorrect grammar and spelling is a pet peeve of mine. If I were you I would definitely complain to the school district about the material being taught.
MagicNakor
10-29-2003, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by Spindulik@29 October 2003 - 07:30
...John sat down in the chair. And his mother baked cookies.

Since when is it acceptable to use a the word And to start a sentence? The word "and' is a conjunction.

Here's another example...

The suit needs cleaned.

Wrong! The suite need to be cleaned.

I know that they are not teaching the kid grammar yet, but I don't think it is a good idea to have them read books that cannot use proper grammar...
It's acceptable to start a sentence using "and." However, it's not often taught in schools because the students end up making sentence fragments.

It does seem as though the editor let some things slip through, which is fairly common.

If the suite needs to be cleaned, think about letting room service in. ;)

Some numbers have different variations. Other than 9 and 4, there's also 0, 1, and 7.

I honestly cannot remember what "version" of J and I was taught to me, and I don't have the workbooks anymore.

If John read 10 books, Cindi read 5.

:ninja:
Keikan
10-29-2003, 08:40 AM
The old numbers you can make a "69"
RGX
10-29-2003, 11:27 AM
I know, sme of the stuff kids come up with that they have been talk incorectly is really unbeleivable, im not exactly someone who fumes about bad grammar but if kids are growing up thinking this is normal what are they going to be like as adults?
Gemby!
10-29-2003, 11:48 AM
i am still at school and my grammar could be better - there are people who have worse grammar than me which may be because of those books !!
so i would complain !

i also think that numbers are better now than they were before because they are more simple to write but it also depends , some kids at school do still write like that - the teachers even write like that !

but my school is sorta crummy so... <_<
bigboab
10-29-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Spindulik@29 October 2003 - 06:30


[b][color=blue] John read 5 more books than Cindi.
Cindi read 13 books.
How many books did John read? ___________

If John read 10 books, how many books did Cindi read?

I think the logical answer would be 5. John reads 5 more books than Cindy.

In fact the whole thing is wrong. The wee buggers are not reading any books at all. That is one of the things that is wrong with todays education.
Snee
10-29-2003, 12:06 PM
:lol: @bigboab

It&#39;s weird, but I got taught the right-hand digits, but the left-hand letters (presumably they are the easiest ones for computers to scan), naturally I use the right-hand letters now, just to mess with the machine was my reason for starting with it. Before they started teaching it to me, my writing was "correct" according to their model (though my digits were the other way around). :D
Octopussy
10-29-2003, 12:19 PM
RAWR&#33; Spindulik I don&#39;t see what&#39;s so wrong about the 9 and J thing....That&#39;s what I&#39;m learning. You can see this pwnage grammar I have now...
blackhatknight
10-29-2003, 01:18 PM
I think it&#39;s a valid point that the 3 R&#39;s aren&#39;t as important however i would argue this is more to do with cultural change (we are moving into an era where expression and conveying of information are more important than content) though you could also argue you have to know the rules to break them
mc'Fist OOOH !!!
10-29-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Spindulik@29 October 2003 - 06:30
I may sound a bit too picky on these things, but I believe that it is very important to stress the little things such as this, in hopes that the next generation of people can communicate with eacher with clarity and minimal errors. Not like the K-Lite lounge where everyone uses the word noone, when they mean "no one", or your instead of you&#39;re.
I&#39;m lmfao @ you &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


Is that all you worry about ?



FFS &#33;&#33;&#33; AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


If I were you I would be worried about the homosexuals that are teachin her & her little classmates convincing them that certain mental illnessess are a socialy acceptable & desirable lifestyle & that natural behaviour is criminal ?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;


I would also be concerned about the t.v shows you let her watch & keep a carefull eye on the undertones within those shows which are all written by drug addled deviants who laff their ass&#39;s off at the way they controll & influence the thought process of children parented by idiots like you . :devil:
Skweeky
10-29-2003, 02:18 PM
You are saying homosexuality is a mental illness... <_<

Let me introduce myself

My name is Sonja, i&#39;m 20, bisexual and studying to be an english teacher. Do you have any problems with that?
thewizeard
10-29-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;@29 October 2003 - 14:06



FFS &#33;&#33;&#33; AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


If I were you I would be worried about the homosexuals that are teachin her & her little classmates convincing them that certain mental illnessess are a socialy acceptable & desirable lifestyle & that natural behaviour is criminal ?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;&nbsp; <_<



Grow up&#33;
mc'Fist OOOH !!!
10-29-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Skweeky@29 October 2003 - 14:18
You are saying homosexuality is a mental illness... <_<

Let me introduce myself

My name is Sonja, i&#39;m 20, bisexual and studying to be an english teacher. Do you have any problems with that?
Sup Sonja ,


Why would I have a problem with you or any illness you suffer from ?


Dont be stupid all yer life womin .


Know yer place .


Now go & make me a cup of tea & bring some chockey bickies .
thewizeard
10-29-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;+29 October 2003 - 14:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33; @ 29 October 2003 - 14:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Skweeky@29 October 2003 - 14:18
You are saying homosexuality is a mental illness... <_<

Let me introduce myself

My name is Sonja, i&#39;m 20, bisexual and studying to be an english teacher. Do you have any problems with that?
Sup Sonja ,


Why would I have a problem with you or any illness you suffer from ?


Dont be stupid all yer life womin .


Know yer place .


Now go & make me a cup of tea & bring some chockey bickies . [/b][/quote]
You better be careful about what you are saying mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;
mc'Fist OOOH !!!
10-29-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by nigel123+29 October 2003 - 14:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 29 October 2003 - 14:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;@29 October 2003 - 14:06



FFS &#33;&#33;&#33; AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


If I were you I would be worried about the homosexuals that are teachin her & her little classmates convincing them that certain mental illnessess are a socialy acceptable & desirable lifestyle & that natural behaviour is criminal ?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?&#33; <_<



Grow up&#33;[/b][/quote]
Spot the George Micheal Fan ^^^ :lol:
thewizeard
10-29-2003, 02:31 PM
I thought that you were projecting; so the answer is, yes I did.
Biggles
10-29-2003, 02:31 PM
Curious one

I agree, the question is ambigious. One could read it as maintaining the differential of 13/18 which gives an answer of 7 and 2/9ths. However, this might be considered a little hard for a primary two student. The question regarding grammar is interesting and explains much in relation to the contributions submitted by some of the younger members of this board. :rolleyes:

I would like to reassure BigBoab that kids do still read and that my 15 year old son has read Tolkein, Pratchett, Adams and numerous others. My 13 year old is addicted to writing and spends hours concocting weird Manga Fan Fiction which she posts on the net.
Skweeky
10-29-2003, 02:31 PM
lol, I&#39;m not falling for that one ;)
Biggles
10-29-2003, 03:11 PM
:rolleyes:

No, I told the truth.

I feel slightly sad that you consider your life so superior that my children are condemned out of hand, but as I can have no way of ascertaining the joys of your life I must take it at face value and assume that everything you have is wonderful. Enjoy, as they say.

As for me, well, by and large, I like my life and my children are the apples of both my eyes - yes I am that sad, but I am far too old to care whether I am cool or not.
mc'Fist OOOH !!!
10-29-2003, 03:16 PM
Chill out Wiggles &#33;


One mans pleasure is anothers poision .


If you want to raise stepford kids & are happy doin it , then who am I to question yer happyness?


I feel superiour to you not because of yer family , but because I am .


Simple as .

End of story .


Now go play yer violin elsewhere ya tear jerkin soppy shite &#33;&#33;


:devil:
Biggles
10-29-2003, 03:28 PM
:D

Why thank you. I shall indeed return to that which warms my heart most.

You are too kind - be careful, there will be those who think you are going soft.
thewizeard
10-29-2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;@29 October 2003 - 15:16
Chill out Wiggles &#33;


One mans pleasure is anothers poision .


If you want to raise stepford kids & are happy doin it , then who am I to question yer happyness?


I feel superiour to you not because of yer family , but because I am .


Simple as .

End of story .


Now go play yer violin elsewhere ya tear jerkin soppy shite &#33;&#33;


:devil:
I beg to disagree. You have an obvious inferiority-complex.
Sid Hartha
10-29-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;@29 October 2003 - 14:06
If I were you I would be worried about the homosexuals that are teachin her & her little classmates convincing them that certain mental illnessess are a socialy acceptable & desirable lifestyle & that natural behaviour is criminal ?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;
Do you worry about the homosexuals?

You poor, frightened little man.
RGX
10-29-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;@29 October 2003 - 16:16
Chill out Wiggles &#33;


One mans pleasure is anothers poision .


If you want to raise stepford kids & are happy doin it , then who am I to question yer happyness?


I feel superiour to you not because of yer family , but because I am .


Simple as .

End of story .


Now go play yer violin elsewhere ya tear jerkin soppy shite &#33;&#33;


:devil:
I doubt you&#39;ll find much companionship here, we tend to be a very open minded forum which accepts all forms of sexuality and race
Yogi
10-29-2003, 05:25 PM
mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;

Should be pittied.

Ignore him.

He needs counceling.


<_< Yogi
masta.z
10-29-2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;+29 October 2003 - 15:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33; @ 29 October 2003 - 15:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by nigel123@29 October 2003 - 14:23
<!--QuoteBegin-mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33;@29 October 2003 - 14:06



FFS &#33;&#33;&#33; AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


If I were you I would be worried about the homosexuals that are teachin her & her little classmates convincing them that certain mental illnessess are a socialy acceptable & desirable lifestyle & that natural behaviour is criminal ?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?&#33; <_<



Grow up&#33;
Spot the George Micheal Fan ^^^ :lol: [/b][/quote]
/me wonders what&#39;s wrong with george michael.....

oh and i read alot but am still at school... so :P
oldmancan
10-29-2003, 06:18 PM
@Spindulik Your daughter is in grade two? I thought you were in grade 9 yourself? J/K. The editing of the school text was terrible, no doubt about. The math question is very poorly written. The second question is very dubious because it has no qualifier, (relation to anything). One may assume that the statement "John read 5 more books than Cindi." is still true, but it is not made clear. Sanserif, again I think your right. Watchout for the next wave, when text messaging hits mainstream communication.

@MagicNakor And in some instances it may be correct to begin a sentence with "and". But I think your suit needs cleaning.

@Biggles RO, right on.

@ SensualGardening Your right, thanks for reminding me.

@mc&#39;fist oooh&#33; > yourself&#33;

@Skweeky We All Luv Ya, just the way you are> happy&#33;&#33;
Spindulik
10-29-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Octopussy@29 October 2003 - 08:19
RAWR&#33; Spindulik I don&#39;t see what&#39;s so wrong about the 9 and J thing....That&#39;s what I&#39;m learning. You can see this pwnage grammar I have now...
Like I said, I may appear a bit picky, but one of my college courses was 4 months training in fonts. I memorized dozens of fonts. The "DO&#39;s and DONTs", and so forth. One of my exams was a calligraphy test, where I had to do the entire alphabet by hand, without error. There were several alphabets and fonts involved in these tests. There is also terminology for different parts of a letter or number.


The FOUR and NINE are inncorect, because it is too expensive to make a 99 cent calculator or watch display the correct numeral. These new expensive cell phones will not display the incorrect 4 and 9.

Today, there is a tremendous amount of new fonts on the interent for the PC. Many are homemade and violate some of the "rules", but that is accepted since some of these custom fonts are artistic.

If you post a homemade sign in your front lawn, it will look "homemade" if you use nonstandard fonts.
Gemby!
10-29-2003, 10:06 PM
mc&#39;Fist OOOH &#33;&#33;&#33; was probably brought up thinking that gay people are bad and that its sinful and also that a womens place is in the home

its not his fault

lets blame the parents that brainwashed his mind into thinking such things

nah on second thoughts lets just blame the lil shite &#33;
Wednesday
10-29-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Biggles@29 October 2003 - 14:31
Curious one

I agree, the question is ambigious. One could read it as maintaining the differential of 13/18 which gives an answer of 7 and 2/9ths. However, this might be considered a little hard for a primary two student. The question regarding grammar is interesting and explains much in relation to the contributions submitted by some of the younger members of this board. :rolleyes:

I would like to reassure BigBoab that kids do still read and that my 15 year old son has read Tolkein, Pratchett, Adams and numerous others. My 13 year old is addicted to writing and spends hours concocting weird Manga Fan Fiction which she posts on the net.
yes I agree 10 divided by eighteen multiplied by thirteen.
bigboab
10-29-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Wednesday+29 October 2003 - 22:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wednesday @ 29 October 2003 - 22:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Biggles@29 October 2003 - 14:31
Curious one

I agree, the question is ambigious. One could read it as maintaining the differential of 13/18 which gives an answer of 7 and 2/9ths. However, this might be considered a little hard for a primary two student. The question regarding grammar is interesting and explains much in relation to the contributions submitted by some of the younger members of this board.&nbsp; :rolleyes:

I would like to reassure BigBoab that kids do still read and that my 15 year old son has read Tolkein, Pratchett, Adams and numerous others. My 13 year old is addicted to writing and spends hours concocting weird Manga Fan Fiction which she posts on the net.
yes I agree 10 divided by eighteen multiplied by thirteen. [/b][/quote]
I will inform both of you about the dates of the resits. :lol:
Biggles
10-29-2003, 10:49 PM
:o

Primary 2 have re-sits&#33;&#33;&#33; Wow, I thought things had got easier :rolleyes:
bigboab
10-29-2003, 10:54 PM
The way this board has been going over the last few weeks, it is restarts we need. :P
hobbes
10-29-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Biggles@29 October 2003 - 16:11
:rolleyes:

No, I told the truth.

I feel slightly sad that you consider your life so superior that my children are condemned out of hand, but as I can have no way of ascertaining the joys of your life I must take it at face value and assume that everything you have is wonderful. Enjoy, as they say.

As for me, well, by and large, I like my life and my children are the apples of both my eyes - yes I am that sad, but I am far too old to care whether I am cool or not.
Holy crap, Biggles bristled&#33; I never knew he had human emotion in there.

The way I read it, it seems that he felt that Sweeky&#39;s post was in regard to his and he took slight umbrage, he did.

Good on you Biggles. Before long you&#39;ll be calling us all the m*th#r fu*#ers, that we are. The gloves are off and Biggles is coming out swinging.

Funny how we can all shrug off insults to ourselves, but mess with our children, watch out&#33;.
Gemby!
10-30-2003, 12:01 AM
By the way just so you know - its better for you to be a caring parent who worries about their child then someone who doesn&#39;t give 2 shits &#33;
hobbes
10-30-2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by gemby&#33;@30 October 2003 - 01:01
By the way just so you know - its better for you to be a caring parent who worries about their child then someone who doesn&#39;t give 2 shits &#33;
It was a joke Gemby. Biggles has a reputation of totally ignoring all flaming and bickering, as he calmly drops his thoughtful responses into the middle of a hurricaine (usually between PJaul and Dilly Bean).

This is the first time I have ever seen him "react". We have located a chink in his otherwise imperturbable armor.
hobbes
10-30-2003, 12:12 AM
Gads, a double post. I seem to be coming unraveled.
Gemby!
10-30-2003, 12:14 AM
i was reading back about someone saying they were an over caring parent or something

thats sorta what i was replying to :P
Smith
10-30-2003, 02:19 AM
dudes and dudets. i just started high school a while ago. i can tell you. stuff that i learned in grade 7 i should be learning now.

as for bad grammer its called "slang" :o . us kids today use "slang" because were 2 lazy 2 say the full word :lol:
Biggles
10-30-2003, 05:47 PM
:o

Hobbes

You are right, I was a little perturbed at the venom in the response to what I thought was nothing more than a throw away line to BigBoab.

My reaction now looks somewhat isolated as the original comment by Mr. Fist has completely vanished. :blink:

Oh well - back to sorting out the ills of the world and thank you to those who did not deem me (entirely) barking mad.
Gemby!
10-30-2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by TheCanuk@30 October 2003 - 02:19
dudes and dudets. i just started high school a while ago. i can tell you. stuff that i learned in grade 7 i should be learning now.

as for bad grammer its called "slang" :o . us kids today use "slang" because were 2 lazy 2 say the full word :lol:
ok my grade 7 is the beginning of high school

so im real confused here
thewizeard
10-30-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@29 October 2003 - 23:55

Funny how we can all shrug off insults to ourselves, but mess with our children, watch out&#33;.
Same with me Hobbes. I can put up with a lot, but "they" better keep their hands off of our children&#33;

I felt saddened by that post yesterday, I am sure I was not alone.

Biggles, your children are very fortunate indeed to have you as their father.
bigboab
10-30-2003, 06:46 PM
I would like to go back to the start of the thread, if I may. If the person who worded these questions had used proper English, then there would have been no dubiety. The more students read books that are written in proper English, the more they develop the art of writing in proper English.

Unfortunately books are very similar to art, in the fact that books become &#39;IN&#39; whether their writers are capable of writing or not. My house is crammed with books on every topic imaginable. This was available to me and my children. If I did not know the answer to a question then the answer, more times than not, was in the house.

I started of at school with the children&#39;s classics, Dickens, Stevenson etc. As I progressed I moved on to the &#39;heavier&#39; stuff like &#39;The Seven Pillars of Wisdom&#39;, &#39;Ulysses&#39; , &#39;Decline an Fall&#39; and &#39;Crime and Punishment&#39; by that computer writer. ( DOS-TOY-F-KEY :rolleyes: ) Sorry could not resist that. I found that the further up the ladder that you went the harder it was to understand what the author was trying to say. My personal opinion was that if you don’t understand what a book is about then that book has not been written properly. My quick critical analysis of a couple:

Seven Pillars of Wisdom: An early travel guide to the Middle East.

Ulysses: An inventory of everyday items in the turn of the century Dublin.

I will get flamed for that probably. To continue, when my children went through the same process, their teacher&#39;s choice of literature was off putting to say the least. The prime example being &#39;Death of a Salesman&#39; (Do I hear groans? :( ). If you try and teach pupils this type of material they quickly lose interest.

I think I have strayed slightly. What I am trying to say is, if you don’t understand a book don’t read it. Especially ones that are not written, using proper English. (Wot I use B) ) That way, maybe writers will start writing understandable material. Before the flaming starts, I will say that there were badly written books in my day. Not quite as many as today though.

I have not yet mentioned the fact that my wife and children come first in all this. (Although one of them is limited to Mills and Boon :lol: ). Shoulder to shoulder Biggles&#33;