[Poll]BitTorrentTrackers Staffers to be paid or not to be paid ?

[eldiesel]

Yes .Why ?
No .Why ?
List your thoughts and what will be the impact of paying staffers on the torrent communities .In my opinion being staff in a major tracker with thousands of members takes a lot of time and needs special set of skills so in someway staffing can be defined as a job . This idea came to my mind after what happened with SCT and PTP founders as they both stole the donation money so I looked into that from another way which is building a strong and a secure torrent website consumes a lot of time , effort , technical and non technical skills , so these guys deserved something in return ( not saying that I agree with building a site to steal donations and run away ) but suggesting that donations system should be changed to let members know that If they pay 10$ 4% of them will go as a salary for staffers and in return members should expect a high class level of staffers who can keep the community tight and come up with new creative ideas .
Let the debate begin.

PS : I am not a part of staff of any existing torrent tracker , though I was once a year ago .

[anon]

Some staffers are already accused of using donations for their own purposes without this "system". You can imagine the amount of negative feedback should this be implemented on almost any site.

[n00bz0r]

Salary for staffers? :dabs:
Last time I checked, people (who eventually become staffers) get involved with sites coz they enjoy interacting (and helping peeps along the way) while feeding their piracy needs and taking time off their busy (or not?) RLs.

Being paid for a job facilitating piracy of copy righted material and eventually profiting from piracy is absurd. It'll create more problems than it'll solve. so, 'nuf said.

Hope common sense continues to prevail, for its an entity which is getting rarer by the day..

[IdolEyes787]

http://www.collectiveroots.org/files/u3/can_of_worms.jpg

First you have to implement a structured pay hierarchy at a tracker.Lots of luck with that ."Hey how come Johnny gets more than I do just because he's x position when I do more work?" This isn't Dow chemical .You are basically dealing with kids here .Kids who btw haven't by their very involvement in such illegal activities probably don't have a clear concept of what is just or fair.
Then you are going to have to set what the ( donation) market will tolerate which most places is apparently next to zero anyway.
Then you are going to have to try to convince members why they suddenly need to pony up more money given that everyone involve managed to do the job perfectly well before without any remuneration.
I sympathize with staff as it no doubt can be at times a very difficult and time-consuming proposition but let's get serious here.

[ca_aok]

Some staffers are already accused of using donations for their own purposes without this "system". You can imagine the amount of negative feedback should this be implemented on almost any site.
Well in this system it'd be transparent at least. If I knew staff were being paid from my money, I'd still have the option of donating (or not). The difference is I'd know up front that not all of my money was going towards the site.

I think it'd be a terrible idea to accept payment as a staff member. Any leeway you'd have if you were ever taken to court would evaporate if you were seen as profiting off piracy.

[Rart]

While I most certainly think that certain staff, considering the amount of time they into the site (especially coders/IRC support), would deserve some sort of compensation (perhaps a la not-for-profit, just enough to cover the expenses of operation, in this case, the hours they spent) in reality it is simply impossible.

In an already sticky legal situation, lawyers and such will cling to anything they can find, no matter how small, in order to shut down a site and put one under bars. This is just one other thing (and in this case, it really isn't that small of an issue) that lawyers will use against you to better their case. It simply isn't feasible.

[Night0wl]

No



Being paid for a job facilitating piracy of copy righted material and eventually profiting from piracy is absurd. It'll create more problems than it'll solve. so, 'nuf said.

and



I think it'd be a terrible idea to accept payment as a staff member. Any leeway you'd have if you were ever taken to court would evaporate if you were seen as profiting off piracy.

[sez]

In order to address this topic thoroughly I think we need to start from the beginning.
To y'all who've been around long enough,when and from whom did you first hear of trackers/staffers selling leech slots and which trackers were doing it to be precise?

[Cabalo]

I would agree on that if we also started getting paid at FST, for dealing with pricks who think they are elite.

[deadalive1]

Salary for staffers? :dabs:
Last time I checked, people (who eventually become staffers) get involved with sites coz they enjoy interacting (and helping peeps along the way) while feeding their piracy needs and taking time off their busy (or not?) RLs.

Being paid for a job facilitating piracy of copy righted material and eventually profiting from piracy is absurd. It'll create more problems than it'll solve. so, 'nuf said.

Hope common sense continues to prevail, for its an entity which is getting rarer by the day..
Well said, absolutely agree.

[Cabalo]

Btw, I obviously think they shouldn't get paid. Most don't even need to, as they are too young to have accounts or spend their money either in booze or hookers.

[Nemrod]

let's get serious here.


I agree.

[puckface]

I think they should do whatever the fuck they want, if the site owners sees fit, go for it.

I mean I get paid for my job... which is a fucking crime cause its wayyy to enjoyable, so why not them.

[Overmaster]

Being paid for a job facilitating piracy of copy righted material and eventually profiting from piracy is absurd.

Torrent Trackers like Isohunt make profit. Therefore, whether staffers get paid or not, 'facilitating piracy of copy righted material' is already something that people get profited for.




It'll create more problems than it'll solve. so, 'nuf said.

Torrent Trackers like Isohunt are completely legal at the same time. This means that the only problems it'd create are merely complaints by people like you. Also, these 'problems' still don't depend on whether or not the staffers get payed.




I think it'd be a terrible idea to accept payment as a staff member. Any leeway you'd have if you were ever taken to court would evaporate if you were seen as profiting off piracy.
This is not a reason why staffers shouldn't be allowed to get paid, but rather some kind of advice towards staffers. Not really an argument.

[megabyteme]

There are some truly great staff in the community whom I would be very pleased to see get compensated for their time and efforts, however; the truly great ones aren't doing what they do for money.

It's kinda like politicians- anyone who seeks power and money isn't fit to serve.

[P2PDog]

There are some truly great staff in the community whom I would be very pleased to see get compensated for their time and efforts, however; the truly great ones aren't doing what they do for money.

It's kinda like politicians- anyone who seeks power and money isn't fit to serve.

Nicely put!

[megabyteme]

There are some truly great staff in the community whom I would be very pleased to see get compensated for their time and efforts, however; the truly great ones aren't doing what they do for money.

It's kinda like politicians- anyone who seeks power and money isn't fit to serve.

Nicely put!

Thanks, but I should give Aristotle most of the credit. :)

http://www.iep.utm.edu/aris-pol/

[dvdasacd]

Money should be as far removed from acts of piracy as possible.

Piracy should remain within the realm of 'hobby', ALWAYS.

And ya know, sometimes hobbies cost money ;). Ever thought of it that way?

If anything, staffers should be content with sometimes shelling out some money for doing what they do, if it's necessary and if they are capable of affording it.

[eldiesel]

There are already sites that are making profit and we don't know about them except when they decide to close the site and run away so If there exists a transparent system that tells the people if the donation bar goes above 100% the rest of money will be go to the staffers for their dedication , everyone will be happy .

[TONiC]

[QUOTE=dvdasacd;3454529]Money should be as far removed from acts of piracy as possible./QUOTE]

I think so too but sadly it's not :(. If it's not admins asking for a little extra each month, it's crooked FTP sysops selling leech on the side. Worst news to my ears was how groups like ORC buy cams for $500+... Money is unfortunately fueling piracy.

[MiNiMAL]

Yes .
Why ? Why NO.

[Sonnentier]

If it was a job they should be more polite to the user. Today, for the most part they are even already.

[chrisbeebops]

Money should be as far removed from acts of piracy as possible.If you look at the Allan Ellis case, one of the main reasons he got off is because he was accused of making a profit from Oink, but when looked into further, it was clear he did not.

[BobFromAccounting]

The only time I would see any sort of compensation as justified would be paying coders. There's a number of site coders out there that put a lot of time and effort into what they're doing and I'd have no problem with them being rewarded for the work they've done. There's a number of them that work in that field daily / as a career, so it's almost like they are losing money from the time they spend on some of these trackers.

I do not think paying regular staff would be justified. Ultimately it's a volunteer job, and there are lines of kiddies willing to take your spot for free if you don't wish to be staff anymore. You could argue that the coding is volunteer as well, and it is, but I think it would be more deserving of financial compensation than anything else, but even then I'm not overly supportive of it.

[The_Martinator]

If they get paid, then eldiesel should get a percentage of what they get. After all, he started all of it. :lol:

On a serious note, my answer is no. Running a site isn't supposed to be a full time job. If you don't have enough spare time, then don't do it. We see staffers stepping down because of lack of time all the time, yet sites still don't cease to exist.

+1 to n00bz0r and MBM also.

[cinephilia]

i'm with Karid on this one.

[Cabalo]

One question to you all: Have you ever seen any sysop posting a screenie of the webhoster's bill saying: this is the exact amount we need? Or you all just take his word for it because he is a sysop and there's no way he could be a liar ?

[X-Files]

VIP and above can see this on forum

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2382/76004545.jpg

[TONiC]

That's good that FunFile do that - I remember when their old admin/sysop was in charge (have forgotten his name) but essentially begged for money each month... then there was the whole CDN fiasco with them too. BT sites need to be held accountable.

[BobFromAccounting]

One question to you all: Have you ever seen any sysop posting a screenie of the webhoster's bill saying: this is the exact amount we need? Or you all just take his word for it because he is a sysop and there's no way he could be a liar ?

I think you could also couple this with whether or not a site's donation bar has the amount they require / are aiming for. I tend to find sites that don't really make their 'operating cost' known a lot sketchier than those who provide amounts in terms of valid donation use. Obviously this number might not be legit, but you can still decide whether or not it's ridiculous. Posting a screenshot is somewhat unusual, but there are places that make their goals known via numbers / will justify them if you ask nicely.

[dvdasacd]

Money should be as far removed from acts of piracy as possible.If you look at the Allan Ellis case, one of the main reasons he got off is because he was accused of making a profit from Oink, but when looked into further, it was clear he did not.
This is just a general statement. If it's a large site, you have no choice but to often be sitting with large sums of money, and even if it's a smaller site, sometimes you might have built-up spare funds for upgrades and so forth, but the less money the better, just on common sense grounds. I say, if you can avoid it, it's good, because it can only help in legal situations. But if you've done nothing wrong (in terms of raking in money), and the court does a fair inquiry of it, then yes, you're fine even if youre dealing with huge sums of money...such as alan ellis.

The other reason for me is just that money corrupts, and the less of it around the better (this is a very broad statement and not inferring anything like 'i wouldn't even trust myself'...lol). For me it's like something a site owner has no choice but to deal with, a necessary evil and a dirty part of the job. I'd rather that nothing cost anything and thus no money had to be handled.

[1000possibleclaws]

I think a salary would be really questionable, and I doubt any of them would want that anyways due to legal complications. Regarding selling upload for money and keeping extra donations for themselves, I don't have a problem with that.

If the site is good, I'll use it regardless. I'm not some sucker that is gonna donate to every site just for the hell of it though, and if I was one of those people I might feel different.

[eldiesel]

Respect to funfile , other trackers should do the same .

[zerulez]

My answer is no.


Money should be as far removed from acts of piracy as possible.

Piracy should remain within the realm of 'hobby', ALWAYS.

And ya know, sometimes hobbies cost money ;). Ever thought of it that way?

Totally agree with this.

[DWCreeper167]

I think they should, depending on the tracker, size, content and work required on a day to day basis.

And yes, there would have to be different pay rates for the amount done by individual staffers. A place I use to staff at for example, a few us spent damn near every waking hour working on somethings while others would only show up for a few minutes at a time to flaunt their so-called authority on the poor members.

It really is a job, just without pay. You have deadlines, irate "customers" and some of the same stress you get from a normal 9-5 job and in the end, you're not compensated at all. Most of the time you don't even get a thank you from members.

Do I think a tracker should only be in it for the money? No, of course not but a few do exactly that and the owner is the only one profiting from it while other staff work for nothing.

Not to mention when you retire or quit or whatever, it's not like you can use it as a reference.

[Slickerey]

If they were to be paid, all hell would break lose.

It is unfair to all those who have retired and stepped down from staffing teams as well. When somebody staffs at a tracker, they should do it because they're willing to contribute their time to a place they love and download from, not because they expect to be rewarded in cash.

[buggyfresh]

No.

[sear]

Fuck no ... staffing is a hobby just like torrenting you do it for the love of the site and the lolz with other staffers and members. If it gets too much step down or become inactive for a while. Getting paid for torrenting is evil shit ... it pretty much makes everything the MPAA/RIAA says true. Which is why p2l and p2i is horrible as well.

Sites that make money that isn't used for the betterment of the tracker don't deserve your patronage. Remember it's the members that make the site not the staff. Yes staff work hard but they do it for the <3 in their spare time.

Besides as truesounds pointed out the higher you go on the staff ladder the riskier it becomes IRL taking money for it would be madness as far as I'm concerned. That's when it turns from a civil case into a criminal conviction.

[Disme]

No.
I agree 100% with Sear (and many others that voted NO) on this one.

Besides, I believe there is already a lot of ass-kissing, backstabbing, lying and dishonesty amongst a lot of tracker-members to try and get hold of a staff-position, without money being involved.

I can only imagine what will happen when $$$ are involved. Some people would literally 'kill' for a staff-position.

[DWCreeper167]

Besides, I believe there is already a lot of ass-kissing, backstabbing, lying and dishonesty amongst a lot of tracker-members to try and get hold of a staff-position, without money being involved.


I agree that there is a LOT of ass-kissing going on but that is why I agree that some trackers, some positions, some people SHOULD be getting paid. I don't agree it should be something that is advertised but some trackers already pay external coders on occasion. Take a look at some trackers where you see 20-30 staff yet only 3-4 do any work there whether it be coding, forums or helping in IRC. Also, power hungry newbs with attitude would less likely to be promoted and put in a position where they can flaunt that power and make members life a living hell.

IF there was a cash incentive on occasion, there would be alot less USELESS staff hanging aroung. At least in theory anyway.

Let's have a look at a few places like IPT and TL for example. Let's face it, they are raking in the money like there's no tommorow. How many of their staff do you see active? It's obvious that the owner/sysop is making a bit of money while you have tons and tons of mods and what not that do nothing and are never seen. IF a few of those staff that bust their ass(if they exist) were to get rewarded in any way, the site and activity and in turn the quality of the site would get better.

I'm not going to argue this too much more because there are valid points on both sides.

[eldiesel]

Maybe I mistyped my point , My point is the current system isn't fair because some staffers do deserve money , On the other hand some people are paying money excepting that their money is to keep their favorite site alive while the money goes to the pocket of sysop ( like SCT , TL and pham and others ..) alone while others are doing hard work too and they do deserve getting paid for being helpful and spending so much time to deliver you the best content .
So yep a salary is a bad idea but what's happening now is even worse and who knows who is going to run away with money next ?!

[THOMAS123]

cheers mate

[n00bz0r]

cheers mate

Atta boy!
Thats the way to bump a thread!

[anon]

3+ years have passed since he registered, and it still looks like he has nothing useful to say. :unsure:

[A]

3+ years have passed since he registered, and it still looks like he has nothing useful to say. :unsure:
He is out of hibernation.Just you wait,FST is going to witness the birth of a real prodigy.

[IdolEyes787]

They should be paid but only if they report the income on their tax return.

[Stabber]

They should be paid if they have a degree on p2p filesharing or if their ancestors were pirates

[RussianNinja]

Pay for it! Than let me get a job too... Profession: staff

[RussianNinja]

3+ years have passed since he registered, and it still looks like he has nothing useful to say. :unsure:
he is out of hibernation.just you wait,fst is going to witness the birth of a real prodigy.

lol

[n00bz0r]

he is out of hibernation.just you wait,fst is going to witness the birth of a real prodigy.

lol
:dabs: